Slashdot Mirror
Multimodal, Multitouch Gaming Gaining Traction
andylim writes "Several universities and commercial entities are developing multimodal, multitouch games, such as a card game using iPhones for individual hands and an iPad for public information, and an iPad Scrabble game that lets you use your iPhone to see your letter tiles. Of course, it's an extremely expensive setup right now, but over time it will become cheaper. It's also pretty cool, so why wouldn't you want to play board/card/strategy games like this?"
This looks pretty cool. I'm actually impressed.
I would not be interested since vendor lockin is not my bag. If you like that sort of thing go for it.
You run the risk of ruining pen and paper games by increasing the speed in which encounters get dealt with. GMs need time to BS and slow mechanics enable that. I'm sure there are other games where being efficient will detract from the social aspects of the situation. Slot machines are probably one of the best examples of such.
"Common sense will be the death of us all"
The only multitouch demonstration on any of the videos was rotating the playing cards (to little effect anyway).
Why is "multitouch" specifically such a buzzword, and not just "touch" on its own? Multitouch has so far had weird implications on what sort of appendage/stylus you can use on the surface, whereas single touch does not. Plus, you can effectively do pinch/zoom on a typically single-touch panel, just not rotations.
In the interest of truth, how about the commenters in this thread start by telling us if they own or have used at length an iPhone, Ipod Touch, or an iPad. I think that if we pay more attention to the people who have something that they know to add we might discover something useful here.
I mean, sheesh - if you want to see people holding forth on things they know nothing about you can always tune in the Fox channel. We're better than that here, aren't we? This "I heard it was bad so it must be" nonsense isn't doing anyone any good. It's a product, not a philosophical statement - so get down off of those high horses and let's discuss this like men and women.
Design something that requires eight iPads and thirteen iPhones to be playable.
All this article seems to claim is that some people are making them. And most of the ones the article mentions aren't even out yet. It remains to be seen if they'll "get traction".
The overall trajectory of hyper-realistic computer versions of traditional games reminds me of an old SNL parody of virtual reality: you put on a headset, and engage in an immersive story world, consisting of a 3d-rendered room exactly like the one you're sitting in. You pick up a 3d-rendered book from the 3d-rendered table beside you, and can read it, turning the pages in beautiful virtual reality. Unfortunately only about 5 words fit per page, due to technical limitations.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Why not just play the real games, rather than an electronic version of the game?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
"multimodal multitouch gaming"???? Sod that. How about... "Two pods, one pad".
Uhh, because I don't need to charge a board game? And so that if my board game runs out of batteries I still have a usable phone? And because a physical board game can be larger than an iPad so everyone doesn't have to crowd around it? There are countless reasons.
Make me a friend and I'll mod you up
Maybe it's because computers with 32-bit random number generators (pseudo or otherwise) can only generate 2^32 different permutations, which is a tiny fraction of the possible permutations of a deck of cards or a set of Scrabble tiles.
Despite the fact its a little Apple heavy at the moment; I don't see how this could be done with an eventual android tablet or OSS "Surface like" environment, with peoples platform of choice (phone/netbook/media device that has the ability to run programs). Yes its a little expensive to set it up but it can be kind of an interesting idea for gaming. Yes some of these games are easier to just do with the real objects, but I never discount someone trying to make it just to see if they can do it. This IS Slashdot right, I mean here people try to get DOOM to run on ancient ATM hardware.
"Multimodal, Multitouch Gaming Gaining Traction, Unfortunately"
It would seem like this form of geeky board gaming would be of great benefit to games that require a large number of identical pieces of several kinds, or games that require the player to remember math frequently. Settlers of Catan has a couple apps out for the iPhone that attempt to aid board game players.
One of the keys to these kinds of apps in the majority of board games (read: social board games; games that are determinable only to a few moves due to probabilistic influences), is that they should be helpful up to the point where the game's social aspect is affected. I've played games of Settlers of Catan with an iPhone application, and have found that the quickness of rolling dice on the device can quicken the pace without causing any social problems. But I would worry, again using Catan as the example, if we were to enable all forms of interaction to be represented in the application, that the social aspect would be gone and it would be no different than playing clever (or not so clever) AI in a video game version of the board game.
Some other considerations could be how making the game faster will affect how long people take on their turns (due to less time to think while it is not their turn), how much does the application allow players to cheat (Scrabble word completion, for instance; perhaps calculating probability may take a way what makes someone clever at a game (Catan, StoneAge, etc.), etc..
However, some games rely too much on complexity (Agricola, perhaps?), and having quicker turns (I suspect a simple digital aid won't be of much help for this game, but still) and removing complexity may reveal the good game that exists at its core, or the terrible game that was hidden by complexity.
My two cents, smothered in parenthesis.
Ghey
So I've owned an iTouch and a Macbook pro for about a year now, and I've gotta say, I'm *very* impressed with the touch capability and quality that these have. The responsiveness of the iTouch is great, which I'm sure everyone knows, but the multi-touchpad on the macbook pro is phenomenal to me. I don't know how I ever lived without that thing. It makes scrolling down pages, 'right clicking', going back or forward between pages, and tabbing to other programs a lot faster and a lot smoother. I never thought the biggest redeeming quality of a macbook would be the touchpad, but I'm just too impressed by that.
Not to mention, I also saw some windows laptops were coming out with multitouch pads... I'm very excited about those.
Weren't Monopoly, Trivial, Pictionary, Scrabble and all those board games already 'multimodal, multitouch games'? Will fanning yourself with an iPod feel so good as doing it with Monopoly's fake bills, when you win? :)
Anyway, multitouch tables will for sure be used as what we know today as board games (among many other uses). I'm not sure if they will replace them, but at least they will offer new ludic experiences. And I can easily imagine my living room table being a multitouch table where I can read, play games and control my electronic devices.
What's the advantage of four players with an iphone showing virtual cards and an ipad showing the display vs real cards in people's hands that they lay on a real table?
For typical games, nothing. In fact, the real cards are vastly superior. They are easily adjustable. They require low investment. They're lighter. They're more readily replaced. They are easier on the eyes. It's easier to adjust their layout to fit the set of people in the playing space. It goes on and on.
The only real reason to do this is to invent games that CANNOT be played with traditional equipment.
To pull an arbitrary selection out of the air, you can't play world of warcraft with some cards and tiles. So there could clearly be new games invented that took advantage of this, but traditional games are going to fit poorly.
-josh
why wouldn't you want to play board/card/strategy games like this?
Because then they're no longer board games. Part of the fun factor of these games comes from the physical board and pieces. The components can be quite beautiful in some games (Euro-games especially). The tactile nature of the game is part of its appeal.
There's no denying that multi-touch screens are cool, but (shock, horror) the real world can be even cooler! I happen to like holding cards in my hand, and dragging a bunch of wooden pieces around an expansive, beautifully artistic board.
This might be an odd claim to make on /., but not everything can be improved by putting it on a computer.
Where is the law that says we can't have both? If I buy something like this, I won't throw away my board games, but it can be a nice complement for certain occasions when I don't have them handy or in games through the interwebs.
Dilbert RSS feed
Wow. This brings back memories of the old Atari 800 games that used four plug in controllers to play. I remember one of their greatest was a four player game FIRST FOUNDER. Very competitive bidding game where no one knew what the other players would do each turn that accounted for hours of fun in the old days. I could see how a porting of some of the war games onto iPAD with such controllers would also be a big hit. I would spend the money to get such a system and await one of the iPADs with AT&T internet connection later this spring. (We now own a 32GB and 64GB iPod touch between my wife and I enjoy reading Amazon & public domain books on it where ever we are as we voyage on our boat)
Yes, but your complement costs 20 times as much, for just one pad. It's a great idea, but the economics aren't flattering, even if the price drops to $200. Unless the iPad(s) or similar become ubiquitous, but I don't see that happening.
True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
Some of the games on the GameCube that took advantage of the GBA linkup were awesome. There was a free Pacman game that was one of the best multiplayer GC games out there; 3 people controlled the ghosts on the screen and each had a limited field of vision, and 1 person controlled pacman on the GBA and could see the whole screen. It was an awesome game!
Can't remember if it was even released outside of Japan (or maybe it was bundled free with something else...)
And because a physical board game can be larger than an iPad so everyone doesn't have to crowd around it?
Coming soon ... the iBoard. Offering a massive one metre square multimodalmagictouch screen, at only twice the price of the iPad. It's bigger, so everyone will want one. It'll be even more popular than an iPad!
It may have a niche market now, but it isn't going to be The Next Big Thing, at least not for a while.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Microsoft has prior art on the big ass table computing concept.
This is similar to the first ebook readers. It's a good concept that can provide a number of advantages, but the technolgy isn't mature enough for widespread adoption and it will never completely replace the analog version. If you happen to have any of: iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch and a high enough percentage of your friends have similar, than you could implement this right now for effectively the cost of the software (using hardware you bought for other reasons in a new way). Furthermore in the future when the multitouch device market is more diverse and mature than it will be both more common for people to have a compatable device, and less costly to buy a "complete" setup. Not to mention the posability for bord games with increased complexity being able to appeal to a wider market (complex scoring systems, physics based movment, etc).
I can imagine there are a number of old-school cardboard chit and hex-grid era wargames that would be loads of fun if a computer can do all the calculations for you. There are also CCGs that are streamlined by a virtual tabletop, and Diplomacy would benefit from every player using an instant messanger during the discussioin phase.
This model of gaming will only get better and become more widespread as technogy improves to meet it's demands.
After seeing the scrabble demo I couldnt help but think that cards games especially CCG's like Magic, Pokemon or whatever else is popular now could be a great use of this. Sort and manage your deck on the handheld then play the cards by "flicking" them towards the slate. Add in some animated "battles" and you could really have a cool new way to play without loosing the traditional gameplay elements. Booster packs could be sold online so you could customize the deck.
I really want to see an archon/battle chess refresh as well. Kinda weird to think of a slate as being a social object but now that its out there I can see the possibilities . I had always figured MS's surface would be the first out of the gate with something like that, but it looks like HP, Apple and Archos are beating them to the punch with the added bonus of portability.
The dirty secret of the computer industry and gaming in the 1990's -- by sheer person-hours Solitaire was actually the best game ever! (With Tetris a close second.) It was also the real "Killer App" for Windows.
Just like I don't have to throw away my physical boards, I don't have to keep a tablet just for gaming. This is just one more advantage.
Dilbert RSS feed
I tried to love iPhone gaming. Unfortunately the touchscreen display has many problems when game controls are ported to the iPhone unchanged. You will want to eat babies as you're trying to control your character using a virtual d-pad or the built-in acceleromater. I'm glad touchscreen devices might finally get more games designed specifically for them.