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Southwest Declares Kevin Smith Too Fat To Fly
theodp writes "Kevin Smith is not a happy Southwest customer. The director was thrown off a flight from Oakland to Burbank, after being deemed too fat to fly. He later wound up on another Southwest flight, but has declared It's On and taken his rants to Twitter. 'Dear @SouthwestAir — I know I'm fat, but was Captain Leysath really justified in throwing me off a flight for which I was already seated?' he began. He also let the airline know he'd made it to his destination. 'Hey @SouthwestAir! I've landed in Burbank. Don't worry: wall of the plane was opened & I was airlifted out while Richard Simmons supervised.'"
Do you even know who this guy is? He isn't THAT big.
I've read the tweets all night from @thatkevinsmith - He'll be getting a call at home from our Customer Relations VP tonight.
So why is this posted as a story on /.?
There is very little future in being right when your boss is wrong.
http://www.macworld.com/article/146331/2010/02/kevinsmith.html
According to http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html
It sounds like the determination is made if you can not fit within the confines of a standard seat with the arm rests down on both sides. I wonder if they don't have a test airplane seat you can sit in before hand at the terminal before trying to board or set of measurements you can take at home before buying your ticket/boarding to reduce the potential for embarrassment of being forced off the plane once you try to seat onboard.
From the link above:
"I am a large person and use a seatbelt extension, but I fit in one aircraft seat. Do I have to purchase two seats? Our policy does not focus on weight, and the seatbelt extension is not the determining factor. We use the ability to lower the armrests as the gauge, as the armrests are truly the definitive boundary between each seat."
Another interesting tidibt from the link:
Are all overweight people subject to the policy?
Many Americans are "overweight" or "clinically obese." A number of overweight or obese people occupy only one seat. In fact, many Customers may use a seatbelt extension but occupy only one seat, and these Customers would not be asked to reserve a second seat. If a Customer cannot lower the armrest (and is unable to comfortably travel with it in the down position), he/she is required to pay for the additional seat occupied. Again, we will offer a refund if the flight does not oversell.
.... ... }
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Perhaps.
Here's their blog response: http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/not-so-silent-bob
Well, as recently as 16 months ago he was highly concerned over his weight. I don't know how recent these pictures are, but airline seats are somewhat narrow and it would not surprise me if his girth extended into an extra seat. If this was some schmuck off the street nobody would be talking about it, but because we feel some kind of connection to him everyone is up in arms. Obviously the airline definitely handled it in the wrong way, but he still is a fat fuck.
I wish I could mod you up. I was squished against a window by some fat guy on my way into Dallas on southwest, and of course it had all kinds of storm delays. The guy was sweaty, smelly, and not at all concerned about suffocating me. I could have only wished the guy was as fat as Smith. This guy barely fit in his seat belt with an extra seat belt to extend it.
Did blogsouthwest just get slashdotted?
http://imgur.com/UfBNC.jpg has GOT to be pretty close, he is wearing the same sweater on the plane in question as in that talk.
He is AT LEAST 325, if not over 350 lbs. Look up some recent pictures of him. At least a size 48 pants.
While I shall assume you are attempting to be humorous, the parlance of the English language allows the use of "their" for the singular gender-neutral possessive.
You can't have it both ways. If you're going to charge the fat folks extra, you gotta give the rest of us the price break on kids' tickets.
It's simple: Airlines don't sell distance per gas consumed. They sell seats. People are not packages. You can't fly more of them in a plane if they weight less in a linear manner. One seat is the minimum allocation unit you can buy. Whether you use the whole seat just put your purse on it is not their business. You're paying for it if you're going to use it. If you're so fat that you cannot fit into the single smallest allocation unit they provide, you will have to purchase two of them (or upgrade to a higher class with bigger seats).
I think he's closer to 350. He even says about himself in an interview:
"I'm really, really fat right now. Fattest I've ever been. I broke a toilet. That's how heavy I am. I can't take all the credit — that was an old toilet and a very waterlogged wall — but my size took that toilet down."
Apparently (does anyone RTFA!?) he usually buys two seats when flying SWA, anyway - so he admits it's a problem. In this case he tried to take an earlier flight standby, and they didn't have two seats available. So SWA put him on the next flight that did. I don't see the problem...
Here's the text:
Not So Silent Bob
Sun, 02/14/2010 - 14:57 — Christi Day
Many of you reached out to us via Twitter last night and today regarding a situation a Customer Twittered about that occurred on a Southwest flight. It is not our customary method of Customer Relations to be so public in how we work through these situations, but with so many people involved in the occurrence, you also should be involved in the solution. First and foremost, to Mr. Smith; we would like to echo our Tweets and again offer our heartfelt apologies to you. We are sincerely sorry for your travel experience on Southwest Airlines.
As soon as we saw the first Tweet from Mr. Smith, we contacted him personally to apologize for his experience and to address his concerns on both Twitter and with a personal phone call. Since the situation has received a lot of public attention, we'd like to take the opportunity to address a few of the specifics here as well.
Mr. Smith originally purchased two Southwest seats on a flight from Oakland to Burbank – as he’s been known to do when traveling on Southwest. He decided to change his plans and board an earlier flight to Burbank, which technically means flying standby. As you may know, airlines are not able to clear standby passengers until all Customers are boarded. When the time came to board Mr. Smith, we had only a single seat available for him to occupy. Our pilots are responsible for the Safety and comfort of all Customers on the aircraft and therefore, made the determination that Mr. Smith needed more than one seat to complete his flight. Our Employees explained why the decision was made, accommodated Mr. Smith on a later flight, and issued him a $100 Southwest travel voucher for his inconvenience.
You've read about these situations before. Southwest instituted our Customer of Size policy more than 25 years ago. The policy requires passengers that can not fit safely and comfortably in one seat to purchase an additional seat while traveling. This policy is not unique to Southwest Airlines and it is not a revenue generator. Most, if not all, carriers have similar policies, but unique to Southwest is the refunding of the second seat purchased (if the flight does not oversell) which is greater than any revenue made (full policy can be found here). The spirit of this policy is based solely on Customer comfort and Safety. As a Company committed to serving our Customers in Safety and comfort, we feel the definitive boundary between seats is the armrest. If a Customer cannot comfortably lower the armrest and infringes on a portion of another seat, a Customer seated adjacent would be very uncomfortable and a timely exit from the aircraft in the event of an emergency might be compromised if we allow a cramped, restricted seating arrangement.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
some people just have big bones.
And then some people are just fat.
The terms don't exactly look secret. From: http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html
The armrest is the definitive gauge for a Customer of size. It serves as the boundary between seats and measures 17 inches in width. Customers who are unable to lower both armrests and/or who compromise any portion of adjacent seating should proactively book the number of seats needed prior to travel.
In fact that looks pretty darn simple and straightforward (and fair) - if you fit in the seat (that's the bit between the armrests) then sit in it, otherwise buy more than one seat.
It'll still be a lot cheaper for fat people than tall people who have to pay for business class (ain't no special offers for upgrades if you're too tall to fit your knees behind the cattle class seat, I've tried). Furthermore, fat people can lose weight, tall people are stuck being tall.
Most air freight shippers use dimensional weight to charge extra on high volume/low mass items. Charging by weight alone won't recover the costs of shipping lightweight items. For example, a pound of popped popcorn will cost more to ship than a pound of popcorn kernels.
Typically, a shipper assumes that typical freight has a nominal density of about 0.2 gm/cm^3 ... packages with a lower density than this will be charged more.
Of course, humans have a density of about 1gm/cm^3, so we wouldn't be charged extra, should we decide to be shipped airfreight.
He normally buys double seats due to his width.
This time he was on standby and there was no double seat for him. To prevent the person next to him from suffering the overflow they made him take the next flight and gave him $100 for his trouble.
He knew the rules, this just makes a whining, self-entitled asshole.
No sig today...
Here's the interesting thing larger (tall, obese or both) flyers AND the airlines should be aware of. Numerous airplanes (except the small ones) have varying sized seats (even in coach) - just like many movie theaters. Simply accomodating a larger passenger by placing them in a larger seat seems to be a viable method of ensuring people's comfort.
I've flown on flights with very very tall people, who erroneously booked a seat under the baggage rack next to the window (DUH!), and the stewardess has moved them to a more comfortable seat without having been asked. I've also seen them move wider customers to wider seats.
Yeah, not all planes are configured in that fashion... but both (a) care should be taken by the customer to choose the correct seats (WHEN available) and by the airline in making the availability of such seats known (though I guess that could be a problem when thin customers who simply want a lot of room grab those seats for themselves).
StarTrekPhase2 - The Five Year Mission Continues!
And the women who wear way too much perfume or hairspray and make my eyes water the entire trip.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Many of you reached out to us via Twitter last night and today regarding a situation a Customer Twittered about that occurred on a Southwest flight. It is not our customary method of Customer Relations to be so public in how we work through these situations, but with so many people involved in the occurrence, you also should be involved in the solution. First and foremost, to Mr. Smith; we would like to echo our Tweets and again offer our heartfelt apologies to you. We are sincerely sorry for your travel experience on Southwest Airlines.
As soon as we saw the first Tweet from Mr. Smith, we contacted him personally to apologize for his experience and to address his concerns on both Twitter and with a personal phone call. Since the situation has received a lot of public attention, we'd like to take the opportunity to address a few of the specifics here as well. Mr. Smith originally purchased two Southwest seats on a flight from Oakland to Burbank - as he's been known to do when traveling on Southwest. He decided to change his plans and board an earlier flight to Burbank, which technically means flying standby. As you may know, airlines are not able to clear standby passengers until all Customers are boarded. When the time came to board Mr. Smith, we had only a single seat available for him to occupy. Our pilots are responsible for the Safety and comfort of all Customers on the aircraft and therefore, made the determination that Mr. Smith needed more than one seat to complete his flight. Our Employees explained why the decision was made, accommodated Mr. Smith on a later flight, and issued him a $100 Southwest travel voucher for his inconvenience.
You've read about these situations before. Southwest instituted our Customer of Size policy more than 25 years ago. The policy requires passengers that can not fit safely and comfortably in one seat to purchase an additional seat while traveling. This policy is not unique to Southwest Airlines and it is not a revenue generator. Most, if not all, carriers have similar policies, but unique to Southwest is the refunding of the second seat purchased (if the flight does not oversell) which is greater than any revenue made (full policy can be found here). The spirit of this policy is based solely on Customer comfort and Safety. As a Company committed to serving our Customers in Safety and comfort, we feel the definitive boundary between seats is the armrest. If a Customer cannot comfortably lower the armrest and infringes on a portion of another seat, a Customer seated adjacent would be very uncomfortable and a timely exit from the aircraft in the event of an emergency might be compromised if we allow a cramped, restricted seating arrangement.
I realize I'm posting late to a popular thread, but there's an issue I'd like to address here. I see a lot of comments saying essentially "fatties are that way because they choose to be". Aside from the fact that "fatties" is a perfect example of the fact that obese people are the only remaining demographic of which it's perfectly acceptable to abuse, obesity is not always a choice.
Let me state that another way for the thinking-impaired: I don't choose to be fat, but I am. And there ain't jack I can do about it, short of expensive cosmetic surgery.
OK, you're asking "How, fatass, can you be fat? Surely exercise and diet can overcome these things?"
There is a condition known as "hypothyroidism". There are many causes; in my case it was an auto-immune disease known as "Grave's Disease". It caused my body to attack my own thyroid gland - a gland in the neck that secretes thyroid hormone, which controls most of a person's metabolism. The reaction from the thyroid is to over-produce thyroid hormone, sending your metabolism into overdrive. When I was first diagnosed, I was recently out of the Army, and had been very fit, about 185lbs of muscle (on a 5'8" frame). I went to my doctor because I lost 30 lbs - down to 155lbs - and my resting heart rate had skyrocketed to 120beats per minute. They tested me, and told me that if it wasn't corrected, I would have an extremely elevated risk for heart failure. The treatment is to take a simple, $12,000 pill made of radioactive iodine. The thyroid converts iodine into thyroid hormone, so the vast majority of iodine in your diet is drawn to the thyroid. The radiation then kills off a portion of your thyroid. There is also a surgery, but since the thyroid is wrapped around the nerves controlling your vocal cords, and the slightest nick can paralyze them - so it's not done much anymore.
The problem with this treatment is that they cannot get the "dosage" of the radioactive iodine exactly correct. In most cases, they over-compensate, and kill off too much thyroid. This happened to me. My metabolism slowed to a crawl. They replace the missing thyroid hormone with a synthetic version, which is supposed to do the same thing. Problem is, medical studies have shown that it doesn't. They test your required dose of synthetic hormone by testing for a different hormone, TSH - "Thyroid Sensing Hormone". Basically, another gland in your brain checks your body for thyroid level, and if it's too low, it sends out TSH to trigger your thyroid to create more thyroid hormone. Turns out, though, that synthetic thyroid hormone is detected as real thyroid hormone by that gland - causing it to normalize the level of TSH - but it doesn't actually do the job that the real thyroid hormone does - raising your metabolism.
End result - I take $400 (after insurance) of medicine per year that doesn't do jack, to keep my TSH level "normal", and my metabolism is still crawling. I weigh about 260lbs now. I eat sensibly, get exercise, but none of it does any good at reducing my fat. Only way I could really lose it would be through liposuction. And I'm not alone. Anyone who has this condition will tell you the same thing.
Poor means hoping the toothache goes away.
Maybe you are remembering him from his clerks 1/2 days? A quick search turned up this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzvlLyHV4s0
That's quite obese ...
insightful, really?
you certainly can call someone a "fatass". there is no law against it. you can call someone anything you want, but in return someone might call you an "asshole", and they might be right.
is there a line between political correctness and politeness? or do you think we need to get rid of that too?
and fwiw, I agree, smith wasn't exactly forthcoming with the details of the case (he was switching flights, only single seat available, etc) and SW has acquitted themselves pretty well from a PR perspective. i think the man just got a little stung by a humiliating experience and wanted to rant a little.
He had a ticket for a later flight and was on standby for an earlier one.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
I am 6'1" and weigh 195 pounds, and I call bullshit on that claim.
I have almost 2 million miles on United, 300K on American, and a bunch on several others.
Because of my status I rarely fly coach anymore, but I still get stuck in the goat locker when there is no other choice, and while it is by far from spacious it is not that bad.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
What I wonder is why the heck KS would be flying standby
'Standby' used to mean a cheap ticket bought last minute by a college kid with a backpack.
It doesn't mean that anymore. Let's imagine you're a millionaire like presumably KS is. You're booked on a 1pm flight, then get to the airport early and find out there's an 11am flight, so you try to get on that one instead. You're booked on the 1pm and on 'standby' for the 11am flight.
Numerous airplanes (except the small ones) have varying sized seats (even in coach) - just like many movie theaters. Simply accomodating a larger passenger by placing them in a larger seat seems to be a viable method of ensuring people's comfort.
Can you provide some specific examples of carriers and seat configurations? I fly about once a month, mostly on US-based 'domestic' routes, and I'm not familiar with what you're talking about. An airline like United has 2 types of passenger seats on the aircraft - A wider 'business class' seat, and a narrower 'economy class' seat. United also has "Economy Plus" whereby they increase the seat pitch (the distance between the seat and the seat in front of it). Southwest is all one class, with identical seats.
A transatlantic mainline carrier might have four classes of service: First class, business class, "premium economy" and economy. However, this is rarely the case flying economy in the United States.
Southwest only has Coach class.
He buys two seats because he hates people and doesn't want to have anyone sit next to him and if you actually read his twitter, you would find out that he can fasten the belt with no extension and sit with the arm rest done.. Ass..
He normally buys double seats due to his width.
This time he was on standby and there was no double seat for him. To prevent the person next to him from suffering the overflow they made him take the next flight and gave him $100 for his trouble.
He knew the rules, this just makes a whining, self-entitled asshole.
He's not complaining about the fact that the rules exist. Obviously he didn't mind, since he consistently buys double seats. He's complaining that they let him board the plane and THEN kicked him out. They could have just not seated him and it would be fine.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
Centurion: What's this, then? "Romanes eunt domus"? People called Romanes, they go, the house?
Brian: It says, "Romans go home. "
Centurion: No it doesn't ! What's the latin for "Roman"? Come on, come on !
Brian: Er, "Romanus" !
Centurion: Vocative plural of "Romanus" is?
Brian: Er, er, "Romani" !
Centurion: [Writes "Romani" over Brian's graffiti] "Eunt"? What is "eunt"? Conjugate the verb, "to go" !
Brian: Er, "Ire". Er, "eo", "is", "it", "imus", "itis", "eunt".
Centurion: So, "eunt" is...?
Brian: Third person plural present indicative, "they go".
Centurion: But, "Romans, go home" is an order. So you must use...?
[He twists Brian's ear]
Brian: Aaagh ! The imperative !
Centurion: Which is...?
Brian: Aaaagh ! Er, er, "i" !
Centurion: How many Romans?
Brian: Aaaaagh ! Plural, plural, er, "ite" !
Centurion: [Writes "ite"] "Domus"? Nominative? "Go home" is motion towards, isn't it?
Brian: Dative !
[the Centurion holds a sword to his throat]
Brian: Aaagh ! Not the dative, not the dative ! Er, er, accusative, "Domum" !
Centurion: But "Domus" takes the locative, which is...?
Brian: Er, "Domum" !
Centurion: [Writes "Domum"] Understand? Now, write it out a hundred times.
Brian: Yes sir. Thank you, sir. Hail Caesar, sir.
Centurion: Hail Caesar ! And if it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off.
I'm 5'11", and I would fly folded into a 4'x4'x4' box if it would save me $50.
You are awash in a sea of fiercely stated opinions. Obvious exits are: 'File->Quit', 'Reply', and 'Page Down'.