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Amazon Is Collecting Your Kindle Highlights & Notes
TechDirt catches Amazon playing fast and loose with data that consumers may think is private — namely, their highlights and notes entered into Kindle books. "Amazon will now remotely upload and store the user notes and highlights you take on your Kindle, which it then compiles into 'popular highlights.' I have no doubt that the feature provides some interesting data, but it's not clear that users realize their highlighting and notes are being stored and used that way. Amazon basically says there's no big privacy deal here, because the data is always aggregated. But it sounds like many users don't realize this is happening at all. Amazon says people can find out they added this feature by reading 'forum posts and help pages.' ... [This situation] once again highlights a key concern in that the 'features' of your 'book' can change over time. Your highlighting may have been yours in the past, but suddenly it becomes Amazon's with little notice."
1.) highlight
2.) upload in steal, er, I meant borrow...ahhhrr.. I mean stealth mode
3.) profit
4.) wow sharewholders
highlights kindle you.
Collecting and anonymizing highlights to form something like "most popular passages". Awesome. Collecting and "anonymizing" notes? Impossible and terribly invasive.
Guess which one is actually happening? Guess which one the title and summary suggests is happening?
This is why I'm so very insistent about owning the hardware I buy. Mostly. Unfortunately, I sort of share vague ownership of a PS3 with Sony. :-( But generally, it's not a concession I'm willing to make.
Sadly, I don't think most people are aware of the choice they're making. And when you tell them, they think you're a raving lunatic or some kind of bizarre idealist. But their choices have real consequences, and the network effect of their choices have consequences for me.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
Just use a regular highlighter pen. Of course, you might want to cover the display with clear plastic first. :P
As a Kindle 2 owner who just had his Kindle updated to 2.5 firmware (which has this feature), I can tell you that this feature is off by default. In order for Amazon to actually share your highlights (of course, who knows if they're collecting it silently in the background; it's their system after all), you have to actively turn on this feature.
I've also seen Kindle for iPad. I don't recall whether this feature was on by default, but it is rather prominently displayed on their relatively simple options menu. If you have privacy concerns, it's fairly simple to turn it off.
Kindle User's Guide (pdf), page 99. Notes and highlights have been backed up to Amazon's servers since the v1 launch, and you can easily turn off sync of your own data.
You can enable or disable automatic backup by following the steps below:
1. If you are not already on the Home screen, press the Home button.
2. Press the Menu button.
3. Move the 5-way to underline "Settings" and press to select.
4. Press the Menu button.
5. Move the 5-way to underline "Disable/Enable Annotations Backup" and press to select.
Why should I care that Amazon builds an aggregate summary?
If this is really as innocent as they claim... why not "just ask permission first". Oh. Didn't think so.
This is why I still don't own a "reader". I'm willing to go as far as PDF readers, i.e. some tablet device. But if I can't get it as a PDF, fine, I'll buy the paper product.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
It's not just the kindle. Any website (and more and more are) that "augments" its site with services from apture or taint are also collecting exactly what you click on and select.
The New York Times uses apture.
All of this is wrong.
Why should I care that Amazon builds an aggregate summary?
You might care if the books you read and the things you highlight come up at your next security clearance interview. As well, it may take you some time to realize why you are getting certain types of clearly targeted spam. And, down the road, maybe you just don't fit in to that condo you want to buy, maybe you'll wonder why and where they got their data. Trying to adopt a child? You might want to be concerned
You do realize that all data is for sale, right?
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Isn't it interesting that the very companies that protest constantly about piracy of their "intellectual property" and want to DRM lock everything to prevent it seem to have no respect for the property rights of individuals? Take note, you apologists who constantly point out that piracy is "theft" because it "steals" something that belongs to the creator whose 'right' to compensation and control of their works must be protected. Why silent now? The personal notes a person creates on their reading device are no different from other creative works and should be protected accordingly. Amazon should not be accessing or using this information without express permission or fairly compensating the rights holders and providing royalties for the lives of the authors plus 70 years. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
:D
Isn't the user generated notes are written by the customers? The customers still owns the copyrights and they can and should all file DMCA take down notices.
In theory, you are probably correct. However, you can be relatively sure that somewhere in the terms of use, Yahoo's lawyers have tried to reduce liability, and you may have agreed to assign your copyright on your annotations to Yahoo (or otherwise limited your ability to use the DMCA or sue for infringement).
Not to mention you would be suing a large corporation with many more $s than you. Not easy.
One more thing to file under Yet Another Reason I Will Never Use A Kindle.
1.) highlight 2.) upload in steal, er, I meant borrow...ahhhrr.. I mean stealth mode 3.) profit 4.) wow sharewholders
I can't wait to see who comes out of the woodwork to defend Amazon on this one, and what sort of faux reasoning they use to do it. I know Amazon doesn't have the fanboy base that Microsoft and Apple currently enjoy, but I think that's because they are, for the most part, "just a retailer" reselling goods they did not themselves design or produce. Most of the items they sell are things you happen to have bought from Amazon but could obtain elsewhere. The Kindle is quite the exception to that. It's a real Amazon product and service with all of the brand recognition that goes with that.
I'm wondering who is going to make excuses for Amazon and advocate that we view this as a desirable or at least benign practice. That's what happens whenever there is a story about alleged or proven malfeasance by Microsoft. It's what happens whenever there is a story about excessive vendor lock-in, general control-freak practices, or arbitrary and inconsistent actions (like which apps are accepted/rejected for its App Store) by Apple. So, who will it be? Who's going to try convincing us that this is a good and desirable practice, that it's in our interests as customers, that it's not a step in the wrong direction that has a long series of steps, or that there's something wrong with seriously questioning it?
Or better yet, who will point out a EULA clause or similar document stating, "we can arbitrarily modify this agreement without notice or ability to opt-out, at any time, to allow ourselves to engage in any practice" and conclude that this completely justifies everything beyond reproach, both legally and morally/ethically?
In the interests of non-discrimination, I hereby request that those of you with fanboy inclinations, who derive your identity in part or whole by feeling a personal connection to non-human entities that don't give a damn about you except that you spend money, who cheer their successes and mourn their losses, who add your free contributions to their already multi-million dollar marketing and PR budgets, who use ad-hominem and invective against anyone who dislikes "your team", speak up and be heard. There is no reason why Amazon should not be treated equally.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
Would the world would come to an end?
Would the shadowy anti-privacy forces finally get the last piece of their diabolical puzzle and finish their time machine?
Would we get to read yet another story on Slashdot whining about imaginary injuries to our privacy?
Would Santa Claus finally have probable cause to cross Jenny Smith's name off his gift list?
Would I finally get that beer I've been wanting?
Would terriers learn to play bass?
With a tremble in our hearts, the world awaits knowledge of our terrible hypothetical fate. What would it be? What would happen?
Nobody gives a shit.
Good thing none of those would happen. They also won't happen if you reply to this with your home address so long as you post as an AC.
We promise we'll only use the information in aggregate.
Pulp Audio Weekly - Geek News and Reviews
And not your "notes"... he just wants to know where you live and how much you spent at Amazon... to make sure you paid your local "use" tax.
You have paid, right?
Do you have any right to ask Amazon to delete your "history"? Probably not any more than you have the right to ask your doctor to erase bad things from your medical charts...
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
As a (recently) former employee (new gig) of Lab126, the people who make the Kindle, I can assure you that only highlights are used in data collection, i.e. the selection from a start location to end location. When shown as popular highlights, they are just an underlining of text for those locations, as well as the number of users who have highlighted that selection. That is it, nothing more, nothing less.
No annotations are used that people have typed. Finally, the service is optional, with the ability to opt-in and opt-out on device. I'm pretty sure this has been stated in the kindle users guide, the legal menu item in settings, and on the website.
that is all
Fucking shitheads. That's it. I'm getting an iPad.
Does this only apply to the physical Kindle? Some are saying that there is the ability to opt out, but maybe only on the Kindle? I don't see that in the iPhone app.
It is widely publicized. It is 867-5309.
So will students start noting what's on the test to help the next class out? What will this actually be used for? It's hard to imagine scenarios where I'd want to use it much.
If they aggregate, anonymize the info, and discard information about highlight patterns that might be unusual (such as art created on a page with unusual selection of highlights)
However, recording people's notes is indefensible. That stuff is private information, users have an expectation of being sensitive.
For example, I might record password in a certain page of my favorite book. I should be able to do this without any fear of it ever being uploaded to or looked at by anyone at Amazon.
Notes should be private unless the user explicitly permissions otherwise. There is an expectation of privacy regarding notes you place in a book, and Amazon's practice of uploading or analyzing that info without permission is shocking and surprising.
And just plain wrong.
Like many others here, I've worked with databases that store call logs and correspondence. You would be surprised how often personal information like SSNs and credit card numbers end up in the system. A single incident can be a legal or PR disaster for an organization. I don't see how the value of user notes could outweigh the risk. Is it really a feature people want?
Probably not. But it's hardly a cause for alarm either.
I first noticed this earlier today: passages just started being underlined. Hovering over the text explains that it has been highlighted by other users, and how to turn off the feature. It's a bit bloatey for anything other than textbooks, but as a feature it is almost unmissable. You can't read on a Kindle anymore without knowing about this feature (and preferably disabling it).
Personally, I'm just annoyed that people highlight the most inane sappy lines as if they were genuinely insightful about life. Thank you, dozens of people who highlighted "The most important things in life are friends"; I'm glad that if you forget this pearl of wisdom in the future, you can return to the convenient highlight marker and be re-enlightened.
The ______ Agenda
Sarah Connor
309 Calder
Los Angeles, CA 91741
Don't get Kindled.
I appreciate the concern which is been rose. The things need to be sorted out because it is about the individual but it can be with everyone. cristina =========== S&P 500 Dividend Aristocrats
Did anyone think their bookmarks could be shared across all their kindles/PCs/Macs/devices for their books? If so, Opera Link and Foxmarks are no worse. Maybe there should simply be an option to explicitly disable syncing bookmarks.
Just like http://facebookiswatchingyou.blogspot.com/2010/04/what-you-say-now-on-facebook-can-go-to.html Facebook "privacy.".. Hopefully, all products with such antics will die out once people are pi**ed enough. And after some survive consequences of being too openminded in her notes/thoughts... Like, denied XY visa because on your fb page you've being critical of AB policy of XY country .
http://opencm3.net, http://www.nongnu.org/gm2/
You may wonder how this happened. Jeff Bezos, CEO of Amazon, was looking for a way to establish that he is both socially backward and dishonest.
Okay, if that's not correct, how did it happen? Why do people who already have billions of dollars begin to think that it is acceptable to cheat and lie and steal to get more money?
And... How can Amazon customers be bound by a contract everyone knows they didn't read?
Since this is a new "feature", I'm sure it was no where at the time buyers acquired the product a few months ago. Besides, that's not the whole point. Sure, Amazons profits from this and they do give part of the benefit back to users, but it should be done in such a way that the users are absolutely informed of what's happening. And it should be disabled by default.
If I highlight the Wikipedia article on 'plastique' you can personally garantee that I won't ever be getting a visit from the feds or be placed on any kind of watch list?
Because if you can't, well ... we should just ban curtains and envelopes and get it over with.
No sig today...
What if many pranksters highlight a page (or more) in a popular book in a manner that would produce an offensive image/text? Or a spoiler for the book ending ;).
Individual highlights could be designed to look innocuous, but produce the target image when combined by Amazon.
Of course this may require a fair number of people getting access to a kindle. Doesn't have to be that many since I'm sure some pages are less likely to be highlighted in normal circumstances.
We have been seeing this interaction between user contributions and corporations for a long time, and Amazon is neither the first one nor the last one to engage. It bothers the hell out of me when I see companies taking a lot out from their users and giving little back. When I talk to people, I have the feeling that most of them don't care or don't wanna care. My biggest example at the moment is Tom Tom map and share. I work in the digital map business and have seen what Teleatlas does with user's data. They log your life. Sure: anonymously, but they log it. They log where you go, at what time, how fast you were traveling, who many people, etc. They use this data to map new streets, to create statistics, to route through traffic, etc. this saves them an *enormous* amount of money since they don't need to drive everywhere with their expensive measurement vans. They get literally millions of km per day worth of data, some of which is later up for sale. So you give them data, and it becomes *their* data not yours. You don't get it back. Ever. Openstreet map for instance can't have access to it. To give you an idea of what this is worth, look at the EuroFOT project at http://www.eurofot-ip.eu/ . This is a multimillion-euro European project to collect data for just 1000 vehicles. Tom Tom collects this by several order of magnitudes a day and pretty much for free. Sure: EuroFOT collects video, ACC, CAN, etc etc. but I want to put the price of data into perspective. Tom Tom is profiting from their users big time, and what do they give back? Contributed map updates, not even the commercial map updates that are release every quarter. It bothers me even more how they make users opt for it. They hide their whole "I'll log your ass" behind the "community and friends" slogan. And it works for them. I'm not against companies engaging with the community, but I'm against them not giving enough back and moreover, not being honest about what they are collecting from you. I personally stop buying from companies that change terms and conditions as you go, but I seem to be an exception to the rule. So I don't blame Tom Tom or Amazon for doing this.
It's not the fact that I can opt in or out.
It is the fact that, once I buy a (e)-book, I don't want to hear from or interact with the publisher ever again concerning that purchase. Money exchanged, goods recieved, and that's the end of it. Period and finished.
I do not want my "book" to send out any information whatsoever unless I explicitly go through motions that enables it. And if I do enable it, I expect a little wi-fi type of icon present on the corner of every page of each book that has this enabled.
On the same vein, I do not want my "book" to listen for and receive anything. No "your purchase has been deleted your money refunded" bullshit. Once I have it, I have it, it is mine, and nothing short of a physical person showing up with a signed court order will remove it from my possession.
I do not want a device that interacts in any way whatsoever with a network other than to make a new purchase, and then limited exclusively to information concerning that purchase.
Capish? What is so hard to understand about implementing this simple basic model, and nothing more?
I've just realised how sinister the potential of the Kindle is. In Nazi and Stalinist states, THEY controlled the printing presses - we're getting into a situation where THEY control the very act of reading. Start stockpiling paper and pencils.
After hearing about the rumor of free Kindles for all Amazon Prime members ... I'm still waiting, dammit!
That's a job for 4chan.
Other comments have missed the point. Amazon is transmitting and storing information about what interests readers enough to highlight. That can be very personal. It doesn't matter that the information that Amazon displays is "aggregated".
For example, if someone highlights the name of a terrorist, that could be a cause for police interest in that person. The information about what the person highlighted is available to police investigation, or to any surveillance department of the government, of which there are many in the United States.
The information about what someone highlighted is also available to anyone who has access to the database. That may be a large number of Amazon employees, and even a large number of hackers, in the case of exploitation of a vulnerability.
My understanding is that the copyright to any modification someone makes to his or her copy of a book belongs to that person, even if it is just highlighting. He or she may not be able to publish that modification without permission from the copyright owner of the book, but the modification does belong to the person who made the modification. Any sneaky, after the fact change to Amazon's terms of use that gives Amazon rights to another person's creation is moral fraud, even if it is not legally actionable fraud.
One solution is to get books at the library.
As a (recently) former employee (new gig) of Lab126, the people who make the Kindle, I can assure you that only highlights are used in data collection, i.e. the selection from a start location to end location. When shown as popular highlights, they are just an underlining of text for those locations, as well as the number of users who have highlighted that selection. That is it, nothing more, nothing less.
No annotations are used that people have typed. Finally, the service is optional, with the ability to opt-in and opt-out on device. I'm pretty sure this has been stated in the kindle users guide, the legal menu item in settings, and on the website.
Modded up to 5:Interesting? Are you kidding me? Was it the water-tight credentials, his assurance, or his use of the word 'underlining'* that sealed it as interesting?
*the word "underlining" can often be interpreted as; 'my-recently-vacated-position-was-CTO/Acting-VIP-of-BizDev-and-not-junior-Web-Developer'
oops, perhaps I should stop highlighting the phrases that I use as secret keys for the book cipher when I send out instructions to my henchmen ?
Everyone highlight everything.
What this will do is make it pointless or biased if all is not highlighted.
And this would raise the question of who's controlling the bias of highlights.
There is also issues that can arise regarding education and cheating, using someone elses highlights and notes.
Maybe its time to get the school system involved here.
Highlighting should perhaps be a personally controlled and shared only with those you want to share with, even outside the mechanism of amazon control.
start a campaign to get as many people as possible to put the following note in EVERY amazon ebook they've bought:
"Amazon are evil bastards who should keep the fuck out of my private notes".
then see that become the most popular.
Well good? Since we have automatic copyright on annotations, it would be a ridiculous contradiction if a locked-down, DRM-laden, violates-the-right-to-read device took our copyrighted material and claimed fair use upon it, while at the same time denying us fair use by design.
Microsoft has fanboys? Mayhaps you refer to the boys Ballmer employs to keep him cool on a hot afternoon.
If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
If we are working on developing server side storage and data management, we're offering a "cloud based" computing solution and hopefully celebrating some big venture capital. If we are the customers are using it, the providers are well, "gathering our data". Of course Amazon is storing data on their servers. Of course everyone who has all that data is going to look for ways to monetize it. That's the whole point of server side computing, really.
This is my sig.
It's more likely than you think."
Why should I care that Amazon builds an aggregate summary?
You seriously believe it's just aggregate? Kind of like a job I applied for where my Race information would just be collected "in the aggregate", until the boss that wanted me to join his Agency told me that human resources was only going to send him resume's from minorities. How did they know my race if the data was only collected in the aggregate?
Should be the same with computers also and the software that runs on them. But we all know thats not true. We are constantly asked to opt in for anonymous data exchange.
Not saying I agree with this, because I don't. But this practice is nothing new for products we currently purchase.
Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
Posters have already commented on the possibility of pranking the system with weird passages - given the ability to reach diverse groups with social media this seems like a real possibility.
Taken a step further, how about teams vying to get quotes up. In a variation of geo-caching you could have quote-caching - some relative obscure quote from a free text; along with separate quotes for each team. First team to get their quote and their selected passage up gets a point; you'd need a quote-master to select the next one.
Writers could incorporate it into stories- the evil terrorists use it to send coded messages instead of buying ads in newspapers.
Publishers could get passages from books up to promote them.
The possibilities are endless...
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Go to every book you own, highlight the first 'F', the first 'U' after this, the first 'C' after this , the first 'K' after this , then first 'A', then 'M', then 'A', then 'Z'.... you get the idea.
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
WRT Kindle. This device was crucified on /. from the beginning and now Geeks assume that it eats little Geek children automatically with no opt-out.
Kindle:
1. Can be loaded with any books you want in the supported formats, including free books and homemade books.
2. Using Calibre (free software), you can convert just about anything to a Kindle-compatible format.
3. You can just plug the damned thing into your USB port, even in Linux, to transfer files. It acts as a FAT32 USB filesystem. MUCH more user-friendly than the very proprietary Sony readers.
4. You can switch wireless off and never, ever use if it you dislike the thought of connectivity.
5. There ARE VERY USEFUL features of connectivity, though. For example, in addition to a Kindle, I have the Kindle apps for iPhone and PC. Because all are connected, they all have the same books on them, and they all synchronize notes, bookmarks, and "current page" automatically. I can go from device to device to device transparently. Of course, this only works for books bought through Amazon, but that ought to make the privacy advocates happy.
6. All Amazon formats have been hacked, so if it makes you more comfortable, you can buy books on Amazon, decrypt and resave them under a new name, and then even if someday somehow Amazon decides to delete books from Kindles, it won't get yours.
7. The feature being talked about in this /. story is opt-in and documented, which is the correct policy that most /. users say they want.
Honestly, it's like Apple stories on /. You could have a story that says "Amazon.com gives billions to charity" or "Apple invests billions in rainforest preservation" and people would scream "MY GOD STOP THEIR TOTAL PLAN FOR EVIL WORLD DOMINATION NOW THEY ARE STEALING YOUR SOUL AND YOU WILL BE SORRY!"
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
Back before this website's buyout, editors used to post reasonable things... and commenters would fly off in random crazy directions without having RTFA.
Today, the editors fly off in random crazy directions without having RTFA... and half of the comments are reasonable things posted to correct the misinformation.
In this story, the data collection in question is widely publicized to Kindle owners. And it is disabled by default... users must opt-in, not opt-out. There is nothing more to see here, move along.
Please people, don't feed the trolls... by "trolls", I mean "today's Slashdot editorial staff". When you see some post about digital rights armageddon or corporate bad behavior, fight the impulse to fire off a knee-jerk comment in response. RTFA instead, or simply wait 15 minutes... and other people will RTFA and post comments explaining why the editor is a misleading troll. There are plenty of things to talk about and focus on in the digital rights area, but Slashdot takes advantage of people's passion with inflammatory fluff... and it hurts the credibility of digital rights in the big picture.
Yes, Microsoft has fanboys. I've worked with some. Often its about the Xbox and Halo, but some people seriously think that Windows, IE, and Office are It. It's the same mentality that leads some people to think that The Phantom Menace should've won the Oscar for Best Picture because it was the top-grossing film that year, or that Kelly Clarkson is one of the greatest singers in America because so many people voted for her on American Idol. They can sometimes be identified by a venomous hatred of Apple or Linux (usually based on the Mac Performa they used one semester in junior high, or seeing someone use vi on a GUI-less Linux box), rather than overt boosterism about the House of Clippy.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
I thought when Amazon removed 1984 a few years ago a few people were upset specifically because they lost their notes on the book, but then Amazon was able to restore those? Seems like this should have been obvious for years.
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
I really interested in what the reasoning was behind all of this. Most people highlight because of their professor/teacher, not for entertainment. The small subset of reference or self-help books which users are likely to independently highlight give you snippets and keywords which are going to be useless outside of context. Bible study, book clubs - it's all groupthink, and you're going to reinforce the importance of specific parts without users coming to the same conclusion.
You're going to end up with mandated highlights from classes which will overwhelm any valuabe personal opinion, and jargon-infested noise.
I see someone coming up with lesson plans based on the most highlighted passages, which are obviously much more important, and missing the structural foundation of the story. In other words, no good can come of this.
The most interesting data would actually be the *least* highlighted passages. That is, the ones that someone saw as important when no one else did. Especially in reference material or scientific journals - picking out what all but one guy missed and considering its importance. But if that pattern emerged, where people are thought-jacking before someone has completed their reading, people are going to complain.
I don't see any possible way this would be truly useful except in the "what are other people searching for in google" type way.
Plus my notes are copyrighted as soon as I type them, so you would need a clause in the opt-in agreement that specifically grants a copyright waiver for the following etc. and that's an agreement that cannot be retroactively changed. Copyright is serious business.
Most importantly, hardware that you own doesn't "phone home" unless you specifically configure it to do so.
They have made this configuration radically simple to carry out. Just turn the wireless off, leave it off, and use your USB port to transfer your data.
And for the tinfoil hatters who say "How do you know it's really off? How do you know the switch is actually connected to anything?" and so on... Well, how do you know there's no microphone, GSM transmitter, and SIM card buried in your kitchen stove secretly sending all of your conversations to Whirlpool?
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
opt-in actually own the device in question. Of course they can't be trusted to tell the truth because they are automatons and astroturfers whose brains were replaced by Amazon.com in 1984, apparently.
Sheesh.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
I've been pissed at you ever since the whole 1-click patent fiasco, but I buy things (other than Kindle ) from you simply because it's so easy and convenient. I may have to start seriously considering alternatives.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
Just log into Amazon.com and turn Whispernet synchronization on and/or off for all of your devices at once.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
in some academic books. Two purposes:
1) Highlighting is a cognitive tool; when I highlight I am reading it for a second time and seeing the text "altered" as I read over it. It makes it easier to recall later on.
2) When I come back to the text, I know that I can safely ignore all of the non-highlighted bits. It reduces the effective size of the book by 50-70 percent, making skimming much more rapid and easy when I come back.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
That's already far, far too much. Beyond the beyonds in fact. However I'm sure it seems utterly innocuous to the kind of people already engaged in wholesale data collection. If ever there was an example of entry level drugs leading on to harder and harder types, data is it. They started with name and address, moved on to purchase history, then browsing history, and now they're on what parts of the book you highlight. Pretty soon they'll want to know the times you read(If they don't already) and where you're reading things. Corporations are serious data junkies and they are jonseing bad.
Optional, but on by default. Why am I not surprised? This is the same logic used by spammers, telemarketing scammers, credit card fraudsters, and (waxing rhetorical) rapists. "They didn't say 'No', so what I'm doing is OK." People don't want this data shared; doing it under their noses and giving them a hidden switch does not make it OK.
As far as I'm concerned, if you people aren't already involved in a criminal enterprise, you soon will be. Even if these practices don't become illegal, you'll eventually trespass to the point where they become so.
May the Maths Be with you!
You remind me of a fellow who once told me that "Top 40" music is by definition the best music.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
Pretty sure the little Kindle manual tells you that your notes and highlights are archived on Amazon's servers.
At least, mine did.
If you are paranoid about this, don't make highlights or notes. Not that most of you do, anyway.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Nobody reads the manual, website, or legal menu. That reminds me of HHGTTG.
The fatal flaw in your argument is your unspoken assumption that a specific type of hardware owned by the provider is necessary to implement this scenario. I can think of three examples off the top of my head that invalidate that assumption. The first is available for MS Windows and OS/X today; Valve's Steam service.
"Ahh," you say, "That's for games, not books." True, but let's take a look at what Steam provides anyhow. There are hundreds of games from dozens of companies available through the store. The store is set up to allow an individual to purchase, download, and install any game listed on multiple PCs as long as only one login is active at any time.
The second is O'Reilly Publishing's Safari Books Online. This browser based, subscription service allows you to search through all of the online publications that O'Reilly has created. Depending upon the level of subscription that you buy, you can download immediately, or purchase access to, any publication that catches your interest.
The final example is Baen Publishing's Webscription.Net. Here you'll find books from Baen and six other publishing companies. Again, browser based so no special hardware necessary.
Although the name implies an ongoing charge to access material, no such subscription is required. Buy a book once and you can download it in several different DRM free formats. (Yes I said DRM FREE!)
Webscription keeps track of what you have already purchased, so a lost or trashed copy is no problem. Just log in and download your books again.
(BTW, Baen Publishing also hosts the Baen Free Library as a marketing tool. More than 40 authors have agreed to post some or all of their books there for free. Yes, I said FREE. DRM free, too. You don't even have to create an account to get access to all this largesse. :) Well worth browsing if you like science fiction or fantasy.)
Of the three alternate services that I've noted above, Webscription is clearly the most user friendly. What Amazon can provide that the other services can't is a much, MUCH broader range of material. That is a huge advantage and in IMO that is what is driving Kindle sales more than any other factor. (I don't mean to say that I think the hardware itself is trash. Quite the contrary.)
The nub of the issue is that any vendor supplied solution inevitably means is that you're locked in to some extent. It's the nature of the beast. The question is, how much lock-in are you willing to accept in order to take advantage of the service? How much re-use of your personal information are you willing to accept?
Getting back to the immediate issue at hand: In my view, the fact that (a) it's only highlights; (b) it's anonymized; and (c) it's turned off by default makes it a pretty benign use of personal information. Frankly, if Amazon offered similar functionality as software on a platform that I already owned, I might seriously consider using it.
The real issue for me is that I have no d
Oh come on..
The kindle app shows you popular passages that other people highlighted, it only takes half a brain to realize that for this feature they must be storing your and everybody else's highlights..
Seriously.. Just to mess them them up I am highlighting every mistake they make in the OCR process. I am sick to sec those scanning mistakes.
T.
My other sig is Funny.
As is often the case here the cited article http://techdirt.com/articles/20100511/1018059377.shtml is just a highlight of a more thoughtful article http://redtape.msnbc.com/2010/05/as-the-battle-of-e-book-readers-heats-up-amazon-is-trying-to-beat-the-competition-by-continually-adding-new-features-to-its.html which reveals far more detail (yes, not only did I read TFA but TFAFA as well).
This "feature" is not required; a user can turn off "Annotations Backup" on their Kindle.
My concerns are these:
1) When privacy issues are implicated the default option should always require explicit "opt-in."
2) While this provides a helpful feature (the ability to retrieve one's annotations should they lose the data and wish to go to Amazon for a back-up) the only way to receive the benefit is by allowing aggregation of one's personal notes.
3) Will users understand the potential privacy implications? When dealing with tech issues I think of what my Mom would think and I doubt she'd realize that this could be a "bad" thing.
So... although this issue isn't necessarily as alarming as the summary above it is an issue that needs to be addressed. I've always liked Amazon and am hopeful that the Kindle privacy issues are the result of the same lone asshat who decided to delete "1984" and "Animal Farm" from Kindles last year. If so then it's time for said asshat to move on (Facebook would be a logical place) and allow the Kindle to flourish without any undue asshattery.
Oh, and could we stop playing "telephone game" with the articles on here? It doesn't take much time to locate a relevant (and more authoritative) source. I don't fully understand the "article approval process" but it seems that poorly cited / inaccurate summaries are more often the rule than the exception. My attempts to have any articles approved have been wholly unsuccessful and I'm not keen on engaging in deceptive hyperbole to change that.
JAGga.me ----> Producing video games addressing emotional health and wellness issues affecting teens.
So... Amazon will know everywhere I crossed a word out and replaced it with "goat" in my copy of the kama sutra? Wonder what this will do for that area of their page that recommends products to me based on things I've previously done on their site...
I believe what you're looking for is the new "paperback" book reader. Text shows up on an organic, fibrous display via the PII (physical ink imprint) protocol. There's no backlight, so you may need a lamp next to your bed, but daylight visibility is unmatched, and I have yet to exhaust the battery on one. There's even a special exception that lets you use them on airplanes during takeoff and landing. And the text delivery is strictly one-way---there's no backhaul connection to the publisher. They're basically impossible to hack without physical access to the terminal, and they tend to be very error tolerant (I've seen some that have still been usable after being left in rain and mud). You may even have a local repository near you where they will loan you a reader for free. And they're so pervasive, even Amazon has started selling some now. You should check it out!
Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
There's no way this could possibly backfire on Amazon, like for instance if we organized everybody with a Kindle to buy the same book, and make the same note on the same page to guarantee it makes the "most popular" position. Especially if that note is simply "Amazon sucks!!!" And of course, if Amazon chooses to censor the note, they then become responsible for all content.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Have you ever found anyone else's notes or highlighted passages anything but silly and obvious? I must be finding books in all the wrong places. I guess it's good for a laugh sometimes.
Buy a book,then for sure amazon cant spy on you :)
Jack of all trades,master of none
But how long before a kid get's in trouble because the court is showed what part of the anarchist cookbook or the hackers quarterly he underlined, "clearly demonstrating his intend to do the actions for which he is now accused of"?
How is this information kept? For how long? How would amazon answer to a court order to hand out a user's book list and underlines?
Why should we have less protection using a kindle that when we borrow from a public library?
I can't wait to see who comes out of the woodwork to defend Amazon on this one, and what sort of faux reasoning they use to do it.
Well I will for one, because I don't see where Amazon have done anything wrong. Point out to me where the "faux reasoning is".
Here are the facts of this:
- The data is anonymized
- The data is only published in aggregate
- The change was publicised in the Kindle forums, by email and in a new manual being sent out
- The change only sends highlights, not annotations. (The Techdirt writer seems to have misunderstood the article they cited and invented the annotations part)
- The setting defaults to off.
So Amazon have offered to collect anonymized data, with the user's express permission, which would then only be published in aggregate. And to make sure the users understand what this means they are sending out an updated manual with an explanation.
This is exactly what they should have done. They want to introduce a cool new feature and they're doing it in a way that doesn't hurt anyone. This is the behaviour that we want from retailers. Unfortunately, the fact that they did everything right doesn't really matter because there are so many people - the writers of the Techdirt article, the submitter, the Slashdot editors and you - who are so keen to rant about big business violating their right to privacy that they don't even stop to check what's actually going on. If you'd clicked through the actual articles first you would know that there's nothing to be worried about.
...the more money they made the next day on the streets. Those three things--autonomy, complexity, and a connection between effort and reward--are, most people agree, the three qualities that work has to have if it is to be satisfying. It is not how much money we make that ultimately makes us happy between nine and five. It's whether our work fulfills us.
-- The Kindle's most highlighted passage, from Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers: The Story of Success
http://kindle.amazon.com/popular_highlights
http://www.talknerdy.org
1. You bought a book
2. You read the book
3. Write annotations and notes about the book
4. Amazon reads the notes
5. Amazon calls the police
6. Police arrests you for committing a thoughtcrime
7. You are thrown into Room 101
8. Police erases you from public record and public archive, making you an unperson
9. Amazon changed the book on Kindle so that the portion that the note referring to no longer exist
It is the fact that, once I buy a (e)-book, I don't want to hear from or interact with the publisher ever again concerning that purchase. Money exchanged, goods recieved, and that's the end of it. Period and finished.
And that's neat, and I feel where you're coming from, but most people really don't care. If Amazon can find a buck or two in value using something that people don't even notice the impact of giving, it's a sustainable enough business model.
There's no reason why an e-reader necessarily HAS to have communications capability. Most don't. Use those if this matters to you so much. I have a Sony Reader myself, and only communicated with them once for a firmware upgrade immediately after purchase (to add support for the open ePub file format). I don't even buy books through their store.
You get numerous books in your field of study. Take a large number of notes that you will use to write your thesis. Sudenly half of your thesis creation work is available to anyone buying the same books (probably other students / prof. in the field).
Yeah. I really do not mind.
7/10 -- pretty good, but you could use a bit more tinfoil.
Clearly you don't understand or realize the extent of "data mining". As well, my public library reading list requires a search warrant. Not so with Amazon, my employer / landlord / banker need only pay up.
Data mining is *BIG BUSINESS*, what do you think people PAY for that data for?
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
What if you work in a classified area (e.g. the aerospace sector) and buy a book on Kalman Filtering (I believe these books still can't be sent to Russia) and take notes. Are you and Amazon both guilty of ITAR violation for passing controlled goods to their un-cleared server admins?
No, I'm not. It's one of many reasons why I use Open Source. I remember this vaguely because it was some time ago, but I *think* OpenOffice asked me one time if I would like to be counted among their users for purposes of measuring their marketshare, but that's the sole example I can name. I answered "No" (which I think was the default option, could be wrong) and it never asked me about that again. Either way, a single one-time example in the 13-14 years that I have used Linux is a far cry from "constantly" being asked. Then there's the fact that when OpenOffice says "this data is not personally identifying" I tend to believe them, because if they lied about it a reading of the source code would expose them.
Only because we (well, in my case, "they") tolerate it.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
A few months ago Amazon repossessed every copy of 1984 they'd sold to Kindle users. In the process, this deleted all the notes that a user had made in his copy, and he decided that this was double-plus ungood and sued them. If I were to guess, I'd say that by making backups of everybody's notes and highlights, they're trying to give themselves a defense for the next time they want to make something an un-book.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
That purchase is clearly on hold.
The Nook is looking good and even the Apple iPad is looking good again. However no electronic book reader is a winner yet.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
Then search for it monthly and if you find it issue a take down notice. Use some hash function like a unix password to generate the tag so you can prove the tag is yours.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
...snip...
The most interesting data would actually be the *least* highlighted passages. That is, the ones that someone saw as important when no one else did.
Good point... like comments in a program. A beginner might make comments about the programming language syntax itself. A solid programmer might comment on his intention. An advanced programmer might comment on other uses in addition to the current one. A wizard might see no need to comment at all.
Ain't it obvious.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
You're NOT automatically opted-in. ....snip....
Just turn it on when you want to download a book and turn it back off when you're done. Geez people...
But if you turn it on to download then they can delete books and update firmware and change features.
Anyone with pets knows that if you open the door for the pizza delivery the cat can escape.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.