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Microsoft, Amazon Ink Kindle and Linux Patent Deal
theodp writes "Microsoft says it has reached a wide-ranging IP agreement with Amazon in which each company has granted the other a license to its patent portfolio. Microsoft says the agreement covers technologies in products such as Amazon's Kindle — including open-source and proprietary technologies used in the e-reader — in addition to the use of Linux-based servers. Microsoft issued a news release celebrating the accord, while Amazon declined to comment. 'We are pleased to have entered into this patent license agreement with Amazon.com,' said Microsoft's deputy general counsel. 'Microsoft's patent portfolio is the largest and strongest in the software industry, and this agreement demonstrates our mutual respect for intellectual property as well as our ability to reach pragmatic solutions to IP issues regardless of whether proprietary or open source software is involved.' A Microsoft representative declined to say which of its products are covered by the deal."
The agreement provides each company with access to the other’s patent portfolio and covers a broad range of products and technology ...
Now Microsoft will be able to sell all its products with just one click!
.lit format in favor of Kindle's .azw? Will Amazon push out and offer Azure on EC2?
But seriously where does this end? Will we see the death of Microsoft's
My work here is dung.
Which is like doing the following:
"Hey dude, I did something really cool!"
"Oh yeah, what's that?"
"Not telling! Tee hee!"
ilovegeorgebush
If all copyright holders on software patents start to create bilateral agreements, it will eventually become clear that software patents are only an artificial entry barrier.
This is pretty obvious that this move was done in order for Microsoft to get ahold of more patents. Sure, they share the patents, but Microsoft can use even more patents now.
I do think that Amazon should use this to their advantage as soon as possible.
The world is how you make it
"We're really good at making money off of other people's products! Even free software we get paid for. We're sooooo cool!! [insert crazy monkey dance here]"
Seriously...this company needs to SCO!
American automakers team up with Japanese automakers to produce an electric car?
Walmart inks a deal to take over every state's welfare department?
In an effort to keep Microsoft in the US, Canada becomes a wholly owned subsidiary of Google?
Wait, those last two sound feasible...
Microsoft issued a news release celebrating the accord, while Amazon declined to comment.
Microsoft says the agreement covers technologies in products such as Amazon's Kindle
A Microsoft representative declined to say which of its products are covered by the deal.
It sounds like Amazon got caught violating one or more of Microsoft's patents, and this deal was arranged to avoid a lawsuit.
Microsoft's traditional play of "Extend, Embrace, Extinguish"..
This most likely has something to do with a Microsoft play towards Windows 7 Mobile and a slate device as an answer to Apple's iPad . Pundits are spewing about Windows 7 Mobile and the fact that it sucked less in comparison to Windows Mobile 6 (in the vein that Windows 7 sucks less than Vista). Said device would be hooked into Amazon's range of eBooks for the Kindle.
I hope you guys realize that this is Amazon's and MS way to battle iTunes? I think the iPad was the final push that Amazon needed to fall for going to Microsoft.
I expect som XPad with WindowsMobile7 to be anounced and an integration with the Amazon e-bookstore.
The problem is that just like Android the WindowsMobile7 offers little new and as seen on the Droid, Hero and Legend -- the quality is not there yet in a long shot.
Apple has done some real unintentional good, it transformed the industry completely. Too bad the options aren't really options. I'm hoping for Nokias QT to start working on iPhone, Android and WM7 as well. That way, the apps become less relevant and the consumers can pick the phones that fit them best.
Personally I hate the slowness of Android, everyhting feel so slow on the Legend. But, I guess it will be better with time.
Spot the verb in the headline? I didn't.
Then unless you are ESL, hang your head and go back to 4th Grade.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
It's a verb and a noun. Like this...
VERB: Microsoft and Amazon ink a deal.
NOUN: Microsoft fscks Amazon before the ink is dry.
Verb
* S: (v) ink (append one's signature to) "They inked the contract"
* S: (v) ink (mark, coat, cover, or stain with ink) "he inked his finger"
* S: (v) ink (fill with ink) "ink a pen"
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=ink
So long Amazon, it was nice knowing you.
Microsoft's patent portfolio is the largest and strongest in the software industry...
..for certain definitions of "the software industry" which exclude the International Business Machines Corporation.
This statement is scary: "this agreement demonstrates our mutual respect for intellectual property as well as our ability to reach pragmatic solutions to IP issues regardless of whether proprietary or open source software is involved." The fact that they brought in open source is scary. And the fact that Amazon is paying Microsoft, only adds to the fire that Microsoft started with their software patent rage. Hopefully, software patents will eventually go away, as it is now being revisited in court. Software patents are giving Microsoft uncompetitive advantages in many areas. It's essentially giving Microsoft monopolistic advantages all over again, after the anti-trust cases of the 1990's. http://members.apex-internet.com/sa/windowslinux
They have helped Microsoft spread their FUD on patent issues and Linux.
I'll not be making any more purchases from Amazon.
Is this even legal, MS is making some sort of property claims , else they are engaged in an extortion racket. What does the FSF have to say on all this ? I think a definitive statement from them would help clear the air. a statement to the effect that such secret deals are bogus and have no standing in law.
Amazon, Microsoft sign patent deal
This patent stuff has got to be a gold mine for msft. IP extortion seems to be a brilliant business model.
February 22, 2010
Microsoft, Amazon strike patent deal covering Kindle and Linux
As would be expected, the actual patents that were supposedly violated are not disclosed. For many years msft claimed that Linux violates msft patents, but msft absolutely refuses to disclose which patents.
Microsoft says the deal grants Amazon patent-related "coverage" for its use of open-source and proprietary technologies in its Kindle e-reader, and its use of Linux-based computer servers.
At the same time, the deal has the potential to stir new controversy in the tech industry, if it's interpreted as Amazon implicitly endorsing Microsoft's claims that Linux and other open-source technologies violate its patents.
February 19, 2010
Nathan Myhrvold's Intellectual Ventures Could be Biggest Racketeering Operation in the United States and Beyond
Patent thug Nathan Myhrvold turns out to have over 1,000 patent proxies with which to potentially attack and extort those who do not pay "protection money"; he also spent over $1 million lobbying his government
THE New York Times has published this report about Microsoft's patent troll Nathan Myhrvold, who is backed by his colleague Bill Gates, his former employer Microsoft, and even Apple. He already terrorises the industry using patents that it spent literally billions of dollars acquiring (not actually working to invent anything of substance).
http://boycottnovell.com/2010/02/19/nathan-myhrvold-exposed-again/
And here is the NYT article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/technology/18patent.html
I suppose using the US legal system for patent extortion is especially cost effective since msft uses offshore labor for the legal work.
February 18, 2010
Microsoft to outsource general legal work to India
Software giant Microsoft will begin outsourcing general legal work to India after signing a deal with legal process outsourcing (LPO) company CPA Global. The news comes as CPA outlined plans to expand its Indian workforce from 600 to 1,000 by the end of 2011, and hinted at opening another outsourcing centre.
http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/microsoft-outsource-general-legal-work-india
I think MS should tell infringing parties which of its patents are being infringed, otherwise its patent claim should be invalidated due to insufficient proof.
Microsoft issued a news release celebrating the accord, while Amazon declined to comment.
Sometimes which dog is barking tells you a lot about what's going on out in the pasture.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
"I hope you guys realize that this is Amazon's and MS way to battle iTunes? I think the iPad was the final push that Amazon needed to fall for going to Microsoft"
.. :)
Please describe the correlation between Amazons core business and the iPad and iTunes and why Microsoft's Tablet computer and Microsoft's own online music service, the Zune Marketplace music service
-- spinn it all you can
Resistance is futile.You will be assimilated.
Rephrasing Al Capone's famous quote:
"It sounds like Amazon got caught violating one or more of Microsoft's patents, and this deal was arranged to avoid a lawsuit"
It sounds an awfull lot like a protection racket. Some people we don't know say you violation some patents we don't want to talk about. Best give us a cut of the house takings, just to be safe mind, else something bad might happen.
If MS can get some well known companies like Amazon to license open source software for them, then when they approach the next set of companies with an "agreement", they'll have a precedent. Open source violates MS patents, so MS must be paid if you use it, and here's a list of other companies which have already agreed.
Yep, just after they outsource their work ethics and just before they outsource their liability.
Ultimately, only their gold-collecting pockets will remain their own.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Microsoft doesnt have to sue linux companies, they just reach settlements with companies that use linux, the either
a) Encourage companies to use microsoft products through FUD
or
b) Get IP revenue from settlements.
If they tried to directly take on linux companies other than SUSE then they would have to disclose the patents.
Im sure if Microsoft tried to take on Red Hat then they would probably wind up clashing with IBM.
This suggests Microsoft's anti-Linux patent strategy is alive and well.
For those just getting up to speed:
Microsoft doesn't feel like competing fairly against open source products. So it attempts to use dubious legal trickery instead.
This started with SCO - a failed Unix company that took Microsoft investment in exchange for executing a legal attack on Linux vendors and users (based on copyright and licensing issues). The claim: that Linux infringed on their intellectual property rights. Their conduct in the case was truly awful (making the claim but resisting an explanation about what infringed; trying to shake down any and every Linux owner). Latest status here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO-Linux_controversies
This was only one aspect of the FUD campaign. Patents were another. Microsoft struck a patent deal with struggling Novel, and it feels very similar to what we see here. The implication: Novel agrees its use of Linux somehow infringed on Microsoft's patents, and that it (and by extension everyone else) must pay Microsoft to use Linux.
The FSF's response explains the problem:
http://www.fsf.org/news/microsoft_response
The article describes other similar cases.
Now we have Amazon making a deal. They have far fewer reasons on the surface, but I imagine we'll find out why at some point, and it probably has something to do with a much stronger, non-Linux-related, perhaps non-software patent that Microsoft holds and which they violate. In the process of being sued and settling, Microsoft enticed them to accept terms which included a similar "Linux-FUD" clause - allowing an announcement just like this.
Although software patents are utterly and obviously ridiculous, and although most first world nations besides the US don't allow them, and although even the US is moving away from them (see Bilski)... even given that many large companies such as IBM have announced that they will defend Linux with their own patent portfolios... even after Microsoft has weathered an antitrust trial (and should feel themselves on thin ice when it comes to anticompetitive behavior)... they appear to still be pursuing a legal strategy of attacking Linux via barratry.
In the deranged world of software patents, there is not exactly any such thing as sane legal reasoning. But as Microsoft convinces more companies to pay them for their use of Linux, then their patent claim gains a slimy veneer of legitimacy (or so they hope). Otherwise "why would so many people pay them?" This circular reasoning strengthens them in their eventual legal battles to come, as they attempt to hurt (or even end) the use of Linux.
Of course, this is not just about Linux. Were Microsoft or any other company to succeed at this game, they would effectively make open source software impossible.
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Microsoft's patent portfolio is the largest and strongest in the software industry
I like to mentally replace 'patent portfolio' with the more accurate term 'bullshit'. It certainly makes this sentence read better. Are companies at point now that lawyers outnumber engineers and software developers?
Azure is crap, MS knows it. They need to learn from Amazon.
Sadly, one of our largest clients has signed a deal with MS to deploy Azure over all the competing technologies in the x86 space. The deal was signed at the top, without input from the technical people who know the crap they will have to deal with. VMware isn't perfect, but everyone would agree it is the most mature of the x86.
Previous leadership has inked a few deals with Oracle and Microsoft that turned out to waste over a 2 yrs each in 200+ IT people and millions in IT infrastructure. Both ended up being thrown out in the 3rd year when the projects were know were near completion and WAY over budget. They never learn that golf course deals rarely turn out well.
Does anyone still use Biztalk in a high volume enterprise? No? Failure is the term we use for it. Azure will probably end up similar. Even since MS gives the software away, gives 10 consultants to make it work, they don't pay us for the 200 additional people it takes to make it work from now until future leadership finally pulls the plug. Boo.
Here's some background info on these deals:
I don't time right now to look into this deal, so if someone could add info to en.swpat.org about it, that would be great. Otherwise I'll do it later.
Please help publicise swpat.org - the software patents wiki
English is more robust than most people think. I always think it is funny when people take archaic terms like, "to ink a deal" and make fun of it for not being proper English. Ink has been used as a transitive verb since the 1500s.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=ink
An important change for education.
Perhaps this agreement is about ClearType. It's covered by known MS patents, and that's why subpixel font rendering is disabled in many Linux distributions. Amazon might need it, or some related technology, for its Kindle.
"A Microsoft representative declined to say which of its products are covered by the deal."
It must be Microsoft Linux!
--
stupid robots...
this agreement demonstrates... yet another facet of corporate control. Large corporations can cross-license. Small companies and individual entrepreneurs will continue to get squashed by patents.
There, fixed that for him.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
i'm a world-class grammar nazi/snob/whathaveyou and i have no problem with ink/pen a deal. While i dislike most verbing, this is a tried and true expression. It's value as an expression outweighs the verbing. i don't know why anyone would have a problem with it. Furthermore, in this case ink cleverly refers to Amazon's eInk product.
If i were to "ink a Kindle" where ink would mean "buy", that would be a problem.
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
"...but I imagine... probably has something to do with... they appear to..."
That's just awesome. You got +5 informative explaining how Microsoft mighht be guilty of unknown shenanigans.
Slashdot's just plain broken.
You must be real fun with police. Or in court. Or in a doctor's office. Or any of the other places they're also smart enough not to talk in certainties, like a 4 year old, until they actually are certain.
"And I say that the mere fact that you have to start a buisness at all just to make something useful is a barrier... Barriers to entry don't have to be insurmountable to be barriers..."
If you consider that a barrier... well... it's about as much a barrier as is the need for you to put on pants in the morning. Since nothing stops you from completing that task, and it's neither expensive nor time-consuming, I have to conclude that you're talking out your ass on this one.
>I wonder if people like Linus even cares about this?
Why do you care?
Linux is the head honcho of the kernel.
That's all he cares about.
Nothing wrong with that but dont go looking for something that isnt there.
His answer to any dangers to GNU-Linux (as opposed to just the kernel) is a cross between whistling by the graveyard and putting his hands on ears and going "LALALALALALALA!!" really loud.
Its three steps beyond laissez faire.
He's great at what he does but caring about such things that you describe is NOT one of them.
Again, its not a criticism as much as a warning to not waste your breath hoping for something he doesnt do.
Maybe Windows 8 will have a "one-click" install?
What then, if that secret, submarine patent is about something else entirely, or for that matter, does not even exist? For that matter, there could be several threats in play, patent based or otherwise, but anyway the main point of any such deal is to make sure the non-Microsoft party stays quiet, leaving Microsoft free to create the impression that Linux is somehow not quite legit, with no factual basis whatsoever.
We have no way of actually knowing, but it does appear that the US legal system somehow allows the kind of of behavior I suspect here as long as the actual underlying facts are not available to the public.
It doesn't even have to be a patent or a real issue at all, given the likely size of Microsoft's legal budget the threat of prolonged litigation backed up by the famous PR machine would be quite sufficient to intimidate smaller players to silence. Most of us are, after all, smaller players than Microsoft.
All idle speculation of course, but as long as they keep us in the dark about the facts of these deals, speculation will flourish.
-- That grumpy BSD guy - http://bsdly.blogspot.com/
The GPL is not patent friendly. If you distribute GPL code, you have to include royalty free patent licenses to everybody. Or something like that, pardon the vague non-lawyer language, IANAL.
Anyways, if Amazon distributes the GPL's kernel sources with the Kindle, doesn't it now include access to all Microsoft's patents too? And if it can't because Microsoft won't allow it, doesn't this revoke Amazon's license to redistribute GPL code, and thus sell the Kindle?
Infuriate left and right
Some of the posters are speculating that Amazon was infringing some patent that MS holds and that MS came after them with a devil deal.
I think it's at least possible that the opposite happened - Amazon, with it's history of patent litigation, tried to engage Microsoft on a patent issue... and MS turned around, laughed, and said "Hah! We'll squash you like a BUG. A small one. Unless...."
It's possible no money changed hands. Amazon is a name recognized by far more people than would recognize Novell or SuSE. Just the public announcement of the suggestion that a company as well-known as Amazon thought it necessary to get patent license coverage for their Linux servers from MS must have the Grand High FUDmaster at Microsoft cackling over his lunch.
how MS is allowed to continually ask the equivalent of Linux: "When did you stop beating your wife?" I assume suing for defaming an organization is not allowed, as it sure feels like a winnable case.
i'm a world-class grammar snob
The first-person, singular personal pronoun "I" is capitalized. So is the start of a sentence. Also, it's "its value", not "it's".
A snob in the sense of 2, then?
Half infuriated, half ecstatic.
On one hand, Microsoft's bloat may lend some weight should they shift momentum of their extortion efforts into the direction of others in the industry.
On the other hand, perhaps this will stack within the mile high evidence showing how software patents are pure bullshit through and through.
Considering either way, is really a resistance or lashing out with something I believe in. Politicians had better get a clue, it's only sad that they only speak currency rather than logic. So, to play their game, I'm probably going to be upping my FSF membership status. Should I ever get my hands on any one of these politicians, who make stupid decisions regarding law and technology, perhaps I'll nickname him Marcus Crassus; I'm sure I have enough gold.
Not going to support the enemies of GNU/Linux. Better to shop local anyway.
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/blogs/browse/2010/02/microsoftamazon-deal-nothing-see-here
Here's a history of Microsoft's patent extortion, told in Microsoft's own words. What's really amazing is how these companies act like Biski never happened and that software patents have value. It did and they don't.
If it were about prices or products and not patents, it could be seen as anti-competitive I think. In my view, given that copyrights/patents effectively function as a privatization of public property, (thought and ideas), for large organizations to merge these properties is akin to creating a monopoly of ideas and thoughts. If they were to include a few other large organizations and aggressively and cooperatively enforce all their intellectual property rights, they would create an unassailable monopoly on products, both new and existing. Anyone outside their covenant would have a hard time selling any technical products, as just about anything could be interpreted as infringing on some patent or the group. A monopoly created by IP law. Come to think of it, perhaps we already have some of that situation, given these groups already refrain from suing each other all the time for every single possible issue, a protection not granted to smaller groups which can't counter-sue. Or to use the proper terms, counter-attack.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/