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US Plans Cyber Shield For Private Companies and Utilities

wiggles writes "The federal government is launching an expansive program dubbed 'Perfect Citizen' to detect cyber assaults on private companies and government agencies running such critical infrastructure as the electricity grid and nuclear-power plants, according to people familiar with the program. The surveillance by the National Security Agency, the government's chief eavesdropping agency, would rely on a set of sensors deployed in computer networks for critical infrastructure that would be triggered by unusual activity suggesting an impending cyber attack, though it wouldn't persistently monitor the whole system, these people said. How do we feel about NSA spyware in all of our infrastructure?"

178 comments

  1. Surveillance by SquarePixel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, because more surveillance is what is needed. Every year it goes further and further. The good thing is that at least they know to take it slowly - increase the surveillance just a little bit at a time and people wont really complain or notice. In a few years you will be there, just like with UK.

    I would think that internet infrastructure belongs to the "critical" category too. Just tell your political opinions in a private conversation to someone, say you don't like the mayor and expect a lawsuit. How long until "harmful content" like P2P and porn starts to get blocked? Looks like USA is not that far from China after all.

    And a name like a "Perfect Citizen"...

    1. Re:Surveillance by Pojut · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seriously? Calm down. They aren't monitoring the communication of private citizens, they are monitoring incoming connections on critical infrastructure systems.

      Besides, monitoring the communication of private citizens happened a while ago under a happy little thing called the Patriot Act. ::flamesuit::

    2. Re:Surveillance by causality · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Seriously? Calm down. They aren't monitoring the communication of private citizens, they are monitoring incoming connections on critical infrastructure systems.

      Besides, monitoring the communication of private citizens happened a while ago under a happy little thing called the Patriot Act. ::flamesuit::

      The mention of the Patriot Act was apropos. That's because when I first saw the name of this, "Perfect Citizen", I wondered whether that sounded Orwellian to anyone else.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    3. Re:Surveillance by rotide · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm no tinfoilhatter (see my post history) and I can easily state that the government does and has been monitoring communications of citizens since before the PATRIOT Act.

      Google any of the following:
      Project Echelon
      FBI Carnivore
      FBI NarusInsight

      This isn't fear mongering against the government. Those are actual programs/projects the government uses to watch those they want to watch. Actively, passively, whatever it is it doesn't change the fact that the government has the means and the will to watch those it finds worth watching.

      Now, to think that the new system will watch international connections only is short sighted. All you have to do is argue that an "enemy" could bounce through an internal (to the US) proxy and the government would have wholesale reason to peek at _every_ connection, foreign or domestic.

    4. Re:Surveillance by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >>>hey aren't monitoring the communication of private citizens, they are monitoring incoming connections on critical infrastructure systems.

      Like the smart meters being installed in Californian homes. All they need to do now is upgrade the firmware to include a little NSA spyware (literally) so they can how much energy you are using & what it was for. ("Running grow lamps in the basement - mmm interesting. Notify the Drug Agency.")

      Patriot Act sucks

      The Patriot Renewal Act which Obama signed sucks even more. At least George Duh Bush could claim he didn't know what was in the bill whe he signed it in 2001, but Obama observed the direct consequences of the law (police entering homes w/ self-written warrants; spying on communications; arrests without right of trial). He should have vetoed that bill.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    5. Re:Surveillance by Pojut · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Regardless, as I've said many times on this site...in the year 2010, honestly thinking that most if not all digital communication that you engage in isn't tracked, monitored, or recorded at SOME POINT, either by a company or by the government, is just foolish. I operate under the assumption that I have zero privacy with my cell phone and online, and act accordingly.

    6. Re:Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol you still believe in Obama..

    7. Re:Surveillance by Tmack · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Seriously? Calm down. They aren't monitoring the communication of private citizens, they are monitoring incoming connections on critical infrastructure systems.

      Besides, monitoring the communication of private citizens happened a while ago under a happy little thing called the Patriot Act. ::flamesuit::

      FTFA:

      A U.S. military official called the program long overdue and said any intrusion into privacy is no greater than what the public already endures from traffic cameras. It's a logical extension of the work federal agencies have done in the past to protect physical attacks on critical infrastructure that could sabotage the government or key parts of the country, the official said.

      They basically come out and directly say they are taking advantage of a slippery slope and happily sliding down it. So monitoring people driving is the same as watching what they are doing online.... yeh, thats not a slippery-slope argument at all </sarcasm> Next is, well, we already monitor the critical infrastructure, why not just all corporations, why not just all ISPs and all home users, then we could really catch all those sleepercell terrrrists at home!! yeh1!! its just like red-light cameras.

      Tm

      --
      Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
    8. Re:Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously? Calm down. They aren't monitoring the communication of private citizens

      You don't understand do you. This is just the beginning. That kind of power is like a black hole. The closer you get the less control you have till you just can't break free. Who watches these people? Don't tell me Congress will watch them. They don't have a fucking clue. You'd better to be ready to fight for your civil liberties. /tinfoilhat

    9. Re:Surveillance by slick7 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      when I first saw the name of this, "Perfect Citizen", I wondered whether that sounded Orwellian to anyone else.

      To paraphrase a quote, "The only Perfect Citizen is a totally subjugated and suppressed citizen".
      To really secure the infrastructure, a system of up-links and down-links to the TDRS satellites would be more secure. If land-based connectivity is required, then dedicated fiber-optics is a good bet. Just by-pass the internet altogether.

      --
      The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
    10. Re:Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? Should I really care that the feds will be snooping on data being sent to our critical networked infrastructure? Stop acting so self-righteous. The federal government has an obligation to monitor things that are of vital national interest like the power grid. I for one am glad they're finally being proactive about security for a change, instead of passing the buck until a major crisis happens and then forming 20 commissions to investigate what went wrong.

    11. Re:Surveillance by LilGuy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ahhh the good old days of Echelon. If only we could go back to such simpler times. :)

      --

      You're nothing; like me.
    12. Re:Surveillance by bonch · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Don't worry, all the people who would have bashed Bush for doing this will defend it because it's Obama.

      P.S. Sure can't wait for "net neutrality." What could possibly go wrong with having the government regulate internet traffic?

    13. Re:Surveillance by dave562 · · Score: 1

      The OP is right on target. I'm sure the government would consider "backbone routers at Tier1 ISPs" critical infrastructure. Given the compliant Congress and our society's lack of actually generating real material goods anymore, it isn't too much of a stretch to imagine the RIAA/MPAA convincing Congress that P2P is a serious threat to the economy. Oh noes, cyber-attacking pirates off the fiber-port bow!!! Shut down teh intartubez! Save the contents!!!

    14. Re:Surveillance by tibman · · Score: 1

      My guess is intel agencies already have access to power consumption numbers.. though not live data, like a smart meter provides. I really don't think it's that useful though.. does a plug-in hybrid look like a rack of grow lights? Or a rendering cluster? Or a water-splitting setup? But i do think it would be bad for them to have access to. If i had that data, i could plan my raids around the times of least usage.. under the assumption that everyone is asleep or out of the house. It could be useful in a very short list of situations though.

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    15. Re:Surveillance by chill · · Score: 1

      If by "stretch" you mean "already done", then you're right.

      http://slashdot.org/~chill/journal/252992

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    16. Re:Surveillance by mrbofus · · Score: 3, Informative

      What the submitter forgot to include is that this is an opt-in program; companies can choose to have their networks monitored by the government. Might have helped in a case like the Google/China hacking incidient.

    17. Re:Surveillance by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Yeah but now they are putting meters inside appliances which will communicate with the central smart meter (house thermostat). So they'll be able to see if it's a plug-in hybrid or a rack of grow lights.

      Aside-

      Thank $deity that firefox has redline spell-checking. My fingers must be numb today - all kinds of typos

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    18. Re:Surveillance by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      The OP is right on target. I'm sure the government would consider "backbone routers at Tier1 ISPs" critical infrastructure. Given the compliant Congress and our society's lack of actually generating real material goods anymore, it isn't too much of a stretch to imagine the RIAA/MPAA convincing Congress that P2P is a serious threat to the economy. Oh noes, cyber-attacking pirates off the fiber-port bow!!! Shut down teh intartubez! Save the contents!!!

      Bingo!
      The implied situation is that Tier 1 ISP's don't do have IDS and appropriate procedures in place and need help from the government to look to the security of their networks and systems. Somehow, I think that the ISP's are already doing a far better job of this than some low-bid government contractor will. Though, as we've seen, utility companies..., maybe not so much. Fine, draft regulations and then enforce them with meaningful penalties for failure to comply. Don't suggest that "the government" can do a better job because, when it comes to cyber security especially, it's track record is spotty, at best.

    19. Re:Surveillance by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Which works great until $serious_spy_agency splices the fiber somewhere and takes over everything.

      Air-gap security is all fine and good against casual hackers, but still leaves you with an awfully gooey center. I don't know why Slashdotters keep advocating it as such a panacea.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    20. Re:Surveillance by locallyunscene · · Score: 1
      RTFA:

      Some companies may agree to have the NSA put its own sensors on and others may ask for direction on what sensors to buy and come to an agreement about what data they will then share with the government, industry and government officials said.

      While the government can't force companies to work with it, it can provide incentives to urge them to cooperate, particularly if the government already buys services from that company, officials said.

      They don't need to do any firmware upgrades. All the data all ready goes to those energy companies. It will be up to them to decide what to share with the NSA.

    21. Re:Surveillance by Hylandr · · Score: 1

      You are assuming the rack of glow lights has the ability to identify itself to the smart meter. Legacy devices will never register. Their usage can be metered, but the sum aggregate of the legacy devices will be indistinguishable from 1 big device or one hundred small ones.

      Push comes to shove I have enough electrical know how to open simple devices and cut out the 'smart' circuit. Things like TV's might be able to require a signal from the smart device to operate but who cares how long the tv is on for?

      Any device pulling power for an activity criminal in nature can be easily bypassed, and you can't make the legacy devices illegal to prevent them from getting on the 'smart grid'.

      Good luck with this one.

      - Dan.

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    22. Re:Surveillance by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The summary for the submitted article misses almost EVERY important aspect to this story, as it was initially reported! It almost looks like an attempt to deliberately minimize concern over the dubious legality and suspect agenda for "Perfect Citizen".

      In fact, Samzenpus and "Wiggles" seem content not to mention the program's Orwellian name, nor the specific use of the term "Big Brother" by Ratheon contractors associated with the NSA on this effort.

      Here is the summary I supplied, when submitting this story as a front-pager for Slashdot. I believe that it is more cogent and INFORMATIVE than the blandness offered us.

      The WSJ is reporting on an $100M NSA program "to detect cyber assaults on private companies and government agencies running such critical infrastructure as the electricity grid and nuclear-power plants." All of which sound nice enough, if one does not become critically focused on the name they chose for this effort: 'Perfect Citizen'. Releasing this to the WSJ has the appearance of PR cover for the expansion of both warrantless surveillance and the intrusion of the NSA into a theatre of domestic operations.
      Ratheon, the NSA contractor charged with realizing the NSA vision for the 'Perfect Citizen' program openly called this the "Big Brother" system, in internal communications.

      For once, I really wouldn't mind a "dupe" story, either my summary or that of another poster with some insight to the implications of "Perfect Citizen".

      --
      "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
    23. Re:Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, all the people who would have bashed Bush for doing this will defend it because it's Obama.

      Name one.

      P.S. Sure can't wait for "net neutrality." What could possibly go wrong with having the government regulate internet traffic?

      Why do you insist on lying about what net neutrality means? Because you know you're not mentally competent to argue effectively against what it actually means. That is literally the only possible answer.

    24. Re:Surveillance by chill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Speaking of which...

      On June 25th, just a few days ago, the original UKUSA agreement that set up Echelon was declassified and published. It includes a number of supporting documents as well.

      http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/declass/ukusa.shtml

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    25. Re:Surveillance by badboy_tw2002 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, its too bad they don't include more unsubstantiated facts and editorial opinions with strong biases in the summaries. I was just thinking how much I was missing that!

    26. Re:Surveillance by n0084ever · · Score: 0

      yeah. that's EXACTLY what we need is more government interference with business, and the way they operate. (see SSA, USPS, dept of education, etc) since they do such a great job at what they manage already.

      Don't suggest that "the government" can do a better job because, when it comes to cyber security especially, it's track record is spotty, at best.

      and I don't think the government can or will do a better job of tracking or monitoring anything - given their track record on any government operation.

    27. Re:Surveillance by tibman · · Score: 1

      The appliances bit is where i get nervous. There are so many cool things we can do with sensors, monitoring, and automation in our homes.. but almost all of them are double edged swords.

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    28. Re:Surveillance by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      ("Running grow lamps in the basement - mmm interesting. Notify the Drug Agency.")

      That's my tanning booth, you insensitive clod.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    29. Re:Surveillance by jgtg32a · · Score: 1

      I seem to remember Carnivore being a huge "letdown" when detail of what it could actually do came out, IIRC the program itself could be recreated in perl in about 15 min. Not that I'm defending the program, it was just meh in its capabilities

    30. Re:Surveillance by node_chomsky · · Score: 1

      Yeah but now they are putting meters inside appliances which will communicate with the central smart meter (house thermostat). So they'll be able to see if it's a plug-in hybrid or a rack of grow lights.

      And they put chips in your dog's ass to track how many times it poops every day.

    31. Re:Surveillance by lonecrow · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Hmmm...I am not sure if I would get all worked up over the name. This portion of the article seems to alleviate some concerns:

      Some companies may agree to have the NSA put its own sensors on and others may ask for direction on what sensors to buy and come to an agreement about what data they will then share with the government, industry and government officials said.

      I do not see this as akin to the mass wiretapping of individuals of a previous administration. This is traffic pattern detection by the sounds of it. So for example, if malicious patterns were detected perhaps an auto-cutoff of the plant from the internet could be triggered.

      But perhaps another approach to this would be to ask you how you would go about protecting these assets from cyber-attack without violating civil liberties?

      I am going to take a wild guess that it would involve monitoring broad and anonymous traffic patterns which is what this sounds like. Then if malicious patterns were detected due process would kick in to the investigation of any individuals involved.

      Please share any better way you can think of?

    32. Re:Surveillance by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>You are assuming the rack of glow lights has the ability to identify itself to the smart meter. Legacy devices will never register.

      Good point but it doesn't really matter. Cops usually look for sudden spikes in power usage, or high usage, that indicates a growing operation. But now with smart meters the cops don't need to look - the meter can be programmed to automatically flag itself, and then the DEA can investigate.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    33. Re:Surveillance by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Cops usually look for sudden spikes in power usage, or high usage, that indicates a growing operation.

      That's not true. Cops don't regularly conduct fishing operations of utility records to find growers. Stop making things up. Under what authority can you claim that cops usually do that?

      Cops do IR camera fly-bys, looking for the heat generated by a grow op (falls, debatedly, under "in plain sight"). Or if they have reason to suspect, they subpoena the utility for the records.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    34. Re:Surveillance by orient · · Score: 1

      Romania's Nicolae Ceasusescu was - finally! - removed from power by KGB agents in 1989 (among others) because he diverted the surveillance resources from monitoring the KGB agents to monitoring his own associates - relatives and high ranking communist party members.

      --
      Laudele lor desigur m-ar mahni peste masura.
    35. Re:Surveillance by Time+Ed · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Naris in ATT's infrastucture. Who knows what else is out there. Why not put it to better use?

      Without posting a lot of citations, utilities in general have a poor record of system maintenance and security and its a real concern. Having a dedicated set of well-trained analysts watching traffic to and from electric grids, water and sewer systems, and traffic control isn't a bad idea.

      I wonder how reporting and incident handling would work. Assuming a given company has limited security expertise in-house, or pays a contractor for perimeter monitoring, how quick or effective would the response be if NSA did find something? Would a company be required to investigate and remediate in a given amount of time? Would monitored companies get regular reports?

      What about on-going costs for operations and hardware? Costs for remediation? Training? Who pays for what?

    36. Re:Surveillance by ModernGeek · · Score: 1

      When I read the headline, I imagined the government being able to protect my business from DDoS attacks.

      --
      Sig: I stole this sig.
    37. Re:Surveillance by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure it's advocated as a panacea as much as the obvious first step. You see, it's belligerently obvious that when you don't want your internal network exposed to the risks of the internet, your first priority is to not put it on the internet and hide it behind a router and firewall. And when the concern is a foreign, criminal, or terrorist organization attacking something with Critical in the official title through the internet, well, we shouldn't have to draw a picture should we?

    38. Re:Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do we feel about NSA spyware in all of our infrastructure?"

      That's easy, mostly we're leftists here so it's just as you'd expect: Under a Republican administration we all bitched and moaned against it, and now under a Democrat one we're indicating with our posts and mod abuses that we don't really mind it much at all. Which means we didn't really mind it much at all in the first place, we just like to be in control.

      It's been 16 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment

      Well oh my fuck that's just awful! A tragedy of epic proportions. I, a cowboy, must indeed slow down.

    39. Re:Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is Comcast or Cox "critical infrastrastructure" Because I'm incoming on that. Are you?

    40. Re:Surveillance by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I think there is a point missing here. The programs and abilities you speak of is entirely true and happened or is still happening. Even the patriot act is still in full swing despite people winning elections by saying it would go away.

      Anyways, this is something that private organizations will have to willingly submit to. No law is needed as close federal, state, and local interaction, regulation, and requirements have been placed on the services considered to be critical. Most of this is specialty stuff like the electric grids, long range water supplies, damn gates and so on. Anyways, this stuff isn't random surveillance, it's more like specialized and targeted surveillance no different then background checks on people working for those companies which are required by law.

      In fact, it can be looked at in similar ways as the reporting requirements for hiring employees at these companies for people who will work on these so called critical things. They have to notify the government of the hire, after the back ground check, a government agent does another background check, when they transfer the people from one facility to another, they have to report it to the government, and when they fire someone, they report it too. So what they are basically doing is requiring the companies to put boxes or devices in place that monitor communications to the areas that are deemed critical or in communications with something deemed critical, then report it to the government when something odd happens.

      And this really isn't anything new, that's how the government knew it was a software bug at an Ohio based utility that caused the last blackout that took most the north east coast and parts of Canada out. The tracking system that pointed to the problem and the logging requirements that lead to the actual problem and fix was mandated by the government in much the same way as this is. The only difference is that we know about it before hand and some people's knees jerked so hard, it hit them in the head and made them senseless.

    41. Re:Surveillance by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Cops do IR camera fly-bys, looking for the heat generated by a grow op (falls, debatedly, under "in plain sight"). Or if they have reason to suspect, they subpoena the utility for the records.

      Has something changed since Kyllo vs. U.S?

      Last I head, it was a Fourth Amendment issue for them to do that. I know that Kyllo mentioned devices not in general use by the public, but the key to it was in the case wasn't the devices but the expectation of privacy. The device usage and availability simply noted that the expectation hadn't diminished. In fact, I would doubt that any device could diminish the expectation of privacy in the home as it's specifically mentioned in the constitution as a protected area.

    42. Re:Surveillance by Stupendoussteve · · Score: 1

      You don't understand do you. This is just the beginning. That kind of power is like a black hole. The closer you get the less control you have till you just can't break free. Who watches these people? Don't tell me Congress will watch them. They don't have a fucking clue. You'd better to be ready to fight for your civil liberties. /tinfoilhat

      Or ask for a job

    43. Re:Surveillance by Ltap · · Score: 1

      Nickel and dime. If the program is successful, they will expand it to other systems and areas, and expand its influence.

      --
      Yet Another Tech Blog
      (but so much more, including game and movie reviews)
      http://yanteb.peasantoid.org
    44. Re:Surveillance by spazdor · · Score: 1

      if malicious patterns were detected perhaps an auto-cutoff of the plant from the internet could be triggered.

      This seems, to me, like a dynamic that's exploitable in itself.

      Assuming that the plant is connected to the Internet in the first place for a real purpose, whatever that purpose is is suddenly vulnerable to a denial-of-service attack. All you gotta do is trip the IDS deliberately.

      --
      DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
    45. Re:Surveillance by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      There's a risk this will grow to where the government is so paranoid it does care how long the TV is on. Right now, there are estimated to be 8 million US citizens on the Main Core list (although this is just a Wikipedia entry, so of course it could be a gross exaggeration):

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Core

      How far is it from putting 8 million people on your critical threat list to making people document how much Wattage their TV draws so the government can tell if there's some other appliance running in tandem cycle and so determine if the citizen is watching wholesome major network programming or some subversive screed passed around on DVD? (Or worse, tivoing something illegally).

      (WARNING: What follows is not a Slashmene, even though it begins like one. No joke here, Mkay?)

            In Soviet Russia under Gorbachev, lots of non-party members had TVs and the KGB didn't care which channels they watched, but the government regulated many other items that could run with them much more strongly, such as PCs and Videotape machines. To do this, they had to indirectly deal with TVs - so much so, that this was a known procedure on raids: Units would take a portable color TV along. They would watch the glow of what might be a TV through apartment windows at the target address, and look to see if they could identify the channel a suspect was watching. If it's brightenings and dimmings didn't match any of the state channels, they would use this as grounds to enter on suspicion there was an unregistered computer or recording device in use.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    46. Re:Surveillance by lonecrow · · Score: 1

      Good point, so instead of an automatic cut-off it is a series of escalating alerts that humans can act upon with the appropriate response.

      Which still doesn't change the fact that you want to detect the attack in the first place which probably requires sensors and some form of monitoring. I don't think this automatically means that the program will or will have to violate civil liberties.

    47. Re:Surveillance by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 1

      So your main beef with the handling of the story, and your main reason for being suspicious of the government's motives, is because of the name they chose? Any other facts or citations beyond the feeling that the name sucks? (Which it does, by the way.)

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    48. Re:Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So far all intensive purposes, "Perfect Citizen" has worked... on you.

    49. Re:Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoops, just undoing moderation here. Disregard.

    50. Re:Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's critical infrastructures doing on the public net ?
      Havent they heard of Black/Red zones ? Critical equipment totally insulated
      from the publically accessible net ? If there's just one reactor / plant accessible
      via public net they are totally stupid and dangerous and their systems should be shut down
      till they fix their crap. No critical infrastructure should be on the net period.
      The NSA and it's equivalents elsewhere collect all data going on the net.
      Why do you think they have supercomputers ? To play solitaire ?No email is private
      No phone call is private. Here in Canada and the US and the UK do this since the cold war.

    51. Re:Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [...]

      A U.S. military official called the program long overdue and said any intrusion into privacy is no greater than what the public already endures from traffic cameras. It's a logical extension of the work federal agencies have done in the past to protect physical attacks on critical infrastructure that could sabotage the government or key parts of the country, the official said.

      They basically come out and directly say they are taking advantage of a slippery slope and happily sliding down it. So monitoring people driving is the same as watching what they are doing online.... yeh, thats not a slippery-slope argument at all </sarcasm> Next is, well, we already monitor the critical infrastructure, why not just all corporations, why not just all ISPs and all home users, then we could really catch all those sleepercell terrrrists at home!! yeh1!! its just like red-light cameras.

      Tm

      The state I live in has banned the use of red-light cameras state-wide, in the interests of personal privacy expectations, expectations of how intrusive government should be into its citizens' lives, and for reasons of individual liberty.

      And I agree with that law we passed. So with that in mind, I have to say I agree with this official, they are about the same.

    52. Re:Surveillance by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "But perhaps another approach to this would be to ask you how you would go about protecting these assets from cyber-attack without violating civil liberties? "

      I would propose that these PRIVATE companies, be mandated to put in their own traffic monitoring and other safety measures to protect their own infrastructure, and at best...have bi-annual inspections by govt. officials. I'd be ok with the govt. oversight of the companies doing their OWN safety measures, but am uncomfortable with the govt connecting in and doing it directly.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    53. Re:Surveillance by riondluz · · Score: 1

      Don't forget "InfraGard", our corporate 'perfect citizens'

      --
      resist propaganda
    54. Re:Surveillance by mhajicek · · Score: 1

      Fiber splices can be detected with the proper technology.

    55. Re:Surveillance by slick7 · · Score: 1

      Which works great until $serious_spy_agency splices the fiber somewhere and takes over everything.

      Air-gap security is all fine and good against casual hackers, but still leaves you with an awfully gooey center. I don't know why Slashdotters keep advocating it as such a panacea.

      Dedicated fiber-optic systems can be setup to detect extended losses of light communication (ie. splicing into a main cable), at which time all communications ceases until integrity is assured. The threshold can be significantly shorter than the time to complete the splice. The splice could take a few minutes to make, compared to the number of operational cycles occurring during that same period (numbering into the millions), threshold parameters set significantly lower should be sufficient as a first line defense.

      --
      The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
  2. Think? by 0racle · · Score: 1

    You're not cleared for that citizen.

    --
    "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    1. Re:Think? by easterberry · · Score: 1

      I knew I should've worn my violent shirt today... but the infrared but just so stylish!

    2. Re:Think? by easterberry · · Score: 1

      s/violent/violet

    3. Re:Think? by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      Now pick up that can!

    4. Re:Think? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That explains the first typo... Care to take a shot at the second one?

    5. Re:Think? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      s/violent/violet

      Had it right the first time.

    6. Re:Think? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now put it in the trash can.

    7. Re:Think? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, put that trash can in that trash can. There. I said it.

    8. Re:Think? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Infradead

  3. Perfect Citizen. Imperfect Government. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I suspect this will turn a tower of babel of insecurity into a monoculture of insecurity.

    And future exploits will involve DOS by getting the NSA sensors to trip. Which I assume might just shut down such networks which will cause plenty of problems.

    1. Re:Perfect Citizen. Imperfect Government. by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>monoculture of insecurity.

      "Monopoly" is the word you're looking for, and an Uncle Sam monopoly is no better than a Comcast monopoly. On the contrary: It's worse.
      .

      >>>future exploits will involve DOS by getting the NSA sensors to trip

      And of course the failure of the government to secure the net will be used as proof that we need more, not less government.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:Perfect Citizen. Imperfect Government. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A Comcast monopoly is a government granted monopoly. In fact, the only real monopolies are ones granted by some level of government.

  4. but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if the network does come under attack, and gets so badly flooded out that their 'spyware' is unable to phone home to say "something fishy here.."

      What then?

    1. Re:but.. by Vectormatic · · Score: 1

      heartbeat signals?

      "hmm, node 1642 hasnt reported in over 30 seconds, better kill off that subnet"

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
  5. Asinine by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

    A U.S. military official called the program long overdue and said any intrusion into privacy is no greater than what the public already endures from traffic cameras.

    ::facepalm::
    My internet traffic is not on a public roadway.

    It's just rediculous that they're trying to make such an argument
    while trying to plug these boxes into private networks.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:Asinine by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Maybe Alex Jones is smarter than he acts. He's been talking for months about Boxes being placed in homes (or at the curb) to monitor internet lines to ensure security. I thought he was nuts but now here it comes.

      "Any who would give-up essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin, Pennsylvanian

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:Asinine by jeffmeden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The first thing I thought of when I read the flame-inducing "How do we feel about NSA spyware in all of our infrastructure?" was "oh well, at least there will be good-guy spyware in there with the bad-guy spyware..."

      Do you really think that these private firms are honky dory with their current systems? As discussed to death at Black Hat 20[insert any year here], most private firms are years behind the DOD when it comes to info security, some of them ignoring it outright (the new power grid technology comes to mind).

      If these companies aren't going to take security seriously, is it really wrong to offer a program that lets the NSA help them out? Or worse, would you rather the NSA simply hold out for a secret executive order to place surveillance equipment without the need to tell anyone? I think that this step, at least, is in the right direction. It could still go horribly wrong, but why kill it before it has the chance to do some good?

    3. Re:Asinine by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>My internet traffic is not on a public roadway.

      Maybe it's time we nerds setup our own private network. Something like Usenet or Fidnonet but much faster (the old 56k or 112k connections are not enough). On second thought, with advancing codecs maybe it would work. I just watched Doctor Who at dialup speeds (48k) and it was no more horrible than watching a VHS tape.

      And to add to Franklin's quote:

      - I would rather take the risk that there's a 1 in 300 million risk that a terrorist will kill me, than the 1-to-1 risk that a politician is watching me. Liberty to not be spied on is essential. And the enhanced Security is only temporary (until the next tyrant arises and decides to imprison german-Americans again). It is a lousy bargain to trade the former for the latter.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    4. Re:Asinine by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      It's just rediculous

      It's so diculous, it's ridiculous twice! It's re-diculous. Not to ridicule, of course.

      As for connecting things to private networks: read. This is done in cooperation with private network owners that agree it's a good idea, considering what they're operating/protecting. You're not being forced, on your own network, to have anything to do with it.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    5. Re:Asinine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The DoD's cyber security is a joke (and comparing it to someone worse doesnt change that fact). Worse when it comes right down to it their concept of security is bullshit like FIPS and Common Criteria, which dont do anything but introduce bureaucratic overhead into the process, slowing down any chance in hell that they could compete with China et al.

      I'd also point out that there is nothing about this thats optional, if you think that is the case or the objective your a damned fool.

  6. Guess by mackil · · Score: 1

    How do we feel about NSA spyware in all of our infrastructure?

    ummm.... NOT GOOD

    1. Re:Guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Doubleplusungood, in fact.

  7. Spyware? Really? by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 3, Informative

    When zealots can't distinguish between legitimate security and illegitimate spying, it hurts the credibility of civil liberties, not the NSA.

    1. Re:Spyware? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      ("Ahhh I see citizen 12 is using grow lamps - send the DEA to investigate"), then liberty will die for all of us.

      If you are running grow lamps, maybe talking about them in every single post you make to slashdot isn't the way to keep them a secret? Just a thought.

    2. Re:Spyware? Really? by commodore64_love · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Anonymous Coward wrote:
      >If you are running grow lamps, maybe talking about them in every single post you make to slashdot isn't the way to keep them a secret? Just a thought.

      Yeah like I care. (1) I don't have any. (2) In the extremely unlikely event the DEA did show up, I'd just videotape the illegal police breakin, and then get my 15 minutes of fame on Glenn Beck, Rachel Maddown, and Youtube. It's an overall positive. - And thanks for the -1 mod.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    3. Re:Spyware? Really? by qbast · · Score: 1

      Or you will lose your camera along with several teeth. Then get charged with assaulting police officer and resisting arrest. I agree, overall positive.

    4. Re:Spyware? Really? by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      or they might shoot at your grandma but miss and kill your daughter, hilarity ensuing, like in Detroit a few weeks back.

    5. Re:Spyware? Really? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      When zealots can't distinguish between legitimate security and illegitimate spying, it hurts the credibility of civil liberties, not the NSA.

      But giving the a program one of the the most Orwellian names ever - "Perfect Citizen" - sure doesn't help the NSA's credibility either.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    6. Re:Spyware? Really? by zix619 · · Score: 1

      I believe that it's necessary even the duty of the government to protect sensitive infrastructure. Though, as this is the case with many other governmental institutions, there is need for close monitoring and supervision of these organizations by external committees/organization controlled by legislative or at least an elected parliament! The lack of this can end up to what was revealed to the public couple of years ago: NSA monitoring millions of US citizens without any warrant or justifications! See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_call_database "The existence of this database and the NSA program that compiled it was unknown to the general public until USA Today broke the story on May 10, 2006.[1] It is estimated that the database contains over 1.9 trillion call-detail records.[2] According to Bloomberg News, the effort began approximately seven months before the September 11, 2001 attacks.[3]"

    7. Re:Spyware? Really? by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>When zealots can't distinguish between legitimate security and illegitimate spying

      When liberty-lovers can not see that security and spying are the same thing, then liberty will die for all of us.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  8. All cyber-assaults will be detected! by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

    ... detect cyber assaults on private companies

    You know, like downloading the latest Lady Gaga CD.

    --
    That is all.
  9. Pick up that can! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I SAID... PICK UP THAT CAN!!

  10. And the Maginot Line will protect France by Palestrina · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's the problem with big expensive publicly-announced efforts to protect against known attacks. The bad guys tend to not be idiots, and don't do what you expect. Come on, we can't even protect ourselves from our own stupidity, like when a trader accidentally enters an order for a billion rather than a million. If our systems are so fragile, then it doesn't take much. Oh, and what makes anyone thing that we don't have insiders willing to initiate cyber attacks? A big fire wall on the ourside doesn't help much there.

  11. Citizens? by drumcat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The fact that any government agency thinks its "corporate citizens" are perfect-able makes me ill. Yes, it's just a name, but it's time that human beings finally have more rights that incorporated entities. It's not to even be joked about by the government.

  12. Concerns that don't involve tinfoil hats. by stagg · · Score: 1

    I'm more concerned about how this could limit the flexibility of these industries. Needing to run substantial IT changes through a federal agency could theoretically stifle innovation. You're adding another restrictive layer of bureaucracy. And then there's the age old... "they put something called linux on it, and it looked like something a hacker might use" problem. Let's hope the people monitoring this are IT people and not middle management people?

    1. Re:Concerns that don't involve tinfoil hats. by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Informative

      >>>there's the age old... "they put something called linux on it, and it looked like something a hacker might use" problem

      Like that poor kid who was given detention. His crime? Demonstrating Linux on his personal laptop during study hall, and handing out free CDs of it to friends. The teacher assumed the kid was a pirate and punished him. She even went so far as to contact the guy who created the original CD, and scold him too! "I don't know why you are handing-out these CDs but I play to consult with lawyers and if necessary prosecute. We cannot allow you to corrupt our children." (Quoted from memory)

      Fortunately a teacher has no real power, but imagine this story is the "teacher" was replaced with "NSA enforcement officer" knocking at your door and arresting you for illegal acts, such as handing out free copies of Ubuntu Linux OS. (And yes cops really are that fucking stupid. Go watch some vids on youtube.)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  13. What could possibly go wrong? by IMightB · · Score: 1

    It's not like the gov would ever use any info it gathers against you.

  14. They couldn't have chosen a better name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Perfect Citizen".

  15. Ahhh... by Securityemo · · Score: 3, Informative

    From the article text, it sounds like this means deploying "normal" IDS systems on a per-network basis. "Not persistently monitor the whole system" probably serves to clarify that it won't log, capture or analyze all data; an IDS triggers when it detects something that it's rules/signatures match, much like an antivirus sans emulation/sandboxing unpacking and behaviour monitoring . "The overall purpose of the [program] is our Government...feel[s] that they need to insure the Public Sector is doing all they can to secure Infrastructure critical to our National Security" sounds like they're forcing them to comply to inspection or testing.
    Also, they might have wanted to pick a less dr-strangeglove-sounding name. But maybe the NSA geeks have a sense of humour too?

    --
    Emotions! In your brain!
  16. Slashdot by warGod3 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I wonder if the "Slashdot Effect" would be considered a "cyber assault"?

    --
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General James Mattis
  17. Wow... by Tmack · · Score: 2, Insightful
    What they just described sounds like this device I heard of called a "fire wall". It can be set to alert you when bad people try to "hack" into your internets or do cyber war and will block the hackors from infecting you with computer viruses.

    .. seriously, are we that far behind in our critical infrastructure that its still just plopped down on the internet without a firewall, filtering, port blocking, like some infected win95 machine from the 90s? Stuff like that should not be on the internet directly, ever. Private networks only, connected only to systems that need to monitor/control. Sure its faster/cheaper to plop a dsl line to that remote site, but its far less expensive to just get a direct private line to it than it would be to implement any of this other security theater the govment likes to use. Imagine your corporate firewall being run by the NSA....Hah

    Tm

    --
    Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
    1. Re:Wow... by Securityemo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      An encrypted VPN secured with a key, that key itself only existing on the physically secure terminals used to access the systems and the internet-facing routers should be virtually as secure as an encrypted dedicated line. As long as the VPN software isn't faulty in some way, but it'd probably be secure enough. It might even be more secure, because if you've got a dedicated line and a stolen key you just need to tap into a point somewhere along the wire - unlike a VPN, where inbound and outbound traffic might follow different routes (a network engineer/architecht could perhaps kindly fill me in on the probability and topology of this). Or are you suggesting quantum-encrypted single-photon lines to every power plant in the US?

      --
      Emotions! In your brain!
  18. Keeping up with the Lees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do we feel about NSA spyware in all of our infrastructure?

    It's about time we caught back up with china.

  19. Kiss Open Systems Goodbye by hackus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There it goes out the window with all of the Bills currently in Congress to chase the internet "boogie man" as they hire "governmental approved companies" to produce boxes to install on your internet line.

    Proprietary and very secret boxes.

    They will track how long you play WoW, what you buy and put you in prison for that Virus that downloads pr0n.

    SO much easier to get rid of people they don't like especially if the black box has the ability to infect and download the pr0n for them onto your home PC using "government approved software".

    This is getting way out of control very fast.

    One thing for sure though, you won't run LINUX, you won't run anything except what that black box says you can run.

    Ironically there is a very real chance that only the collusion of fascism can take down Open Source because companies can't compete against it and governments absolutely hate systems built in the open because they can't lie about what they are doing to the masses.

    The "Perfect Citizen" in this definition is one who doesn't question, only uses what the government tells them to and more importantly believes that the internet is better off with it.

    -Hack

    --
    Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
    1. Re:Kiss Open Systems Goodbye by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>One thing for sure though, you won't run LINUX, you won't run anything except what that black box says you can run.

      Vice-versa: Some of us might start using Lubuntu Linux or Amiga OS specifically because we are told we can't. Some of us enjoy challenging tyrants in order to fight for freedom.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:Kiss Open Systems Goodbye by chill · · Score: 3, Informative

      You do know they're talking about doing this to water, electric, utilities, gas and railroad infrastructure, right? "Critical infrastructure", such as traffic control centers, the power grids, gas grid and the like. You aren't critical infrastructure. WoW certainly as hell shouldn't be running on critical infrastructure. Traffic in those network SHOULD be watched and coordinated. The companies can either let the NSA do it or purchase the equipment and do it themselves.

      Last I knew, those "proprietary systems" (example here) were Linux-based using libpcap but on screaming fast hardware. Proprietary analysis software is used to baseline traffic patterns and look for anomalies.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    3. Re:Kiss Open Systems Goodbye by tibman · · Score: 1

      I don't want to step on your rant, but most US Gov websites i've seen.. are on linux. I would guess much of the infrastructure is the same. End-user computers are mostly windows boxes though. With those come exchange and sharepoint and blah blah. But the critical stuff appears to be linux/bsd. You can check here: http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=whitehouse.gov

      Also, the last time i saw a Certificate of Networthiness list.. there was plenty of OSS approved: apache, php, python, putty, RHEL, firefox blah blah.

      As far as the rest of your post is concerned.. i have no facts one way or the other.

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    4. Re:Kiss Open Systems Goodbye by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      What happens when the NSA tells you that you have to run Linux? Will you be happy then?

      Of course not. They would be taking away your essential liberty to infest yourself and everyone around you with all manner of digital pests so you would be (appropriately) upset.

      My point is that they're much likely to require something like SE Linux that forbid it.

      You may return to being a good citizen by recycling your hat now.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:Kiss Open Systems Goodbye by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      More likely they'll make you run Windows or Mac OS, and nothing else.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  20. thats right citizens! by nimbius · · Score: 1

    its another cyberwar/cyberattack/cybersecurity article! your friends at Raytheon, a wholesome defense contractor, got the contract this time for a surveillance project to fight the upcoming cyber[war/attack]. they of course being shy about the whole thing declined to comment about it.

    Perfect Citizen will look at large, typically older computer control systems that were often designed without Internet connectivity or security in mind.
    the bigger issue is why are private corporations allowed to operate things like nuclear reactors in such a manner that apparently poses imminent threat to national security and public safety, then turn around and ask the government to secure their systems for them?

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  21. Definition of "Slippery Slope" by Tmack · · Score: 1

    A U.S. military official called the program long overdue and said any intrusion into privacy is no greater than what the public already endures from traffic cameras. It's a logical extension of the work federal agencies have done in the past to protect physical attacks on critical infrastructure that could sabotage the government or key parts of the country, the official said.

    "You already gave up privacy for traffic cameras, so we can watch you drive, now we want to see what kinds of pr0n you like, cause thats no different and no big deal and its to stop the terrrrrists from doing another 9-11." This is exactly why privacy advocates are so rabid about what seems to be little things. They add up quick, and eventually get used as a "well we already do X, so this should be fine".

    Tm

    --
    Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
  22. "Perfect Citizen" by L3370 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is it just me, or does "Perfect Citizen" sound like the most completely sinister project name you could give?
    Seriously, shouldn't they try harder to disguise the intentions with a name like "Save the children security project" or "Patriotic Minutemen project"????

    1. Re:"Perfect Citizen" by dorkinson · · Score: 1

      As the camera zooms out, our protagonist sees the manilla folder actually reads "To Perfect Citizen Enslavement"

    2. Re:"Perfect Citizen" by straponego · · Score: 1

      For some reason I read "Perfect Citizen" in the voice of the Combine soldiers in Half Life 2. It makes me picture cowering... Probably just coincidence.

  23. Here's another idea... by d474 · · Score: 1

    How about just disconnecting critical infrastructure from the internet all together? Which desk do I send my invoice to inside the NSA?

    --
    Authority questions you. Return the favor.
  24. Wouldn't a secure OS be a better option? by ka9dgx · · Score: 1

    Cabsec - Capability Based Security has been around for a long time, it was part of Multics... the idea of having real security built into the OS, available as a tool for the USER to decide what resources to make available to an application, is a very powerful one.

    Unfortunately, its a boil the ocean solution.... you have to build a new OS which supports it, and then port your apps.

    1. Re:Wouldn't a secure OS be a better option? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trusted operating systems exist. They're prohibitively expensive for most organizations.

    2. Re:Wouldn't a secure OS be a better option? by ka9dgx · · Score: 1

      With the proven L4 kernel, the device driver code from Linux, and the GPL... it should be feasible to build a trusted system for the rest of us.

      The key is to allow the user to assign privileges to a program at run time, and have the operating system constrain the program to those resources. It's not really hard to do, compared to the approach we have now, it's conceptually easier.

  25. Perfect Citizen by iateyourcookies · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Perfect Citizen": Because the phrase "Big Brother" wasn't quite creepy enough.

  26. Bias? by andy1307 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How do we feel about NSA spyware in all of our infrastructure?

    Better than Chinese spyware in all of our infrastructure.

  27. If they did it correctly, it would help. by khasim · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Start with the basics. Map the traffic patterns and usage patterns.

    Now, roll that data up from a hundred different companies.

    You'll see the patterns.

    Share that information (anonymized) with the companies so that they can hunt down any "weird" traffic on their networks.

    1. Re:If they did it correctly, it would help. by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 1

      uh, dshield.org much?

      --

      help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

    2. Re:If they did it correctly, it would help. by GrEp · · Score: 1

      You can't anonymize it. Any information given with enough detail to be useful is many times more than enough to reconstruct the relation of "anonymized" data points.

      --

      bash-2.04$
      bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
  28. This comes as a surprise? by BKDotCom · · Score: 1

    After reading "The Shadow Factory" ( http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Factory-NSA-Eavesdropping-America/dp/0307279391/ ), I assumed the NSA already had spyware in all of our infrastructure.

  29. I feel hopeful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Also, changed.

  30. False positives and masked attacks by karl.auerbach · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The net has huge tides - but unpredictable ones such as the traffic burst that happened when Michael Jackson died.

    Those traffic shifts, along with the introduction of new technologies (such as IPv6, cloud computing, and smaller things like the next twitter) will create false positives.

    And an attacker, knowing that there are these bursts fairly frequently and that during them there will be false triggers, will time the launch his attack so that it occurs during or shortly after one of those events.

    Personally I don't think NSA has the chops to do this monitoring job. Why? Because to do a good job a lot of data needs to be correlated and NSA, if anything, is very unwilling to share its data with others who may also be watching - like ISPs and power companies or just those of us chatting on mailing lists and noticing that weird things are happening.

    1. Re:False positives and masked attacks by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Those traffic shifts, along with the introduction of new technologies (such as IPv6, cloud computing, and smaller things like the next twitter) will create false positives. And an attacker, knowing that there are these bursts fairly frequently and that during them there will be false triggers, will time the launch his attack so that it occurs during or shortly after one of those events.

      This is pretty much a solved problem. You're picturing a system that monitors traffic level, then automatically shuts off the traffic in an emergency. That's not the state of the art and hasn't been for a long time. Rather, you deploy IDS systems that build a relational database of "normal" traffic on a network over time. Administrators look at the traffic ad mark some of it as "critically important" like the connection between the control system update board and the deployed sensors, and the connection between the payroll server and the payroll administrator's office. The rest of the traffic is stuff you don't care about that much, like the public facing Web server or the FTP server used by developers on site, or the desktop computers ability to access random ports to run P2P or play Quake after hours.

      So what happens when Michael Jackson dies and all the desktops start going to a few Web sites and at the same time a hacker compromises a desktop and starts spreading a worm in the LAN? The IDS system freezes traffic levels and automatically prevents the desktops from talking on any non-critical ports while at the same time throttling Web traffic to sites about Michael Jackson. At the some time it contacts the security admin, shows them the traffic, attempts to identify some of it as a propagating worm, and lets the administrator decide what to do about it... all the while all the critical business is still getting done.

      Personally I don't think NSA has the chops to do this monitoring job. Why? Because to do a good job a lot of data needs to be correlated and NSA, if anything, is very unwilling to share its data with others who may also be watching - like ISPs

      There are already programs among ISPs and large network operators that do share just this kind of attack data (anonymized) to better coordinate security. I was involved in the creation of one of them. The DoD and NSA do participate.

  31. Cyber???? by __aavqan3009 · · Score: 1

    Are you really in-the-know if you use the term "cyber"?

    1. Re:Cyber???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think that word means what they think it means.

  32. has this been asked yet? by electron+sponge · · Score: 0

    Why is critical infrastructure attached to a public network in the first place?

  33. The universal OFF switch by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How about just... not connecting EVERYTHING to the net? The best way to prevent an unauthorized user access to the main control switches of a power plant is to simply have those commands input manually by someone you reach directly by phone. You won't be able to hack those employees directly until those nifty GITS full body replacements roll in (ETA Q4 2013)

    1. Re:The universal OFF switch by natoochtoniket · · Score: 1

      have those commands input manually by someone you reach directly by phone.

      A little social engineering, maybe:

      "Hi Ben, This is Frank over at the . We have a little problem here. Actually, it's a big problem. We got a fire. Four buildings, so far. We can't put it out because the connection with is live. We need you to pull so we can get close enough to put out the fire."

      I never got a root password by hacking. Every one I ever got was by asking nicely.

    2. Re:The universal OFF switch by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 1

      "Yeah Frank, my controls here don't show any fires, what's your authorization override code?"

  34. Sensors by Thelasko · · Score: 3, Insightful

    would rely on a set of sensors deployed in computer networks for critical infrastructure that would be triggered by unusual activity suggesting an impending cyber attack

    How will the "sensors" communicate with the NSA while being attacked? The internet?

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    1. Re:Sensors by Securityemo · · Score: 1

      If a sensor goes offline, it'd ovbiously be treated as an attack, depending on if it looks like an outage further away from the network edge.

      --
      Emotions! In your brain!
  35. That Name! by eheldreth · · Score: 2, Funny

    Am I the only one that read the name of this project and gave serious consideration to buying a shiny new bunker in Montana.

    --
    The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum. - O'Toole's Corollary
  36. why is the grid and nuclear plants on the Net anyw by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    why is the grid and nuclear plants on the Net anyways?

  37. Re:but.. Citizen by StillNeedMoreCoffee · · Score: 1

    What if a person goes on a rampage in a school and shoots up people. Well we investigate, charge, and try and hopefully convict. The presumption of innocence prevents pre-emptive actions. We seem more and more to cater to Chaneyesque fears (where If I remember right he said if there is as little as 2% chance something bad is going to happen, we take pre-emptive steps or something like that, and we invade a country with our citizens loosing their lives and thousands suffering.. good work Dick). This getting into the middle of essentially all communications is very Orwellian and scary. I am reminded of the steps that Singapore takes to control their citizens. I understand they have urine detectors in elevators, just in case someone takes a leak when riding between floors.

    If you are in the network monitoring traffic, you are monitoring All traffic, and it is only your filtering and selection programs that might capture or alert you to specific types of transmissions or to or from individuals or addresses. But you start with monitoring All traffic. So to say, they (actually we, if you think that the government is by the people and for the people) are not looking at private citizens, well of course they are, I'm sure the targets are all private citizens and the senders are either private citizens or programs written by private citizens, Aren't we all private citizens, what other kind of citizen is there, unless you mean Public citizens maybe or private non-US citizens. But we are all private citizens of some country. Are non-US citizens less worthy of protection or privacy? are they a second class of citizen? I think the issues of us vs. them can be framed in a number of ways. With this article the them may be those in the government that want to protect us from ourselves. Not their job.

  38. boondoggle by Jodka · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A single flaw in a common security architecture is a pervasive vulnerability whereas a heterogenous system is robust to targeted attacks.

    They would do better to solicit bids for multiple systems from private contractors and place the NSA as well as the public security community in the roles of auditors. That would also allay concerns about covert monitoring by the NSA.

    Open-sourceing the product and allowing public audits is advantageous because what is sometimes obscured by "Security through obscurity" is that foreign operatives have covertly horked your source code and analyzed if for vulnerabilities.

    What FEMA did for Katrina and the EPA did for the golf oil spill this program will do for online security: create an ineffective program which creates a false sense of protection, displacing genuinely effective protective measures. I am not saying that there is no roll for government here, but rather than the rolls played by government are typically either useless or harmful and it would be nice if it took a different approach; Give the Harvard MBAs and MIT and Caltech Ph.D engineeers working at Cisco and IBM opportunities to innovate and place the government and public in the role of customers holding contractors accountable for supplying quality products.

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature.
    1. Re:boondoggle by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      A single flaw in a common security architecture is a pervasive vulnerability whereas a heterogenous system is robust to targeted attacks.

      Agreed, however, given the way software is procured and "certified" for security by the government, that is the least of the problem. Secure software in the government requires motivated players who will work around the security regulations in order to get secure software, and the NSA is one of the few branches of government that seems motivated.

      They would do better to solicit bids for multiple systems from private contractors and place the NSA as well as the public security community in the roles of auditors.

      In theory that sounds great, but in practice do you have any idea hope nighmarish that would be for people who are actually try to create a secure system?

      I am not saying that there is no roll[sic] for government here, but rather than the rolls[sic] played by government are typically either useless or harmful and it would be nice if it took a different approach; Give the Harvard MBAs and MIT and Caltech Ph.D engineeers working at Cisco and IBM opportunities to innovate and place the government and public in the role of customers holding contractors accountable for supplying quality products.

      Have you dealt with the combination of giant private firms and obtuse and impossible government appropriations? I've worked in the security field and let me tell you, Cisco bought three of our failed competitors and sold the fairly useless software to the government while using the product we made internally for their own security. They were our biggest competitor and a large customer. Do you know what the PhD's at Cisco can do for us? They can lobby to have several third party firms "certify" software in entirely useless ways that take huge amounts of time and money, effectively driving all but a handful of players out of the bidding. Often none of those remaining have the expertise of product to do a decent job, but that doesn't matter because they're "certified" to be secure, in that third parties have signed off on the fact that their product does not promise to be useful for any given task.

      If you've ever wondered why the NSA makes software in house, here's a clue, it's pretty much the only way to work around the nonsense and get a decent product, and the NSA does open source some of that software, BTW. And no, this isn't about sour grapes. Some of the software I worked on is being used by big government agencies to secure their infrastructure, but the ability to get that to happen was so awful that I cringe when I hear your proposal. Cisco is a great company for buying up other companies and marketing the hell out of their products using all their contacts and partnerships. They're terrible at acquiring or creating actually good, let alone the best products and getting them to the people that need them. My take is, if it's between letting the NSA "do something" and having any government agency audit and certify things, only the former has any chance in hell of doing anything useful.

    2. Re:boondoggle by CaptainChuck · · Score: 0

      Perhaps the Government could start by eliminating SPAM. Success (or the lack of it) will be easy to see.

    3. Re:boondoggle by Graham+J+-+XVI · · Score: 1

      That's far too logical to ever be implemented.

    4. Re:boondoggle by metrometro · · Score: 1

      it would be nice if it took a different approach; Give the Harvard MBAs and MIT and Caltech Ph.D engineeers working at Cisco and IBM opportunities to innovate

      Dude, where's the money in that? Raytheon for the win.

    5. Re:boondoggle by Ocyris · · Score: 1

      Do keep in mind that the NSA is one of the largest employers of Ph.D. Mathematicians in the US. They wrote the book on SELinux and are generally considered to be 5 years ahead of the next leader in the private sector.

      Who ever put the NSA together did a good job, at least in the sense of it accomplishing its mission.

    6. Re:boondoggle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typically government's role in matters such as this is to pass a law mandating some form of compliance. Critical infrastructure must have properly configured blankity blankity blankity and blank. Failure to comply will result in increased taxes/fines/liability/etc.

  39. I guess by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    'Law-Abiding Citizen' was too tied up in the movie rights. I wonder if the project to select a name for this program was titled: Operation Hamfist.

  40. Like as in also by AnAdventurer · · Score: 1

    Will this be like my bank blocking my debit card "for unusually activity"? Because that has never worked. The government's most secret known agency putting sensors with the ability to shut down a network, what could possibly go wrong?

    --
    6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
  41. Uhm... no... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I strongly disagree..

    They will track how long you play WoW, what you buy and put you in prison for that Virus that downloads pr0n.

    Do you really think the gov't cares how long you play WoW, what you buy or how much you like to jerk off? They don't. And, if their "little black boxes" are monitoring your traffic, they should be able to tell the difference between a pent-up user and a malicious downloader, by the type and amount of traffic. They do even take legal action unless it is illegal content that you are surfing.

    This is getting way out of control very fast.

    How do you figure?

    One thing for sure though, you won't run LINUX, you won't run anything except what that black box says you can run.

    First off, no body is going to tell me what I can and can't run on my network (which happens to be 98% Linux). This wicked evil government has put laws in place to prevent monopolies, which is exactly what you are saying would happen.

    Ironically there is a very real chance that only the collusion of fascism can take down Open Source because companies can't compete against it and governments absolutely hate systems built in the open because they can't lie about what they are doing to the masses.

    The US government USES F/OSS systems in their own infrastructure and even publish whitepapers on hardening said systems to comply with DoD standards. For you to state that they hate open systems is to point out the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about, in that regard. Personally, I find the NSA/DOD whitepapers on open-source sercurity to be some of the best.

    Seriously, people. Do some research into matters and gain a better understanding of the way things currently are before spouting that the government is bringing about a dystopian future by wanting to monitor and secure critical national infrastructures and the infrastructures of those third-parties that are put in charge of them. IMO, I think the government SHOULD step up security on the cyber front. God knows they have been pretty lacking

  42. I suggest that it be renamed by zmod3m · · Score: 0

    to Net Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_Net_Force)

  43. Willing to bet by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    if the sensors mentioned are indeed hardware, they will purchased from a Defense contractor via a lucrative cost-plus agreement. Said contractor will then sub-sub-subcontract the hardware. From a Chinese quasi-military-owned manufacturer. Tah-Dah!

  44. Unutterably stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Control systems for critical national infrastructure are not connected to external networks. If the NSA or any other three letter agency wants to connect gear and networks to them then they build an attack pathway that would not otherwise exist. Self-fulfilling idiocy, this.

  45. Perfect Citizen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not Orwellian so much, but Chinese, Perfect Citizen sounds much like Harmonious discourse to me.

    Regardless, I nearly choked on my coffee.

    Oh god, captcha: smiles

  46. Let's make a deal by wsanders · · Score: 1

    I'll let the NSA put spyware on some of my computers, *if* they let me target a Tomahawk missile at my least-favorite spammer once or twice a year.

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
  47. Perfect Citizen by Dan541 · · Score: 1

    I swear the people who name such programs must be deliberately trying to bait conspiracy kooks.

    --
    An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  48. It is time to start a new country... by tekrat · · Score: 1

    That actually has freedoms.

    Sooner or later, every entrenched government becomes corrupt. As was seen back in the days when you couldn't fight the corrupt system, you left, formed a new country and then grew into a power that eventually becomes corrupt and then a section of your people leave and the process starts anew.

    The United States has reached the stage that a segment of the population needs to leave and form a new country. Unfortunately, I believe we've run out of land. Used to be you could expand into "new world" or just form a country out in some desert where no one else lived. Not so easy anymore now that all lands are claimed and/or spied upon by Google Earth.

    Nevertheless, it's time to form an independent country. Move out to international waters, and create a floating continent perhaps similar to "Snow Crash". Or everyone bring a rock, like in that beer commercial.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:It is time to start a new country... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe if we all started actually paying attention to who we are voting for, and what they actually stand for, instead of whatever bizarro-world criteria are presently in use.

      naaahh, I know, never happen.

      everybody bring a rock.

    2. Re:It is time to start a new country... by zero0ne · · Score: 1

      Space my friend... give it time.

      Will end up like Gundam Wing though

  49. And now for the Tinfoil stuff by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What if there are no "massive cyber-attacks" by "Chinese hackers"?

    Who'd know? The key part of almost every successful TCP/IP network attack or compromise is the ability to manipulate intermediate hosts, etc. to obfuscate and mislead as to the actual "real location" of the attacker or malicious agent. When I was so preoccupied, in the mid/late-nineties, it was common practice to use Chinese IP space as "base-camp" for our explorations. I remember, in particular, an entire University lab of several dozen Sparc5 clones, directly connected to the Internet. Getting shell on these was a trivial exercise. The poor quality of the systems administration on these hosts was also an excellent indication that any forensics effort would be pretty hopeless, with the simple deletion of local logfiles.

    Given the resources of a US or Israeli intelligence agency, it is completely likely that attacks could appear to be "Chinese" - without ever having a ZH presence. Manipulation of BGP, etc. could produce the required 'evidence'.

    Which also begs the question: why would "Chinese" or "North Korean" state-sponsored "hacker gangs" be able to launch attacks with sophistication enough to be considered a threat to national infrastructure, yet simultaneously naive enough to be triangulated back to their supposedly surreptitious origin?

    As they say, "Pull the other one, it has bells on it."

    The only serious outcome of any mass-scale foreign cyber-attack has been to create a climate for the acceptance of increased surveillance, demolition of limits for Federal agencies and the Military in regards to the law-abiding civilian US population, and the complete obliteration of 4th and 1st Amendment protections afforded by the U.S. Constitution. What if that is not the "unintended consequence"?

    --
    "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
    1. Re:And now for the Tinfoil stuff by MrPhilby · · Score: 0

      Fear, it's all about creating fear, so people become like putty.

    2. Re:And now for the Tinfoil stuff by PapayaSF · · Score: 1

      Which also begs the question: why would "Chinese" or "North Korean" state-sponsored "hacker gangs" be able to launch attacks with sophistication enough to be considered a threat to national infrastructure, yet simultaneously naive enough to be triangulated back to their supposedly surreptitious origin? As they say, "Pull the other one, it has bells on it."

      Ha ha, but do you think hackers in China or North Korea always get to do what they want? Do you think one-party dictatorships are better at listening to advice from geeks than, say, the average American CEO or politician? You really can't imagine some Asian version of the pointy-haired boss saying: "No, do it with our servers. We need to test them"? If you think the hacker is smart, wouldn't he be smart enough to not argue with the Chinese or North Korean officer who's giving him the order?

      History is filled with errors of that sort. The last big German offensive on the Western front in World War I failed in part because it had no real strategic objective. Any green lieutenant could tell you that's a stupid idea, but the boss was the boss. During the Battle of Britain, did the Luftwaffe want to stop attacking the nearly-destroyed RAF and bomb London instead, just because the RAF had raided Berlin? Of course not, but orders are orders, so the RAF had time to recover and ultimately win.

      You are also forgetting the possibility that the attacks were intentionally not entirely disguised because they were intended to send a message, the way countries use military exercises to impress opponents, or intentional violations of airspace to test responses.

      --
      Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
  50. Ve need morrre orrrderrr. by swschrad · · Score: 1

    the CORRECT solution is to never have critical infrastructure exposed to the Wacky Wacky Webbiepoo.

    the old saw is still correct... the only secure computer is deep underground in a vault. no power. no wires. encased in concrete. access to the borehole up top guarded by crew-served weapons.

    it is an INCORRECT solution to put critical infrastructure on the Wacky, with spies and lies draped all around it.

    this means your "smart grid," folks, is megatard.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:Ve need morrre orrrderrr. by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Your fly is open.

      You're welcome.

    2. Re:Ve need morrre orrrderrr. by DrCForbin · · Score: 1

      You are totally correct. One of the fights I had early in my IS career was with a county accounting department that wanted to have the accounting of the local law enforcement agency placed under their control. The law enforcement accounts contained information (allocation for sting operations, reciepts for witness protection program expenses, etc) that if placed in an insecure environment (like the same computer system EVERY OTHER COUNTY DEPARTMENT COULD ACCESS WITHOUT RESTRICTION) could result in the loss of lives of officers and witnesses. We maintained security by having a physically seperate system that ran on customized software on a technically obsolete piece of hardware in an area with restricted access. Just ONCE somebody cut a corner and tied into our patch panel who wasn't authorized and I personally pulled the cable. When the responsible party showed up to scream about being cut off he was handed his hat and told to go speak to the Head Sheriff and ask HIM if I had that much authority. I did.. he didn't. The best security is ISOLATION!

  51. Why am I paying for it? by blair1q · · Score: 1

    Seriously.

    People breaking into a private company is a private company's problem to prevent.

    If they catch someone breaking in, they can report it to the police. Who will probably say something like "we don't do that", which is what they've told me every time I've reported a crime.

  52. Private MSSP's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Whats wrong with mandating these stupid companies get with the program and get IDS through an MSSP(managed security service provider)? I'd be very leery to let Raytheon watch my traffic. Honestly, partly because I don't believe they would be good at it, and obviously the privacy implications.

    Audit and pentest these critical companies, and hit them hard with massive fines if they dont have solid security programs.

    There are a lot of companies that can do it MUCH better for less. Secureworks, and Symantec (Riptech) both have the threat intelligence across verticals, and malware reversing capability to do it better.

  53. Be thankful... by whizbang77045 · · Score: 1

    We should be thankful for a big brother who cares so much for us.

  54. Re:why is the grid and nuclear plants on the Net a by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    So the control system can be virtualized and run/monitored by operators in India and the Czech Republic.

  55. How do we feel about NSA spyware by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Like we get a choice. Its already out there. This just brings it out into the open to serve as a deterrent.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  56. what if the NSA gets hacked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    who says the NSA is impervious themselves, they could at some point have rogue employees working for them, or other vulnerabilities, there is no such thing as perfect. then assuming they install their software on all critical infrastructure, and i imagine it will have additional functionality besides just monitoring, an attacker just needs to seize control of NSA's software, rather than being forced to attack each different piece of completely different types of infrastructure. instead of going after many keys of all shapes and sizes, they only need the master key to take everything down. this is one of those ideas that looks good on a NSA whiteboard in a conference room, but in practice, could be the worst possible thing they could do.

  57. at least the NSA konws what Linux is and army uses by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    at least the NSA konws what Linux is and army uses it a long with mac os as well.

  58. The power grid has manual off switches on the line by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

    The power grid has manual off switches on the lines

  59. critical inrastructure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "drill and spill baby. drill and spill"

  60. NSA has a slight conflict of interest. by zQuo · · Score: 1

    The NSA is the government agency with excellent expertise to protect against computer based attacks. Unfortunately the NSA's original mission is to gather intelligence from foreign communications, and in fuzzy cases, domestic communications that may possibly turn out to be "foreign communications". Protecting citizens from cyber-attacks is a laudable goal, but is an add-on tacked on to their actual responsibility of protect US national security systems. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency , http://www.nsa.gov/

    This is the conflict of interest for the NSA in protecting citizens' data and computing; they also wish to gather intelligence. Any worker in the NSA will always have the temptation to mix the two purposes slightly. As a result, the internet community tends to suspect solutions provided by the NSA, even if provided in good faith.

    One idea I've encountered is to have a separate agency with the unambiguous purpose of protecting citizen's data and computing, something hopefully similar to the CDC, the Center for Disease Control, which prevents diseases. Such an agency may be more transparent than the NSA, which is unfortunately limited in having to serve several purposes.

  61. Not so fast partner. by anorlunda · · Score: 1

    Allow me to put on the hat of grid operations security for a moment.

    1) I can't allow a third party to put boxes in my network based on someone's assurances about what they do or don't do. I need to audit the hardware and software they contain. NSA would probably deny me that access.

    2) What qualifies government in general and NSA in particular as trusted partners for grid security? Government is already asking for authority to put a kill switch on the Internet, how do I know if they might have similar ambitions for the grid? Might NSA want a back door they can use to seize control of the grid away from me? My mission is simple and clear -- keep the lights on and keep the power grid secure and to do so whether or not the government wants it that way.

    It may be far-fetched but nevertheless easily imaginable that my mission may conflict with government's at some point.

    1. Re:Not so fast partner. by zero0ne · · Score: 1

      wrong, your mission is to make money for your shareholders.

      This means you, as a company have no qualms with cutting corners in areas to keep that profit going.

      Yes you may be a power company, but you are still a publicly shared company.

      Also, if you want to keep that government certification or whatnot, you'll add that box or get audited to hell and back.

  62. Helping Ignorant Capitalists? by H3xx · · Score: 1

    Don't. Network. Critical. Systems. How hard can it be to figure this out?

    --
    "Ubuntu" - an African word meaning "Slackware is too hard for me."
  63. encryption by shnull · · Score: 1

    is the future ...

    --
    beware he who denies you access to information for in his mind, he already deems himself to be your master (SMAC-ish)
  64. Its a really big problem, with lots of parts. by natoochtoniket · · Score: 1

    Dedicated circuits do not achieve security if the circuit passes through any unsecured location. The security between two endpoints can be achieved only by security-oriented communication protocol such as encryption, or by physically securing the entire path between the endpoints. Even then, the resulting implementation must be examined constantly by multiple parties, each with a goal of finding a security defect. And then, we can only hope that each defect is found by a friendly party.

    Part of the problem with infrastructure is that it is very highly distributed. We aren't just talking about big power plants and water plants. We are also talking about every electric transformer, every telco switching device, every traffic light at an intersection, every radio in a police car or fire truck, and every water main. Those things are scattered throughout the entire country. Millions of power and telco devices are mounted on utility poles. Physical security just isn't an option.

    Another part of the problem is that millions of those devices are old. Many have some remote control capability, but very little in the way of processing power or software upgrade capacity. The cost (in materials and labor) to upgrade all of those devices is just astronomical. And, after replacing an individual device, there is no guarantee that the (new) device cannot be hacked in the future.

    And, of course, keeping two networks separate is hard to do. When two networks have millions of nodes each, they are likely to touch somewhere. Even one device with two interfaces can potentially route between the networks. And, even one entry-level installer who gets confused or bribed, can install that one device.

    So, it's just a really big problem, with lots of parts, so the solution is going to have lots of parts. Dedicated lines for some specific applications might be part of the solution. An upgrade program for the basic hardware/software units is clearly part of the solution. A sensor system to detect intrusion is clearly needed as part of the solution. A control system to shut down or disconnect the source of an intrusion after it is detected, might be part of the solution (though that might introduce another vulnerability). Firewalls to limit the scope of an intrusion, or at least to slow down the spread, is surely part of the solution. No one of these approaches can address the whole thing.

    And, the whole process is going to take time. Security is a never-ending process, not a one-time project. Each time a new vulnerability is identified, a new response is needed, and each new response takes time to roll out. So, part of the solution is to set priorities -- to focus each new response on the most important resources, first.