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Lost Ends

Unless you live in a hatch somewhere, you are probably aware that Lost has ended. If you want a simple, clear explanation of exactly how the series resolved, Lost Untangled will do nothing to clarify things for you. For everyone else, I provide this discussion thread for you to complain/revel in the most spoiler-laden manner you desire.

98 of 955 comments (clear)

  1. Was Not Impressed at All by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Note: what follows is my own opinion. Many viewers that were more attentive than I were very satisfied with and emotionally moved by the ending.

    I've always been bicuriously Lost as the show would sometimes give me a feeling that something more was going on that would eventually be revealed. So, having caught a number of episodes early on, I started watching Season Five religiously in order to prepare myself for the ending. But at the end of Season Five with no end in sight and only more questions and more characters (and a freaking reset button that later turned out to be a multiverse splitting mechanism), I gave up. Until I watched the last episode last night in hopes that the island would have some greater meaning. It didn't. Well, it tried to I guess but everyone's got their own interpretation of what they saw last night.

    So many questions I have went completely unanswered. Questions about Walt, why Faraday never recognized Desmond (the guy that unexpectedly gave him the constants to time travel one day) when Faraday landed on the island, the properties of the multiverses (some people seem to care about the futures of the other multiverse even though they shouldn't know about it until they're dead), why the black cloud killed who it did and left others (especially now that we know more about the black cloud), the list goes on and on. The worst of it is if you take each character individually and reassemble their timelines in sequential order that the episodes slowly piecemeal it out to you -- everyone is a goddamn psychotic sociopath. No rhyme or reason to the actions of half the characters. And it's not even Lord of the Flies neurosis ... just unexplainable U-turns in morality and logic.

    The show started out very concrete, real and physical and slowly absolved into symbolism with last night being such pure symbolism that you cannot say for sure when they died or what the afterlife was or what the church represented or where they went at the end when the doors were opened. It reminded me of a few anime series I watched in this respect where the shows digress into absolving themselves of anything earthly or logical in some sort of ethereal climax of visual and auditory sequence or cues. Problem was that none of Lost's resolutions sat well with me.

    I sympathize with the writers as they had no idea how many seasons they would get but in the end I must admit I found the writing to be more or less utter drivel. Designed only to get you to keep watching with little if any satisfactory explanations. Everyone was a chaotic actor in the past, present and alternate multiverse. Writing that many flash sideways scenes as plot devices is -- quite frankly -- juvenile at best. Also the lead writer had refuted the theory that everyone was dead, in purgatory, in heaven or in hell. Yet, at the end they're clearly in some sort of afterlife.

    The series offered closure on what happened eventually to everyone but no closure whatsoever as to what the island was and how its mechanations functioned -- even on a magical fantasy level. I was intrigued with Donnie Darko when the ending was left open to interpretation but Lost takes it to a whole new (unbearable for me) level. I hope other people enjoyed the ending but for me it was a complete indication not to devote anymore time to this series or these writers. Still better than 85% of what you'll find on TV but that isn't saying much.

    They could have done a lot of neat things with tying down loose ends, explaining the island and completing their work. Instead they gave us this. And finally I see no further point in discussing it because there's no hope of ever explaining anything. Unlike a finely crafted classic novel, the grand symbolism and allusions are too abstract to nail down. So what's the point? Everyone's going to experience the series differently and for me it was just some guys writing a seria

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My issue with Lost is that the entire series was sold with the premise of 'theres a mystery, watch to find out what it is'. Its built up and built up, so many things are hyped and then discarded, and when we get to the final episode ... nothing.

      Battlestar Galactica was bad enough for me - they had a decent storyline they were following which had plenty of potential, but it all got spoiled for me when the writers admitted halfway through Season 3 that the entire Final Five thing was an accident. They only started with the Final Five thing when it became obvious that the fans had latched onto it as a 'thing'. Then they revealed that they chose the Final Five in a writers committee meeting only a short while before they were revealed to the viewers!

      Lost seems to have gone the same way - lots of potential, lots of hype of a huge story arc and nothing.

    2. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Capt+James+McCarthy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ok. What happened on the island did happen. It was the real timeline. The 'other' timeline was not created by the bomb going off. It was just a jumping point into purgatory. Those who showed up at the church, became at peace with their 'former' timeine and moved on. So, others who were not there but on the island could have moved on before, after, or not at all (eloeise Hawking for example). Faraday had not had is 'wake up' moment yet with Charlotte. But he may since he just met her there. Then move on later. So the 'sideways' timeline could have been thousands of our timeline years since Hurley could have been guardian for the island for who know's how long before he joined the group at the church. Sawyer could have lived to be 90, but then died and reverted back to the 'sideways' timeline so he could join the group at the point of time for him/them that was the most significant. The show wasn't about the island itself. It never was. It was about the folks who survived the initial crash and moved on. The second flight did leave the island. And Jack did die in the bamboo. But it took them all to die on their own time before they all met back up in the sideways. So Ben had not yet been at peace with his actions to enter the church. It's all very Catholic at it's core. Now if you were looking for what the island was or were it came from, that, I'm afraid is going to be another story. Or you could use your imagination. That is the idea here. Every person enjoying the story at their own level.

      --
      There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
    3. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by kLaNk · · Score: 2

      Never watched it. Should I care? Do they have a solution to the oil slick in the Gulf? Do I have MY priorities straight?

      Why is Mr. High-And-Mighty bothering to post on /. with such important world matters such as the oil in the Gulf, world hunger, nuclear proliferation and North/South Korean relationships escalating?

      You must live a very busy life.

    4. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by johnlcallaway · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lost was sold as a way to make money for the networks and advertisers. Sadly, thousands (millions??) of people felt it necessary to watch it.

      Fortunately, I was not one of them.

      --
      I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
    5. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Thanshin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Never watched it. Should I care? Do they have a solution to the oil slick in the Gulf? Do I have MY priorities straight?

      No, you don't.

      How can you be chatting about the oil spill when there are so many children starving in Africa? Get your priorities straight, man.

    6. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Fine, you don't consider Lost to be your level of entertainment - but do you really need to come into this thread and post in a self-righteous manner about how you think its 'sad' that millions of people did enjoy watching Lost week to week?

    7. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by mttlg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They could have done a lot of neat things with tying down loose ends, explaining the island and completing their work. Instead they gave us this. And finally I see no further point in discussing it because there's no hope of ever explaining anything.

      The final twist was that the show wasn't about the island at all, it was about a bunch of annoying characters. I passed on the first season because I had no interest in a "bunch of people stuck on an island" show (without even a million dollar prize), but decided to watch when it looked like the show was more than that. Surprise, surprise, it wasn't. It was a good show, and the ending was fitting, but it's still frustrating for the creators to basically say that all of the mysteries never really mattered. The numbers? Just numbers. Walt? He's busy trying to live while being officially dead. The rules? Oh, that was just a Jacob thing, he's gone now. The Frozen Donkey Wheel? That's just the magical escape hatch, no big deal. The statue? Just a statue that got hit by a ship a while back. The smoke monster? Hey, Target has smoke detectors for $10.99. And the light? Just leave the key in the ignition and the world won't end. What was the point? As Charlton Heston would say, "It's people. Lost is made out of people."

    8. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by rubycodez · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've only seen half of one Lost episode in my life, and I thank you for confirming my determination that it would have been an utter waste of life to watch.

      had to laugh at "unless you live in a hatch somewhere" phrase in the article, seems to me that would describe the viewing audience. well ok, I'm just as bad, I love anime, waiting for Black Lagoon OVAs, 8th episode of Hellsing Ultimate, Shana third season, etc.etc.

    9. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by joebagodonuts · · Score: 4, Funny

      ... Do I have MY priorities straight?

      If you are posting THAT on /, probably not.

      --
      "Give a woman two glasses of wine and some pad thai, and they'll agree to just about anything." the Sports Guy
    10. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Oldstench · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As lovely as the conclusion was for the characters, it does nothing for the viewers who were sold for 5 seasons on the concept of the mysterious island with shitloads of secrets which give rise to even more questions that would eventually be answered. Unfortunately that is not what we got. It feels like the writers painted themselves into a corner and were unable to come up with a satisfactory wrap up regarding the island's secrets so instead gave us as pseudo-Jacob's Ladder ending. No thanks.

    11. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

      SPOILERS (of course)

      Well you're not going to get a complete explanation of the island. What has been explained is that somehow it's the seat of all life on earth. It's something akin to the garden of eden.

      Walt: Walt is "special". There's not much more to it than that. Lots of people in the series are special somehow.

      Faraday & Desmond: I'm not sure how much of it is an unexplained loose-end. Both Faraday and Desmond had become somewhat unstuck in time, Desmond due to the hatch blowing up, and Faraday as a result of his experiments. We never get a full backstory on Faraday and we're never shown events from his point of view, but it's possible that somehow he's experiencing things out of order. Otherwise, it's just a minor snafu on the writer's part.

      "the properties of the multiverses": There were no multiverses. The "universe" where they didn't crash on the island never happened. It was all a sort of purgatory that was taking place long after the rest of the events of the show. It took place after Kate and Sawyer and the rest escapes the island, after Hurley became "the chosen one" or whatever. Everyone is dead. The rest of the events of the show are real, and take place in a single timeline.

      "why the black cloud killed who it did and left others": The smoke monster was blocked from killing any of the "candidates" by Jacob. We don't know exactly how Jacob's magic worked, but that's why the smoke monster couldn't kill Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, etc. Anyone else he let live was incidental.

    12. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by hkmwbz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My issue with Lost is that the entire series was sold with the premise of 'theres a mystery, watch to find out what it is'. Its built up and built up, so many things are hyped and then discarded, and when we get to the final episode ... nothing.

      They did answer a lot of the mysteries, though. It's just that they raised new and sometimes bigger mysteries, and those were left open.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    13. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Intentionally writing story lines which only give the appearance of order but which are actually just random shit happening is smart? I'll freely admit, it was funny when I saw it the first time in Twin Peaks ... but I just can't stomach DEEP any more. It's not smart, it's lazy at best and pandering to the lowest common denominator at worst.

    14. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Dishevel · · Score: 3, Funny

      How can you be worrying about starving children in Africa when earth is going to MELT!?

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    15. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by penguin_dance · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One of the biggest mysteries last night was where did they suddenly find a roll of duct tape to fix the plane?

      --
      If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
    16. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by GooberToo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      J.J. Abrams has a consistent formula which rarely seems to fail from a commercial perspective. From an artistic perspective, it always seems to fall flat on its face leaving everyone completely unsatisfied and confused, like a recent ex-virgin wondering about what the hell just happened.

      Formula:
      1. Create an excellent concept.
      2. Create interesting and varied characters. Usually horridly and obviously flawed.
      3. Create an ever growing mystery for the audience; to wit you're sure the character flaws can feed.
      4. Continue to build a mystery such that nothing makes logical sense, characters don't feed or develop in any meaningful way. Characters follow no logic and betray their character at every turn. Hopefully the audience will believe this has to do with the ever building mystery rather than a failing of the Abrams. Realistically, it has more to do with the fact there was never a real plan, story arc, or long term development by Abrams.
      5. End the story in a completely illogical manner such that it punishes the audience for trusting Abrams beyond the beginning of step four; whereby it becomes very obviously not only is Abrams unable to deliver any substance, its plainly beyond his ability to do so.
      6. People walk around scratching head wondering what the fuck just happened while trying to explore their own meaning in a story which never had any meaning from the beginning. All personal meaning is strictly coincidental as Abrams never delivered anything.

      So for those who found meaning in Abram's effort, congrats! You found more than was ever provided, intended, or eluded. In short, it means you're more creative than Abrams. And if you didn't find meaning, congrats! You've been bitten yet again by Abrams' epic ability to fail at story telling. Even worse, his epic ability to destroy completely awesome story ideas.

      Like nuclear war, the only way to win is to not play - anything in which Abrams participates.

    17. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Enderandrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is *very* simple actually. And those answers came a few episodes early.

      The heart of the island is filled with energy. It is the same energy that fuels life. Jacob guarded that energy and used it to protect candidates so they didn't age, and healed miraculously. As a punishment for someone trying to steal that energy, they would be turned into the "smoke monster", which could only wear the faces of dead bodies on the island.

      Go back and watch the pilot. The show was always an allegory about good and evil. The island was split time and time again into two groups of conflict, and those conflicts were smaller facets of a larger conflict.

      Did you watch Star Wars and complain that the Force was never explained?

      The only reason people expect more from Lost is because when there was a reveal, it was so rewarding. It showed how deep the show was, how well thought it was, and how much meaning there laid in so many aspects of the story. People complain that they didn't get more of that instead of celebrating on how many great moments of revelation there were.

      Watch JJ Abram's "Alias" some time. The show was predicated on revealing twists, but that show really was made up as they went along and became ludicrous very quick. Instead of having twists for the sake of twists, Lost was amazingly consistent while still surprising.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    18. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Anonymous+Psychopath · · Score: 3, Funny

      I've only seen half of one Lost episode in my life, and I thank you for confirming my determination that it would have been an utter waste of life to watch.

      And that differs from your dedication to commenting on a topic to which you have said you have no interest how exactly?

      The two are only equivalent if he posts on this topic for five more years, annoying his friends the entire time.

      --

      Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

    19. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by J-1000 · · Score: 4, Funny

      So the 'sideways' timeline could have been thousands of our timeline years since Hurley could have been guardian for the island for who know's how long before he joined the group at the church.

      And he still didn't lose any weight!

    20. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In the toolbox that I would imagine (hope) would be standard issue for ALL planes for fixing minor issues in-flight -- cushion gets torn? Tape it and let the maintenance guys fix or replace it when the plane's back on the ground. Sign on the bathroom falls down? Tape it. Some button or knob (ideally not inside the cockpit) that shouldn't move does? Tape it.

      Even if it wasn't part of some standard issue toolbox, I imagine Lapidus would have stashed some extra tools on the plane before taking off -- after all, he knows (hopes) they're going to get to the island and that it might not be the best of landings.

      I don't know where the quote "If it shouldn't move but does, duct tape. If it doesn't move but should, WD-40." but it seems appropriate here. [After watching the MythBusters, I think that phrase should have a third sentence -- "If it shouldn't exist but does, C4."]

    21. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Culture20 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The whole point of leaving the Island as a mystery is to point out how unimportant the Island is. The show was about the main characters. The Island was a place, or at best, a series of events drawing the main characters together. Do we know the mysterious lives of all the background characters? No. Why should we care more about an inanimate object (no matter how cool)?

    22. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Omestes · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I kind of like that kind of story, but then again I think Twin Peaks was the best show that was ever on T.V. I like stories that don't wrap up neatly in the end, and give you a precise answer to all the mysteries. I feel that the more surreal things are, the more they mirror life. There is no definite answers in life, there is mostly mystery, ad hoc explanations, and various flavors of hypothesis that exist to be endlessly mulled.

      That is how Hollywood killed every movie based on a Philip Dick story; by wrapping it all up, and telling the viewer the proper interpretation of events, where in the story your generally left pondering what exactly was real, and what exactly was in the protagonists head.

      The mystery keeps it interesting long after the show or book ends. It makes it a bit more engaging.

      I view lost like a television version of the book House of Leaves. Except with more religious overtones.

      Though to be honest, I feared it devolving into a religious allegory early in the first season.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    23. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by doggo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Hey, no fair! You Lost writers are not allowed to comment. You had years to make sense, and you didn't. No do-overs.

      But seriously...

      "Yes like any good book, questions were left unanswered." BZZZZT!!!

      No, actually, a good book tells a coherent story.

    24. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by tophermeyer · · Score: 4, Funny

      One of the biggest mysteries last night was where did they suddenly find a roll of duct tape to fix the plane?

      Ductus ex Machina?

    25. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by noname101 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, you do have the right to get from it what you will but I am not sure why you down play the significance of the island. I see it as more of a Pandora's box, or for some, the containment vessel in Ghost Busters. For Smoky to leave the light had to be put out, if the light is put out the island sinks and is no longer the cork in the bottle. I really believe that everything that Jacob said this season was true. I am trying to think back to anything that Jacob said that was not true and I cannot think of anything. Smokey was a hurt little boy that only wanted to get away from home, some of us can feel his pain. It was a battle that started when he was young and became a crusade. I do not think that he thought it would destroy the world, he simply had been trying to get off the island for so long that is all he knew. It was the same way that Jack was sure calling the boat was a good thing, we know how that turned out.

    26. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by CaseM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's a cop-out and you know it. Initially the writers had no idea how successful Lost may or may not be. They introduced ideas even in the pilot which are still unexplained. For God's sake, why did the smoke monster kill anyone (like the pilot of Oceanic 815)? Why did the smoke monster kill everyone in the temple in Season 6? The writers were reaching. This whole "it's all about the characters" nonsense is just fanboy apologetics.

    27. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Enderandrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The mysteries were important.

      Both the larger mythology and the individual character stories were equally important.

      Some of the details however begin to descend into minutia.

      For instance, if you can't enjoy the show because you don't understand how the Dharma food drops continued (even though there is an answer for that) then you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    28. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2

      Thats nice and smug for you but a pretty rude way to come into the conversation.

      I didn't watch it either, I think at the time because it was opposite of something else I was watching and just never started to watch it.

      I'm going to assume that everyone who has a viewpoint opposite of yours, mine included, won the argument because you come across as a douche.

    29. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by wfolta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On the other hand, is there any explanation that could ever be awesome enough? Even if they had it all intricately planned out ahead of time, explaining things *always* makes them seem rather ordinary. "Who is Jacob?" is a great mystery. Then you get the explanation, "Oh, he's just some kind of a weird mystical all-knowing protector of the island, and therefore protector of the entire world." Now that's not ordinary at all, but once you know it, it's not interesting either.

      Very true. For example, the Silmarillion could never be as interesting as The Lord of the Rings, because it spelled out the back story that was only hinted at in LotR.

      BUT, you can resolve things LotR-style. Imagine if you saw Frodo sailing away at the end of the movie and you did not know about the knife wound he received, you did not know exactly what that stupid ring did or why it was important, you knew nothing about who survived the war... It's all about the Fellowship bonding and out of that group Frodo is special enough to take a boat off of Middle Earth with Gandalf. That's what Lost did last night.

      The secret is to let the explanation fade with distance: They showed us a lot about Jacob and MiB, give us a couple more glimpses of why their "mother" was so murderous, and then a quick glimpse of her predecessor (and a hint at how it all started), and a quick glimpse of Hurley's successor. The Guardianship fades into the mists of time, but it IS anchored there: it is real and continuous and it matters (to the planet and all its current and future inhabitants).

      Similarly, give us a glimpse into the special people (Desmond, Walt, Faraday and his mom) and some of their differences. Maybe Faraday was special because of his experiments, his mom, though, might've been special by birth and we could see a glimpse that there had been others like her who "watched" (though that's not the proper word) time, but she had failed her duty because she killed her own son and thus wanted to lock people in to Purgatory for eternity while she experiended being his mother. Why not drop a hint that it is these mysterious people who guided the first Guardian to the island, and it was they who intertwined people's lives pre-Island and the Guardian could only see who WOULD come to the island, and could not actually call anyone. Leave loose ends, but have them fade into the mists of time and space.

      You don't have to explain the special people. They simply operate outside of the normal rules of time and space and have some unexplained tie to the heart of the island. They hover at the margins, doing work that may have a higher purpose than the island or this planet -- who knows -- while the Guardian is a non-special person who sets rules (though imply that the some of the special people have veto power) and actively manages the island. Explain this Jacob who we've longed to know about since his name was first mentioned, but leave some mystery as to his role in the BIG picture.

      Similarly, they made a point of having everyone on the island be totally confused and wrong most of the time. Desmond thought he'd see his wife when he went down into the heart. Jack thought he was a weapon. MiB thought he'd destroy the island and he (MiB) could then escape, though he did not apparently understand it would de-smokify him. So they need to SHOW us a few things so that we KNOW they're true, not just hear them from confused people (including the non-omniscient Jacob). When the heart of the island went out, we could have seen people start to get nosebleeds, animals dying, perhaps flash to San Francisco and see an earthquake. Let us know that the island's heart IS important, and it's not a matter of Jacob being confused in this, as he was in other things.

      As it is, the island seems absolutely unimportant. Recorking it was simply the thing that Jack needed to do to get full marks on his test, and it's not clear if anything would have happened other than the island sinking due to earthquake if he had not recapped it.

    30. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Gabrosin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The smoke monster had one consistent motivation: eliminate anyone it couldn't use.

      For the vast majority of the show, the smoke monster was looking for one thing: a way to eliminate Jacob. It knows it can't harm Jacob directly; it has to convince someone else to do it. It tries with Richard, but Jacob survives and converts Richard to his side. So it bides its time. It tries to find someone susceptible to corruption, someone it can warp into a threat to Jacob.

      Jacob, through Richard, maintains a group of followers on the island (the Others). They behave in much the same way that Jacob's "mother" did: be prepared to eliminate anyone on the island who gets too close to discovering its secret. When the Man in Black discovered "the source" (with the help of the other island denizens), his "mother" eliminated them. When the Dharma initiative was running their experiments, Ben (effectively an Other at that point) eliminated them. Jacob's group protected the island by eliminating anyone who might have posed a threat to the source, and replenishing its numbers from any new groups that arrive. To do this, it used its pipeline to the main world to quickly and easily research each new arrival, as well as observation from its "agents" implanted with each group. The group decided who could be assimilated and who could be ignored. What criteria it used is a mystery, but not an important one to solve.

      The smoke monster has a similar MO: examine each new arrival to the island, looking for its own "candidate": someone who can be tricked into killing Jacob. It's been working on warping Ben for a long time now, but it needs as many backup plans as it can get. It probably kills the pilot to eliminate any chance of the pilot being able to signal for help using the plane's radio equipment. Maybe this is an unnecessary precaution, but wrecking the plane's instrumentation and killing its pilot is the sort of thing the smoke monster would do in order to keep the new arrivals trapped.

      Note the scene just before the finale, where the smoke monster (as Locke) cuts the throat of Widmore's assistant and justifies it by saying "You told her not to talk to me, so she was of no use to me any more". That's its motivation for everything it does. Once a person has outlived its usefulness, it can be discarded or eliminated. It spared Ben, it spared Locke, it was prevented from killing the candidates by Jacob's touch... but it killed Eko after evaluating that he was of absolutely no use to it. The people in the temple, Jacob's followers, were unimportant to whether it could remain on the island... but they might have been able to explain things to the candidates, and protect them within the temple. So they were eliminated. While Jacob lived, eliminating them would only decrease the pool of potential candidates (for eliminating Jacob); with Jacob dead, they were useless, possibly dangerous to its plans, and so they were killed.

      The smoke monster's motivations, now that they're revealed, are far more consistent than Jacob's. If Jacob knew that Ben was getting ready to turn on him, why not pacify him? Why antagonize him? The only answer the writers hint at is that Jacob has grown weary of being the island's protector, like his "mother" before him. She knew that eliminating the island's inhabitants would provoke the Man in Black to kill her; she was ready to pass on the defender role to Jacob. Similarly, Jacob may have been ready to pass on the defender role to someone else, so he allows Ben to kill him, even provokes it. It's an explanation, but perhaps a thin one... for someone in charge of defending the island, he left an awful lot to chance by not setting up the new protector before letting himself get killed.

    31. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by dhammond · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's not really fair. Twin Peaks made A LOT more sense.

    32. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by lennier · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Indeed. It's interesting that that was pretty much Russell T Davies' approach to Doctor Who plots, especially in the final season: just crank the sturm und drang into overdrive without too much care for logical sense.

      The Master isn't a big enough villain? Bring on the Timelords! The End of Time ITSELF! only it isn't but never mind. Louder! Bigger! Faster! More! Then reset it all and move on.

      So: one drop of Red Matter kills a planet? Great, that's intense! But for the finale we need MORE intensity! So use the whole lot! Don't care about the size of the explosion or logical sense. Just more, more, more of everything but the heroes escape because they're heroes.

      It's a consistent artistic philosophy, in the sense of not caring about consistency at all, but a little goes a very long way. I'm intrigued though why two major 2000s pop-culture writers both adopted the same stance at the same time. Something about our cultural zeitgeist? A sort of deliberate postmodern/'slipstream' aesthetic, deliberately discarding reason in favour of bigness?

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    33. Re:Was Not Impressed at All by Pollardito · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you're making this out to be more sinister than it is. I will totally agree that the problem was that the show was setup as one single enormous arc, but that there wasn't a single, consistent plan for that arc. But there was no sinister plan to not fully flesh out that story. There's just an acknowledgement that a TV show has to have flexibility to allow for fickle audiences to be pulled along with more of what they seem to have liked, to allow for fickle TV executives that might cancel the show at any point, and to allow for fickle actors that might leave or reduce their availability by taking another job at any point (because let's be honest, the more successful your story is the more offers they're getting and the more at risk they face of typecast by staying). All that flexibility made it possible to make the TV show, but it also made having a single completely concrete story arc impossible.

      While I totally agree that the end result was unsatisfactory, any novel would be unsatisfactory if the author was writing the entire time knowing that he may run out of pages or his characters might suddenly be unavailable at any time. While they certainly could have done better, they also could have done a lot worse. Honestly I think they were just too ambitious, it seems like the most successful shows have always had several smaller story arcs that span a month or a season at most.

  2. Two word summary: by yoshac · · Score: 5, Informative

    Jacobs Ladder

  3. DC;TS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Don't care, too stupid

    1. Re:DC;TS by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm confused. Did you mean you, or the show?

      Oh wait, I'm confused. How prophetic of you!

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
  4. Nothing of value was Lost by Lord+Grey · · Score: 5, Funny

    The subject lines, they just write themselves.

    --
    // Beyond Here Lie Dragons
  5. It was ok. by flitty · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It was just ok. Given that Battlestar was the last finale I watched, it handled similar material in a much better way. Given the terrible ways it could have ended, it was good enough. Some people will be mad that some questions were never answered, and I would have been happier if the last episode focused more on the island than the survivors, but really, given how they didn't have an ending written when they started the series, they did a fairly good job of cleanup.

    --
    Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
    1. Re:It was ok. by Thanshin · · Score: 4, Funny

      Aren't all great stories written in reverse?

      .oN

  6. Answers by linebackn · · Score: 5, Funny

    If you want a simple, clear explanation of exactly how the series resolved, Lost Untangled will do nothing to clarify things for you.

    If you were expecting answers... you have been watching the wrong show for the last 6 years.

    1. Re:Answers by identity0 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I watched the final episode of The Prisoner, and that was so obtuse it could very well have been explaining the mysteries of Lost as well as ending The Prisoner.

      So, I have no need to watch this last episode of Lost. It was all about men in robes and dem bones, right?

      Dem bones dem bones

  7. Fucking FINALLY by Pojut · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm tired of hearing you people constantly talk about this steaming pile of ass. Lost is, quite possibly, the most overrated show that has ever been on television.

    And yes, I've watched it...a friend of mine convinced me to watch the first two seasons, and even that was almost impossible. How people obsess over this show completely eludes me.

    1. Re:Fucking FINALLY by MacGyver2210 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The show was plenty entertaining, and the plot at times interesting, but using the "Everyone's Dead" ending is a very very immature and feeble way to 'wrap things up' if you can even call it that. It is NEVER ok to use this ending, despite what M Night Shyamalan thinks. It's a total cop-out and makes people not watch your shit anymore. Why do I refuse to see the new Star Trek, despite loving all things Star Trek? Because I don't want to see how JJ Abrams fucked up the canon.

      It's like they stuck two more episodes in for the finale and were like "Oh, we forgot we have to make this the last one..." so they tagged half an hour of more flashbacks(from the island to their weird alternate death verse) to try and guide you back to terra firma. It didn't work. I still have no idea what the fuck I just watched, and I wish I could say, like you, I only watched two seasons. At least then I'd still have the suspense of "It might go somewhere".

      --
      If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
    2. Re:Fucking FINALLY by MediaCastleX · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, *clearly* we all do it just to annoy you. I mean the only reason a person enjoys what some consider bad is simply a mechanism created by writers and joined in by viewers to make life absolute hell for everyone who is a critic! =D

  8. Re:Mumbo Jumbo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Mumbo perhaps, Jumbo perhaps not.

  9. My take by garcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am not much of a TV watcher but a coworker loaned me the DVDs to watch on the bus during my commute in the Fall of 2008 and I kept up with the show ever since. For the first two seasons I was riveted. The cliffhangers, the mystery, etc, etc, etc. With the first half of Season 3 the show started to fall apart. They came back with a clear vision in the second half, supposedly, but I never saw it materialize.

    Yesterday I sat down with my wife (who only started watching it in Season 5) and we watched as nothing in the final episode answered any questions. No, the fucking light at the center of the island didn't tell us shit and that stupid fucking ending with some sort of allusion to the afterlife was absolutely stupid. People had been suspecting that all along and knowing that many people did you would have thought the writers, being paid as much as they were, would have come up with something more shocking than that--but they didn't.

    I am glad that I only wasted two years of my life watching that show rather than the 6 many others did. It started with a plane wreck and it ended with one. We were all duped. The least they could have done was provide everyone watching with some of that Dharma beer in rusty cans to help ease the pain.

    1. Re:My take by Thanshin · · Score: 2, Funny

      a coworker loaned me the DVDs to watch on the bus during my commute in the Fall of 2008 [...]
      I am glad that I only wasted two years of my life watching that show.

      Wow! That's a freaking long commute.

      You should try to find a job in your own continent.

  10. Re:No. by ig88b · · Score: 2, Informative

    Can we all agree that most t.v. just sucks big sweaty donkey balls?

    Most TV? Certainly. But there are the occasional gems that make it worthwhile. A few examples of current, excellent shows include Better Off Ted (sadly canceled), Dexter, and Gravity (weird show on Starz about a suicide group).

    That's just a drop in the bucket. There are plenty of excellent shows if you know how to filter out the noise.

  11. Idiotic by eln · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I remember the producers of Lost saying at some point either during or at the end of the first season that the mysteries of the island would all end up being explainable scientifically. Not necessarily pure science, but at least the sort of semi-plausible science-like stuff most sci-fi is built on. For most of the first two or three seasons they were flailing around, but for the most part it still seemed there could be a plausible explanation for everything. The introduction of Faraday and all of his scientific mumbo jumbo lent credence to that idea.

    Then, over the past two seasons, the show took a sharp turn into religious territory and it became increasingly obvious they were going to take the easy way out and make it all into some ridiculous religious/spiritual allegory of some kind, albeit one so confused that no one would ever be able to make any real sense out of it. It reminded me of the Matrix, where the first movie was more sci-fi and the second and third were all a bunch of confused pseudo-religious nonsense.

    I was primarily disappointed with their complete abandonment of any attempt to explain anything scientifically, and instead lean on a literal Deus Ex Machina by making the whole thing into a spiritual "God (or some other spiritual entity) did it". That sort of thing has been done to death. Hell, Battlestar Galactica was explicitly a religious allegory from the very beginning, and even it explained more stuff pseudo-scientifically than Lost did. Regardless of what they may say now, I think the Lost creators started out with a show that would have been much more scientifically based, but ended up having to extend it beyond what they thought they would. After wandering in the wilderness for much of seasons 2 through 4, they were backed into a corner and took the easy way out by waving the magic religion wand to "explain" everything away.

    1. Re:Idiotic by bunratty · · Score: 2, Informative

      I remember them saying distinctly that they would not give a scientific explanation. They gave the example of the horrible midicholians explanation in the Star Wars prequels as to why such explanations are always disappointing. They said they like the Harry Potter series where it's never explained why some people are born witches or wizards. They just are.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    2. Re:Idiotic by AntiDragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It reminded me of the Matrix, where the first movie was more sci-fi and the second and third were all a bunch of confused pseudo-religious nonsense.

      Ahh, sorry - you've lost me. There was only ever one Matrix movie.

      --
      "...So I hung back and lurked. For 18 months. Can't beat a good old-fashioned lurking."
  12. Meandering story not going anywhere by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I gave up on "lost", it seemed to be a meandering plot with hints but no resolutions. I am about to give up on "flash forward" for the same reason.

    1. Re:Meandering story not going anywhere by garcia · · Score: 5, Funny

      I am about to give up on "flash forward" for the same reason.

      You're not going to have a choice as the show was canceled last week.

    2. Re:Meandering story not going anywhere by delinear · · Score: 2, Funny

      I am about to give up on "flash forward" for the same reason.

      You're not going to have a choice as the show was canceled last week.

      How did they not see that one coming?</horrible-pun>

  13. Written by Wiki by linzeal · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From what I understand they had their own internal Wiki which became where they hashed out a lot of the mythos. That is no way to write a narrative that you can tie together into coherent story arc.

  14. Re:Mumbo Jumbo by gmurray · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The writing in the earlier seasons seemed to have much more intellectual integrity. Not sure what changed. Did someone leave the show or something? Some auditor or other writer?

  15. Re:Religious Viewers= $ by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 4, Funny

    Me, too. Another show that infurated me was I Dream of Jeannie. I mean, under the laws of physics and rational human reason, there's just *no way* that Barbara Eden could fit into that tiny little bottle. The only explanation possible was supernatural mumbo jumbo, which was an insult to Larry Hagman and the rest of the scientific community at NASA.

  16. So, my only question regarding Lost is by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What the hell was that black smoke thing in the first series? You didn't see it at all through two or three, and I got so bored by then that I gave up.

    So, black smoke monster; What was it?

    --
    Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    1. Re:So, my only question regarding Lost is by Guysmiley777 · · Score: 5, Funny

      So, black smoke monster; What was it?

      The physical manifestation of the writer's lack of talent?

      --
      Coding with assembly is like playing with Legos. Coding an application in assembly is like building a car with Legos.
    2. Re:So, my only question regarding Lost is by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But the entire premise of Starwars is not based around 'The Mystery Of How Luke Moves The Lightsaber With The Force', and the concept of 'The Force' is explained early on - now, if we were just introduced to the fact that Luke can move stuff without touching it, but were never given a token explanation, then your argument would hold water.

      The 'Black Smoke' isn't even given a token explanation, just a 'oh look, heres how hes created - by the magical light', which introduced yet another 'mystery' isntead of answering anything.

    3. Re:So, my only question regarding Lost is by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wouldn't it be bigger?

  17. Re:Religious Viewers= $ by kellyb9 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't understand how being an athiest would deter you from watching a work of fiction. Clearly the imagery suggested in the show had nothing to do with a particular type of religion that exists. Also, nothing about this series would imply that there was going to be a rational ending to this show. I don't ever recall a scientific or rational explanation to anything.

  18. Not impressed, but here's my take by heckler95 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think the most revealing part was during the closing credits when they showed the wreckage on the beach with no people. My interpretation is that the entire series existed entirely in Jack's mind as the plane crashed and all passengers died on impact. Similar to the common cliche of one's "life flashing before their eyes" during a near-death experience, but in this case the result was actual death.

    Many people who have a near-death experience describe comfort and moving toward a white light. This has been explained by science as the brain flooding itself with dopamine and other pleasure chemicals because it knows that it is dying and might as well go out feeling good. I think the series was an interpretation of that phenomenon - realizing that he had but seconds to live, Jack's brain created this vivid melodrama based on the wishful thinking that he'd actually survive the crash. The islands electromagnetic properties explain the crash, and the hope of reversing the crash and sending his life on a more fulfilling path (flash-sideways with Jack finding love, having a son, etc.) provides comfort.

    With that being said, I think the writers took the easy way out and I'm quite disappointed having invested a significant amount of time in the series. I'm sure there will be plenty of post-game analysis and people will find tons of symbolism that was intended and even more that wasn't, so at least the discussion and speculation may fill my need for closure.

  19. Re:Should I watch it? by eln · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have never seen a single episode, it the whole series worth watching, now that it is over?

    In a word, no. The show barely made sense watching it over the past 6 years as it was released. We continually got some hints that things might make sense eventually, but they never did. Inconsistencies from vaguely remembered episodes of 2 or 3 years ago kept popping up and giving this little feeling in the back of one's mind that the writers had no idea what they were doing. I suspect if you watched it all back to back it would make even less sense because the inconsistencies and utter nonsense would be that much more obvious.

    I watched it from beginning to end, but I have absolutely no desire to watch it again, and I certainly won't be wasting money on the DVDs.

  20. Don't understand the hate by bunratty · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't understand why other Lost fans haven't liked the last season of the show. The big questions were answered, but they seem not to like the answers provided. I've been a fan since the beginning, and I thought the end was beautiful.

    The one part that left me wondering was the shot of the fuselage in the credits. The best explanation I read was that it's the final remains of the 815 crash after all the Losties died. It's the mystery that other people brought to the island in the future will wonder about, like we wondered about the hatch, the statue, Henry Gale's balloon, and so on.

    --
    What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    1. Re:Don't understand the hate by Scrameustache · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As I said, you do not like the answers provided. You can complain that the show didn't provide the answers you wanted and remain miserable, or accept them for what they are and be at peace. It's your choice, dude. You can come into the church whenever you're ready. I forgive you.

      I'm not miserable, I was expecting them to wave their hands at me, I learned my lesson with Galactica.

      But you're right, I don't like the answers provided, since the answers were: "just because" and "because I said so".

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

  21. Re:5 word summary by bunratty · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It wasn't all a dream. After the Losties died (after the very real events on and off the island), they went to purgatory, aka the flashsideways. Then, realizing that they were holding on to their fantasy about what life would have been like without the island, they accepted what happened to them and were set free.

    --
    What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
  22. Living in a hatch? by pedantic+bore · · Score: 4, Funny

    Never heard of such a thing, but sounds appealing. Anyone know where I can get one?

    --
    Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
  23. Sounds like X-files and Twin Peaks by baxissimo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Both The X-Files and Twin Peaks used this formula of just throwing more and more weird riddles and sci-fi mysteries at the viewer with answers always seemingly to come in just a few more episodes. I never saw Lost, but it sounds like a repeat of that. The Matrix series was a condensed movie version of this phenomenon. I wish writers would just come up with a story that has an ending and tell it. Joss Whedon seems to be the only TV writer who can actually manage to do that.

  24. Easy answer. by Darth_brooks · · Score: 2, Funny

    Lost is merely the logical continuation of the "Gilligan's Island / Seven deadly sins" theory. I mean, let's look at the evidence:

    -Purgatory: The Island. (Duh.)
    -The fat lovable guy ends up in charge.
    -Since Gilligan is of course Satan, and the island's personification of evil is the "magic smoke", and we all know that Bob Denver, aka Gilligan, was a fan of, ahem, 'Magic Smoke' himself, we can draw the logical conclusion that The Smoke Monster is the spirit of Gilligan himself, keeping people on the island permanently....

    Feel free to continue the argument ad nasuem.

    --
    There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
  25. Re:No. by nelsonal · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Breaking Bad.

    --
    Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  26. Re:Religious Viewers= $ by gshegosh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    generic "mysticism"**

    How is it generic, the guy who opened the door for them was "Christian Shepard", for fuck's sake!

  27. Re:What about for those who haven't seen it? by hibiki_r · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Watch season one, and then pretend that it was canceled. Curse the network executives for doing so.

    There you go, you got a better Lost experience than most of us who gave up on it later. Watching the rest is like volunteering to watch your neighbor's father as Alzheimer makes him lose his mind, and become a husk of himself.

  28. This was the ONLY episode I watched by HockeyPuck · · Score: 4, Funny

    I can safely say the only episode I've ever watched, and will watch was last night's finale.

    My take...

    They all died in the crash,
    The island was purgatory.

    Removing the rock from the island was akin to "pulling the plug" on the series and would send them to hell and cancel all hopes of future syndication.

    The multi-religion church at the end was symbolizing a positive afterlife which we all know means eternal life in syndication.

    Personally, I'm just glad this shit is over. Now we can get back to watching reality TV, b/c using actors is overrated.

  29. Do you want more religion with your scifi? by Tei · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For some reason USA is soo obsesed with religion, that has to add a (final) religion layer to everything. What could look fun in politics (with a president thanking Cron or Thor or Kratos or other god ), is really out-of-character in science-fiction.

    My particular pet theory is that a good % of the USA residents have supernatural feelings. Since is something that is shared by a soo big group of people, summining a supernatural concept in a vague way, can get you credits. Something like fanservice, but for a broad number of people. Of course, It also excluse these withouth supernatural feelings, but that seems a minor-minority even on science-fiction (?) and fantasy.

    I make me angry to have supernatural entities like ESPers in Star Trek, or in Silverberg books, but I have learned to live with it. If you want to read the production from USA, you have to tolerate some intense level of supernatural feelings. At least is somewhat vague... is not like Iran, that probably have a urgency real about how you must think and what you have to wear.

    --

    -Woof woof woof!

    1. Re:Do you want more religion with your scifi? by boxwood · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A good % of the *human race* has "supernatural feelings"

      People like to see supernatural stuff in fiction because it makes thinks interesting.

      ESP makes you angry but warp engines and teleporters don't? Warp engines and teleporters aren't possible in our understanding of science, so they could be considered supernatural. There is no proof of aliens existing, so put them in the supernatural category too.

      Some people like stories about aliens, some people like stories about ESP.

  30. Babylon 5 / Firefly / Star Blazers by tekrat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seems to me that a series is *so* much better when the writers KNOW what the ending will be BEFORE the series airs. This way, the entire series can work towards the ending, with the result being much more satisfying.

    The subject above lists three series I felt were fucking epic, because the ending matched what the series was all about from the very first episode. It wasn't just "make shit up as you go along", and then after you've run out of material stringing your audience along for as long as you can, write up some mish-mash of an ending that really doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the series.

    The Star Force got the Cosmo DNA and got back to Earth, The Alliance accidentally created the Reavers by trying to make paradise, and Sheridan kicked some Shadow ass (and paid the ultimate price, twice!).

    I've never watched LOST, but I knew from the begining they had no plan to really end the series, so, I never bothered to even try to get into it. I'm sorry if you did. Next time, choose more wisely.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:Babylon 5 / Firefly / Star Blazers by jollyreaper · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It seems to me that a series is *so* much better when the writers KNOW what the ending will be BEFORE the series airs. This way, the entire series can work towards the ending, with the result being much more satisfying.

      The best part about B5 is how JMS could set up things that would pay off years later. One of my favorite bits was Vir's answer to Morden about what he wanted. Then years later, looking up at that head on the pike and waving. Classic!

      A good example of crappy syndication writing that I don't really blame on JMS was what happened with Garibaldi and Bester. We had a perfect ending in season 4 with Bester talking to Sheridan and realizing he was up shit creek. Of course, with Season 5 greenlit, JMS had to retract that resolution and make it all according to Bester's plan. Understandable, JMS didn't know he'd get a 5th season. But that's a rare, rare shortcoming in B5 and utterly common in every other form of long-running fiction.

      In a mystery it is absolutely essential for the writer to know who did it, how, and why. The trick is laying out the clues in such a way that the reader could have worked it out on his own the whole time, doesn't figure it out until the revelation, and then kicks himself in retrospect because he realizes he had every clue he needed in those earlier chapters. And you're exactly right, you have to work backwards from that conclusion to lay the groundwork. There's always room for new ideas and improvisation but there's absolutely no room for crap like the BSG Final Five wankery.

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    2. Re:Babylon 5 / Firefly / Star Blazers by Late+Adopter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It seems to me that a series is *so* much better when the writers KNOW what the ending will be BEFORE the series airs.

      Absolutely, but you can't do that on television. You have no idea how many seasons you'll get to run for, so the best thing to do is create some short term arcs, some longer ones, and weave what you can. If you get popular, make up more stuff to tie in with the longer-term arcs.

      What we really need is a return to the miniseries. Even a 1-season television show, that knew in advance it was only 20 eps (or however many) long, would be able to plan out a complete and interesting story.

  31. Don't waste your time by Sloppy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No. The show is an empty promise, leading people on without any plan to resolve it. If you watch the first 3 seasons, you'll see weird things that you assume get explained later, but it never happens, and then in the 4th-6th seasons they're clearly just making stuff up as they go, and hoping that you'll forget prior mysteries. The show is all setup and every time you think it has gotten to Act 2 or even Act 3, the writers lose interest in the plot and decide you're in Act 1 again.

    Lost is bad.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  32. Re:Religious Viewers= $ by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 2, Informative

    I mean, under the laws of physics and rational human reason, there's just *no way* that Barbara Eden could fit into that tiny little bottle.

    The term we're looking for here is Willing Suspension of Disbelief, which itself is quite dependant on the fact that while the author's work may not be realistic, it is at least internally consistent.

    However, if you break this internal consistency, turning your work into a mashed goop of misdirected literary intent, convoluted cross reference, stretched idioms, and outright lameness, you end up with a Wall Banger. It's my understanding that this is precisely what happened to Lost. It also happened to BSG. It will basically happen to any story arc centric show in which the writers make shit up as they go along. For some reason, TV producers seem to think this is a good idea. Personally, I would have fired the writers and cancelled Lost in pre-production the moment I found out the writers did not have even a basic narrative plan from day one.

    An example of a show this didn't happen to was Babylon 5. Apparently the writer had a good outline of the entire series mapped out before any shooting began. That's how you tell a long story in television, or anywhere else for that matter. This is pretty basic stuff, usually figured out by most people at around age six when their favourite make believe fairy tale world of swords and sorcery is finally ruined by someones suggestion that the party destroy the orbiting space dreadnought by sabotaging its reactor core. The Lost writers need to take a basic course in how to a) write and b) how to be a GM.

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
  33. the only thing worse than a lost fan by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    are those who have to show up in a thread about lost and bash the show

    i never got the show, but obsession with the show is completely harmless. i don't hold it against anyone

    what bother me is people who don't like the show... but have to come in and shit all over someone else's harmless enjoyments

    we all have our quirky likes and dislikes that are easy to ridicule or put down. so what? most socially well-adjusted folk don't have an irrational need to pick on others. if you do have such a need, this reveals nothing about lost, it reveals something about yourself: a poverty of character and some sort of unresolved self-hatred and self-loathing. lose your pathetic need to go out of your way to menace other people's harmless hobbies

    oh who am i kidding... this is the internet. mindless negativity seems like that's what the internet was created for

    carry on then, aggressively ultranegative losers. the internet is yours, unfortunately

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:the only thing worse than a lost fan by Damek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Meh. We all had to listen to Lost fans rave on about the show for six years. Yawnorama. Critics may be annoying, but it'd be worse to have a never-ending circle-jerk over the show.

  34. Mod parent way up - "succumbed to its own success" by Animaether · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Parent is absolutely right. Shows like these succumb to their own success.

    This is the problem that faced Lost from season 2 onward. It was never -meant- to be as many seasons long as it ended up being. But when you get such high ratings, the stations pretty much force you to produce more content (read:filler), dragging the story on and on, and eventually you end up having so much going on in the show, that the ending you had envisioned by the time you wrote the pilot, that the ending will no longer work and you've got just a few shows (if being abruptly canceled. Hi, Heroes) to try and tie things up - which is, invariably, a mess.
    ( Let's see how Heroes fares with their cancellation. )

    Sadly, hardly any station would allow you to specify in the contract that the show will be N seasons or episodes long with key plot elements from the pilot to the finale, with little room in other (filler) episodes for the station managers to get their egotripping time. The only way to get -that- is with a miniseries.. 2-4 episodes ..which aren't well-suited for shows designed as a series.

    I stopped watching mid-way through season 3.. don't bother telling me it gets better in season 4; after reading the short summary in the top post here, it could be the most brilliant made-for-TV work of our generation.. and I still wouldn't care to see it.

  35. Lazy, lazy writing by positronica · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does any one else think that the writers were making up even the finale as they went along? Personally, I think the explanation of the flash sideways = limbo was something they tacked on at the very last minute. In fact, if you re-examine the last season, I think it’s clear that the flash sideways was originally intended to be a true parallel reality of sorts.

    1. A submerged/sunken version of the island was shown in the flash sideways world.
    2. Kima, a murderer that everyone on the island hated, was present in the flash sideways world.
    3. In the beginning on the flash sideways, it was implied that it took something like a near-death-experience to catch glimpses of the other timeline. By the end though, apparently any strong emotion was enough.
    4. Faraday in the flash sideways specifically thought that the flash sideways was the result of something they had done with a nuclear bomb.
    5. When Widmore put Desmond in the magnet shack, the impression was given that Desmond was able to jump between both realities.
    6. Some of the Lostaways had pretty harsh and painful lives in the flash sideways which would seem weird for a group created dream world.
    7. When fake-Locke cut Jack's neck on the island, his neck in the flash sideways began to bleed as well.
    8. Eloise didn't want Desmond messing with things in the flash sideways.

    Now, I'm sure if you try hard enough, all of the above can be explained away, but taken as a whole, I think its obvious that the writers created the ending of the flash sideways world completely on the fly, and I would go so far as to say there's good evidence that they didn't even figure out what they were going to do until quite a ways into the finale itself. In fact, it’s entirely possible that even during the concert in the finale the writers still hadn't figured out how they were going to end things. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't figure out what to do until the point when they were trying to figure out what Jack would find inside his dad's coffin.

    P.S. And I get so sick of people defending the show by saying "Its about the characters." That's like defending a Michael Bay movie by saying "Its about the FX." A good show should be about the story, of which characters, plot, and presentation are all a part.

    1. Re:Lazy, lazy writing by Gabrosin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      6. Some of the Lostaways had pretty harsh and painful lives in the flash sideways which would seem weird for a group created dream world.

      You just nailed the whole point of the flash-sideways world. The entire point.

      The characters of the show, in some stage of their afterlife, were given the opportunity to experience what life without the island would have been like. How and why this happens is left unexplained, though it's pretty consistent with a number of religious beliefs about the nature of the afterlife and the re-examination of your own life as a part of that. It wasn't "heaven". It wasn't some fantasy world where everyone gets everything they ever want and nothing ever goes wrong. It was a place where the souls of the dead got to see what things would have been like if their one big wish ("I wish we had never crashed on that damn island") had come true.

      And you know what? No one was happy. Not one of the characters had a happier existence without the island.

      Gradually, as the characters began to encounter each other, they began to receive their awakening, remembering the events of the island, of their past lives. And with the perspective of their life in the "islandless world" of the afterlife, they came to realize that while the island was brutal and hard and in some cases deadly, it made their lives better, happier in the long run. With that enlightenment, they were ready to move on to the next stage of the afterlife, also left undefined.

      Are you willing to go along with the writers of the show and accept this as the nature of the afterlife in the Lost world? Feel free to object based on your personal beliefs; after all, no one knows the answer for certain. But for this story, that's how it works. Either that's satisfying to you, or it isn't. But it certainly didn't seem like it was all "made up at the last minute".

      Faraday remembers attempting to detonate the nuclear bomb because he's started along the path to enlightenment, to remembrance, but he only has a tiny piece of the puzzle.

      Eloise has apparently had full enlightenment, but she's not ready to move on, instead selfishly trying to keep her son around. She fears Desmond will take him away from this existence, where she doesn't have to constantly confront the reality that she sent him to his death.

      Jack's neck bleeding and Desmond's awakening corresponding with events of the real timeline is just artistic license. Jack's neck bleeding is part of his remembrance process; Desmond's remembrance occurs and he takes it upon himself to speed along the remembrance of the others by pushing them into situations with each other.

      Did they make up the whole thing at the start of season six? Quite possibly. I don't know why everyone puts such weight behind the notion of knowing every detail of the end of a story before you begin to tell it. Yes, many storytellers have gotten so far off-track that they couldn't possibly make it back on. I don't think Lost reached that point. Some details were left unexplained, but the majority were answered, even if those answers don't satisfy everyone who was looking for an entirely non-mystical explanation.

  36. You knew nothing of the sort by Xaximus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I knew from the begining they had no plan to really end the series, so, I never bothered to even try to get into it. I'm sorry if you did. Next time, choose more wisely.

    You knew nothing of the sort. We were told time and time again that there was a plan, it was all plotted out, and it would all come together and questions would be answered. We were lied to.

  37. Re:Hatch by ampathee · · Score: 3, Funny
  38. Utter disappointment. by bobdotorg · · Score: 4, Funny

    Thought for sure that in the last episode they would find Gilligan.

    --
    __ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
  39. Season 6 was a complete disapoimtment by frovingslosh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I too am very dissatisfied with LOST. Some things were just badly written. To me this goes back at least to when Charlie died, even though water physically could not have filled the room above the broken port hole, and continued through the final episode, where suddenly Jack, Kate and the rest were traveling across vast stretches of the island in hours or minutes when it had previously taken days to cover so much ground. And even things that were supposedly explained this season made no sense if you look at the whole story. The smoke monster was revealed to have caused the appearance of several deal people, including Jack's father. But we also know that smokey could not leave the island. Yet Jack also saw his dead father manifested while he was in L.A., before returning to the Island. How can a viewer even hope to figure out anything in a story when they do stuff like that?

    There were many many story holes, far too many for me to list here. But one that really needed some sort of explanation was the Darma food drop that happened shortly after the crash and saved Hurley from a much needed diet. Why was there a Darma food drop if all of Darma had been killed years earlier? Who did it, and what else are they doing? How did they even make a food drop on the Island, the mysterious nature of the Island should have made it unreachable by air, Darma had to use a sub to get there other times. But the message to viewers who were trying to actually figure out the story and make some sense of it was "screw you, the writers don't care about such things, we just want to have melodramatic deaths and church scenes with the major cast (but curiously none of the extras who also died).

    And the ending made no sense at all taken with the departure of Kate, Sawyer and Clair on the plane. How does Kate end up at the funeral dead if she managed to fly off the island alive? Why even bother to get that group to the plane, if it is meaningless if they reached it or not?

    The writers of Lost promised that they had a full story in mind when the series started, that they were not just making it up as they went along. That either wasn't true or they were some of the worst writers in history.

    Some shows are just entertainment. The viewer knows not to spend any time trying to figure out much of anything, because it would be time wasted. But Lost presented itself as something different. It claimed to have an underlying logic behind it. Viewers were encouraged to try to understand the riddles of the island. In the end the loyal viewers were betrayed.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    1. Re:Season 6 was a complete disapoimtment by Cl1mh4224rd · · Score: 2, Informative

      How does Kate end up at the funeral dead if she managed to fly off the island alive?

      Christian Shepard: "Everyone dies some time."

      They spoon-fed that one to you and you missed it.

      --
      People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
    2. Re:Season 6 was a complete disapoimtment by Gabrosin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And the ending made no sense at all taken with the departure of Kate, Sawyer and Clair on the plane. How does Kate end up at the funeral dead if she managed to fly off the island alive? Why even bother to get that group to the plane, if it is meaningless if they reached it or not?

      This one's easy; clearly you didn't "get" the ending. The "funeral scene" was outside of time and space. Call it purgatory, call it the afterlife, whatever. If we were to try to affix it to the timeline, it would be at some point possibly MILLIONS of years after the events of the island. For Kate and the rest to escape had meaning. They got off the island and continued their lives, and someday they kicked the bucket, maybe dying in their sleep at 80 years old, or getting hit by a bus, or whatever. Their lives had whatever meaning you attach to a human life. Though for all we know, the plane ran out of fuel and the six of them crashed and died. The point is, it doesn't "matter" from the perspective of the main story arc, which chronologically ends with Jack's death. And it doesn't "matter" from the perspective of the "flash-sideways" timeline, which was really a "flash-never" timeline, because those events aren't "real" in the sense that we think of "real". They were experiences of a world that doesn't exist, a place where the souls of the dead go to experience some form of existence that prepares them to "move on" into the remainder of the afterlife.

      Of course, the existence of such a place, though posited by many of the world's most prominent religions, is just as much "science fiction" as the existing of a magical electromagnetic energy source that can heal wounds, trap the souls of the deceased, turn men into smoke, and manipulate time and space when conjoined with a simple wooden wheel. Either you can accept that the show provides a mystical explanation of the events which transpired, or you can't. Those in the latter camp were doomed to be disappointed by any finale which didn't involve a physicist sitting in a room and lecturing the audience for an hour about how electromagnetism could totally allow time travel, etc. etc. Which for 99.9% of the audience would have been pretty boring.

      The writers produced 121 hours of content and 1000 mysteries. Most of the central ones either got direct answers (which may or may not have been satisfying to you) or implied answers (which may or may not be evident to you). A few were overlooked or inadequately explained (the dead father in LA is a good one, though we can posit that Jacob's protector status has conferred him with mystical powers (protective touch, anti-aging cream, etc.), and this might allow him to manipulate the lives of the candidates even while they're not on the island, perhaps by directly causing Jack to hallucinate his father).

      Was the ending perfect? No. Did we get all the answers? Not really, nor should we have.

      Was it good TV?

      Yes.

  40. Re:As someone who has not watched and is proud of by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Funny

    So you're an expert on a show that you never watched?

    You're offended by people acting smug? Look in the mirror.

    This was not X-Files or BSG. This really was the exact opposite. This was amazingly enough a well thought out show that didn't drag on too long. They had a specific arc for X number of episodes and told the story they wanted to tell in that time. They had the end planned from the beginning, and it really shows. It is amazing how consistent the show is, and how well everything paid off that they set up earlier.

    Don't try and judge something you know nothing about.

    Third stage, rationalization.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  41. The story ended when Jack's eye closed by snowwrestler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The shots of the fuselage camp on the beach were simply nice reminders from the producers and/or ABC of where the story began. In nerd-speak, they're not "canon." The story of Lost ended when Jack's eye closed.

    The best explanation I read was that it's the final remains of the 815 crash after all the Losties died. It's the mystery that other people brought to the island in the future will wonder about, like we wondered about the hatch, the statue, Henry Gale's balloon, and so on.

    If you watched the show from the beginning you'll remember that in the story, most of the fuselage camp washed away from an unusually high tide a few weeks after the crash. So it won't be around for future island inhabitants to wonder about.

    --
    Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  42. A disappointment... Only if you let it. by KingSkippus · · Score: 2, Informative

    But Lost presented itself as something different. It claimed to have an underlying logic behind it. Viewers were encouraged to try to understand the riddles of the island.

    "It claimed to have an underlying logic behind it" != "There will be answers to everything mostly spoonfed to you." Being a sci-fi nut, I'm painfully aware of unintended plot holes and inconsistencies. Every show has them. Well, every show that networks let last longer than three episodes. But just because a few things aren't explained or even (gasp!) don't make sense over the course of six years doesn't make it a terrible show. It makes the writers human and (gasp!) sometimes a little overambitious.

    If you want, you can sit there and dwell on every single nitpicky little inconsistency, and yes, if you choose to do so, the show will likely suck for you. Or you could accept that there will probably be some things that you're going to have to imagine some rational explanations for yourself and even some (gasp!) continuity goofs and enjoy the show for the things that do make sense.

    How does Kate end up at the funeral dead if she managed to fly off the island alive?

    For the record, this was one of the things that was explicitly explained. It's been explained here. If you still don't understand, that's not the writers' fault; you must have missed it somehow.

    The writers of Lost promised that they had a full story in mind when the series started, that they were not just making it up as they went along. That either wasn't true or they were some of the worst writers in history.

    ...Or they're just like almost every other writer that has ever existed. They knew how they wanted the story to start, they knew how they wanted the story to end, they had some major plot points in mind along the way, and they knew in detail some key elements of the story. The rest was just filling in the spaces, fleshing out the details. Sometimes in doing so, some minor details got escalated and merited their own development. Sometimes in doing so, some minor continuity errors were introduced.

    Any writer who tells you that they know the "full story" six years in advance is exaggerating, and not necessarily in a bad way. I'm pretty sure what I'm going to be doing at work next week, but stuff comes up and plans change, sometimes a little and sometimes a lot based on interaction with others (e.g. the writers think of something new and interesting to pursue) or outside influences (e.g. a old writer leaves and a new writer is hired).

  43. Another show ruined by focus groups? by hobb0001 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I once heard that The Unit switched attention away from the military operations of the men to the lives of the women left behind at home, as a result of focus group studies. Soon thereafter, it tanked in ratings and was canceled.

    I can't help but feel something similar must have happened to Lost somewhere within the last 6 years. When the show first started out, I got the distinct feeling that the many mysteries had meaning and rational explanations. (I believe that the writers themselves even said so.) Sure, the Dharma Initiative was a peculiar operation, but it explained some things. But this ending, I don't know... It smells as if the ending that was originally planned was scrapped because it offended too many focus groups. Perhaps the original story promoted that all mysteries are only a lack of scientific understanding? (Sufficiently advanced technology, and all that) Perhaps it promoted predestination? I don't know.

    All I can say is that with this ending, something changed somewhere. The carpet doesn't match the drapes.

  44. they had no friggin idea! a writers recap by SolarStorm · · Score: 2, Funny

    I believe they had a limited story in season 1 and it was different enough that people said "Hey, way cool!"

    Season 1: Hey lets make this island no one understands with WAY bizzare STUFF and see what the audience thinks. And oh yeah, we should do things like throw in a polar bear, some "other" people (well come up with a name later), and make the whole jungle shake to get people really scared and give them a purpose to stay together.

    Season 2: Hey it WORKED, were still employed... Now what, lets do it again. Add some more weird stuff, the audience imagination is going wild. We might even be able to skype an idea or two.

    Season 3: We should really start to try and tie some of this together. Lets do the easy ones.

    Season 4: Im starting to get dry, anybody got an idea where this going yet? Ive got so many loose threads my mind is like an angora sweater. Lets hit the web for some weird ideas.

    Season 5: Hmmm... looks like its going end next season. Lets just blow the whole thing up and then we can do what we want next season.

    Season 6: Anyone know how to tie this ball of yarn together? Hmmm... me neither. Lets do some weird dream/purgatory/lifeanddeath stuff and the audience will make some stuff up and tie it together for us. Just remember we need to sing kumbayaa at the end OK?

    And for me that about sums up the what the writers were thinking about as they drank beer in group think sessions.