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Games Workshop Sues Warhammer Online Fansite
chalkyj writes "WarhammerAlliance.com (run for the last five years as one of the leading fansites for the MMORPG Warhammer Online) is being sued by Games Workshop for the use of the 'Warhammer' name, 'cybersquatting' and 'unfair competition.' This lawsuit is yet another in Games Workshop's disturbing pattern of suing their fans and hobbyists, this time going after a legitimate fansite for their MMORPG franchise. The full complaint (PDF) has been posted online."
Hey lets sue the people who love our games the most!
Yeah! That'll make us a ton of money!
You'd think they could at least BUY a clue... But no... They don't.
If you don't defend it, you potentially lose it. If you do defend it, you look like a jerk. What they need to do is come up with a $0 license for the site to use the name for specific purposes.
Getting sued by GW must be frightening. You can never be sure when they're going to declare Exterminatus on your offices.
Electronic Arts has done more the pollute the good name of Warhammer than any fan site.
... the ones you love
another in Games Workshop's disturbing pattern of suing their fans and hobbyists,
In the past, I've considered both playing the tabletop game, and did play the MMO beta. After reading about their past and present legal idiocy, I decided to take a pass.
Does it really never occur to anyone in the "common sense" departments of these corporations that suing devoted fans leads to having fewer of them? And that further, making it difficult to find fan sites (by suing them just for using the name of your product) also diminishes the fanbase? Seriously, if I want to meet other people who play Warhammer Online, a place called warhammeralliance.com is going to be the first place I stop. I'm not going to go to the "Warhammer Fan Page" on wecantusethenameoftheproduct.com...
I can't imagine anything worse for their PR. No amount of advertisement can fix that.
Im going to open a fan site for corporations that sue their fans.
Two points:
1. It's not cybersquatting when the domain name is used for legitimate purposes.
2. I don't know about trademark law, but a non-legal, average person interpretation of the term "unfair competition" suggests that you'd have to be competing against the trademark holder rather than expressing support for their product.
"In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
This is a natural consequence of intellectual property for something like GW who essentially relies on people consuming their storytelling, artwork and game mechanics. On one hand, the publisher wants you to be able to do what you want with their IP, but on the other, they don't want you to go so far as to start competing with them in the development of IP. It's a moronic business philosophy, the same as putting DRM on your video discs trying to stop attackers who are the exact same people as the users.
I remember seeing this all the time with NWN mods based on Tolkien's work, a couple of them shut down for fear of being sued by Tolkien's estate. The trick, at least with video games, would be to a completely open source setup that doesn't rely on a for profit publisher. I.e., you'd need an open source engine that is relatively decent as far as graphics go, of which there are several; a common use rules set for determining game mechanics (classes, stats, feats, etc.) and then a large body of creative commons artwork to go with it. Traditionally, the stumbling block has been that NWN proved that a sufficiently motivated community could come up with decent artwork and 3D models. I don't know why it is though that such a thing doesn't exist. I suppose it's easier to just pay $50 for a game that is fed to you, less work.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
CCP is helping fans with:
creators of warhammer seem to take the exactly opposite way...
let's see how long it'll last
Owned and operated by a commercial company (Curse).
Misleading news items? In my Slashdot?
The domain warhammeralliance.com was registered in 2005. But the lawsuit claims it happened in 2009. What's worse, GW even provided promotional materials (such as interviews) over the past five years.
WTF?! The game system's not even that popular. I was vaguely interested in their fantasy setting, but it just never clicked with me, and if it had I'd certainly no longer be interested after these strings of lawsuits.
Someone needs to GDW this is NOT good marketing and/or a good how-to-win-friends-and-influence-people-move.
I guess that they're just getting read for their epic phail when they decide to sue the MMO dev studio and publisher.
IMNHO they'd've been better off doing a Traveler MMO, which I think that they own, or at least I seem to recall my original rulebooks having GDW on them. (First time that I'd ever heard of GDW too... NEVER saw any of their warhammer crap until YEARS later and then only bits and pieces here and there usually in the bargain bin or heavily price reduced.
I sent them a very sternly written letter. That'll show them!
This is pretty typical GW stupidities.
The one I like is how you can't sell Games Workshop games online -- they use the same theory to block that, too. See, Games Workshop sells their own miniatures on their own online store. GW prices are, to be charitable, completely fucking nuts. We're talking $35+ bucks for a single miniature, most armies using hundreds of miniatures. What people were doing were buying bulk orders from GW and GW's resellers, then reselling them online for 40-50% discounts.
Well, can't have that, can we? So GW now prohibits anyone from selling their product for more than 20% off, and prohibits the use of online stores to sell their product. How is that legal? Rule of first sale and the like?
Hell if I know.
I myself have rumbled with the big dumb collective -- their website had a simplistic naming scheme, so I guessed the URL of the Necromunda website (Necromunda is one of GW's "flavor of the year" games, wherein they release a rulebook with slightly tweaked rules, a new miniature set or 3, then promptly stop supporting after the early adopters give up some cash -- see also: Mordheim, Inquisitor, Bloodbowl, Battlefleet Gothic, Epic...) and posted screenshots of the incomplete page. I got a nastygram in my email pretty quickly. They were cordial enough about it, but they still had a "do this now or else" vibe going on.
The local gaming store told me why he didn't like carrying GW products, either -- I was buying a Tyranid Hive Tyrant, and he flat out told me that GW would require he buy 2-4 Hive Tyrants to replace that single one. This is despite my purchase of said Hive Tyrant being the only HT purchase that year. GW requires minimum orders, GW requires minimum shelving space, GW requires X number of GW dedicated gaming tables, the works, in order to work with them instead of a re-reseller. And god forbid if you want to host official GW tournaments -- in order to be an official GW store you basically have to dedicate their entire store to them, and get used to buying the "new release of the week" and swapping it out, even if the existing stuff hasn't sold yet.
Did I mention that GW also runs their own dedicated retail store network -- the "Rogue Traders", which means that even if you ARE dancing to the GW tune, you're still a dirty little competitor, and thus they hate you and want to see you suffer?
There's no wonder Warhammer Online is an utter failure, why their wargames aren't selling anywhere near the levels they used to, the works. GW is, to be frank, toxic as hell to work with, and it is finally catching up to them.
The only legitimate claim I see here is that they are profiting by using the name Warhammer and it's connection to GW's Trademark of Warhammer by having banner ads on the site, which don't appear to be working for me at the moment. The claim of anonymity by shielding their domain registration information is lame, they are only trying to use that to their advantage and claim they knowingly hid their info so they couldn't be found. Last I checked, you could still get that information through legal means. Cybersquatting they are not as the domain name is being used legitimately to host a site and not as a landing page for ads or to just resell the domain for money. But, since they are looking for a trial with a jury, GW will probably be sure to pick the most technologically illiterate people they can to serve on the jury. But, being that this is about a Trademark, GW has to sue regardless of merit or else risk losing the Trademark.
heh heh heh I see that they are actually two ENTIRELY different companies now, with GDW defunct, yet it looks like GW is working hard to follow in their footsteps.
Warhammer, must be a European thing as I can't say that I've ever run into anyone that ever played one of their Warhammer strategy/RPG games. I guess that their biggest break must've the series of so-so tactical/strategy computer games.
Is it that time of the year again?
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
Rather than hopping on the 'Screw GW!' bandwagon, I actually decided to rtfa and look into the situation.
The site was originally a fan-site, and it was welcomed by GW. Then it was bought out by a corporation called Curse. Curse is running it with intent to make profit. It's common sense that a for-profit site with 'Warhammer' in the name is not exactly fair business.
It's not a fan-site anymore. It's a corporate asset
If you look into the forums, the second post actually explains that Games Workshop was promoting the site back in 2006 and that they had come to an agreement between the site, Games Workshop and Mythic Entertainment by way of a disclaimer. Apparently, they now allege that they had just discovered the site.
Either there's incredibly bad miscommunication going on inside Games Workshop, or... Well, I can't really think of how anything else really sounds remotely sane about this. I'm not a fan of Warhammer Online or anything, but seriously?
Screw the rules, I have green hair!
It's behavior like this that has kept me from buying Space Hulk or any Warhammer 40k minis. I haven't even picked up any of the Dawn of War games since I found out what they've been doing.
You hear me, Games Workshop? I am your ideal customer. I have lots of money and I want to give you some of it. But I'm not going to until you stop being a goddamn asshole.
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
Aye, a few fans showing up with chainsaws and cries of "Blood For The Blood God!" would probabl be scary ;)
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
isn't this the same game company that was overcharging their customers for their subscriptions?
I was getting ready to restart my Warhammer Online subscription. But after seeing this? I'll keep my money.
I remember seeing this all the time with NWN mods based on Tolkien's work, a couple of them shut down for fear of being sued by Tolkien's estate.
that the heirs of the guy who wrote about a struggle against an evil overlord residing in a castle, became very much like that overlord themselves.
Read radical news here
I having dealt with Games Workshop in both personal and profession capacities over the years, I have always been struck by their stupidly greedy tactics. From the over priced kits, to requiring me order $40,000 of everything in their product line in order to sell any of their products in my store. This lawsuit is very typical of them.
Got to laugh at them though, they denied any computer games being made from their oh so precious IPs, and lost the several billion it would have made them.
You keep nickel and diming the kids GW, that will surely get it all back for you!
That worked out GREAT for TSR too. Didn't it?
Oh wait...
Never mind that fansites like this help build community that otherwise would go unserved or underserved and helps...oh...RETAIN CUSTOMERS?
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Sue the fans, that's a good plan.
Hubs - http://hubpages.com/profile/Anti-Matter
I was looking forward to playing Warhammer 40k Online.
I see no need to help fund silly lawsuits.
crack for gamers that cant afford to play Magic the Gathering :-P
Love the IP, hate the company... I used to work for them in the Australian arm. Back then, they had had slave wages for the drones who loved the games and filled the lower rungs, but for some reason, the upper echelons had non-gamers who seemed to be doing alright for themselves.
So it's like Apple than and the Apple-Stores. They are doing pretty good.
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
So far GW seems to have been getting away with their bullying, but it's got to catch up with them eventually. Other companies are getting into plastic miniatures these days, after all. Mantic Games looks especially interesting.
just change all instances of "Warhammer" to War Hammer" and since the url cant have a space your good there seeing as a War Hammer is not trademarks the fans know what you mean and sends a big Screw you to GW
Anyone who's old enough to remember playing tabletop roleplaying games in the 80's and early 90's is likely already aware of Games Workshop's track record. They set boardgaming back by twenty years.
After establishing themselves as the dominant games publisher in the U.K. and having formed a network of like-minds in the 'White Dwarf' magazine and Citadel Miniatures staff, GW merged with Citadel c1989 and White Dwarf became the house publication. Actually, I'll re-word that: It became a monthly advertisement for all things GW.
White Dwarf was almost the only source of games news in those pre-internet days and it had the kind of persuasion and disinformation powers Rupert Murdoch could only envy. The letters page (what they had in place of forum posts in those days, kids) was first neutered (only GW fanboys got printed) then dropped altogether. Presumably because GW wanted to remove all traces of thinking from their fans. Only Games Workshop published games were reviewed - and always only every favourably - and only Games Workshop events were publicised. By 1992 it wasn't even covering anything outside of GW's current catalogue.
Citadel Miniatures had also been co-opted. Their range of miniatures became so much a part of the GW product line that older miniatures were often renamed to suit GW's revised history.
(E.g, a range of 1986 Elric of Melnibone characters became generic GW Elves and an early line of Lord Of The Rings characters were all dispersed to generic 'warrior' or 'wizard'. Even the White Dwarf himself was later redesignated 'Imperial Dwarf'.)
As well as this, the style of the miniatures became ever more 'cartoon' and a lot of the earlier sexuality and violence was purged. Citadel used to have miniatures of slave-girls being roasted over open fires, nude Goblins and Ogres carrying sacks of bloody body parts. Now, every miniature is relentlessly (Christian) family-friendly.
However Games Workshop's corporate policies are hardly 'friendly' in any sense of the word. Endlessly re-releasing the same core games as 'new' releases with (barely) altered rules, unreasonably overpricing miniatures (currently, a 5-man Space Marine squad costs £20. Twenty Pounds Sterling! for five plastic toy soldiers you're meant to paint yourself.), delaying deliveries and payments to competitors, endless recycling of illustrations and ideas, it goes on.
A lot of gamers will point and say that GW has some great games and awesome miniatures but in fact, nothing GW does is original, their best work was pre-1993 and they don't make a single item that isn't designed specifically to shift large amounts of overpriced, crap, miniatures paint. Even the pulp fiction they churn out. There are good, cheaper miniatures made by their competitors. There are also far superior boardgames available (see http://www.boardgamegeek.com//).
It's pretty obvious at this stage that Games Workshop have no respect for their customers or fans. Most of their fans are teenagers and although teenagers with a Games Workshop habit need pretty well off parents to pay for their fix, GW clearly expects them to 'grow out of it' at some stage and piss off. Just as long as there's another generation of saps in line, GW doesn't care.
And that, ladies and gentlegeeks, is why Games Workshop are bastards and why should anyone be surprised at anything they do?
Years ago they used to sell Warhammer 40k miniatures in packs of one less than the standard unit size. Very frustrating for teenagers saving their pocket money and probably cost them a lot of customers. Perhaps they were sitting round their offices rubbing their hands in glee at the excess miniatures they'd forced people to buy but that sure isn't good business. Their many rule changes were of course designed to make sure anything more than a couple of years old was completely useless on the battlefield. Rulebooks would be hyped up and then released over multiple volumes with the essential stuff split between them. Frustrating as it was a fun game, but even to a 15 year old it was obvious they had no respect for their fans.
Warhammer Online did not provide official forums. Warhammer Alliance unofficially provided the most popular forums for the game. They just attacked the primary social network of their few remaining players. Brilliant.
They are an amazingly litigious company. The whole business strategy, from constant product rotation to frequent lawsuits, feels designed to create a tightly-controlled, ever-spending consumer base. It would be frightening to see their numbers on how much a typical player spends on an annual basis.
Having said that, I once purchased a starter kit of Space Mar...oops, probably can't say that here... er, Spanky Marmots to paint. It was entertaining, but it took an incredible amount of time per miniature and it gave me some idea of the amount of time and money it would take me to field a reasonably-sized, badly-painted army. (Hint: It's cheaper and takes less time to reach level 70 in WoW.)