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Robots To Clear the Baltic Seafloor of WW-II Mines
An anonymous reader writes "A Russian company is building a massive natural gas pipeline that will run across the Baltic Sea floor. But first, they must clear some of the 150,000 unexploded bombs sitting at the bottom of the sea, left there by the Russian and German armies in the 1940s. About 70 of these mines, each filled with 300 kg of explosive charge, sit in the pipeline's path, mostly in its northern section just south of Finland. And so the company contracted to remove the mines is bringing in robots to do the dirty work. Here's how it will work: A research ship deploys the robot to the seabed, where it identifies the exact location of the explosive. After sounding a warning to surrounding ship traffic, scaring fish away using a small explosive, and then emitting a 'seal screamer' of high intensity noises designed to make the area around the blast quite uncomfortable for marine mammals, Bactec's engineers erupt a 5 kg blast, forcing the mine to detonate. This process ensures the safety of humans plus any animals living in the surrounding environment. The operation concludes with the robot being redeployed to clear up the scrap of the now-destroyed bomb."
once again, The Man keeping the metalman down by only giving him the shitty jobs!!!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
One day robots will use humans to dispose of mines...won't be so funny then...
They get blown up. That kinda tends to happen when you put bombs in the water.
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There probably aren't a lot of plants that far down, but there would be lots of invertebrates. Poor invertebrates have all the bad luck. Perhaps one day they will learn the evolutionary advantage of being cute and furry.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
They'll grow back.
I hope that around 2050 we'll take care of Afghanistan, once Rwanda is done around 2035.
Maybe the rumors that robots have learned to submit stories to slashdot are true!!
What makes them think the mines will explode? I mean its not like these things were engineered to last 60 years.
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It's nice to see they scare away fish and mammals first before detonating bombs, but how do they determine that the unexploded ordnance they blow up are not mustard gas shells dumped there after WW2?
So... what? Blow up the fish and the marine mammals, too, in the interest of fairness?
What about the plants? and stuff that can't move away fast enough?
It's not like WWII happened yesterday. They had plenty of time to move away from the bombs. If they didn't that's their own damn fault for choosing to grow right near an old bomb! [/joke]
One would think that after sitting at the bottom of the salty ocean for 60+ years it's shell would have rusted through and the explosives saturated with water. if those mines are really still good then they are remarkably well engineered
Plants in Baltic sea??? Oh came on it is most polluted ocean in the World.
I can't believe they have opposition from ENVIRONMENTALISTS! Of all people, they should be the first to encourage the removal of mines. Frankly I would like to see all 150,000 removed, we have enough mines in our world we don't need them in the ocean as well.
Any pollution from the remains of these mines would only be temporary, the sea claims all things in the end and it will eventually filter out/destroy toxins on its own once its in flow is stopped. If its already heavily polluted they should focus their efforts on whatever is causing it before this.
It sounds like they already know where they are - or at least the ones that are in the path of the construction.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Get more fertile soil to grow in, more plant nutrients floating around, clear spots of ground to invade to.
I really don't see a downside for the plants, its not like they are being lit on fire. We've been using fertilizer as explosives for a long time, this really could help the plants.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
Coral doesn't grow in the Baltic sea, though this probably isn't a great idea for some of the stationary shellfish in nearby costal waters.
The interesting part is that the de-mining process starts with the assumption that all of these mines will still detonate. Wonder what kind of explosive is that reliable.
Hopefully, the actual fusing and ship detecting 'sensors' on the mine (not sure what else to call the big mechanical and magnetic switches mines of this vintage use) no longer work.
And just what kind of reefs grow in brackish waters that freeze over in the winter?
Certainly, there aren't any corals in the region, except for hotels.
Hey, Mom! Is it beer, yet?
LOLZ. But what's the real difference between fish and cat meat?
Only a Chinaman would know.
"Although this decision is by no means unanimous, the Human feel that the seafloorlacks the necessary characteristics to take upon this task on their own," said Prostetnic Human Smith, a captain with the fleet. "Demolition will begin soon."
"As the proper paperwork has already been appropriately filed, resistance is useless!" Smith added. "This detonation had been discussed for several decades and the plans were available in a nearby continent for review and/or complaint. We regret the loss of lives, but we can't be blamed if you won't take the trouble to get out and get involved in your neighborhood"
The shock wave is not a problem, this is a problem.
Life isn't fair.
Seriously, what else are they going to do? If they try to reclaim the bombs and blow them up at another location, the project just got massively more complex, they are going to still damage the surrounding area when they dig it up and drag it away, the stuff that breaks if one goes off in-place just got a lot more expensive, you have the risk of someone getting hurt or killed during transport, and they've still got to blow it up somewhere. Some life forms are going to be extinguished when the bomb goes off, and no one in their right mind is going to design something to try and keep the bomb from going off. Unexploded ordinance is just nasty stuff that may or may not still be viable - the only effective way to make it safe is to let all the boom out of it.
They try to scare off all the critters they can, then they blow up the mine. It's as cheap, efficient, and about as minimally invasive as such a project could be. That's not to say it's not invasive, only that (short of transporter technology where we can beam it all into space) it's about as good as we're going to get.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
Or just farm out the job to PETA they seem to have that angle covered.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Of course I expect it is not actually robots but rather remote controlled vehicles.
While the article does not state it the graphics clearly shows ROV. Remote Operated Vehicle.
No robots here. Please move on.
How many "missing" nukes lay on the bottom of the world's oceans? Just counting the ones we know about, there are at least a few, and you can bet that there are at least a few more we don't know about.
Plants? WTF?! This is the bottom of the Baltic Sea, south of Finland, not a shallow coral reef in the Caribbean. There's no plants down there.
There's some very beautiful parts of the ocean, places where scuba divers and snorklers like to visit to see the pretty fish, coral, and underwater plants. The Baltic Sea is not one of these places.
Badass.
Coral doesn't grow in the Baltic sea, though this probably isn't a great idea for some of the stationary shellfish in nearby costal waters.
That was a far more polite answer than I could come up with.... coral in the Baltic? Other aquatic life yes.... but coral? *expletive deleted*
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
So long and thanks, for all the fish....
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Hindsight is supposed to be 20/20, but I have to wonder, were these mines the product of shortsighted people who were focused too intently on their present-day worries, or were they a necessity that just didn't get cleaned up like a respondible entity should do?
Wars come and go, but humanity continues on (for now). Was mining the sea a shortsighted endeavor that ultimately caused more harm than what was being prevented (invasion)? Or was the outcome of the war so pivotal to the course of human existance that mining the sea was a necessity, but those responsible simply failed to clean up their mess?
If only it was so profitable to remove landmines and stop them from performing their gruesome task.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Won't be so nice for the environment when the new gas line springs a leak.
Are these mines that were intended to damage surface ships that sunk after time, or were they intended to get subs? Skimmed the article but didn't see that detail. Seems they're a bit too deep to be intended for surface ships, yeah?
Are you suggesting that the mines not be placed where they are? Very well. I'll call a meeting with Hitler and Stalin and see if we can get this un-done.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Don't be so quick to judge. There are such things as cold water and deep water corals. These even live in some parts of Norway.
The reason for them not living in the Baltic is that the water does not have enough salt. But in the parts close to the North Sea - the Skagerrak - several types have been found.
There's more than 150,000 mines, and they're only going to clean up 70 of them? What's the big deal? That's less than .05%! Think of the children of the puffer fish!
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
I was undecided on whether to go into robotics or demolitions. Now I don't have to choose!
Coral reef ends at about 40 meters or so. I don't think anywhere on the Baltic Sea floor would qualify as prime coral reef territory for a large number of reasons, but depth is the first and most immediate that comes to mind.
And let's think about this for a second. They are doing the "boom-boom" thing to eliminate the bombs to make room for a natural gas pipeline. You might as well complain that the local contractor is using a weed-whacker to clear pretty flowers before he starts leveling the ground with a bulldozer. The amount of damage caused by these bombs going off is nothing compared to what's going to happen when the pipeline goes in.
And if you skip the mine-clearing step, just wait till the first mine goes off and releases a few million gallons of natural gas into the surrounding environment.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
Yes, she had a variety show back then. One of the skits involved a WWII suicide mission, held in a tent, complete with a map they can point to from time to time. So the commander is brought in, they all stand at attention yadda yadda and when he starts the briefing he is half mumbling his words but the only words you could ever understand where the words suicide, death, and die. WHen he called in Cher to demonstrate gas masks (of all things) Cher also mumbles which even gets worse when she puts the gas mask on and continues talking! Her voice is muffled and when she removes it the words Instant death were very clear. The soldiers look at each other, confused. Funny as hell.
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
"Dirty Jobs"... with Mike RoweBOT? (snare drum)
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
For a minute I read your post as this:
and I was going to vehemently disagree.
We've been using fertilizer as explosives for a long time, this really could help the plants.
Sounds good in theory, and as for practice, I have never seen quite as much greenery as the explosives range at the army base in Huntsville, at least as of the early 90s. Apparently nitrates and phosphorous are good for plants, who would have guessed? Also the equivalent of soil aeration could help on the ocean floor.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Interesting how we're still expending money and effort to clean up previous wars. Due to the global nature of this particular war, really makes me wonder who should be footing the bill for cleanup like this, especially in "international" waterways.
>Was mining the sea a shortsighted endeavor that ultimately caused more harm than what was being prevented (invasion)?
Mines were, and continue to be, cheap and effective area denial weapons.
When used at sea, they ensnare the unwary, and, once the position of the minefield becomes known to your enemy, diverts enemy traffic into places more convenient for you.
This has been sufficient justification for their use for about a hundred years or so.
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Oh yeah..
http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=M-N_ec6ftJY&v=AR2BkmFEPSM At approximately 2:30 into it.. Sea Mines!
Irwin Allen only made disaster films and this scheme sounds like one too.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Just because theres nothing you enjoy seeing down there doesnt mean its bare and desolate. Even in places where there are no coral reefs, the ocean bottom is rich in uncharismatic invertebrates, the exact type that orgs like WWF and the like dont care about because theyre not fluffy, colorful or cute. Not to mention the poorly studied microbial communities that exist in such places and that some recent studies show those communities to be filled with organisms never before described.
yeah, nothing wrong with bombing the Baltic Sea... hell, why not just drop a few nukes down there and speed things up a bit?
Are you suggesting that the mines not be placed where they are? Very well. I'll call a meeting with Hitler and Stalin and see if we can get this un-done.
It's too late for that now, they're in big trouble. They're going to be SOOOO dead.
Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
Wow, just when you think Peta can't get any more ridiculous.... That website made my day, thank you.
A warning to anyone tempted to google for the article's intriguing term "seal screamer": the google search result pointing to Urban Dictionary's entry for "screamin' seal"-- while interesting in its own right, and marginally related-- is likely not the same phenomenon.
HSJ$$*&#^!#+++ATH0
NO CARRIER
That campaign has the effect of making them 400% more delicious to Dwarf Fortress players.
This would be a lot more interesting if it was actual autonomous vehicles. The article makes this sound like the same old human-labor intensive process, just by a tethered remote vehicle. It seems like a well designed set of robots would be capable of finding, identifying, and destroying the mines with minimal supervision. You could run a mothership to supply power and fresh explosives. A bit of effort could clean up ALL the mines in the area, not just the few that happen to be in the way of this particular pipeline.
Ok then, what's your proposal to remove these unexploded mines? If it involves human labor, I think you should be the first to volunteer.
Wow, I read the AC's link. That seems to be pretty serious and a real threat, at least immediately and before it all gets diluted away.
... That's not to say it's not invasive, only that (short of transporter technology where we can beam it all into space) it's about as good as we're going to get.
I don't think the sharks would like to be beamed into space, anyway...
Why can't
"Approximately 100,000 km2 (38,610 sq mi) of the Baltic's seafloor (a quarter of its total area) is a variable dead zone." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Sea .. Right from wikipedia, guess there is less to worry about than one would think
"Unexploded ordinance is just nasty stuff that may or may not still be viable - the only effective way to make it safe is to let all the boom out of it."
For one of my projects, I was involved in unmanned aircraft activities at Fort Riley, KS, using an old weapons test range. Downrange was a tree line that we were warned to stay away from, and there were "UXO" signs around them. Apparently, trees had grown *around* unexploded ordnance, and that those trees were known to spontaneously explode. It was too dangerous to go out there, and they couldn't just bomb the land on base, so the Army just left that bunch of trees alone.
mine-destroying robots are pretty futuristic-cool.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
Obviously the Germans should be forced to pay war reparations...
But there are really interesting shipwrecks, including some from WWII. Here's one example of a soviet sub near Stockholm: http://www.abc.se/~pa/uwa/s7.htm And a small selection of other misc wrecks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Shipwrecks_in_the_Baltic_Sea
The more you know, the less you need. [Admin added: from me.]
I disagree, Peta protests are the best, There all about hot semi-naked chicks spouting on about something you could careless about.
Won't somebody think of the animated sea kittens!?
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
> the exact type that orgs like WWF and the like dont care about because theyre not fluffy, colorful or cute
You're saying the World Wrestling Federation officially endorses fluffy, colorful cute animals? Does this explain the costumes? Or the female wrestlers? Inquiring minds want to know!
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
while they're at it?
Seriously, any kind of major underwater operation by a government has to be suspected as a cover story for developing, testing or *using* some kind of spook gear.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Depends on who put them there perhaps? Many nations just dumped left over explosives after wars at sea, the Irish Sea is full of ships that were loaded with explosives, grenades, etc, just towed out and sunk. Have a read of "Munitions Dumped at Sea: A Literature Review" for example.
That's just misinformation. Plants don't always grow back.
I disagree, Peta protests are the best, There all about hot semi-naked chicks spouting on about something you could careless about.
I never can understand what it is they are saying. Maybe my mind was just ... distracted?
the exact type that orgs like WWF and the like dont care about because theyre not fluffy, colorful or cute.
The women in the WWF are NOT cute, they're skanks. And what the heck does professional wrestling have to do with oceans anyway?
What about the crabs, starfish, clams, and other slow or non-movers that inhabit the seafloor?
Poor things will be made into sushi!
Licia Fox isn't cute?
Cui bono?
Fork it up, Israel.
In Soviet Russia, robots clear mines for YOU!
Oh, wait, where's the reverse part again?
Otherwise a ship might hit one and cause the front to fall off.
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
Great Cthulhu is invertebrate, no? Hmm... are we really sure about this explosion thing? Ia! Ia! Fhtagn!
Protoplasm. Quiet Protoplasm. I like quiet protoplasm.
So, if it isn't fine Caribbean coral, it's not a plant? There's no plants in a sea that's an average of only 50 meters deep (about 170ft for you metrically challenged people)? Just because it isn't pretty doesn't mean it isn't there or important. But anyway, the problem isn't so much destruction of plant or animal life, the area affected is relatively small, but the fact that the Baltic Sea floor is covered not only with regular ordnance from the Russians and Germans, but also with tons upon tons of chemical weapons from WWII era and probably even more significantly, with untold amounts of industrial chemical waste that was produced during the cold war era and was regularly dumped by the russians into the waters all over the sea.
The question is, do these invertebrates provide more value to the human species than the pipeline would? If they do not, it makes no sense for humans to protect them.
Plants require photosynthesis to get energy. That means they need light. Therefore, plants don't exist at deep depths. Most scuba divers will tell you that unless you're interested in diving for shipwrecks, there's really nothing worth looking at below about 40 feet (unless you're looking for unknown species, in which case you won't be scuba diving, you'll be in a deep-diving submersible and out in the open ocean diving to thousands of feet, not in the relatively shallow Baltic Sea).
But you definitely have a point with the waste and chemical weapons. Maybe they should clean some of that stuff up first, at least along the area where they're planning to put this pipeline.
"The Baltic Sea is becoming more and more polluted. Not everybody living near the shore of the Baltic Sea is protecting it. It is the water of life for countries like Finland and Sweden. "
"Large quantities of chemical warfare agents were dumped in the Baltic Sea after World War II (WWII). This included 32 000 t of chemical munitions containing approximately 11 000 t of chemical warfare agents which were dumped into the Bornholm Basin and 2000 t of chemical munitions containing approximately 1000 t in the Gotland Basin. Because this material was contained in wooden crates, it was distributed throughout the Baltic. The long-term environmental impact of these agents is unknown." GP Glasby, Disposal of chemical weapons in the Baltic Sea, Science of The Total Environment Volume 206, Issues 2-3, 5 November 1997, Pages 267-273.
Do they exactly where these unexploded ordnance's are located? Would be kind of fun to hurl stones at them with a giant trebuchet.
Life is not for the lazy.
Hey now, we could at least let them sign the treaty at some place fancy, like Versailles.
Wildlife does surprisingly well too.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
There's nothing fun about unexploded ordinance, it's deadly dangerous. Always give military impact areas wide berth, even when nobody's shooting, what's in the ground is far more dangerous than what's flying through the air.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
It's not that easy to tell the difference between a chemical weapon and an explosive weapon, especially if the marking rotted off 60 years ago from the saltwater. Most likely any drums of toxic waste rusted away a while ago as well.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
This is not possible due to a very complex political situation in the area. In fact, there are already pipes over land, they are just not... shall we say, easily accessible.
No the point is that it doesn't get washed away. The munitions in the reference are thickened agents so only the outer layer of the mass is hydrolyzed making it non-toxic, the inner is still dangerous today(from 60 years ago); it is really nasty, evil stuff.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Sulphur Mustard? These were underwater mines designed to explode underwater. No one tries to destroy submarines and ships using mines containing poison gas!
Add to this that we have plenty of nitrates and phosphorous in the baltic sea anyway dispite trying to regulate how close to the coast the farmers are aloud to grow plants (actually they get financial benefits for leaving a gap close to the shore). The problem in the baltic sea is not that the plants don't have enough fertilizer to grow, its that they have too much.
The pipe is cool, because robots are involved, and it will clean the Baltic? Wait, the real concern are the chemical weapons. What about accidents when parts of Baltic marine life were wiped off because of some spontaneous chemical weapons leakages?
Besides, the former german chancellor Schroeder acting as a CEO of a Russian megacompany rings my alarm bells.
See the pictures in the link below.
Source [Polish]
"At the end of 1970s the beaches of Baltic "
http://www.environet.eu/pub/pubwis/rura/g.htm [environet.eu]
"The total number of chemical weapons captured by Allied Forces was never revealed [...] The inventory for the Potsdam conference specifies ca. 70,000 tonnes of active substance in millions of ammunition units" the article says, that the western allies dumped their stocks of chemical weapons in concrete-filled ship hulls at the depth of 500m, near the coast of Norway. Soviets dumped the discarded ammunition without any protection preferrably near Bornholm or Gotland, or if the ship crew deemed necessary - at any place in Baltic.
Corroded ammunition has already poisoned Pucka Bay near Gdansk in 1970s (see the pictures). The fishing is not allowed there to this day.
Can't choose between an artillery piece and a farm implement?
Well now you can have both. Buy a plowitzer(tm) today!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
How many species of plant only live within the blast radius of these 70 mines?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Since when are corals plants?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
I think he's talking about dumped mustard gas weapons that may have ended up in the blast radius of these mines.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
That's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard and PETA is really good at stoopid! For the last few years, every time they make news, I have to wonder if, up top, they're being run by someone who's really working for the U.S. Beef and Cattle Association. They're doing stuff now that seemsso counter productive to their professed aims, it seems almost deliberate.
I drank what? -- Socrates
I don't imagine that's a huge number, and large areas of the Baltic seafloor are pretty dead anyway. I don't know if the areas with mines happen to be, though.
Hitler clearly regretted having put those mines there. I mean, the man committed suicide when he realized the full scope of WWII's outcome.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081104084210.htm
I'd suggest you do some reading. How would you like that crow?
"(I) have this unfortunate condition that causes me not to believe a single thing any politician says when a mic's on.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081104084210.htm
I'd suggest you do some reading. How would you like that crow?
Stir fried with extra garlic please.
I learned something on Slashdot that had nothing to do with computers! Who knew?
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
That's not too far off from reality. There is mine clearing equipment that rolls over a field and just hits the ground in front of it with heavy chains.
Does Germany want their bombs removed?
They went to so much trouble to put them there.
I'd get permission first.
Be seeing you...