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China Rejects US Piracy Claims As "Groundless"
eldavojohn writes "Earlier this month, a United States piracy list fingered China, Russia, and Canada as the first, second and third worst governments (respectively) for enforcing copyright policy in the world. China's Foreign Ministry has rejected these claims as 'groundless' just before meeting with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Monday and Tuesday in Beijing to address copyright policy. The official Chinese statement read, 'The involved US Congress members should respect the fact and stop making groundless accusations against China.' The plan nevertheless remains to use the visit to pressure China into overhauling its failed attempts to curb piracy, since software piracy in China appears to be a social norm, with the Chinese government possibly even leading by example."
Software piracy in china appear to be social norm, along with the rest of the world.
I hope they do start to enforce copyright more on software. It is likely to steer them more towards FOSS solutions and that will ultimately benefit them and everyone else, too.
Then what exactly is made during the third or "ghost" shift in China, not at the request of any outside company?
Another thing of note, explain all the pirated movies and software that gets sold in that country (or is that always "Not from our family" or from someone out of favor?).
The only thing that's groundless is China's posturing.
Yeah, and what exactly are Americans downloading from The Pirate Bay or LimeWire? Linux ISOs? Maybe the US should be on that list, too. Oh, and all the Americans dealing drugs? Clearly the US is doing nothing to stop them.
Fun fact: People break laws. It's hardly something to blame either government for (and whether or not the laws are just is a whole different question entirely).
Want a high quality FOSS RTS game? Try Warzone 2100!
It is BS. They don't like our tarrif based system for music. Buy a blank CD and a portion of it goes to the recording industry. They want us to adopt their laws so they can start the lawsuits the RIAA and MPAA are so famous for. Sorry, we will fight it tooth and nail. Our privacy, unlike the US, is paramount here. BTW, having friends and colleagues that live and work in China, they have told me countless times that companies, such as Micro$oft, encouraged piracy so the population will get hooked on the product and they can increase their market share. One of my friends actually worked for M$ and he confirmed it. That was 6 years ago, he has moved on since.
But Africa is neither a threat to us nor a rival to us. So it need not be demonized. Propaganda is an expensive thing. In these economically troubled times, we wouldn't want to waste our propaganda machines.
Canada is up to #3 Woohoo!
Warner Music Canada, Sony BMG Music Canada, EMI Music Canada, and Universal Music Canada are responsible for (up to) 6 billion worth of infringement themselves. Just a bit more than the 710 million claimed.
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/735096--geist-record-industry-faces-liability-over-infringement
Then again, its probably statutory damages vs. actual losses.
Still, I'm proud to be on the list again. Thanks!
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
The US position is understandable as is the position of the rest of the world.
The US is gearing itself more and more to an IP economy, sell knowledge/ideas rather then the products themselves. Apple thinks of the iPod and gets paid for this idea while the actual production and shipping can be done somewhere else. The US is not involved at all in a iPod sold in Holland. So how does Apple ensure it gets paid if not with the enforcement of the concept of IP that tells people you can't just copy their design?
With software and media content, who cares who made it originally? Despite claims by MS that copies of its software have malware pre-installed (they must be thinking of Sony's PC, that now come with a paid for feature to get a clean install) the fact is that I can save myself a lot of money by just heading over to the piratebay for my game PC. (And yes I do still buy games, just not the OS and no I don't care about a raid because I got dozens of licenses lying around from machines that got liberated with the help of the penguin)
And for me, a MS license is not all that expensive for someone living on minimum income, in a nation where a license can come close to a months or even years wages... well the choice is even easier.
The US by continuing to turn into a knowledge only culture (describing the US as a knowledge culture, I am going to have to hand in my EU citizen card for this one) is doing the samething the Brits did pre-WW2. "Why should we produce our own food when we can have foreigners do this for us cheaper and can then use our country side for hunting instead". Capital idea, except that nasty Mr Hitler threw a spanner in the works by sinking the ships bringing in the food. What a rotter.
The knowledge/IP economy only works when everyone is willing to play along. It is easy to argue that everyone benefits but clearly not everyone seems to agree. With a physical goods economy (the one the US got really really big on) it is easier to force people to play along. You can just stop shipments if someone breaks the rules. And it is rather hard to steal 1000tons of goods. Just ask the somali pirates what happens to you when you try to steal US cargo. "TRIPLE SYNCHRONIZED HEADSHOT!" (in Unreal commentator voice). And that is if you are a lucky pirate. The russian put some in a rubber boat that just somehow managed to sink... well worse things happen at sea, especially if you upset russians.
But IP? You don't even have to go to the source, the "victim" just happily sends it to you. If the US wants to sell a DVD in China, it got to send the DVD and then just anyone can copy it/steal it. It is an insane system to rely on for your economy. You don't see Shell going around filling everyone's gas tank then hoping they will pay up?
What is China's motivation for respecting US IP? So that money from its economy floats to the west? How does that aid them? (Well it would allow the US to at least start paying some of its massive debts back) The US is banking its economy on a sector were you really depend on the kindness of strangers. Which seems odd since that is not really what capitalists are best at.
When Germany declared war on Britian, they had to spend a fortune on submarines to attempt to "sink" the UK's economy. If China were to declare war, all it would need to do is stop payments for IP. Oh and stop sending goods. No need to sink cargo vessels, just not let them sail anymore. The battle for the pacific would be won with a piece of paper. What would the US do, bomb Chinese ports to force the sunken ships to sail? Block Chinese banks so the money for IP couldn't be transferred even more?
An IP based economy relies far to much on the recognition that IP has to be paid for and to anyone who doesn't have IP that recognition has no positive sides. China/Russia/Canada/EU/Africa do not gain anything from recognizing US IP. Sure, they probably play along because their politicians either want to keep the peace or are corrupted by lobbyists, but how long will that
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I can't really speak for China or Russia, but Canada is no more a haven for pirating than the US. What makes Canada a "problem" is that they have some of the best laws in the world regarding the privacy of its citizens. So that means that a corporation can't just go to an ISP and demand information on a random user and have their account suspended without due process. So Canada's problem is that it values people over corporations.
Oh, and for the record, I'm an American, not Canadian; and yes, I am jealous.
When legitimate American companies deny with IP blocking access to Canadians what other solutions are there ? I can buy CDs from Amazon yet MP3 have been blocked from downloading some weeks after the service was introduced after I had already bought several hard to find albums. Many American companies will go as far as saying they don't ship 'overseas' when blocking Canada, which is funny considering Hawaii or Alaska is further away than 90% of the Canadian population
I live in China (Harbin, to be exact).
The ONLY shops here that seem to sell legal software are some of the supermarket chains. In fact, the only legal software I see in any quantity (and not much of that)are PS3 games, since they haven't been cracked yet. These sell for about 300-400 rmb ($40-$60). Compare that to any other computer game of 4-7 rmb ($0.5-$1).
Same thing with movies. I can often buy the DVD release of a movie before it's available in the west, complete with picture insert and so forth, for around $1.
I understand that music is not a big seller since everyone downloads it.
I often discuss this my students (I'm an English teacher) and, quite literally, EVERYBODY buys / downloads / uses copied media. It's part of the fabric of the country. Since the government love to keep the people happy, you aren't going to see any change whatsoever on this in the near future, despite whatever the Chinese government may say.
The only two examples I know of that seem to 'sell' software with any success is WOW, since they have a separate Chinese micro-payment system, and QQ, an instant messaging service, which also handles micro-transactions (you can upgrade your avatar with extra clothes, and many other things - I've never looked to closely).
We Canadians are abiding by our laws just as well as any other country in the world, including the US. Its just that the US Media conglomerates have not succeeded in shoving their idea of strict IP laws down our throats yet, despite their best efforts at bribing our officials. As a result, we see entirely biased bullshit like this announced.
I am sure that in China there is a problem with recognizing the rediculous way that patents and IP are being treated. People are copying technology and selling it and thats probably a real problem for US companies that rely on obedience to US laws to enforce their business models. I can imagine that some of the same is going on in Russia. But Canada? What is the possible origin of lumping Canada in there? Could it be that we have a (gasp) different understanding of fair use and so far (despite our "Conservative" government) have stuck to our guns and maintained our stance? I pay an extra few bucks every time I buy data CDs - why? Because that money is (theoretically at least) being collected to compensate Canadian artists should I choose to do something that infringes on their rights - even if all I actually do is, you know, use them to store data/do backups. Its legal in Canada to download music you don't own I am told (I don't listen to more than a few songs a year on my computer and I think I have a total of 12 mp3s on my system), its just illegal to upload it. I suspect that our stance on fair use, and unwillingness to just roll over and take it up the ass from US companies is the origin of the inclusion of Canada on this list.
Well fuck them then.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Go fuck yourselves or pay me back my cash you assholes!
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Wiki \/
A blank media levy was introduced in Canada in 1997, by the addition of Part VIII, "Private Copying", to the Canadian Copyright Act.
On every blank CD or DVD I have bought in the past seven years or so! That's about 1000 DVD's. I'm a photographer backing up MY OWN WORK. And still paying a copyright fee because I May have copied. Lame fucking shit. American lobbyists stay the fuck away from my parliament!
We can't pressure China to do anything unless we are willing to risk total warefar with them. All they have to do is threaten a minor hiccup in treasury purchases and we just lost our testicles. Oh and don't go with they need us just as much as we need them economically crap. No they don't. They have a rising rest of Asia, Russian Federation, Europe and India to sell cheap stuff to. Oh yes it would slow them down a great deal but not like what it would do to us; not at all.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Turnabout?
Q: How many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None. They just redefine darkness as a standard.
Q: How bad is software piracy in China.
A: The Chinese do not pirate. That is a normal operation.
Why do China and North Korea always deny everything with such strong wording, or make threats rather than say something like "We will look into this matter further"? They do it even when its obvious they did something or FAILED to do something. China : QUOTE : 'The involved US Congress members should respect the fact and stop making groundless accusations against China.' North Korea : QUOTE : "If there were indications that the sinking was our doing, then the whole thing is an act — theatrics by the South Koreans to implicate us," QUOTE : "If (South Korea) tries to deal any retaliation or punishment, or if they try sanctions or a strike on us .... we will answer to this with all-out war"
That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
1.25 USD per disc
That the main point and why so called "piracy" is also rampant in these various other nations. These media distributors are seriously price gouging, they have some insane idea of what their "copies" are allegedly worth, so the market routes around their idiocy. And everyone knows it. If they made these copies closer to that chinese knock off price, that is also closer to a "fair" price for duplication copies using today's tech. They could make up the difference on volume sales. Instead, 20 bucks a disk, DRM, warnings, etc, then bitch up and down and sideways over piracy.
I mean..duh
Back when making a physical copy actually cost a whole lot more, charging an appropriate price was fair and understandable. This is not the case now, especially with digital downloads, let alone what everyone knows is the price for blank media and making copies in bulk. The **AA cartel just needs to get seriously real on prices, they should have done it years ago. What they charge to *rent* a disk they could afford to just outright sell it, and still make good profit, especially if they kept the packaging costs low. Just stick them in cheap printed paper sleeves, sell for a few bucks, at least have that option. If people wanted the full jewel case and liner notes, swell, charge another couple of bucks, up to but not exceeding five dollars. $20 for a disk is out to lunch, 99 cents for a few megs download is out to lunch as well, the old "allofmp3" prices were a lot fairer.
And yes, to nip the indignant knee jerk reaction in advance, I am fully aware of production costs. That's not the point, they are carved in stone, called a sunk price, after that you want to sell as many copies as possible to make your profit. "Oh noes, I need to charge twenty for this stamped disk to make money, plus this is "what the market will bear". Nope, incorrect again, this is why there is so much piracy, the "market" mostly thinks 20 bucks for a disk is ludicrous, it is *not* bearing it except in way high paid a few nations and only a small subset in those nations. Look again at the parent post, a buck 25 is closer to what the global market of 6.5 billion people can afford. A small fraction of your potential market has enough disposable cash (now, watch as the economy keeps tanking...) to think 20 is cool, the vast bulk of humanity thinks anyone-you the media copy seller are nuts and will not pay that price, and they don't. It's been the collective global big finger to those sort of bloated prices.
Stop price gouging on non scarce and very cheap resources, see what happens.
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5049/125/
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Use your work and the other several billion bucks worth of open source work you are allowed to use freely in some business that "makes money". Use it
I suggest for hints on "what business" start on page one of the yellow pages, A to Z, most business today uses software and computers. Just peruse around, see what interests you.
We produce food here on this farm, poultry and beef. We don't get paid for every skill set and work hour directly, there's no direct pay for picking up a tool and using it. We use these developed skills in an overall "business". OK, this week I am haying. Yesterday the magic smoke wafted out of my primary disk mower...grumble. Oh ya, had *two* flats on a tedder as well, one of which required me changing out a shredded tire, using tire irons and a lot of sweat. So, because I need to hay *now* and can't wait on parts and the time to fix the newer big mower, I had to dig out the older like thirty year old mower and make it work. It's satup and rusted out like a long time. This involved machining a driveshaft to fit, to make it suitable for purpose, among other things. Took some hours, but got a good piece cut today, I'll finish up tomorrow.
I don't get paid for tire changing, I don't get paid for machining and repairing directly, I don't submit an invoice for tractor jockeying..none of that do I get directly paid for. I *do* get paid for doing all these various things when product gets sold, and *if* there is a profit. This is "business", we use a ton of tools and skillsets that have to be developed in "business" and offer a real tangible product for sale. Other folks have service businesses that they do the same at. I can't just sit around and wait for flats to fix, and just that, or wait for something to break then dig out the wrenches, and charge just for that and insist that is all I am going to do. I can't just say to joe farm boss I am only going to operate a tractor, nothing else. I'd get bounced and wouldn't make any money, none.
Anyway, that's how you "make money" with tools and the developed skills to use them, you *use* the tools in some *other* real business. Having to custom make tools and parts, etc, think outside the box, come up with solutions and innovations, that haven't been done before, whatever, is quite common outside of the software "tool" business, that is how people keep going with their jobs that pay the rent, etc.
This stuff you expect to sell..your customers must use it, what do they do for a business, how do they use these tools to make money? Your solution might be just looking what they do to make cash. If they can make profit off of your work, you might be able to make double that profit if you did that sort of work yourself, with your custom designed software tools.