Timberwolf (a.k.a. Firefox) Alpha 1 For AmigaOS

An anonymous reader writes "We're happy to announce the availability of the first alpha release of Timberwolf, the AmigaOS port of the popular Firefox browser. Timberwolf needs AmigaOS 4.1 Update 2 installed. Please read the documentation for information about usage and limitations. This is an alpha release, meaning it will have a lot of problems still, and be slower than it should be. We are releasing it as a small 'Thank you' to all those that have donated in the past to show that development is still going on. Timberwolf is available on os4depot.net. For further information and feedback, check the Timberwolf support forum on amigans.net."

Comments

...really?

[MrEricSir]

People still use Amigas? Why?

Re:...really?

[MrEricSir]

You can mark this as flamebait or whatever, but this was clearly posted here because of the novelty of porting a modern, popular program to an obsolete OS.

Which means that the obsolete OS still has users -- so I think my question has some merit.

Re:...really?

[philofaqs]

Quite. It's dead Jim, give it up. What's next? a DOS version, CPM Acorn OS. OK It's a geek thing to say we can. How many Amiga systems still work? So 3 other people download it, say WOW, and then never use it again? No doubt I'll be called a troll but really shouldn't you put your mad skillz to a better use?

Re:...really?

[Samurai Crow]

People use new PowerPC Amigas because they can. Classic Amigas are at least collectible because they were 10 years ahead of their time when they came out. They have held their value well.

PCs depreciate very quickly by comparison. The fact that every new version of the OS needs more hardware each time drives the value of used PCs through the floor.

I can understand why people think the next-generation Amigas with the PowerPC chips are not so great though. They use commodity hardware internally instead of doing original stuff like Commodore did.

Re:...really?

[cupantae]

...and Commodore64 application development continues unfalteringly.

I can understand it perfectly. It's the novelty, the nostalgia, and the challenge. If people think they'll enjoy the results, why not?

Re:...really?

[atomic777]

You must be new here...

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not AS obsolete as one might think, amiga OS 4.1 update 2 was released in 2010. Amiga OS 4 was released in 2006. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_OS_4

Re:...really?

[JWSmythe]

    Both users should be very impressed.

    And ya, it's not flamebait. Silly mods.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

but really shouldn't you put your mad skillz to a better use?

If you're gonna tell me how I shall use my time, can I tell you how you should use yours?

Re:...really?

[91degrees]

OS4.1 is a decent enough OS, and the current Amiga OS machines have fast modern CPUs.

Some people simply like Amiga OS. The way the Amiga does screens (every application on its own desktop at its own resolution) and the fast boot time and the datatypes system are all pretty nice innovations that you don't get with other platforms.

Re:...really?

[aliquis]

It's quite simple:
The most used software of todays computers for most people is the web browser.

So having a decent web-browser make AmigaOS much more usable. And for most else it already have good software. Sure it may not be the state of the art for video editing or something such but for everyday use everything is there and people enjoy their old apps I assume.

Origyn Web Browser is a Webkit based browser for MorphOS and AmigaOS4:
http://fabportnawak.free.fr/owb/
http://os4depot.net/share/network/browser/owb.lha

Someone has obviously made it possible to play Youtube videos from within iBrowse, which atleast back in the day was an Amiga browser not based on any other engine which I know of:
http://os4depot.net/share/network/browser/ib_youtube.lha
iBrowse web page:
http://www.ibrowse-dev.net/
Looks like it got a flash plugin for MorphOS:
http://www.ibrowse-dev.net/news.php?id=1169229504

And there exist a PPC-version of AWEB:
http://os4depot.net/share/network/browser/aweb.lha

Enough people use it that they have donated more than 5000 euro to get it ported to that page. I don't know if it handles the donation from the old project which was about the same think, getting a modern browser (gecko) on AmigaOS.

Re:...really?

[lena_10326]

People still use Amigas? Why?

If you have to ask, then you're not a nerd. Go away. Shooo!

Re:...really?

[Hurricane78]

Really? From all the things you chose in life, you choose THIS?
O...k...
I mean, do whatever makes you happy.
But... what the hell, dude? ;)
Shall I invite you to a party with some girls?
Or skydiving maybe?
Or racing a rally car trough South America?
Or even just writing a game.
You know... for great justice! ;)

Re:...really?

[cupantae]

I don't do any development for old systems - I was just saying I can understand the appeal of it. I have actually gone skydiving...and paragliding...and bungee jumping (but I can't drive). And that's only in 20 years on the planet. That's fun for a change, but TBH, I prefer spending more time tinkering with machines and instruments. A general interest in the Universe is a wonderful thing to have.

And it gets you laid pretty often if you can also engage in conversation ;-)

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe because some of us prefer a more lightweight and responsive OS?? Amiga OS 4.1 has come a long way since OS 3.x days.

I am writing this using firefox/timberwolf on my low end Sam 440ep 533mhz running OS4.1 u2.
The system boots in less than 10 seconds, has working composite hardware acceleration, and feels in general faster/more responsive than windows or linux running on a modern PC.
Why should i not use this system when it does some tasks faster than a high end pc?
This system is just simply excellent as a web surfing box, mp3 jukebox or similar. It also saves me some money on the electricity bill as the cpu only uses 3watt under full load.

The next version "4.2" will most likely both have SMP support as well as other modern features added.

Re:...really?

[aliquis]

No doubt I'll be called a troll but really shouldn't you put your mad skillz to a better use?

And people with the best skills has shown time and time again that they prefer to put it into something they enjoy, hence the demo scene (though some has of course decided that food was a good idea, and hence moved on to developing games or whatever.)

Lots of applications "suffer" from programmers ego by having functionality which may not make sense, be very useful or mostly bloat the application just because "it would be cool to be able to" / "I wonder if I could ..", maybe less so the more commercial, large and managed the project is.

Re:...really?

[squiggleslash]

Fuck off.

Seriously. Fuck off. You're on a tech site, full of people who do things because it interests them, for the sake of doing it.

You don't belong here. You're everything we fight against. Go watch Glee or whatever it is you people do.

Re:...really?

[commodore64_love]

>>>an obsolete OS - I think my question has some merit.

Your question makes an invalid assumption, which is why it was labeled "flamebait" or "troll" by moderators. AmigaOS 4.1 is just over 1 year old. You can that "obsolete"? Hardly. It's younger than the Vista, XP or OS X 10.5 operating systems many of us are still using. - And "I didn't know" isn't a defense when you're only a mouseclick away from google: http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=amigaos+4.1

The Amiga hardware is a bit slow (~800 megahertz), but then again it's always been a lightweight OS, so it doesn't need much speed. The original Amiga did true multitasking with just 0.25 megabytes of RAM and the modern Amiga OS is just as efficient.

Re:...really?

[commodore64_love]

>>>Quite. It's dead Jim, give it up...How many Amiga systems still work? So 3 other people download it, say WOW, and then never use it again? No doubt I'll be called a troll but really shouldn't you put your mad skillz to a better use?
>>>

If Amigas are dead why can I go buy a brand-new system, right now, for less than $1000. If Amigas are dead why is a new model being released in just a few months?

The only thing that's dead here is your curiosity. You'd rather jump to false ASSumptions, rather than GOOGLE for information about the Amiga: http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=amiga+os+4.1

You're not a troll.
You're just an ignorant boob with a big mouth, and
you made yourself look like an idiot with your "Amiga's dead" comment.

Re:...really?

[bhtooefr]

Aaaaaaactually... Firefox was originally ported to RISC OS 5 years ago.

http://www.riscos.info/index.php/Mozilla_Firefox

IIRC, there's issues with GTK2 preventing a Firefox 3.x port from being usable, but there is Firefox for "Acorn OS."

Re:...really?

[mike260]

AmigaOS 4.1 is just over 1 year old. You can that "obsolete"?

Uh, age is not a measure of obsolescence. Rather, something is obsolete when it falls sufficiently far below current baseline standards. It sucks, and it didn't deserve it, but AmigaOS is obsolete. Think of it as WALL*E if that helps soften the blow.

Re:...really?

[mike260]

Second.

Re:...really?

[RJFerret]

Even more practical than that, a tenant literally just handed me some cash, I'm popping into my Amiga software (I created with CanDo years ago) as we speak to record the transaction, with records going back almost two decades. All my banking/financial stuff I do w/Amiga software.

Okay technically my daily use "Amiga" is currently WinUAE running on my laptop, but I always wanted a laptop Amiga (and I have an A4000 and A500 still kicking, actually bought the A4000, my second, just a couple years ago for ridiculously little money from an Amiga dealer).

So the answer is you can still do some things easier on an Amiga, but web surfing via AWeb was annoying (and no Flash), that's what took me to a Linux box and ultimately to Windows. However I miss ARexx integration, standard through all software, to this day--AutoHotKey in Windows is a poor substitute.

I have MP3s that were brought over from my Amiga, as well as digital photos from way before digital cameras were mainstream, heck the background screenshot on my cellphone is carried over (was digitized with DCTV and composited/converted to JPEG with ADPro).

Just because it's not currently being promoted doesn't mean it doesn't work! Heck, it was easier/cheaper to connect my PDA to my Amiga than it was to connect it to my laptop.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

People are still into computers? Why?

Re:...really?

[abigor]

No memory protection is one reason why Amiga OS is fast. Unfortunately, it's also a big reason why it's obsolete, regardless of the chronology of its latest updates.

Re:...really?

[abigor]

Thirded.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

AmigaOS 4 isn't particularly obsolete (apart from being closed source, I happen to consider closed source obsolete in social terms). Classic AmigaOS's one serious failing* was its lack of memory protection, AmigaOS 4 added memory protection.

So yeah, modern OS versions have caught up in many areas with AmigaOS. But that neglects the gestalt - the macosx-like-but-different way everything hangs together coherently (I refuse to say synergistically). It has a bunch of features that would be recognisable to modern macosx/linux and even windoze users. And stuff like datatypes are still kinda neat today. Want every app on your system to be able to open some new multimedia file format? Drop in a datatype (codec) for it. Want [the amiga equivalent of] /usr/local/work and /opt/mystuff/work2 to appear as one logical volume? ASSIGN ADD them together. Or you can faff about with unionfs on linux of course. Want to script a bunch of apps? Gee, you can, because there's a systemwide standard for that shit. Okay, apple has applescript and windows has windows scripting host, but amiga had analogous facilities back when windows didn't even have preemptive multitasking.

A textbook basic AmigaOS setup isn't much like what the few remaining hardcore AmigaOS users can make their system do anyway:
The line between os and add-on is very blurred (a bit like linux), of course, you've got a zillion "commodities" (daemons) that mutate the GUI and OS in various directions. You've got a bunch of deeper hacks that use SetPatch() to augment/replace core OS functionality (a bit like LD_PRELOAD on linux, if you squint).

(* and strength, back when performance mattered it allowed it to use an interproceess message passing by reference architecture, which gave amazing speed on limited hardware)

Re:...really?

[commodore64_love]

>>>something is obsolete when it falls sufficiently far below current baseline standards.

And who decides those standards? YOU? hahahahaaha. You clearly know nothing about this subject. There are many people using Amigas to surf the web, listen to music, and/or watch videos just as easily as we use our Macs or PCs to do the same tasks. The Amiga exceeds whatever "baseline standards" you have floating in your close-minded brain

Re:...really?

[commodore64_love]

>>>No memory protection

(cough) (whispers) That hasn't been true since 1992. Per usual the Amiga had this feature before either Mac or PC had it.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

AmigaOS 4 added memory protection.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, AmigaOS had Enforcer and later Guardian Angel all the way back then, sure. But they made your amiga run almost as slow as the next memory protected OS, since, well, they used MMU hardware on your system just like other memory protected OSes (i.e. unix). And on a double-digit-MHz machine, that hurt a lot.

So Enforcer/GuardianAngel were used mainly by developers with "accelerated" amigas with replaced CPUs with MMUs onboard - if you fixed bugs until enforcer "hits" stopped, you could be fairly confident that you wouldn't crash end-user machines running without any such memory protection.

It wasn't until amigaos 4 that any in-OS support for memory protection became official.

Re:...really?

[butlerm]

What's next? a DOS version

DOS isn't a operating system, it is a system that operates disks. Porting Firefox to DOS would pretty much require you to write a modern operating system first. The disk/file support that comes with DOS just scratches the surface.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

@ philofaqs

Stating from various polls on amiga sites, there are about 1500 Old Amigas equipped qwith PowerPC acceleration cards, 3000 Amiga New Generation Machines (AONE XE, SE, MicroAONE, Sam440 EX, SAm 440Flex), 1500 to 2000 Pegasos MorphOS Users and other 500 to 1000 loading MorphOS on PPC based Macintosh computers, 5000 users of Classic Amigas equipped with 680xx acceleration cards, more than 10.000 users of WinUAE Amiga Emulator (But these are mainly persons who want to emulate old Amigas for gaming) and an an unknown but steady growing number of users of Open Source operating system AROS, even if it is incomplete (sure almost 100 to 300 are using it more and more, due to the fact AROS now has good OWB Webkit Browser, and it cames installed on some netbooks like iMica System, and ARESONE).

That's a damn*d fu**ing core userbase.

Does this sounds enough machines and enough alive and kicking for you "Jim Famous Spaceship Captain dressed in pajama suit"?

Ciao,

Raffaele
 

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it's just a proprietary OS that runs on outdated PPC hardware that nobody in their right mind would use.

Re:...really?

[Spikeles]

For the money

Re:...really?

[adelgado]

Well, as a geek born in the 90's I'd like to understand why people still use Amigas...

If it's just for the coolness I can easily appreciate it, hell, I ran Windows 3.11 for a few months on my Core 2 Quad as my primary OS just because I could, but otherwise are there any significant applications or niches Amiga OS fills that aren't quite addressed by modern Unix or Windows operating systems?

Re:...really?

[Skuld-Chan]

Are you talking about enforcer? That really was more of a developer tool - chances are if enforcer kicked in you could either (try to) debug or reboot because at that point the app was unusable, and so was the rest of the machine (especially if enforcer kept looping).

At any rate I wouldn't call it memory protection.

Re:...really?

[Joe Tie.]

The biggest way that slashdot has gone downhill since I started reading it has been the amount of people who ask "why" a person would do some neat bit of coding, or engineering, or hacking, or whatever. Why does someone climb a mountain or paint a painting.

Re:...really?

[surveyork]

Does AmigaOS have a big base of hackers actively writing viruses, worms and various malware exploits for it? No? Then, it's obsolete.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Friedens had already started work on the port before that bounty was created. Of course, it'd be a pretty safe bet that one would pop up before long, but it doesn't seem like that was the intention.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummm... Memory protection was not part of the OS in 1992. It may have had support for MMU protection of certain areas of memory, but it needed a 3rd party application to enforce it. And some parts of the OS *depend* on the lack of memory protection for passing messages between tasks. It makes it ridiculously efficient to do (basically the app has to set a flag and that's it), but at a cost of memory protection support. It exists in the current OS but needs to be disabled for compatibility with the older software...

Re:...really?

[minus9]

Amazingly some people like old cars too, They spend ages tinkering with them.

Some of them didn't even have air-con or sat-nav!!

Navid you have messed up. Enjoy your skydiving.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, there are nearly 300 downloads since yesterday so you're out by a fair margin. If people use AmigaOS and enjoy it, and it's still being developed, why is it dead? True it's missing lots of modern stuff, but it's not dead. And why would Amiga guys never use it again? Because they already have a capable browser? Or do you think they're not into this modern internet fad? It's an alpha, so it's not going to be the main browser for most people, but I'm sure that'll change once it gets to a stable release. AmigaOS and DOS can't really be compared. One of them boots natively into a lovely 1600x1200 32-bit desktop on which you can browse the internet, see networked files, watch and edit video and sound, do most of the things you want without too much hassle. The other needs a driver to use more than 640k of memory and tends to have trouble with more than 16 colours, or sound cards...

Re:...really?

[skurk]

Because some of us just can't let go.

And, to be fair, OS4.1 and beyond is pretty good and is only available for new PPC hardware (like the Sam440, as well as the upcoming Sam460 and X1000). It comes with lots of GNU tools, gcc, a decent browser that actually works, good internet connectivity, and so on.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

I still do all my wordprocessing on the c64 with The Write Stuff.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the newer Amiga OS4 has memory protection, and most any other feature you find in a modern OS. And keeping in spirit of the original amiga a few features you won't find in any other OS. (can you say RESRAD:?)

Re:...really?

[Jedi Alec]

Awwwwww

I was really looking forward to telling Firefox what IRQ/port/DMA to use for the soundcard. And *then* I get to setup emm386.exe and himem.sys just right for it to run...

Ahhh, good times, good times.

Re:...really?

[mike260]

Memory-protection.

Re:...really?

[butlerm]

Don't forget about the settings for the network card, and the video card, and a DOS extender...

Re:...really?

[Jeek Elemental]

Maybe Eric Schwartz can enlighten you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mg6wrYCT9Q&feature=related

Re:...really?

[mdwh2]

Yeah, you never get any interest or stories about proprietary OSs round here, certainly not... And no one ever liked PowerPC, right.

Re:...really?

[mdwh2]

Well yes by that definition, AmigaOS is obsolete for me, but I'm not sure it's a good definition. By that standard, IphoneOS is obsolete for me.

The definition of "obsolete" is "no longer in use or no longer useful".

If it's being used by people, then "no longer in use" doesn't apply. It's no longer useful to most people who once used AmigaOS. But again, it depends on the person - it's evidently still useful to those who are using it. Also note that this definition doesn't apply to those people who never used Amigas (just as I wouldn't say that Iphone is obsolete for me, because it's never been useful to me).

Not that being obsolete is a bad thing - all the operating systems of the 80s and 90s, and even the early 2000s, are "obsolete" to most people: DOS, Windows 9x, NT/2000, Mac OS (the original, not the OS X which shares its name but is a different OS). But equally it just seems pointless - what's the need to have a hundred comments of whiners going "it's obsolete"? If you're no longer interested, then read another story. We only have an Amiga story once a year at most, compared with the three Ipad stories we get a day, so it's not like it's taking up much space...

Re:...really?

[mdwh2]

Multitasking. Oh oops, the Amiga does make that baseline, it's the Ipad which doesn't :)

Still, at least we no longer have to put up with people criticising the Amiga for its lack of Flash or Java - such "limitations" are now considered an advantage.

Re:...really?

[Massacrifice]

If the big questions (why?) are asked in good faith, as I think this one is, it is a great opportunity for people with answers to come out and educate the masses.

Rather than opposing the question, maybe you should put some work towards an answer, as I haven't seen any satisfying one in this thread yet.

Re:...really?

[mike260]

3rd-party apps are not allowed to use the functionality, but the ipad OS multitasks just fine.

Re:...really?

[An ominous Cow art]

Windows 3.1 came out in 1992; the Amiga, in 1985. 7 years is a long time in the computer industry. And yet, the Amiga was a far better GUI-based OS. That's why it's so important to so many geeks. I'm still sad about the (original) company's tragic end as a PC-contemptible manufacturer.

I don't know whether anyone still uses an Amiga as their day-to-day machine, but it wouldn't surprise me too much. My Amiga 500 (with sidecar 30M HD, 3M of RAM (I think) and 68010 CPU) is deceased, but I wish I could boot it up and play some of the old games...

Re:...really?

[Just Some Guy]

That's not really fair. I owned an used an Amiga until '99 or so and was very active in Amiga newsgroups and mailing lists. I'm not a hater by any stretch of the imagination, and I think my nerd credentials are up to date. And yet, I think that's a valid question: why do people still use Amigas? I can't imagine any objective way in which they'd be better than another modern desktop. Subjectively, sure: some people just want to use something different. That's cool. But nostalgia and quirkiness aside, are there any other reasons to use one?

Don't read that as an attack or criticism, because it's not. Again, I like Amigas and have nothing whatsoever against them. I just can't imagine wanting to use one as my primary desktop today.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

The biggest way that slashdot has gone downhill since I started reading...

Says the guy with the 6 digit uid.

Re:...really?

[commodore64_love]

AmigaOS 3.x and 4.x both have memory protection, same as a modern Mac OS X or Windows 5.x/6.x have memory protection.

3.x was released in 1992

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

AmigaOS 3.x never had true memory protection, you're just mistaken there. It did have a new pooled memory allocator architecture intended to be a path towards its introduction, but then CBM imploded, and the memory protection didn't happen until AmigaOS 4.

Re:...really?

[mike260]

Yep, fair enough, withdrawn.

Re:...really?

[lena_10326]

Nostalgia is a huge reason, but you asked for more. Many times it's more fun to code for older machines due to their architectural simplicity. Sometimes people enjoy assembler coding, which can be easier on them. Some people see unfulfilled potential and want to see how far they can push the hardware beyond its expectations. Many of these machines were never pushed to their limits because techniques were discovered after the machine's popularity shrank. Some people want to be different. Fooling around with obscure platforms will make you "unique". Many people keep the machines to play Amiga games. Playing those games on new PCs just isn't the same. Porting modern apps to these machines becomes a game to see who can get XYZ running on the box. (Similar to how porting XYZ to Linux was the "new" thing in the 90's.) Some people merely want to bring new apps and games to the Amiga to support communities devoted to the preservation of the hardware. Some people are hardware collectors and need reasons for playing around with the machines. New apps = new interest.

A lot of Amiga owners are going to have std Wintel desktops lying around and this particular update is for AmigaOS 4.1 which runs on the faster/newer Amigas. I believe those machines are fast enough to be used for primary desktops; although, I doubt you'll find instances where the classic 68k Amigas are the sole PC in the home, but that doesn't mean they aren't heavily used.

This phenomena is nothing unique to Amigas. The exact same thing exists among the groups for Atari, Apple, Tandy, 8086/88, Palm, NES/SNES/N64/GC/GBA/XBOX/PS, TI calculator, and numerous hand held gadgets.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, OS4 doesn't have memory protection at all. The memory is shared between all tasks. Some illegal accesses to unallocated memory can be detected and that's the same for some stack overflows (a GUI shows up and allows to block the access or continue). But it certainly can't be called memory protection. Anything can happily trash another program.

And let's not talk about resource arbitration and resource tracking.

The situation is of course the same for all amigaos-likes, and for a good reason: the binary compatibility with 68k programs depends on it. Just an example why it can't be fixed: amigaos relies on a messaging system, where messages are passed by address between the different tasks. This alone prevents memory protection.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Why use AmigaOS 4 in 2009? - Long cut" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx3q2wFIn6k

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

That only applies to old tasks. Tasks coded to the new apis are memory protected from eachother.

Re:...really?

[Anonymous Coward]

that's bs, I had an AOS 3.x Amiga in 1992 and it did not have mp.

How responsive?

[Anonymous Coward]

How responsive is this port? Is it fast enough to get a first post on slashdot?

Re:How responsive?

[sxedog]

I think you answered your own question...

Re:How responsive?

[Qzukk]

No no, he's looking into it to see if it's faster than what he's currently using.

Re:How responsive?

[JWSmythe]

    Well, it should be faster than his C64. :)

   

Re:How responsive?

[TheRaven64]

The C64 web browser is actually pretty fast. Unfortunately, with only 64KB of RAM in total, and around 10KB or so taken up with the kernel (Contiki), there isn't much left to store web pages. Basically, you need to get a first post, because if you load a Slashdot page with more than a few comments you'll run out of memory.

Re:How responsive?

[bhtooefr]

The Apple II version of Contiki does things in a way that's simultaneously very smart and absolutely fucktarded.

Because it doesn't support CSS or anything fancy, it grabs the page, and anything that it knows won't display, it discards.

To display more of the page, it makes another round trip to grab the page again.

Re:How responsive?

[commodore64_love]

That is why you need the 4096 kilobyte external memory upgrade. The internal 64K is used directly by the 6502 CPU while the external memory can be used for caching of webpages, graphics, et cetera.

AmigaOS

[Hatta]

Does this run on anything besides official Amigas? Does it run on anything fast enough to make Firefox worthwhile? If so, does it still support all the original Amiga software?

Re:AmigaOS

[idontgno]

I'm not sure what you mean by "official Amiga". OS 4.x is strictly PPC, and specifically "AmigaOne, SAM440EP and Pegasos II" (from the "AmigaOS 4.1 Update 2" link). By my definition, there were no native PPC Amigas (i.e., from Commodore); those were all 680x0 machines like God intended.

I guess that just goes to show you the unsettled state of what's considered "Amiga".

Re:AmigaOS

[Hatta]

Honestly I didn't even know there were PPC Amigas. I'm guessing they won't run 68k Amiga software then.

Re:AmigaOS

[Anonymous Coward]

No official Amiga shipped with eithernet, you had to buy an expansion card and buy a (or roll your own) tcp/ip stack.
Amiga's were gasping their dieing breaths when the web started to take off.

Re:AmigaOS

[somersault]

Originally the PPC stuff was done by an add-on card and you could still run 68k software AFAIK. I couldn't afford to upgrade to PPC though and ended up going to PCs instead.. I'm still slightly tempted by the whole thing just for fun.. with a decent browser then an Amiga could be almost as useful to me as any Mac or Linux machine.. then again if I'm going to bother buying a desktop machine I'd probably get it with Windows so that I could do a bit of gaming on it. If there's a PPC Amiga emulator out there I might give it a go for just to see what it's like..

Re:AmigaOS

[Anonymous Coward]

It already runs on some PPC systems with up to 1ghz g4.
This summer will see the release of yet another amiga system with pci express, dual core and 2gig of ram. I think this would be considered fast enough. :P
I am writing this on a low end Sam 440ep 533mhz system running firefox/timberwolf on OS4.2. The timberwolf alpha actually runs surprisingly well considering it has not yet been optimized at all and lack hardware rendering support.

Re:AmigaOS

[TheRaven64]

They probably can. The PowerPC instruction set was designed to make it easy to emulate x86 and m68k. The AIM (Apple, IBM, Motorola) group wanted to run Windows and MacOS on them, emulating the legacy architectures for old code. Given that most m68k Amigas had an CPU running at under 8MHz, and even the upgrades only went to about 40MHz, it's not much of a stretch to expect a 533MHz PowerPC to be able to emulate the m68k chip much faster than the real thing ran. Unless, of course, you bought one of the 300MHz m68k expansions that came out a couple of years ago, and even then the PPC is probably faster.

Re:AmigaOS

[commodore64_love]

>>>By my definition, there were no native PPC Amigas (i.e., from Commodore); those were all 680x0 machines like God intended.

But Commodore(spit) sold the Amiga to other companies, and those other companies followed the Apple Macintosh example: Upgraded from the obsolete 68000-series to the new PowerPC CPUs. These later model Amigas are no longer Commodore(spit)-labeled machines, but they are still Amigas.

In retrospect the death of Commodore may have been one of the best things to happen for Amiga. It freed them from a company that didn't know how to innovate (it just sat on its ass for 7 years, not upgrading the graphics or sound).

Re:AmigaOS

[Anonymous Coward]

Amiga OS 4.x has built in 68k emulation layer that works for most system/OS friendly software. Even my Sam 533mhz running 4.1 emulates 68k faster than the fastest 68k chips.

Re:AmigaOS

[Anonymous Coward]

You are right, there never was a PPC Amiga. Commodore was thinking about migrating to some HP Risc processor but they went bankrupt instead. This is someone else doing something else. Why they do it is something I can't figure out though. I mean why would anyone pay more than a 1000-1500 Euros to use this when it's slower and less capable than Linux? This press release is like "we can use Firefox now", I mean DUH?! It's 2010! And why use Firefox anyway, it's not like there aren't better browsers out there! And it's not even Firefox, it's "Timberwolf". For some reason they don't use the Firefox name (probably for some license/legal issue), but yet they are using it all over the place? 1000 Euros too expensive for something that died and completely lost its purpose 15 years ago. I don't get the hype?

Re:AmigaOS

[orange47]

actually there are PPC cards (BlizzardPPC) for 'classic' Amigas. those beasts have two CPUs, and can use them at same time (i think, at least no restart is required). sadly only OS4.0 runs on them.

Re:AmigaOS

[rhyder128k]

If you EVER figure out why the various Amiga OS developers didn't abandon legacy 68k support in favour of an emulation layer about 15 years ago, PLEASE let me know.

Re:AmigaOS

[ninjakoala]

They run most system friendly m68k software through JIT emulation. You can, of course, also run UAE and variants thereof to run hardware banging software. RunInUAE is an almost entirely transparent method to do so.

Re:AmigaOS

[ninjakoala]

"Official Amiga" is, I guess, the system running "Amiga OS" from whoever has the rights to call it that. The name has been shifted around a lot, but the PPC systems run an operating system directly descended from the m68k Amigas.

Macs run on x86 instead of PPC or m68k these days too.

The right to use the Amiga-related names lie at Amiga Inc. and Hyperion Entertainment CVBA (some usages exclusive to Hyperion - some on license). Hyperion works with third parties to deliver machines. The AmigaOne X1000 from A-Eon will be the first fully Amiga-branded machine (branded case, mouse, keyboard) to release since Amiga 4000T.

Re:AmigaOS

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess that just goes to show you the unsettled state of what's considered "Amiga".

"Amiga" is whatever is being sold under that name by the current owner of the relevant trademarks.

Seriously, that's all their is to it. There used to be ACTUAL Amigas back in the day, with a specific OS, specific chips, specific hardware etc., but these days, you've just got run-of-the-mill PPC machines with regular GPUs running some Unix variant.

Not entirely unlike Apple, actually, but rather more unsuccessful, and without the polished OS on top of the Unix core.

Re:AmigaOS

[Anonymous Coward]

Escom (when they brought brought Commodore in 1994) announced the PowerAmiga and AmigaOS 4 in 95, which was based on the PPC 604:
    * http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/pamiga97.html

I remember seeing loads of mock up in magazines etc, but they never actually mass produced it (maybe prototypes floating about).

The new AmigaOne X1000 has just entered beta testing and contains a PowerISA 204:
    * http://a-eon.com/index.html (requires JavaScript enabled and click on the red checkered ball in the bottom right corner, then X1000 button).

Re:AmigaOS

[hitmark]

if those 68k are still made (not likely but hey) could one pull something similar in reverse? have the main cpu be a PPC and then offload the older amiga code to a addon 68k board? even the best amiga emulators seems to struggle at times, to i guess its more about the custom amiga chips then the 68k.

Re:AmigaOS

[somersault]

Yeah I don't think it's emulating 68k processors that is the problem, we've been doing that for a looong time.. and any games I ran on Amiga emulators even 5 years ago were fine tbh. If you're having problems then you maybe need to switch around settings on the emulator.

HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE A DEAD OS

[Anonymous Coward]

HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE A DEAD OS

Slashdot mods: Infinitely Retarded

oops

[MrDoh!]

| Guru Meditation Error |

Names & Shiny Objects

[MonsterTrimble]

Three things:
1) Why call it Timberwolf? To avoid the Iceweasel debacle?
2) Timberwolf sounds a whole lot cooler than Firefox.
3) AmigaOS looks pretty from the screenshots.

Re:Names & Shiny Objects

[Anonymous Coward]

1) Why call it Timberwolf? To avoid the Iceweasel debacle?

It's not avoiding some theoretical problem. If you modify Firefox you aren't allowed to distribute it as "Firefox".

Re:Names & Shiny Objects

[Red Flayer]

1) Why call it Timberwolf? To avoid the Iceweasel debacle?

This was the inspired effort of the lead marketing consultant (one of the grizzled developer's girlfriends).

2) Timberwolf sounds a whole lot cooler than Firefox.

Yes, this was the special insight of the aforementioned girlfriend -- she realized that there was a unique opportunity to capitalize on the zeitgeist: namely the Three Wolf Moon phenomenon and the popularity of the reality TV logging shows.

3) AmigaOS looks pretty from the screenshots.

So does your mom... but that's just because both sets of screenshots were taken using the "MySpace angle".

Sorry.

I awoke today...

[Anonymous Coward]

...in an alternate universe where Amiga won the PC wars. All the screensavers in the office are bouncing red/white checkered boing balls. Video-toaster overlays make compiz look like MSDOS. Also, Wil Wheaton is CIO of America.

Re:I awoke today...

[Fantastic Lad]

That would actually be an awesome universe! I remember the Amiga people were bright and happy and smart. Kind of like Apple people today, except they were more fun and they weren't scared of hacking and open source thinking.

It could have happened, too. There was this weird period where everything shifted. It was when Lucasarts released X-Wing on the PC and nothing else. I know guys who bought whole $2000+ systems just to play that game. (Such was the power of Star Wars before Phantom). Imagine if Lucas had released it on the Amiga?

Heck, Bill Gates might not have become such a force in everybody's lives.

Of course, the Evil Overlords were prepared for such an eventuality. Some ex-CIA spooks managed to work themselves into power over at Commodore, and tanked the company. Interestingly, it's very hard to look up the details of that since Google searches on the subject get confused by one of the chips inside the Amiga, called the "CIA" chip.

But whatever.

Instead we got Linux and Mozilla. And Slashdot, for that matter. Can't keep the good guys down!

-FL

Looks like Gurus will have a new gig

[ryan.onsrc]

Awesome, now Gurus will be mediated to troubleshoot Firefox (I mean Timberwolf) issues.

USER_AGENT

[RichMan]

So does anyone know the exact string the browser identifies as?

I am thinking I should set my browser to match this.

Re:USER_AGENT

[Wovel]

Hmm..Perhaps we should make Amiga appear to the most popular OS on the Internet...

Re:USER_AGENT

[metacell]

That would be a great joke :)

12 years too late

[Anonymous Coward]

When Mozilla was released back in 1998 there were several announcements of releases for AmigaOS. Only now they finally manage to do it.

Wow

[Locke2005]

I'm sure both the people out there that still have functioning Amigas are thrilled -- but only because they were both involved with the porting process!

Re:Amiga. Sounds cool.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's stupid.

What movie could you watch in 15 seconds?

Re:Amiga. Sounds cool.

[Lunix Nutcase]

Anything starring Rob Schneider or Ben Stiller? The first 15 seconds of the movie is usually the limit of what any normal person could stand of them.

You do all know that Amiga OS 4.1 is new, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't the old Amiga OS running on old hardware. This is a new version (as in 2000's) of the Amiga OS to take advantage of newer, more powerful hardware etc.

Named after Justin Timberlake

[syousef]

1) Why call it Timberwolf? To avoid the Iceweasel debacle?

The guy who wrote it has aspergers and is obsessed with Justin Timberlake.

2) Timberwolf sounds a whole lot cooler than Firefox.

Oh dear, another Justin fan!

3) AmigaOS looks pretty from the screenshots.

Note: Doesn't reserve the word "pretty" for females. Yep that about confirms it.

Reality Check

[H0p313ss]

Could someone with mad hacker skills and way too much time on their hands please post some figures comparing the computing power of an Amiga to an iPad?

I'm just nostalgic as anyone else who started messing with computers in the 70s and I remember the first machines I used and owned with great fondness. But you have to recognize that your "hobby time" spent with antique hardware and software is of very little benefit to the world.

Which is why it's called a hobby.

Re:Reality Check

[Red Flayer]

Could someone with mad hacker skills and way too much time on their hands please post some figures comparing the computing power of an Amiga to an iPad?

Sure. This is the computing power of an Amiga:

.

See it? Now this is the computing power of an iPad:

o

And that's about as exact an approximation as we need... computing power is not a complete metric for comparing computing systems. More important is the computing ecosystem -- the applications available, the restrictions on use of the system, etc. I'm sure that there are some people out there for whom an Amiga is better suited to their computing needs than an iPad, since it is largely an open ecosystem.

But you have to recognize that your "hobby time" spent with antique hardware and software is of very little benefit to the world.

Which is why it's called a hobby.

Actually, almost everything I do is of very little benefit to the world. Yet my job is not a hobby, my family is not a hobby, breathing is not a hobby... and yet, one of my hobbies is maintaining hiking trails. Probably this is the one thing with the most positive impact on the world that I do, and it's a hobby.

My main point here is that someone spending time on Amiga development may be pursuing a hobby... but whether their hobby benefits the rest of the world in a measurable manner is beside the point. The only concern is whether or not it fulfills them without harming others. And you'd be hard pressed to demonstrate harm to others without introducing societal opportunity cost, which is a tough selling point when it comes to individual fulfillment.

All that said... congrats to the developers on a (somewhat) stable release. They should take pride in their accomplishment, regardless of how important that accomplishment is to society as a whole.

Re:Reality Check

[commodore64_love]

>>>computing power of an Amiga to an iPad?

Well an iPad won't let me play my favorite game - Elite. So that's why I keep my Commodore 64 and Amiga running, even though they are slow as snails. As for MODERN Amigas versus an iPad - I have no idea.

The latest Amiga will be released soon, with a 1500 megahertz PowerPC. So about the same as the first Mac G5, but with a much better operating system.

Re:Reality Check

[Anonymous Coward]

So you are calling hardware in the ghz range for antique?? What about the new dual core at 1.8ghz with 2gig of ram that is to be released this summer??
Even my low end Sam 533mhz is faster and more responsive than a modern windows pc for most normal computing tasks.
My amiga is usually only slower than my linux box only with software/games that is CPU or GPU resource hog.

Re:Reality Check

[H0p313ss]

Yeah, no Elite. But I should thank you for making me look for trading games Warp Gate looks pretty cool. If you're into old games the iPad is actually a pretty cool device since it has a 1024x768 display and accellarated OpenGL support.

Re:Reality Check

[CharlyFoxtrot]

If only someone would port Oolite to iOS. There was a rumor that Elite would be available in the C64 emulator for iPhone/iPad but it's not there yet.

Re:Reality Check

[Samurai Crow]

You have misread my comment. This version of FireFox is not intended to run on a Classic Amiga with a 680x0 processor. This one is intended to run on a yet-to-be-released AmigaOne X1000 which is rumored to have a dual-core PowerPC clocked at 1.8 GHz. It will walk all over your iPad and keep pace with my Mac Mini. For more information about the X1000 see A-Eon's website.

Re:Reality Check

[commodore64_love]

Okay.

Now try playing Red Storm Rising, or other keyboard-intensive game, using an emulator. I've tried but because the game was specifically designed for the C64 keyboard's layout, it's nigh-impossible to play on a PC or Mac keyboard. The keys don't match up

Because it's OSS

[Anonymous Coward]

You can mark this as flamebait or whatever, but this was clearly posted here because of the novelty of porting a modern, popular program to an obsolete OS.

Which means that the obsolete OS still has users -- so I think my question has some merit.

The wonderful thing about open-source software is that "because you can" is a perfectly valid reason, as are "because I personally want it" and "because it's a challenge."

If this was an announcement of, say, Microsoft Office or Adobe CS5 being ported to an obsolete OS, you'd have to wonder about the sanity of the company in question.

Now I need Amiga emulator for my Firefox

[Anonymous Coward]

so I would be able to run recursively the browser...I do not mind the emulator to be written in JavaScript, it has a chance to be equally fast as on real Amiga, right?

Re:Now I need Amiga emulator for my Firefox

[Anonymous Coward]

Sup dawg. We herd you liek running javascript emulators in your browsers so we put an emulator in your emulator so you can emulate while you emulatin'!

Oh yeah?

[Fished]

Mac user: Your sad devotion to that dying religion hasn't helped you conjure up the stolen Commodore glory!

Amiga user: I find your lack of faith disturbing. Pinch. Pinch. Damnit. Why isn't it working!?

Timberwolf video

[drHirudo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvUc7hXUAX8 - Timberwolf on micro A1 - it's fast, despite the Alpha Version.

Re:You do all know that Amiga OS 4.1 is new, right

[Per Wigren]

New as in april 30th, 2010 even...

Hopefully better than the RISC OS port

[QJimbo]

The RISC OS port of Firefox was overhyped and painfully slow even on the Iyonix last time I tried it. It wasn't a "true" port either, it didn't use the native GUI of the operating system. It would be a shame if this port has similar setbacks.

Re:Hopefully better than the RISC OS port

[Jorl17]

RTFA and get your answers.

Good work.

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for all your hard works, guys. Can you please make this run on my TI/99-4A as well? Thanks.

Re:You do all know that Amiga OS 4.1 is new, right

[Simmeh]

I've heard good things so far about the alpha, things are looking up =)

Re:You do all know that Amiga OS 4.1 is new, right

[TheRaven64]

Typical Amiga user - completely oblivious to the rest of the industry. Compaq discontinued the Alpha over a decade ago...

Exciting news for AmigaOS users

[Alien1024]

For all four of them.

I am anxiously waiting for the ZX Spectrum port.

They Said: "Firefox? It can be done on Amiga"

[Anonymous Coward]

Release of Alpha 1 version of Timberwolf (Amiga Shiretoko/Firefox) is truly a slap in the face that I dedicate with all my heart to all the naysayers who said publicly on dozens of forums and news articles that Firefox porting it can't be done on Amiga because it has slow PPC processors and has too few hardware resources.

Only Amiga makes it possible.

Ciao,

Raffaele

Re:Hopefully better than the RISC OS? YES!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Stating from those who had used it, Timberwolf it is surprisingly stable and enough fast in drawing pages, even if it steals many cycles of the processor and uses huge quantities of RAM.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5470&start=0

Some found it more quick than OWB Amiga browser based on Webkit (and truly Webkit is very fast)

Ciao,

Raffaele

Re:...really? YARLY!

[Anonymous Coward]

We use Amiga because it is fun, easy to use, no resource consuming, low footprint.

It obeys flawlessly the user, and responds immediately.

AOS does not send unwanted private info to M$, and does not loads unwanted things by automated Hidden Update Services.

Is it intelligible for the normal user and has a plain easy system of directories unlike Linux which is aimed to geeks with a PhD in Computer Science.

AmigaOS does not treat the user as stupid baby bimbos unable to grow up as it assumes MacOS, where you must dig the OS preferences to disable all the annoying warnings that pop up the desktop and advicing you are stupid and you must be perfectly sure of any action you ordered the machine to perform.

In Amiga it is you controlling the OS and the platform, and not vice--versa.

If all these little thingie features it is not enough for you, then welcome! You are dead brain and nothing than a zombiie user from PC world.
Somewhere, somewhen you were just just lobotomized brainwashed by your PC-OS manufacturer, and you were not even capable to undestand this happened.

Ciao,

Raffaele

Re:AmigaOS (PPC and 680xx software)

[Anonymous Coward]

PPC based AmigaOS run ancient 680xx software thru Just in Time based emulator embedded into it.

If there are software that does not apprecciate JIT Machine, you can blacklist this software and it will run slowly without JIT.

Tough you can run only Amiga Professional Software that should make no calls to original Amiga Hardware Chipset.

This means that games cannot run on new Amigas.

For example new PPC Amigas can run trhu AmigaOS based 680xx emulator all those professional software like Final Writer word processor software, good pieces of imaging software like Art Effect, Image FX and all the vaste majority of Amiga Graphic Programs vector or bitmap, DTP programs like Pagestream, various 3D rendering software like Imagine and Lightwave (only the PPC version), various music software, route planning software, stars & planetarium software, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

In order to run ancient games and good but old software like Deluxe Paint (that makes lots of use of Amiga Chipset features) Then even new generation PPC based Amigas uses UAE Emulator.

I thank you on behalf of Amiga Web Surfers

[fm6]

Both of them.

AmigaOS ? You're kidding, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

AmigaOS ? You're kidding, right?

So...?

[Anonymous Coward]

....Ho hum...

Re:Amiga. Sounds cool.

[Anonymous Coward]

The hilarious thing is, there's probably some idiot here who'd huff and indignantly ask "why not indeed". Gotta love a culture where doing anything that exercises your brain/body is consider a good thing. Very reductionist and decadent I say.

The idea of Firefox

[Anonymous Coward]

Firefox is designed to build and run on ANY modern 32bit OS with necessary frameworks and of course, gnu compiler chain available.

The idea behind Firefox like tools and in fact, Unix is that. Of course, they must have some nightmare to port it to Amiga but at the end, they managed to do it.

No memory protection but...

[Ilgaz]

Really, a lot of people jumping to PC ship always wondered how come Amiga could work without memory protection.

Why? Basically, we had some real mean Amigas (A3000, A4000) which were in use at production, sometimes in live TV (titling etc, still used) and I never remember any of them crash. 3d titling animations like stuff sometimes required days to render and at the end, you always had the result, not some "guru meditation". Such machines were never turned off, rebooted, always used in hot environments, heavily multitasked and full of unsupported CPU upgrades.

So, really, why didn't Amiga crash that much?

Re:No memory protection but...

[commodore64_love]

The 68000-based Amigas (500,600,2000) crashed all the time, due to lack of an MMU. But the models you were using (A3000 and 4000) had modern CPUs (68020 or higher) with built-in MMUs, and that's why they were so stable.

Re:No memory protection but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Again, you're wrong. The MMU on the A3000 was mostly used for running Amix (amiga unix of yore) and Enforcer. It didn't help the stability of AmigaOS 3.x and below (modulo enforcer/ guardian angel), since AmigaOS 3.x and below didn't do anything useful with the MMU (no really, it didn't - N.B. I had a Cybervision PPC, to let you gauge the timeframe I left the amiga scene) - what _did_ help the stability was the A3000's newer OS release, memory, harddrive and general relative lack of resource constraints (when the AmigaOS 1.x on a weeny 500 suddenly ran out of memory, blammo, crash. Same on an A3000 but it was much harder to run out of resources), as well as the fact A3000 users were generally pros running non-cracked OS-legal serious software rather than virus-infested (one thing the amiga was really good at was hosting viruses) pirated games.

Speaking about obsolete

[Ilgaz]

If we are talking about "didn't deserve but..." thing, Apple PowerPC, including G5 (which is 64bit) has been obsoleted by Apple right after 10.6 release.

It gets security updates, Safari update but at the end, core OS (including open source parts and most importantly, drivers) doesn't get updated. That is not some eccentric platform either, it is 64bit to begin with.

Amiga OS users say they got last OS update a year ago. What is obsolete? Amiga or PowerPC Mac, from $250 billion Apple Inc?

In theory, it should work fine

[Ilgaz]

I used Netscape 4.x and IE 4 (or 5?) on a PowerBook Duo 270c, which has a 68030 with 24 MB of RAM running MacOS 7.6. You know what? It worked fine, except (unsurprisingly) Flash animations.

As I know the power and culture of Amiga, which runs 32bit for ages to begin with, I can't see a reason why such a modern code like Firefox should suck on it, especially in days with PowerPC processors running Amiga.

If you mean A1200/A4000 Amigas by official, I really wonder about it too. For example if one could port 68060 running Amiga 4000 and how would it perform?

Obsolete?

[treczoks]

Well, you might call it obsolete. But it still(!) runs circles around so-called modern systems when it comes to interface responsiveness, and elegance of OS design.

Whenever I have to struggle with Pain(t)ShopPro or, even worse, GIMP, I wish for DPaint, and MaxxonCAD might not be a contender for AutoCAD, but it was way easier (and more affordable) for casual use.

And the development environment around SAS C with its blazing fast compiler that could produce ass-tight code (Try making a "Hello World!" program in less than one K of executable on a "modern" system) is still on my mind. Especially with its support back then - far superior over what I get today with the different commercial development systems I use.

Yes, it might be obsolete, because it had no memory protection, but a MMU is not the solution for for all the problems out there. No memory protection also made interprocess communication way easier, and if you consider how well Amiga programs interact with each other via a system-wide AREXX scripting engine, the lack of an MMU is neglectable.

At least editor-wise I finally found something at least comparable to the decade-old super-duper-editor CygnusEd: Notepad++. The sad part is that NP++ does not run on Linux...

lack of memory protection

[warpdesign]

> >>>No memory protection >(cough) (whispers) That hasn't been true since 1992. Per usual the Amiga had this feature before either Mac or PC had it. In what alternative world are you living ? :) AmigaOS has no (true) memory protection, and shares the same address space between each processes. That means any process can (and do all the time) bring down the whole system. AmigaOS doesn't support multi processing. That means you can't make use of multi core processors. AmigaOS doesn't support resource-tracking. It means you cannot easily close and free all resources available to an application that would refuse to close itself. AmigaOS doesn't support 64 bit. And won't easily... (and yes, some parts support 64bit, like dos.library allowing to access >4gb partitions, and so on... but this has nothing to do with 64bit adressing/processing available inside the OS). And this cannot be added without breaking compatibility. Hyperion keep on saying it can be done, but it remains to be seen. Fact is after 10 years of development since the very first "AmigaOS 4" version, it lags behind mainstrean OS because of the mentionned missing features from the core OS. You may still like/appreciate/use it: no problem... But you have to understand this is a problem for the adoption of the OS for anyone outside the Amiga community.

Re:lack of memory protection

[dfghjk]

"That hasn't been true since 1992. Per usual the Amiga had this feature before either Mac or PC had it."

The IBM PC AT had hardware memory protection in 1984 and ran flavors of Unix that supported it. Windows first got memory protection in Windows/386 in 1987. OS/2 had it from the start in 1987. Windows NT also had it from the beginning although that was 1993.

"In what alternative world are you living ?"

Indeed. Not in yours.

yes really

[mdwh2]

Why not? Do we have this discussion everytime on Slashdot there's a story about say Macs? (Or maybe we could ask it of Windows:)

It's not like people are still using A500s. And even for those that are, there are occasional stories on other old systems too (e.g., classic Macs).

Why not have a story on historical classic platforms - this is meant to be "News for Nerds" isn't it, or have we turned into "Consumer News for iPad users" already?

Shouldn't that read "Timberwolf (a.k.a. MadCat)" ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Earth is part of the Inner Sphere after all ...

Glee?

[N0Man74]

So, are you suggesting it's not socially acceptable for slashdotters to watch Glee? What if they watch it streaming online? How about if they pirate it?

What about the CoCo?

[N0Man74]

Seriously, where's the CoCo love!? ;-)

Firefox for Amiga!

[Anonymous Coward]

Awesome news! Amiga OS 4.1 rocks!