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How Do I Create a Spiritual Game Successor?
An anonymous reader writes "I've recently been on a legacy video game binge, reliving the nostalgic days, when I realized that one of my favorite old games can be vastly improved with a few tweaks. This game is pretty much made for a controller, so I would love to get it done on Xbox Live, but doing it on the PC is just as viable. Unfortunately, I am pretty sure the game is not in the public domain yet. Based on previous stories covered here, some companies are all for community made successors while others choose to give them the crushing blow from the start. My question is: how far is too far when one is trying to make a spiritual successor? I do not intend to copy any materials, but it would be lovely if I could incorporate some game design ideas (very general level design, movement, and just one or two game features)."
Pray for inspiration and success?
.... Lie.
Alley Cat was indeed an awesome game.
But I don't think adding LOLcats is going to improve it.
Would someone playing your game who had played the other one realize yours is based on the older? If not then I don't see what the big deal is, as far as I know you can adapt general gaming ideas (though IANACL).
1) accept zero money
2) gpl / lgpl
3) funky name that barely hints at the original
4) original artwork
unless the company happens to be in an IP troll mood, you'll probably be fine
to contact the IP holder?
You could try Hare Krishna
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
If it is an individual who wrote the original game, ask them for permission. Both times I've asked, I've received permission.
If it is a faceless mega-corporation, avoid using images, music, or names from the original game, but unless they have a patent on the look-and-feel or game mechanics (never heard of the later), you can just code away.
For my platman (old Amiga game) remake for the GBA, you can get it on my web page. (www.greasybastard.com)
Also see freeciv, and any of the two-or-so decent Wing Commander Privateer remakes.
---
Play Six Pack Man. I
I have more fun making the games than I do playing them.
Well, you can just tell people you're working on Duke Nukem Forever and a Day. As long as you never finish, you've succeeded at making a spiritual successor.
So you played this game. You thought it was cool. You want to give others that cool experience that you liked so much.
Instead of copying the game concepts, invent something new. Go a level beyond the original. Give other people that "Wow - this is really cool new game" experience, not the "Wow - this is a really cheesy knockoff of ${GAME}".
I understand that learning to write games well without copying someone else's game is like learning to play guitar without _Stairway to Heaven_. That's fine; we've all got our Asteroids copies wasting bits on our hard drives. But copying games doesn't really bring anything new and good to the community:
If game writing is your passion, do it well. The big studios are not going to produce the creative, fun-to-play kind of games that an independent developer can. You are not competing with them - you have a range of freedom the professional game developer can only dream about. Use it. Be a blessing to other gamers, not the studios.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
I think you should be able to make a very similar game as long as you do not direct copy the graphics or the name I do not think you should encounter much trouble.
Just never say anymore then that it was inspired by the game.
I am in no way an expert, but (very general level design, movement, and just one or two game features) should be fine.
Pretty much every single FPS has similar moment and features anyways.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
I never expected Alleycat to get into my life again.. So much fun, so boring game.. But when all you had is CGA and you had completed Kings Quest, a few minutes of Alleycat was.... interesting ;-)
I do not intend to copy any materials, but it would be lovely if I could incorporate some game design ideas (very general level design, movement, and just one or two game features).
If you aren't going to use any of their art assets or written copy, you don't use any of their trademarked names or characters, and you don't violate any patents they may have received on features (probably not an issue) then I don't see what the problem is in the first place.
They can't do anything to you just for imitating the general game play. Commercial games do that all the time. Look at something like Dragon Age - the engine and game play feels a LOT like a spiritual successor to Neverwinter Nights - Bioware just dumped their D&D license and created all of their own story line and assets.
The only reliable level that is acceptable is to use the same game the same engine, and just make new custom levels for it. Anything more than that will end you up in hot water for sure.
IANAL, but according to conventional wisdom you can legally copy the gameplay of a game. You can make a clone of a game that has more than a passing resemblance (exact same game mechanics, similar visual style) without running afoul of copyright law, and there's tons of examples of this for both commercial and open source games.
However, you can't can't use any of the original character names, place names, or level design without the permission of the license holder. I'm not sure how far you could go recreating the story/plot.
Of course, you should strive to create something more than a clone, but don't feel afraid to build on the successful game design ideas from an existing work. The big problem with most fan games is that they want to build on an existing *universe*, which is on legally shaky ground especially without a firm signed commitment that it's OK to do so.
Shoot first (Invasion 3D). Ask questions later.
Yahtzee did a tutorial video on this which he cleverly disguised as a review of the game Bioshock:
Zero Punctuation: Bioshock
To paraphrase, "Bioshock isn't like System Shock II, it is System Shock II.... the bad guy might as well be Shodan with a waistcoat and a copy of Atlas Shrugged... PSI powers are now Plasmids, the Hybrids are now Splicers and the wrench is now... well it's still a wrench but a different sort of wrench... everything that was cyberpunk then is steampunk now..."
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
Don't use trademarked names or logos or anything so close it would create confusion. E.g., PocMan, or PacMen or PacPeople are too close to Pacman, but ChomperMan, PelletEater, GhostEater, etc, are okay.
Don't use the original copyrighted materials. Artwork, exact text, etc, are all verboten.
Beyond that, you're basically okay. Game rules/mechanics specifically *can't* be patented (or copyrighted, of course) in the USA. That doesn't mean that there aren't patents purporting to do so out there. There is long-standing precedent in the courts to that effect. However, "software patents," which are method patents, and which are only enforceable in the USA currently, might cover any innovative bits of code in the original -- but basically not if the game was released before, oh, the State Street decision in 1998, to be safe.
Get everything CLEARLY in writing if you get the IP owner on board with it. They can act enthusiastic now and screw you over later.
Does it right. Make a great "thing", once the newness begins to fade, cut loose and start something different
Well, maybe that sounds strange, but how about just asking the company?
I am still trying to picture a spiritual game.
Do you steer a character up into the mountains to assume the Lotus position and meditate on the oneness of the world?
Are you attacked by demons, but instead of shooting them (Doom) you cast them out with prayer (obviously a movie spin-off from The Exorcist)?
Do you pass through increasingly higher levels of virtue as your avatar accumulates Love, Peace, Hope, etc?
It is an interesting idea anyway - spiritual enlightenment through game playing: the 21st century religion.
I am anarch of all I survey.
Once again, Slashdot is not a lawyer. Ask one.
Disagree != mod troll.
IANAL, but according to conventional wisdom you can legally copy the gameplay of a game.
US Copyright Office form letter 108 agrees with you. But that doesn't mean a company with more money to spend on lawyers than you will leave you alone. The Tetris Company in particular attacks any unlicensed tetromino stacking game that has any sort of revenue stream.
Wisdom Tree's games weren't licensed by Nintendo. They were licensed by God.
People create "spiritual sucessors" all the time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Maryo_Chronicles
http://openlynks.sourceforge.net/
http://www.solarus-engine.org/
"Unfortunately, I am pretty sure the game is not in the public domain yet. "
Since there are no video games I'm aware of that pre-date 1923 (US copyright law), I'd say that's probably right.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
No, it can't. That's why it's classic. Stop trying to update old games and just go play the old one.
It's ridiculous that people think they can improve on old games and end up with an absolute disaster of a game because they think 3d adds a lot to old games (in most cases, it doesn't), or better graphics (mostly no), or adding some ridiculous tweaks to unbalance the old games.
Leave them alone. You want to play an old game, go play the old game.
You should look at the copyright law governing games and then talk to an IP lawyer. But, my understanding, and I am not a lawyer, is that so long as you don't copy the look and don't steal any images or sounds made for the original game. You are pretty much in the clear. A spiritual successor is OK. Consider, that anyone can write a story using time travel or warp drive, but you get in trouble if you have warp drive ships named the NCC Enterprise that looks like the one in Star Trek. But, you can have a ship named Enterprise. There have been many ships named Enterprise in real life. Another way to look at it is Doom versus all the other 3d FPS games ever made. They are all spiritual successors to Doom (or that castle game ID did first.) But that was inspired by first person games from way before then. OTOH, it is very hard to make a spiritual successor to Scrabble because you can't do Scrabble any other way. But, it would be easy to do a non-infringing spiritual successor do Risk (Dicewars), or Monopoly, or...
You do need to make sure that there are no patents on the game. If there are, you can just work around them. Or, if the game is old then it the patents may have expired.
Like I said, read the law. It is online. And, if you have any doubts talk to an IP lawyer.
Stonewolf
I recently ran into a very similar situation with a software project of my own. And I did consult a lawyer.
Take your design. Sample images, logos, and gameplay design to a lawyer, especially one who does copyright work. Take the original game (or screenshots and descriptions) as well.
They should be able to give an opinion. If their opinion is that you're two close, then find some ways to make the game different in a way you feel is better until the lawyer says that it is different.
Once he says it is different, he can give you an "opinion letter" to that effect. Then, if you are sued his malpractice insurance will cover you.
In my case I was using some graphics in my software that were similar to graphics found elsewhere, but what I did was somewhat different and due to other circumstances, he explained why the other party would have no case and he would give me an opinion letter and if he is wrong his malpractice insurance would be responsible.
Figure out what it is that you really like about the game. Then make a game that does something similar, and conveys the essence of what you like.
For example, the essence of "Asteroids" would be a game where you pilot a space ship in 2D, with a simplified physics model (if you stop firing the engines, your ship will actually slow down and eventually stop due to some sort of highly unrealistic "friction" in space) and you busily dodge and shoot things. You could make a game that isn't called "Asteroids", doesn't have vector graphics, and has somewhat different rules, but it would still capture the essence. It doesn't matter if your rocks are kind of ugly or your sound effects are lame, but it does matter if the controls for the ship are sluggish to respond, or the game animation is jerky, that sort of thing. Sound effects and rock graphics are easily upgraded later; focus on the soul of your game. (I used to play Asteroids, and it wasn't because the graphics were so good or the music was so great. In fact, there was no music, although that sort of "heartbeat" sound effect was kind of cool for the day...)
Once you have your core gameplay, you may start having original ideas that may take you in a new direction. Suppose you added gravity to your spaceship game, and the player has to fly in and out of cave networks, shooting little bases and collecting stuff? (That one is called "Gravitar".) Suppose you shoot rocks, but they don't blow up, and little crystals come out and you collect them? Then add a giant lion-faced robot boss... (That one is called "Sinistar".) So, don't call your project some lame name like "Asteroids Clone"; it may not end up being a clone. You could call it some goofy name like "Nexuiz" and thanks to the miracle of the Internet, people would still find out about it (if it's worth finding out about).
Also, here is a meta hint that applies to any free software project: focus on what you are good at, and make something that is usable even if limited. If you make a game that is quite playable, but just has one level that repeats over and over, you may attract a fan base and someone may volunteer to write a new level for it. If your music is weak, someone who is a musician may donate some better music. But nobody will volunteer to take a broken mass of code that doesn't even compile, and help you sort it out. Successful free software projects build a community and some momentum, but you won't get a community or momentum without making something that actually works.
I suggest an informal "agile" approach. Get something working, no matter how limited and lame. For example, a ship that flies around. Then add some feature, and get that working too. Say, rocks. Then keep adding things: collision detection (ship must dodge), ship gun, rocks splitting when hit, a score counter, etc. At each step, get something that works and check it in to a source control system before you go on.
I use an informal agile approach on just about everything I do. If you are making a truly complicated game that needs crazy amounts of design, even then I suggest doing the agile thing... just design the broad outlines, then pick some easy corner of the project and start there.
Especially in a project you are doing in your spare time for fun, this style of developing is a good idea. And in true open source style, consider making all your little incremental releases publicly available. If you are lucky, you may start to build a little community even while you are still at the pre-alpha stage.
P.S. If you are looking for a project, please consider the Activision "Battlezone" game. It was an odd hybrid of a real-time strategy game and a first person shooter, and I enjoyed it thoroughly. If I ever tackle a game project like you are proposing, it would be this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlezone_(1998_video_game)
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
As long as you don't directly copy any of the art, assets, code or writing, you're free to do whatever the hell you want. Even ripping off the setting as long as you change the names is fair game. Doing tile for tile remakes of the levels (if it has such a thing) might be pushing the boundaries, so I'd stay clear of that too, but pretty much any game mechanic has been copied a million times over so you're safe ripping that off to your hearts content. That's what the professionals do, too.
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
... that you can find out these basic questions on your own.
What is that it you mean?
* Legally? You might want to do some more serious research what can and cannot go and don't want to rely on some half-assed slashdot answers.
* In regard to content in general? If you cannot come up with the basic ideas of your re-design than some comments on slashdot won't help you.
* In regard to "content that resembles the old game"? See the first point; and the second. Really, if you cannot come up with things that are cool or will trigger some nastalgia in people...then a few comments on slashdot will help you.
You cannot even formulate a proper question that will get you the "right" answers you want. Have fun with your game but right now, I'd be surprised if it goes anywhere.
There, fixed that for you.
I look forward to the next new game that does not use any concepts that appeared in a previous game.
Leave the IP alone, make your game play just like it. Voila, "spiritual successor".
It's not for nothing that this is the same formula for creating a "ripoff." It either depends on who you ask, or whether you're the creator of the original. (Don't ask me, it never made any sense to me either)
(Posted AC because logins are 503ing again)
The Curse of Monkey Island I and Street Fighter II have recently experienced "remakes" on xbox live.
They both offer the option to "stick with classic view" or "shiny new remade graphics". They also offer the possibility of switching from one to the other.
I suggest you do the same: a "classic mode", with gameplay conserved from the original, and a "new mode" with improvements.
See Ultratron and Titan Attacks at puppygames.com
These are a bit closer to original than 'spiritual successor' but so well executed they're hard to ignore.
I have read most of what's been written here, and I agree with many of the points made. I, myself, am working on a spiritual successor to a game, and I've implemented many of the ideas already expressed.
1. Do not copy Image, Story, Scenario, etc. My game is based on the concepts behind the original Metroid and Metroid Zero Mission. I have changed the scenario so that while the 'mission directive' is nearly identical to Metroid's, the story takes a sharp turn away from Metroid's almost immediately, and continues to take the player further and further from the scenario from Metroid.
2. Do use game play elements without blatantly copying. My game uses many weapons that are nearly identical to those from the Metroid series, while others have unique properties that clearly distinguish them. I believe this will give my game a very Metroid like feel, without actually violating any of Nintendo's IP.
3. Make sure the game is fun. I haven't yet reached the testing stage, so I don't know exactly how my game will feel, but I have no intention of considering the game finished until I know how much fun the game is, while still maintaining the difficulty levels I'm aiming for. However, I've also made certain to include game elements that will draw the player deeper into the game experience (such as making items that can be seen early into the game, but not accessed until later, after gaining new strengths). If you can't keep the player's attention, your game won't be playable.
All in all, I say enjoy yourself, take your time, and do your best to avoid copying the game while still making it challenging and entertaining.
Ask your lawyer.
Seriously.
Most of us are unqualified to give legal advice. If you think the lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client, you should hear stories from the lawyer who represents some idiot who relied on slashdot.
I am not a lawyer, I am not qualified to give legal advice, and so on. When I have asked lawyers about things like this, they have told me that, in general, you cannot copyright a game, only the source code and art assets and other "creative works". Ideas themselves cannot be copyrighted. The obvious famous case is Allen v. Academic Games (think I got the name right, too lazy to check).
But start by figuring out what you want, what your risks are, what you're willing to do if confronted, and so on. And then... TALK TO A LAWYER. Or do something that isn't related enough to be conceivably affected.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
A single game can be good enough to spawn a genre.
Is this one?