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Fatty Foods May Cause Cocaine-Like Addiction

WrongSizeGlass writes "A new study in rats suggests that high-fat, high-calorie foods affect the brain in much the same way as cocaine and heroin. The rats that gorged themselves on the human food quickly became obese."

89 of 507 comments (clear)

  1. That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-carb by sopssa · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you consider what the most fast and junk food are:
    pizzas, hamburgers, hot dogs, french fries, sandwiches, kebab rolls, baguettes, kfc's fried chicken, pan pizzas, nuggets and so on.. like this illustrative image shows.

    It's not only high-fat thats the problem, but also high-carb. I never really crave for high-fat but low-carb food and my body feels a lot better with low-carb food. It's the combination of high-fat and high-carb that is bad, and leaves all the fat in your body because carbs burn first.

  2. To quote the great Bob Saget by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    You ever sucked d**k for a cheeseburger?

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:To quote the great Bob Saget by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sucked duck? I don't get it...

    2. Re:To quote the great Bob Saget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Its a good point however if you could get cocaine/heroine for 99 cents, on ANY corner, in a drive through. If it was advertised on every nearly every billboard, if it was glorified on every commercial as a way to bring the family together or to just relax after a hard days work. If no one went to jail for making it. Then no one would to need to suck anything to get one either.

    3. Re:To quote the great Bob Saget by Jeppe+Salvesen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nope. And no-one would if drugs were legal and cheap.

      --

      Stop the brainwash

    4. Re:To quote the great Bob Saget by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's the next step after kitten huffing. Just remember, kittens are a gateway drug!

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re:To quote the great Bob Saget by thijsh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Great paraphrase of a quote from one of the funniest stoner movies, Half Baked: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120693/quotes?qt0426764

      That was a real funny quote that actually got me thinking years back that cannabis might not be so bad as some people try to scare you into believing... Nobody sucks dick for weed, and nobody overdosed on the stuff *ever*... Sadly you can't say the same about fatty (or sugary) foods, the death toll is like 0 to a couple million. But I must note that there might be a slight correlation between the two caused by the munchies. :)

  3. OK, so now... by nycguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...I have just as much respect for fat people as I do for drug addicts.

    1. Re:OK, so now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Right, because Fat people are responsible for the first fatty foods they ate given to them by their parents just like a drug addict, right?

      You are probably some young punk who is thin without having to work at it. I was that way, once. 165 lbs ad 5'11" when I got out of high school. Well believe me, even if you work at keeping thin, it's still possible to get fat no matter what you do.

      And if you can't have respect for fat people, try a little sympathy.

    2. Re:OK, so now... by SBFCOblivion · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And if you can't have respect for fat people, try a little sympathy.

      I feel sympathy towards overweight children because their parents are more than likely the cause. The parents should care more about making sure their child is healthy.

      I do not, however, feel sympathy towards fat adults. I'm fat myself. I know it is within my power to correct the issue, I'm just lazy. I don't mean that I do nothing but sit around. I'm lazy about watching what I eat and in what portions. I expect a large number of overweight people have similar stories.

    3. Re:OK, so now... by fredjh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Agreed... I have no one to blame but myself. It's not society's fault; it's not McDonald's fault (although I don't eat there anyway, but you get the idea).

      I'm a work-a-holic right now, have two kids to chauffeur around, and don't take the time to eat right and exercise. When I make a conceivable schedule for a day and squeeze in proper meals and a workout around work and kids, my wife asks "where am I on your list?" It just doesn't all fit. But it's my choice, I just choose to continue taking my kids to the things that I hope will help keep them from getting this way (sports and dance classes).

      But I know it's my choice and I know I'm taking the easy way out when I eat junk.

      --
      Stupid, sexy Flanders.
  4. Human food by kiehlster · · Score: 5, Funny

    Oh, few... At first I read that as rats gorging themselves on human fat. Wait a minute... maybe the end of the world will come when rats get a cocaine-like addiction to eating humans. Everybody PANIC!

  5. This is your brain. This is your brain on drugs. by unclepedro · · Score: 2, Funny

    Any questions?

    Yeah, can I get mine over easy? It goes in the syringe better.

  6. Availability by kirill.s · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They are also much easier to obtain than cocaine and cost less.

  7. Now the question regards addiction strength. by Spazntwich · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Does this mean fatty food is "that" addictive, or does this perhaps mean cocaine isn't that addictive? Though I suppose the mere notion of shades of "addictiveness" can be dishonest itself, considering the binary nature of addiction (you either are, or you aren't, and exhibit a different set of behaviors based on that).

    Also, I wonder if this study holds true for various other pleasurable inputs. As far as anyone knows, cocaine acts by causing direct stimulation of the reward center, a property shared by (as far as I know) any behavior the brain seeks to reinforce, including eating energy dense foods, so I wonder if things like bathing and receiving affection could also demonstrate similar "cocaine-like addictions," witness OCD handwashing and narcissism.

    Seems like the scientists continue to find supporting evidence for the brilliant motto, "Everything in moderation. Including moderation." Except probably cocaine.

    1. Re:Now the question regards addiction strength. by Spazntwich · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've been doing a horrible job of clearly making my implications lately, lol.

      I didn't mean to imply any sort of puritanical value, or even to imply that something "addictive" is bad. If anything, I'd say any act someone enjoys can reach the level of addiction given enough other coinciding factors, and addictive behavior is rarely even the "fault" of the specific behavior but more an emergent consequence of a number of things.

      I've been up all night and am now rambling. I hope I haven't said anything too stupid.

    2. Re:Now the question regards addiction strength. by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Also, I wonder if this study holds true for various other pleasurable inputs.

      Yes. All this research shows is that pleasurable stimuli are reinforcing. Fatty foods activate reward pathways in the same way cocaine does. But so does sex, gambling, shopping, video games, etc. Choose your poison.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  8. Solely focused on consuming food... by plasticsquirrel · · Score: 5, Interesting
    From the article:

    They began to eat compulsively, to the point where they continued to do so in the face of pain. When the researchers applied an electric shock to the rats' feet in the presence of the food, the rats in the first two groups were frightened away from eating. But the obese rats were not. "Their attention was solely focused on consuming food," says Kenny.

    Assuming that rats and humans are somewhat similar in their responses, this paints a really sickening and embarrassing picture of fat people. Although they are harmed physically by their obesity, they continue at their own detriment. Maybe they really are like the obese rats who continue to eat food in the face of physical pain, when the healthier rats have been scared away.

    --
    Systemd: the PulseAudio of init systems
    1. Re:Solely focused on consuming food... by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Assuming that rats and humans are somewhat similar in their responses, this paints a really sickening and embarrassing picture of fat people. Although they are harmed physically by their obesity, they continue at their own detriment. Maybe they really are like the obese rats who continue to eat food in the face of physical pain, when the healthier rats have been scared away.

      There might be some other interpretations as well. For example, if the brain chemistry provides such a powerful compulsion, then my sympathy for people in this category goes up, because leaving a donut in the box might be as hard as a coke addict leaving a line on the table.

      Or maybe the obese rates are those that had no self-control to start out with. If that's the case, the severe obesity might simply be a visible indicator of a very real character flaw. (Although I have serious questions about the meaning of "moral failure", if brain chemistry determines a person's actions.)

    2. Re:Solely focused on consuming food... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      (Posting anonymously in case any future insurance company is reading this.)

      > Although they are harmed physically by their obesity,
      > they continue at their own detriment.

      I'm in a 12-step program for compulsive eating (ceahow.org), recovering since 06-Sep-2002.

      Before program, I was >300lbs (I'm ~6'3"). I used to eat US$25 at McDonald's every meal. Or 2 large delivery pizzas. Or I'd get 2-3 normal person's carry-out dinners and eat those myself.

      Eventually, I was diagnosed with type-II diabetes. I was put on Actos. Actos is an insulin sensitizer which is, IIRC, supposed to make my body better use the insulin my weakened pancreas could produce.

      One of the side effects was, when I binged, my blood sugar would quickly crash and my vision would blur. I couldn't read, had trouble seeing well enough to drive. So I planned my binges on staying home.

      I had physical, tangible proof my behavior was damaging me *every single time I did it* and yet I continued.

      It was about the high.

      When I ignored the craving, concentrated on not eating ("Don't eat don't eat don't eat don't eat"), the pressure would build. I would give in to the craving to simply get rid of the pressure, so I could on with my day. The longer I'd go (hours, usually), the harder I'd snap.

      I know this article shows a single rat study that may or may not be scientific proof of a causal link in humans. All I can say is I see myself in the rats' behavior. I sympathize with what the rats were going through.

    3. Re:Solely focused on consuming food... by Angst+Badger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or maybe the obese rates are those that had no self-control to start out with. If that's the case, the severe obesity might simply be a visible indicator of a very real character flaw. (Although I have serious questions about the meaning of "moral failure", if brain chemistry determines a person's actions.)

      Unless you're going to invoke some mythological explanation like a soul, brain structure and chemistry determine all of a person's actions. We may be extremely complex and chaotic (in the formal mathematical sense), but we're still automata, just like everything else in a deterministic universe.

      --
      Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
    4. Re:Solely focused on consuming food... by akakaak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or maybe the obese rates are those that had no self-control to start out with. If that's the case, the severe obesity might simply be a visible indicator of a very real character flaw. (Although I have serious questions about the meaning of "moral failure", if brain chemistry determines a person's actions.)

      First, the obese rats were the ones in the "eat sugary fatty food" condition, they were not self-selected. Second, if brain chemistry doesn't determine one's actions, what does? Are you a dualist or something?

    5. Re:Solely focused on consuming food... by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unless you're going to invoke some mythological explanation like a soul, brain structure and chemistry determine all of a person's actions.

      Until science offers a completely predictive model of behavior and thoughts, it would be premature to assume that a soul (in the classical definition) does or doesn't exist. Just as there are "God in the gaps" belief patterns, there can also be "science in the gaps" belief patterns.

    6. Re:Solely focused on consuming food... by nine-times · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It also has possible implications for for the culpability of others in the illness of the obese. With drugs, we might blame the addicts, but then we'd probably also blame the drug dealers and try to throw them in jail. Where does McDonalds stand?

    7. Re:Solely focused on consuming food... by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Fair enough. But even if the soul exists, free will remains nonsensical.

      I think that depends on whether or not the universe is deterministic. Maybe. I haven't had nearly enough education or coffee to speak intelligently on this topic.

    8. Re:Solely focused on consuming food... by CODiNE · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I had this buddy who was pretty big, sort of like the captain from Wall-E. I'd seen him eat in many social situations and noticed he ate about the same amount of food I did. Thought it was kind of odd that he'd be so large eating a normal amount of food every time I saw him but... weird.

      Then later another buddy told me the two of them went to a burger place for lunch, and each got a regular hamburger. Then afterwards after they'd said goodbye he noticed him sneak back and buy 2 more burgers.

      So all this time when he's around anyone he'd watch what they order and get something the same size. Then go home or somewhere else and eat 2x as much. Sounds like a shame thing and a compulsion.

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
  9. Yeah, I can see that... by MikeRT · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They taste a lot better most of the time than stuff that is good for you without qualification. That keeps your brain cookin with pleasure-inducing chemistry.

    The one thing about these foods that I don't agree with is that the poor need to eat them because they can't afford food that is good for them. That's a load of rubbish. My wife has been able to buy enough good, canned vegetables like beans, chickpeas and corn to feed a family of four for at least a week for $50. You can do a lot with those staples if you try.

    1. Re:Yeah, I can see that... by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Canning depletes many nutrients, and check the labels -- a lot of canned goods (as well as everything else) have loads of corn syrup. The best way for the poor to eat healthy is to grow a garden; that's what I did when I was poor, and what's more the food tastes a lot better than anything you can buy.

      Second best is the most expensive, that's at the farmer's market.

      After that is frozen; I always thought I hated peas until I ate fresh ones, turns out it's just canned peas I hate, frozen are almost as good as fresh.

      Many of the poor have the added disadvantage of having no transportation, making them spend more than they can afford on poor nutrition foods, because they're limited to the bus line. You can't buy what you cant reach.

    2. Re:Yeah, I can see that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The issue is actually with the lack of decent grocery stores in poorer neighborhoods; if you can only practically shop at fast-food restaurants and convenience stores then healthy food, even if it is affordable, is not available to you. It is something that h

    3. Re:Yeah, I can see that... by LordLucless · · Score: 3, Informative

      The one thing about these foods that I don't agree with is that the poor need to eat them because they can't afford food that is good for them. That's a load of rubbish.

      It's not because they're cheap. It's because they're cheap and easy. Poorer people generally need to work longer hourers to earn enough to get by. If they're part of a family, then both parents generally need to work in order to support it. It's hard to come home after ten hours on the job to face preparing and cooking a fresh meal.

      Also, canned vegetables are generally artificially sweetened.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
  10. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by nattt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    High fat is not the problem at all. Try gorging yourself on a block of good cheddar and see how much you can eat and how addictive it is. It's not. The addiction is all in the sugars, starches and carbohydrates in general.

    Now to read the actual paper:http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/vaop/ncurrent/pdf/nn.2519.pdf

    "The cafeteria diet consisted of bacon, sausage, cheesecake, pound cake, frosting and chocolate" - in other words, full of sugar!!! Yet the news article says it's "fatty foods..." when in reality, it's sugary foods the rats were being fed, that fat being incidental. But of course, the sugar lobby is strong...

    --
    -- oldthinkers unbellyfeel ingsoc
  11. Funny... by brian0918 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Funny, I lost 40 lbs eating high-fat low-carb food, purposely not exercising, and eating whenever I was hungry. And my blood pressure went down to normal from its high of 145/95, so I could stop taking blood pressure medication as well. I'm healthier than I've ever been.

    Of course, unlike these rats, I did not eat cheesecake, frosting or other foods high in refined carbs. But this POS study doesn't bother to differentiate between high-fat/high-carb, high-fat/low-carb, etc, let alone about the balance or type of fatty acids present in the food (e.g. grass-fed bacon vs. grain-fed). This is not science, not even close.

    1. Re:Funny... by erroneus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Low carb diet is the best diet for losing weight because it works with the body's systems. Carbs are the primary fuel. Take away the primary and it goes to secondary. Be aware of the risks of organ damage and aware of what you intake and you will be fine.

      Problem with the low-carb diet is that it is hard to maintain. HARD to maintain. All casual foods are ridiculously high in carbs. Still, when you can do it, it works every time and works extremely well.

    2. Re:Funny... by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 2, Informative

      Which studies are these? Last I checked, there is no consensus on what diets lead to weight loss consistently over all populations. In fact, there's a growing body of evidence that indicates that there may be a widely varying set of diets for people of different genetic backgrounds. Which would explain why so many cultures eat carb-heavy diets and are far healthier than Americans. (Not that there aren't other factors, of course.) Scientific American (I think) had an article on it a few months ago.

      Also, physics *does*, broadly, explain the caloric in/out. If you eat fewer calories than you expend, you will lose weight because the energy has got to come from somewhere. The problem is in account for energy consumed and energy used. Different people apparently process food differently, so isn't as simple as figuring out the total energy freed up in oxidizing the food.

    3. Re:Funny... by brian0918 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe I'm just cynical, but if those nutritionists gave good advice, they wouldn't be in business long. The truth would spread and become common sense, and then we would have no need for nutritionists. :)

  12. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by Moryath · · Score: 5, Informative

    How about the HFCS question?

    For fuck's sake, there's HFCS in just about everything we eat these days. After the recent study, I went through my pantry. Wanted to see precisely how much of the stuff it was in.

    - Hot dogs? CHECK.
    - Oscar Mayer "deli meats" for sandwiches? CHECK.
    - Breakfast cereals? Almost universal. If it has "modified corn starch", that's HFCS under a disguised name.
    - Salty-type snacks? Check. Even the supposedly all-natural pita chips.
    - Anything from Chef Boyardee. Check.
    - Frozen pizzas waiting to be heated up? Check. Turns out they add HFCS to the goddamn tomato sauce.

    The list goes on but I think you get the picture. We're being fed HFCS EVERYWHERE and we just saw a major study done showing an effect on HFCS, either by brain chemistry or satiety reflex, causing obesity. If they were feeding rats the same stuff in their "fatty foods" (and cheesecake is OMG FUCKING FULL OF IT)...

  13. Duh. Biologically We've Still In The Savannah. by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Millions of years of evolution makes animals crave high calorie fatty food and eat as much of it as possible, because they never know when they're going to get the opportunity to do so again. Human beings are no different.

  14. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by Gr8Apes · · Score: 3, Insightful

    High fats aren't the problem - high carbs are, especially the kinds in corn syrup and sugar (starches are a little less bad, but still bad overall).

    Note that you need some, but not as much as you get in some of these foods.

    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  15. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by dfghjk · · Score: 2, Informative

    "...and we just saw a major study done ..."

    Surely you could provide a link for a major study that was just done.

    HFCS is the same as sugar. That's what's being talked about it the thread you have decided to post in.

  16. Super Size Me... by operand · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In the Documentary Super Size Me, several Doctor's noted the same behavior and stated that Fatty Foods found in Fast Food restaurants (McDonald's in this example) were equal to cocaine in terms of addiction.

    --
    string.Empty();
  17. I can't compare... by Akido37 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    But eating junk food produces a high, a euphoric feeling sometimes. I suppose that's why some foods are called "comfort food".

    I can't compare to drug addiction, because I've never experienced that, but a high is definitely present.

    Sometimes, with my tinfoil hat on, I've wondered if Taco Bell was slipping something addictive into the food that makes me keep coming back.

  18. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by gclef · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Bacon is sugary? Sausage is sugary? Granted, the cake entries are both high-fat and high-sugar, but saying all the food items are high-sugar is wrong. They are all high-fat, though.

  19. Re:You think kicking food is hard, try sleep! by Wolvenhaven · · Score: 2, Funny

    Your chemical dependence on dihydrogen monoxide sickens me. It kills thousands of people every year, can't you see how horrible it is?

    --
    Orwell was an optimist.
  20. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by ratnerstar · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yet the news article says it's "fatty foods..." when in reality, it's sugary foods the rats were being fed, that fat being incidental.

    No, it's sugary AND fatty foods that the rats were being fed. The summary ignores the sugar, but you're not being any better by ignoring the fat. When the rats get addicted to plain bread or just piles of granulated sugar, then we can talk about your theory.

    --
    Just because you sold your soul to the devil that needn't make you a teetotaler. --The Devil and Daniel Webster
  21. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Informative

    >>>the sugar [and fructose-added corn syrup] lobby is strong...

    Fixed. So-called "sugar free" foods that substitute sugar alcohols like sorbitol aren't much better. It's still all sugar and still has fattening properties. (Also gives you lots of gas due to the alcohol.)

    More specifically: The fructose half of the sugar is the problem, not the glucose. Plain-old corn syrup (pure glucose) is not harmful to the body, since it's glucose that the body's cells need.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  22. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by ShadowRangerRIT · · Score: 3, Interesting

    To be fair, your body uses fructose too, it's just used by the liver, not by each individual cell. Too much fructose is a problem, but your body does need and use some fructose.

    --
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  23. Re:That explains a lot. by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Funny

    "A new study in rats suggests that high-fat, high-calorie foods affect the brain in much the same way as cocaine and heroin.

    Like heroin and alcohol, food is so addictive that the withdrawal symptoms can kill you! Just say NO to eating!

  24. Headlines like that are not helping obese people by _Spirit · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think this is another case where the media turn something that might be good: increased understanding of how obesity works, into something bad: telling obese people that they have no control over their behaviour, fueling the "it's no my fault, I have a serious illness" justification for doing nothing to help themselves.

    --

    beauty is only a light switch away

  25. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the sugar lobby is weak (USA). That's why there is so damn much HFC in everything. It's the corn lobby that's strong

  26. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by wjousts · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sugar is also high fructose and therefore also fattening.

    Chemistry fail. Fructose is a sugar, but not all sugars are fructose. Glucose is not fructose.

  27. Addiction to Facebook/Twitter Too? by mim · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is there really a cure for *anything* that's addictive for "everyone"? (pls note the links at the end of the article) http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/03/28/fatty.foods.brain/

  28. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by sopssa · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A lot of sausages actually contain a lot of carbohydrates. If you eat sausages, you should go with the ones that are almost full meat. The common belief is that bacon is some extremely fatty food, but it really isn't if you don't mix it with carbohydrates. It's salty though, and that's not really good either.

  29. Re:Your just pissed because fat people live longer by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is /.

    The only place with less "socially acceptable" people is /b/.

    --
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  30. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by RebelWithoutAClue · · Score: 5, Informative
    --
    "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results" - Winston Churchill
  31. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by __aaxwdb6741 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here ya go.

  32. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by RebelWithoutAClue · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, the price of sugar is kept high due to trade restrictions for the US sugar lobby.

    --
    "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results" - Winston Churchill
  33. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by srmalloy · · Score: 4, Funny

    the sugar lobby is weak (USA). That's why there is so damn much HFC in everything. It's the corn lobby that's strong

    Although there appears to be (or have been at one time) a 'sugar Mafia'; years ago, in a restaurant, I noticed that the packets of sugar had an interesting set of statements on the back:

    Use real sugar!
    Only 15 calories per teaspoon
    Use real sugar!
    No artificial ingredients.
    Use real sugar!
    If you know what's good for you.

    The last line had everyone at the table laughing at the mental image of the sugar Mafia coming around to strongarm cooks... "That's a tasty-looking cake you got there... be a shame if something happened to it."

  34. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by RebelWithoutAClue · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
    "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results" - Winston Churchill
  35. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's salty though, and that's not really good either.

    Don't worry, the nanny state is hard at work here too. We'll keep you safe, because you are obviously too stupid to make informed decisions for yourself.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  36. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by CRCulver · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One of the three almost stereotypical low carb breakfast foods is bacon. And it goes well as a lunch or dinner side item. Trust me, after a week of that you'll be repulsed by bacon.

    In Eastern Europe, salo (UK, RU)/szalonna (HU)/slanina (RO), which is bacon with everything except the pure fat skimmed off and then smoked, is eaten daily by many people and they don't tire of it. There, there isn't any maple syrup or pancakes to blame its popularity on. Pure lard is indeed highly appealing to people.

  37. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by somersault · · Score: 2, Informative

    They didn't try all the foods individually, otherwise they might find that bacon is not included. I too thought that they must mean "high fat + high sugar", or maybe just high sugar (but high fat + high sugar is the worst combination for packing on the pounds). If you try eating a load of bacon you'll get full after not too many calories, protein is very filling. I've been eating plenty of protein + fat and low GI carbs for months now and I'm not obese. Yes, I have been exercising also but if I'd been eating cake and ice cream this whole time I'd still be fat.

    --
    which is totally what she said
  38. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by Aphoxema · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you do any real exercise then you need a pretty high proportion of your total calorie intake in complex carbs . It's worth distinguishing between simple carbs and complex carbs, You don't really need much sugar in your diet, but you need a reasonable amount of complex carbs.

    If you're a total couch potato you're going to have health issues whatever kind of diet you take.

    Though I agree, I ask of you to suggest some numbers, some reasonable proportions rather than "much" and "reasonable".

    --
    "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
  39. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by jamesoutlaw · · Score: 5, Informative

    How about the HFCS question?

    For fuck's sake, there's HFCS in just about everything we eat these days. After the recent study, I went through my pantry. Wanted to see precisely how much of the stuff it was in.

    - Hot dogs? CHECK.
    - Oscar Mayer "deli meats" for sandwiches? CHECK.
    - Breakfast cereals? Almost universal. If it has "modified corn starch", that's HFCS under a disguised name.
    - Salty-type snacks? Check. Even the supposedly all-natural pita chips.
    - Anything from Chef Boyardee. Check.
    - Frozen pizzas waiting to be heated up? Check. Turns out they add HFCS to the goddamn tomato sauce.

    The list goes on but I think you get the picture. We're being fed HFCS EVERYWHERE and we just saw a major study done showing an effect on HFCS, either by brain chemistry or satiety reflex, causing obesity. If they were feeding rats the same stuff in their "fatty foods" (and cheesecake is OMG FUCKING FULL OF IT)...

    That's a major reason why I limit the amount of processed foods I eat. I've been doing this for a long time and cook most of my food from scratch. It does not really take a lot of time and the quality of my meals has improved greatly.

    A while back, I came across this article by Michael Pollan and I agree with it:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html

    "Eat Food. Not too much. Mostly Plants."

    Avoid processed/prepackaged stuff as much as possible.

  40. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been doing this weird thing lately.... "cooking". From base ingredients. I don't mean some kinda "all natural" kick, but most of my meals are cooked using basics. Flour. Sugar. Water. Various cooking oils. Beef/Chicken/Vegetable stock. Spices. Rice. Pasta in reasonable amount. Vegetables - fresh or fresh frozen -- which should take up a larger portion of your meal than they probably do. I also started exercising* a few times a week, and eating reasonable proportions -- and as a result of those changes have lost forty pounds and counting. I still eat the crappy stuff with too much HFCS and excessive fat (I've a mental addiction to cheeze-its and butterfingers) but in moderation.

    THe problem here isn't HFCS. It's not fatty foods. If anything, part of the problem lies in looking for external factors to blame. It's eating too much food, too regularly, and most of us not getting any significant exercise*. In my case, for a long time it was lack of knowledge of when is "enough" to eat .(Hint - if you feel full when you're done eating, you've eaten far too much.) Once you have that knowledge, it's also lack of willingness to exercise self control.

    The point of this mini-rant: look to yourself when trying to find a reason. For the vast majority of people, it starts and ends there. If you think it's HFCS -- ok, fine. But HFCS in quantity is far easier to avoid than you make it sound. Hell, fresh bread takes 30 minutes of actual time once a week, without even using a bread machine. Most other alternatives are as easy; or come with a slight increase of time in exchange for healthier food that tastes as good or better.

    * By "exercise" I'm not talking about anything drastic. I started walking my dogs for 30 minutes at a brisk walk, 4-5 times a week. I also started using stairs instead of elevators for up to three flights at work and not just one flight. More recently I've started running, but that's after I lost most of the weight and I do it because (amazingly) I find that it feels good.

  41. Balance is important by rcharbon · · Score: 2, Funny

    You need to balance your choices to achieve moderation. Eat the fatty, sugary stuff, but then take the cocaine to burn off the calories. Soon you'll reach your ideal weight.

  42. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by cathyp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Unfortunately we're hardwired evolutionarily to crave these things in order to cope with lean times, and to top it off these foods are typically cheaper and have less prep time involved.

  43. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Informative

    >>>the sugar lobby is weak (USA). That's why there is so damn much HFC in everything.

    Bzzzz. The sugar lobby is STRONG and have erected protective tariffs that raised cane sugar's cost to artifically-high levels. Therefore companies look for cheap alternatives (HFCS). This is a classic case of how government laws, which appear good on the surface to protect American sugar workers/farmers, actually cause unintended and harmful consequences.

    The sugar tariffs should be removed, so we can import cheap sugar from elsewhere (like Brazil) and therefore make HFCS too expensive to use.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  44. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by nattt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Pasta is not good, not least because wheat is generally not good for you. Naturally occurring sugar is still sugar - it matters not. With fruit you may get a few extra nutrients with it, but it doesn't make the sugar content itself any better for you.

    --
    -- oldthinkers unbellyfeel ingsoc
  45. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by je+ne+sais+quoi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That argument is silly.: you would have no objection to the food companies could put lead in their food as a sweetener or any other toxin that happened to enhance the taste because you view it as the person's responsibility to know what is in their food. You think I'm going to carry a wet chemical lab around with me to test food every time I'm hungry? The bottom line is that part of the reason why we have a government is to precisely to prevent people from passing poisonous or other misleading substances off as nutritious food. If you don't like it, move to some third world country where that sort of thing is acceptable.

    --
    Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
  46. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by broken_chaos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One nice thing about bacon, particularly if you like it crispy, is that you can cook a good chunk of the fat out of it. Sure, it's not great for you, but crispy bacon in moderation isn't too bad.

  47. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by fredjh · · Score: 4, Informative

    The link was to an article about a assemblyman who wants to BAN salts in NY, and cut salts in manufactured products.

    This is not the same as requiring proper and correct food labeling.

    When people complain about the nanny-state, they aren't complaining about companies having to tell you, correctly, what's in their products, it's when the state says you can't do something as opposed to making the decision yourself based on correct labeling.

    --
    Stupid, sexy Flanders.
  48. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by acidrainx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    HFCS isn't everywhere. It's just in all the crappy food that you have in your pantry.

    Did you think about what you were posting before you posted it?

  49. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by wjousts · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sugar is a class of chemicals of which fructose, sucrose and glucose are examples. Nothing you said contradicts what I said. I didn't say anything about table sugar and neither did the OP I was replying to.

  50. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by elecmahm · · Score: 5, Informative

    The difference between "Fructose" and "Sucrose" (table sugar) is significant, biochemically.

    Sucrose is a Glucose + Fructose molecule, linked by a glycosidic (read: "Oxygen atom") bond. The body uses an enzyme, Sucrase, to split up that sucrose into its glucose and fructose componenets.

    Sucrase acts, indirectly, as regulator of sorts -- when a whole lot of sucrase is being used, the body observes that change and reacts accordingly, "Hey, we're good on sugar!"

    But with High Fructose Corn Syrup, the need for Sucrase is bypassed, leaving that regulatory system out of the loop.

    The Sugar lobby may be big, but the Corn lobby is much, much, bigger. And it's heavily subsidized. The main reason HFCS is cheaper than sugar is because of government subsidies.

  51. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by Mordaximus · · Score: 2, Informative

    Though I agree, I ask of you to suggest some numbers, some reasonable proportions rather than "much" and "reasonable".

    Without knowing any physical characteristics of the person in question, their target weight and what their exercise regiment is like, assigning values is pretty pointless, and possibly misleading. Filling in "much" and "reasonable" is an exercise best left to the individual.

  52. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by Jodka · · Score: 2, Funny

    Reminds me of this advertisment in the July 23, 1956 issue of Life, claiming that eating sugar "...offers a new way to more effective weight control."

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature.
  53. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by timeOday · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We'll keep you safe, because you are obviously too stupid to make informed decisions for yourself.

    You have it backwards - that bill would allow people to choose by adding their own salt to food, instead of having it arrive with some unknown quantify of salt in it already. As I read it, that bill did not ban restaurants from having a salt shaker on the table. (If so, I would oppose it). So it doesn't actually restrict salt, it just makes it "opt in" instead of having no choice.

  54. Before / After ban by DrYak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    After the ban "against excessive salt in processed foods" :
    - People who don't like too salty food and people with medical problems (hypertension) :
    buy processed foods.

    - People who like salty food and who don't give crap about their health :
    buy processed foods.
    sprinkle some additional salt before consumption.

    ---

    Before the ban :
    - People who like salty food and who don't give crap about their health :
    buy processed foods.

    - People who don't like too salty food and people with medical problems (hyper-tension) :
    too bad for you !

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  55. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by CatsupBoy · · Score: 2, Funny

    but crispy bacon in moderation

    Now there's two things I never thought I'd see in the same sentence!

  56. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by RebelWebmaster · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm pretty sure you've got that backwards. The primary fat storage mechanism the body uses is the release of insulin to drive excess glucose out of the blood to be stored as fat. Your body likes to burn fat as fuel and is very well-evolved to do so.

  57. It's the carbs, not the fat. by hsthompson69 · · Score: 2

    Bad article. Conflates fat food with high carbohydrate food. Bacon == good. Frosting, with sugar == bad.

    The real addiction here is carbohydrate, and it's a pretty simple equation:

    1) carbohydrates increase blood sugar levels;
    2) blood sugar levels increase insulin levels;
    3) insulin levels cause fat cells to hold on to fatty acids instead of cycling them through as usual;
    4) with your fat cells stealing energy from your blood stream, your other cells start starving for energy;
    5) starved for energy, your body becomes hungry, and you exhibit "addiction" behaviors.

    Fat is good for you (trans-fat is not fat, it's frankenfood). Carbohydrates are the source of all evil and the cause of the "diseases of civilization", including obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, alzhiemers and other chronic diseases.

    Stop eating carbohydrates. It's simple.

    For a great hour and forty minute lecture on the topic, google "gary taubes berkeley".

  58. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wait, suggesting that we're eating bad foods is "looking to external factors to blame", but suggesting that we're eating too much food isn't? I don't see the difference.

    The difference is between blaming the foods you eat, and accepting responsibility for your choice to consume them -- and there *is* a choice.

    Beyond that, *everything* has HFCS in it. If you go to the grocery store and buy bread and apple juice, each of those probably have corn syrup in them.

    Fresh meats don't. Frozen and fresh vegetables don't. Potatoes (even several brands of instant potato) don't. There's a huge list of things that *don't* have it -- but that depends on the types of things you're looking to buy.

    Yes, it's theoretically true that we could expect people to cook all their own meals from scratch, never go out to eat, bake their own bread and juice their own fruits.

    Nowhere did I say "all" or "never" though. I still go out. I still eat store-bought bread (though not as often). I still eat quick meals. I just do so in moderation, and never as much as I used to. Still -- there's this thought that "cooking from scratch" needs to be a difficult and arduous task -- when most of the time it seldom takes as long as required to bake a frozen meal, or run to the store to pick up some take-out. The only down-side is more dishes to wash ;) And it's possible to get juices without sugar added - mostly due to the increasing market for diabetics, but it does exist. Personally, I just eat the fruit these days instead of drinking juice but that's my own choice.

    *Or* we could think about whether the people making billions of dollars from feeding us have some responsibility to provide healthy food, but I guess that's just expecting too much from people

    It is expecting too much. Don't lose sight of the fact that they make billions of dollars by selling the things that people want to consume. If there's a market for other options, then things will be sold to fill that market. (And they are.) The only responsibility sellers have is to sell things that make money. That in no way abrogates our responsibility to know what we're eating.

    Lets instead expect everyone to grow and butcher their own livestock and live off of what fruits and grains and vegetables they can grow in their own gardens, since we can't afford to trust the people providing our food

    Of course we can trust. But we also should be aware of what we're putting into our bodies, shouldn't we? And not just take someone's word for it? Or just assume that because someone is selling it, it must be healthy for us?

  59. Uhh... by twoallbeefpatties · · Score: 2, Informative

    Fat addiction is not sufficient to explain the United States obesity epidemic because fats are just as addictive in Sweden, Japan and Uruguay as they are in the United States but we only have an obesity epidemic here.

    Government policy in the United States is designed to promote obesity by socializing the costs of obesity. The first cost is the food itself, which the government pays for in the forms of, to name two, food stamps and the earned income tax credit. Everyone in the United States is required, by law, to pay for food to feed fat people. Really. The second cost of obesity, greatly increased medical care, is now socialized as well.

    Uh, dude, America has the LEAST socialized health and welfare policies of the first-world nations. I don't think you can blame socialized medicine for the obesity epidemic when we don't have universal health care like all those skinnier nations do, and we have a much weaker safety net for people who can't afford food on their own. If you want an insight into how government policy influences food choices, you might instead want to look into farm subsidies for certain kinds of produce.

    --
    Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
  60. Re:It is only a matter of time... by Ma'at · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So here is the thing. Government policy in the United States is designed to promote obesity by socializing the costs of obesity. The first cost is the food itself, which the government pays for in the forms of, to name two, food stamps and the earned income tax credit. Everyone in the United States is required, by law, to pay for food to feed fat people. Really. The second cost of obesity, greatly increased medical care, is now socialized as well. Those costs could be reflected immediately to the individual in the price of insurance when the insurance market is deregulated and insurers are permitted to charge fatties more. If all those fatties had to pay for their food and pay more for health insurance then their would be a lot fewer fatties. Instead, now, a person who eats responsibly and exercises and who will require far less medical treatment as a result will pay the same amount for medical insurance as they guy who eats two dozen doughnuts for breakfast.

    You do realize that the countries you mention at the beginning of you post (Sweden, Japan, and Uraguay) all have socialized medicine and provide food-stamp like programs for the poor? Nobody wants to be fat and sick. If I told you that if you moved into the projects and quit your job, you could eat Twinkies until you went into a diabetic coma, would you? If you want to look at government causes for obesity look at subsides for grain and sugar farmers, not the fact that now some poor people will get the same medical care as the rich.

  61. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by Carrot007 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > Those "studies" must be BS, because nobody ever said "man I'll suck your dick" for a pack of sugar.

    I recomend you don't ask your nan what she did back in the war to get by then.

    In conclusion supply / demand. If sugar were as restricted as coke your dick would be sucked for it just as much.

    --
    +----------------- | What is the question!
  62. Re:That happens when its BOTH high-fat and high-ca by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Buy your girlfriend some nice chocolates. You might be surprised.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  63. Our cultural bias against fat skews the research by chriscappuccio · · Score: 2, Informative

    The news article uses the headline "fatty foods" but that simply reflects the cultural bias against fat.

    And the article also reflects the bias that everything begins in the brain. Check out this researcher's faculty page. He's obviously focused on the brain exclusively.

    But seminal research like Good Calories Bad Calories shows us that the reactions are mediated by hormones. Brain effects follow the hormonal influence that makes us eat.

    And carbohydrates, not fat, cause insulin release (and chronically elevated insulin levels in people who eat large amounts of carbs, i.e. almost everybody) which causes our cells to suck nutrients and glucose from our blood stream. This makes us hungry, so we eat more. And insulin causes our fat cells to store fat. Our liver converts fructose directly into fat. GCBC also provides a large amount of documented evidence that

    Eating fat by itself causes no insulin response, and proteins have a much lower insulin response. Diets like the PaNu approach take advantage of this. The idea that saturated fat (which our bodies are composed of) is somehow bad for is is incredibly wrong. The modern research over the past 50 years that has got us to the deadly dietary guidelines that we still provide to diabetics today (low fat, high carb) is thoroughly researched in GCBC. I'd really recommend that anyone with an interest in this field (or just in losing weight) check out GCBC and PaNu.

  64. Addictive behavior also results from stress... by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The "Rat Park" experiment showed that addictive behavior results from stress.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park
    """
    Rat Park was a study into drug addiction conducted in the late 1970s (and published in 1980), by Canadian psychologist Bruce K. Alexander and his colleagues at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia, Canada.
        Alexander's hypothesis was that drugs do not cause addiction, and that the apparent addiction to opiate drugs commonly observed in laboratory rats exposed to it is attributable to their living conditions, and not to any addictive property of the drug itself. [1] He told the Canadian Senate in 2001 that prior experiments in which laboratory rats were kept isolated in cramped metal cages, tethered to a self-injection apparatus, show only that "severely distressed animals, like severely distressed people, will relieve their distress pharmacologically if they can." [2]
        To test his hypothesis, Alexander built Rat Park, a 8.8 m2 (95 sq ft) housing colony, 200 times the square footage of a standard laboratory cage. There were 16-20 rats of both sexes in residence, an abundance of food, balls and wheels for play, and enough space for mating and raising litters. [3] The results of the experiment appeared to support his hypothesis. Rats who had been forced to consume morphine hydrochloride for 57 consecutive days were brought to Rat Park and given a choice between plain tap water and water laced with morphine. For the most part, they chose the plain water. "Nothing that we tried," Alexander wrote, "... produced anything that looked like addiction in rats that were housed in a reasonably normal environment." [1] Control groups of rats isolated in small cages consumed much more morphine in this and several subsequent experiments.
        The two major science journals, Science and Nature, rejected Alexander, Coambs, and Hadaway's first paper, which appeared instead in Psychopharmacology, a respectable but much smaller journal in 1978. The paper's publication initially attracted no response. [4] Within a few years, Simon Fraser University withdrew Rat Park's funding.
    """

    Many people in today's industrialized society are under a lot of stress. Creating healthier communities may help reduce addictive behavior. One example of how to do that is here:
        "About the AARP/Bluezones Vitality Project"
        http://www.bluezones.com/makeover-about

    Another is here:
        "Surviving America's Depression Epidemic: How to Find Morale, Energy, and Community in a World Gone Crazy"
      http://books.google.com/books?id=bCuC2H-6k_8C

    Vitamin D deficiency from being indoors too much also contributes to obesity and depression.
        http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/treatment.shtml

    For more on breaking out of a "pleasure trap" leading to obesity, see these:
        http://www.healthpromoting.com/Articles/articles/PleasureTrap.htm
        http://www.amazon.com/Pleasure-Trap-Mastering-Undermines-Happiness/dp/1570671508
        http://www.amazon.com/Supernormal-Stimuli-Overran-Evolutionary-Purpose/dp/039306848X

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  65. Article is misleading. Only worry about sugars ! by shiphen · · Score: 2, Informative

    This article fails to distinguish between fats and fast-burn carbohydrates.

    There is much evidence that fast burn carbs are addictive due to the way that they cause boom-bust cycles of glucose levels. At peak glucose levels the body frantically tries to take glucose out of the blood stream and store it (ultimately as fat). It does this by dumping large quantities of insulin into the blood. The problem is that when the supply of glucose has dried up, the insulin is still there, and this causes a glucose crash, and intense hunger/food cravings. Boom bust causes you to eat too much and makes you fat. It only takes a few grams of sugar to have this effect. The powerful sugar lobby do not want you to know this.

    But the effect of fat is less clear.

    Fat have had an unfairly bad press. Granted some types of fat are moderately bad for you, and granted that when mixed with sugars, they make it easier to eat far too many calories.

    However it is not clear that fats in themselves are in any way bad for your. Whereas sugars are the real enemy.