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Full ACTA Leak Online

An anonymous reader writes "Following months of small Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement leaks, the full consolidated ACTA text has now been posted online. The consolidated text provides a clear indication of how the negotiations have altered earlier proposals (see this post for links to the early leaks) as well as the first look at several other ACTA elements. For example, last spring it was revealed that several countries had proposed including a de minimus provision to counter fears that the border measures chapter would lead to iPod searching border guards. The leak shows there are four proposals on the table."

60 of 201 comments (clear)

  1. Short summary of the treaty by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Funny

    All your files are belong to us.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    1. Re:Short summary of the treaty by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Informative

      If we, as Americans, had a lick of sense, we would stop buying things made in China, Pakistan, India, etc. Everything made in China, and half of everything made in the rest of the third world is junk. Hell, half of what comes from China is actually deadly. But, we keep buying. DUHHH!!!

      That would be sensible if we weren't in the worst recession since the great depression. Nobody has as much money as they used to; most of us are just getting by, people are losing their jobs, etc. The choice is third world junk or nothing.

    2. Re:Short summary of the treaty by oldspewey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The choice is third world junk or nothing.

      I've found that in some cases, the "nothing" is actually the better alternative here. Rather than buying a cheap piece of crap that I can barely afford right now, I make a conscious decision to hold off and simply do without for a few months or maybe even forever. It's not always easy, but it brings a remarkable sense of peace when you figure out a way to be okay with less.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    3. Re:Short summary of the treaty by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So the solution to the recession is to send what money you do have to another country?

      The middle class can't solve the recession, only the rich 5% who control 95% of the wealth can do that. The Waltons choose where your goods come from, as do those who own Best Buy, Target, etc.

      I'm too old to tilt at windmills. I leave that to the younger folks; I've tilted at anough windmillls in my life to know that resistance is futile.

    4. Re:Short summary of the treaty by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, the US will be the ones that lose the most when ACTA gets enacted.

      Let's look at how copyright is enforced (or not). You will notice that in countries like the USA, the EU countries, Australia, Japan, in short, every country that doesn't really have any real problems, you have pretty good copyright and IP enforcement (good from the IP holders perspective). You don't really have a lot of power to get your IP enforced in countries that either have real problems (like, say, most countries ending in -stan) or countries that actually benefit from pretty much ignoring IP laws altogether (like, say, China).

      Do you think that will change when ACTA gets ratified?

      The US will have to enforce the IP of those countries. And they will, because these countries can and of course will prod them to. Can you imagine getting a DMCA takedown notice from China because they claim the rights to all film shot by a chinese citizen, and that dissident happens to be one? Think that's impossible?

      In return you get zip, nada, rien from China. Yes, they'll sign it and yes, they'll even pay lip service to it. Copying is still sky high? Boo hoo. We are really sorry. We will even stage a token sting. And even punish the guy(s) we catch to the utmost extent. Want him hanged? No problem, think we care or what? Satisfied? Ok, now buzz off.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Short summary of the treaty by shentino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That doesn't change the fact that *classifying* the sucker on grounds of national security is a bunch of bullshit.

  2. http://en.swpat.org/wiki/201001_acta.pdf_as_text by ciaran_o_riordan · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://en.swpat.org/wiki/201001_acta.pdf_as_text

    I'm typing up the whole thing, for easier reading, searching, copying

  3. Capable? by symes · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is the idea that all border guards will be able to easily discriminate the legality of content even if they were allowed access. Seriously, would I have to carry receipts, license docs, original packaging and so forth?

    1. Re:Capable? by HungryHobo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      no no.

      all your content should of course be DRM'd.
      No need for receipts then.

      (who wants to bet someone actually proposed this at some point)

    2. Re:Capable? by Jenming · · Score: 2, Informative

      Section 2 Options 1,2,3 state that personal baggage of a non-commercial nature do not need to be searched.

      Later in that section the only things Border Guards would have control over are items where they have been provided with accurate enough descriptions in order to identify them.

      It doesn't look to me that this guards searching your iPod for illegal mp3s. Rather I think this is a truck full of burned DVDs, knockoff designer items, etc.

      --
      Morpheus, God of Dreams.
    3. Re:Capable? by geegel · · Score: 3, Informative

      No you wouldn't. Usually I'd say RTFA, but given the size of the thing, it would be a bit inappropriate.

      Please look over Section 2 (all the options have a similar provision)

      Where a traveler's personal baggage contains trademark goods or copyright materials of a non-commercial nature within the limits of the duty-free allowance {Aus: or where the copyright materials or trademark goods are sent in small consignments} and there are no material indications to suggest the goods are part of commercial traffic, Parties may consider such goods to be outside the scope of this Agreement.]

      --
      right...
    4. Re:Capable? by Bob9113 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It is the idea that all border guards will be able to easily discriminate the legality of content

      "Article 2.7: Ex-Officio Action" [presenting just the US version here]

      "1. Each party shall provide that its customs authorities may act upon their own initiative, to suspend the release of ... suspected pirated copyright goods..."

      The content need not be illegal (nor easily discriminated as such), the guard merely needs to posit suspicion.

    5. Re:Capable? by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Parties may consider such goods to be outside the scope of this Agreement

      "may consider" doesn't sound legally binding.
      If the treaty doesn't explicitly say "don't do XYZ" or "you can only do XYZ" then it'll get used to the full letter of the law.
      That's usually how these things go.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
  4. Origin of the file (kinda) by kemenaran · · Score: 5, Informative

    By the way, the file was released by the french association "La quadrature du Net", which is quite active as a defender of Net freedom and neutrality in France (they fought against HADOPI and the LOOPSI-pedo-filtering-and-blocking laws).

    I don't know if they got the file themselves or if they just released it.

    1. Re:Origin of the file (kinda) by FriendlyLurker · · Score: 4, Informative
      Link: http://www.laquadrature.net/ They also have a great political memory section plus current news:

      Brussels, March 22nd, 2010 - With the current debates surrounding the Gallo Report on "Intellectual Property Rights" (IPR) enforcement1 and rumours about an imminent revival of the IPR criminal enforcement directive (IPRED2), a holy war is taking place in the European Parliament. Members of the Parliament are being flooded with false figures and statistics from the entertainment industries' intensive lobbying. They are also being heavily pressured by the French authorities.

  5. Re:http://en.swpat.org/wiki/201001_acta.pdf_as_tex by Paul+server+guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    http://en.swpat.org/wiki/201001_acta.pdf_as_text

    I'm typing up the whole thing, for easier reading, searching, copying

    Cool, Thank you. - And yes, please keep all of the original errors and typos, Law droids have all sorts of fun with those. "For lack of a comma the land was lost" and all of that..

    --
    Your Moon, Your Mission, Get involved! http://www.openluna.org
  6. One Small Leap by sonicmerlin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm just happy *someone*, *somewhere* had enough moral integrity to defy their corporate-led masters.

  7. Re:Canada by Ironhandx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Modded off topic, too bad theres not a -1 Wrong moderation.

    Back on topic: There are SOME decent provisions in the ACTA, however on the whole the entire thing needs to be torn up and burned. Start over with something reasonable and above board rather than having all this secrecy surrounding it. Even with leaks we can't trust our governments to continue in this despicable fashion.

  8. Re:Full Consolidated? by Cimexus · · Score: 5, Informative

    As I understand it, it can be both.

    Full = the entirety of it (i.e. not missing any sections)

    Consolidated = in one piece, with up to date edits and amendments included.

    The latter is typically used with legislation that undergoes amendment. You have the amendment itself, which says thing like "in section 3, omit the words blah and replace with blah" or "section 82(b) is hereby repealed". The amendment is what gets passed, and either a ~consolidated~ version of the full legislation is made (with the changes from the amendment effected), or it's not, and you have to read the original text + the amendment ~together~ to get the full meaning.

    So in this case we have the consolidated version (no reference to external modifying documents needed), which is also the full text.

  9. Re:http://en.swpat.org/wiki/201001_acta.pdf_as_tex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The only reason to ever draft laws in anything but plain-text is obfuscation. I'm sick of trying to read the actual text of legislation and only finding PDFs of scanned images of typewritten papers. Seriously, who the fuck still uses a typewriter? All legislation should be written in .txt files, and placed in a web-accessible revision control system. That way, it becomes trivial to discover who is responsible for each and every line of treachery.

  10. Mirrors, in case it's slashdotted by mariushm · · Score: 4, Informative
  11. Re:http://en.swpat.org/wiki/201001_acta.pdf_as_tex by Abstrackt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I guess the quality of the scan is too poor and the language/typography too complex for decent OCR recognition.

    Wouldn't it be possible to do distributed proofreading of the OCRd text like they do for Project Gutenberg?

    --
    They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
  12. Am I reading this right? by Rivalz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    On page 6, article 2.3 paragraph 2: Where it says materials and implements does that mean if i use a infringing line of code or part to make a product like a Ferrari, then the whole item can possibly be forfeited?

    1. Re:Am I reading this right? by HungryHobo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      if it's brutal enough I might not be against this one :D
      Some Microsoft programmer grabs a small chunk of GPLed code and well...
      But it probably doesn't mean that since that would be the most dangerous to companies which create large monolithic expensive projects.

    2. Re:Am I reading this right? by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As I read this, not only the product in violation, but also the means of production which are predominantly used to produce the product in question can be forfeited. This is not exactly new, at least in the area of patents. If you build a machine the primary purpose of which is producing something that is patented by someone else, you are indirectly violating that patent. The weird thing is that every other paragraph of this article contains the provision "at the conclusion of civil judicial proceedings", which is missing here.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
  13. Re:Speaking of leaked treachery... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you're referring to the health care bill, it went online last Thursday at the latest, and he signed the bill on Tuesday. That's five days on my calendar.

    I just thought you'd want to be accurate.

  14. Re:iPod searching border guards? by BlackCreek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What is the exact problem that would be solved by permitting border control staff to rummage through peoples private data?

    The "problem" of a citizen's privacy. Or at least the "problem" of a citizen's perception of having the right to any privacy. I think that is the "problem" they are aiming to solve.

  15. Will Someone Please!!!? by Pitawg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Someone with some music talent should put out a song with the text of the agreement used as lyrics, and charge the negotiators with international copyright infringement and distribution! NOW!

  16. Re:iPod searching border guards? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Border guards are doing well to find their dick with both hands

    Man, I've traveled in parts of Eastern Europe and the Balkans where the border guards are fucking animals.

    The last time I traveled from Sutomore to Sarejevo by car it was less bad, but they still seem to be actively recruiting sociopaths.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  17. Re:http://en.swpat.org/wiki/201001_acta.pdf_as_tex by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Searchable text mirror: http://www.exstatic.org.nyud.net:8080/201001_acta.pdf_as_text.html

    Rehosted on my website and then put into the nyud system, should be able to handle it.
    I just hate hotfile and rapidshare type sites. No I don't want to wait 30 seconds or become a premium member.

  18. PETITION EU PARLIAMENT - NOW ! by unity100 · · Score: 5, Informative

    https://www.secure.europarl.europa.eu/parliament/public/petition/secured/submit.do?language=EN

    if you are living in an Eu member country, Eu member candidate country, or a resident of an Eu member country, or working for a company that has its quarters in an Eu member country, you have the right to petition European Parliament.

    This is not your ordinary online petition page - this is an official petition page, petitions of which are each processed by real bureaucrats and acted upon, if you give your credentials correctly. (Name surname and so on). Its serious shit.

    As of this moment, the affiliates of american media cartels are flooding Eu parliament members with the falsified and baseless statistics they have been using to fool the senators in united states. Eu parliament members are generally much more informed than u.s. senators, however it is much better not to leave anything to chance.

    So, if you fulfill any of the above conditions, you should fill a petition urging European Parliament to side with the people rather than the corporate interests, and you should inform them about the falsified statistics that media cartels are using. If you have any links to the various realistic statistics that were made by independent organizations, you can also forward the information to them. (like the p2p research done in netherlands a while ago).

    Eu parliament already basically blocked some draconian items in the acta treaty. they did it with great majority. so they DO listen and heed people. If Eu parliament shoots acta down totally, then there is no way in hell that it can come into being, because since china and russia would never accept and enforce it, (and noone can force them to do so), if you add europe to that it basically makes approx 4/7th of world population.

    Go for it. time is now.

    1. Re:PETITION EU PARLIAMENT - NOW ! by Spyware23 · · Score: 4, Informative

      This works, people. I've used the EU parliament's petition page before (regarding pricing issues with Valve) and I got a three-page semi-personal response. Like OP says, take the time to fill out a petition!

  19. This is why you need version control on laws by jonaskoelker · · Score: 3, Funny

    You have the amendment itself, which says thing like "in section 3, omit the words blah and replace with blah" or "section 82(b) is hereby repealed".

    If you squint hard enough and replace the arbitrary words with intuitively selected symbols (plus, minus, at, comma), it looks almost like...

    A diff.

    So... a consolidated version is one with... all patches applied? Like git checkout HEAD?

    And they have this cumbersome process automated? Why, we programmers should do that too! It would save lots of effort :)

    1. Re:This is why you need version control on laws by DragonWriter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But then they'd only need half as many politicians to accomplish the task.

      Actually, no. It wouldn't affect the number of politicians needed. What it would reduce is the depth of analytical staff needed to comprehend laws, which would then shift the balance of power away from groups with lots of money to spend on policy in a particular area, because then they wouldn't be as easily able to mislead as to what legislation would actually do.

  20. Re:http://en.swpat.org/wiki/201001_acta.pdf_as_tex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    You are not the only one, the telecomix/werebuild cluster has started up a transcription effort together with la Quadrature at this faxpad as well. The finished pages are available at the wiki.

    In thruth, it is almost finished, with only about 5-10 pages left.

  21. Injunctions against "intermediaries" by SwedishPenguin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, it's great to know what our corrupt EU politicians over here have been up to. EU citizens: remember, this is what your government ministers have agreed to, it's not just some faceless EU bureaucracy. Hold them responsible for their actions in the EU, don't let them hide behind the bureaucracy.

    Article 2.x, option 2 (EU)
    "Each party shall ensure that, where a judicial decision is taken finding infringement of an intellectual property right, the judicial authorities may issue against the infringer an injunction aimed at prohibiting the continuation of the infringement. The parties shall also ensure that right holders are in a position to apply for an injunction against intermediaries whose services are used by the third party to infringe an intellectual property right."

    1. Re:Injunctions against "intermediaries" by Hurricane78 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, you are loud, but typically for loud people, not very well informed and ignorant of that fact.

      Yes, they did. but you omitted that the current situation is, that the EU rejects ACTA as a whole. There even was an article here on Slashdot about it.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    2. Re:Injunctions against "intermediaries" by unity100 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The "EU as a whole" did not reject ACTA, the European Parliament did. The council of ministers and the commission are the ones propagating ACTA, and the ones involved in the negotiations. Unfortunately, the European Parliament has a tendency to fold when it come down to it, and the council of ministers usually wins. The council of ministers is composed of national government ministers. The national governments are however rarely held responsible for any of the decisions of the council of ministers, hell most people probably have no idea what the council of ministers is. That needs to change.

      dear swedish penguin,

      as of last year, european parliament has the power to ratify any treaty that is made by european commission, including ALl the ministers and bureaucrats and whatnot. furthermore, no treaty, decision can come into being without being ratified by european parliament. AND european parliament can also cancel treaties made prior to acquiring that power. (that was the power they used to cancel SWIFT agreement in which bush&co coerced europe into disclosing bank transfer details europeans did with americans to us government).

      with the latest resolution, Eu parliament already blocked numerous stuff from the acta treaty. isp liability, 3strikes, internet connection severance without court decision etc etc. because of that, the countries whose ministers would accept acta would have to face a dilemma ; either secede from european union, or refuse the treaty.

      but that doesnt mean we are in the clear yet. we need to push hard.

  22. Re:iPod searching border guards? by Comboman · · Score: 3, Informative

    Border guards have always had the right to dig through your luggage and look at your underwear, even strip search you if you look at them the wrong way. How is there ANY expectation of privacy at a border crossing?

    --
    Support Right To Repair Legislation.
  23. Re:Safe Harbor Provisions by guruevi · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It also circumvents current laws that most countries have regarding home copies (either subsidized through taxes levied on blank media) and fair use by stating that all copies (regardless of commercial gain) are 'illegal'.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  24. Re:Safe Harbor Provisions by Runaway1956 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Most concerning to all of us should be, the fact that a separate group of "rights" holders are being defined, and that governments are going to sign away authority and sovereignty to those "rights" holders.

    You think you've seen some crazy shit in the past? Just wait until half the nations on earth are subject to the whims of some greedy sumbitch with a blockbuster movie or two to his name.

    Understand that a treaty supersedes a nation's sovereignty - in effect, you've signed away the right to abjudicate disagreements according to your own law. Those "rights" holders are attempting to dictate to Moscow, Washington, London, and Beijing, just how "intellectual property" will be handled in the future.

    Farewell, Public Domain. From now on, it will all be pubic domain, because those "rights" holders will be sticking it to all of us.

    --
    "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  25. Re:Speaking of leaked treachery... by cmiller173 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually the Senate bill, which is what he signed, has been up for weeks. The House reconciliation bill which is now in the hands of the Senate is nowhere near signing. What remains to be seen is if the Senate, which actually likes the Senate bill (they passed it after all), will actually pass the reconciliation bill.

  26. holy crap by unity100 · · Score: 2, Informative

    of course it would work. it is the official page to submit a petition. its in equal status as if you went there, and presented a petition on paper. its official, governmental, bureaucratic as it can be.

  27. surrender monkeys as in by unity100 · · Score: 4, Informative

    how they occupied entire europe back in 1792 ?

    fyi, any serious scholar of military history would be able to say that what befell on france would befall any contemporary nation that happened to be placed geographically same with france. germans gambled on untested military technology, and won their gambit. such gambles cost many nations their freedoms before when tried. however this time it worked.

    northern france, poland, western soviet union had geography that was most accommodating to this new kind of war, blitzkrieg, with their open wide fields that allowed big mobility. because it was a fast tactic, until allies were able to develop a counter tactic, germans were done away with northern france, and even later soviets in 1941.

    due to geography, blitzkrieg didnt work well in south france, yugoslavia, balkans.

    let me break you another fact - by 1940, united states didnt even have a proper medium battle tank, hell they didnt even have light tanks. had germany been a neighbor of usa, all americans would be talking german now. i know this will come as distasteful to a lot of you nationalist americans out there, but its a brutal historic fact.

    and on a sidenote, im not french. im just a hobbyist of history.

    1. Re:surrender monkeys as in by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

      The Russians had some idea, they were allowing the Germans to conduct training operations on Russian territory.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  28. Not too bad by Jenming · · Score: 2, Informative

    After reading through the entire thing it actually doesn't look too bad.

    The only major problem I see in it is trying to make 3rd parties liable for people who use their services. I'd recommend pestering your elected representatives and tell them to follow NZ lead on those articles.

    The rest of it basically says:
    1) make sure its illegal to copy and distribute pirated works.
    2) make sure there are tools to enforce those laws.
    3) provide these legal tools to foreign copyright holders.

    These seem like pretty logical steps. I think the real fight here should be to shorten the absurd copyright lengths currently in use.

    --
    Morpheus, God of Dreams.
    1. Re:Not too bad by slashdotjunker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not too bad, huh?

      Even if the treaty was blank pages I would be against it. The content of ACTA is irrelevant. The process used to create ACTA goes against what I believe are cornerstones of our society and the treaty should be killed for that alone. Any non-negative or even overtly positive terms of ACTA would not balance out the long term damage to our society caused by allowing ACTA to live.

      I might sound like some kind of hardliner who is unwilling to compromise, but that's not true at all. Here is my compromise. If you just let ACTA die quietly, then I'm willing to let those involved in the creation of ACTA go free instead of sending them to jail.

    2. Re:Not too bad by 2obvious4u · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What if your country only believes in 7 year copyrights? What if your country believes that copyrights stifle innovation?

    3. Re:Not too bad by Jenming · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then you probably shouldn't be entering a trade treaty designed to protect IP...

      --
      Morpheus, God of Dreams.
  29. Re:http://en.swpat.org/wiki/201001_acta.pdf_as_tex by Artemis3 · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
    Artix
    Your Linux, your init.
  30. Trust your government by Tokolosh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... Even with leaks we can't trust our governments to continue in this despicable fashion.

    On the contrary, I believe that we can put our full trust in the government to continue in a despicable fashion.

    --
    Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
  31. Re:http://en.swpat.org/wiki/201001_acta.pdf_as_tex by Applekid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In this case, since it was effectively smuggled out, I'd wager that the leak was simply unable to get ahold of the source document and maybe all they had available was some hard copies. FSM bless them for the effort, I sure hope they don't get found out and made dead.

    --
    More Twoson than Cupertino
  32. The Right-Wing nutjobs may have been right? by jd2112 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Perhaps this, rather than the UN, is the 'Evil One-World Govenment' they were warning us about...

    --
    Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
  33. Global Fascism Acid Test by inKubus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This has the hallmarks of an acid test. Global law negotiations done in secret, under the guise of treaty...exactly the way we don't want it to go. From here there will be more laws in secret and the only way you'll find out you've violated them is that you don't have the required permit on your passport and you're accosted at the border. This is exactly how the global fascists (corpratists) want it. Without control over global travel, they cannot control the flow of goods and information. Each intersection of borders is a profit gradient. If goods are allowed to pass by osmosis, they lose all the leverage they could use to pump wealth back and forth between countries while taking a cut off the top. Sooner or later, they have it all.

    There are basically two forks in this road: one, where there is a single world democracy with the corporations below that rule of law and the other where there are separate country laws (like there are now) and the corporations flit above them BUT prohibit the individual. That's where we're headed now.

    --
    Cool! Amazing Toys.
  34. Re:a companies bad busines model by SilentSandman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "clearly"? ... considering how far this has already gone, I am guessing it's not quite clear enough.

  35. Re:Safe Harbor Provisions by GasparGMSwordsman · · Score: 2, Informative

    Understand that a treaty supersedes a nation's sovereignty - in effect, you've signed away the right to abjudicate disagreements according to your own law. Those "rights" holders are attempting to dictate to Moscow, Washington, London, and Beijing, just how "intellectual property" will be handled in the future.

    A treaty does NOT supersede a nations sovereignty. A treaty is an agreement between one or more countries (there have been single nation treaties signed) where all parties agree to do something. There is not force behind that agreement, each country has to decide that they want to follow the agreement and then do so.

    There is no force behind the treaty other than the other nations would be upset. Japan ignored several treaties (and then broke them) prior to WWII. The United States ignored many, many treaties dealing with Indian nations. Both Britain and France have a long list of treaties that were ignored.

    The most famous treaty not worth its own paper, would be that acknowledging Belgium's neutrality, signed by Germany (Treaty of London 1839).

    If you are a US citizen there is a concern that a signed treaty is a way to side step Constitutional protections. Under the Constitution a treaty has more weight under law than one of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights for example. This is of course subject to interpretation by the SCOTUS.

    However even in this situation you would still have to have agents of the Government choosing to act on those treaty items. There would be no force of law requiring them to do so. If the President issued an executive order to not-enforce that provision of the treaty there would be little to no consequence (barring political backlash).

    In addition, at any time, a nation can withdraw from a treaty. It is sort of like standing up and saying, "hey fellas, I don't care anymore."

    I would suggest at least reading the Wikipedia page on treaties for a better understanding of them:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty

  36. not a single element. by unity100 · · Score: 2, Informative

    at that point (ie up to 1941) united states didnt have any solid combined arms to stand up to what germans had invented.

    aircraft were subpar (not totally inferior, but subpar) tactics were obsolete, bombers were inferior, (b17s didnt come into being until 1941 proper), no tanks, outdated infantry tactics, no close support. you can count many things.

    usa had taken a lot of lessons from what befell on france, britain and russia up till the time she joined the war. and even in 1941, allies were still not on par with germans.

    1. Re:not a single element. by unity100 · · Score: 2, Informative

      rather appallingly, u.s. didnt do enough for those oceans. it had some battleships, many obsolete, and only 2 aircraft carriers. japanese totally outclassed united states in generaly capability.

      however pearl harbor didnt do much to prolong the war. actually, by the time it happened, so much construction was put into motion that even if japanese sank every single floating battleship and a/c usa had, they would still be outnumbered 2 to 1 in 1 years' time, and 4 to 1 in 1.5 years' time.

      i read a research published on a navy enthusiast website once. it compared manpower and manufacturing power of countries, and found out that u.s. approx tripled all allies, axis combined itself. so the result of the war was a foregone conclusion in that regard.

  37. Re:http://en.swpat.org/wiki/201001_acta.pdf_as_tex by The+Mighty+Buzzard · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Which would be precisely why it isn't done that way.

    --
    Violence is like duct tape. If it doesn't solve the problem, you didn't use enough.
  38. Re:Reality check by Andorin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First off, anyone under 30 that has ever downloaded music or a movie is never going to accept anything that forces them to pay for crap.

    Generalization. I can just as easily say that most people who use p2p regularly are more active collectors who are more likely to buy something, despite the fact that they can get it for free, because they know that creators have to eat too.

    On a tax basis if everyone universally stops paying for media, there will be a huge hit in revenue collected by governments.

    Nope. If someone downloads a movie, the money they could have spent on it is more likely to go somewhere else than just sit in their wallet. Net financial effect: Zero.

    The rest of your post is pretty much invalidated by the above.

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    That Anonymous Coward guy is pretty annoying. Can we have the government censor him or something?