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New Xbox 360 S Uses Less Power, Makes Less Noise
Vigile writes "Microsoft unveiled a new Xbox 360 S console at E3 this month, and without delay the new machine has been dissected and tested. The most dramatic change is the move to a single-chip CPU/GPU hybrid processor that is apparently being built on the 45nm process technology from GlobalFoundries, AMD's spun-off production facilities. With the inclusion of the new processor, the Xbox 360 S uses much less power (about 30-40%) compared to previous generation machines, and also turns out to be much quieter as a result of a single, larger fan. This article has photographic evidence of the teardown, with comparisons between this Valhalla platform and the older Falcon system, along with videos of the reconstruction process and noise comparisons."
The new console also takes measures to protect itself from overheating, so RRoDs shouldn't be a problem with this revision.
The new console also takes measures to protect itself from overheating, so RRoDs shouldn't be a problem with this revision.
They shouldn't have been a problem with any revision.
Its an excellent dissection, i just bought a new elite in march. now ill have to try sell it and get one of these. Just the drop in noise alone makes it worthwhile for me.
I would give everything i own for a little bit more.
It scratches DVDs if you move the console while it's operating, which we all learned not to do at the start of this console generation.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
a teardown to PCB level of a new large revision of a gaming device isnt news for nerds?
Sure /. could have given it a better title, but TFA is actually quite interesting
As for the slim machine, if i didnt already have two 360's, i might consider getting this, less noise and all, but as it is, i have enough gaming hardware.
And still slightly annoyed by the fact that this probably means no new xbox for two more years or so..
People, what a bunch of bastards
This might be considered a stupid question but...
The performance of this version will be the same as before, right?
It doesn't matter how much power it uses if it won't play Mechassault.
If I had the xbox folks to talk to, my line would be "It's the GAMES, stupid!"
When they forewent XBox compatibility, they lost me, really. That whole emulation thing... they didn't follow through. So they can keep their low power box. I'll just keep on keeping on with my old XBox (and the several spares I now have.) I did buy a 360 (because they were promising it would run the old games), but since it in FACT won't play my favorite game, the urge to upgrade it... zero.
When I pay $50 for a game, I expect that to count for something. I'm as annoyed about this as I would be if my bluray player wouldn't play DVDs.
When Sony put the PS2 compatibility in the PS3, they had me, and I bit. When they took it out later, I started collecting a few extras of the older machine cheaply. Same deal. Either respect my investment in software, or piss the hell up a rope. When I spend my money in the used machine market, it does Sony, Microsoft, etc., no good at all. If they want me to purchase a new machine... low power isn't going to do it.
Software, software, software, software. Compatibility. Software! COMPATIBILITY!
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Could it be? How is this possible in this day and age? I am impressed like, eh, like, hm, like yesterday's news. USA has a soccer team?
...for implementing technological improvements.
Just because people have lowered their standards and accept such defects doesn't make them any better.
I've had 6 die and currently have 2, but I'm seriously thinking of upgrading just so it doesn't sound like a jet engine and die in a year.
New Xbox 360 S Uses Less Power, Makes Less Noise
...Has Less Cooling, Still Overheats
Why is it all hardware is set by default to run just barely below the overheat point? It just makes it more likely to die, sitting at those temperatures and then you have to replace it... wait, answered my own question.
Just because people have lowered their standards and accept such defects doesn't make them any better.
Microsoft has upped their standards. Up yours!
I had one of my two 360s (a first version one) die on me, but MS replaced it free of charge, so for now i'm good.
If either of my machines die, i'll consider replacing it with a slim (and selling the old replacement or something..)
People, what a bunch of bastards
I don't understand the problem of your rant. If you want to play XBox software, then you buy an XBox. If you want to play XBox 360 software, then you buy an XBox 360. I understand that people can be a bit disappointed in the fact that the backwards compatibility of the XBox 360 isn't all that MS made it out to be, but since you already appear to have a bunch of old XBoxes lying around, I really don't see the relevance of your rant in the context of this article. MS ain't exactly hurting you with the release of the 360 S.
Not sure if this helps, but apparently the 360 does play MA2:lone wolf, which in the end is just MA with some added features (hi-jacking and such)
If you love MA, just hit up your local gamestore/ebay for a used copy of MA2, it'll also give you a new single player campaign
People, what a bunch of bastards
What do you mean? I want to play my Xbox360 Slim while I'm jogging on my SlimMaster 3000!
NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
I really wonder about this, The sole reason everyone was moving their 360 was because of the gravity orientation on the 'Ring of light' anyway, has anyone ever tried rotating a ps1/ps2/saturn/dreamcast/gamecube/xbox in the same way?
i'd say the disc scratching is a non-issue, sure some pads would be nice, but any carefull gamer wouldnt move a running console around anyway..
People, what a bunch of bastards
Should MS really cover every violation of common sense? I don't really consider this to be a defect - the XBox360 was not designed as a portable platform, and as such there is a reasonable expectation that the unit should never be moved when in operation.
Because customers like their hardware fast, cheap, small, and quiet?
If you make it slow, you barely have to bother cooling it.
If you make it expensive, you can invest in high-quality thermal engineering, loads of heat pipes, and whatever else is necessary.
If you make it big, you can just slap an obnoxiously gigantic heatsink and a couple of 120mm(or larger) fans on it, and it'll be fine.
If you make it loud, the magical world of 15k RPM fans is open to you(y hello thar, 1U servers...).
The fact that Microsoft are pretty much n00bs at hardware certainly didn't help the 360; but the industry-wide trend toward badly undercooled hardware, even wimpy stuff like routers that draw under 10 watts for the whole system and still flake out when it gets warm, can hardly be ascribed to their incompetence.
Less cooling my arse. It has a much larger heat-sink and a proper 120mm fan bolted right on top of it. It's got comparable cooling to my enthusiast desktop. Not to mention the simple, inescapable thermodynamic certainty that a machine that is consuming less electrical power will produce less heat.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Uhhh... I learned not to do that with home CD players. Back in the early 1990s. When cartridges were still the common game format (First PS was 1994).
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
The Xbox 360 we should have got 5 years ago...
It also scratches optical media if you don't move it while they're playing. I have seen this myself, and infer that internal vibration (fan + player itself) is sufficient to cause it. That's with one of the previous revs (purchased late 2008), so I don't know if the new rev is any better.
a) That was a demo model, not a production model.
b) It's a bad idea to move anything that has a spinning disc in it, from harddisks, to dvd-players, whatever.
c) Why would you need to move your console while it's running anyway?
"b) It's a bad idea to move anything that has a spinning disc in it, from harddisks, to dvd-players, whatever."
Portable cd music player and classic iPods have spinning discs and don't suffer from this problem. It is reasonable that a consumer product should be able to get through light abuse, it's 2010, not 1980 and cd technology has evolved, not Microsoft.
a) That was a demo model, not a production model.
I doubt it. The Xbox360 Slim was on sale just days later. It would be pretty retard to use a prototype instead of finished hardware for presentation when the final hardware is ready.
b) It's a bad idea to move anything that has a spinning disc in it, from harddisks, to dvd-players, whatever.
Yeah, so what. Fact remains the Xbox360 is the only console in history that is famous for destroying discs. It was never an issue with any other console, not even with the Xbox1. And Microsoft has known this for the last five years, yet refuses to do anything about it (no, warning sticker doesn't count).
c) Why would you need to move your console while it's running anyway?
It is not about need, it is about stuff that happens in real life use. Cats might bump into it, people might trip over cables or maybe you just bump the console a little while you try to insert a USB connector. Just see the destructoid video, guy wants to get a closer look, lifts it up, Alan Wake goes bye-bye. He shouldn't have done it, but neither should the Xbox360 destroyed the disc.
Since when is moving a unit while a disc is spinning a good idea? I've always assumed such a thing isn't a good plan. At the speeds those discs spin, there is going to be a non-trivial amount of gyroscopic force. Given that with normal DVD drives like you find in desktop computers and DVD players and the 360 the disc just floats on the spindle, movement wouldn't be good.
Now something like a laptop drive is more designed for that sort of thing, it grips the disc directly and has less room for it to move around. Of course there's tradeoffs including a higher cost, and lower speeds. However even then I try to keep the thing sitting still when it is reading something.
Just because something can't resist any and everything doesn't mean it has a "defect". There are real physical issues you have to contend with. My car won't survive a 40mph impact with a wall, it will crumple to the point it is destroyed. However, it isn't defective (in fact it is designed to fail so that the bodies inside it do not).
the XBox360 was not designed as a portable platform
A lot of platforms that aren't ostensibly portable get used as such. Case in point: a game console run off an inverter in a minivan or RV for 3-hour road trips. These subject a machine to whatever road vibration the suspension doesn't absorb.
But did Microsoft take support for XNA Creators Club out of the Xbox 360 S the way Sony took support for Linux out of the slim PS2 and took support for Other OS out of the slim PS3?
The thing is both Nintendo and Sony managed to pull off backward compatibility with the Wii and PS3. (Well ok, it got dumped from the PS3 later on but it was there at first.) Plus it is more convenient to play them on the 360 for a number of reasons. For one I generally don't have my Xbox hooked up because I have no room to do that. (It was pretty huge and they didn't make the top flat so you can't put it in a stack of consoles. If they had just made the system flat on top I'd probably have my XBox hooked up right now.) Plus on top of that when I play an old game on the 360 it gets upscaled and I have the cables for HD play. With the XBox I don't even have component cables. (Mostly because I didn't get an HD TV until after I got my 360 so I never got around to it.) Anyway it would have been nice if I could play all my old XBox games on the 360. (Since that upscaling does make it look a bit nicer.)
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
Because customers like their hardware fast, cheap, small, and quiet?
Indeed, the ideal woman.
The earlier models (at least mine did, spring 06) scratched discs even when stationary.
Then again, my Xbox went wrong at about any component, including a broken harddisk (it clicks when you insert it, xbox refuses to boot when its inserted with an e68, now using a 16GB flash drive as harddisk), a red ring of death that appeared about 3 years ago, and went away about three months later, and it scratched my Halo 3 disk for no obvious reason at all (standing vertically on a shock-free cabinet). Also produces graphic artifacts sometimes when its > 20 degrees Celcius (general garbage in rendertargets, models being drawn where some vertices are at random places), so that has something to indicate that the cooling isn't all that great. Along with that that the xbox in combination with my TV consume more then 350 Watts.
Then again, I bought it from a friend for cheap, and the only things I really do with it is dick around in GTA4, so I'm not too worried if this thing goes tits up, since then I can replace it with one of those new ones, which has HDMI, is smaller, uses less space, uses less power and has more room on its harddrive.
My friend moved his 360 while Gears of War was running and it left a huge gash in the disc. He tried playing the game and could only play multiplayer, so he gave it the toothpaste treatment. After that, he could only play single player. Toothpaste again, only multiplayer. After that, he had to toothpaste it depending what he felt like playing.
I was only 28,931 registrations away from having a 6-digit UID
I have around 170 retail XBox 360 games, I've had 4 XBox's due to 3 RROD failures in the early years. I've had my dog knock my console over whilst playing once or twice and have knocked it over myself once and since moved it and placed it horizontally.
Through all this I've yet to have a single disc scratch. I suspect to get disc scratching you have to go through some quite speciifc motions, which seems to be what happens in this video- a quick abrupt shake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdOjzuJByXg
I also suspect that it's something that effects many DVD drives in general as there's nothing specific about the XBox 360's, only most people don't tend to give their DVD player or PC an abrubpt shake.
Just as most people have learnt that putting a device like a mobile phone or an iPod in your pocket along with your keys (the screen will get scratched) is a bad idea, I think this is probably one of those problems that just requires a bit of common sense to solve.
Certainly with all the general wear and tear my 4 XBoxs have faced and the amount of discs that have been through them, the amount of usage they've had, although the RROD has been a frustrating problem until the latest one which seems fine now at around 2 years old, disc scratching has been an absolute non-issue.
If only they had done that the first time......
Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
My iPod touch, Motorola Milestone, and even my old second-gen iPod nano say you're completely wrong about that. Sure, the body of the iPods gets horribly worn, but the screen? Hell no. It's all about the hardness.
I'm impressed with the clever solution they had to this: replace the red LEDs with green ones. Guaranteed, no more red ring of death. Just don't ask about the green ring of death.
This was pretty much solved when they gave the ability to run off the HD. which also for the most part solved the noise issue as well.
My 3 year old nokia however, would disagree (so the mobile phone thing is valid)
Sure the ipod screen might be hard enough, but i just dont feel like risking it...
as for the back side, OMFG, within a week my ipod touch went from mirror finish to sanded glass... it looks awefull (and i bet its just a ploy to sell as much pouches/purses/sleeves as they can to the "oh shiney" crowd)
People, what a bunch of bastards
It is not about need, it is about stuff that happens in real life use. Cats might bump into it, people might trip over cables or maybe you just bump the console a little while you try to insert a USB connector. Just see the destructoid video, guy wants to get a closer look, lifts it up, Alan Wake goes bye-bye. He shouldn't have done it, but neither should the Xbox360 destroyed the disc.
If you lift a console up whilst a disc is spinning inside it then no-one is at fault other than the person who lifted it. No discs are getting scratched from people bumping their console slightly either.
I put my books on Amazon, Smashwords, Demonoid, ISOHunt and Pirate Bay. Search for 'Michael Cargill'
Do you have to be a masochist to own a 360 or something? I mean I usually hate all the fanboy one-upping and such, but in all seriousness, why would you even put up with that kind of shit?
The only reason I started buying consoles was to get away from Microsoft software (Windows gaming is great, as long as you can put up with Windows). To then subject yourself to both MS hardware and software seems like lunacy to me.
which is totally what she said
Too many people don't understand the simple physics of what's involved in scratching something. Things can only get scratched if the item doing the scratching is harder than the item being scratched (look up Mohs hardness scale). Things like tempered glass are pretty fucking hard, and it takes quite a bit to scratch them. (Of course, this doesn't factor in impact trauma, which is a different beast.) I get a huge kick out of people claiming that their CDs/DVDs were scratched by paper sleeves/cases or other relatively 'soft' items. It's simply not possible, unless you managed to get some dirt or grit or something between the two.
What are you talking about? I've had the same console since six months post launch and it plays games just fine. I'm guessing you either have a faulty box, or more likely, you like to do a little trolling in your off time.
Uhh, my 4 year old Xbox360 plays RDR just fine. Not sure what's your problem, but it's definitely not an "older xboxes don't play newer games" thing.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yah well, they may call the newer XBox 360's -' XBox 360's' but they aren't the same and the games being made now aren't the same either - I have an older XBox 360 and it flat out won't play the newer games.
Umm... what? I would really like to know what games your XBox 360 won't play, because I have an original Arcade (replacement for the Core system) as well as a newer but still discontinued Pro (just 2 years old) and both of them play every game I've tried recently without issue. Not to flame you or anything, but you really should cite not only what model/revision of 360 you have as well as what games it will not play, and what it does instead of playing them.
~jaraxle
Isn't the 360 something like 5 years old? Rather than releasing a new console, they just put a new face on it? Oh, and FINALLY managed to fix a problem that was nearly bricking every machine. Pathetic.
If you design a console to sit vertically, it ought to be able to withstand being toppled.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I find this a bit surprising as I had one of the old Pro models (20Gb) that was playing modern games (i.e. Red Dead Redemption) with no problems. Granted I did upgrade to the Xbox 360 S but that primary because the new S model is quite compelling in terms of the 250 Gb hard drive and wireless built-in when you are almost out of hard drive space and are looking to cleanup the pile of cables by the TV.
I've seen absolutely no indication whatsoever of anything that backs up your claims (in fact, the game you mention came out before the 360 S, and the Wikipedia article on the topic doesn't contain any instances of the word "Slim"). Older revisions of the 360 are more prone to overheating, don't have built-in WiFi, and may have different ports - for example, the oldest models lack an HDMI port - but their CPUs and GPUs execute the same code at the same speed, they have the same amount of RAM, and they run the same OS* as the new Slim model. Kinect works just fine on older consoles. The new console may look different, but it runs exactly the same games.
* I'm assuming you keep your console's OS up to date, typically done via the Internet but I believe it's possible with a DVD as well. Unless you've modded your console, the update process is completely trivial. If you *have* modded it, they *you* are the one with the XBox 365 (or perhaps 355), not "Microcrap" (as you so very maturely refer to the company whose product you chose to purchase).
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
The XBox 360 S will play every single XBox 360 game out there. It'll even play some of the older original XBox games.
Perhaps you've been telling everybody you had an XBox 360, when in fact you only have the original XBox. That was an entirely different system.
Bill
It's my Sig and you can't have it. Mine! All Mine!
You can do what the guy in this video does with his GameCube. Yes, I have high standards.
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
Well, for one, there are the exclusive titles. For some people the fact that the Xbox was the only choice for Halo might have done it. And I've also personally found Forza to be another good exclusive. That's basically what sells me on a console or not, is there enough exclusives to justify it. Everyone is going to have a different threshold on that. Maybe it's not a fair comparison because I didn't go with the Xbox 360 as the only system. I got in on it by the time their revision included the built in HDMI port, and haven't had any hardware issues with it.
It could also be a social thing. If your friends are getting Xbox'en then even if the titles are available on the PS3, they are typically hosted on separate servers, so you need to be using the same console.
Fear is the mind killer.
You know, I try to avoid moving my computer while there's a disc spinning in the drive, too. It's just common sense.
You realise iPod nanos specifically were notorious for screen scratches, so much so that Apple owned up to it and had to pay out a $22.5million settlement? -
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10149328-37.html
Sure not all device screens scratch easily, but the problem is you don't know which ones do until it's too late and you've scratched it, and as some quite blatantly do (you're welcome to do more Google searches yourself to find plenty of evidence to that effect) you've got to be quite stupid to risk it.
I suspect to get disc scratching you have to go through some quite speciifc motions, which seems to be what happens in this video- a quick abrupt shake:
I suspect it is simply is the direction in which you move it. One way will tilt your disc away from what scratch it, the other will move it right into it.
Pshaw! Flimflam! I piss on your silly laws of thermodynamics!
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Why the hell are you moving the console while the disc is spinning? What could possibly make you think that's a good idea?!
Parent is funnier if you read it with the "Ralph Wiggum" voice.
My TV sits vertically and I don't want to see what happens if it topples.
That's the Only reason I bought a 360. I had a PS3 already, but I wanted to get some gaming done with my local friends. All the folks with whom I played PC games had moved 2 time zones away and it was hard to schedule gaming time. All the local people had 360s and were playing Halo 3 and Gears of War. Before that I never would have considered playing an FPS on a console.
It turns out I have a lot of fun with the 360 and play on it by myself as much as I do on the PS3. I've learned not to be a snob when it comes to consoles because the only person losing out would be me.
Do you have to be a masochist to own a 360 or something? I mean I usually hate all the fanboy one-upping and such, but in all seriousness, why would you even put up with that kind of shit?
"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for."
— Bob Marley
Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
It scratches DVDs if you move the console while it's operating
It also has a tendency to scratch discs without moving the console. It usually happens when the dvd drive is starting to fail (pretty common). I've lost a game to this problem, and I know many other that have as well.
I'm aware of all those reasons, but none of them are enough to sell me on the idea. If I wanted a nice social experience, I'd stick with Windows. Pretty much everyone has a Windows PC. Likewise a lot of "XBox only" titles have ended up coming out for Windows too.. and at least if you do it that way you get to choose the quality of your hardware.
It's good that they've finally sorted out the 360 issues, but I just don't really trust MS to do a good job of anything. They do have the odd decent product around (and ~10 years ago they used to have some cracking games for Windows with Midtown Madness, Mech Warrior etc), and I've been able to tolerate them in the working world since XP came out, but after Vista and the 360 RRoD problems, they've gone back to being a joke in my eyes. For me to buy an MS console they'd have to execute the whole thing flawlessly and provide a much better incentive than Halo (seriously, I'd rather play Quake I/II multiplayer, even without mods).
which is totally what she said
I'm 2 years running into my 20 gig Xbox 360 unit. I really wish Microsoft would reduce the hard drive add-on prices to more realistic levels. The casing around the HD can't cost THAT much. It would almost be better to just buy the new slim unit(that has over 10 times the hard drive space I have) than to buy the 250 gig drive alone.
I could buy a 1 terabyte drive for my system for less than they charge for a 120 gig unit.
And Microsoft are the ones worth suffering for? Methinks the world has developed a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome..
which is totally what she said
Well, yes, that helps, but you still need the disk to be recognized in order to play it. I've seen Fable 2, Assassins Creed 2, and one other game go bad due to scratches. It's not the environment, since the xbox360 always sits horizontally on a very sturdy piece of furniture, which itself rests on carpeting. The only other electronics on this large piece are a cable modem, wireless router, DVD player, and LCD TV. The only possible source of external vibration would be the DVD player, and it is never used while the Xbox is on plus it's fairly far removed. So, it's the xbox, not abuse.
I've owned my XBox 360 for almost 3 years now and I've never had it fail on me or so much as even crash. I dunno what if I'm doing things right or other people are doing things wrong...
If you lift a console up whilst a disc is spinning inside it then no-one is at fault other than the person who lifted it.
Name another console that scratches discs . If its so common sense and totally to be expected that discs get scratched that shouldn't be to hard, right?
No discs are getting scratched from people bumping their console slightly either.
And your argument is based on what data? Some earlier Xbox360 models scratched discs even when the console was not moved at all, so I wouldn't exactly trust that a disc-scratching Slim would not scratch discs on minor bumps.
Not to nitpick, but loss to heat is a percentage that varies from device to device. It's theoretically possible for a device that uses less electricity to run a lot hotter.
Disclaimer: I own gaming consoles from many different companies (Atari, Sega, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, etc), and although I use Windows 7 on my gaming rig, I have Ubuntu running on everything else.
but after Vista and the 360 RRoD problems, they've gone back to being a joke in my eyes
That's a shame. Windows 7 and everything from the Falcon revision or later for the 360 have been solid, well-made products. For me, the 360 was worth it for a few reasons:
1. Exclusives. There are some Xbox Live Arcade exclusives ('Splosion Man, Trials HD, and Shadow Complex alone are almost worth the price of the console) and some retail exclusives (Fable II and soon III, the Crackdown series, Chromehounds, Dead Rising, etc.)
2. The controller. I know that the dual shock is considered to be the "pinnacle" of controller design...but fuck that. I've always found it to be a bit awkward to hold, and slightly too small. The 360 controller is, aside from the horrendous d-pad, just about perfect. YMMV, of course.
3. This no longer applies, but keep in mind that the 360 was the first 7th gen console that was released, and ushered in a new era in complexity for consoles (admittedly, complexity that we PC gamers had enjoyed for nearly a decade, but still...it was exciting.) My time spent with friends when the 360 first launched are some great memories, so even though the console is only five years old, I already have nostalgia associated with it.
Living With a Nerd
Because it's worth the hassle. XBox Live is so far above the network gaming offerings from the PS3, Wii, and PC (yes, and PC) that it isn't even funny. My friends and family love the party feature, even spread out over some states we can all get together and have a fun time o' gaming that isn't restricted to one game. You can even use the feature to watch movies together, but we've never used that.
Good gravy man, are we talking about *tigers* bumping into the console or do you have it resting on some kind of frictionless surface?
For some people the fact that the Xbox was the only choice for Halo might have done it.
Yep. That's one reason I didn't buy a 360.
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
b) It's a bad idea to move anything that has a spinning disc in it, from harddisks, to dvd-players, whatever.
Yeah, so what. Fact remains the Xbox360 is the only console in history that is famous for destroying discs. It was never an issue with any other console, not even with the Xbox1. And Microsoft has known this for the last five years, yet refuses to do anything about it (no, warning sticker doesn't count).
Actually, there's a better reason to not do anything. The model of drive they use is significantly faster to read data than other more stable models. And since the specs of the system can't change (including data read times for games), then if all other drives are slower, then it can't be changed.
While it still sucks that you can scratch a disc, what i'd prefer to see is an explicit "do you want to copy this to the hard drive" the first time a disc goes in rather than having it hidden away in a menu that some people still don't know exists.
Because when we had high power computers that continued to cool to their best effort, people complained about how noisy they were. By the time you add 3-4 cooling fans and have them running at full power, things get quite noisy. So, you have to use some sort of tradeoff. From the perspective of a console maker, why not run it at some high temperature like 85C? If you have confidence that you can keep it from getting to 95C (or wherever is dangerous), running at a single temperature seems to have the least number of physical stresses. Additionally, at 85C, when you have an ambient of 30C or less, that amount of thermal delta means you can dissipate a lot of power with only a little air flow.
Famous? Yeah, that'd be the 360's cross to bear. The only one? I have a few destroyed PS2 discs that would like to have a word with you.
1) I remember reading about Fable or Fable II a few years ago and thought it sounded good. Didn't realise it was XBox exclusive though.
2) I've grown up with PS controllers so I'm obviously biased that way, but I've never enjoyed stuff like the N64 and Xbox controller (they're both very similar IMO). I've never had any issues with the playstation controllers (apart from once getting blisters while playing Dynasty Warriors!), always found them to be nice and comfortable even when playing for over 13 hours straight (Uncharted 2).
3. Not a great excuse, as you say PCs have been able to keep cool for much longer.
I didn't realise it's been 5 years already for the 360 - the time has flown by! I still don't feel we're extracting the full potential out of this current gen though - the new input systems and stereo 3D capabilities are going to be a lot of fun :) I suppose another console generation will be necessary for nice high res, high framerate 3D on truly complex scenes, though we're almost at photorealistic level already with the current generation.. so I expect the next couple of gens will have an even longer time scale unless the console makers come out with more gimmicks that truly require a main unit upgrade. Look at how many people are still happy with the PS2 and Wii level of graphics..
which is totally what she said
Interestingly enough, the GameCube seems to handle the bounce from walking just fine when tethered to a waist belt. I somehow think the Wii would also handle being toppled better than both the PS3 and the XBox360 thanks to the style drive it uses. I may be wrong though.
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
Indeed. If you design a building to sit vertically, it ought to be able to withstand being toppled.
That's actually half-accurate. Microsoft was first to market with a lot of the techniques that will lock users into a platform. Namely, XBox Live. You can put up with a lot, as long as it's more of a hassle to go somewhere else.
Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
This is why I tend to play online FPS games with people from a specific community rather than limiting it to just people I know in real life.
Specifically, I play Team Fortress 2 with people from the OCReMix community. OCR has two TF2 servers: blu.ocrtf2.com and red.ocrtf2.com, named after the two teams in TF2.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
has anyone ever tried rotating a ps1/ps2/saturn/dreamcast/gamecube/xbox in the same way?
The early generation PlayStation1 had an overheating issue with the GPU, the "recommend" workaround was turning the whole console upside down. Yet I never heard of a scratching issue on that machine. For the Playstation3 one can find this video, no scratching and the console is handled pretty brutally. And there is also this video showing a Xbox360 with rubber pads installed, no scratching after the mod.
The simple fact is that you can find dozens of videos of Xbox360 destroying discs on Youtube, but finding videos of other consoles doing the same turns out to be pretty damn hard, so far I haven't even seen a single one.
1) I remember reading about Fable or Fable II a few years ago and thought it sounded good. Didn't realise it was XBox exclusive though.
Fable I eventually made it to the PC. There are rumblings that Fable II is on its way to the PC as well, although nothing official has been announced. For now, Fable II remains a 360 exclusive.
2) I've grown up with PS controllers so I'm obviously biased that way, but I've never enjoyed stuff like the N64 and Xbox controller (they're both very similar IMO). I've never had any issues with the playstation controllers (apart from once getting blisters while playing Dynasty Warriors!), always found them to be nice and comfortable even when playing for over 13 hours straight (Uncharted 2).
I grew up with Commmodore 64 keyboards and Atari/NES controllers...so yeah :-)
I don't really see how an N64 controller and a Xbox controller are similar...they're about as similar as a an Atari controller and this monstrosity.
3. Not a great excuse, as you say PCs have been able to keep cool for much longer.
I said nothing of cooling or hardware...I said complexity, in reference to overall game design, control schemes, and general gameplay.
I didn't realise it's been 5 years already for the 360 - the time has flown by! I still don't feel we're extracting the full potential out of this current gen though - the new input systems and stereo 3D capabilities are going to be a lot of fun :)
Not by a long shot! Every year, games that are coming out for the consoles are still getting better and better. Unfortunately though, they are kind of holding back development on the PC gaming front. The hardware in modern consoles really lags behind what is available on the PC, and I think this puts a huge damper (graphically and computationally) on multi-platform games.
I suppose another console generation will be necessary for nice high res, high framerate 3D on truly complex scenes, though we're almost at photorealistic level already with the current generation
People used to say the same thing about the SNES :-) Trust me, we have a long way to go before we approach truly life-like visuals in video games.
so I expect the next couple of gens will have an even longer time scale unless the console makers come out with more gimmicks that truly require a main unit upgrade. Look at how many people are still happy with the PS2 and Wii level of graphics..
While I'm a sucker for great graphics as much as the next guy, I still care far more about gameplay. In some cases, graphics add to the gameplay, and in some cases they are just eye candy. Regardless, as long as something is fun, I don't care if it's just squars (Atari) or 65 gazillion colors with hyper-realistic curvatures (uh...nothing): I primarily care that a game is fun to play.
Let me also take this time to say that, as a long-time gamer (26 years old, so I've been gaming for 22 years at this point), if you can afford it, don't lock yourself out of buying a console because it's from a "rival company" or whatever...games are games. It doesn't matter what console they appear on, all that matters is that they are fun.
As Jeremy from Pure Pwnage once said, "You put a mouse in my hand, or a controller, or an arcade stick, it doesn't matter...the end result is gonna be the same."
Living With a Nerd
If by strategy you mean "trying to get tax discounts in the EU and failing," then yes.
You're confusing Other OS on the PS3 with Basic on the PS2. As I understand it, Other OS was there to get developers familiar with the Cell architecture, which Sony planned to use in all sorts of consumer electronics devices. Cell's seven integrated DSPs were supposed to be the future of signal processing until someone figured out how to "abuse" the GPU to act as a generic DSP. This led to CUDA and eventually OpenCL, the decline of Cell, and no more need for Other OS.
I suppose I meant that as far as consoles were concerned I grew up with the PSX. We weren't allowed a console before that (since they were games only devices and our dad liked us to have stuff that was at least slightly educational). So I mostly grew up with Amigas.. now I think about it I used to use a Mega Drive controller in my Amiga. Before that we had a Commodore 128 as well with a little joystick.
I guess I think of the N64 and Xbox controllers as bad because of their layout of the analog sticks. I actually thought the Xbox one had a centrally mounted analog stick as well until I looked it up just now (despite using one a couple of times).
Oh yeah I definitely value gameplay above graphics, for example I recently got 3D Dot Game Heroes which purposefully emulates the oldskool 2D RPG style (but in 3D), I just also like the wow factor I get when diving out of a plane in Just Cause 2 and looking at the island below me - it really does look amazingly real.
26 here as well, so likewise I've probably been gaming for 22-23 years, but I guess I just took a different path :P I bought a Wii and a PS3 in this generation, but the Wii stopped getting used as soon as I had the PS3 so I just left it at my mum's house one Christmas.
I've mellowed towards MS somewhat since I entered the professional world, but I still don't want to encourage them too much. They really have to earn it if they want me as a customer again ;)
which is totally what she said
Not to mention the simple, inescapable thermodynamic certainty that a machine that is consuming less electrical power will produce less heat.
My wife's hairdryer consumes less electrical power than a 360 and still runs hotter. ;)
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
I suppose I meant that as far as consoles were concerned I grew up with the PSX. We weren't allowed a console before that (since they were games only devices and our dad liked us to have stuff that was at least slightly educational). So I mostly grew up with Amigas.. now I think about it I used to use a Mega Drive controller in my Amiga. Before that we had a Commodore 128 as well with a little joystick.
My parents thought of any video game as a learning tool, insofar as hand-eye coordination, problem solving, and quick thinking were concerned. We already loved playing outside and being physically active, so they saw no reason we shouldn't flex our minds as well.
I guess I think of the N64 and Xbox controllers as bad because of their layout of the analog sticks. I actually thought the Xbox one had a centrally mounted analog stick as well until I looked it up just now (despite using one a couple of times).
Nope, they're extremely different:-) On top of that, the Xbox 360 controller is far superior to the original Xbox controller in pretty much every way (except that near-useless D-pad. Grr.)
Oh yeah I definitely value gameplay above graphics, for example I recently got 3D Dot Game Heroes which purposefully emulates the oldskool 2D RPG style (but in 3D), I just also like the wow factor I get when diving out of a plane in Just Cause 2 and looking at the island below me - it really does look amazingly real.
OOOOO I've been wanting to pick up 3D Dot Game Heroes, it looked pretty bad-ass. Glad to hear it's worth buying.
26 here as well, so likewise I've probably been gaming for 22-23 years, but I guess I just took a different path :P
Between my fiancee and I, we have the following:
Atari 2600, NES (boxy and toploader), Genesis, two SNES, N64, PSOne, Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, Xbox, Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, Game Gear, two Game Boys (the originals), two Game Boy Advance SP, two Nintendo DS Lites, a fairly up-to-date gaming desktop, a slightly out of date gaming-capable laptop, and some of those older Tiger Electronics LCD handhelds. We take our gaming seriously :-)
I bought a Wii and a PS3 in this generation, but the Wii stopped getting used as soon as I had the PS3 so I just left it at my mum's house one Christmas.
Oofa, bad choice :/ There are a LOT of awesome Wii games. Aside from the standard Smash Bros. Brawl and Mario Galaxy games, there's also Madworld, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, the House of the Dead ports, House of the Dead: Overkill, Dead Space: Extraction, Metroid Prime Trilogy, and plenty more. Hell, Madworld and Muramasa: The Demon Blade ALONE make it worth buying a Wii.
We also dig all the cooking games out there, like Cooking Mama, Order Up, etc; they're lot of fun to play when downing some Jäger shots :-)
Living With a Nerd
For what platform should an indie developer make a local-multiplayer video game?
Phone
Perhaps I wasn't clear. By "local multiplayer" I was referring to a scenario like fighting games, Bomberman series, and Mario Party series, which let multiple players connect gamepads to a single machine displaying a single view of all characters on a single TV-size monitor. Handhelds require one machine for each player, as do most native PC games, which assume a LAN or Internet play environment. A machine for each player is ideal for FPS and RTS but not for, say, fighting games.
That is of course assuming you don't want to make a PC game for whatever reason.
A PC with a suitably large monitor is called a home theater PC (HTPC). Though a PC easily supports four Xbox 360-style gamepads through a USB hub, some other Slashdot users seem to think there aren't enough HTPCs to support a market for HTPC-specific games. Someone else recommended making a feature-complete prototype for HTPC, not trying to sell it, and then trying to negotiate with every publisher that has released a console game in the same genre in the past couple years in hope of getting an offer to work on a console port of the game that will actually get sold.
they lost a few billion building, supporting, and marketing the 360 so considering they are just now starting to generate positive cashflow from the product, it'll be a few years before they can drop a few billion again. It doesn't help that with their income tied to the PC and the PC very tied to the recession, pulling a few billion out right now won't help them look any better on Wall Street.
;-)
I'm surprised its taken them so long to move from 65nm to 45nm since even ARM chips are doing 45nm now and Intel is already into the 32nm space. And going from 65nm to 45nm is a 29% change so that alone accounts for most of the drop in power consumption and my guess is that the original GPU was probably already at 45nm or there probably would have been more than upto 10% saved by moving to 45nm and combining.
You got it, probably another 2+ years in the current version of the 360 unless the PS3 and 3D really start pulling customers away and the current 360 can't keep up. They'll have to invest to keep the market share at that point so there is some hope that it won't be more than 2 years.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Because it's worth the hassle. XBox Live is so far above the network gaming offerings from the PS3, Wii, and PC (yes, and PC) that it isn't even funny. My friends and family love the party feature, even spread out over some states we can all get together and have a fun time o' gaming that isn't restricted to one game. You can even use the feature to watch movies together, but we've never used that.
Obvious Fanboi Troll is Obvious
________________________________ ___ _________ __ _______ _ ____ __ _ __ Darknight / _ \___ ____
I've had mine for over four years and about a month and a half ago I got the dreaded RROD. The only thing I've noticed I do differently as compared to friends is I never had it sit vertically. It was always sitting flat.
A friend of mine is on his twentieth xbox. All RROD. Of course, he plays it a hell of a lot more than I do, but still... that's getting ridiculous.
Name another console that scratches discs . If its so common sense and totally to be expected that discs get scratched that shouldn't be to hard, right?
Any device with a spinning disc inside is liable to scratch the discs if it is moved.
And your argument is based on what data? Some earlier Xbox360 models scratched discs even when the console was not moved at all, so I wouldn't exactly trust that a disc-scratching Slim would not scratch discs on minor bumps.
And your argument is based on what data?
I put my books on Amazon, Smashwords, Demonoid, ISOHunt and Pirate Bay. Search for 'Michael Cargill'
I didn't realize 360's were meant to be portable. :P
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
I've had the Xenon (original), a Falcon (replacement for the Xenon when it RROD'd) and a Jasper based xbox. Each was successively quieter, cooler and drew less power.
But why did they do the Slim comparison with the 2+ year old Falcon platform and not the current Jasper? I find the Jasper to be almost imperceptibly quiet and my power testing puts it very close to the ~100 watts that this article shows the Slim pulling.
Given the price drops, I think you're better off buying a Jasper based Arcade for $100 at current sale pricing, and following one of the many available guides for hacking your own 250gb drive. I made a 250gb drive from a $45 western digital drive, the case from a broken microsoft 20gb hard drive, and about 10 minutes of my time hooking the drive up to a pc and writing a new bit of firmware to the drive.
250GB Jasper based system for ~$150. Why pay more.
As far as people who've had problems with scratched disks and others who havent, there have been a half dozen dvd drives used in the xbox. Some models had no protection to hold the disk in place, some used a piece of material stuck in place that would prevent a disk from hopping out of the tray if you moved the system, and some had a tray that actually prevented the disk from moving. So its natural that some people have had problems and others havent...the latter simply had a different model of the xbox.
b) It's a bad idea to move anything that has a spinning disc in it, from harddisks, to dvd-players, whatever.
Yeah, so what. Fact remains the Xbox360 is the only console in history that is famous for destroying discs. It was never an issue with any other console, not even with the Xbox1.
Really? I was unaware that a study was conducted on the PS2 and Wii (the only disc-based consoles that I am aware of where vertical* orientation was not only possible, it was practically encouraged) that showed that bumping them or moving them around was less fatal to discs than doing the same with a 360.
*Limited to vertical oriented consoles since I've only heard of discs getting scratched when the 360 was oriented vertically.
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
There's no part of this that isn't a lie.
For some people the fact that the Xbox was the only choice for Halo might have done it.
Yep. That's one reason I didn't buy a 360.
One thing I've never understood is how a console having a certian game can play a part in making you not want to buy it.
I did a quick search of PS3 , 360, and Wii exclusives. There is alot that I would HATE on each console and a few that I would love on each one as well.
If someone could explain why OP could could hate X360 for being the only console that has Halo while it also is the only console that has Ninga Gaiden II, Fable, and Mass Effect I will feel satisfied.
p.s. I do understand how a console not having a certian game can play a part in your decision but not the other way around
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
I dunno what if I'm doing things right or other people are doing things wrong...
Would've modded you insightful if you gave a few tips on how not to get the RROD. I've had at least 2 or 3 seperate systems, and I get the impression my current XBOX is on the way out. I have all three current gen systems, love my 360 though for one feature: XBox Live.
I was more implying (evidently not very well) my dislike for Halo and, by association the 360. It's got to be one of the most overrated games out there.
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
The only time I get an RROD with my launch box is when I don't plug the PS in far enough. Scared me the first time. Also, the thing is noisy as all hell now, probably could get a "Slim"
Yeah I had SSB on pre-order but cancelled it when I got rid of the Wii. I've played it at someone's house since then and didn't really get it (of course, none of us knew the controls and we were a bit drunk, so it was pretty much button bashing all the way) - I think out of that list the only games I would buy are Mario Galaxy and Metroid (really enjoyed that on the DS, though again the DS was one I ended up giving to my sister because I was only using it while on holiday).
The best gaming year of my life was my last year of Uni where I pretty much stayed up every night playing CS/DoD/other-HL-mods and MUDding :p Since them I've just not really made time for consistent gaming, though I do have the occasional month where I'll really get into something, but then the next month I'll be watching DVDs, etc.
I've recently found myself spending more of my free time experiencing the ultimate in graphics and physics engines.. real life :p Started going to the gym last year and I started doing Parkour around 5 weeks ago.. Assassin's Creed and Mirror's Edge are fun, but learning to do all that stuff for real is even moreso, and then means that you can pretty much play games anywhere, for free, whether you have a console with you or not. Of course I have had random girls shout "WHAT ARE YOU DOING? D: " at me as if I was about to die while Kong vaulting a rail, but that just adds to the fun xD
which is totally what she said
Microsoft is a true innovator in the field of error communication, first the BSOD, then RROD, now GROD?
The only thing I can think of that comes close to their market penetration is the 404.
Only if it includes a "don't ask me this in the future" response. I don't want to be asked to install a rental game I'll keep for a week at most.
The movement required to scratch discs is perpendicular to the rotation of the disc. Moving the system through the rotation plane of the disc dictates that conservation of angular momentum applies parity force, causing the flexible disc to strike the read head. The Xbox' DVD drive is 12x speed, 7000ish rpm, so there is a substantial amount of energy. Watching the videos you see the system is often jerked into the upgright position or layed down. This movement is perpendicular to the rotation of the disc.
Same here, got mine a few years ago and its held up smashingly. its darn close to an all-in-one solution and halfway to an HTPC with netflix and my computer connected to it.
The new model is excellent, and I wish I was in the market for a game console because the improvements made are definitely selling points to anyone looking to switch systems or (for some other reason) is just now ready to buy a 360.
While I would love a quieter system, I cannot justify purchasing what is essentially the same system over... now if they had added blu-ray I would jump at this. I am a big fan of multipurpose devices and if I could have Xbox 360 and Blu-ray, that would be awesome... I'm not shelling out for a PS3 since I'd have to buy a bunch of games over and I wouldn't be able to play games with my friends on XBL.
Just as most people have learnt that putting a device like a mobile phone or an iPod in your pocket along with your keys (the screen will get scratched) is a bad idea
What the hell? So thats how this has been happening?
Not exactly, there are a lot of ways a device could consume less electricity yet produce more heat. It might waste less energy as sound yet waste more as heat.
Really? I was unaware that a study was conducted on the PS2 and Wii
If you find an endless number of videos, photos, blog and forums posts and what not for Xbox360 disc scratch issues and zero for other consoles, then I think it is safe to assume that its a bigger issue on Xbox360 then on any other consoles, especially considering that PS2 and Wii have sold a lot more units then Xbox360.
Any device with a spinning disc inside is liable to scratch the discs if it is moved.
Name one and show me a video and I might believe that. So far you have brought zero evidence to the table.
And your argument is based on what data?
A lawsuit, consumer org investigations and a whole bunch of Youtube videos.
I was more implying (evidently not very well) my dislike for Halo
*shrug* ok. I mean, I like Halo, but everyone is welcome to their opinion.
and, by association the 360.
Wait, what? I don't follow this logic. That makes only slightly more sense than if I said something like "I dislike American Idol and by association, DVD players" The Xbox is a platform for playing games. No one will make you buy Halo just for owning an Xbox. And it's not exactly as if Halo and Xbox are synonymous. In all the years the 360 has been available, there have been 3 games released with the Halo branding as far as I know: Halo 3, Halo Wars, and Halo 3: ODST. Of those three, the only that could be remotely considered a flagship title is Halo 3 and that was released almost 3 years ago.
It's got to be one of the most overrated games out there.
Another thing I've never understood. Overrated just means that it isn't as good as the common consensus says it is. That doesn't make it bad. I mean there are waaaay worse games than Halo on all three of the consoles (take any movie tie-in for example). Why should Halo be the game that earns your ire? Does it really annoy you so much that other people like it?
The baseline PC has less performance than an xbox 360, in both CPU and GPU, so if you want to point the finger point it at no compelling reason to upgrade your PC. Console innovation is what really drives performance, for instance the unified shaders which launched the Nvidia 8800GT's generations stunning performance was an innovation developed by ATI for the Xbox 360.
I can completely understand this. Its a brand association thing.
[not to troll] Personally I hate, and do not purchase products from, Apple("It just works" with all the hipsters being deutsch bags), Old Navy(Old lady and gay dudes frolicking around), as well as any other company whose ad campaigns I deam annoying enough not to purchase their products.
c) Why would you need to move it while running:
1. Mom/roommate spontaneously wants to vacuum
2. Cat/Dog/baby pulls the cord (of a corded controller) or knocks it over if vertically oriented.
3. Dumb-as-rocks friend kicks the entire table/cabinet it's in
4. You throw the controller at it out of frustration
#2 frequently happened with cats with the NES and the SNES, so at that point it was decided to put the console on the table and use extension cords to the TV, because the cat would always try to attack the moving controller cables. With cordless controllers, now that problem goes away.
I don't know about the inner workings (and am evidently too lazy to go look), but, externally, the Wii and PS3 drives operate in the same way (think car stereo). And neither operates like the gamecube, where you pop the disc down securely. And the gamecube discs are smaller too, which should further help a bit.
Hmmm, well, it's not an issue on *my* Xbox360 (or the one before it) or any of the ones ever owned by people I know, and after years of gaming on the 360, this thread is the first I've heard of it. Sure, none of that is statistically significant but it does seriously influence how much I care about this issue.
Oh, and for that matter, I was a gamefly member for over a year and I didn't notice that the Xbox 360 games I rented were any more or less scratched up than the PS3 or PS2 games I rented (though in the case of the PS2 games, you'd expect them to be older)
Other issues I'll grant. Two of my friends have experienced RROD and I've personally experienced a bug with the video out. But this one is news to me
On my boathouse, if the swell hits me broadsided then it could cause discs to skip if ever they were playing. I've hosted much of my electronics equipment on hoists with dampers just to mediate between the shift of gravity and it's only helped with the gradual shifts.
BTW, this is a big Deep-V boathouse, not a square or flat Houseboat. Please be distracted from the size of my penis. :-)
No red ring == no red ring of death!
We just get a green dot of death now, but RROD is FIXED! Long live GDOD!
I used my PS3 on my trampoline and the fucking cpu heatsink went right through the mainboard, poorly designed piece of crap. sony should recall all of them over this defect!
Well, I have no idea what are Do's and Donts with an XBox, but considering most systems RROD because of overheating, I think the spot your XBox is in is a very important factor.
My XBox is not in a closed off cabinet or something like that. It's on top of a small table so it's got no shelves or planks or other objects next or on top of it. It's always set up flat, not on it's side standing up. I clean it off with a vacuum cleaner every time I vacuum clean the living room (I don't actually open the device mind you).
Having said all that, I'm not exactly a hardcore player anymore. While there are days when I spend quite some time playing on my XBox (a few hours), it's not very common. I remember reading that there is a correlation between intensive use of the device and RROD's, so maybe it's just a matter of time before mine dies as well or maybe I simply don't use it intensively enough.
A friend of mine has an XBox 360 stuck in a very tight spot. Almost no room for airflow around the device. He barely ever touches the thing, but I'm pretty sure that if he spends a few weeks playing the device every day, he's guaranteed to get a RROD.
Name one and show me a video and I might believe that. So far you have brought zero evidence to the table.
It's called physics. If you need a video evidence for this then there isn't much point even discussing this.
A lawsuit, consumer org investigations and a whole bunch of Youtube videos.
From your link "However, a further test which attempted to simulate normal household vibrations produced a disc scratch on the previously problematic console."
So in all the tests they managed to produce the grand total of one scratched disc.
I put my books on Amazon, Smashwords, Demonoid, ISOHunt and Pirate Bay. Search for 'Michael Cargill'
I don't want a tiny earthquake to scratch my DVD just because it is in my XBOX when the Earth gets the shivers. Just sayin, they are a private company and free to do as they like but this REMAINS a defect. I will say we're lucky that M$ hasn't joined forces with the MPAA to destroy your video media after the 3rd view, forcing you to procure another license for the next 3 views.
It's called physics. If you need a video evidence for this then there isn't much point even discussing this.
There are plenty of devices of devices that have no problem dealing with the physics (portable CD players are the most obvious). Physics are not the limiting factor, bad engineering is.
But yeah, as you failed yet again to came up with a blink of evidence that this issues exist even in a single other devices then the Xbox360 we can stop right here with the discussion. It is pointless to argue with somebody who dodges a simple question like you.
I don't think so... A few consoles ago I told him to keep it flat and not orient it vertically. It has been sitting flat on the hardwood floor next to his TV ever since.
He plays it a lot though, probably 6 hours a day isn't uncommon. After I get home from work I don't think I could keep my concentration on a game that long, I have no idea how he does it.
Are you sure about that? Hairdryers consume a LOT of power, take a look at the meter when you're using the dryer since you'll see it speed up massively. I doubt the 360 draws as much even in its old incarnation.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.