Slashdot Mirror
Games Workshop Sues Warhammer Online Fansite
chalkyj writes "WarhammerAlliance.com (run for the last five years as one of the leading fansites for the MMORPG Warhammer Online) is being sued by Games Workshop for the use of the 'Warhammer' name, 'cybersquatting' and 'unfair competition.' This lawsuit is yet another in Games Workshop's disturbing pattern of suing their fans and hobbyists, this time going after a legitimate fansite for their MMORPG franchise. The full complaint (PDF) has been posted online."
If you don't defend it, you potentially lose it. If you do defend it, you look like a jerk. What they need to do is come up with a $0 license for the site to use the name for specific purposes.
Getting sued by GW must be frightening. You can never be sure when they're going to declare Exterminatus on your offices.
Electronic Arts has done more the pollute the good name of Warhammer than any fan site.
... the ones you love
another in Games Workshop's disturbing pattern of suing their fans and hobbyists,
In the past, I've considered both playing the tabletop game, and did play the MMO beta. After reading about their past and present legal idiocy, I decided to take a pass.
Does it really never occur to anyone in the "common sense" departments of these corporations that suing devoted fans leads to having fewer of them? And that further, making it difficult to find fan sites (by suing them just for using the name of your product) also diminishes the fanbase? Seriously, if I want to meet other people who play Warhammer Online, a place called warhammeralliance.com is going to be the first place I stop. I'm not going to go to the "Warhammer Fan Page" on wecantusethenameoftheproduct.com...
I can't imagine anything worse for their PR. No amount of advertisement can fix that.
Im going to open a fan site for corporations that sue their fans.
Two points:
1. It's not cybersquatting when the domain name is used for legitimate purposes.
2. I don't know about trademark law, but a non-legal, average person interpretation of the term "unfair competition" suggests that you'd have to be competing against the trademark holder rather than expressing support for their product.
"In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
This is a natural consequence of intellectual property for something like GW who essentially relies on people consuming their storytelling, artwork and game mechanics. On one hand, the publisher wants you to be able to do what you want with their IP, but on the other, they don't want you to go so far as to start competing with them in the development of IP. It's a moronic business philosophy, the same as putting DRM on your video discs trying to stop attackers who are the exact same people as the users.
I remember seeing this all the time with NWN mods based on Tolkien's work, a couple of them shut down for fear of being sued by Tolkien's estate. The trick, at least with video games, would be to a completely open source setup that doesn't rely on a for profit publisher. I.e., you'd need an open source engine that is relatively decent as far as graphics go, of which there are several; a common use rules set for determining game mechanics (classes, stats, feats, etc.) and then a large body of creative commons artwork to go with it. Traditionally, the stumbling block has been that NWN proved that a sufficiently motivated community could come up with decent artwork and 3D models. I don't know why it is though that such a thing doesn't exist. I suppose it's easier to just pay $50 for a game that is fed to you, less work.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
CCP is helping fans with:
creators of warhammer seem to take the exactly opposite way...
let's see how long it'll last
Owned and operated by a commercial company (Curse).
Misleading news items? In my Slashdot?
The domain warhammeralliance.com was registered in 2005. But the lawsuit claims it happened in 2009. What's worse, GW even provided promotional materials (such as interviews) over the past five years.
Your subject shares nothing with your post. Lawyers didn't decide to a sue a Warhammer fan site.
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?
This is pretty typical GW stupidities.
The one I like is how you can't sell Games Workshop games online -- they use the same theory to block that, too. See, Games Workshop sells their own miniatures on their own online store. GW prices are, to be charitable, completely fucking nuts. We're talking $35+ bucks for a single miniature, most armies using hundreds of miniatures. What people were doing were buying bulk orders from GW and GW's resellers, then reselling them online for 40-50% discounts.
Well, can't have that, can we? So GW now prohibits anyone from selling their product for more than 20% off, and prohibits the use of online stores to sell their product. How is that legal? Rule of first sale and the like?
Hell if I know.
I myself have rumbled with the big dumb collective -- their website had a simplistic naming scheme, so I guessed the URL of the Necromunda website (Necromunda is one of GW's "flavor of the year" games, wherein they release a rulebook with slightly tweaked rules, a new miniature set or 3, then promptly stop supporting after the early adopters give up some cash -- see also: Mordheim, Inquisitor, Bloodbowl, Battlefleet Gothic, Epic...) and posted screenshots of the incomplete page. I got a nastygram in my email pretty quickly. They were cordial enough about it, but they still had a "do this now or else" vibe going on.
The local gaming store told me why he didn't like carrying GW products, either -- I was buying a Tyranid Hive Tyrant, and he flat out told me that GW would require he buy 2-4 Hive Tyrants to replace that single one. This is despite my purchase of said Hive Tyrant being the only HT purchase that year. GW requires minimum orders, GW requires minimum shelving space, GW requires X number of GW dedicated gaming tables, the works, in order to work with them instead of a re-reseller. And god forbid if you want to host official GW tournaments -- in order to be an official GW store you basically have to dedicate their entire store to them, and get used to buying the "new release of the week" and swapping it out, even if the existing stuff hasn't sold yet.
Did I mention that GW also runs their own dedicated retail store network -- the "Rogue Traders", which means that even if you ARE dancing to the GW tune, you're still a dirty little competitor, and thus they hate you and want to see you suffer?
There's no wonder Warhammer Online is an utter failure, why their wargames aren't selling anywhere near the levels they used to, the works. GW is, to be frank, toxic as hell to work with, and it is finally catching up to them.
The only legitimate claim I see here is that they are profiting by using the name Warhammer and it's connection to GW's Trademark of Warhammer by having banner ads on the site, which don't appear to be working for me at the moment. The claim of anonymity by shielding their domain registration information is lame, they are only trying to use that to their advantage and claim they knowingly hid their info so they couldn't be found. Last I checked, you could still get that information through legal means. Cybersquatting they are not as the domain name is being used legitimately to host a site and not as a landing page for ads or to just resell the domain for money. But, since they are looking for a trial with a jury, GW will probably be sure to pick the most technologically illiterate people they can to serve on the jury. But, being that this is about a Trademark, GW has to sue regardless of merit or else risk losing the Trademark.
like happiness you can't buy clues. you can only earn them through in game rewards.
Maybe should stop playing with their little army men and actually try to play the game.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Is it that time of the year again?
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
Rather than hopping on the 'Screw GW!' bandwagon, I actually decided to rtfa and look into the situation.
The site was originally a fan-site, and it was welcomed by GW. Then it was bought out by a corporation called Curse. Curse is running it with intent to make profit. It's common sense that a for-profit site with 'Warhammer' in the name is not exactly fair business.
It's not a fan-site anymore. It's a corporate asset
If you look into the forums, the second post actually explains that Games Workshop was promoting the site back in 2006 and that they had come to an agreement between the site, Games Workshop and Mythic Entertainment by way of a disclaimer. Apparently, they now allege that they had just discovered the site.
Either there's incredibly bad miscommunication going on inside Games Workshop, or... Well, I can't really think of how anything else really sounds remotely sane about this. I'm not a fan of Warhammer Online or anything, but seriously?
Screw the rules, I have green hair!
It's behavior like this that has kept me from buying Space Hulk or any Warhammer 40k minis. I haven't even picked up any of the Dawn of War games since I found out what they've been doing.
You hear me, Games Workshop? I am your ideal customer. I have lots of money and I want to give you some of it. But I'm not going to until you stop being a goddamn asshole.
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
Aye, a few fans showing up with chainsaws and cries of "Blood For The Blood God!" would probabl be scary ;)
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
I remember seeing this all the time with NWN mods based on Tolkien's work, a couple of them shut down for fear of being sued by Tolkien's estate.
that the heirs of the guy who wrote about a struggle against an evil overlord residing in a castle, became very much like that overlord themselves.
Read radical news here
I having dealt with Games Workshop in both personal and profession capacities over the years, I have always been struck by their stupidly greedy tactics. From the over priced kits, to requiring me order $40,000 of everything in their product line in order to sell any of their products in my store. This lawsuit is very typical of them.
Somehow, I think Games Workshop's legal department is full of lawyers and were the ones to make the decision to protect the IP.
You are confusing UK based Games Workshop (GW) who does Warhammer-foo with Game Desigers Workshop (GDW( who did Traveller and Twilight 2000 and is defunct.
Reminds me of Phil (the one who got an iPad for his birthday) in this week's Modern Family: "I'm a very good burglar ! I leave no clues ! I'm totally clueless !"
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Maybe who? You a word.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
That worked out GREAT for TSR too. Didn't it?
Oh wait...
Never mind that fansites like this help build community that otherwise would go unserved or underserved and helps...oh...RETAIN CUSTOMERS?
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
I don't know about that....
Money can buy you a revolving door of hot supermodel class trophy wives and mistresses.
Money can buy you all the cars, boats, planes you want to go anywhere you want.
Money can buy you all the pretty things to look at and fun toys to play with.
Money can give you power and render revenge against your enemies.
Money can let you mess with people's lives and livelihood for your own perverse amusement.
Money can buy you a sense of charity and phony philanthropy.
Money can make a type of people be nice to you, suck up to you, be blithering idiots and servants around you.
Money can buy people's convincingly feigned love and adoration.
People who say money can't buy happiness are either jealous and spiteful or the type that can't be satisfied with what they have and simply want what they can't have, creating a paradox of emotions.
Sue the fans, that's a good plan.
Hubs - http://hubpages.com/profile/Anti-Matter
Love the IP, hate the company... I used to work for them in the Australian arm. Back then, they had had slave wages for the drones who loved the games and filled the lower rungs, but for some reason, the upper echelons had non-gamers who seemed to be doing alright for themselves.
So it's like Apple than and the Apple-Stores. They are doing pretty good.
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
So far GW seems to have been getting away with their bullying, but it's got to catch up with them eventually. Other companies are getting into plastic miniatures these days, after all. Mantic Games looks especially interesting.
Perhaps the point of the adage is that you can't derive true happiness from material possessions. I think many would find money can yield a certain satisfaction, though. ;)
Somehow, I doubt that Games Workshop's shitty attitude towards their customers just comes from their legal department. The guys at the top at least have to sign off on it - if they aren't the ones who are pushing the policy in the first place.
Lawyers are rarely the ultimate cause of problems from corporations. They're usually enablers, not decision makers. They get more credit than they deserve for bad decisions because part of their job is to be the designated asshole for a company, but the decisions come from the top at any company that isn't completely dysfunctional. (And in companies that are completely dysfunctional the decisions come from HR anyway, not from legal.)
It was the legal department that waylaid a bunch of sites last thanksgiving (2 days left to comply with most folks on vacation when the letter arrived- somehow taking 12 days to cross the sea from UK.
They are jerks-- even sued the fan site that helped them redevelop the bloodbowl rules.
I will not be buying their products again.
There are too many other forms of entertainment-- more than you can consume in a lifetime-- to bother supporting jerks.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Anyone who's old enough to remember playing tabletop roleplaying games in the 80's and early 90's is likely already aware of Games Workshop's track record. They set boardgaming back by twenty years.
After establishing themselves as the dominant games publisher in the U.K. and having formed a network of like-minds in the 'White Dwarf' magazine and Citadel Miniatures staff, GW merged with Citadel c1989 and White Dwarf became the house publication. Actually, I'll re-word that: It became a monthly advertisement for all things GW.
White Dwarf was almost the only source of games news in those pre-internet days and it had the kind of persuasion and disinformation powers Rupert Murdoch could only envy. The letters page (what they had in place of forum posts in those days, kids) was first neutered (only GW fanboys got printed) then dropped altogether. Presumably because GW wanted to remove all traces of thinking from their fans. Only Games Workshop published games were reviewed - and always only every favourably - and only Games Workshop events were publicised. By 1992 it wasn't even covering anything outside of GW's current catalogue.
Citadel Miniatures had also been co-opted. Their range of miniatures became so much a part of the GW product line that older miniatures were often renamed to suit GW's revised history.
(E.g, a range of 1986 Elric of Melnibone characters became generic GW Elves and an early line of Lord Of The Rings characters were all dispersed to generic 'warrior' or 'wizard'. Even the White Dwarf himself was later redesignated 'Imperial Dwarf'.)
As well as this, the style of the miniatures became ever more 'cartoon' and a lot of the earlier sexuality and violence was purged. Citadel used to have miniatures of slave-girls being roasted over open fires, nude Goblins and Ogres carrying sacks of bloody body parts. Now, every miniature is relentlessly (Christian) family-friendly.
However Games Workshop's corporate policies are hardly 'friendly' in any sense of the word. Endlessly re-releasing the same core games as 'new' releases with (barely) altered rules, unreasonably overpricing miniatures (currently, a 5-man Space Marine squad costs £20. Twenty Pounds Sterling! for five plastic toy soldiers you're meant to paint yourself.), delaying deliveries and payments to competitors, endless recycling of illustrations and ideas, it goes on.
A lot of gamers will point and say that GW has some great games and awesome miniatures but in fact, nothing GW does is original, their best work was pre-1993 and they don't make a single item that isn't designed specifically to shift large amounts of overpriced, crap, miniatures paint. Even the pulp fiction they churn out. There are good, cheaper miniatures made by their competitors. There are also far superior boardgames available (see http://www.boardgamegeek.com//).
It's pretty obvious at this stage that Games Workshop have no respect for their customers or fans. Most of their fans are teenagers and although teenagers with a Games Workshop habit need pretty well off parents to pay for their fix, GW clearly expects them to 'grow out of it' at some stage and piss off. Just as long as there's another generation of saps in line, GW doesn't care.
And that, ladies and gentlegeeks, is why Games Workshop are bastards and why should anyone be surprised at anything they do?
People who say money can't buy happiness are either jealous and spiteful or the type that can't be satisfied with what they have and simply want what they can't have, creating a paradox of emotions.
If you are actually serious, the fact that you actually associate happiness with (bitchy, money-grubbing) supermodel wives and mistresses, lots of expensive (and fulfilling) toys, and the ability to fuck with other people's lives indicates that either you (1) obviously don't know enough rich people or (2) you could easily develop into an asshole whose potential to cause misery to yourself and others is only limited by your bank account.
Money is like an addictive medication. In the proper dose, it can really improve your life. But without substantial self-discipline, too much of it will consume you. And too little can result in a low quality of life.
Yes I'm serious, and having things that they want makes people happy...
How would you define happiness? Not having things that you want?
Perhaps the point of the adage is that you can't derive true happiness from material possessions.
It's just another variation of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy - wherever someone does derive happiness from money, it's immediately proclaimed as "not true".
This isn't to say that everyone can buy their perception of happiness with money; but there are definitely people out there who do, and there are a lot of them, too.
Happiness is understanding and accepting what it is that you actually want, rather than avoiding facing it by buying validation from other people in order to maintain your cognitive dissonance.
(1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
Nothing new for Games Workshop. Their lawyers love suing their best customers and have been doing it for decades now. My guess is this is where the RIAA and MPAA got the idea from.