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Geomagnetic Storm In Progress

shogun writes "The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reports a strong geomagnetic storm is in progress. The shuttle, ISS and GPS systems may be affected." They think this storm was caused by a weak solar flare on April 3rd. As you may expect, this has caused some unusually impressive northern lights since it started. What you may not expect is a photograph from Japanese astronaut Soichi Noguchi aboard the International Space Station showing the aurora from orbit. He apparently tweets a lot of pictures from space. He and his crewmates have taken over 100,000 pictures since coming aboard the ISS.

83 of 110 comments (clear)

  1. Geomagnetic data on the storm by dtmos · · Score: 4, Informative

    NOAA's Space Weather Prediction Center has a bunch of data on the storm, including the estimated 3-hour Planetary Kp-index, and a bunch of other data and alerts.

    A readable description of the relationship between geomagnetic events and aurora can be found here.

  2. Huh by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 2, Funny

    I wondered what set off my allergies this morning.

    1. Re:Huh by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      You mean, the auroras revoltingly looking like Windows Vista green-and-blue theme, only million times bigger?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:Huh by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

      No, the Windows Vista green-and-blue theme looks like a geomagnetic storm revoltingly infecting your computer. I'm also pretty sure this was a Star Trek episode or two.

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    3. Re:Huh by Pyrus.mg · · Score: 1

      Only one or two?

  3. Yet another stereotype confifrmed. by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Funny

    You know, Soichi Noguchi, you are doing very little to dispel the classic stereotype of Japanese tourists always with a camera around their neck, taking pictures of everything!

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:Yet another stereotype confifrmed. by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Informative

      Heh. Prepare to be downmodded by the overly sensitive. He's a good egg. I saw him on NASA TV doing one of their endless lame daily interviews with schoolkids, and he answered the inevitable "What do you miss most?" question with "A hot shower and cold beer". Ya gotta love an honest answer instead of the usual astronaut-speak.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    2. Re:Yet another stereotype confifrmed. by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      Look on the bright side: at least there weren't other pictures showing him getting in ridiculous and uncomfortable positions in order to take the pictures.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    3. Re:Yet another stereotype confifrmed. by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Hot showers and blow jobs are not mutually exclusive. Neither are hot cups of coffee and cold beers.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    4. Re:Yet another stereotype confifrmed. by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      Oh hell no, a Japanese guy thousands of miles from home taking thousands of pictures is exactly what I was going to point out. It's not going to be down modded at all.

  4. twitpic? by Locke2005 · · Score: 2, Funny

    What the heck is "twitpic"?!? It sounds like a web app that twits use to post their pictures... what's that you say? It IS a web app that twits use to post their pictures? Uh... I guess it is aptly name then.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:twitpic? by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 3, Funny

      A "twitpic" is a picture of Tom Cruise.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    2. Re:twitpic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Twitpic is a picture usually posted on a Twitter account. http://twitter.com/astrosoichi is the address for Mr. Noguchi's public Twitter account. His pictures are quite priceless.

    3. Re:twitpic? by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

      Or any other insensitive clod.

    4. Re:twitpic? by broknstrngz · · Score: 1

      I thought that was a twatpic.

    5. Re:twitpic? by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

      No, that's Ashton Kutcher. Or Britney Spears.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    6. Re:twitpic? by JesterJosh · · Score: 1

      Photos of the moonrise from space. There's about 17 of them today when I was looking. Amazing.

  5. Beautiful. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    But I'd love to see it without the vehicle obscuring it. It would help to get a better visual grasp of the structure of the aurora itself.

    From this you can see that the green glow is low and the red glow above it and diffuse. Without the obscuration you could get a better idea of the pattern of the intersection of the magnetically guided particle stream(s) with the atmosphere.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:Beautiful. by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      From this you can see that the green glow is low and the red glow above it and diffuse.

      You can't even see that. The pic is a long exposure (look at the stars for reference). Makes me wonder what a short exposure time would look like.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    2. Re:Beautiful. by KingArthur10 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The EXIF on that photo says 13 seconds at ISO 200 and f/2.8 with a Nikon D2Xs. Even though that camera is a 2006 model, I'd think it would have been able to take acceptable ISO800 photos which could chop that exposure down to about 3 seconds or so. I'm going to assume that the camera was modified to remove the Near IR/IR filter, but if not, that would definitely help the reds come through better.

      With less motion, the colors would have been able to compound better, and I'm betting that an ISO800 shot would have had better definition as the photon strikes would have a higher likelihood of compounding on top of each other rather than spreading across multiple pixels. Then again, I've never shot from space at an object moving 28,000kph relative to me. I'm guessing they don't have a TON of time to dink around with exposure settings, although 1000 tweets in, they must have a little spare time.

      --
      I came, I saw, She conquered.
    3. Re:Beautiful. by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

      He's taking pictures for fun and sharing them. Not for science, but for posterity or public interest, or "cool, look what I got to see". He's posting them for free. From the FUCKING SPACE STATION. 200 miles straight up in the air, traveling at 27 THOUSAND miles per hour, and is able to take pictures and post them on the internet. "Could you please move your hat sir, you're obscuring my view," is a reasonable request. "Could you please move your 300 tonne vehicle out of the way so I can see a few blurry colored pixels that a small part of your SPACE STATION is blocking, without which we wouldn't be able to see the picture at all," this is ridiculous.

      Thank you Soichi, thank you from 6.5 billion people on planet earth, except for "Ungrounded Lightning". For some reason he thinks he's an art critic, or the Space Lord Mothermother, or that you can lift an X-wing out of a swamp with the wave of your hand.

      Hopefully this puts it in perspective (choose one)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhWZ4gNqPP0
      http://www.blogjam.com/neil_armstrong/

    4. Re:Beautiful. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      I thank him too. In spades.

      My wish list was not in any way intended to be a gripe about how he did the wonderful things he has been doing. It was intended as an appreciation of what his posting has illustrated so beautifully and a speculation on what else might be done in the future (perhaps by others or even an official project), inspired by what he did so far, to extend it and produce an even more useful teaching aid or perhaps some new science data.

      I'm sorry my post was worded so that this wasn't clear to you and apologize to anyone else who might have misunderstood my intent.

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  6. I bet it'd look better on an iPad by Orga · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's too bad they couldn't have sent one up to them on the ISS, they could have used it to take pict... they could have twittered from... they could have at least used it to... hmmm

  7. How long do these last? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We're having cloudy weather (big surprise in the Seattle area), but it's sure be nice if this would last another 8-10 hours so we had a chance at seeing the aurora this evening. Unfortunately it's rare down here, and even rarer for it to coincide with a clear night...

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  8. Best. Space pic. Ever. by The+Bad+Astronomer · · Score: 4, Informative

    FWIW, I posted on my blog about this amazing pic from Soichi, explaining it a bit and giving my thoughts.

    --
    *** Phil Plait, aka The Bad Astronomer http://www.badastronomy.com
    1. Re:Best. Space pic. Ever. by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 1

      FWIW, I posted on my blog about this amazing pic from Soichi, explaining it a bit and giving my thoughts.

      Shameless blog promotion forgiven because I 3 Phil.

      And his post is, unsurprisingly, worth reading. Mod BA up!

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    2. Re:Best. Space pic. Ever. by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 4, Funny

      My <3 looks like an emoticon for mooning because my less than sign was removed.  Next time I'll preview.

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    3. Re:Best. Space pic. Ever. by The+Bad+Astronomer · · Score: 1

      I gave up shame ages ago. Helps me sleep at night! /srsly, thx. :)

      --
      *** Phil Plait, aka The Bad Astronomer http://www.badastronomy.com
    4. Re:Best. Space pic. Ever. by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Mooning? I read it as "I teabag Phil".

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  9. Duck and Cover!!! by Old+Sparky · · Score: 3, Funny

    ..!!

  10. Aurora Watch by cflange · · Score: 4, Interesting

    To watch the geomagnetic activity live, check AuroraWatch: http://corona-gw.phys.ualberta.ca/AuroraWatch/
    You can also subscribe to receive e-mail alerts about probable Northern Lights.
    From the website: "AuroraWatch forecasts are made by examining the behaviour of the Earth's magnetic field strength, which is measured by ground-based magnetometers."

    --
    Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my disk?
    1. Re:Aurora Watch by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      I use this site from the University of Alaska because it has forecasts and I live in Alaska.

  11. In other news... by canada_dry · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... Toyota has issued a statement asking Prius owners to wrap their cars in tin foil before driving.

  12. Holiday... by tonywestonuk · · Score: 2, Funny

    So, here I am in the middle of nowhere, with nothing but a 3g Dongle and suddenly this Geomagnetic storms£(*&^SGU &@*(&((clkxjnx..........NO CARRIER

    1. Re:Holiday... by mgrassi99 · · Score: 1

      I came here for a NO CARRIER joke, and Slashdot never disappoints.

  13. yay for govt! by morethanthesky · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is cool as it is on the heals of this story: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/03/23/0859257/Senate-Votes-To-Replace-Aviation-Radar-With-GPS in which airplanes will now rely only on GPS

  14. Stargate SG-1 by Anubis_Ascended · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This reminds me of the Stargate SG-1 episode "Window of Opportunity" where Earth and several other planets get stuck in a "Groundhog Day" type scenario, and only Jack O'Neill and Teal'c realize what's happening.

    1. Re:Stargate SG-1 by shogun · · Score: 1

      The original submission had tags referring to that episode but the editors have apparently removed it.

      Also why am I not surprised someone with 'Anubis' in their username is making the above post?

  15. Aurora by pastababa · · Score: 1

    Aurora is so beautiful yet its appearance means something devastating could potentially happen to our TV signal, our electricity gird, our internet, well... our entire life !

  16. tweeting in space by mathfeel · · Score: 1

    All his tweets are "from phone". What carrier gets reception up there is what I want to know.

    --
    The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the 'social sciences' is: some do, some don't
    1. Re:tweeting in space by Pyrus.mg · · Score: 1

      He's probably prototyping something for Richard Branson. Next up, Virgin Galactic Wireless.

  17. Re:Earthquake relationship ? by lordmatrix · · Score: 1

    To cause an earthquake, it would have to be a concentrated beam of EM energy, something that only man made technology can do. There are reports that HAARP was on at full power from a few days ago to a few hours past the Haitian earthquake. HAARP can cause earthquakes. Russians and Chinese have the same super weapons.

  18. Good idea by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 4, Funny

    Tell him to just lean out of the window for a better shot. What could go wrong?

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Good idea by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      At 28,000 kph? His head will be blown off by the wind!

  19. Re:I dont buy it by Aikar · · Score: 1

    so they are just going to randomly lie about this? for what gain? My phone signal surely has been affected by this. I usually have a solid full bars at work and i'm roaming atm.

  20. Oh dear by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Contrary to what you seem to believe, TV/Internet and electricity are NOT all there is to life. Yes really.

    Sure some slashdotters will die as they are exposed to the harsh rays of the sun when they wander outside for the first time but life will continue on. Some people with no healthy fear of hights will repair the cables and voila, everything be back to normal.

    We had power failures before. They are no big deal. Go outside, empty the fridge and have a party. You know. With girls... oh okay, you can remain in the kitchen and look through the window at them, while you build a computer out of egg-cartons.

    Mind you, I got a phone-jammer, that I sometimes use just for fun. It is amusing to see just how people react when their cell phone dies. Some really do react as if you cut the umbilical cord.

    In a way, it would be an intresting social experiment. Cut the power/internet over the entire globe and see how each culture/area reacts to it. Why do some disaster areas result in looting and rioting and others remain calm? You can't really compare disasters but a global strike like this would be easier to compare. Would there be riots all over? None at all? Only in certain economic areas? Or (oh boy I am going to get it for this one) does it depend on race? Culture? Local leadership?

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Oh dear by Kagura · · Score: 2, Funny

      I got a phone jammer too, so I can block unnecessary EM radiation from the nearby cell towers.

    2. Re:Oh dear by Xoltri · · Score: 1

      If you read books you might be interested to read One Second After by William R Forstchen. It's about an EMP blast that kills all electronic devices and the aftermath.

      --
      -Xoltri
  21. The real question is... by wandazulu · · Score: 1

    ...how will this affect my GPS for geocaching?

    Beautiful pictures, BTW...I have never seen them in person, they've got to be just that cooler from space. Space! SPACE!!!!

    Sigh, back to work in my little cube.

    1. Re:The real question is... by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      You're lost.

  22. Re:Earthquake relationship ? by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

    Yes. I just watched the movie 2012. Very scientific tribute to plate techtonics and neutron interactions causing some dude to be ground up in some gears used to close a door that were completely jammed by a power cable.

    --
    Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
  23. Re:Yet another stereotype confirmed. by sbeckstead · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now this should get down modded, Maybe it's a German camera did you ever think about that you insensitive clod!

  24. Photos of aurora by fyngyrz · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here are some photos I took of auroras generated by the leading edge of this GMF disturbance in northeastern Montana.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  25. Re:Yet another stereotype confirmed. by huckamania · · Score: 1

    If it was a German camera it would have gone Klink?

  26. sound like something out of Final Destination deat by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    sound like something out of Final Destination with a death like that.

  27. NOAA warnings make no sense at all... by mad+flyer · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm on their various maillists since I discovered that sensible electronic tend to crash better when there is solar activity. (My old Palm III was resetting it's memory everytime their was anykind of solar burps). But their annoucement are cryptical at best. And last evening their mail said that:

    Space Weather Message Code: WARK06
    Serial Number: 162
    Issue Time: 2010 Apr 05 1831 UTC

    CANCEL WARNING: Geomagnetic K-Index of 6 expected
    Cancel Serial Number: 161
    Original Issue Time: 2010 Apr 05 1427 UTC

    Comment: Earlier indications of anticipated geomagnetic storm activity are no
    longer present.

    NOAA Space Weather Scale descriptions can be found at
    www.swpc.noaa.gov/NOAAscales

    Which sounds like the opposite of the Slashdot summary...

    1. Re:NOAA warnings make no sense at all... by cybereal · · Score: 1

      Well that's because they realized it was actually 300,000 iPads searching desperately for the nearest WiFi hotspot all at once :)

      --
      I read the script, and I think it would help my character's motivation if he was on fire. -Bender
  28. Re:I dont buy it by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

    What isn't there to buy about a solar flare?

  29. Re:I dont buy it by unity100 · · Score: 1

    5-6 years into its most silent decade, sun suddenly bursts.

    isnt that too abnormal to believe ?

  30. Re:I dont buy it by unity100 · · Score: 1

    there may be some other reason.

  31. Thought the aurora was strange last night by mirix · · Score: 1

    I was outside last night at 3AM, and... instead of being sort of greenish and dancing slowly, they were, very dim, pale white, and were almost like... strobes, pulsing, instead of a slow dance. Neat stuff :-)

    --
    Sent from my PDP-11
  32. Re:I dont buy it by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

    No, not really. Its a giant ball of fusion, photons, plasma and gases that is 99.8% of the solar system's mass that is doing all kinds of crap under the surface that we can't see. Hell we don't really know what is going on down there under the surface.

    Why can't this giant ball of fusion have a medium sized solar flare this week without it being beyond the realm of possibility?

    What else would this be other than a solar flare?

  33. Re:I dont buy it by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

    And Space Weather shows the sunspot and SOHO shows the CMEs, not like its something the government is saying and there is no evidence of it happening.

    http://spaceweather.com/
    http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/realtime-images.html
    http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/pickoftheweek/

  34. MOO by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2, Insightful

    GNN NEWS FLASH:
    Geomagnetic Storm in Progress in the Sol System

    No ships may enter hyperspace during this turn.

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    1. Re:MOO by RichiH · · Score: 1

      Yay! MoO!

      Number one on my "why don't they open source it" list!

      PS: MoO2 & 3 sucked.

  35. Re:I dont buy it by unity100 · · Score: 1

    because it is TOO big to be that irregular. imagine, a huge ball of fusion, will stay silent for close to a decade, then just pop a single strong flare once, suddenly, 'hailing' a new era of activity.

    this is sun, a ball of fusion as you noted. not earth with its tectonic plates and a handful of existing outlets for magma trying to find its way out.

  36. Re:I dont buy it by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

    Well, can't really come up with any sources of solar weather that don't have something to do with a government, government agency or enterprise that has government funding so...

    Well, this little bit of solar weather isn't because its suddenly an active decade, its just a couple solar farts of CME and energy hitting the Earth.

    The sunspots and activity is coming back up and they aren't sure why or how, which isn't unusual because no one is really sure how it all works. I can link and you can ignore it because it is from SOHO which is an implement of NASA and ESA, so Feds and EU together, oh noes.

    http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/hotshots/2010_03_15/

  37. Re:I dont buy it by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The Sun isn't "silent", it pulses and puts out massive amounts of energy in irregular fashion all the time. Now for a few years of its 8-10 billion year life it just hasn't been putting out enough to mess things up 93,000,000 miles away.

    This week its sending out some energy, not a giant amount by its scale, just enough to screw with things and light up the sky.

    The ball of fusion does have a lot of movement on its surface and convection currents under the surface, its not a featureless racquet ball except for the occasional sunspot or CME.

  38. Re:Earthquake relationship ? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

    Has anyone ever tried to cross match Geomagnetic storms with Earthquake activity on the Earth ? Seems like a plausible connection ?

    Nobody wants to try it because as soon as the connection is made, we'll lose the GoldenGate Bridge!

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  39. Why are you being deliberatly Obtuse? by PhreakOfTime · · Score: 1

    That seems like something you should have looked up before making baseless assumptions.

    But then again, they wouldn't be baseless assumptions if you researched things before you asked them. Seriously, this isnt a classroom from the 1950's, you are already on the internet if you are posting here, how hard is it to look that up?

    While you are looking things up, you can build your own ground based magnetometer in your own house and see what happens during a geomagnetic storm, based on the same principles of science that are being used to measure the magnetic fields in space.

    Every question you just asked is irrelevant. Funny how science works like that.

    1. Re:Why are you being deliberatly Obtuse? by unity100 · · Score: 1

      you should wake up to the fact that every magnetic effect on a given planet does not have to come from the sun.

    2. Re:Why are you being deliberatly Obtuse? by PhreakOfTime · · Score: 1

      Surely, that was a typo. You meant to write 'come from the Earth'... not 'come from the sun', right?

      That is after all, what is being measured here. The prefix 'geo-' in geomagnetic storm the article is talking about means 'Earth'. That is where the field is coming from, the Earth. The sun is simply throwing charged particles into that field, again from the Earth, at a rate that hasnt been seen since 2006. This is producing storm level flux for the first time in a few years in the Earths' magnetic field

      For some reason, I feel you have too limited of a science background to understand what I'm saying to you, much less what the article is saying.

    3. Re:Why are you being deliberatly Obtuse? by unity100 · · Score: 1

      The sun is simply throwing charged particles into that field, again from the Earth, at a rate that hasnt been seen since 2006

      sun is not the only body that would create, or reflect particles coming towards it. any other planetary body in action can reflect a portion of whatever particle it is receiving to earth, if its nearby.

  40. Live in Alaska ... missed them again by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    I have been here 9 months and still have not seen any lights. I am unlucky or need to move farther away from city.

  41. Actually... by cybereal · · Score: 1

    It was the collission of electromagnetic energy from 300,000 iPads being turned on next to 700,000 people pretending they don't want one.

    --
    I read the script, and I think it would help my character's motivation if he was on fire. -Bender
  42. Re:I dont buy it by unity100 · · Score: 1

    i have deep mistrust of nasa due to their extreme closedness, cover-up and hushhush culture and their employer, us. govt.

    had it been an european space agency, i would at least be sure of som independency.

  43. Re:Earthquake relationship ? by pastababa · · Score: 1

    How about the White house, the Washington monument, Statue of Liberty, Empire State Building, Mt Rushmore... Apparently you are not watching enough disaster movies.

  44. he's also up there now with 3 chicks by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    so if the solar flare wipes out life on earth, our future is secured, in space, with a japanese dude and his harem

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/129536/Female-astronauts-set-off-on-space-mission/

    also, i think it would be fitting if the japanese dude and one of the chicks were the first to enter to space sex club, being japan is the world capital of weird sex

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  45. Re:I dont buy it by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

    SOHO is a joint operation of NASA and ESA. Unfortunately all the solar observation satellites up there are NASA or shared with NASA right now.

    So you don't trust NASA or the University of Alaska Fairbanks for solar weather, you don't trust the weather reports because NOAA gathers weather data and the US government put up the weather satellites?

  46. Re:I dont buy it by unity100 · · Score: 1

    no sir. not as long as those national security oaths are required to be signed by u.s. government for everyone getting involved in astronomy or space programs, including numerous 'security treaties that extend their tentacles to whomever is collaborating with them, including europe.

  47. Re:Yet another stereotype confirmed. by sbeckstead · · Score: 1

    That loud whirring sound is Werner Klemperer spinning in his grave.

  48. Re:I dont buy it by unity100 · · Score: 1

    well, you were rather low in the trenches. had you had any possibility of access to serious stuff, like an observatory time, or radio telescope, or direct video from the space station, things would be different.