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VisLab Sponsors Milan-to-Shanghai Driverless Trek
incuso writes "VisLab announced the most advanced challenge so far ever organized for autonomous vehicles. Two driverless electric cars will perform a trip from Italy to China to demonstrate the feasibility of autonomous driving in real traffic conditions. Each vehicle will be equipped with five laser scanners, seven cameras, GPS, inertial measurement unit, three Linux PCs, and an x-by-wire driving system. The mission will start on July 10 in Milan, Italy, and will reach Shanghai, China, on October 10 (10/10/10) on a 13,000 km route though Italy, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Romania, Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan, and finally China."
Should an autonomous car be called an auto-automobile?
These are " non-polluting and no-oil based ... vehicles" created as examples of "sustainable mobility ... central to the [World] Expo"
Autonomous is not really an accurate description: Humans will control the first vehicle. The second will follow the route of the first.
I expect China will disassemble, reverse engineer, and then copy these vehicles en masse. [[//satire]]
Who fuels the cars on the way? Do they know how to spot gas stations and ask the gas station attendants to fill them up? How do they pay?
that it is probably illegal to drive such an automaton in real traffic in any country, incl. "Italy, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Romania, Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan, and finally China."
Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
... China on October 10 (10/10/10) on a 13.000 km route though Italy, Slovenia, Croatia, ...
Sorry for the confusion folks, that's thirteen THOUSAND km, not thirteen point zero zero zero km.
Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
I think I would rather not be the CEO of the first company who's "autonomous" system exhibits "Toyota" like behavior.
The first avoidable death attributed to such systems should see the end of this nonsense.
I cannot however, argue with the ecologically friendly developments that this experiment will hopefully promote.
I just saw the route on the map and man, are they going a looong way just to avoid the middle east conflict zone!
From TFS:
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
Does this great race come with a Natalie Wood ride-along and a pie fight in eastern Europe?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
do they autonomous control them too? No doubt that those cars can navigate their way to China the technology exists and this is a nice proof of concept. But human behavior especially on the road is not very rational. You need a lot of AI to interpret such behavior in a way to avoid all kind of trouble and sounds like a real quest to me.
Whatever happens, let's pray the two cars can't communicate with each other lest Skynet become self aware.
So, to "demonstrate the feasibility of autonomous driving in real traffic conditions" they are sending the cars not only through areas that, for the most part, have fuck all traffic, but also on a trip that practically no-one would do anyway. Well done.
This bit caught my attention:
I'm reminded of the time when I was growing up that we had garbage men hanging off the back of city-owned garbage trucks. Yeah we liked it that way, just as we liked most of the guys doing the work for us. Unsurprising (or not), it was also a time when a single-earner paycheck could support a family.
But let's put nostalgia aside and embrace the promise of cutting edge green technologies that offer cost efficiencies for governments and businesses alike, I wonder what, if this technology is successful and widely used (bound to happen sooner or later), will happen to the livelihoods of, say, UPS and FedX drivers? Or postmen, bus drivers, cabbies and pizza delivery drivers? If they're to be considered the buggy drivers of tomorrow, what form will a job for the ordinary guy graduating high school take? Seems those kinds of jobs are increasingly eliminated with little or no acknowledgement of the consequences.
I don't know the degree to which solutions for the Municipality of Rome would apply in the US, but I expect the concept of getting fastfood without having to drive to the drive-thru (or, with sufficient automation, remove any need for you get off the couch) would have near universal appeal. As would getting rid of cab drivers. Everyone hates cab drivers, right?
Disclaimer: Readers of this post may note that it has fuck all to do with cheese (aside from the possibility that the poster has watched too many episodes of Wallace and Grommit). My excuse is that I've just now discovered that when making a post, the Subject field offers a pre-populated set of choices. If the powers that be at Slashdot considers those valid, legitimate and appropriate Subjects, then cheese it is. Hmm. Maybe I am feeling a bit peckish?
...And thank you for not performing these tests anywhere near my hometown.
Have they ever seen those in Russia? The whole road is an obstacle! http://www.tandrag.com/images/uploads/russian_highway.jpg
Disclaimer: Readers of this post may note that it has fuck all to do with cheese (aside from the possibility that the poster has watched too many episodes of Wallace and Grommit). My excuse is that I've just now discovered that when making a post, the Subject field offers a pre-populated set of choices. If the powers that be at Slashdot considers those valid, legitimate and appropriate Subjects, then cheese it is. Hmm. Maybe I am feeling a bit peckish?
I would suspect that the contents of the subject field depends on what you've entered there before, as per your browser's record of such things for filling in forms automagically..
You can take your argument to its logical conclusion. When we create advanced robots with strong AI, then every job in the world won't be good enough for humans. Even the smartest and strongest won't be able to make a living.
Government intervention is the only solution for cab drivers, etc. Help them find new jobs and fund their education, at least with loans. Better than having society break down with a large unemployed population.
It strikes me that such enterprises always start in Western Europe and end in the Far East. Anybody have an idea why it's not the other way around?
The original silk road sadly leads to territories which are politically to unstable.
When renting a car in a western European country, the first thing that Hertz will tell you, is that you are not allowed to drive the car to an eastern European country. Because "the car will not make it back." Hertz says the same thing when you rent in Texas: "You cannot take this car to Mexico".
So what anti-theft-AI is planned for these vehicles? Maybe those lasers can do more than just scan?
A car loaded with so much luxury high-tech accessories would surely make a tempting target for a thief. Maybe the cars will just autonomously disappear?
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Where I live I stand the following risks...
1 in 2 chance of death from heart related problems.
1 in 25 chance of death from cancer.
1 in 5000 chance of death from road traffic accident (pedestrian or driver).
The percentage risk of death from road traffic accidents has not risen in the last ten years.
Better planning, requiring local bodies to consider the impact of new structures and sub-divisions of old, in regards to road capacity availability as a PRIORITY, would be a start. Further better planning for the location of the premises for local services rather than the focus on cost. Forcing businesses to have a set percentage of workers arrive via public transport is still another idea perhaps even prompting businesses to move to the workers rather than the other way around.....
Just not autonomous vehicles.
In Russia there always been two problems: fools and roads.
It's really interesting how these super-cars shall overcame that problems.
The first vehicle will drive autonomously in selected sections of the trip and will conduct experimental tests on sensing, decision, and control subsystems, and will continuously collect data. Although limited, human interventions will be needed to define the route and intervene in critical situations.
The second vehicle will automatically follow the route defined by the preceding vehicle, requiring no human intervention (100% autonomous). This will be regarded as a readily exploitable vehicle, able to move on predefined routes; at the end of the trip, its technology will be transferred to a set of vehicles to move in the inner part of Rome in the close future.
pretty much every advance in technology leads to someone losing their job.
"Computer" used to be a profession.
Sitting in a bank, adding up columns of figures all day and doing simple calculations(distinct from an accountant.).
What happened to all those people who were put out of work?
knitting and weaving cloth used to be a common profession.
Now massive looms create huge volumes of cloth for a fraction of the cost.
every one of these advances has put people out of work but every one has created a handful of other jobs and made society wealthier as a whole.
Sure it sucks for the weaver put out of work but it's great for everyone else who can now buy a pack of 3 shirts for 5 bucks rather than it costing a weeks wages.
The computers may be out of a job but the electronics that replaced them make banking far cheaper and allow for far smaller and cheaper transactions.
If cabbies were put out of a job then the cost of hiring a cab could be massively reduced.
If hiring a cab cost me cents not euros then why would I even bother buying a car?
And so I and the rest of society would be wealthier.
"UPS and FedX drivers Or postmen, bus drivers, cabbies and pizza delivery drivers"
their jobs will be gone but when they get new jobs it will be far cheaper if they want to send a package, catch a bus, take a taxi or order a pizza.
Where I am, the gangs of men hanging off the back of trucks have long gone, they now have one man per dustcart with an arm which reaches out to the kerb, grabs a wheelie bin and dumps it in the top. The old-style, rear-loading dustcarts are only common for things like municipal bins and at the universities where bins are often in awkward locations (and even there, they usually use wheelie bins).
Since a wheelie bin is a standard size and shape (and usually colour, although you do see painted ones now and then), automating the process of picking up the rubbish would be pretty trivial as CV projects go. I would not at all be surprised if these become automated within 5 years of this technology becoming mainstream.
Pizza delivery and postmen would still be important because ensuring deliveries go the the right house is still too hard for AI to manage reliably. Bus drivers would probably be moved to being ticket inspectors/conductors, since you still need someone to deter fare evasion (although social pressure does a reasonable job on my normal route) and safely operate the disabled ramp on suitably-equipped buses. There is also a hard-AI problem of spotting potential passengers running for the bus.
Yes it's a good idea. 10 years ago I would have said there is no way in hell this will ever take off in North America. It's part of the American Psyche to go on long road trips in 'your' car. 'You' own the road.
These days... with the amount of cell phone calling, texting, eating, shaving, movie watching and drinking etc.. that people do, while they are supposed to be controlling their vehicle... I can see autonomous vehicle upgrades being a #1 seller aftermarket add on in just a few years. If you can remove the need to have a license to be 'in charge of a moving vehicle' (not in control), I can also see the need for full service pumps coming back.
Also imaging what this will do to the cost of 'parking' downtown...
Wake up. Get in car. "Good morning Car, take me to work." Wash face, shave. "Oh wait. Starbucks/Tim Hortons/(ok Mc Donalds) first." Drink coffee etc... Watch morning news. Get out of car. "Good car. Go park somewhere free or go home. Don't forget to run from the meter maid. I'll see you at four." (16:00 for those of us that prefer it).
== work work work ==
(Incoming call) "Hello" "Thank you car"
== work work ==
Walk out the front door at work at 16:02. "Hi Car". Get in. "Let's go" Have a nap.
---
Feminism: I was going to change the example to but then I realized that shaving while in traffic would have an entirely different meaning.
Who is vislab? As far as I can tell it was just a research group at a university. Does that make the university responsible for anything that goes wrong? It is one thing for DARPA to stage it. They gave people over a year and each team had to prove ability in stages. It sounds like vislab is giving this a free for all.
But let's put nostalgia aside and embrace the promise of cutting edge green technologies that offer cost efficiencies for governments and businesses alike, I wonder what, if this technology is successful and widely used (bound to happen sooner or later), will happen to the livelihoods of, say, UPS and FedX drivers? Or postmen, bus drivers, cabbies and pizza delivery drivers? If they're to be considered the buggy drivers of tomorrow, what form will a job for the ordinary guy graduating high school take? Seems those kinds of jobs are increasingly eliminated with little or no acknowledgement of the consequences.
Won't someone please think of the buggy-whip makers?
In the USA, the education system has not changed substantially since we decided we needed it to produce factory workers and soldiers. That's right, Public School's primary job is to prepare our nation for war. The Powers That Be don't give one tenth of one shit about what you're going to do out of high school. If you become a criminal, it's that much easier to funnel you into the military. We can try you as an adult, or you can get entry into the military on your 18th birthday! I don't really know what the school systems are meant for in most other countries, never having studied them or attended school there, but if your school system is training you to repair autonomous cars, you'll probably do OK; if like ours, it's training you to put your head down on your desk and wait quietly when you're done with your current assignment for the next instruction from your overlord, then you're probably fucked.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I dream of this day.
systems and use them to create SKYNET.
"Pizza delivery"
You could have the vehicle drive up, auto ring your house. And then act as a big vending machine sticking the pizza out the side. Not to the door service but I could see it catching in some places.
"Bus drivers"
If the bus driver were to be replaced it would be time to do what I've wanted for a long time. Free buses! Seriously, people use the bus to either spend money or go to work, both things that increase funding for the city. No one is going to be riding it for the sheer excitement whilst it is full. It makes sense to have it be free.
Having a person hired to collect money/stopping people get on is a fucking terrible waste of money. Not only do you need a guy to stand in the bus that you pay by the hour. You also need machines to collect the money. Places that sell tickets. Tokens. Secure way to transfer that money. Much slower buses while you get the money. Deals with local unis for ID cards.
Expect buses to follow the elevator. They used to have a guy in there to take tips and run the thing. When he is no longer needed to run the machine expect the service to become free. Maybe set it up so that business' can pay to have more buses come by their store.
Take it one step further... why do you even need your own car at all? Surely a reliance on the reliability of one car and parking, etc for one car is inferior to being a member of a 'club' which rents out cars by the minute, takes you to work, and then does the same for someone else 20 minutes later.
Here's a brilliant essay on the subject from the founder of EFF http://www.templetons.com/brad/robocars/
If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
You left out one of the major functions of the bus driver. Deterring vandalism. Vandalism is a major expense for bus companies, and without a driver it would get MUCH worse.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
There aren't guards in bus stops or many public places.... So I don't get the distinction. With vandalism in mind certain designs would reduce costs as well.
Silk Road
And bus stops get vandalized. But buses are much more expensive, and also more delicate.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Stick cameras inside. Problem solved. Ok, perhaps an exageration but cameras are cheap. Vandalism in many cities isn't bad enough to warrant REPAIR as you seem to imply. Or I'm being overly optimistic maybe. Most people on the bus won't care if it is painted with people's tags.
Cameras tend to get their lenses covered with gum & paper. And people do care about tags, but that isn't the limit of vandalism. Damaged windows are common, even WITH a driver on board and in charge.
Any automated system is going to need to deal with vandalism. If it can't, it will just fail.
Of course, this isn't just a problem for automated systems, but people generally have ways for dealing with vandalism. It's not, however, a minor cost of doing business. And it goes well beyond tagging.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Since vandalism is a criminal matter, and most buses here are GOCOs, putting beat police in plain clothes on buses would be the obvious solution to vandalism. They already have occasional plain-clothes patrols here to enforce jaywalking at tram stops (although they are often in half-uniform, so you can see their trousers and the bulges at their hips), so there would be no new issues with the concept. Vandalism really isn't too bad here on buses, even when one would have plenty of anonymity, partly because of cameras and mostly social pressure: it just isn't done to vandalise buses except with small tags on the seat backs (even those are rare), for some reason.
The route in the summary is totally wrong according to the map in the press release.
Your city sucks. Hamilton is often labeled as the shittiest city in Ontario and it has no such problems. Toronto is the biggest city in Canada and has no such problems. No such problems in Tokyo (9million people).
No such problems on the fully automated driverless trains in Vancouver that moved 700,000ppl/day during the olympics where people from across the world were. Or the many other automated train systems. Or hell trains in general since there is no way the one driver can watch the whole giant ass train.
Really if people in your city suck that much it is fascinating that people aren't stealing sidewalks for the cement like in India.
I think cleaning out the bus each night (30minutes, $5) and fixing any repair costs($1/day?) will cost FAR less than having a person in the bus the whole time (20hrs, $300). It isn't like someone is going to notice there is no driver and be like 'sweet deal' and hurl a grenade into the bus.