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Is Mozilla Ubiquity Dead?

darthcamaro writes "Remember Mozilla Ubiquity? It was an effort to bring natural language commands to the Firefox browser. Now after almost two years of development and a half million downloads, the project is no longer being actively developed. Project founder Aza Raskin is now working on other projects, including Mozilla Jetpack, so Ubiquity is on the back burner. '"There is huge demand for being able to connect the Web with language — to not have to move from one site to another to complete your daily tasks," Raskin said. "And there is huge demand for anyone to be able to write small snippets of code that lets them command the Web the way they want. Ubiquity gave everyday developers a voice with how the browser and the Web works."'"

29 of 148 comments (clear)

  1. Open Source Projects by sopssa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It happens to a lot of OSS projects. Suddenly the developers interest just dies and they start doing something else. Just like in our childhood we coded some funny little game for a day (not that I didn't make some cool stuff back then :) and then started on an another project. It needs more motivation to continue some project past the starting interesting.

    1. Re:Open Source Projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      At least when [insert big company] does get this working they wont be able to patent it stop others doing it.

    2. Re:Open Source Projects by sopssa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      With closed source/proprietary projects it usually happens for different reasons, mostly income being the reason. With proprietary projects there will always be coders, and the existing coders will stay coding, because there is income involved with that. Money is a good motivator to continue doing projects you otherwise would had lost interest on.

      Great example of this is really the games. Gaming industry develops some really stunning games, and theres big corporations like EA, Activision Blizzard and Ubisoft and then theres the small indie developers and everything in between. But what about open source games? They're mediocre at best, almost always unfinished, and otherwise pretty much shitty. These are long projects, taking up to 500-2000+ men work years to finish, and the quality difference in that comes from the fact that the developers are paid to have the interest to finish the product instead of jumping to their latest new idea.

    3. Re:Open Source Projects by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes but the difference between OSS and proprietary software is that if the main OSS developers just lose interest in the project, the project can be forked/development work taken over by another part of the OSS community.

      Sure in an ideal world. In the real world, though, it just means the project stagnates and dies.

    4. Re:Open Source Projects by Thinboy00 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wesnoth isn't "shitty" nor "mediocre"

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    5. Re:Open Source Projects by lymond01 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It happens all the time in closed source projects too, you just never hear about them

      If a tree falls in the woods and I don't hear it, do I care? No. Open source is generally publicly known, especially if it is a large project, so I do feel a bit of remorse when I know a project has been abandoned by its lead.

    6. Re:Open Source Projects by Thinboy00 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If the product stagnates and dies it means no one cares about it enough to put in the effort it takes to fork and actively lead a FOSS project. Personally, I think that's a good thing because it means most FOSS is either well supported by some sort of community or else it is too marginal to bother with. It means the community serves as a litmus test for quality. If there are three active developers then maybe it won't be as good as if there are 300. Also, bear in mind that FOSS is a volunteer effort. The only reason FOSS exists is because someone went to the trouble of writing it. If it is stagnating or nonexistent and you want it, write it yourself! If you don't care enough to do so, don't whine about how no one else is either.

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    7. Re:Open Source Projects by DragonWriter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It happens to a lot of OSS projects.

      It happens a lot to closed source projects, too, though since it is more likely (in either project) to happen when a project is in a state before it is consider "ready for prime time", its a lot less visible in closed source projects, since they aren't as likely to be widely available at that stage.

    8. Re:Open Source Projects by Wizarth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree. Neither is OpenCiv.

      That said, there are a LOT of open source games that are terrible. But I wonder how many concept pitch games there are that we never see, that are terrible?

    9. Re:Open Source Projects by Winckle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Tell that to the nethack devteam.

    10. Re:Open Source Projects by sopssa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But has there been any open source games that are good at story, art, animation, music, dialog and vocal performance? Those are actually the things that are missing in them most of all. As someone here points out, there's technical problems like path finding etc too, but some of the games are technically ok (like nethack, as the previous poster mentioned). But they all lack that polished art, music and story even more.

    11. Re:Open Source Projects by Lotana · · Score: 3, Informative

      What about Wesnoth though? What's it based on?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohan:_Immortal_Sovereigns

    12. Re:Open Source Projects by Draek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Polished art, story and music Battle for Wesnoth, and to top it off it's the best turn-based tactical game ever (HoMM? bleh. KB? good, but Wesnoth is better).

      But there are huge problems towards developing story-based open source games, which Wesnoth averts mostly by making it extremely easy for a single man to create a campaign of his own: single-player games you usually play once, twice at most. Hard to keep interested in improving a game when you've already played through it a dozen times, and you know you'll have to play it a dozen more just to test the changes you're making.

      And that's, also, why there's such a plethora of great multiplayer F/OSS games out there. Warsow in particular not only looks gorgeous, it's also the best arena shooter since UT2004 in terms of gameplay and that's because, when the devs improve the game, they improve it for *them* as well, not just for everybody else.

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    13. Re:Open Source Projects by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's extremely derivative of the Warlords series of games: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warlords_(game_series)

      And for the record, since it's often mentioned in threads like this, Frozen Bubble is a total clone of Bust-A-Move: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puzzle_Bobble

      So now you know.

    14. Re:Open Source Projects by Razalhague · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Clones (mediocre or not) are another thing that isn't exclusive to open source.

  2. Ubiquitous by pitchpipe · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... the project is no longer being actively developed.

    You might even say that Ubiquity is not Ubiquitous.

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    1. Re:Ubiquitous by icebike · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You might also say that Raskin works from a different definition of "Huge Demand" than the rest of us.

      "There is huge demand for being able to connect the Web with language — to not have to move from one site to another to complete your daily tasks,"

      Ah, no, Raskin, there isn't a huge demand for this. I don't want to deal with my bank account while logged into Google, and I don't want to have every thing I do on the web done from one place.

      "And there is huge demand for anyone to be able to write small snippets of code that lets them command the Web the way they want.

      Again Wrong Wrong Wrong. Less than .002 percent of web users have even the slightest desire to command the web the way they want, and even fewer want to "write snippets of code". Its time to expand your world view beyond your hacker-cave.

      Ubiquity gave everyday developers a voice with how the browser and the Web works."

      "Everyday developers"? WTF? So finally at the end of the quote it becomes clear he was talking about 1/1000th of web users, the people who use the web for development daily, who probably managed just fine without Ubiquity.

      This project deserved to die.

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  3. In a nutshell by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Remember Mozilla Ubiquity?

    No.

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  4. Follow best practices by BhaKi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If the code written so far is well documented, there should be no problem for anyone to continue development.

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    1. Re:Follow best practices by farble1670 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      yes in theory. in practice, this what i've seen. even in a corporate environment where people are paid to maintain and enhance the old code, the new developers never quite "get it". they are able to fix bugs and add features all right, but it's done with without a vision of the overall project. the result is the code slowly loses maintainability and eventually needs to be re-written (or tossed).

      maybe this is poor engineering, but it could also just be physiological. developers are less interested in code when they do not feel ownership. coming in and learning someone else's methodology that you probably don't agree with or even like is just not fun. when developers are paid to do it, they get the job done but don't follow through with the care they would otherwise have if they wrote the code from scratch.

    2. Re:Follow best practices by Ltap · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Indeed. The healthiest open-source model seems to be to have different programmers on the development team who differ a great deal; if one has to leave, the other could take over, so that the project could be sustained through introducing new developers. But a single programmer picking up old code and trying to work through it by himself, especially something that would be as tangled a mess as this probably is.

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  5. Why are we surprised? by Ltap · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ignoring whether or not it being free software makes a difference - every software company tried its hand at it in the 90s. Their main justification for dropping it was that "the technology isn't advanced enough". It all seems to be part of an attempt to copy Star Trek's tech and use voice commands for computers. In reality, voice commands are incredibly inefficient and imprecise, and it's virtually impossible for a piece of software to try and sort through accents, dialects, and mumbling to guess at the true intent.

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  6. I could see this one coming... by Jugalator · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Not trying to be an annoying "see, I knew this" jerk, but really, this project was so far reaching and poorly defined in how much it should cover, that it was hard to even grasp what the end result should be, and thus also how to support the project. I'm not sure about others, but I have a much easier time building excitement for a project I know what the end result is supposed to be like, than something where the focus is on writing abstract documents on how the browser should more easily be able to be told what you want, and better ignore technical URL's... or something.

    Well, yeah, that's an awesome idea, and so is being able to speak to an OS in a few words, and not have to go through the annoying process of clicking on five different icons and buttons to get there.

    But it's also far reaching in scope, and not enough narrowed down. There were some concrete stuff done in it, but it felt like features sprawling in different directions, with no sense of direction. Being able to surf to Google Maps more easily, etc, but really with the extension wanting to do more. Hmm.. The article goes on with this

    While conceptually, Taskfox and Ubiquity might seem similar, Raskin noted that Taskfox is actually quite different than Ubiquity.

    "Taskfox is integrated directly into the URL bar and has a simplified grammar," Raskin said. "It's more accurate to think of Taskfox as a separate product which is Ubiquity-inspired, which has the potential to evolve towards a richer, more Ubiquity-like interface."

    Rephrased, I think Taskfox has the right idea here. Software sometimes need to evolve from something more simple, but with a well-defined feature set, and *then* into something more advanced. Or you'll get software with ill defined scope in terms of features in practice, with less motivated developers behind it. Like Windows Longhorn. Or Ubiquity.

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  7. Mozilla don't focus on getting Labs ideas out by PybusJ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Mozilla Labs has started out on some great projects but they don't seem able to make it out into wider use. What happened to Weave, it's been kicking around for years? Ubiquity, a great start with developer/hacker interest, but the ball dropped.

    I'm worried for how able Mozilla is to compete against the threat coming from Google and Chrome at the moment. Their core browser is falling behind on speed and stability and I think they'll find it hard to catch up given the size/age/complexity of the Firefox codebase compared to Chrome. Google had the opportunity to start from scratch with the knowledge of all the browser vulnerabilities in the last decade and have a much better architecture for security and stability. It's almost unfeasible for Mozilla to refactor firefox to match.

    What they do have going for them is the collection of extensions and the new ideas from Mozilla Labs; if they don't get them out to the wider audience then their competitors will copy and popularise the best of them, essentially benefiting from free R&D.

    1. Re:Mozilla don't focus on getting Labs ideas out by Killer+Orca · · Score: 2, Informative

      What happened to Weave, it's been kicking around for years?

      It's actually been updated recently; it's at the 1.01 release, but they've changed a lot of the options to customize it or at least access them. I even ditched Xmarks in favor of it because of the tab and history sync, and they're looking to add extensions in future releases.. https://mozillalabs.com/weave/

  8. Not surprised by Aladrin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At the time, I remember thinking how awesome it -could- be, but how limited it was at the moment.

    Then I realized that it was the programmer in me talking... Having to type out written commands to make magic happen? That's the Linux command line and most non-techies are horribly afraid of that.

    I can't see it happening... Some of the ideas may be used in a GUI medium instead, but the project as it was ... Well, it was pretty much doomed from the start.

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  9. Was really useful, but buggy by chetbox · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ha. I just went and read about this myself. Personally I found ubiquity really useful. I loved the way I could select a postcode, press a keyboard combo and then just type "map" to get an interactive Google Map. I especially liked the way I could subscribe to feeds of commands, most of which had a whole host of handy options. The natural language process part of it was simple, but easily good enough for the intended purpose.

    The reason I stopped using it was because new versions weren't backwards compatible and cleaning up after an update became a bit of a mess. I don't know if others had the same experience?

  10. Pity by etherlad · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Damn shame. I used it all the time to create tinyurls, to translate text on the fly, and so on. It was a handy little utility, and I was excited with the direction they wanted to go it.

    It'd be nice if they could even just do a version update so I could use it with Firefox 3.6.

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  11. Re:How does this get me more beamtime? by DarkOx · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Don't you mean the late 50s? COBOL was more or less an attempt at natural language and arguably one of the most successful ones.

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