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Trash-To-Fuel Process Validated By US Military
An anonymous reader writes "After going through all kinds of grief, including being shut down by the Washington State Ecology Department, classifying them as an 'incinerator,' it looks like Green Power Inc is finally ready to shine. The Air Force, Navy, Army, and Marines, in a joint effort, validated their technology in November, and the results are now being published for the first time. For every 100 tons of municipal solid waste feedstock processed each day, the plant produces 1240 gallons of Naphtha, 3700 gallons of Kerosene, 6900 gallons of Diesel and 3000 gallons of Fuel Oil. And even the ash can be used for cement or asphalt. They generate 1 MW of electricity to sell to the grid 24/7, running three shifts per day to keep the plant going, employing approximately five people per shift. Sticker price is $25 million. ROI, 3.5 years. Maybe with this announcement, the trend of no sales in the US will change, compared to the 72 foreign contracts backed by letters of credit."
I still have to sort my recycling?
That's pretty much the whole point of the military.
If this is for real & doesn't have any game-breaking drawbacks down the road, this could go a long, long way to curing our energy dependence on other nations until we get our stuff together with more renewable power sources.
There is a war going on for your mind.
It's a Napalm factory ! No wonder the military love it !
Great! Just what I've been asking for more Naphtha!
Sticker price is $25 million. ROI, 3.5 years.
Only $25 Million? Dude. If this process really works as well as they are reporting, this is a HUGE deal. Think of the implications of setting up these facilities in multiple parts of the country.
This won't solve our energy or trash problems, but it could put a sizeable dent in both. Huzzah!
Living With a Nerd
No wonder the return on investment of this $25 million dollar plant is estimated to be in just over three and a half years, after which it is pure profit -....
That's a bit of an exaggeration. There's personnel, insurance, maintenance, etc....
They look like nice numbers but I'd have to sit down and look at them real close with an auditor.
... it probably isn't. This guy is a snake oil salesman.
The one I know also focuses on stuff like straw and manure/sewer waste, it's advantageous for wet waste that can't go into power plants (some places burn garbage for electricity/district heating). Much of the fertilizer value (nitrates, phosphates) stays in the water phase, you can cycle this back into agriculture in order not to deprive your fields long term. Definitely has potential, especially if it's as cheap as they say.
I want to see the actual reports from the military. The "3rd party results" on the article have Green Power Inc stamped all over them. Until I see those results, I'm skeptical.
The website of Green Power Inc. seems quite dodgy - http://cleanenergyprojects.com/. Now, that can be either a very good sign or a very very very bad sign. It reminds me of the website of the Atom chip corporation(http://atomchip.com/) with their quantum optical processors.
How long before we can integrate this into our De Loreans with a "Mr. Fusion" recycling unit?
Like others here, I'm not convinced. DoD is a very big place, and to say that was a 'joint' validation is odd... who was this joint organization who specializes in trash recycling within DoD? Probably one exists someplace (next to the agency researching favorite alien ice cream flavours), but what's telling is that the article doesn't mention who they are.
And the 'link' referred to doesn't have any mention of DoD in it either. Since the PDF has PES watermarks and was authored by Word 2010 (which the DoD won't be using), it's 99% likely it's not a 3rd party document. I suppose it might be based on a 3rd party report, but why not just include the test report? A government test report like this should be public info.
(from the article)
> So far, all of his 72 contracts are foreign, guaranteed by letters of credit. None in the U.S. yet. What does that say?
I think it probably says that there is something we don't know about that prospective buyers do know about. If no one in the US wants this, then there is a reason for it. At first glance, this seems like a great advancement. Who wouldn't want to turn all their garbage into profit? That seems like a no brainer to me. So if we set up a few thousand of these, then we convert most of our waste into free fuel. Awesome! Its Back To The Future. All we need next are intelligent pants and shoes that shrink to fit and a cool hover board that glides in mid air. I'm not trying to be doom and gloom here, but I'm just betting that there is more to this story that we don't know about. I hope I am wrong, however, and that this ends up being exactly what it appears to be. If thats the case, then I hope we see more of these in the US.
Maybe Doc Brown just got the name wrong?!
This sounds like an interesting idea to me.
So I go to this site, and I get these conversions:
Naptha; 1,200 Gal = 6,900 lbs
Kerosene; 3,700 Gal = 25,000 lbs
Diesel (as fuel Oil); 6,900 Gal = 51,000 lbs
Fuel Oil; 3,00 Gal = 23,000 lbs
Total: 168,000 pounds; 84 tons.
84% efficiency. Not counting the ash.
Or not.
Like how I comma everything? Metric is overrated...
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Perhaps better put as:
The system is not at all limited to what one initially thinks of as biowaste; things made from plant materials (including ancient forests, through the intermediate step of being oil) are still organic. :)
Firstly, there is no unaffiliated source for the claim of US DoD involvement. Secondly, the report is clearly not written by the DoD.
Thirdly, the input waste seems prescreened - consisting mostly of paper and cardboard, some paper waste, plastic waste with no elements except carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, and zero metals or glass.
If you are doing catalytic conversion, this is the waste that is perfect. There is nothing surprising per se for being able to convert a wooden log into oil. Competing uses at the moment are for heating (e.g. wood burning) and recyling of paper. If you already _have_ your waste sorted like this, it should be really easy to incinerate cleanly or to recycle. In any case it means that this isnt' for converting _existing_ landfills. Claims about eliminating CO2 are uncertain, because this would only be able to use already-sorted material which already is recycled, and hence an increase in the amount of paper turned into oil, would mean a reduction in the amount turned into new paper, meaning more new paper needed.
My main question would be how it would be affected by tiny amounts of noncarbon elements like glass, metals, chlorine from PVC, and other crap which forms from imperfect sorting of municipal waste. I have a sneaking suspicion that glass particles in your jet fuel will be a problem.
Of course, this would be fantastic IF close to perfect sorting CAN be done and IF trace amounts of noncarbon elements are acceptable and IF once you have done this it's a more efficient method than either paper recycling or electricity through combustion. If those ifs line up, here's to the next superstar. Being a suspicious person I suspect that the reason a large chemicals company hasn't patended it already is because they don't.
So far, all of his 72 contracts are foreign, guaranteed by letters of credit. None in the U.S. yet. What does that say?
Americans are not the stupidiest people on the planet?
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
It sounds great and all, but show me a municipal waste stream that doesn't have things it shouldn't have (tube tvs with lead and mercury or even just flourescent light bulbs). Maybe they weed all the bad stuff (they can know about) before hand, but that surely isn't a cost-free undertaking.
...the return on investment of this $25 million dollar plant is estimated to be in just over three and a half years...
Beware of the salesman that quotes a Return on Investment in terms of time.
The military is also there because some people enjoy killing other people, like people enjoying violent video games.
So it sounds like this technology could convert human corpses into energy. I'm not saying the US military would use it in that manner but perhaps china would find it useful? Makes me wonder what Hitler might have to say about this development if he was still alive...
Garbage! This post is just trash
...with the cycles of life...
Yeah baby!
Sure, it’s not perfect. But the fact that it instantly reminds me of natural cycles (which are very efficient), where nothing is wasted, is a sure sign that this is a good thing.
We need more like this!
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Dr. Emmett Brown would be proud.