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36-Hour Lemmings Port Gets Sony Cease and Desist
Zerocool3001 writes "The recently featured 36-hour port of the original Palm version of Lemmings to the iPhone and Palm Pre has received a cease and desist letter from Sony. Only one day after submitting the app for approval on the two app stores, the developer has put up a post stating that he 'did this as a tribute to the game — we can only hope that Sony actually does a conversion for platforms like iPhone and Palm Pre in the near future.' The text of the cease and desist letter is available from the developer's website."
Fuck you Sony!
'When the Going gets Weird, the Weird turn Pro.' - Hunter S. Thompson
Sony still sells Lemmings across various platforms. He had to see this coming.
Besides directly calling it Lemmings was even more stupid move. Sony has to defend the Lemmings name too, and if the port is low quality it hurts the whole Lemmings brand.
What's the difference between a lemming and lawyer?
A lemming is less short-sighted: he must at least be able to follow another lemming.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
Linking to his poor server twice in as many days. The slashdot hordes make their presence felt yet again!
More on topic though, very honestly, what did he expect submitting it to the Apple and Android app stores? That Sony would just let that happen? Then again, with all the copies already downloaded (did anyone actually get to download it?) it'll be very hard for Sony to prevent this from spreading...
Veni, Vidi, Velcro!
allowing 36 hours to remove it instead of 48 hours would have shown at least a little bit of humor...
You create a copy of a game and release it via official platforms, and now you find it strange that the right holder objects ?
Let me create a iPhone version of the original Mario Brothers (even older then Lemmings) and see what Nintendo does..
Hands up if you saw this as happening the minute you read the original story a few days ago.
No, their claim rests on the fact that they published the Lemmings games, or licenced out the ability to publish them, and this is a port of one such licenced product. The trademark is within that context of video games. Even if they couldn't trademark it within that narrow context, that still leaves the first part of "he's created a port of a licenced product." The trademark infringement is a separate part of it.
Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
Your point makes no sense, especially if we're talking about the game lemmings.
1) Lemmings do NOT follow each other. They move blindly, period.
2) Lawyers do seem to follow each other, or at least follow where the money is.
They forgot to rootkit the original release.
.sig: No such file or directory
Yeah...he kind of copied the trademark, and all the art wholesale. He walked right into this one, and the law is pretty squarely not on his side (which is exactly the way I feel it should be).
Not if you then try and sell it to a shit load of people in a shop, no.
Do tell. I've always seen it as Lindows getting beat senseless by a huge corporation. I mean, Lindows changed its name. Microsoft didn't seem to do much at all. Even if they gave Lindows money, it probably made little to them.
And even if you strike down trademark on the common word "Lemmings" (very doable if expensive), there's still the matter of all the artwork he ripped straight from the original. It's definitely non-trivial, and the answer how he managed to port it all in such a short time is that he copied the artwork and levels verbatim, porting only game engine but retaining (pirating) original game data.
One could say he could continue by releasing his ports stripped of all said data, but with some extraction tool, and allow people with legal PC copies of Lemmings to extract the game assets and use them with the engine. Like Doom for Amiga - you still had to purchase the PC original for the .WAD file - actual content of the game, while the (platform-specific) game engine was purely 3rd party without ID Software involvement or license.
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Look at what he produced, it is a straight port of the game. Everything is the same.
There is no WAY this would fly especially as the Lemmings games are still sold for various platforms commercially. SOME companies TOLERATE old material being used freely but that is only if they don't see any future potential in it.
Lemmings still has potential.
Now you could start a discussion about copyright reform and such, but for now, making a blatant PORT (this is far further then a copy of the idea, it is the same idea) is illegal.
And Sony was nice enough about it, they have given him 48 hours to clean the stuff up and are not even pressuring him to destroy all the distrubuted copies. Basically they are saying, "Well we don't like it but if you don't do it anymore we won't hold you responsible for the damages caused so far".
Frankly, if I were him I would thank Sony on his bare knees. For a stunt he should NEVER have distributed the ports and for a "software should be free" he should never have signed his name.
You CAN make a Ufo: Enemy unknown game is you wished, you could even use enemies with the same capabilties (I doubt the makers would want a lawsuit over the *cough* Alien *cough* that impregnates your soldiers only for another *cough* Alien *cough* to burst out from them to go to court.) but a direct port? Nope.
Nice project kid, great way to get your name out there. Now take the extremely nice offer of Sony to clean it all up.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
A lawyer that smells blood is like a vampire or leech.
A lemming doesn't care about blood.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Perhaps for your own use and enjoyment, but making a port (copy of original gameplay) and then putting it in apps-stores? how is that not a trademark/copyright violation? If sony owns the rights to lemmings, they alone should be allowed to port it to the iphone for common distribution.
Now i realize in this case it kind of sucks since the intrepid geeky developer acting alone and (at least partially) out of passion and fanaticism for games/programming gets beaten back by the big soul-sucking mega-corp, but this works both ways, these laws also prevent sony from taken this guys' original games and shamelessly putting them on the PSP without paying him.
From a geek/nerd point of view, the whole '36 hours to port to several platforms' action was cool and all, but in all other aspects, pretty stupid, especially if the guy knew he was gonna violate sony's rights
People, what a bunch of bastards
From the C&D letter:
Sony Computer Entertainment Europe and its subsidiary Psygnosis (collectively "SCEE") have published or licensed "Lemmings" games...
Lemmings was developed by DMA Design, and published by Psygnosis:
The end of Psygnosis came when, in 1999, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe (SCEE) completely absorbed the company. Psygnosis' head office in Liverpool and studios in Stroud, Camden and Leeds were rebranded as Sony Studio Liverpool, Stroud, Camden and Leeds, with other studios being closed.
[ref]
I hate how they abuse their ownership over 'their' IP.
CAPTCHA: HOARDERS - hanging on to IP that wasn't even ours originally while we refuse to publish the titles
Serious question, what damages are they suffering? For each platform that Sony are not currently selling Lemmings on or planning to sell Lemmings on, surely there are no damages whatsoever?
Bear in mind European courts do not hand out punitive damages anywhere near as much as US courts do.
Can I has the serial?
Microsoft use the "Windows" trademark for their operating system, and they claimed "Lindows" was similar enough to cause confusion in the market. I believe Microsoft were correct in this belief.
Lindows, however, counter-claimed that; within the IT industry the term "window(s)" was a generic term, used well before and apart from Microsoft's usage of it as a product name. I believe also that Lindows were correct in this belief.
The two sides were then looking at the trademark dispute being decided in court, where there was the very real possibility that Microsoft's "Windows" trademark would be found invalid. So Microsoft offered Lindows a big chunk of change if they changed their name and dropped the case.
As much as I want to call Sony the villain here, they really aren't.
The person who ported it took everything from the original game and released it on a newer platform. That is like someone taking Sonic the Hedgehog or Mario bros and porting it over with all the same graphics, sounds, and design.
They're protecting their property from theft, here. Had he used his own art, sounds, etc, with the same gameplay then Sony wouldn't really have a leg to stand on, but he basically stole everything from the original and ported it over. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. He shouldn't have assumed that he could take the assets without asking.
I just received a sound system from them as a present. For its price range, it had plenty of features, and good sound quality. Not shitty at all.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
nice to get slashdotted twice in a week - the website still seems to be up this time around.
since i am on vacation (in egypt) for two weeks - i had to simply withdraw the submission and downloads from the application catalogs and own website, since sony gave a 48 hour window, i can deal with it in more detail when i am back from vacation. as for the intellectual property, no original code was uses (in fact, the palm os version was my own implementation) the only thing that is definitely "used" is the name (Lemmings) and the original EGA graphics from the game. even the levels are redesigned in the event that they are not workable with one player mode and the limitations of the palm os platform
IANAL - but since no original files are used, in fact everything is re-created without reference to the original source code, the only infringing rights here are the use of the name "Lemmings". there have been a number of copyright cases dealing with the look and feel - so it can go either way, intellectual property rights come down to if a jury believes there is confusion between the original and the remake.
i will try to open discussions with SCEE (Sony Entertainment) about getting an official license for the game, in fact, we were looking for the original license holders back in 2001 when we did the palm os versions - but it was in flux between Take Two Interactive, Sony and no-one knew their ass from a hole in the ground. the good news is now SCEE are claiming ownership, so we can now talk to them - and we have proof of concepts made, so if they play nice, this title will officially come to these platforms, if not - then you can start saying how evil they are.
lets see how the discussions go!
couldn't they get "hacked" and have it "leaked" to some well known torrent sites?
Unfortunately they would be responsible even if they were hacked.
Yup, you could argue that. And if you distributed the port code and required people to extract the artwork from their own copy of Lemmings, you could probably get away with it. If, on the other hand, you distribute all of the original levels and sprites, then you shouldn't be surprised when the owner of the copyright on all of these things complains. Compare this game, for example, with Pingus. In Pingus, the gameplay is similar, but the levels and other artwork are all original.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Also...seriously...how often do you use "lemmings" in everyday conversation? I honestly can't remember the last time I used it in the context of referring to the animal, or in the context of describing herd mentality. (Sheep fit much better once you know the truth about lemmings). In fact the last time I even heard the word "lemming" (outside of the context of the video-game) was on the show QI.
What I find most amusing is that he states:
DISCLAIMER: "iPhone" and "iPod Touch" are registered trademarks of Apple, Inc.
as if Apple are going to try and sue him for mentioning their products, yet all the while he flagrantly copies/reproduces SCEE's IP.
So someone gave you a present and then proceeded to tell you how much it was? Classy.
No, but I was told it was "cheap", and it doesn't sound "cheap".
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
And even if you strike down trademark on the common word "Lemmings" (very doable if expensive),
Heh. Don't be so sure about that - the fact that something is a common word doesn't mean it can't be a trademark, too. Or why do you think we've still got things like Windows and Apple computers?
Truth is that a trademark, barring things like the registrant letting it fall into disuse etc., confusing similitary with an existing mark etc., can only be invalidated if it's already a common term in the field you're applying for the trademark in. So if you've developed a new car with improved steering, you can't call that "Steering Wheel(tm) technology" and then go after everyone else who uses the term "steering wheel", but that's only because the term "steering wheel" is already commonly used in the field.
"Lemmings" is not a term that is commonly used in the field of computer games, so it's a solid mark. Don't count on being able to get it invalidated, even with enough money.
Like Doom for Amiga - you still had to purchase the PC original for the .WAD file - actual content of the game, while the (platform-specific) game engine was purely 3rd party without ID Software involvement or license.
Actually, all Amiga DOOM ports were (ultimately) based on id's engine, which was released as open source in 1997 and re-released under the GPL in 1999.
This was intentional on id's part, too: they *wanted* people to port the engine and keep it up to date so that they could continue selling the actual game (i.e., the WADs). Sony could arguably do something similar, but the choice is up to them: even if it'd make good business sense, you can't force them to.
Well, if someone made a port of Halo (using the same name, which also happens to be a common word) for the PS3, I'm sure Microsoft would kill them in court. Notice that people CAN legally play Lemmings on recent hardware, so availability isn't an issue and the brand isn't dead.
>Heh. Don't be so sure about that - the fact that something is a common word doesn't mean it can't be a trademark, too. Or why do you think we've still got things like Windows and Apple computers?
Because trademarks are given out by retards. No, a trademark can't be a common word, except the process of granting one is cheap, quick, easy and dirty (and invalid trademarks are granted left and right) and the process of challenging it is long, expensive and usually beyond reach of small fishes.
Please recall the Windows vs Lindows case. Microsoft lost it, because Windows is a common word. Except it lost only in the US and it would lose it only in english-speaking countries because "Windows" is not a common word in other languages. So Lindows was renamed to Linspire, to be able to continue everywhere - but only after that matter was settled, and it didn't have to pay a penny to Microsoft for "using a similar name".
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Here's the letter from Sony.
I gotta agree with what others have said: 2 slashdottings in such a short period of time seems almost cruel and unusual.
Note to the Editors: If by some chance you run another story linking to this guy's website, use Coral Cache. Please.
coding is life
Doom is a common word. So is quake, and civilisation. Half life is a common scientific phrase.
But when they are used as the name of a computer game, they become distinctive in the context of computer games.
Do you really think you could release computer games called Doom, Quake, Civilisation, and Half Life, without being accused (correctly) of trying to "pass off" your work as being related to the original, simply because the words are common? Really? Trademarks Do Not Work That Way.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Confidentiality is generally something that *two* parties have agreed to (i.e. one party and a confidante). Besides, legal communication is rarely sealed, except on a judge's explicit order, and this is a legal communication to the person who publicised it. You can't sue someone for them choosing to publish their own mail online, unless you have sent them something REALLY secret, obviously not to be disseminated and/or sent accidentally.
Otherwise you get ridiculous situation where someone sends you threatening letters, summons, etc. and then you can't show them to your lawyer.
Here, have a PS3. Now, because I am classy, you've precisely zero clue how much one costs, right?
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Now Sony can also sue him because he published the email's content. See the disclaimer on the bottom: "This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. " :-)
That doesn't mean what you're suggesting it means. He is the entity that the contents et al were addressed to. He's making use of those contents by sharing them with others. That's entirely fine.
That idiotic boilerplate is pointlessly applied to tonnes of corporate e-mail under the crazy thought that if it's sent to the wrong person (as in the sender gets the address wrong), the incorrect recipient legally isn't allowed to act upon anything they've learned. I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty convinced that's utterly unenforceable regardless.
"Oh no... he found the
Ah come on, does none of the mods ever played lemmings, saw he screwed up and pressed the nuke button?
Turn the new one into a parody; the lemmings are now Lawyers, Protected speech. Done.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is insufficiently documented.
The likelihood of Sony allowing a new port of Lemmings to non-Sony platforms is exactly the same as Nintendo allowing a Mario Bros. port to the iPhone or Xbox: exactly zero. The name, trademark and visual art of Lemmings is a valuable asset, and by making it exclusive to Sony hardware, Sony can claim a minor marketing advantage when the iPhone is eating their lunch. (Granted, few people would buy a PS3 for Lemmings these days, but exclusive ports to new Sony Ericsson phones or the next iteration of the PSP could be a selling point.) Even if someone at Sony wanted to play nice and allow some third-party developer to produce a Lemmings game for competing platforms, the legal department would quash that if they were doing their job.
However, the answer is simple. Games cannot be patented, and the infringing content is merely the name and the art/music. Rename the game, redraw all the graphics and replace the levels with new ones, and you're no longer taking off a Sony property. (Disclaimer: IANAL.)
[Before Portal officially came to Mac OS X,] could people have legally cloned it, ripped off all the assets, and distributed it for free? I don't even think this is a slippery slope.
The drop-off point is when someone copied the . Under U.S. law, a Portal clone using original assets would fall under the exclusion of game operation methods in 17 USC 102(b), as would Pingus, a Lemmings clone using original assets. The Tetris Company appears not to understand this.
I dare say their hardware isn't too bad, but their practices towards their paying customers and their bullying tactics to reshape the industry and nations' laws to help further feather their own nest are sufficient for me to not want to give them any more of my money. I'm sure blood diamonds are nice and shiny, but I still wouldn't knowingly buy one.
Lemmings do NOT follow each other. They move blindly, period.
I guess you've never seen a real lemming. They most certainly are not blind, nor do they move blindly in a metaphorical sense. They do not follow each other thoughtlessly either, however, so that part of your rebuttal was correct.
They specifically made it a condition of the cease and desist that, if he complied, they wouldn't pursue him over any copies that had already been distributed. They can always go after the torrent uploaders, that's worked out really well in putting a stop to distribution in the past.
*shakes head*
It's time for some law changing.
Actually, it's more because "Windows" is a common term in the category it was registered in (computer software). As far as I'm aware, Microsoft was never granted a trademark on "Windows", only on "Microsoft Windows".
I'd really love to watch someone try to prove that "Lemmings" is a common term in the computer software/video games category without referring to the game series itself.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
d really love to watch someone try to prove that "Lemmings" is a common term in the computer software/video games category without referring to the game series itself.
But of course it is!
This is how you call all the newly graduated students who start their career by getting jobs at EA, Ubisoft, and other game-making sweatshops hoping to make a name for themselves to advance to "greener pastures" that way.
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Maybe they all played the PC version and only had internal speaker audio. In this version, you only got Bu-dududu, rather than 'Oh no! *pop*' when a lemming died.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
They send an e-mail and expect to be acted upon it within 48 hours? Wow, I'd feel truly fucked if I were out for a weekend enjoying the sun rather than checking my e-mail....
If he created a port, from scratch (including graphics) he would be able to distribute it - except for the name.
All they control here is the name and the graphics he copied. And maps if those are included.
Sony obviously doesn't care about competing entertainment platforms, even though if they made better content, it could be used on ANY platform
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
I think Sony gets a couple of points for this one. That was an amazingly nice letter given the circumstances; it politely said "hey, um, we totally own the 'Lemmings' brand, and you knew it wasn't PD when you did this stunt. We could sue you into the ground. But we will not if you take it off the net."
egypt urnash minimal art.
It seems Sony is well within their rights to go after this guy and bury the ports.
However, wouldn't it be much better for public relations, marketing, not to mention cheaper (not having to pay their lawyers), to just send him a check and say "hey thanks for making these ports! Please send us the source code and here's a check for your work".
I mean really. I'm sure the guy would be thrilled to get a few K for his time that he never expected to get, and Sony gets a few more ports to make a few $ off of. Everybody wins!
-- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
Off-topic, but your name is highly (and oddly) very applicable to this discussion. :)
He who has no
Why would they sell the games on the competitors' platforms when they can and already do it on their own platforms?
Mada mada dane.
now GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!!
Ironically enough, the successor Giana Sisters DS is an official NintendoDS game. Not to be confused with Giana Sisters DS, which is a home brew port of the original (using a build-in C64 emulator and a few extra game specific hacks).
These days most companies don't really seem to care about other companies cloning their gameplay, as thats basically was everybody is doing anyway.
Wrong. The public is enriched by having seen the work. It is enriched further when it falls into the public domain, after the creator has had a chance to profit from his labors.
Wouldnt 'plagiarizing' be a better term than 'pirating'?
Good-bye
Also...seriously...how often do you use "lemmings" in everyday conversation?
For me?... probably 5-10 times per year.
I think you're not familiar with what a "port" really is in gaming. It's taking the assets from one version, and using it on another system. If he's creating it from scratch, it's not a port. Since the entire issue is the use of assets (art and maps), if he recreated them, it's not a port, and it's not a problem.
Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
I agree. I had thought you (and the submission) were misusing the term - I didn't know he actually had source to an old version.
I'd thought he'd written more of an emulator and had merely released it with the original art/levels.
Plagiarizing is when your work bears illusion of being original - when you try to pass someone's work as your original own. If he changed the name for the game, and marketed it as something different than Lemmings, it would be plagiarizing. But it's THE Lemmings, not a different game, not another Lemmings clone, not even penguins running the same levels. This is a copy as faithful to original as possible.
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