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Multi-Touch Tech Firm Seeks iPad Sales Injunction
An anonymous reader writes "Taiwan-based Elan Microelectronics just filed a complaint with the US International Trade Commission alleging that Apple is infringing on its patents and violating the Tariff Act, and is seeking a ban on imports of the iPad as well as an order to stop selling the mobile device along with iPhones, iPods, and Macs. The move was taken as a 'continuation of our efforts to enforce our patent rights against Apple's ongoing infringement,' the company said." Considering many iPad pre-orders have tracking #s already, I suspect it might be a little late.
'Don't touch me there' in Chinese?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
They sued Apple a year ago with essentially the same complaint about the iPhone, iPod Touch, and MacBook.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt Apple suing HTC over, among other patents, multi-touch? Now Apple is being sued over the same thing?
So who actually owns this patent?
This depends on if they can prove that negotiations have failed. If there were little to no negotiations, then this appears to be nothing more than a Troll looking to strike while the iron's hot (or to hurt when the competitor is weakest). But for all we know, they could have been in negotiations for months/years, which would give them some credibility... But seriously, the iPhone's been out for what, 3 years?
/me is starting to get sick of all the trolls...
If a man isn't willing to take some risk for his opinions, either his opinions are no good or he's no good
or on the ipod complaint..didnt the ipod come out around 7 years ago?
Where are these multi-touch Macs, and where can I buy one?
Considering many iPad pre-orders have tracking #s already, I suspect it might be a little late.
If their customs process works like the one in the U.S., they'll just throw all the iPads in a locked room, tell the would be recipients that they are just out the money and that they owe them for the costs of storage, destruction, and disposal and that furthermore, they may feel free to FOAD.
Thus proving that you didn't RTFA
you don't lose patents just by being slow to enforce them(I think they're already suing in any case).
It's trademarks you lose if you fail to enforce them.
copyright patents and trademarks are 3 completely different things even if people like to lump them together under "IP"
You don't actually lose your patent rights when not going after an infringement or a patent initially. The actual consequences depend on the jurisdiction. In most of Europe, for example, you would severely compromise your position in subsequent litigation, though. Especially if the opposite site can raise doubts whether you acted in good faith, e.g. you didn't know about the infringement, or out of malice, to make more cash by trollish litigation.
Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
Am I the only one who is seeing HTC buying this company?
Considering many iPad pre-orders have tracking #s already.. many iPad pre-orders.. who in their right mind would order, let alone pre-order a- hm nevermind.
Yes I know that prior art is not a slam dunk defense but with all of the prior art regarding 'multi-touch' I can't understand how these companies
managed to get it patented.
It seems that everyone has patented the idea except for the people that had it first!
And it appears that it was not Apple, Google, HTC, or even these guys....
I should patent something random and start to sue people myself, obviously someone is making money doing it.
This is Slashdot, where it's standard to not RTFA.
didn't they kinda give up their rights when they stayed silent when the iPhone launched three years ago?
You mean when they began patent negotiations, and finally sued for patent infringement a year ago? You can't sue for patent infringement until someone actually infringes on your patent. Two years is not a long time when it comes to doing research and preparing for a patent infringement lawsuit, and it was Apple who requested the trial be delayed so they could prepare. You might have a point if they had waited five or ten years, but at this point any patent infringement lawsuit against the iPhone is still within a reasonable time-frame. It is Apple who is delaying and stalling and generally being a douchebag toward the rest of the cell phone industry here.
This is Elan Microelectronics basically saying Apple should not be permitted to release a new potentially infringing product while they have litigation in progress that directly concerns the type product they are releasing.
I think their position is completely reasonable, but I'll admit I might think differently if I were an Apple fan.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
What's unique about Apple? I thought this was just how the whole (broken) system worked, and everyone did the same.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
This is why I don't want to take out patents for my invention. They don't seem to actually protect you from litigation, and they hinder the development and deployment of new technologies. Why should I have to wait until some worthless dipshit company's patent expires to buy an iPad? Why should there be a million lawyers involved in developing new technology (about the only people worse for technology than politicians are lawyers). Patents are a terrible idea. All the most successful technology companies simply ignore them (in a practical sense) and leave the issue for their lawyers to deal with.
[citation needed]
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/12/29/2143218/Nokia-Claims-Patent-Violations-in-Most-Apple-Products
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/10/22/1541220/Nokia-Sues-Apple-For-Patent-Infringement-In-iPhone
http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/01/28/2055209/Fujitsu-Readies-Lawsuit-Over-iPad-Name
http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/03/15/1854220/Nokia-Claims-Apple-Does-Legal-Alchemy-To-Mask-IP-Theft
http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/01/17/069258/Apple-Seeks-To-Ban-Nokia-Imports-To-US
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/01/14/1941208/Kodak-Sues-Apple-amp-RIM-Over-Preview-In-Cameras
http://apple.slashdot.org/story/09/12/11/2048248/Apple-Counter-Sues-Nokia-Over-Patents
Or just do slashdot search for apple patent or nokia patent..
A citation shouldn't be needed for things that have appeared on slashdot a dozen times, is in fact common knowledge, and is also so easily findable that even your grandmother could google it.
"His name was James Damore."
Elantech makes the multi-touch trackpads in the eeePC.
I have been following this story since April of 2009. This link http://www.billbuxton.com/multitouchOverview.html is the best explanation of how multi-touch technology was created.
A citation shouldn't be needed for things that have appeared on slashdot a dozen times, is in fact common knowledge...
Um... because if an article wherein Nokia claims Apple is infringing is proof of fault, and "common knowledge" that Apple is violating patents is equivalent to a court ruling?
Let's crowdsource the HTC v. Apple tangle, too. What does everyone think? Based on what we've seen from short press pieces and a flurry of Slashdot comments and the mood of the crowd, how should we decide their arguments?
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
I'm taking all of these Company A is suing Company B which is suing Company C messes as a clear sign that the patent system (and in extension the entire Intellectual Property system) is slowly imploding. These days you couldn't invent the wheel without someone suing you since they own patents on "crafting an item out of a material", "objects made of matter" or any other silliness (I'm sure some pro-patent shill is going to start whining about how patents are needed to protect the little guy and whatever but in all honesty, the little guy can't afford patents, and if he is able to afford a patent or two the corporate giants will simply say "that's nice, here are 50 of our patents you're infringing on, now what do you think of our offer to purchase your patents/company for $low_sum?").
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
True you don't lose your rights. The legal term you are looking for is laches.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Elan Micro Electronics just issued a press release We can sit by and watch competitors steal our patented inventions, or we can do something about it. We’ve decided to do something about it,” said Mr I. H. Yeh, ELAN MICRO ELECTRONICS CEO. “We think competition is healthy, but competitors should create their own original technology, not steal ours.”
Hi, I am OP.
Of course it is correct. However anything here on AppleDot.com that is even perceived as anti-Apple is immediately modded. Even your post got modded. Same as it ever was.
I am going to patent the patent system in the US, then sue everyone who has obtained a patent. Sadly, I am sure the U.S. Patent Office would issue me a patent, then continue to violate my patent. Of course, I am sure the courts will hear all of my cases, then issue injunctions against everyone. Shortly after that, someone would divide by zero and reset the entire world. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
1) Bit misleading IMO to talk about this in terms of a "multi-touch tech" company using "their" patents. The patent in question was granted in 1998... to Logitech (it was applied-for in 1996). The patent has changed hands since then. This company didn't acquire the patents in question until something like 2008.
2) Having read the patent, I don't think the iPhone and iPad infringe. Go read the actual text. Looks to me like it actually relates to touchpads attached to computers, used in an environment that was built around the mouse, and how to use multitouch gestures to improve trackpad functionality. So, yeah, if the patent is legit and all, I absolutely think the MacBook that lets you scroll with two fingers (emulating a mouse wheel) would infringe. But I don't think the iPhone or iPad (which were not designed around mice and don't really have a concept of a cursor as such) necessarily infringe.
Of course, IANAL, so nobody should trust me. Go read it yourself! Especially if you're a lawyer.
According to TFA, the patent in question is US Patent No. 5,825,352. According to the US Patent and Trademark Office, Steven Bisset and Bernard Kasser are the sole inventors (filed 1996) of the multi-touch tech - and Logitech was the assignee as of 1998.
According to this link, Elan was launched to do semiconductor R&D in 1994, per http://www.computex.biz/elan/
SO - unless Elan bought this Logitech something's terribly wrong with the article. Can anyone help me with this?
Elan is winning local awards, see - http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-200983370.html
but the idea that they themselves invented the tech on the patent in question is not accurate. Here's their list of their achievements - http://www.emc.com.tw/eng/about_elan1_3.asp
I'm a little confused here. Nothing wrong with selling technology and if Logitech did that, fine - but this sure seems like there's a lot more to this than "Apple rips off Taiwanese firm" - in my opinion.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
I don't really follow Apple closely so I was surprised to find out that the ipad doesn't have screen writing capability? I'd assumed it did since tablet PCs have that capability.
Short answer: No. The statute of limitations on patent infringement is six years. And in the case of ongoing infringement, even if you miss the six year mark from when infringement started, you can still get damages back to six years from when you filed your law suit.
Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
Apparently the patent in question, 5,825,352, has expired due to failure to pay maintenance fees as of Oct 20, 2006.
So if the patent is expired, what basis are they suing on?
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Supposedly, you don't lose the patents, but you may get significantly reduced damages if you wait until the defendant has been infringing on the patent for a long time before suing them.
The Nokia-Apple cross-complaint is a monster of a suit and if it goes all the way will take years to litigate. Nokia and Apple are each accusing the other of infringing their patents. My assumption is that they do both use each other's technology to some extent and the lawsuit happened because neither company was satisfied with the result of their patent negotiations.
The Kodak thing is a complete crock. Kodak didn't embrace digital until everyone else was doing it better than they were, so now they behave like a patent troll to stave off bankruptcy (they were pulled off DJIA in 2004 and they posted a $150 million loss last year). They've also sued RIM for the same ridiculous patent.
The Fujitsu iPad thing was the second time Apple has stepped on someone's toes for using an "i" name; others here will remember that Linksys/Cisco got into a spat with Apple over the iPhone name. Both situations were resolved when Apple essentially bought the trademarks outright. Also, trademarks aren't the same thing as patents.
What I want to know is this: why isn't there a compulsory license system for patents? No one should be able to hoard technological innovation. You don't necessarily need to publish all the steps to make your secret sauce so everyone else can do it, but if someone independently works out how to do whatever you're doing there ought to be (A) a standard formula for royalties and (B) absolute freedom to use anybody's patent so long as you pay them what you're supposed to.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt Apple suing HTC over, among other patents, multi-touch?
Actually, none of the patents involved in that suit relate to multi-touch. They are other older, generally more obscure things... possibly even a few "real" patents as opposed to just software patents.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Apple's gestures patents that are the issue in the HTC case are incredibly stupid, rivaling Amazon's one-click shopping. I'd say the patents covered here are also amazingly stupid, but they're more reasonable than Apple's patents simply by virtue of being lower level.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
I hope that apple will lose this battle if only to force them to pay license fee's for tech. They so often expect to walk over people due to their size and the little guys tend to loose thanks to a heavily bias legal system which requires large sums of money to fight your corner.
this isn't about elan micro's lawsuit, it's about them filing a complaint with the ITC, which only just happened.
oldspewey spewed:
." And "Hey, small fry! His portfolio is unzipped. Let's all jerk his patent. He won't fight back."
"I am secretly hopeful that this will eventually turn into a great big litigation circle-jerk."
Turn into? Isn't that what we've had for the last ten years? Big tech companies saying, "I'll let you jerk my patent if I can jerk yours . .
And then there are the trolls walking around fully exposed. "I got this biiggg patent from a friend, and you seem to be jerking it. Pay up! And pay up big!"
This big auto-erotic drama has taken the place of a working patent system. Patents are supposed to increase innovation. But under the current orgy, patents are government subsidized tools of aggression that can be hurled at a less-than-witting enemy.
I know the legal team running this lawsuit at Elan against Apple. Let's just say that: 1) they did legitimately invent technology before Apple/Fingerworks, 2) there was IP theft with employees and such, and 3) it's really hard to sue Apple.