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Is Microsoft About To Declare Patent War On Linux?
Glyn Moody writes "Horacio Gutierrez, Microsoft's Corporate Vice President and Deputy General Counsel, has just published a piece called 'Apple v. HTC: A Step Along the Path of Addressing IP Rights in Smartphones.' In it, he notes that today's smartphones are all about the 'software stack,' not the 'radio stack,' and that 'as the IP situation settles in this space and licensing takes off, we will see the patent royalties applicable to the smartphone software stack settle at a level that reflects the increasing importance software has as a portion of the overall value of the device. In the interim, though, we should expect continued activity.' That 'activity' obviously means lawsuits against those producing those software stacks, and Gutierrez seems to be hinting strongly that Microsoft intends to join in. So where does that leave all the Linux-based stacks such as the increasingly-popular Android? Is this just a clever way for Microsoft to start a patent war on Linux without appearing to do so?"
What a complete piece of FUD article. Nowhere in the original post he say anything about Linux or using this to attack Linux or Open Source in general. In fact, this is a guy who has previously wrote this about Microsoft open sourcing:
Some observers question how a company can contribute to open source projects while, at the same time, insisting on respect of its intellectual property rights by its competitors. In fact, these two things are not inconsistent, and striking a balance between them is one of the key things every commercial technology company must do in order to compete effectively in a mixed source world.
Yeah, it really seems like his out there to destroy Linux.
Did the article writer also forget that Microsoft does Windows Mobile? He says " one that doesn't even involve Microsoft directly.". How does mobile market not concern Microsoft directly when it's making Windows Mobile, an OS that HTC has always been it's flagship manufacturer.
Then completely out of context he quotes Bill Gates words from 1976, 34 years ago, how programmers should be paid for their work instead of doing everything for free. Did he just completely ignore how well funded Linux and some other OSS projects actually are? Mozilla alone brings in $80 million a year.
It's not about destroying Linux, it's about making some sense to patent fights in mobile markets.
WTF?
I guess open source developers need to get their ideas, no matter how primitive, into the various open source repositories so that there is ample prior art to defend with.
Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
I need pop corn.
The whole FiaSCO deal zombie is dying soon and now Microsoft loads the foot gun.
I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
If the software patents are the issue, then simply don't publish in the US. Considering the state of the mobile market in the US, it's not like it's a breeding ground for new and innovative features
So what? That doesn't mean that software patents are any more important than hardware patents. Actually, quite the opposite, even ignoring the standard 'software patents suck' thing, all that fancy software is worthless if it doesn't have nice radio hardware to run on....
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
well, almost:
http://www.cracked.com/article_18458_6-subtle-ways-news-media-disguises-bullshit-as-fact.html
... the patent war has
This isn't about Linux. It's about Google. Google could be using a closed-source kernel, and Apple would still be suing them, with Microsoft quietly cheering.
The second Apple or Microsoft started a patent war with Linux someone would in their camp would utter the same words Isoroku Yamamoto did right after attacking Pearl Harbor in World War II.
Isoroku Yamamoto: I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.
Software patents have been promoting this type of activity, and it's doing way more harm than good. It's undermining fair competition. It's time we get rid of software patents once and for all. I'm rooting for the Supreme Court to do just this. http://members.apex-internet.com/sa/windowslinux
WILL MICROSOFT LAUNCH A PATENT PEARL HARBOR AGAINST LINUX?
Article text, in 10-point Times New Roman: "No, not really."
Wow, even the /. lameness filter thinks that's too much shouting.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Take a good look at the hostility that Apple is getting for its store/SDK policies and now it's patent war with HTC. They have an entrenched product that is a 800lb gorilla in market share and arguably quality, compared to the embryonic lemur you call Windows Phone 7 (no apps, no phones shipping it yet). If you want to steal from Apple and the Android community, the only way is to be magnanimous toward developers of all stripes so that Windows Phone 7 can get traction with apps.
Calling it a "war" is totally incorrect. It's nothing more than a bunch of lawyers getting rich, while consumers and even the companies hiring the lawyers get fucked, regardless of who "wins" the legal challenges.
My uncle was in Vietnam. He got shot in the scrotum. That's war. Will Microsoft lose their proverbial scrotum in your "war" here? No, of course not. Will Google? No. Will Apple? No.
the entire generation of those who had done evil in the sight of the DOJ is destroyed.
Msft already tried to fight a proxy war with linux through SCO and lost. Msft lawyers are smart enough to know that they will hurt themselves if they sue linux businesses. They are obviously after Google, again msft has to resort to ugly tactics to push bad products down consumers throats.
looks interesting
Mississauga | Toronto Web Design
So, after all the waiting, will this be the year of Linux on the judge's desktop!?
1...2...3...4, I declare a patent war! :)
Microsoft is known for its slowness. It won't move to a market until it's become a proven source of money. Then it moves in and copies the most successful patterns while using its weight to push the others aside.
It's such a typical pattern it's utterly boring.
Obviously Linux holds the supremacy in the mobile world, and also obviously Microsoft makes its move into the market. The result is also obvious.
Anyway, as an Apple supporter, the moment I will see Apple side with M$ in this area I will ditch them in the first trashcan I see.
Old MSFT slogan.
In the late 1800's, the US was a hotbed of innovation, in part because US companies were a little cavalier about Intellectual Property law, especially when it came to ripping off foreign IP. Sounds a lot like China and the far east today. Right now, the products I find on sites like brando.com are both cooler and cheaper than what I find on Amazon and Thinkgeek, unless they are the same ones. But there are a lot of items I can find from asian based sites that I can't find on western retail sites. The innovation center of gravity is shifting across the Pacific. Where Japan failed with force of arms, China is bringing about the Asian Co-prosperity sphere through commerce.
Here's what I have already on them:
swpat.org is a publicly editable wiki, help welcome.
Please help publicise swpat.org - the software patents wiki
This is less about Linux and more about going after Google's flank. They don't even have to actually go to court to stir up enough FUD to give developers and implementers second thoughts. Who wants to be tied to a product line that may spend years mired in court? While the MS lawyers may have a hard on for the idea, the corporate leaders should think long and hard about taking that approach. A lingering court case would not only takes some wind out of Google's sails, but stop MS in their tracks too. They would do better to concentrate on improving Azure.
"I'm not a quack, I'm a mad scientist! There's a difference." - Dr. Cockroach
Linux is not a giant. Nothing that anyone does is going to change that any time soon.
Depends on your definition. It runs on vastly more devices than Microsoft or Apple. The fact that most of them aren't PCs may have gone over your head isn't going to change that anytime soon.
Besides, it's rather apparent that the author was probably referring to either IBM or Google as the sleeping giant (or perhaps Nokia, who still remain predominant in cell phone markets outside of the rather provincial and self-absorbed United States), rather than the operating system both happen to have a significant investment in Linux, and are prepared to defend with their own mammoth portfolio of patents (both legitimate and software). SCO should be a lesson to anyone willing to be Microsoft's proxy, and I wouldn't be overly suprised if IBM and/or Google decided it was time to stop batting away Microsoft's proxies and go after the source of the rot itself.
Now that Apple has armed the nukes, all bets are off...at least until the supreme court deals software patents the death-blow they (and those who litigate with them) so richly deserve. Should be entertaining...and with even a sliver of commen sense, most satisfying in its outcome.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
What good is a smart phone without the ability to make phone calls? That's the problem with Apple - they took the radio for granted and Nokia said bzzt - try again.
The irony is MS can cheer Apple on and not fear anything because they cross licensed most of this stuff in the settlement to the look and feel lawsuit.
Its kind of a sad mess when you literally can't switch on your phone without paying up (because that method is patented too).
So, after all the waiting, will this be the year of Linux on the judge's desktop!?
Don't know what you're waiting for. Those of us with even a modicum of technical savvy have been running Linux on our desktop for years, and remain quite happy doing so. There is in many people's experience nothing that runs on Microsoft for which there isn't an adequate, and often better, free alternative.
Just because you're behind the curve doesn't mean everyone is.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Best treatment of this story, beats the cracked article or anything else I've seen, IMHO.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
MS guy says "Open innovation is only possible through the licensing of third party IP rights" - the last 400 years of scientific progress would tend to refute this
SURELY NOT!!!!!
"What a complete piece of FUD article. Nowhere in the original post he say anything about Linux or using this to attack Linux or Open Source in general. In fact, this is a guy who has previously wrote this about Microsoft open sourcing:"
..
."
"In discussing all of this with Gutierrez, I brought up the company's continual FUD campaign, where it goes to the press to wave that pointy stick around, in announcing that Linux violates over 200 Microsoft patents. Gutierrez noted that he was among the Microsoft execs who had made those statements, and he stood by them
This is not a case of some accidental, unknowing infringement... There is an overwhelming number of patents being infringed
That said, the likelyhood of Microsoft going head-to-head in an IP war with Linux would be very damaging to Microsoft. The net result might be that the USPO would be brought into the fray and the USPO prior art decisions questioned. Microsoft stands to lose a lot more than it might gain if it engages in this level of conflict.
Lastly, with the recent revelation of high acceptance of iPhone usage at Microsoft, they might end up in fratricide!
*** Don't be dull.***
Patent wars and the global copyright delusion will definitely be the cause of the coming self-destruction of all industries, from crops to software. From babies to shoes.
Everyone will sue the hell out of each other, counter-sue, counter-counter sue, question their commercial preference, suggest to settle, note to go bankrupt, and utter nonsensical statements involving plankton. Until the government responds to the the random lawsuits and treats to ban the opposing sides, unless words of praise for fishfood are expressed.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Was Heath Ledger financing a street war in the Phillipines??
http://www.theonion.com/content/magazine/was_heath_ledger_financing_a
From TFA
mobile phones have been around since the 1970s,...
The first commersial mobile phone system was in full use in 1956 in Stockholm.
... and have been common devices since the 1990s, when so-called 2G mobile phones (small handheld phones with similar form factors to what we see today) came on the market.
You mean since early 80's when small hand held phones with similar form factors to what we see today became common in Scandinavia with the NMT system.
Why do Americans allways assume that nothing happens until it hits USA, usually decades after the rest of the world.
So MS is saying certain types of patents should be held up when other types should not? They can't possibly have a cogent argument for that type of logic.
The headline should read, "Is Microsoft about to conjure up a hellstorm of backlash and animosity on themselves?" The answer is No.
With MP3, the patent holders waited until the use became main stream, and then sued for patents and royalties.
If that's the strategy, don't patent holders run the risk of having their claims estopped by laches?
Must be Thursday.
What I want to know is this: when is Microsoft going to pay everyone for all the IP they've stolen. borrowed, and cheated others out of?
Remember the MSIE screwjob they did to the original developers? That they'd give the developers they licensed it from a cut of the profits from sales, then proceeded to GIVE it away, getting MSIE nearly for free when they had NO browser to compete against Mozilla, Netscape, et al
Remember when MSIE needed a TCP/IP stack and had nothing to compete against trumpet, sun, and so forth? What did they do? Copy & paste from BSD. Since they recognize that hobbiests cannot do all that work for nothing, when are they going to pay the BSD developers for the BSD sockets stack that became winsock?
When are they going to pay the Stacker folks what they really deserve, rather than the pittance the courts awarded? Shouldn't they (Microsoft) have been fined $750,000 per unit shipped since it was copyright infringement at its most blatent level, and distributed for commercial use?
Funny how MS loves to talk about IP when they perceive the fact that they're past their peak, but when it comes to others' IP, the value of IP suddenly diminishes.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
There is a nuanced statement in big business people who suggest, as he did, that open source and IP are not inconsistent... particularly, that open source licensing is all fine and dandy because it eventually lures people into a patent trap. They'll wield their "intellectual capital" one way or another. A copyright does not grant patent licenses, so you can be free to distribute and modify your OSS software, right up until someone claims a patent violation (and that someone need not have anything to do with the development lineage of the software). This returns power to the large corporate entities with patent war chests, and leaves individual developers and users screwed but for the grace of these corporations.
If software is patentable, it should not be copyrightable, and vice versa. A free software movement, who wants to empower the population with freedom to control and modify their own tools, would want a viral license to force rights based on those patents or copyrights into the commons. What I am not clear on is whether GPLv3 is fully a "public patent license" yet. A patent-aware free software license would need to grant full rights to exercise patents embodied in the version of software released by an author; e.g. you could not sue a user of this software for violating any patent you own or later own that is embodied in the version you released (whether in code you wrote yourself, or in upstream code you took and modified to make the release). You could at most sue downstream users who use a derived version which was modified by some other unlicensed author to embody a patent that wasn't embodied in your release. Or a more commons friendly license would prevent suing users, and only allow suing those unlicensed authors to block distribution of the modified version. But a fully commons friendly license would enter every participant into a full patent sharing agreement: you cannot sue any other member of the commons for violations of any of your software patents, nor can you be sued by them, and commons membership is defined irrevocably by having released or used software released under this patent-commons license.
I'm a Linux user. The biggest threat to Linux users from the imaginary property brigade is the ExFAT file system. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exfat) How long until this FS is the default/required on mobile devices? I've been hoping to see the FAT32 file system die for almost ten years now, but we don't need something even worse replacing it.
Because of the monopoly and their outdated crap, I have to endure renaming hundreds of files, (stripping out special characters) to load them on my mobile devices. I find this pathetic and disgusting. Even though there are better FS's, the monopoly refuses to support them, so the market refuses them too.
It must be nice to sit in a position where you can force an inferior filesystem on people, whilst demanding additional funds from those who just want to communicate with their own property.
That is what innovation is all about, folks.
Namely the "secrets" of the Masonic Lodge. Which turned out to be nothing more than a harmless, rather silly, initiation ritual and not secret at all. In fact, the Masons cooperated fully with the filming of the show.
This ain't rocket surgery.
If Microsoft were to attack Linux, development of some very prominent open source products would cease on the Windows platform.
This would do Microsoft enormous damage, and irritate a very significant number of Microsoft customers very severely.
The answer I submitted to FSF last time MS made noise like this was a grand fund raising of a billion dollars war chest to fight the patents.
We can help MS or any idiot corporation pour away their money on patent litigation and match it dollar for dollar - only our money will be collected precisely for that purpose, and their share holders will be cursing them for every dollar that vanishes.
The plan is that all open-source supporting companies, groups, agencies can become fund-members through which fans and supporters donate money.
Did you install Ubuntu for someone? Ask them for $10 and explain why. Donate the $10 to the fund via your local fund-member.
Does your company use open source software and the authors won't take any money? (I'm looking at the squid guys here - it's hard to donate to them, I'm told) Then donate to the patent war chest.
Did you just want to draw attention to the injustice? Sell open-source-software CDs or badges or mugs or tshirts talking about it.
Run a switch-to-linux campaign where you switch 1,000 people to linux all in one go with an automated install. Thats newsworthy and will raise $10,000
The many and various ideas that individuals will come up with will be great and newsworthy in their own right.
All funds are donated via fund-member organizations, who also benefit directly because fund-member organizations receive from the fund ALL of the interest on the funds donated via them, and money spent is taken in equal proportion to the fund holding.
For example, if a billion dollars is raised and your Linux User Group donated $10,000; and if half a billion dollars is spent, then your groups holding is down to $5,000 and you get interest on that while it remains.
The other side is that the raising of the funds is a very good grassroots way to spread the word, one that cannot be matched by commercial advertising, and any attempt will generate a lot of media commentary.
A reputable company with a good history like FSF or EFF would have to be trustee of the fund.
So it has 3 wins:
1. raises lots of cash whose only purpose is to waste all of the assets of any patent litigator, or lobby lawmakers
2. supports open-source type organizations who raise money with income from interest
3. makes use of the brains of the masses to communicate the problem and raise the money
Sam
blog.sam.liddicott.com
Microsoft is going the way of SCO. When their business started to crumble, they stopped innovating and started suing. Certain death of the company is at the end of that route.
They are not.
Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
Either they start litigating or they do not. No court of law gives a damn about a random blog post unless they actually, like _go_ to a court.
Press releases don't really hurt in that regard (they can create fear though. Congratulations on falling for that)
interpreting those bytes is not patentable.
What is LZW or H.264 other than a method of "interpreting those bytes"? If Apple applies for a U.S. patent on rotating or resizing objects by the relative motions of two fingers touching that object, and USPTO can't find any prior art, then Apple can attack U.S. phone makers and the U.S. divisions of foreign phone makers with this patent.
"It's not about destroying Linux, it's about making some sense to patent fights in mobile markets."
For legal news and linux I use groklaw (dot) net, and there is nothing about it listed there.
Uh, Linux geek since 1999.
disclaimer, for amusement purposes and academic research only. Always check with your hair dresser or bartender or other qualified trained licensed professional on technical and legal subjects:
materials
one small piece of pvc tubing, adequate diameter (and I forget right now what it is, get a ruler measure it yourself, it depends on what you get for the screw in adapter, has to fit snug over that) about 3 to 4 inches long
one edison socket female plug adapter
one cheap (and short) string of off season on sale white LED Christmas tree lights
some double sided sticky tape
optional rubber band
steps
Remove from your table lamp the evile incandescent politically incorrect light bulb, or lame fluorescent you got faked out into buying previously
screw in plug adapter
put double sided tape around your pvc pipe section
Wrap Christmas lights around the pipe, with the male plug end loose. Try to get a nice even spread with the way the lights are pointing. The male plug end comes out at the top of the wrap, so start with the farthest away lights on the string for your wrapping.
Stuff male plug down the tube until it comes out the bottom, just enough to give you enough slack to work the next step
Insert plug into adapter.
Squish pvc pipe-light down over the adapter in the lamp, retrieving excess cord, which remains inside the tubing. You may or may not be able to fit it all in there, if some sticks out, just use a rubber band to fix it in place
turn on lamp
profit
cost should be ~around ten bucks~ total, not $89.99 or some ridiculous price like that
my apologies, lost track of my tabs. This is supposed to go in the toshiba incandescent light bulb thread. Oh well, once in awhile you just miss...
Six weeks ago, this story was posted on Slashdot: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/02/03/1528242/MPEG-LA-Extends-H264-Royalty-Free-Period. Seemingly indicating that six more years of baiting were required to get all content providers thorougly hooked on H.264 before tightening the thumbscrews.
To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
I'm not sure how that would work. Microsoft has yet to come up with a single patent infringed by Linux.
Apple's patents--the ones Apple is asserting against HTC and Nokia--however, cover a lot of Microsoft's libraries, including their .NET platform. And the way things have been going for Microsoft, they don't seem to be able to defend against such lawsuits.
You people are only happy believers in OSS when you have a Satan.
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.
We are now entering phase 3...
Microsoft will be looking very carefully at the Apple vs HTC lawsuit for the simple reason that many Microsoft phones have also been named in the suit. Everyone assumes that it is just the android phones that apple are working to attack. The reality is that HTC have put many of their own custom modifications on Windows Mobile making it more useful and user-friendly.. Particularly around the touch screen area. There are some features of windows mobile which are also on the list and are not directly HTC's problem... I do not know if they got licensed by MS from apple or not!.
Android uses a modified Linux kernel. The stuff on top of that is Google stuff, not Linux stuff, with Java on top--but a Googleated Java. I suspect that anyone going after Android with patents will go after patents covering the Google parts, not the Linux kernel parts.
Anyone knows any options?
I don't have an account with Google but if you do check out Orkut. From what other slashdotters have posted it has some tech forums.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
MS management is smart enough not to (they are also smart enough to keep using the FUD to scare people, this is what I mean by unethical) and MS shareholders will never allow it as it will be an expensive and drawn out court case (al a SCO) which the chances of winning are dubious at best.
Something I've wondered is if it's possible, I don't know whether it is or not, why don't Linux backers file a lawsuit against MS. Say IBM wants to show businesses that they can safely use Linux, IBM then sues MS to reveal what patents Linux violates that MS holds.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
There is no patent system equivalent to "trademark dilution" whereby lack of enforcement can jeopardise validity. In fact the longer the patent troll--er...holder--waits to litigate the more dramatic the impact.
But there is the Doctrine of Laches.
"Based on the maxim that equity aids the vigilant and not those who procrastinate regarding their rights; Neglect to assert a right or claim that, together with lapse of time and other circumstances, prejudices an adverse party. Neglecting to do what should or could, have been done to assert a claim or right for an unreasonable and unjustified time causing disadvantage to another."
Now I don't know whether it can be used as a defense if Microsoft were to finally sue.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
He's actually a highly advanced A.I. bot that is designed to make Linux look like it is the hobby of insane cult members.
I have a hard time seeing how an unchallengeable government is desirable, even with a supporting quote from Jefferson.
That's why Thomas Jefferson wanted a small government. Small governments don't have much power.
As for the corporate aristocracy, they don't need to challenge government, they just buy it. Then they buy laws and regulations that reduce if not eliminate new competitors.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Just draw a pentagram with your mouse to reveal it. See now you can't say there is a bias. Oh but it only works during certain times. But yes Slashdot supports the poor wittle billion dollar underdog Apple to that other billion dollar corporation. Sounds retarded? Yes, yes it is. www.jerkfaceplayhouse.com
I keep pointing out there is only APPLE menu on the left
Your left is different than mine then, mine has Linux too. But I have often wondered why there isn't a Microsoft section.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?