Rapidshare Trying To Convert Pirates Into Customers

An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from TorrentFreak: "The file-hosting service Rapidshare is seeking major entertainment industry partners for an online store [to which links containing infringing material will redirect]. The plan is an attempt to bridge the gap between copyright holders and users of the site who distribute infringing material. Similar to many other companies that operate in the file-sharing business, Rapidshare often finds itself caught between two fires. On the one hand it wants to optimize the user experience, but by doing so they have to respect the rights holders to avoid being continuously dragged to court. To ease the minds of some major executives in the entertainment industry, Rapidshare's General Manager Bobby Chang has revealed an ambitious plan through which copyright holders could benefit from the file-hosting service. At the same time, Chang says that his company will target uploaders of copyrighted material — whom he refers to as criminals — more aggressively."

Comments

This will fail

[damburger]

Because pirates already *are* customers. Classifying the world into 'criminal' pirates and paying customers is idiotic, and with such a faulty premise, then no matter how well thought out this plan is, it is doomed.

Re:This will fail

[WrongSizeGlass]

Because pirates already *are* customers. Classifying the world into 'criminal' pirates and paying customers is idiotic

Exactly. They should be classifying them into paying customers and non-paying customers. Then they could gear their new store toward the paying customers in order to sales goals.

Re:This will fail

[damburger]

That classification is also flawed. What if people sometimes pay, sometimes pirate? You can classify the activity, but not the person.

Re:This will fail

[russotto]

I hope they introduce it to more titles - by winning piracy we will start to get more quality games, as 90% of gamers aren't freeloaders anymore.

Mod +6, hilarious.

Having them successfully tighten their grip won't get you more quality games. It'll get you higher prices (supply and demand; the lack of a free substitute product) and more intrusive DRM.

Re:This will fail

[WrongSizeGlass]

That classification is also flawed. What if people sometimes pay, sometimes pirate? You can classify the activity, but not the person.

OK, paying customers, non-paying customers and occasionally-paying customers.

Trying to separate the activity from the person who performs the activity is disingenuous, IMHO. The activity will not occur on its own - it requires the person to perform it.

Re:This will fail

[russotto]

No, it wont get higher prices because you can't increase price of a product infinitely just because it's one of a kind product.

What sort of silly straw man is this? Who said anything about "infinitely"? If eliminating piracy means that increasing prices will result in a higher profit-maximizing price (and unless you assume that paying customers never convert to pirates at any price, nor vice-versa, it will), then the companies will increase prices.

If you make the parenthesized assumption above, then piracy doesn't matter at all, so why are you bothering with the DRM?

Re:This will fail

[Alphathon]

I think when talking about Assassin's Creed II that's slightly wrong. I own many games with online based DRM (many of them EA games from when they still did that), and those don't bother me too much. The limited activations are annoying, but a tool has been released by EA to restore activations, so unless your computer dies or you forget to de-authorize a game, you essentially have infinite installs. However, Assassin's Creed II I had on pre-order, but canceled when I heard about the DRM. I am anti-DRM, but that is not why I canceled. I canceled because just looking at the system they are using, I could see that there would be problems. My internet sucks - it is slow and unreliable, and there is nothing I can do about it. As a result, I am fairly certain I would have more than average problems playing this game. That, and I could see the server outages coming. Did I pirate the game? No. I want to play it, and may pick it up at some point if it's cheap, but even then I'm reluctant. Since the save games are all in the cloud, when (and I do mean when) they shut down the servers, the game is dead, and I'm not sure I want to play it enough to support that.

Re:This will fail

[Sir_Lewk]

Way to completely not make a point at all, but sincerely feel like you have.

Re:This will fail

[dontmakemethink]

Classification has nothing to do with it. You do the crime, you do the time, regardless of how much time you've spent not committing crimes.

It's a moot issue anyway. Rapidshare has been copied so many times over that they have absolutely no pull to make this happen. If they interfere with the dissemination of illegal content their user base will drop like a lead balloon. Just by attempting to address the issue they've acknowledged that piracy constitutes a significant segment of their business. The whole idea is self-defeating.

Re:This will fail

[mysidia]

Ok.. so what happens if you buy an MP3 from Walmart or Napster's store, and you now own the song

But you find you need an unencrypted MP3 file to be able to play it on your new MP3 player, and the DRM-laden file is useless.

Are you a non-paying customer if you go to rapidshare and download that file?

I say you are neither pirate, nor non-paying customer. You already bought a copy of that data, you paid for those bits, and the publisher already got their cut.

Now your only option to exercise your fair use right of playing the media is to actually go find someone who has altered the datafile to make it unencrypted.

That's because, it's illegal to exchange or sell 'copy protection circumvention' technologies that decrypt music. The only way you can legally remove DRM for a file is to download a file with the encryption removed from someone else who also legally owns a copy.

The bits are still the same, and the content is still the same (unmodified), you have just acquired an unencrypted version of a file you already own, through the assistance of a third party providing you the decrypted version of the bits.

Re:This will fail

[Skillet5151]

Ok I'll play. Since piracy rates for console games are vastly lower than PC ones, how does your theory account for the fact that most console games are released at an even higher price point than PC games?

Re:This will fail

[tehSpork]

I passed over both Assassin's Creed II and C&C 4 due to the DRM (both of which resulted in canceled preorders). After hearing the horror stories about the more recent DRM "innovations" the vast majority of my gamer friends have followed suit.

Personally I won't purchase Assassin's Creed II until a crack or patch is released that resolved the DRM problem. If that means waiting until the game is a $5 steam special I'm fine with that, I don't have to play a game the instant it comes out.

What is so annoying about this entire affair is that I am not a thief, pirate, rampant violator of intellectual property, etc. I just want to be able to use the software I purchase without my crappy Comcast connection compromising my single-player gaming experience. Is this too much to ask?

Re:This will fail

[Ihmhi]

If you buy a song on iTunes, delete it/lose it, and then want to redownload it from iTunes, are you able to? No.

I download a game from Steam (technically, I "subscribe" to that game - wording to get around the right of resale), and I reformat/delete it/lose it etc., I can always grab it again at no charge pretty much as many times as I need to.

iTunes treats purchases like physical items and Steam treats purchases as licenses.

The subscription/license on a per-item basis of digital purchases is probably the best for the consumer IMO. If you buy a song, $0.99 is ridiculous for the data itself. If it were $0.99 for a license to own a copy of that song, it would seem wholly less ridiculous.

I can redownload games on Steam if I have to, so I use Steam. (The DRM is also unobtrusive.) I can't redownload songs on iTunes without paying for them, so I don't use iTunes. Simple as that.

Doing it the "license" way would also render P2P and the like null and void. If I purchased a hard copy of the White Album (for the fifth time) and downloaded some lossless digital files, I'm considered a pirate. Hell, if I rip the files from the CD and put it on my cell phone I'm considered a pirate. You just can't win the way things are nowadays. No wonder people pirate. I get my ass taken to court for downloading the White Album? Whoops, I already purchased it and are therefore entitled to download it.

Sadly, I imagine it will be some time before the market and/or the law gets more in line with sanity.

The day that the *AAs either get their heads out of their collective asses or collapse under their own weight is the day that the music industry will be better for (almost) everyone: artists, producers, composers, songwriters, and most importantly customers. Sure, corporate lawyers and *AA management will get the shaft, but they deserve at least that for their nigh-criminal business tactics of that last 100 years.

Re:This will fail

[Carrot007]

> Even World of Goo had piracy rate of around 90%

HELLO! Please stop it with your statistics already.

ANyone wiuth an IQ over 12 knows stats prove nothing.

You cannot measure the piracy rate.

Even your linked article says as much.

The other main factor around piracy is just the hording factor. Even back in the amiga days I knew people who just got pirated stuff to say they had it. They never used it, just had it. How is that harming anyone? (hey you could have put pics of a mokey's arese on a disk and told them it was x great new games and they would never know the difference),

Wait a moment, I though I had a point but I forget it now....

Re:This will fail

[mysidia]

If you buy a song on iTunes, delete it/lose it, and then want to redownload it from iTunes, are you able to? No.

That depends. In some circumstances, you can get apple to reset it and let you re-download the file without paying anything more.

There's a reason for this. It costs something to pay for the bandwidth to download a file. And $0.99 per song gives them only a slim profit margin -- most of the money goes to music company, so if you downloaded several times, there would be no profit for Apple (due to the pro-rata bandwidth cost of your repeat transfers).

Also, Apple would [probably] rather you re-buy and spend more money = more profit.

It also costs something to keep records of what files you are allowed to re-download. They probably do this anyways, because there is other value in keeping those records, but not necessarily in a form suitable to allow re-downloads.

If they allowed free re-download, people would abuse it -- by installing iTunes on multiple of their computers, and using iTunes to download to additional computers at Apple's expense instead of syncing themselves.

Re:This will fail

[genner]

I say you are neither pirate, nor non-paying customer.

Sorry, but no. It's still piracy. You paid for a DRM-laden file, and a DRM-laden file is all you're entitled to. That's not to say that I would find the practice particularly objectionable, but just know, it's not supported by law.

The copyright-holder has the right to close off any distribution avenue they like for their work (to within fair use). You can reason this in terms of finance. Basically it undercuts their ability to sell a cheaper, inferior, DRMed version, and a more expensive DRM-free version.

Nope, that's wrong. The DMCA has no fair use provision. Breaking DRM for any reason is illegal now. God bless America.

Re:This will fail

[shutdown -p now]

Before Internet became the main vehicle for software piracy, counterfeit CD shops provided the same service, and it wasn't really all that harder to get.

Re:This will fail

[Voyager529]

The fact that making backup copies of vinyl has always been impractical doesn't change the principle. Music has always been priced according to a formula that bears resemblance to (cost of physical pressing + distribution/shipping + studio time + artist cut + marketing + profit). If you already paid for the last five pieces, there's no reason why the sixth couldn't be considered separately. You paid for the record to be recorded, marketed, and for the artists and suits to support their coke habits. Just because the physical media was damaged doesn't negate that, so it's always stood to reason that one should be able to pay a significantly lower cost for a replacement physical media. However, up until the 80's it was highly impractical for people to do so, because a machine for pressing vinyl at home never really caught on in any meaningful capacity.

In the 80's, we had dual-deck cassette recorders, and that allowed us to make backups much more readily, but even that was hampered due to the requirement of real-time duplication. It was here, though, that the mixtape was born.

In the 90's, we had CD burners, and duping a CD took about 20 minutes at first...then 10...then 5...then 2.

People have always wanted the same thing - to buy music once and play it whenever they want. When personal duplication was impractical, it was never considered a desirable trait. Later, that ability was given to us, and now it's being taken away again.

Personally, I have never bought a song from iTunes whose first stop wasn't a CD-R for re-ripping. First, I simply appreciated the irony of iTunes wrapping the AAC file in DRM, then burning the song to disc in iTunes, then having iTunes volunteer to re-rip it for me. But second, it gave me both a physical backup of the song, as well as an MP3 that plays everywhere. No one is expecting Apple/EMI/Whoever to buy them new iPods or computers because it breaks. It's more like if a record refused to play without a specific needle, but could be altered to play with any needle, then the record self-destructing without being replaced.No one would have stood for that back then, but again, it simply wasn't practical.

Re:This will fail

[Kalriath]

Trust me, it wouldn't bring the iTunes servers to a standstill - iTunes songs are served by the same machines that serve Windows Update - the Akamai CDN. More bandwidth than Slashdot, SourceForge, and Youtube combined.

Re:This will fail

[delinear]

It would be useful to know how they arrived at those figures (never automatically trust the figures from people with ulterior motives - we all know the ridiculous figures music labels bandy around for instance), but notwithstanding that, if piracy is the reason for high prices then platforms which don't suffer piracy (PS3, Ubisoft's new DRM) should have considerably lower (on the order of those figures, at least 85% lower) prices. The fact that this isn't true would seem to suggest an admission on the part of the publishers that piracy does very little to the bottom line (and in fact, the more locked down console platforms have higher prices than the more craked PC platform, suggesting the prospect of piracy is encouraging lower prices rather than higher), it's just a convenient excuse for high prices. If they ever totally crack the piracy situation, they'll find another convenient excuse.

Title is misleading

[junglebeast]

I think this would have been more aptly named:

"Rapidshare Trying To GET RID OF their Customers who are Pirates"

instead of

"Rapidshare Trying To Convert Pirates Into Customers" ..which is just...the opposite.

Um, No?

[WrongSizeGlass]

The file-hosting service Rapidshare is seeking major entertainment industry partners for an online store

If they are in fact pirates then trying to setup a store for them is probably a waste of time. Though I must commend them for nicely putting everything in one location and inviting pirates to come for a visit. Rocket surgery, indeed.

Say no to rapidshare

[Keruo]

Just say no to rapidshare and alike "please pay us or wait imaginary seconds for a download slot" sites.

You can use google docs to share large files.

Hmm...

[Anonymous Coward]

As a former "pirate" I do not think this will work. Most "pirates" just want free stuff.. they do not have any problems with movie/software/music industry! They just have gotten used to getting everything for free and see no reason to pay if it is available for free.

Now I do not download stuff anymore but I also do not buy it either. Most of that stuff just isn't worth the price being asked for IMHO.

Everyone still riding the freeloading bandwagon - try 'quitting' - you'll realize most of that stuff you never need or can live by without just fine.

Lip service

[OpenSourced]

I'd say that is just lip service for the benefit of the content providers. A way of saying "see? we are doing things, and you can work with us (and pay us in the process)".

Basically, rapidshare doesn't know which content is copyrighted or not, as a good percentage of it is encrypted, and that percentage is sure to grow if any kind of countermeasure is tried. You have to manually search the blogs for the password to be able to know if the content is copyrighted or not. The economics of it is non-existent.

So the basic system of the storage-download sites have to change for it to reduce copyrighted works copying, and that's also unlikely except via legislation. I think this is just an attempt to move the legislation threat a bit further away in time.

Megaupload

[grendel03]

Megaupload is better for that sort of thing anyway.

It could be extortion

[TheSpoom]

Hey copyright holders! Would you like to sell copies of your IP at our online store? You'll get a (small) cut, but at least you'll get something! And, if you don't play ball, maybe uploaded versions of your files take a few weeks to get deleted. Maybe they don't get deleted at all. You wouldn't want that to happen, right?

Agreed, it won't work ... but 'former pirate"?

[King_TJ]

I'll openly admit that by the twisted definition of "software pirate" in popular use today, I qualify. But the interesting thing is, I've bought quite a bit of software over the years too. In relation to my total income, I probably spend a larger percentage on "intellectual property" than the average "I don't pirate!" user out there.

The companies trying to rule with an iron fist of copy protection create much of the problem for those of us who have the means to buy software.

Here's just one recent example. I was asked to help a small business transfer over their data from an older, dying PC to a new replacement PC they purchased. Fine, but the old PC apparently had an "OEM version" of Microsoft Office 2003 Pro installed on it, and they couldn't even locate the original CD for it anymore. Their expectation was that the product would keep on working just fine when I was done transferring it over. (That's what any normal, logical-thinking person would assume, right?) But thanks to Microsoft's product activation and arbitrary rules on what limitations exist on OEM vs. retail copies of their products - they were technically stuck buying a whole new copy of Office to remain "legal" and keep using it like they did before the old PC died.

Considering nobody even sells Office 2003 anymore (well, without a LOT of digging online to find some old stock left-over copy someplace obscure, anyway), they weren't even able to continue using the product if they WERE willing to pay for a new copy. They were basically going to be herded into buying a copy of Office 2007 instead, which they didn't want.

Since I was already getting paid to "make this transfer work without any hassles", my best option was to install a different copy of Office 2003 Pro on the PC, using a pirated key. (If you know where to look, there are Asian web sites out there selling such keys, via email, for about $20-25 a pop. The keys they sell will activate with MS product activation just fine and pass all the tests as being genuine. How they're obtained, I honestly don't know and probably don't want to know. But it's an affordable solution to the problem, even IF Microsoft says it's not legal.)

As to how all this relates to Rapidshare? Well, let's just say that Rapidshare's main function for MOST of its users is to obtain copyrighted software they're seeking for any number of reasons (some more "legitimate" than others). If they turn around and bite that hand that feeds, thinking the "industry" is a better partner to please? They're more than welcome to try, but I think they'll find nobody finds any value in Rapidshare offering up suggestions on how to purchase things they were looking to download for free.