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Firefox 4.0 Beta 1 Released

balster neb writes "Mozilla has released the first Beta of Firefox 4, the next major version of the popular web browser. Apart from the new 'Chromified' tabs-on-top UI, there are many major improvements in performance and HTML5 support. This release also adds support for the new WebM video format. Other changes include faster DOM and CSS performance, improved UI responsiveness, hardware 2D acceleration, experimental WebGL support, and better JavaScript performance (though this beta does not include the new JaegerMonkey JIT engine). More details on the Mozilla blog."

190 comments

  1. Now hopefully... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    ...it can win some marketshare back from that company whose business is to track everything one does on the Web.

    1. Re:Now hopefully... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 4, Informative

      Can I ask how long you have actually been using the Internet for?

      Because as recent as around 5-10 years ago, when Google were a lot smaller incidentally, I can recall using web browsers (mainly IE) where it was getting almost impossible to browse anywhere without 8 or 9 pop-up windows appearing that advertised all manner of sexual and non-sexual services and products - nowadays it's an unobtrusive Google ad at the side of the page or maybe an Adobe Flash advert or two at the top or bottom.

      I don't believe Google is perfect by any means but ultimately they do make some pretty cool, good & free stuff that they let me use in return for finding out a bit about where I am and what I'm doing. I know this to be the case *BEFORE* I make the choice of using their stuff and, because I keep myself informed and check these things out, I have a fair degree of control over what information I do and don't choose to reveal about myself - because I consider myself a responsible adult.

      Unfortunately, stuff you put on the Internet has to be paid for somehow which means financing it through advertising/marketing, making the user pay for it or a combination of the two. I'm sure that if Google wasn't there in its number one position, then Microsoft, Apple or A. N. Other would be there doing the same thing, and more than likely with closed, locked-in standards meaning that you can never go anywhere else.

      Even in my case, having gone away from Windows Mobile-based phones to an Android one in the past 18 months, as a mainly Linux user anyway, for the first time I have been able to get rid of the necessity of a Windows and MS Office installation purely because I *HAD* to use Outlook & Activsync to synchronise with my mobile phone. The fact is, I use both Windows XP and Linux, managed to ditch MS Office in favour of OpenOffice and now have pretty good transparency across both OSes.

      So, no, I'm not a Google fanboi but I do credit them with having done more to assist me in getting to using open standards and Open Source software than any other company has - a more than fair swap for sometimes wanting a bit of information about me.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    2. Re:Now hopefully... by meow27 · · Score: 1

      Don't they still have loads of pop-ups on those websites?
      If i recall correctly, all of the major web browsers by the time IE7 came out had anti-pop-up software in them.
      It wasn't that those advertisers decided not to send them anymore. It's that they lost the ability.

      just my 2 cents... correct me if im wrong.

    3. Re:Now hopefully... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      financing it through advertising/marketing

      This meme needs to die. Who do you think pays marketers salaries? You do via higher cost products and your lost time and attention. Marketing pays for nothing.

    4. Re:Now hopefully... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

      No, I agree with you and I'm sure very few, if any, companies are trying advertising by the browser pop-up method these days as a result of all the blocking.

      But at the same time, Google (by virtue of their market lead at the moment) must have had considerable success with the "unobtrusive" advertising they use, which says to me that advertisers now use that rather than some even more evil mechanism than web pop-ups.

      Apart from that, I'm a total tech-head anyway and advertising/marketing people will be the first against the wall come the revolution.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    5. Re:Now hopefully... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

      I never said I agreed with it - but I quite like the option of either paying for something without ads or having it free with ads.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    6. Re:Now hopefully... by f0dder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Tell that to Sun when they gutted their marketing department. I am sorry even Apple runs adverts 24/7 for their iPhone, iPod, Mac book pro. Every other blog is about Apple apple apple. It's no accident. I am sorry you are very wrong when you say Marketing pays for nothing.

    7. Re:Now hopefully... by VGPowerlord · · Score: 2, Informative

      If i recall correctly, all of the major web browsers by the time IE7 came out had anti-pop-up software in them.

      Even Internet Explorer 6 got one in Windows XP SP2.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    8. Re:Now hopefully... by indiechild · · Score: 1

      Don't get me wrong, I love Google products too and I use them everyday, but this whole Google being "open" thing is a big smokescreen. They're a proprietary company who uses and contributes some Open Source products, just like many other proprietary companies like Apple or Microsoft. Nothing wrong with that, but I take issue with people constantly saying they're more "open" or somehow better than other companies.

    9. Re:Now hopefully... by indi0144 · · Score: 1

      You can't have a revolution without propaganda you silly. If Apple have taught us something is that tech does not matter once we have MAGIC.

    10. Re:Now hopefully... by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      Because as recent as around 5-10 years ago, when Google were a lot smaller incidentally, I can recall using web browsers (mainly IE) where it was getting almost impossible to browse anywhere without 8 or 9 pop-up windows appearing that advertised all manner of sexual and non-sexual services and products - nowadays it's an unobtrusive Google ad at the side of the page or maybe an Adobe Flash advert or two at the top or bottom.

      Which has little to do with advertisers behaving better, and has a lot more to do with web browsers and users fighting back with pop-up blockers, NoScript, ad blockers, FlashBlock, etc.

      If the browsers hadn't added those features, we'd still be dealing with lots and lots of pop-up and pop-under ads.

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
  2. Re:First Post !! by iammani · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Good, finding the winner is always bad. A continuous search for the winner is always in the interest of the user.

  3. Re:First Post !! by OSDever · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'll give you that it feels fat and slow in comparison to, say, elinks. I'll even give you that it's fat and slow in comparison to the first versions of Firefox. But in comparison to existing browsers, it trumps IE (obviously,) and, from the short time I've been using it, seems to be running faster with less of a memory footprint than Chrome. I won't lie, extensive testing will have to happen to make me switch, but things are looking up for Firefox right about now.

    --
    What is the airspeed of a fully laden swallow?
  4. Option to use the old UI? by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I hate the Chrome interface. I was hoping that Firefox wouldn't go that route. Does anyone know if the new beta still has an option to use the classic interface?

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Option to use the old UI? by mrjatsun · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just tried it out. You can enable the menu toolbar, and move the tabs back to the original position.. So yes.

    2. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Masami+Eiri · · Score: 1

      When I installed it, it defaulted to the old AI, probably due to how I have the bars rearranged (I have bookmarks on my menu bar). I had to move the tab bar back down, but that was a simple right-click option.

    3. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Dumnezeu · · Score: 1

      Yes, it does.

      --
      Yes, it's sarcasm. Deal with it!
    4. Re:Option to use the old UI? by muzip · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, it is possible to revert to original look by disabling "tabs on top". It is also possible to disable/enable menus.

      However, I liked tabs on top of the addressbar, feels more intuitive.

    5. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Masami+Eiri · · Score: 1

      UI, not AI. D'oh.

    6. Re:Option to use the old UI? by datapharmer · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Thank god. The on-top tabs is the single thing I hate most about chrome.

      --
      Get a web developer
    7. Re:Option to use the old UI? by elcid73 · · Score: 1

      I understand, preferences are preferences, but tabs on top always made the most sense to me. The address bar is an attribute of the current tab that you looking at. Going back and forth in history, all are functions within the context of the tab- so it makes sense that the address bar isn't global. ...but like I said, preferences are preferences.

    8. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Digana · · Score: 1

      Y'know what, I was thinking the same, because it's a widely acknowledged fact that change sucks, but this guy has convinced me otherwise.

    9. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Tabs on top makes sense. Tabs as the window's title bar doesn't.

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    10. Re:Option to use the old UI? by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Change is fine--if it is an improvement. Change for change's sake is just annoying. Personally, I don't find Chrome's interface an improvement in any way. I couldn't give a shit about the "clean look" fad myself (AFAIC, Steve Jobs can take his one-button mouse and shove it up his iHole). I just want my browser to be functional--and not force me to dig around in some new UI just to do simple stuff like printing.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    11. Re:Option to use the old UI? by helix2301 · · Score: 1

      I am glad there is a way to go back to the old interface that on-top tabs is a terrible feature. One thing I am happy about is the HTML5 support.

    12. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just tried it out. You can enable the menu toolbar

      For me, the menu toolbar was hopefully enabled by default. And for you ?

      It is only when I disabled it (View => Toolbars => Menu bar) that it was replaced by this orange horror called "Firefox". It took me a few minutes to figure how to enable it again (Customize => Menu bar, which doesn't customize it but simply displays it again).

      Anyway, congratulations to Mozilla. For a Beta 1, it works really well.

    13. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So where does the search box go if the address bar goes with the tab?
      I never got confused about the placement of the address bar. One instantly sees it as something dynamic, and just as intuitive.

      And i can agree that there could be one or two menus that can be placed inside another, like Help inside tools or something. But everything in one button? I tried that with a few extensions, and it blows. Bulky, and unnerving - when you're tired and accidentally point away from the jungle of menus, it closes.
      Willing to give it a try though, when they make it available to GNU/Linux..

      I reduced everything in the menubar to icons and merged it with navigation with the help of Stylish and its awesome community. I've merged the statusbar with the tabbar and gained some space. Merged Stop, Reload AND Throbber. Nothing it too small, nothing is lost, yet it all fits in two bars.

      They should look into the ideas coming from there, or ask for userchrome.css files to see ideas, not just ask people to write an essay. In any case, as long as they leave Firefox as an open box to customize, i'll continue using it. Nothing comes close to it for me.

    14. Re:Option to use the old UI? by icebraining · · Score: 1

      It's title bars that don't make sense, imho. They're a hack that waste screen space to compensate for the limitations of mouse-based WMs.

    15. Re:Option to use the old UI? by g253 · · Score: 1

      It does if your window is maximised, because it makes aiming much easier (can't miss them by going too far up, fitt's law and all that...)

    16. Re:Option to use the old UI? by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Bulky, and unnerving - when you're tired and accidentally point away from the jungle of menus, it closes. Willing to give it a try though, when they make it available to GNU/Linux.

      There are Minefield builds available for Linux. Just don't rely on them for important stuff.

      In any case, as long as they leave Firefox as an open box to customize, i'll continue using it. Nothing comes close to it for me.

      I completely agree.

    17. Re:Option to use the old UI? by TheLinuxSRC · · Score: 1

      Tabs on top makes sense. Tabs as the window's title bar doesn't.

      Agreed, 100%. Now, if Mozilla would fix their damn binary builds for Linux so that my CUPS printers work again....

    18. Re:Option to use the old UI? by AndGodSed · · Score: 1

      Personally I feel that an unused window title bar is wasted space.

    19. Re:Option to use the old UI? by quickOnTheUptake · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You can go further:
      tabs are a hack by applications to make up for the failure of the traditional WM model and it's inability to handle large numbers of windows.

      --
      Mod points: Guaranteed to remove your sense of humor.
      Side effects may include gullibility and temporary retardation
    20. Re:Option to use the old UI? by quickOnTheUptake · · Score: 4, Funny

      I just want my browser to be functional--and not force me to dig around in some new UI just to do simple stuff like printing.

      yeah, ctrl + p, that was a bitch to figure out, all different than anyone else has ever done it before, and just for the sake of being different.
      Oh yeah, and they put it in the top-level of the page menu, which should take a complete retard at least 15 seconds to find.
      I really think you should pick better examples.

      --
      Mod points: Guaranteed to remove your sense of humor.
      Side effects may include gullibility and temporary retardation
    21. Re:Option to use the old UI? by hibiki_r · · Score: 0, Troll

      But if you are browsing on a maximized window on a widescreen monitor, you are already failing. Books and fliers aren't landscaped for a reason.

    22. Re:Option to use the old UI? by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      Change is fine--if it is an improvement. Change for change's sake is just annoying. Personally, I don't find Chrome's interface an improvement in any way. I couldn't give a shit about the "clean look" fad myself (AFAIC, Steve Jobs can take his one-button mouse and shove it up his iHole). I just want my browser to be functional--and not force me to dig around in some new UI just to do simple stuff like printing.

      Don't blame Apple for this one, that stupid "no menu" look is Vista's doing. Apple tried to go the tabs-on-top route with Safari 4 but luckily listened to its users and reverted to the old way.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    23. Re:Option to use the old UI? by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Pretty much. See Uzbl: the "uzbl-browser" doesn't come with tabs. You can get "uzbl-tabbed", a version that provides tabs to switch between multiple instances of uzbl-browser, but many users manage them directly with their WM.

    24. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Omestes · · Score: 1

      I personally love it every time some bit of popular software changes their UI, even if I hate the change the internet gets slightly more amusing for a time. This is especially true for Firefox, there are still people winging on about how terrible the Awesome Bar(tm) is, and now we'll all get to live with people complaining about Chromifying their UI.

      Change for change's sake is just annoying. Personally, I don't find Chrome's interface an improvement in any way.

      But a useful change, and a superfluous change are largely in the eye of the beholder. You may find the new Firefox look to be a useless bit of bling, but I may not. I personally think Chrome was a decent (if a bit flawed) step forward, you may disagree. The problem is when people conflate their personal opinion into "this is factually not a step forward!". It isn't for you, but a ton of others might disagree (as shown by Chrome rapidly growing numbers).

      As long as their remains, for at least a bit of time, the means to revert things back, then I have no problems. This is the mistake they made with the Awesome Bar(tm), but this doesn't hold for the new UI changes, you can easily revert them.

      Personally I like it, though it still is a bit wasteful of space. The menu button should be moved down, to completely remove all of the space that used to be the title, and menu bars. It should be either inline with the tab bar, or switched to right of the address/search area as in Chrome. Personally I love the idea of a minimal UI, as long as it remains expandable and doesn't come at the cost of being feature rich (my main complain about Chrome). I like my browser to first be a browser, hopefully as devoid of flash and bling as humanly possible. I'm using it for the internet, not to look at the beautifully rendered button which you paid someone a heap of money to make. Nor do I need my browser to tell me what it is (via the title bar) constantly, I'm sure I know what bit of software I'm using at any given time. I doubt there has ever been a time where I pondered "Is this Firefox, or is this Word, is it VLC, or is this World of Warcraft?! Oh crap, it was actually Photoshop all along!".

      Menu bars too should die (as should MS's ribbon idea as an alternative) when they aren't useful.

      This is all my opinion, obviously. Your might differ, which is fine. The point is, there isn't a universally accepted scheme for good interfaces. Hell people are still arguing if GUIs in general were really a good idea.

      The negative aspect of the internet makes this much worse, it amplifies dissent and problems while completely ignore satisfied users. If I LIKE the new stuff, there isn't really much reason for me to dust off my browser and write up a critique. If I hate it, its the first thing I'm going to do. Thus the internet makes it hard to judge how the reaction to change actually is. It makes it very easy, though, for those who dislike it to conflate themselves into a unified body, and to decide they are a majority. I never take internet winging seriously, waiting for the usage numbers is much more useful. Take the Awesome Bar(tm), people complained about it like it was personally going to cause the end of the world, but Firefox's numbers didn't dip very much.

      That said, and while I'm on my offtopic soap box, I think there is a minority of people out there who HATE change. The second the status-quo gets a bit rocky they get inexplicably infuriated. As such, they generally complain much much more than anyone else, crowding out even those people who have actual gripes about the change in question. This is also true in the converse, there is also a group of people who leap on any and every change, no matter how boneheaded or idiotic it is. These people are generally contained in Apple specific forums though, so never bother the rest of us.
         

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    25. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It's title bars that don't make sense, imho. They're a hack that waste screen space to compensate for the limitations of mouse-based WMs.

      Look, I know UI designers are all in love with mobile phones and tablets these days, because that's what all the cool kids are playing with.

      But the machine I'm running on has a mouse and an OS, and that OS displays title bars in every window it opens. It's a UI standard for most mouse-and-keyboard-based OSes, and I'd really appreciate it if you UI/UX folks would stop fucking with it.

      Don't even get me started on ribbons. Cutesy little icons without words aren't a way to improve the user experience, they're a hack that makes localization cheaper, because you don't have to hire translators.

    26. Re:Option to use the old UI? by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Books and fliers aren't landscaped for a reason.

      Except for the ones that are landscaped, also for a reason.

      Also, on-screen viewing is a different medium than print, and the degree to which what is optimal for the latter is also optimal for the former is quite limited.

    27. Re:Option to use the old UI? by icebraining · · Score: 1

      I wasn't talking about tablets and phones. I was talking about keyboard based tiling WMs, like Awesome, wmii or ratpoison.

      And it's not exactly a new concept:

      The first Xerox Star system tiled application windows

    28. Re:Option to use the old UI? by quickOnTheUptake · · Score: 1

      I have tried uzbl and surf, and I've heard of vimprobable. I've also tried (and liked) euclid-wm, which has as one of its stated goals making tabs unnecessary.
      It is fun to see this whole tiling, unix-philosophy, vim-keybindings UI train of thought start to take off. You know how many of these projects have come into being in the last 10 years?

      --
      Mod points: Guaranteed to remove your sense of humor.
      Side effects may include gullibility and temporary retardation
    29. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      They did it right in the Mac version -first of all they didn't try to do the "tabs as title bar" thing (some of us actually use the information up there) and by default the tabs are below the location bar. Also, they didn't hide the menu bar since that doesn't make any sense on OS X.

      In fact, the sole gripe I have is that they made "tabs on top" a boolean option instead of just making the various bars (tabs, toolbar, bookmarks, whatever any extension adds) reorderable at will. The new layout code conflicts with TabGroups Manager (which otherwise works just fine), which leads to the tab group bar being the lowermost bar now instead of being above the tab bar. I'll expect the extension developer to fix this, though.

      Oh, and there's a bug with the toolbar customization -I can reorder and add/remove any element of the toolbar except for the bookmarks button, which can't be directly manipulated.

      Apart form that, though, I'm fairly happy. Most of my 3.5 extensions still work perfectly (after I installed the Add-on Compatibility Reporter extension and enabled them) with Firebug being the biggest exception as it's completely inoperable. Still nothing we can't expect to see fixed before 4.0 goes gold.


      Overall, the 4.0 beta is an improvement. Everything feels a bit smoother, the interface gained some polish (I especially like the circular per-tab progress indicators) and I finally get not only out-of-process Flash but also WebM support. Seeing (some) videos on YouTube without any stutter at all is really nice - and I don't even have 100% CPU load while doing so.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    30. Re:Option to use the old UI? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Have you used BeOS ?

      Instead of Windows wasting the WHOLE space of the title bar, BeOS had two advantages:
        - they took up minimal space instead of wasting space
        - you can slide them ALONG the top of the window, so you could quickly switch between overlapping windows

      Here is a picture...
          http://farm1.static.flickr.com/47/152400976_bef7854aa1_o_d.png

      And another description....

      http://lowendmac.com/backnforth/010423.html

      "For example, a BeOS web site used to advertise itself with the slogan, "Little. Yellow. Different." Instead of having a title bar that covers the whole top of the window, Be used little yellow tabs. The yellow immediately sets BeOS apart from all the grays and blues of other operating systems. One neat feature was that you could slide the tab if you held the shift key down. So you could stack several windows on top of each other with tabs in different places much like the interface of Apple's web site. That would be fabulous, but when you close the window or restart the computer, BeOS doesn't remember where you slid the tab - so they all get stacked on top of each other next time. It is a little detail, but it matters."

    31. Re:Option to use the old UI? by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Also, on-screen viewing is a different medium than print, and the degree to which what is optimal for the latter is also optimal for the former is quite limited.

      Once a line length exceeds a certain distance, it becomes hard to move your focus directly to the next line of text. You have to scan the line in reverse, or re-read the start of the lines.
      This doesn't change whether the text is on paper or on screen.

      Anyhow, I have never understood the need people have to maximize applications. I much prefer being able to work with multiple apps at the same time, cutting and pasting between them without any of them disappearing from view.
      With overlapping windows, the need for tabs is much diminished. In fact, I wish I could drag a tab out into a new window and it appeared where I dropped it.

    32. Re:Option to use the old UI? by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      I dunno...I've been using tree-style tabs for a year or so now. They make far more sense to me than regular tabs, anywhere you put them.

      I've got a "tree" of tabs on the left side of the browser (maximizes vertical space, since everything I use now is widescreen) where tabs spawned from a page are indented under that tab. I can expand and collapse branches.

      The new "chrome" way makes no sense, and doesn't make anything better. I'm a bit surprised they didn't try this style out - it's a big improvement for me, at least.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    33. Re:Option to use the old UI? by severoon · · Score: 1

      You don't like related UI elements visually grouped in an appropriate way that implies functionality? Would you prefer the "go back" button is in the upper left and the "go forward" button in the middle right of the browser UI?

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    34. Re:Option to use the old UI? by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Once a line length exceeds a certain distance, it becomes hard to move your focus directly to the next line of text. You have to scan the line in reverse, or re-read the start of the lines.
      This doesn't change whether the text is on paper or on screen.

      Sure, but the trade-offs with other inefficiencies do change in between print and on-screen viewing. For one thing, your monitor size is fixed in both dimensions, so the choice to maximize or use a narrower display has consequences in how much text you can read before you are forced to do some physical manipulation; that can be a greater inconvenience than that associated with line breaks, especially if you are doing something else with the keyboard/mouse alongside reviewing the text (as might be the case with certain tasks in a two-monitor setup.)

      Certainly, maximizing a browser window on a widescreen monitor might often be undesirable, but the characterization that doing so is always "failing" made upthread is clearly wrong.

      Anyhow, I have never understood the need people have to maximize applications. I much prefer being able to work with multiple apps at the same time, cutting and pasting between them without any of them disappearing from view.

      Some people, suprisingly enough, have different preferences and work-patterns than you. Further, several people with the same general preference realize it with multiple monitors, so that maximizing one (or possibly even more) apps isn't inconsistent with having multiple apps visible at the same time.

    35. Re:Option to use the old UI? by treeves · · Score: 1

      Closed books and magazines aren't landscaped but most people prefer to read books when they are open. In that condition, most books are wider than they are tall.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    36. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My taskbar is on top (Windows and Linux), you insensitive clod!

    37. Re:Option to use the old UI? by onefriedrice · · Score: 1

      You can go further: tabs are a hack by applications to make up for the failure of the traditional WM model and it's inability to handle large numbers of windows.

      Umm, not really. Tabs are based on the idea of "stacking" or grouping related "papers" together. That's perfectly natural on a real desk, unless you think you need to have every "open" paper on your desk to be visible.

      The GP is correct. Titlebars are unnatural and just waste space, having no parallel to anything we might use when managing a real desk. Every function of the titlebar and window border can be accessed without actually interacting with them in any WM worth its salt. They do waste a lot of screen space. On the other hand, it's completely natural interacting with tabs with the mouse; they behave as we would expect, having used physical tabs to organize actual paper documents.

      --
      This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
    38. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It makes perfect sense. You're too old; get back on your porch.

    39. Re:Option to use the old UI? by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Further, several people with the same general preference realize it with multiple monitors, so that maximizing one (or possibly even more) apps isn't inconsistent with having multiple apps visible at the same time.

      Um, yes, it is inconsistent. At present, I have three visible web browser windows, four visible terminal windows, an e-mail client and two rows of icons across my two displays. To realize that with maximized windows, you'd need 9 monitors.

    40. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is Firefox 4's UI looks like shit and they didn't even reap the benefits on 'tabs on top'. You've got the stupid 'Firefox' button and the status bar wasting valuable screen space when the window is maximized.

      They're channeling a mix between Chrome and Opera's UI but they've missed the mark. The small details are all wrong; the 'Firefox' button is distracting and the unfocused tabs/ui elements are difficult to make out. The navigation pane/chrome makes a harsh transition into the window decoration but it isn't aligned with the content pane. It's a poor effort all the way around. The actual shape of the UI elements is terrible. There is nothing good you can say about the new UI when you compare it with the competition.

    41. Re:Option to use the old UI? by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Further, several people with the same general preference realize it with multiple monitors, so that maximizing one (or possibly even more) apps isn't inconsistent with having multiple apps visible at the same time.

      Um, yes, it is inconsistent. At present, I have three visible web browser windows, four visible terminal windows, an e-mail client and two rows of icons across my two displays. To realize that with maximized windows, you'd need 9 monitors.

      Um, no, it is not inconsistent. "[M]aximizing one (or possibly even more) apps" is not the same as "maximizing all apps".

    42. Re:Option to use the old UI? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      The size of the page is what's relevant. Just because an open book has two pages side by side doesn't mean you are reading both at the same time.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    43. Re:Option to use the old UI? by McDutchie · · Score: 1

      Umm, not really. Tabs are based on the idea of "stacking" or grouping related "papers" together.

      Which is a function that the window manager should have been providing all along. The application is the wrong place to implement it, but they are forced to because the window managers in dominant operating systems are woefully inadequate.

    44. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Jahava · · Score: 1

      You can go further: tabs are a hack by applications to make up for the failure of the traditional WM model and it's inability to handle large numbers of windows.

      For what it's worth, KDE4 attempts to address that issue by enabling tabbed windows. I think it's a good example of what you're referencing, and a good perspective of what WM-based tabs look like.

      That said, tabs in browsers also make more sense than WM-sponsored window tabbing. Browsers, for better or worse, have become an operating system in and of themselves, and thus are a special case. Most applications neither need nor would benefit from having tabbed support. Those that do (e.g., chat clients, document editors, browsers, etc.) typically have some form of tabs streamlined to their use cases and audiences. A WM-based solution would likely result in less usability on a per-application basis, since the overall use case wouldn't be tailored to a specific application.

      I think we have a good model right now. Each application introduces tabs as necessary, which may or may not take advantage of tab support in either WM or UI toolkit (QT, GTK, SWT, etc.). Having WM support as a failsafe like KDE does is certainly nice, too!

    45. Re:Option to use the old UI? by treeves · · Score: 1

      True. The question is why doesn't anyone design websites like that: with two columns of text instead of one column of text with columns of ads on either side? Oh, I just answered my own question!

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    46. Re:Option to use the old UI? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Ads are obviously a factor on some sites, but in general there is just no reason to have multiple columns when the length of your page is effectively limitless.

      I've run across a few rare sites that are actually formatted with columns and you scroll horizontally to read the page instead of vertically, but it's harder to do and there's no real benefit so few people bother.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    47. Re:Option to use the old UI? by mr.andreas · · Score: 1

      From http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2010/06/24/why-tabs-are-on-top-in-firefox-4/... "In the Firefox 4 nightly builds, and in Firefox 4 Beta 1, we are changing the default tab position so that tabs are on top. This is a preference that users can change by right clicking on any of their toolbars. Moving the default tab position is obviously a significant and to some extent controversial change to the Firefox UI, which is why we made the video above to help explain our rationale. Contributors who are active in the Mozilla community will know that this debate literally goes back for years. So in some respects this video will serve as quick summary of all of the different arguments both for an against the change. But the more interesting part isn’t about looking back, it’s about looking forward. Recently modern browsers have been transitioning to placing tops on top, and that decision isn’t arbitrary, it isn’t about fashion. The change to placing tabs on top isn’t about one browser versus another browser, it’s about the evolution of the Web as a platform."

    48. Re:Option to use the old UI? by oji-sama · · Score: 1

      Someone in another discussion here recommended Tree Style Tab[s] addon for firefox. It's not perfect, but it is pretty great, especially on widescreen monitor. I hope it will keep getting updated.

      --
      It is what it is.
    49. Re:Option to use the old UI? by quickOnTheUptake · · Score: 1

      There are two issues: 1) whether tabs are a good idea 2) whether any sort of screen multiplexing (whether implemented as tabs or window in window or something else) within the app itself is a good idea.
      As to one, I'm not sure, but I don't think that the argument that "it's just like papers on a real desk" is a good argument. Windows are not pieces of paper. Unfortunately we seem to have an idea that if we make computer UI ellements more like physical things we will have a better interface. I don't think this is a valid assumption on a number of grounds. The most I will admit on a general level is that *if* it is well implemented it might be easier to learn, but it probably won't be faster to use one it has been learned (after all you are introducing all sorts of physical limitations on digital things to make them mimic their physical models).
      But to step back I think tabs make sense when you are pretty sure the user will never want to see two of the stack (usually the case in web browsers, also taken care of in tabbed window managers by letting the user controle what windows get grouped). So I do think tabs can be used effectively.
      My real point, however, is in (2), should windows be having to implement their own ideosyncratic multiplexing. And I think not. That they need to is a sign that in some way the Window manager has failed to effectively manage windows (we can argue about what the window managers should have been doing, but the point is that effectively the apps have started being their own WMs within the WM because the real WM can't effectively manage them in a usable way). And it creates UI consistency problems (even if most people have just learned to deal with the inconsistency): I've caught myself more than once trying to use alt + tab to change tabs.

      --
      Mod points: Guaranteed to remove your sense of humor.
      Side effects may include gullibility and temporary retardation
    50. Re:Option to use the old UI? by xiong.chiamiov · · Score: 1

      You can go further: tabs are a hack by applications to make up for the failure of the traditional WM model and it's inability to handle large numbers of windows.

      Of course, some developers view it the opposite way - tabs in a window manager are a hack to make up for a lack of tabs in applications.

    51. Re:Option to use the old UI? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? In a browser the titlebar title matches the current tab's title, in other words the titlebar only displays redundant information. Using tabs as the titlebar reduces redundancy and saves space.

  5. Re:First Post !! by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Indeed, it is definitely faster than 3.6. Only problem I've noticed so far is that if you were using a third party theme with 3.6, 4.0b1 will happily use it even if not compatible, so you have to switch it manually.

  6. I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by Pojut · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've heard that Chrome and Opera perform better at this point than Firefox, but I can't help it...I just like the way Firefox "feels". I can't give it up.

    WHY CAN'T I QUIT YOU????

  7. Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable 4b1 by CritterNYC · · Score: 5, Informative

    At PortableApps.com, we released the portable package of Firefox 4.0 Beta 1 yesterday soon after 4.0 Beta 1 dropped. It's a great way to test the latest beta without impacting your current Firefox install since it runs self-contained from a single directory. You can even install it to your Desktop or Documents folder.

    Try Mozilla Firefox 4.0 Beta 1 out today with Mozilla Firefox, Portable Edition 4.0 Beta 1

    Mozilla Firefox, Portable Edition 4.0 Beta 1 homepage

  8. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by Pojut · · Score: 1

    Nice, thank you! Definitely going to give this a shot tonight.

  9. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by hedwards · · Score: 1

    I've been using their version for a long time. It's great to be able to easily take it with me wherever I go. Nice to see that they've already got a copy available. Personally, anytime I can keep an app out of the registry, I tend to do it, seems to greatly improve stability.

  10. Not bad by Improv · · Score: 4, Informative

    After some UI tweaking, I got it looking and behaving like Firefox/Mozilla always has, and I'm left with a browser that's slightly faster and has better interfaces for some things. The drag-to-resize text fields in all websites is wonderful. The new extensions management interface is nicer but will take some getting used to.

    --
    For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    1. Re:Not bad by Yvan256 · · Score: 1, Informative

      The drag-to-resize text fields in all websites is wonderful.

      Just so people don't start spreading false truths about how Firefox invented that, Safari had that feature a long time ago. If someone knows if Opera had that before Safari, feel free to reply.

    2. Re:Not bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      True, but to be fully fair, resizeable textareas were available as a Firefox add-on since at least March 2007 via the Resizeable Textarea add-on, three months before Safari 3 was announced and released as a beta.

    3. Re:Not bad by Improv · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why would it matter who came up with any given feature first? In software, all ideas are recycled.

      --
      For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
    4. Re:Not bad by weicco · · Score: 1

      To us perhaps. To marketing department it is not. To fanboys it most certainly is not!

      --
      You don't know what you don't know.
    5. Re:Not bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Durrrrr... because Apple! They do everything first. In fact, I heard they invented the abacus over 100,000 years ago! Can you believe it?

    6. Re:Not bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please tell me you managed to separate the Stop and Refresh buttons. That was one feature I absolutely detested back in the early days of the web, when Internet Explorer had the two buttons merged. A page would start loading, hang up on something, then I would go to click the Stop button and sometimes it would finish loading right before I hit it. Now the Stop button was a Refresh button, and it would START THE WHOLE THING ALL OVER AGAIN!

      Sorry for yelling, but this was one of the reasons I switched to Firefox in the first place!

    7. Re:Not bad by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      Prior art, so when some troll company comes along and tries to patent it we have a record.

    8. Re:Not bad by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 0, Troll

      Why would it matter who came up with any given feature first?

      Mainly because Opera is unfairly pooped on here.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    9. Re:Not bad by Hatta · · Score: 1

      All ideas are recycled. Not just in software.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:Not bad by Hatta · · Score: 1

      The only thing I want to know is whether Vimperator still works on it.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    11. Re:Not bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So? The point isn't that Firefox invented it, it's that Firefox--the browser we want to use--now has this feature we find useful. Who cares if Safari has it... who cares if Chrome also has tabs on top? As long as we get what's best in our browser.

    12. Re:Not bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It may be the browser you want to use, but on Mac OS X and Linux Firefox just sucks.

    13. Re:Not bad by Massacrifice · · Score: 1

      Car analogy : while Chrysler came up with the minivan first, but it doesn't mean they had the best implementation. Quite the opposite actually.

      --
      -- Home is where you eat your heart out.
    14. Re:Not bad by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Hang on, this is not a troll. It's an answer to his question! The reason noisy Opera fanboys like me get noisy is because noisy FireFox fanboys would crow about how FireFox was being innovative when IE wasn't. They were completely unaware that most of the features they were tauting were inspired by Opera. They'd make these grandiose statements about how they were all about 'choice', but stories about Opera were met with questions about why Slashdot'd even bring it up.

      The only silver lining here is that it's nowhere near as bad today as it was a few years ago. But us Opera zealots, we remember, and we're noisy for it. Sorry.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    15. Re:Not bad by Simetrical · · Score: 1

      True, but to be fully fair, resizeable textareas were available as a Firefox add-on since at least March 2007 via the Resizeable Textarea add-on, three months before Safari 3 was announced and released as a beta.

      I tried that extension when I used Firefox. It was theoretically nice, but actually quite buggy, so eventually I disabled it. IIRC, when I used it, it would allow you to do things like squish text fields out of existence and seriously distort the page layout. The built-in WebKit implementation (and probably also the FF4 implementation) is much more polished.

      I find this is usually the case with extensions vs. native features, for most software products. The original developers know what they're doing and have high production values, while extension developers usually just hack something up without serious design, review, or testing. So I avoid using third-party extensions for any of my software (browsers, server apps, etc.) if possible.

      --
      MediaWiki developer, Total War Center sysadmin
  11. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

    Mod up, please. Informative post, excellent product. Put it on your thumbdrive.

  12. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by nyctopterus · · Score: 4, Informative

    Why do you need to? Chrome renders pages faster, sure, but I don't really give a shit about a couple of milliseconds rendering time. Chrome has isolated tabs, but crashes more than Firefox anyway (at least for me).

    Finally, when you have a really nice open source browser that isn't entirely controlled by a giant behemoth that knows everything about you, why not use it? Seriously, do we need to be throwing more power Google's way?

    P.S. Gecko is still much faster at some things, i.e. image rendering and animation.

  13. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    It's a great way to test the latest beta without impacting your current Firefox install

    much like the version you download straight from Mozilla. Seriously, has there ever been a Firefox Beta, RC or nightly build that at all impacted your standard install?

  14. Feedback button by muzip · · Score: 1

    I also liked the Feedback button, a simple and easy way to report bugs and give thanks :)

  15. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by hal2814 · · Score: 0, Troll

    I couldn't quit Firefox either (and had no intention of doing so). But then Firefox went the way of IE in my book. I can't trust it anymore. There are now sites that will install spyware on my machine by merely visiting them in Firefox. That still hasn't happened to me with Chrome so I guess that's my flavor of the week until it starts getting crudded up as well. I'm not thrilled about the way Chrome "feels" but I am used to it by now. The Chrome UI is less annoying than random spyware.

  16. Whoa by Cornwallis · · Score: 1

    Quite a bit faster than 3.6...

    1. Re:Whoa by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      I would like to see how it compares to other "Modern" Browsers in terms of speed. Lately Firefox (which was supposed to be the fast and light Mozilla) has been running at speads that beat IE but not the other browsers. I would love to see Firefox compete with the other guys as well.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Whoa by arth1 · · Score: 1

      There are three areas that significantly slow down web browsers:

      1: Javascript/CSS execution. This is where almost ALL the effort is concentrated. My take on it is to generate less javascript/CSS, and do more of the work ahead of time on the server side. Instead of a page that can display in 64 different ways, pre-generating 64 static pages can make the site more responsive for the user.

      2: Layout/rendering. Various tricks can be used, including (but not limited to) spaceholders, rendering to off-screen buffers that are then blitted into place, and decreasing the priority of off-screen rendering versus on-screen. It's improving, but slowly.

      3: Networking. Sure, caching and prefetching helps. But these days, a substantial part of the slowness is due to having to resolve twenty different hosts, many of which are dynamic host names, and most of them used for advertising. And most of those could be looked up ahead of time, so your DNS servers have them cached once you followed a link. By adding a small filter to my squid cache that does a grep[*], I improved browser responsiveness in exchange for DNS server work. Other networking improvements are possible too, including trickle-prefetching and adjusting the number of connections (both to each server and overall) dynamically.

      [*]: grep -oP '[[:alnum:]]+\.[[:alnum:]]+\.(com|net|org)' | sort -u | xargs -n1 nslookup >/dev/null
      Yeah, it's inaccurate and overly simple, but it triggers advance resolving for enough domains to make a real difference. I'm surprised that browsers don't seem to do the same, but wait until they need to connect to a domain before they try to resolve it.

    3. Re:Whoa by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      I disagree with your recommendation for #1. about just making a bunch of static pages. You have Expensive servers that are running at max performance. You have the client PC who often runs quite sub optimal. I say let the PC do a bit more work and save the server. Secondly reloading pages for every click hinders the user experience and can slow down information much more then having the Javascript do the work.

      The key is getting the right balance of static pages and Javascript making sure each part who can do its job the best has a chance to shine.

      That and browsers should still focus on speeding up Javascript and CSS as like it or not Web pages are moving to Web Applications and need more client side processing.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  17. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

    I know you post was probably just a joke, but still, I'd highly recommend you check out Chrome seriously if you haven't. I'm not the type of person that cares about benchmarks or static screenshots. The thing I value most of all is that intangible "feel" of the software that you allude to, and I don't know what exactly it is, but Chrome "feels" much, much better than Firefox - PARTICULARLY if you're running Linux (Firefox on Linux compared to Firefox on Windows/Mac is like Data vs B4. Sure they look exactly alike, but one's basically just a slow retarded version of the other. Chrome feels as good or better on Linux vs Windows).

    If you like the more traditional look to your browsers, I'll say that Midori looks promising, but it's still not proven stable enough for me.

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  18. Re:First Post !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While it's technically true that unused RAM goes to waste, RAM that isn't used by programs is typically used for disk cache, which does speed things up (sometimes a lot). So lower RAM usage is still a plus.

  19. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by thijsh · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the tip, the fast release, and more general all portableapps that really make life easier! You guys rule!

  20. Office 2007 by space_hippy · · Score: 0, Troll

    Looks like MS Office 2007, which SUCKS!!!!
    Please leave the option of using the classic interface. Concentrate on making it standards compliant and less blot.

  21. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by hedwards · · Score: 1

    Nope, but there is no guarantee that it won't. At least this way you know that you've got a back up if something doesn't quite work.

  22. Separate Stop and Refresh Buttons? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Has anyone found a way to get separate stop and refresh buttons?

    I don't know why Mozilla want to take my menus and buttons off me, but if things continue like this the Firefox user interface will soon be a blank window.

    1. Re:Separate Stop and Refresh Buttons? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Say a web page doesn't load properly, what do you do? You press the refresh button! But wait, there's no refresh button in FF4 because until the web page loads there's only a stop button. In FF4 you therefore need two clicks (click stop, wait until it changes to refresh and then click refresh) to do what could previously be done instantly in one click.

      The simple fact is the reason they're dumbing down the interface is to avoid confusing people like 80 year old grandmas. This isn't evolution, this is a reduction in the functionality in an attempt to cater for the lowest common denominator.

    2. Re:Separate Stop and Refresh Buttons? by ThatMegathronDude · · Score: 1

      Esc to stop, f5 to refresh?

  23. WebM by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

    So... where are the encoders for WebM? Don't give any links to Windows-only programs as it's useless to OSS users.

    1. Re:WebM by Trevelyan · · Score: 4, Informative

      http://www.webmproject.org/tools/

      First result on google for webm.....

    2. Re:WebM by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

      ffmpeg -i input_file.mp4 output_file.webm

      Or, you know, you could spend 3.0 seconds typing "webm encoder" into google and skimming the first page of results.

  24. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by Yvan256 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Gecko may not be as fast as WebKit or Presto, but come on... comparing it to Trident?

    Fastest to slowest:
    WebKit/Presto, Gecko, (insert from 5 to 10 imaginary rendering engines here), Trident.

  25. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by Jazavac · · Score: 1

    Excellent version, I would just like to know is there a way to copy my extensions from my local installation?

  26. doh!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keep hitting ctrl+t thinking i have no tabs open. This is going to take some getting used to

  27. No easy way to close by JSombra · · Score: 0, Redundant

    No close, minimize, maximize buttons at top?!? Come one guys that’s basic windows design 101

    1. Re:No easy way to close by JSombra · · Score: 1

      Ahh never mind, just figured out certain older themes hide them. Though quite amusing that the official 4.0b1 theme is also marked as "incompatible" by Firefox

  28. I've been using it for a week now... by Diabolus+Advocatus · · Score: 1

    This was released about a week ago. Saying that, I just clicked the 'Check for updates' in the Help menu and it said a new version (4.0 Beta 1) is available - the same version I've been using for a week. I updated, and the only change I can see is the addition of the Feedback menu next to my APB and LastPass menus.

    1. Re:I've been using it for a week now... by BZ · · Score: 1

      What you were using was a test build, not the actual beta. As you can tell by the fact that the actual beta is different from the build you were using...

    2. Re:I've been using it for a week now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you've been using is a nightly pre-release of 4b1. FF 4 beta 1 wasn't actually released until just recently. Hence the update to the "official" 4b1....

  29. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by balster+neb · · Score: 1

    Ok, here's a single counterexample to prove you wrong:

    http://web.mit.edu/bzbarsky/www/mandelbrot-clean.html

    Try it in the Firefox 4 beta, and compare it to the latest Chrome release.

    The reason you got modded down is probably because you made a dramatic, blanket claim without backing it up with facts.

    Incidentally, browser performance isn't a simple yes/no issue -- it depends on a number of different pieces of technology. E.g. there's DOM and CSS, graphics, and Javascript. Chrome, for instance, does Javascript overall faster than FF (barring some instances, as above), hence Mozilla's work on JaegerMonkey.

  30. Remove the big ugly orange button by Mr_Silver · · Score: 2, Informative

    For those of you who don't like the big ugly orange button, Download Squad tells you how to change its colour or make it transparent.

    --
    Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
    1. Re:Remove the big ugly orange button by BoppreH · · Score: 1

      +1 on that.

      Worse yet, the big, ugly unmovable button takes a whole row all by itself.

  31. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why do you need to? Chrome renders pages faster, sure, but I don't really give a shit about a couple of milliseconds rendering time.

    We're talking real-world (not synthetic benchmarks, but actual page loads) improvements of 100% or more, probably due largely to the fact that Chrome can execute Javascript on something like a reasonable schedule.

    Chrome has isolated tabs, but crashes more than Firefox anyway (at least for me).

    For me it's quite the reverse. And I'm running dailies!

    Finally, when you have a really nice open source browser that isn't entirely controlled by a giant behemoth that knows everything about you, why not use it?

    Chrome isn't "entirely controlled by a giant behemoth" either, it's based on WebKit. And Chromium is entirely open-source so if you really want to, you can see what's going on in there, change things, et cetera. Meanwhile, every time I've ever installed Firefox it's defaulted to google search with suggestions/autocomplete, which means that google is spying on you when you use firefox.

    P.S. Gecko is still much faster at some things, i.e. image rendering and animation.

    If every damned site out there wasn't overusing Javascript that might be a compelling argument.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  32. Re:Here's Hoping... by Diabolus+Advocatus · · Score: 1

    AdBlock+, NoScript, LastPass, Download Statusbar, Flashgot, all work. The only one left I really want are the Web Developer Toolbar.

  33. if you want 64bit on linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    go here: http://nightly.mozilla.org/

  34. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by t482 · · Score: 1

    Anyway of getting flash working? Normally you copy flashplayer.xpt and NPSWF32.dll to  \App\firefox\plugins\. However that directory no longer exists.. Any suggestions?

  35. WEBSOCKETS!!! by Foofoobar · · Score: 4, Informative

    Finally, a major browser that supports websockets besides Chrome. hey IE get off your ass. Don't make us have to take another 15% of your market share.

    --
    This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    1. Re:WEBSOCKETS!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ejem, to check if a browser _really_ supports Web sockets use this page:

      http://html5demos.com/web-socket

      Firefox 4 b2 has a false-positive. It doesn't support web sockets... yet!

    2. Re:WEBSOCKETS!!! by Foofoobar · · Score: 1

      well as it was explained to me, websockets are in the trunk but should be available by the time it hits gold. You should be able to enable websockets in the beta by messing with the config (though they may not work properly)

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
  36. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    P.S. Gecko is still much faster at some things, i.e. image rendering and animation.

    If every damned site out there wasn't overusing Javascript that might be a compelling argument.

    A lot of sites with heavy image content scroll smoothly in Firefox, Opera, and even IE, but struggle along at about 5 fps when scrolling with the webkit browsers. That's my main issue with Chrome.

    --
    "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
  37. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by t482 · · Score: 2

    Fund that the directory is now \Data\plugins - copied over the files on the locked down pc and everything worked....

  38. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I am all for faster browsers. As it will allow for more interesting interactive applications. But lets face it folks we are 99% of the time waiting on things to download. That is the major bottleneck. It is measurable. Webpage render time is such a small part of what I do on the internet its not even factored in. Someday it may be.

    Let me put this into perspective. I will pick one of the slowest part of our computers, the hard drive. The current average seems to be 30-80 MB per second. Average web speed in the united states? About 80k per second (DSL 1.5 meg). Some have it better at 300k to 5 MB per second depending on where you live and how much your willing to pay for it. Now lets say you have one of the 'good' connections at 5MB per second, and assume you can get full use out of it from some web server (not likely). You are still anywhere from 6-20x slower than the slowest part of your computer.

    I put in a proxy server so I could measure what I am doing on the internet. Between me and my GF we waited for nearly 28 hours last month on things to download from the internet or about 14 hours each. We downloaded between the two of us 16 gig of stuff. So for 8 gig of data I waited 14 hours. My connection if it was maxed out would have downloaded all 16 gig in about 6 hours. To do the same thing off my HD would have been a few mins. Also remember I had a proxy server in the mix here. So this time would be even bigger (about 10%).

  39. Re:First Post !! by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    Thanks I was wondering what the heck was the matter with 4.0
    It looked so bad that I figured that it couldn't be an issue for every one but I couldn't find anything on Google about it.
    Now I can put 4 through some paces and see if I will replace chrome with it.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  40. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by nyctopterus · · Score: 1

    We're talking real-world (not synthetic benchmarks, but actual page loads) improvements of 100% or more, probably due largely to the fact that Chrome can execute Javascript on something like a reasonable schedule.

    Um, I'm talking real world too, I don't really look at the benchmarks. 100% faster at something I already feel is more than good enough is a whole lotta nothing for me. You may feel differently, of course, but the point of my original post was to point out that you shouldn't feel its somehow nerd-wrong not to switch from Firefox.

    If every damned site out there wasn't overusing Javascript that might be a compelling argument.

    I think it will become important, if/when Canvas gets traction. I've made some stuff involving multiple layers of transparent PNGs with transiotns between them using javascript. Firefox can render it all very smoothly, including animated transitions. Chrome and Safari, on the other hand, almost entirely choke up, and Opera is very slow. I decided to try the whole thing in Canvas to see if it would be faster, but the results were exactly the same. Firefox's canvas rendering ability is exceptionally good.

  41. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by icebraining · · Score: 1

    What spyware? As far as I know the vast majority comes from plugins, not Firefox itself (Flash, Adobe Reader, etc). The second vector of attack is Javascript, but not only they're usually fixed very soon, you can use NoScript to stop them.

  42. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've heard that Chrome and Opera perform better at this point than Firefox

    Who cares?

    The remote site and/or your network connection is almost always the bottleneck. Try using a new computer and a several year old one to browse the web. I'd be shocked if you could notice any significant difference.

  43. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because the whole interface FREEZES when rendering a tough page, while chrome and opera perform like modern applications? That's a pretty good reason to quit.

  44. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WHY CAN'T I QUIT YOU????

    I made a similar joke about Linux recently. Linux is like a crazy crack-head ex-girlfriend who keeps coming back, seducing you, emptying your wallet and then running off with your best friend leaving you to wallow in self pity with Windows and OSX.

  45. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    WHY CAN'T I QUIT YOU????

    Slashdotter Extension, duh.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  46. "Faster" for who? by h00manist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Its really annoying to see everyone saying their browser runs "faster", then browsing pages on any kind of out-of-date pc and seeing it go as fast as cold molasses. Come on, just to browse websites you need to buy new computers? It's not easy to make standards good for all, but some kind of tolerance for older equipment is necessary too, at least in public standards of stuff.

    --
    Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    1. Re:"Faster" for who? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Well how out of date are you talking?
      I am using it on a P4 single core which is pretty dang old and it works just fine.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    2. Re:"Faster" for who? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Well I decided to run sun spider on both Chrome and FF4
      Chrome wins by a lot.

      RESULTS (means and 95% confidence intervals)
      Total: 847.0ms +/- 25.3%

      FF4
      RESULTS (means and 95% confidence intervals)
      Total: 1245.0ms +/- 3.7%

      This is only one test and it is on an old single core P4 so maybe multi cores will do better. FF4 may do better on other bench marks, and FF4 is an early beta.
      Also I ran the test on Chrome first so any catching that may have been done would have benefited FF4.

      But the results for me mean that I will probably stick with Chrome on this machine for now.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    3. Re:"Faster" for who? by hairyfeet · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well I'd say a lot of it has to do with how well taken care of the underlying OS is. Here in the shop you'd be surprised how many folks bring in their PCs because it is "too slow" for browsing and it is full of cruft, such as a ton of running background crap they never use and a badly treated registry. A good cleaning of the registry and HDD and they'd be talking about how fast their computers were.

      But I have to agree about old PCs, as I have my GF and two boys on P4s and for what they do (FB and email for my sweetie, MMOs and web surfing for the boys) they work quite well. Hell I just retired my circa 2001 1.1Ghz P3 512Mb which I was using for a netbox, and for anything but flash it ran quite well. Replaced it with a circa 2005 1.8GHz Sempron with 1.5Gb which I am typing on now, and for the basics (SD Flash, web surfing, downloading, music) it works beautifully and thanks to cool and quiet it doesn't use much power or generate much heat. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  47. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by hal2814 · · Score: 1

    There were times when I couldn't follow links on Google or Facebook anymore. I had to manually copy link location and paste them. There were also a few times that ads would randomly pop crap up even if I didn't have a browser open at the time advertising spyware removal. The one that made me throw in the towel on Firefox was the one that looked like Windows Security Center. That thing was so annoying and I got it several times. I updated Firefox every time I got a notification to do so. I don't install executables unless I know where they came from. I don't go clicking OK on those obvious malware pop-ups. I don't surf porn or play Flash games online. Facebook is probably the sketchiest site I frequent and I don't have any 3rd party Facebook apps installed there. I feel I'm a fairly responsible web user. I don't really care what browser I'm using. I just want it to work without having to fiddle with settings or install plug-ins. Firefox did that for a long time, but it's my experience that time is over. So far I'm 6 months into using Chrome and haven't had a spyware outbreak yet. I hope it lasts but if it doesn't I'll be right back out there looking for new options (and re-evaluating old options like Firefox and IE).

  48. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by garcia · · Score: 1

    While I have never seen the speed increases that everyone has (yes, studies, studies, studies -- but in my real world use it doesn't make a difference) Chrome simply doesn't have a viable AdBlock and thus is totally useless for me. YMMV.

  49. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

    Ok, here's a single counterexample to prove you wrong:
    http://web.mit.edu/bzbarsky/www/mandelbrot-clean.html

    Interesting example. Here are some results using a 7-year-old laptop (a newer PC would probably be a lot faster).
    454ms - Opera 10.60
    553ms - Firefox 3.6.6
    661ms - Epiphany 2.30.2
    992ms - Chromium 6.0.453.0
    The two WebKit browsers were the slowest, while the Presto browser was fastest. It's not always so, of course.

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  50. Re:First Post !! by AmigaMMC · · Score: 1

    Glad that it's faster but I'd sacrifice speed in sake of Flash stability. Current version crashes way too often. Been using Chrome exclusively on my netbook not only it's a lot faster than FF, it never crashes on Flash. If something goes wrong it just kills the plugin. And things go wrong a lot less than on FF. 4.0 better the the solution otherwise when Chrome gets RSS I'll witch to it on all my computers.

  51. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by BZ · · Score: 1

    > We're talking real-world (not synthetic benchmarks, but actual page loads)

    I'd be interested in the data here. Can you point me to a particular page you're thinking of?

  52. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by Rockoon · · Score: 1

    Ok, here's a single counterexample to prove you wrong:

    Faster in Presto than Gecko. My Blanket statement stands. Oh, did you mean my other non-blanket statement? Yeah.... maybe you should put away the fan mode and start thinking critically.

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  53. Re:First Post !! by OSDever · · Score: 1

    I mentioned it was running faster. In the short period of time I was playing with it this morning, I tested individual page load time on several websites, application start-up/initial page load time using the "Load the pages I had open last session" settings, and some simple responsiveness tests (loading up videos on youtube & etc.) on both Chrome and Firefox (individually, so that the system was in a relatively similar state for each trial.) Firefox seemed snappier when loading individual pages, started noticeably faster, and was generally more responsive than Chrome. Given, I'm not using Chrome Beta at the moment, so that could have something to do with it. But overall, it seems that Firefox has really gotten their game together. As for memory usage, my main computer is a laptop with 8gb ram, 6 of which are always in use running 2-3 virtual machines. Memory footprint matters greatly to me and is the reason I switched off of Firefox in the first place. The old memory leak that made it take 700mb ram after 2-3 days of constant running wasn't cutting it for me. Chrome tends to hang in the 200s, though on occasion it also jumps up into the 500 range, and, when certain pages start acting up, it'll eat up to 1.2gb. Of course, I tend toward months of uptime and upwards of 30 tabs at any given time, so it's a bit expected.

    --
    What is the airspeed of a fully laden swallow?
  54. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by balster+neb · · Score: 1

    Your blanket statement was to the effect that Gecko is always the slowest of the bunch, comparable to only Trident (what specific area of performance you never mention, implying performance of everything). Such are the ingredients of a troll.

    Anyway, I've done a stupid thing and compared Opera 10.60 with the FF4 beta (not 3.6.6 as per above poster), just for you.

    On my PC, Opera and FF4 are approximately neck-to-neck on the above benchmark, with FF4 having a small but consistent lead of about 10-15%. On zooming in to render in detail, FF's margin increases.

    So how about another counterexample:

    http://www.galbraiths.org/benchmarks/pixastic.html

    FF4B1: 476ms
    Opera 10.60: 827ms

    Still standing by your claim that Opera is "faster" at everything?

  55. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Chrome simply doesn't have a viable AdBlock and thus is totally useless for me. YMMV.

    Do you find AdBlock 2.0 on Chrome 6.x inadequate, and why?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  56. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by zzyzyx · · Score: 1

    Why do your portable apps need an installer? Can't you just provide a simple zip file?

  57. Re:Here's Hoping... by Jesus_666 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I run the beta, using all my old extensions (Mozilla helpfully provides an extension that lets you ignore the compatibility field). In response to your post, I tried to test all of them. So far I noticed a few extensions not working properly:

    Download Helper doesn't seem to detect any videos.
    DownThemAll is incapable of actually downloading anything.
    Firebug is rendered completely inoperable. The menu is there but empty and the statusbar icon doesn't do anything.
    FireFTP is even more inoperable than Firebug, not even showing any menu entries.
    Fission doesn't work anymore but has been rendered obsolete anyway.
    TabGroups Manager hasn't yet adapted to the new layout code so the tab group bar is always the lowermost toolbar above the content pane. Other than that it works just fine.

    So, what does work?

    Add Bookmark Here^2 works as expected.
    Console^2 works as expected.
    Download Statusbar (officially compatible) works as expected.
    Element Properties works as expected.
    Flashblock works as expected.
    Ghostery seems to work as expected.
    Leet Key works as expected (at least the text transformers do).
    Live HTTP Headers works as expected.
    NukeAnything and Remove It Permanently seem to work as expected.
    RefControl seems to work as expected.
    Slashdotter works as expected. (This reminds me, perhaps with Fx 4 the new comment system will work again...)
    Tab Mix Plus works as expected.
    User Agent Switcher works as expected.
    Web Developer seems to work as expected, although I don't use the toolbar, which has benn reported to be broken. The context menu is intact and functioning, though.

    Overall, the tally is not bad for a new major version. I think that most of the broken extensions will be fixed by the time (or shortly after) 4.0 proper comes out.

    --
    USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  58. Still no SVG in img tags by mikael_j · · Score: 1

    I know there have been some problems with Firefox supporting SVG in img tags but I was still sort of hoping they would've sorted it out for 4.x, it's a nice feature (and from a security standpoint they could just go with one of the "lesser" SVG standards that don't include scripting).

    --
    Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    1. Re:Still no SVG in img tags by msclrhd · · Score: 2, Informative

      SVG in img tags and background images is going to be in for FF4, but will land in a later beta.

  59. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by CODiNE · · Score: 1

    Wow that's a great idea, if only there were some futuristic operating system that kept apps self-contained inside a single icon of some sort... that could be drag and dropped from one place to another... you could put them side by side in the same folder and stick a version number at the end of the name then run whichever you wanted.

    The future is going to be soo cool, I can't wait.

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
  60. WebM/VP8 support by diego.viola · · Score: 1

    Does this Firefox version supports WebM/VP8/HTML5?

    Is it possible to watch YouTube videos without Flash now?

    1. Re:WebM/VP8 support by VGPowerlord · · Score: 3, Funny

      Does this Firefox version supports WebM/VP8/HTML5?

      Is it possible to watch YouTube videos without Flash now?

      Does this diego.viola support reading English text?

      Is it possible to read the article summary without me having to paste it in this message?

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    2. Re:WebM/VP8 support by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

      I've got a quad-core desktop CPU, reasonably fast graphics card and Firefox completely chokes on 360p Youtube WebM videos, almost freezing my xserver in the process too. Waste of time, stick with chromium.

  61. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by herojig · · Score: 1

    Well this build seems to "impact" the standard install so that it's pretty much unusable, bookmarks are not transferred and none of the essential addons are compatible...however, it's easy to just go back by replacing the .app on a mac with a backup. I tried it, like it, but can't use it till addons like 1password or xmarks or downloadsthemall catch up.

    --
    I think therefore I can't be ~TTNH
  62. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by anss123 · · Score: 1

    Wow that's a great idea, if only there were some futuristic operating system that kept apps self-contained inside a single icon of some sort... that could be drag and dropped from one place to another... you could put them side by side in the same folder and stick a version number at the end of the name then run whichever you wanted.

    You can do this on Windows for most apps (it depends on how they're written) and there's no OS AFAIK that force its apps into a single folder (or icon as you put it - but encoding an app into an icon would be idiotic). On OSX most apps are delivered in a single folder, but it's not OS enforced and does not guarantee that you can run multiple versions of the app as it may still store it's settings/user data in such a way that they conflict.

  63. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by jafac · · Score: 1

    Firefox has way more add-ons and plugins.
    Adblock+flashblock+noscript+webdeveloper_toolbar+firebug+TorButton+betterprivacy+bugmenot+taco+passiverecon+sessionmanager+skipscreen+colorzilla+greasemonkey+httpseverywhere+measureit+showip+tabmix+viewsourcechart+tamperdata+mozillasniffer+trackmenot+xmarks. ..

    I can't imagine browsing without these add-ons. Chrome doesn't have them. Opera doesn't have them. IE. . . bwahahahaha!

    --

    These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  64. Restart after plugin install by gooogle · · Score: 1

    Is this fixed? Am I the only one who finds it extremely annoying to restart after each plugin install or update?

    --
    -- Binary Finary
    1. Re:Restart after plugin install by spiralx · · Score: 1

      No :)

  65. Shortcuts.... by specific · · Score: 1

    As long as they don't change anything about their keyboard shortcuts I'll live with the rest of the issues. Firefox has been losing my patience with all of it's bugs, but i'm attached to it's plugins and keyboard shortcuts. Everytime i've tried Opera or Chrome i come right back to Firefox, for those reasons. I hate Opera's keyboard shortcuts and Chrome's tabs-on-top layout.

    --
    If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.
  66. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by klui · · Score: 1

    Thanks for that!

    Copied places.sqlite, cookies.sqlite over to the portable version and I had my 3.x browsing history synced to 4beta.

    Under XP/Server 2003, only extensions that don't work correctly are Forecast Fox and BetterPrivacy. Add to SearchBar, FlashBlock, and oldBar work even though people have said it's incompatible.

  67. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by CritterNYC · · Score: 1

    The do? But oh wait you lose all your settings. And settings from one version of the app would be used for another, which could disable most of your extensions. So, ultimately, no... they don't.

  68. Official Linux and Mac 64 bit builds by spinkham · · Score: 2, Informative

    4.0 will be the first version with first class 64 bit support from Mozilla.
    For some reason, the 64 bit builds aren't on the main download site, but are available here:
    http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/4.0b1/

    Linux and Mac only at the moment, I assume Windows 64 bit builds are to follow in later versions.
    From the greatly improved performance scores, It appears that the tracing JIT is finally enabled on the Linux 64 bit version.

    /me is happy.

    Now where's my 64 bit flash adobe?

    --
    Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
    1. Re:Official Linux and Mac 64 bit builds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thanks for the link. I was like wtf where's 64?

      luckily i kept the buggy 10.0.45.2 64 bit flash before adobe dropped it.

    2. Re:Official Linux and Mac 64 bit builds by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      Thanks a ton for the link. I can't believe it wasn't listed on the site or more publicly announced!

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
  69. Several Reasons by CritterNYC · · Score: 1

    Several reasons that the portable installer stomps all over a zip file:
    1. The portable installer is a smaller download
    2. The portable installer doesn't require any external software to extract it
    3. The portable installer automatically detects an existing instance of the PortableApps.com Platform, offers to install into it, and tells the menu that a new app is installed so it can display it.
    4. The portable installer makes it easy to have options like whether to install additional languages without having to manually copy or delete files
    5. The portable installer supports upgrades and can handle moving, removing and updating files between versions as apps often change internal files on major version releases
    6. The portable installer can preserve any plugins or add-ons while handling point (5)
    7. The portable installer can download apps from online in the cases where we don't yet have permission to repackage them (at PortableApps.com, we only do legal apps)

  70. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it loads the ads it's inadequate.

  71. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by caseih · · Score: 1

    Unlike on Firefox, AdBlock for Chrome doesn't actually block the ads from loading. It simply prevents them from displaying.

  72. What about my extensions?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Almost none of them work with 4.0b1. :-(

  73. Re:Try it safely on your PC with Firefox Portable by klui · · Score: 1

    Forecast Fox could be made to work here http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1876795&sid=20e6ed03a165322bb459cf6a8a180d0d and BetterPrivacy's author has a developer build (1.47.5dev) that works under 4.0beta at http://netticat.ath.cx/Install The BetterPrivacy install crashed my machine (and I run as a limited user). After the restart, the add-on manager showed it installed correctly. I clicked on install multiple times due to me blocking the website from installing add-ons, and the add-on manager didn't allow me to remove extensions (duplicated) before the restart.

  74. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know you asked for FF4 but...

    FF3.6.6: 248 ms.
    Chrome5.0375.99: 551 ms.

    What was your point again?

  75. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by J053 · · Score: 1

    OK - Firefox 4 (4.0b2pre, x86_64, Kubuntu 10.04) 250ms
                    Chrome (5.0.375.86 beta, x86_64, Kubuntu 10.04) 787ms ... to draw the initial image. Expanding the same area on each, Chrome took 1797 ms, Firefox took 203 ms.

  76. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by Zelgadiss · · Score: 1

    Actually they fixed it a bit already.

    http://code.google.com/p/adblockforchrome/

    Some things will still slip through, but they are working on it.

  77. Chrome vs FF by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · · Score: 1

    While Chrome's lean UI can initially take some getting used to for former FF users (like myself), its actually quite a boon because Chrome's larger browsing area that is essential for most laptops' screen aspect ratio and smaller resolution. While Chrome lacks a dedicated searchbar for multiple search engines, one can be downloaded as an extension. I'm grateful for the new UI changes in FF beta because there are a few shortcomings of Google Chrome that I believe will not change anytime soon: 1. Chrome has no dedicated proxy settings (except thru CL arg). It relies on system proxy settings. 2. Chrome's extensions are not as powerful as FF's addons (ex: no NoScript) 3. Chrome still cannot do true adblocking (see #2). Current extensions only hide ads. 4. Chrome has a unique ID for its browsers, allowing Google to potentially track all its users. Note that #2 can be overcome with hostfiles or Privoxy but using Privoxy makes #1 an issue. For anonymous browsing, #4 can be overcome with Tor, which also makes #1 an issue. While Chrome does have on-the-fly js blocking, it only works on a per-page basis and lacks the granularity and features of FF's NoScript addon.

  78. Re:Now where's m4 bit flash adobe? by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · · Score: 1

    I hear you. Adobe has no love for 64-bit linux :*(

  79. Re:I'll never let go, Firefox. I'll never let go. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Unlike on Firefox, AdBlock for Chrome doesn't actually block the ads from loading. It simply prevents them from displaying.

    While I have seen some ads slip through on Chrome, Adblock 2.x on Chrome 6.x does block the ads from loading.

    Please try to be better-informed before posting. A quick google search would have saved you from this error. It will make you post fewer incorrect comments.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  80. Still no process separation of tabs by thsths · · Score: 1

    That feature is missing for ages now. One tab with bad Javascript can slow everything down, because Firefox still has neither multithreading nor separate processes for each tab. Most other browsers are ahead there.

  81. Re:First Post !! by AmigaMMC · · Score: 1

    After two days of using it it seems quite stable and I do like the new interface. I might just stick to 4 beta rather than 3.6 finished.