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Google's New Scheme To Avoid Unlicensed Music

An anonymous reader writes "Complaints about copyright infringement on YouTube keep Google busy. If you have any doubts, just look at the Viacom copyright suit. But the problems aren't just about uploaded videos, but sometimes the music accompanying the videos. A patent application shows that Google has worked on a system to automatically identify infringing music by comparing a digital signature of a soundtrack to signatures of existing music. Users who upload videos could opt to completely remove the video, swap the soundtrack for something approved, or to mute the video. Of course, there doesn't seem to be a provision if you're using existing music with permission."

50 of 213 comments (clear)

  1. Fair use? by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Really? I thought collages were fair use; how is it not fair use to combine music with an original video?

    --
    Palm trees and 8
    1. Re:Fair use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Really? I thought collages were fair use; how is it not fair use to combine music with an original video?

      Sections of music, yes, not an entire song.

    2. Re:Fair use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's a thing called "sync rights" - it's why you need to have permission / a contract to use music in TV / film.

      Beside the point, however - even if it *was* fair use (which it isn't) the MAFIAAs prefer to pretend that such a right doesn't exist, at least until they bribe enough pols to actually make it vanish.

    3. Re:Fair use? by sortius_nod · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It seems that it's not even fair use if you have express permission from the artist. My fiancée has had DMCA takedown notices from recording companies even after having express permission to use music on her blog from the artists themselves. The blog is a music blog reviewing bands, somehow using short clips of music attached to a positive review is seen as copyright infringement.

      I don't see how this is not fair use. Then again, record companies seem to love to twist the DMCA to mean anything they want. This stupid act is a waste of time and money, it protects no one and persecutes people doing the right thing. I have no doubt that these laws were developed to remove power from artists and fans.

    4. Re:Fair use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      This link: http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 specifies what is considered fair use. Using a recording in a personal video and publishing it online is not considered fair use according to law. HoweverIt may be considered a derivative work as covered in section: http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#103

    5. Re:Fair use? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sections of music, yes, not an entire song.

      That's why you'll seldom hear an entire record played on talk radio. The syndicators don't want to pay license fees.

      But the simplest solution is to use music from the enormous amount of music that's licensed under Creative Commons.

      Or does your creativity require you to use "Eye of the Tiger" for every single video of your sports team?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:Fair use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is in Canada, but they are trying hard to extinguish that right, with very DMCA oriented laws, and the ACTA treaty.

      FUCK YOU USA. I used to admire your freedoms, but since you don't produce shit, and bully and bribe everyone to force your laws on others, I think you are sort of like... a certain country you had a revolution to free yourself from.

      The US was founded largely on copyright infringement, the free flow of ideas, and ignoring British Business Patents (monopolies).

      Welcome to the new boss, same as the old boss.

    7. Re:Fair use? by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 3, Informative

      AFAIK there is no fair use exception for copyrighted music.

      Sure there is. The statute makes it clear that fair use applies to all copyrighted works. There are no exceptions. You're probably thinking of the de minimis doctrine, i.e. that copyright does not protect taking very small amounts of material from other works. Bridgeport, the most notorious sampling case, dealt with that; it didn't even mention fair use, IIRC. See, OTOH, the Pretty Woman case for an example of the Supreme Court supporting fair use in a music case.

      "Fair use" is a legal concept that was hammered out through litigation, not a commonsensical notion of "what is fair."

      Well... the concept is basically that if a use is fair, it shouldn't be considered infringing. There are tests to determine if a particular use, based on all the relevant circumstances, is fair, but there are no bright-line rules, and the case-by-case nature of the beast makes precedent shaky. While it's not as bad as some things (e.g. the utility doctrine, which is always a crapshoot), it does largely hinge on whether the judge feels in his gut if it's fair or not.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    8. Re:Fair use? by kevinmenzel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, the latest copyright bill in Canada specifically ALLOWS the use of copyrighted music in YouTube videos.

    9. Re:Fair use? by achbed · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sections of music, yes, not an entire song.

      That's why you'll seldom hear an entire record played on talk radio. The syndicators don't want to pay license fees.

      That is actually not true. There is a separate payment structure for short clips used in a blog or talk radio format as opposed to a full-song radio playback of the same songs. There are still rights payments for even short clips, but it is a heck of a lot cheaper (by a factor of 10 or more depending on revenue and profits of the licensing organization).

      The problem with this entire scheme is that there seems to be no way to say "I've paid the required fees not let me use the dang song". This kills even legal use of music. Not to mention that there is also no talk about "I'm the author dammit" option.

    10. Re:Fair use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm happy to hear these complaints. People will stop using copyrighted music, and the companies trying to suck blood from a stone will go broke with that much less exposure.

      Perhaps it's time to make a big push for ONLY public domain music to be used?

    11. Re:Fair use? by theheadlessrabbit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...the simplest solution is to use music from the enormous amount of music that's licensed under Creative Commons...
      Or does your creativity require you to use "Eye of the Tiger" for every single video of your sports team?

      it's not always about creativity, it's about what associations and ideas using popular materials brings to your work.

      if I record a video of myself running up the stairs, or take video of me punching a guy and freeze framing it right before fists connect, the connection I am reaching for might still be vague, adding "Eye of the Tiger" will instantly make my audience think of the Rocky franchise. If that is the connection I wish my audience to make, then yes, creativity does require the use of that particular song. Nothing else will do, no other song will make that same connection.
      This technique is called appropriation, and it can be a very powerful tool for artists.

      that being said, if they are using it just because 'eye of the tiger' is a good track for a sports event, then yea, it's lame and lazy; but there are times when using one specific element over another is necessary to make an artistic point.

      --
      -I only code in BASIC.-
    12. Re:Fair use? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2, Informative
      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
  2. Peer to peer by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If only there were a way to decentralize these things...

    --
    Palm trees and 8
    1. Re:Peer to peer by Pollardito · · Score: 4, Funny

      you mean sort of a You-and-You-and-YouTube?

  3. Um...reinventing the wheel by nordee · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is what Audible Magic does. Exactly.

    http://audiblemagic.com/index.asp

    So google is doing it again?

    --
    still no sig
    1. Re:Um...reinventing the wheel by Peach+Rings · · Score: 5, Informative

      Google has been doing this for years, it's a non-story. That's why you see "the soundtrack of this video has been silenced due to a copyright claim from x" all over the place.

    2. Re:Um...reinventing the wheel by mattventura · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe they're trying to make a filter that can't be bypassed easily. You can usually just shift the music up or down a note to slip it past the filter, and while audiophiles and the music-obsessed will complain about this, it's barely noticeable to the average viewer if done properly.

  4. Is this new? by raving+griff · · Score: 4, Informative

    Have they not been doing this already for certain artists that have opped into it? I know that Youtube has thrown me an error when attempting to upload a video with licensed music in it before and gave me the option of uploading with a disabled audio track. In fact, this system seems to have been rolled out in 2007.

    1. Re:Is this new? by EdIII · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The system may not be new, but the policies described most certainly are. What is proposed from the article is "presumption of guilt". Ignoring for the moment the awesomely infuriating and wholly unethical statement of "presumption of guilt", there will be some serious problems for such a system once live if these new policies are put into effect.

      Personally, I deal with hundreds, sometimes over a thousand, of these notices per day. What is absolutely batshit crazy is that we don't know who the hell these people are and what their music is. Google's (YouTube) system has made thousands upon thousands of mistakes already with just the system I manage. All of the content that is being uploaded has fully licensed music in it. Fully Licensed. We have disputed it a couple dozen times and attached proof. We have yet to hear ANYTHING from Google or YouTube. Nothing. Completely Ignored. We already gave up a long time ago.

      My impression is that if you were to walk into YouTube's offices there would be hundreds of phones ringing, emails appearing on desktops, and no human beings anywhere. Like some post apocalyptic movie scene where all human flesh dissolved and the world was left turning without us. A completely automated system running happily on it's own. Like SkyNet, except mentally challenged.

      Now if they really do move to this policy where our only options are to swap music or delete the video we might just have to close up shop. I am sure their music selections are going to suck something awful and be wholly unsuitable for us. You know that and.... we actually paid for our fucking music we won't be able to use.

    2. Re:Is this new? by EdIII · · Score: 3, Informative

      Believe me, I am right there with you.

      The problem is, at least for my clients, is brand awareness. In many ways YouTube severely limits their options, but everybody knows what YouTube is. It's like an eCommerce buzzword that puts the management types into orgasmic comas during meetings. My only option is walk out, get a Coke, relax a bit, take a walk, and come back when they are back to normal and used tissues are strewn about the conference table.

      YouTube is an absolutely horrible idea. Advertising is disallowed, and unless you are one of the blessed shiny people who get in to see the wizard, the YouTube API is crippled. I would almost go so far as to say maliciously and sadistically designed to inflict maximum pain upon developers. Even as we speak, the YouTube API operates in its own mini-ecosystem. Data that is available through YouTube proper takes an indeterminate amount of time to be available to the API. I have personally seen periods of 24-72 hours before search results returned by the API will contain the data I am looking for, that is instantly available through a search on their own web interface. API limits you to 2,000 total videos uploaded through the it. Some truly stupid and retarded policies and implementations. My only conclusion is that YouTube doesn't give a shit about developers or companies. I mean, it's FREE, so we should just shut up and be grateful for anything.... right?

      However, even with all the drawbacks, using YouTube allows businesses such as my client's, to advertise to users and investors that shiny YouTube logo on websites and presentation materials. I can explain the drawbacks all day long, but in the end, other business considerations win out... and YouTube is the choice going forward.

      It's Sad. It's Pathetic. It just enables YouTube to continue acting like sociopaths.

      P.S - The YouTube API is the most pathetic software ever developed by policy. That is my feeling. The developers on the project are nice enough, they do respond, but it seems like their hands are just tied getting anything done. It's always, "planned", but never released. Almost.. as.. if it was kept in Beta for years on end. Strange.

  5. Knowing which screw to turn by tepples · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Air costs nothing, making air move costs nothing, music in it self costs almost nothing to record

    It costs little to turn a screw, but it costs plenty to know which screw to turn.

    Musicians play live, musicians make their living with their performances. That should be the standard, if you can't perform live or sing without autotune, you are not a musician. Simple as that.

    I prefer to see a songwriter's position as closer to that of a magazine columnist or a book author: arranging words (or music) on a page and not necessarily expecting to have to perform them live.

    1. Re:Knowing which screw to turn by kz45 · · Score: 3, Informative

      "even though they now possess the knowledge and can do it themselves," ..so you know how to play all of the songs that you download?

      Many people like you confuse the hard work that put into making the album (which is not easy) and the split second it takes to copy the resulting work (which any moron on the Internet can do)

    2. Re:Knowing which screw to turn by santax · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah I thought about that one, but in real life we can see the top dj's and electro groups do perform live with greater success often than big 'rockbands'. It's ok to sample live. It's ok to press start on winamp, just make sure you give the audience a show. That's what they are paying for and that's where your money comes from. Not the albumsales. Albums are nothing more than commercials to get you into buying a ticket to a live show. But somewhere in the last 10 years some bastard decided that 20 million income from a worldtour just wasn't enough.... Real musicians play music all the time, for free. Because they love to do it and love to share it. This is also the reason imho that there are no more bands like Dire Straights or The Police or the next U2 or Queen. Those bands had a nice income from their albums, but the real money came always from tours. The albums were extra profit. Nice to have, nothing more. Twenty years ago any artist would be delighted to get airtime on the radio... now the big suits behind them want money for the privilege of being given airtime! It's insane! And what does that mean for us? Well, that good musicians won't be on the radio because the guy in the suit wants money for it and the band just isn't big enough yet.

    3. Re:Knowing which screw to turn by tehcyder · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are other ways of covering the cost of making the album. Its high time to start looking at them.

      Well, go on then.

      And please don't re-hash the "musicians should only be paid when they perform live" argument, it makes no sense. After all, once you have the sunk cost of setting up a gig, there is zero marginal cost for each additional member of the audience, so why should they pay anything?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  6. Work made for hire by tepples · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My fiancée has had DMCA takedown notices from recording companies even after having express permission to use music on her blog from the artists themselves.

    Whether those are valid depends on whether the artist had assigned the sound recording copyrights to the label in a contract. A composer or recording artist can't license rights that he had already sold to someone else.

    1. Re:Work made for hire by Redlazer · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Really? You don't think they have people just trolling and looking? Or perhaps more likely, some flawed, hacked together piece of software that attempts to do it automatically, with fingerprinting, or even worse, by filename?

      Fair use rules need to be expanded to work with the digital world. Adding a whole song to a video of your team (of whatever) playing a sport will in no way impact the original piece of work, it is very clearly a derivative, and should fall wholly and completely under fair use terms.

      All of the Big Content guys have sued or DMCA'ed anyone they possibly could, regardless of fair use. They constantly fail "checks" that people put online - work that is absolutely fair use, and it still gets DMCA'ed.

      I submit to you that in this situation, it is far more likely Viacom (or whoever) merely submitted a batch of DMCA's through an automated process that wrongfully flagged the same fair use (in this case, permitted) case.

      This is money grubbing bullshit. Counterfeiting and idea theft are NOT the same as personal use.

      --
      Guns don't kill people, "with glowing hearts" kills people.
    2. Re:Work made for hire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I do. I also believe, however, that they've hired lawyers good enough to make sure they own everything from their artists up to and including their own name, and that they've hired lobbyists good enough to make sure they can find a reason to sue an unborn child if they wanted to.

      Never underestimate the sheer capacity for evil of multinational conglomerates.

      Finally the Republican plan is revealed. They intend to get the corporations to sue every unborn child. This will then lead to injunctions against abortions. A clever scheme, brilliant in its intricacies.

  7. Campbell v. Acuff-Rose by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative

    AFAIK there is no fair use exception for copyrighted music.

    Not even in a video about how someone's music is similar to someone else's? A video like this would, in my view, fall squarely under the spirit of 17 USC 107, which specifically mentions "purposes such as criticism [or] comment" . I can see a defense for this under at least factors 1, 3, and 4, and the court in Luther Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music ruled the same way about a spoof of Roy Orbison's "Oh, Pretty Woman".

    1. Re:Campbell v. Acuff-Rose by bennomatic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's the problem; fair use rules aren't spelled out, so if someone comes after you, you have to defend it. Deep pockets win unless someone like the EFF is willing to take on your fight.

      I know this is a somewhat different topic, but it's still under the heading of ridiculous copyright BS. Here's one for the books; I recall that John Fogarty's old record label (from when he was with Creedence) sued him for copyright infringement because his solo stuff sounded too much like the stuff he'd written under contract with them. The dork only knows three chords and two rhythms; it was his signature, and when he went solo, they decided he couldn't take his signature with him.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
  8. Claim fair-use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    It seems that you can resolve copyright issues by claiming fair-use. I came across this post a few days at rcgroups. Scroll down to post #5 for the procedure.

    1. Re:Claim fair-use by X0563511 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Thanks.

      Note: you can link to specific posts using the top-right post number.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  9. Youtube isn't useful anymore by areusche · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have a bunch of really old student student news shows up on my personal account. The opening used at best 15 seconds of some random pop song du jour. The audio on the video is now completely muted because of god forbid 15 seconds of fair use music.

    It's not even worth the effort to edit and upload the videos. Youtube is no longer useful for what its intended purpose was.

    1. Re:Youtube isn't useful anymore by areusche · · Score: 3, Funny

      Odd, I must have a stuttering problem.

  10. Nah... by msauve · · Score: 3, Funny

    does your creativity require you to use "Eye of the Tiger" for every single video of your sports team?

    Creativity is rotating through Eye of the Tiger, We Are the Champions, Rock and Roll, part 2 and We Will Rock You.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  11. Not New by b1ng0 · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is known as a perceptual hash. We have a perceptual audio hash in pHash, my open source software project that will tell you how similar two media files are to each other. It also features an indexing system to find the best matches from a sample audio clip, a la Shazam. These algorithms are not new by any means, although this patent goes a bit further than simply matching audio samples.

  12. Google goes copyright absolutist by mbone · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Google has gone positively copyright absolutist - not just in YouTube (which, of course, grew up on a steady diet of infringement), but also in Adwords and maybe Adsense.

    Adwords now disallows ads with phrases like "music videos" or "Internet TV," under the theory that any site advertising such must be guilty of, not just infringement, but "hacking and cracking." As their standard of proof is "guilty until proven innocent," arguing with them is fairly frustrating...

  13. Perjury by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    it is far more likely Viacom (or whoever) merely submitted a batch of DMCA's through an automated process that wrongfully flagged the same fair use (in this case, permitted) case.

    OCILLA takedown notices are made under penalty of perjury. That'd be helpful if the FBI actually cared about copyright perjury.

    1. Re:Perjury by arth1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Can one claim believing it to be true without even having heard the alleged infringement first? That appears to be the case with the automated takedown notices, and I find it very strange that judges let that pass. If not outright perjury, at the very least I'd expect them to see it as contempt for the law.

  14. The entertainment companies go too far sometimes by Nemilar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I completely "get it" that the entertainment companies need to protect their copyrighted material. That's their product, and it's how they make money; fair enough that they don't want people exploiting it.

    But here's an example of them going too far: The other day I was watching clips from The West Wing on Youtube. I'm not sure how exactly I got there, but regardless, it was one of my favorite shows back in the day, even though the West Wing franchise never got a dime from me either through product purchases or ads. But after seeing a couple of clips, I was reminded of how much I liked the show, and started to consider purchasing the DVD set -- until I clicked on a clip that had no sound. Then I saw that great "this video contains audio not approved by..." on the top of the screen.

    Needless to say, that killed the viewing experience right there. I think when the entertainment companies revisit the sheer dollars and cents, they might see that it's beneficial to leave a lot of this copyrighted material up there -- it might generate a few sales.

    --
    Nemilar http://www.techthrob.com - Visit Me!
  15. Re:fair use by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

    There also needs to be a fair use option.

    There is. If YouTube's Audible Magic server detects a match, it lists the video in Content ID Matches, where the uploader can file a dispute. One of the dispute options is "This use does not require the copyright owner's permission", such as fair use.

  16. shut it down by blueworm · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Google should say, "Because it is too difficult in the United States, the land of freedom, to offer a public venue for the sharing of creative works and the preservation of culture, we have opted to shut down youtube entirely. We sincerely hope that such services can return in a time less plagued by corruption and greed."

  17. pitch adjustment by tlacuache · · Score: 5, Informative

    From my experience, adjusting the pitch of the audio by +4% (without altering its duration) is enough to fool Google's algorithm without being noticeable/distracting, unless you're playing the original song and the altered song side-by-side.

    1. Re:pitch adjustment by Mandrel · · Score: 2, Informative

      From my experience, adjusting the pitch of the audio by +4% (without altering its duration) is enough to fool Google's algorithm without being noticeable/distracting, unless you're playing the original song and the altered song side-by-side.

      Yes, 4% faster is already what 24fps material becomes when played on 25/50fps TV systems. Only people with perfect pitch can easily detect the difference, and the TV stations love it because they can fit in 4% more ads. Perhaps Google can detect a simple speed-up, but not when the audio is DSPed to shift the pitch but not the duration like you suggest.

      Also, I have seen a music video on YouTube from an unofficial source that reversed the picture left-right. This, perhaps in combination with a pitch shift, may be what has allowed it to survive deletion.

  18. Re:Please wake up. by nomadic · · Score: 3, Informative

    Musicians play live, musicians make their living with their performances.

    Except for those who don't.

  19. Some personal experience by theGhostPony · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've got a video up right now (over 21,000 views) consisting of a series of photos of an antique car that I'm restoring accompanied by a complete U2 song. Total run time is over 3 minutes. There is a notation under a copyright information button that states...

    Your video, Xxxxxxxx, may include content that is owned or licensed by these content owners:
    Content owner: UMG Type: Audio content

    What should I do?
    No action is required on your part. Your video is still available worldwide. In some cases ads may appear next to your video.


    The video's been online for over two years.

    --
    /. Dissent will not be tolerated. Think like us or perish.
  20. That's what they want... by Xenographic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, they shouldn't. That's exactly what the RIAA wants. They want to monopolize all the money being made from music.

    What they should *really* do is to compare all of the RIAAs songs with one another to point out exactly how unoriginal they are (especially if they compare them to old songs where the lyrics arrangement, if not the recording rights, should be in the public domain). After all, there's not much that's truly original and Hollywood was founded by people evading Edison's patent enforcers.

    Given their attitudes, they would start a war of litigation amongst themselves, leaving them with less money and fewer lawyers to bother the rest of us with. Also, it would be interesting to point out exactly where certain haughty folks got their ideas from. There are only just so many notes and with the small number required for a court to find infringement, I can't help but think that they'd infringe upon *something.*

    A map of who has "stolen" (to borrow their word) from whom would be quite interesting, as well.

  21. It's already in use and does not work by Gunstick · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I used my video camera to film a circus performance. The video was disabled because the sound from the loudspeakers was on my video and that sound was copyrighted music.
    At the same time, the same music title was spread around youtube in full glory with accompanying original video clip in dozens of copies and was not blocked. Why is my analog recording blocked and the digital 1:1 copies are not?

    Faire use, my ass!

    --
    Atari rules... ermm... ruled.
  22. Synchronization rights by PatHMV · · Score: 2, Informative

    At heart, the synchronization rights comes from the basic copyright itself. The copyright holder has the statutory legal right to prohibit or authorize any particular use of the song. However, the copyright statute itself does not distinguish between whether the music is copied by itself or synchronized with a motion picture. Both are equally prohibited without the consent of the copyright holder.

    Over the years, as publishers tried to maximize their earnings and simplify licensing procedures, they created the idea of synchronization rights, and wrote those into their licensing agreements. So, for example, anybody who pays appropriate fees to a licensing agency such as BMI or ASCAP is buying the right to play the songs they are licensed to provide, but when you read the fine print, you will see that the publisher/owner of the copyright is licensing, through ASCAP to you, only the right to play the song itself in your bar or wherever, not the right to do anything else with it. The license is carefully written to not grant you the license to do other things with the music, such as uploading it, redistributing it to others, or synchronizing it with a motion picture and using it for that purpose. To do that, they sell you a different license which DOES include the synchronization rights, but doesn't include stuff in the ASCAP license.

  23. Re:Please wake up. by wzzzzrd · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well, there are a lot of artists doing electronic music which is hard/ impossible to perform. Sound collages, that kind of thing. It would be really stupid to say "if it can't be performed, it's not music".

    --
    On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.