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Google's New Scheme To Avoid Unlicensed Music

An anonymous reader writes "Complaints about copyright infringement on YouTube keep Google busy. If you have any doubts, just look at the Viacom copyright suit. But the problems aren't just about uploaded videos, but sometimes the music accompanying the videos. A patent application shows that Google has worked on a system to automatically identify infringing music by comparing a digital signature of a soundtrack to signatures of existing music. Users who upload videos could opt to completely remove the video, swap the soundtrack for something approved, or to mute the video. Of course, there doesn't seem to be a provision if you're using existing music with permission."

28 of 213 comments (clear)

  1. Fair use? by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Really? I thought collages were fair use; how is it not fair use to combine music with an original video?

    --
    Palm trees and 8
    1. Re:Fair use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Really? I thought collages were fair use; how is it not fair use to combine music with an original video?

      Sections of music, yes, not an entire song.

    2. Re:Fair use? by sortius_nod · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It seems that it's not even fair use if you have express permission from the artist. My fiancée has had DMCA takedown notices from recording companies even after having express permission to use music on her blog from the artists themselves. The blog is a music blog reviewing bands, somehow using short clips of music attached to a positive review is seen as copyright infringement.

      I don't see how this is not fair use. Then again, record companies seem to love to twist the DMCA to mean anything they want. This stupid act is a waste of time and money, it protects no one and persecutes people doing the right thing. I have no doubt that these laws were developed to remove power from artists and fans.

    3. Re:Fair use? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sections of music, yes, not an entire song.

      That's why you'll seldom hear an entire record played on talk radio. The syndicators don't want to pay license fees.

      But the simplest solution is to use music from the enormous amount of music that's licensed under Creative Commons.

      Or does your creativity require you to use "Eye of the Tiger" for every single video of your sports team?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:Fair use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is in Canada, but they are trying hard to extinguish that right, with very DMCA oriented laws, and the ACTA treaty.

      FUCK YOU USA. I used to admire your freedoms, but since you don't produce shit, and bully and bribe everyone to force your laws on others, I think you are sort of like... a certain country you had a revolution to free yourself from.

      The US was founded largely on copyright infringement, the free flow of ideas, and ignoring British Business Patents (monopolies).

      Welcome to the new boss, same as the old boss.

    5. Re:Fair use? by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 3, Informative

      AFAIK there is no fair use exception for copyrighted music.

      Sure there is. The statute makes it clear that fair use applies to all copyrighted works. There are no exceptions. You're probably thinking of the de minimis doctrine, i.e. that copyright does not protect taking very small amounts of material from other works. Bridgeport, the most notorious sampling case, dealt with that; it didn't even mention fair use, IIRC. See, OTOH, the Pretty Woman case for an example of the Supreme Court supporting fair use in a music case.

      "Fair use" is a legal concept that was hammered out through litigation, not a commonsensical notion of "what is fair."

      Well... the concept is basically that if a use is fair, it shouldn't be considered infringing. There are tests to determine if a particular use, based on all the relevant circumstances, is fair, but there are no bright-line rules, and the case-by-case nature of the beast makes precedent shaky. While it's not as bad as some things (e.g. the utility doctrine, which is always a crapshoot), it does largely hinge on whether the judge feels in his gut if it's fair or not.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    6. Re:Fair use? by achbed · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sections of music, yes, not an entire song.

      That's why you'll seldom hear an entire record played on talk radio. The syndicators don't want to pay license fees.

      That is actually not true. There is a separate payment structure for short clips used in a blog or talk radio format as opposed to a full-song radio playback of the same songs. There are still rights payments for even short clips, but it is a heck of a lot cheaper (by a factor of 10 or more depending on revenue and profits of the licensing organization).

      The problem with this entire scheme is that there seems to be no way to say "I've paid the required fees not let me use the dang song". This kills even legal use of music. Not to mention that there is also no talk about "I'm the author dammit" option.

    7. Re:Fair use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm happy to hear these complaints. People will stop using copyrighted music, and the companies trying to suck blood from a stone will go broke with that much less exposure.

      Perhaps it's time to make a big push for ONLY public domain music to be used?

  2. Um...reinventing the wheel by nordee · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is what Audible Magic does. Exactly.

    http://audiblemagic.com/index.asp

    So google is doing it again?

    --
    still no sig
    1. Re:Um...reinventing the wheel by Peach+Rings · · Score: 5, Informative

      Google has been doing this for years, it's a non-story. That's why you see "the soundtrack of this video has been silenced due to a copyright claim from x" all over the place.

  3. Is this new? by raving+griff · · Score: 4, Informative

    Have they not been doing this already for certain artists that have opped into it? I know that Youtube has thrown me an error when attempting to upload a video with licensed music in it before and gave me the option of uploading with a disabled audio track. In fact, this system seems to have been rolled out in 2007.

    1. Re:Is this new? by EdIII · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The system may not be new, but the policies described most certainly are. What is proposed from the article is "presumption of guilt". Ignoring for the moment the awesomely infuriating and wholly unethical statement of "presumption of guilt", there will be some serious problems for such a system once live if these new policies are put into effect.

      Personally, I deal with hundreds, sometimes over a thousand, of these notices per day. What is absolutely batshit crazy is that we don't know who the hell these people are and what their music is. Google's (YouTube) system has made thousands upon thousands of mistakes already with just the system I manage. All of the content that is being uploaded has fully licensed music in it. Fully Licensed. We have disputed it a couple dozen times and attached proof. We have yet to hear ANYTHING from Google or YouTube. Nothing. Completely Ignored. We already gave up a long time ago.

      My impression is that if you were to walk into YouTube's offices there would be hundreds of phones ringing, emails appearing on desktops, and no human beings anywhere. Like some post apocalyptic movie scene where all human flesh dissolved and the world was left turning without us. A completely automated system running happily on it's own. Like SkyNet, except mentally challenged.

      Now if they really do move to this policy where our only options are to swap music or delete the video we might just have to close up shop. I am sure their music selections are going to suck something awful and be wholly unsuitable for us. You know that and.... we actually paid for our fucking music we won't be able to use.

    2. Re:Is this new? by EdIII · · Score: 3, Informative

      Believe me, I am right there with you.

      The problem is, at least for my clients, is brand awareness. In many ways YouTube severely limits their options, but everybody knows what YouTube is. It's like an eCommerce buzzword that puts the management types into orgasmic comas during meetings. My only option is walk out, get a Coke, relax a bit, take a walk, and come back when they are back to normal and used tissues are strewn about the conference table.

      YouTube is an absolutely horrible idea. Advertising is disallowed, and unless you are one of the blessed shiny people who get in to see the wizard, the YouTube API is crippled. I would almost go so far as to say maliciously and sadistically designed to inflict maximum pain upon developers. Even as we speak, the YouTube API operates in its own mini-ecosystem. Data that is available through YouTube proper takes an indeterminate amount of time to be available to the API. I have personally seen periods of 24-72 hours before search results returned by the API will contain the data I am looking for, that is instantly available through a search on their own web interface. API limits you to 2,000 total videos uploaded through the it. Some truly stupid and retarded policies and implementations. My only conclusion is that YouTube doesn't give a shit about developers or companies. I mean, it's FREE, so we should just shut up and be grateful for anything.... right?

      However, even with all the drawbacks, using YouTube allows businesses such as my client's, to advertise to users and investors that shiny YouTube logo on websites and presentation materials. I can explain the drawbacks all day long, but in the end, other business considerations win out... and YouTube is the choice going forward.

      It's Sad. It's Pathetic. It just enables YouTube to continue acting like sociopaths.

      P.S - The YouTube API is the most pathetic software ever developed by policy. That is my feeling. The developers on the project are nice enough, they do respond, but it seems like their hands are just tied getting anything done. It's always, "planned", but never released. Almost.. as.. if it was kept in Beta for years on end. Strange.

  4. Knowing which screw to turn by tepples · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Air costs nothing, making air move costs nothing, music in it self costs almost nothing to record

    It costs little to turn a screw, but it costs plenty to know which screw to turn.

    Musicians play live, musicians make their living with their performances. That should be the standard, if you can't perform live or sing without autotune, you are not a musician. Simple as that.

    I prefer to see a songwriter's position as closer to that of a magazine columnist or a book author: arranging words (or music) on a page and not necessarily expecting to have to perform them live.

    1. Re:Knowing which screw to turn by kz45 · · Score: 3, Informative

      "even though they now possess the knowledge and can do it themselves," ..so you know how to play all of the songs that you download?

      Many people like you confuse the hard work that put into making the album (which is not easy) and the split second it takes to copy the resulting work (which any moron on the Internet can do)

  5. Work made for hire by tepples · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My fiancée has had DMCA takedown notices from recording companies even after having express permission to use music on her blog from the artists themselves.

    Whether those are valid depends on whether the artist had assigned the sound recording copyrights to the label in a contract. A composer or recording artist can't license rights that he had already sold to someone else.

    1. Re:Work made for hire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      I do. I also believe, however, that they've hired lawyers good enough to make sure they own everything from their artists up to and including their own name, and that they've hired lobbyists good enough to make sure they can find a reason to sue an unborn child if they wanted to.

      Never underestimate the sheer capacity for evil of multinational conglomerates.

      Finally the Republican plan is revealed. They intend to get the corporations to sue every unborn child. This will then lead to injunctions against abortions. A clever scheme, brilliant in its intricacies.

  6. Campbell v. Acuff-Rose by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative

    AFAIK there is no fair use exception for copyrighted music.

    Not even in a video about how someone's music is similar to someone else's? A video like this would, in my view, fall squarely under the spirit of 17 USC 107, which specifically mentions "purposes such as criticism [or] comment" . I can see a defense for this under at least factors 1, 3, and 4, and the court in Luther Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music ruled the same way about a spoof of Roy Orbison's "Oh, Pretty Woman".

    1. Re:Campbell v. Acuff-Rose by bennomatic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's the problem; fair use rules aren't spelled out, so if someone comes after you, you have to defend it. Deep pockets win unless someone like the EFF is willing to take on your fight.

      I know this is a somewhat different topic, but it's still under the heading of ridiculous copyright BS. Here's one for the books; I recall that John Fogarty's old record label (from when he was with Creedence) sued him for copyright infringement because his solo stuff sounded too much like the stuff he'd written under contract with them. The dork only knows three chords and two rhythms; it was his signature, and when he went solo, they decided he couldn't take his signature with him.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
  7. Youtube isn't useful anymore by areusche · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have a bunch of really old student student news shows up on my personal account. The opening used at best 15 seconds of some random pop song du jour. The audio on the video is now completely muted because of god forbid 15 seconds of fair use music.

    It's not even worth the effort to edit and upload the videos. Youtube is no longer useful for what its intended purpose was.

    1. Re:Youtube isn't useful anymore by areusche · · Score: 3, Funny

      Odd, I must have a stuttering problem.

  8. Nah... by msauve · · Score: 3, Funny

    does your creativity require you to use "Eye of the Tiger" for every single video of your sports team?

    Creativity is rotating through Eye of the Tiger, We Are the Champions, Rock and Roll, part 2 and We Will Rock You.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  9. Not New by b1ng0 · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is known as a perceptual hash. We have a perceptual audio hash in pHash, my open source software project that will tell you how similar two media files are to each other. It also features an indexing system to find the best matches from a sample audio clip, a la Shazam. These algorithms are not new by any means, although this patent goes a bit further than simply matching audio samples.

  10. Re:Peer to peer by Pollardito · · Score: 4, Funny

    you mean sort of a You-and-You-and-YouTube?

  11. Google goes copyright absolutist by mbone · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Google has gone positively copyright absolutist - not just in YouTube (which, of course, grew up on a steady diet of infringement), but also in Adwords and maybe Adsense.

    Adwords now disallows ads with phrases like "music videos" or "Internet TV," under the theory that any site advertising such must be guilty of, not just infringement, but "hacking and cracking." As their standard of proof is "guilty until proven innocent," arguing with them is fairly frustrating...

  12. Re:fair use by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

    There also needs to be a fair use option.

    There is. If YouTube's Audible Magic server detects a match, it lists the video in Content ID Matches, where the uploader can file a dispute. One of the dispute options is "This use does not require the copyright owner's permission", such as fair use.

  13. pitch adjustment by tlacuache · · Score: 5, Informative

    From my experience, adjusting the pitch of the audio by +4% (without altering its duration) is enough to fool Google's algorithm without being noticeable/distracting, unless you're playing the original song and the altered song side-by-side.

  14. Re:Please wake up. by nomadic · · Score: 3, Informative

    Musicians play live, musicians make their living with their performances.

    Except for those who don't.