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The Creativity Crisis

An anonymous reader writes with this quote from an article at Newsweek: "For the first time, research shows that American creativity is declining. ... Like intelligence tests, Torrance's test — a 90-minute series of discrete tasks, administered by a psychologist — has been taken by millions worldwide in 50 languages. Yet there is one crucial difference between IQ and CQ scores. With intelligence, there is a phenomenon called the Flynn effect — each generation, scores go up about 10 points. Enriched environments are making kids smarter. With creativity, a reverse trend has just been identified and is being reported for the first time here: American creativity scores are falling. Kyung Hee Kim at the College of William & Mary discovered this in May, after analyzing almost 300,000 Torrance scores of children and adults. Kim found creativity scores had been steadily rising, just like IQ scores, until 1990. Since then, creativity scores have consistently inched downward. 'It's very clear, and the decrease is very significant,' Kim says. It is the scores of younger children in America — from kindergarten through sixth grade — for whom the decline is 'most serious.'"

130 of 571 comments (clear)

  1. Play time? by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Shocking, who'd've thought that standardized testing, eliminating recess and general free time would have consequences. Perhaps actually letting kids play would help that.

    1. Re:Play time? by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unsupervised 'play' is far too dangerous for little snowflake. Think of the lawsuits.

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:Play time? by Third+Position · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, I don't really think the article tells us enough to come to any conclusions. Obviously, the population of America in 2010 is very different from the population in 1960. I'd like to see the demographics amplified. What is the socio-economic background of the creative? What parts of the country do they come from? Where and how have they been educated? What is the correlation to race/class? What kind of family relationships do they have? How does parental participation influence creativity?

      I'm not getting the feeling there's a lot of helpful information here.

      --
      American Third Position
      Finally, a real choice!
    3. Re:Play time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ha! Are you using the data from one type of standardized test (CQ) to criticize the validity of other standardized tests?

      Perhaps we need to just teach to the test (CQ). That will certainly make kids more creative.

      Also, am I the only one who is confused on how you can use a standardized test to measure something like creativity? How can you objectively measure something that is so subjective?

    4. Re:Play time? by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When you look back in time, the only pattern I've ever seen is access to implements and free time. Admittedly, that's highly unscientific, but having free time in which to do nothing and where one doesn't have to produce as a portion of the day is really important if one wishes to create anything.

    5. Re:Play time? by AnonymousClown · · Score: 5, Funny

      Obviously, the population of America in 2010 is very different from the population in 1960

      That's right! In the 1960s, they used more creativity enhancing substances.

      I think this article is a case for the legalization of recreational drugs.

      KEEP AMERICA CREATIVE! SMOKE POT!

      --
      RIP America

      July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    6. Re:Play time? by houghi · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm not getting the feeling there's a lot of helpful information here.

      Just use your imagination. Jeez!

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    7. Re:Play time? by erroneus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There's slightly more to it than that I fear.

      One of the most important things I learned in art classes were in how to visualize things to produce better realism. This was important so that things that I would later imagine became more realistic and better developed. This all developed a more structured imagination which enabled more complexity of imagination and creativity.

      The problem with today's young minds as I see it is a decrease in ability to concentrate and build complex things from more simple things. The famed "short attention span" often called "AD/HD" or the like are, in my view, the simple lack of a practiced mind. Kids don't play with building toys as much as they once did -- they play with action figures re-enacting scenes from their favorite movies. More, there is a decrease in the actual participation of adults in play! That is a HUGE factor.

      When my older boys were between 7 and 10, they told me "we like you because you are always tricking us." And I was. I was testing their minds and perception with tricks and jokes of various sorts. Some times they would figure it out on their own, other times I had to provide clues and hints. Whatever the case, their minds were challenged and they enjoyed it. Fast forward to present day, I have a 19 year old entering the nuclear sciences field and a 17 year old in advanced college courses while in high school. They are both extremely fun and creative individuals with strong logic, reasoning and math skills along with interests in music and graphic arts. These boys can literally do anything they want in life as their skill set is adaptable and versatile. This was no accident... and strangely, they are also quite happy when compared to the common "achiever" who is pressured by parents for excellent grades and the like.

      My boys targeted mastery and personal fulfilment as their paths. The common "achiever" tends to "study for the test" and fills in the blocks for achievement set before them by curricular academics. My boys aren't #1 in their peer groups though... they aren't any of those latin titles/ranks. Those are most often for the achievers to struggle and fight for. Instead, they are simply the best they can be while being happy and satisfied with themselves which is all I ever wanted for them.

      What is lacking as much as things no longer available in school, is parental participation. And what is more unfortunate is that this has been a problem in my own generation and now two generations of parents lack the experience of good parent teaching themselves and have no clue nor inclination to provide that experience for their children. Our society of instant gratification and bubblegum pop culture has dug a hole that it won't easily climb out of until the next renaissance which isn't likely to happen again any time soon.

      What gets me is that I didn't actually have the ideal family experience growing up. I had divorced parents. I had split custody juggling me around. I had a mother who more or less personified the parent who didn't care to teach her son anything (I once humiliated myself by assuming than an "address" was something girls wore and told my teacher that I didn't have one because I was a boy!) and a father who only had every-other-weekend to teach me the things he thought I should know and frankly, I wasn't all that interested in learning from him. He managed to teach me things anyway when I wasn't noticing and he taught me the nature of numbers... negative and positive, wholes and decimals/fractions... all in a matter of about 30 minutes in front of an oscilloscope. No exaggeration and no joke. That was when the lights came on in my head and frankly, I believe that's all a kid needs -- something to turn the lights on.

      We do have a problem in our schools, but the biggest problem is with our parents. Many people reading me here today are parents. Are you challenging your kids? Are you "tricking" them with riddles and jokes? Are you showing them why wheels are amazing inventions? Do t

    8. Re:Play time? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When you look back in time, the only pattern I've ever seen is access to implements and free time. Admittedly, that's highly unscientific, but having free time in which to do nothing and where one doesn't have to produce as a portion of the day is really important if one wishes to create anything.

      Google's 20%, for example?

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    9. Re:Play time? by KiltedKnight · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's probably the only place creativity has increased.... how to come up with yet another stifling law suit that the ball-less judges won't throw out as frivolous.

      --
      OCO is Loco
    10. Re:Play time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A lot of the comments here suggest that decreasing creativity is part of a grand scheme for mind control. Perhaps, but Hanlon's razor comes to mind. There remains plenty of space for creativity outside of school. Lawsuits have become a real nuisance, and standardization of everything is just an efficient way to minimize damage.

      It's worthwhile to compare these findings to those of other countries. I don't have answers, but in many Asian schools, it's all about rote memorization, and has been for a very long time. In many Asian cultures, conformity is encouraged, so whether creativity is valued at all depends on the society. As someone else hinted, America might value creativity a little too much, often giving praise to irrelevant and bizarre ideas.

    11. Re:Play time? by Jurily · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unsupervised 'play' is far too dangerous for little snowflake.

      Yeah, what if they actually learn something by accident?

    12. Re:Play time? by Jurily · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't have answers, but in many Asian schools, it's all about rote memorization, and has been for a very long time. In many Asian cultures, conformity is encouraged, so whether creativity is valued at all depends on the society.

      I've worked with South Koreans once, and over three months, I couldn't find any correlation between their actions and common sense. For example, when a brand new $100 million piece of equipment malfunctions, my first thought would be to get the on-site American engineer they flew in to assemble it, and not a hammer and some duct tape.

      Also, they almost fired me on my first day because I didn't wear the uniform they didn't give me yet.

    13. Re:Play time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      More, there is a decrease in the actual participation of adults in play!

      In my experience the opposite is true. I'm old, and when I was young adults were never involved in our play. In the school holidays my mother would organize a day out about once a week but the rest of the time was almost exclusively adult free. There was no TV so my brothers and I had to (dare I say it) create our own entertainment.

      The children I know today spend virtually no time playing in the sense I understood it. When they're not being ferried from one structured (adult led) activity to the next, they're in front of a TV or computer with an adult nearby.

      You think children's lives lack adult involvement. I think they don't get enough time to themselves. God knows which is better for them.

    14. Re:Play time? by Darth+Sdlavrot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also, they almost fired me on my first day because I didn't wear the uniform they didn't give me yet.

      This sort of stupidity occurs all over the place.

      Case in point---

      One day not too long ago I arrived at work at 7:15 or so and parked my car. During the day a sign was installed in front of my car indicating that the spot was "Reserved for $product MVP of the month."

      At the end of the day when I left to go home I found a note on my windshield from some asshat telling me not to park in the MVP reserved spot.

      The coward didn't have the nerve to sign their note, so I didn't get the satisfaction of moving the sign in front of their car and leaving a similar note for them.

    15. Re:Play time? by sharkman67 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Your right on the mark. I live in a affluent New England town with one of the highest rated school systems. I was disgusted with the school system this past year. This year in first grade we got a young (mid 20 yr old) teacher who did nothing but stifle creativity. When I asked about art and music she said that that's what the 'specials' are for. The specials are art, gym, library, music. They only do each one once a week. It was a really struggle to get through the year. I saw the spark in these kids eyes extinguished. Talking to the principal and superintendent of schools yielded no results.

      Last year my daughter had an amazing Kindergarten teacher. One that has been around for 40 years. She constantly bucked the system by really focusing on creativity for the kids. And when they worked hard they were taken outside for extra recess or other activities. She ignored the principal and directives from the school and I tell you the kids that came out of her class are amazing. It's a shame that she is a rare breed these days and I fear the future generations will have no teachers like her....

    16. Re:Play time? by erroneus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Point taken and accepted. I too spent hours and hours with my brothers "playing computer" inside of a cardboard box that once held a refrigerator. (Back on those days, computers were LARGE devices that communicated with people on slips of paper and lots of lights flashing and sounds of machinery and beeping and blipping... blipping and beeping... beeping and blipping!!!!) Logan's Run and Space 1999 were the TV shows I watched and loved among others. It's true that children should be left to their own devices in many respects, but parents ALSO need to have some input and influence as well.

      I didn't mean to suggest that parents should be there every second of every minute of every hour of every day. And in fact, I rather alluded to that fact as I told my own story of my uninvolved mother and my part-time father. I was mostly left to my own devices. And you have an extremely valuable point in that kids need to be able to explore and roam and test and experience on their own a lot. I was reflecting with my wife the other day that many of the things I did as a kid would result in "serious psychiatric counselling" or even charges of terrorism today. I played with fire, fireworks, BB guns and threw rocks and was cruel to animals and raised all kinds of hell. Back in those days "boys will be boys" was repeated a lot ... occasionally by police officers. (hehehe) I'm no violent psychopathic criminal though... I just needed to learn those lessons as a child so I didn't take my misguided ways into adulthood. :)

      A good balance is needed and I think we can both agree that a good balance is not available to most kids today.

    17. Re:Play time? by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And what about those standardized toys that you can buy - Made in China.

      Everything today is "tamper proof", so it's not possible to open the devices, and if you are able to do it - there is nothing to learn.

      And then - what happens at home is that the kids can't go visit their friends at will - it's far too dangerous to place the kid on a bicycle to meet some friends and then play at a nearby stream without supervision where they can build a small dam or play with small boats that they have made themselves. Going out when it's raining - that won't happen. Every kid needs to be supervised and transported by car to their friends.

      And when kids are at home they aren't placed into doing something creative but instead placed in front of the TV or possibly at the computer where they can play some point and shoot game that won't stimulate the creativity. And then the kids today also are fully active in interaction with their friends via SMS and IM which shortens their attention span.

      What builds creativity? - That's a good question, but it seems to me that a too short attention span where there is a shortness of true idleness periods and triggering of the imagination is failing. Watching a movie is to consume the imagination of someone else while reading a book leaves room for yourself to develop your imagination triggered by the author. Don't forget that "necessity is the mother of invention", so if there is no need to invent (like when you read a book you need to invent the pictures) the creativity isn't triggered. I'm not saying that you should ban all movies, but rather to limit the volume.

      As for books to read - check out adventure books describing the discoveries and travels of other persons (real or imaginary) will be one path. Don't worry if the 9 year old takes a nose dive in some book intended for adults. That's just a new level of challenges and a learning about the world. Worry more if the kid don't touch books at all. And remember - there are no "bad" literature, that's just an invention by some people that want to think that they have a high standard. The important thing is to read.

      Kids also learns from trial and error - and if nothing is broken ever and the kid never gets some bruises now and then from failing an idea the is either lacking all initiative or is so over-protected that creativity has been hemmed in.

      As long as the kids aren't doing anything criminal there is not much to worry about. Creativity in criminality is what we shall fear most. Creativity in reassembling junk into new things is no problem (except that you will have some junk lying around now and then).

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    18. Re:Play time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, the kids are all on drugs, but not the recreational kind. It keeps them dull and passive in the guise of "treating" AHDD. Gosh I wonder if there might be some relationship between expressing boredom with rote learning drills by doing other (unapproved) things instead of sitting like a zombie, and creativity. Nah, couldn't be anything like that, right?

    19. Re:Play time? by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the point is that adults need to be available if needed, but not necessarily directly involved in play.

      When I was growing up, single income families were the norm (typically the father). That meant your mother was home. Neighbors were in general trusted. We could run about the neighborhood in safety. If an adult was needed, it wasn't hard to find one. If you were up to no good, there were enough adults around that you'd be found out eventually.

      Since that time, we've gone to a combination of two income families and single parent families. Meanwhile, nobody feels sure there isn't a serial killer or a molester in the neighborhood (probably because they're too busy working to have cookouts with the neighbors and they haven't quite gotten over "stranger danger").

      Put that together and you have a bunch of kids who aren't ALLOWED to go outside after school. Then (perhaps out of a sense of guilt at not being there) the kids get shuttled off to structured events on the weekend.

      I think you make a good point as well. Kids make mistakes sometimes and there's no need to get an army of psychologists, cops, and judges involved in the vast majority of cases. That goes right up through the teen years.

      I've noticed that it applies to more than just discipline as well. The same injury that caused my dad to ask if I cracked the driveway, some iodine, and a bandage now seems to result in a panicked rush to the E.R.

      There's no one thing, and no quick fix. Sadly, since part of the fix calls for better pay and less hours for the working class, I guess we can just forget about it until the next revolution, those are bad for corporations.

    20. Re:Play time? by 5pp000 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I've worked with South Koreans once, and over three months, I couldn't find any correlation between their actions and common sense. For example, when a brand new $100 million piece of equipment malfunctions, my first thought would be to get the on-site American engineer they flew in to assemble it, and not a hammer and some duct tape.

      Right! The American engineer would know where to whack with the hammer, and where to stick the duct tape.

      --
      Your god may be dead, but mine aren't!
    21. Re:Play time? by stonewallred · · Score: 4, Interesting

      41 years old, grew up in the semi-rural south. When I was 10 or 11, during the summer it was hit the door around 7am or so and maybe come back for lunch or we might go to a friend's and eat, or then again, we might be 10 miles away and grab something at the general store or whatever. Had to be home by full dark was the only real rule. Now a days if a kid is out of sight, the parents want an implanted GPS and full time audio/video feed. Black powder firecrackers, made from smokeless gunpowder and newspaper with paper towel fuses soaked in rubbing alcohol (get a kid a life sentence as a terrorist today) or mixing our own special brands of pesticides out of whatever stuff looked and smelled like it would kill bugs. Homemade napalm for starting camp fires for the frog legs after we would gig up a mess of them. BB gun wars, riding bicycles in skateboard parks or out in the woods where natural gullies made ramps 10-15 foot high, all without helmets or any pads (other than those shitty ones wrapped around the bike in strategic places). I can imagine the screams of child abuse, endangerment and neglect if these modern day parents found out I was letting my kid do the same stuff.

    22. Re:Play time? by doom · · Score: 4, Funny

      Do they know how to fix a tire on their bicycle? (Do they even ride a bicycle?)

      Are you seriously suggesting that children should be out riding bicycles, unsupervised? This is horribly irresponsible and dangerous behavior. Everyone knows you should never let our child out of the house unless encased in a plastic shell strapped down inside a steel cage, with at least two armed adults to protect it. Otherwise it might be kidnapped by mexican pedophile flying saucers from mars.

    23. Re:Play time? by kbielefe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I also wonder who they would get to score the test. My 9 year-old nephew had an assignment recently where part of the instructions were to "put a line under" certain items. He used vertical lines under the items instead of horizontal lines and was heavily marked down. Now, I'm a little biased, but I would have actually given bonus points for creativity. Instead, my sister had to go to bat for him just to get the minimum score he deserved, because his teacher was completely incapable of recognizing a correct answer that happens to differ from the expected one.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank.
    24. Re:Play time? by SpecBear · · Score: 2, Funny

      Look around at all of the objects in your room and ask yourself "How could I turn this into a bong?" Then put the same question to someone who's high.

    25. Re:Play time? by w0mprat · · Score: 5, Funny

      Everything today is "tamper proof", so it's not possible to open the devices, and if you are able to do it - there is nothing to learn.

      Thanks to devices like the iPad the next generation won't even have root access to their devices.

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    26. Re:Play time? by Golddess · · Score: 2, Funny

      BB gun wars, riding bicycles in skateboard parks or out in the woods where natural gullies made ramps 10-15 foot high, all without helmets or any pads (other than those shitty ones wrapped around the bike in strategic places).

      You had me until this. If your eye protection, helmets, or pads are interfering with your activities, then you're doing something wrong. Either you've got improper gear or you're using it incorrectly.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    27. Re:Play time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As a South Korean I've worked with, over the last 10 years, many people from all over the World here in New Zealand.

      For a lot of the people that I've worked with, I could not find any correlation between their actions and common sense.

      For example, one American decided to delete all data in one of our test database table because he decided that there were too many rows and it took too long for him to use his SQL developer to "scroll down" to find the row he wanted. For the next two days, other five testers had to spend time re-crafting the test data.

      Also, one Kiwi program manager almost fired my (hard working) project manager (who happened to be from Singapore) because he did not want to take the blame for the under budgeted project that ran over budget.

      Now how the fuck does this deserve Score:5 Interesting?

    28. Re:Play time? by xtal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You miss the point. Back then there was no "gear". You just went out on your bike.

      --
      ..don't panic
    29. Re:Play time? by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One of the biggest lies in the world:

      Bob: "Hey Joe, what are you going to do today?"
      "Oh I don't know Bob, I think I'll smoke a joint and do something."

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    30. Re:Play time? by ShakaUVM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>However, underlining is universally recognized to be a horizontal line

      Universally recognized by people OVER 9 years old. Give me a fucking break. Kids don't come born into the world with knowledge pre-implanted in their heads. Kids experiment with language and actions, and try different things before some adult slaps them down for coloring outside the lines.

    31. Re:Play time? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Joce and hedwards - you are on to something.

      As the US has moved into the bean counter and lawyer stage of it's life, we have stopped trying to make wealth, and started figuring out ways to extract wealth form other people. So as the bean counters wrest control, we see a dropoff of "useless" things like recess, art class, and for Gawd's sake no! That kid over there has some free time! Horrors! Coupled with parents who have dubious parenting skills themselves, and overcompensate horribly. You're one of them if you think that putting a gps on the family car to track Juniors whereabouts is an awesome idea. Also, if we force entire generations of children to look at things only from a material point of view, and constantly monitor their actions, yeah, creativity will suffer.

      So we have a generation of adults who were never allowed to mature, whose helicoptering parents, with well meaning but ultimately destructive actions, who didn't have a free minute to reflect on anything or figure out how to interact in an adult setting without a parent intervening - yes they don't have the ability to think very creatively. I feel badly for them.

      Anyhow its either that or the fertilizer chemicals from when the little bastards cut across my lawn,

      --
      Why is this even on SlashDot?... Why is this even on Slashdot?...Why is this even on Slashdot?
  2. Thank God for standardized testing by Overzeetop · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have a rising third grader. I've been informed that the next year will be all about memorization of the necessary facts which will get her to pass the Virginia "Standards Of Learning" (yes, they really call them the SOLs) exam at year end. Everything in the school system, from her promotion to the evaluations of the teachers, administrators, and facility are tied to these scores. There is no creativity required or recommended on these exams.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is no creativity required or recommended on these exams

      So what? School only lasts a few hours a day. What are you doing for the hours, days, and months between classes to actually make a difference? Creativity is fostered in a big-picture way. Kids will bring creativity to their school work and opportunities if it's a solid part of the environment and circumstances in which they're raised.

      Creativity is declining because parents are washing their hands of the responsibility to shape the minds of their own kids. You don't get an inquisitive, creative mind at school - you arrive at school with one.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    2. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No one who is directly involved in the education of children should wash their hands of teaching creativity. Creativity should be fostered at home and at school and teachers should be very much aware of that.

      A part of the problem is that schools focus too much on finding solutions to problems. That's a critical part of problem solving, but the much more crucial part is formulating the problem in the first place. That's a creative process and what is completely missed by teaching to standards.

    3. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Creativity is declining because parents are washing their hands of the responsibility to shape the minds of their own kids. You don't get an inquisitive, creative mind at school - you arrive at school with one.

      Where it is promptly beaten out of you.

      The article didn't say creativity has disappeared. It said it's declining. It doesn't take disinterested parents to do that, all it takes is the removal of one previously encouraging environment to tip the balance in the other direction.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    4. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Let me clarify: in my house, creativity is highly encouraged. We work with my daughter every night (though not in a "structured" way that feels like work). She's a wonderful child who loves music and theater, is reading about 4 grades above her "level", and is on par in math.

      The problem is that the regimented way in which some things are taught can lead to problems in learning. After a very poorly presented math year in first grade, we spent most of last year trying to "undo" the damage. She's terrified of subtraction (first grade), and yet multiplication and fractions (second grade) are "fun." It took us most of first grade to figure out that the teacher didn't like math, so she tried not to teach it - just timed workbooks and tests.

      I do think that more than half of the problems in school stem from problems at home. It seems that very few (one in ten, one in eight?) families actually work with their children in a meaningful way. The rest are left to drift, or are actively discouraged from academic pursuits. After long days at work, the parents are tired and don't really want the burden of teaching anything. Sad, really.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    5. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by shoemilk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes. It's the school's fault. I am perfect. I raise my kids as they should be: TV, Internet flash games, and pre-determined interactive iPad apps.

    6. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by nedlohs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      School lasts 6 hours a day, which is a pretty big chunk of time. And a lot of that time is spent turning kids into uncreative conformist machines - if they resist that then they label them ADHD and drug the creativity out of them instead.

      But yes the fact that lots of families need both parents to work in order to make ends meet (though that pre-dates the 1990s a little) and that childrens' activities are far more structured than they once were isn't helping.

    7. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by statusbar · · Score: 5, Informative
      Ken Robinson spoke of this at TED years ago:

      http://www.ted.com/speakers/sir_ken_robinson.html

      highly recommended talks...and funny too.

      --jeffk

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
    8. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by Moryath · · Score: 4, Informative

      "6 hours"? You're joking, right?

      The school day (average kid) where I grew up was as follows:
      6 AM: Get out of bed.
      6:30 AM: Be on bus to school. Be Fucking Quiet for an hour, the bus driver didn't want to have to deal with kids.
      7:30 AM: Unload from buses in "orderly fashion."
      7:45 AM: first class begins.
      11:30 AM: Lunch period begins. Orderly file through line, either eat bag lunch or "hot lunch" option. "Be Quiet" as teachers monitor you.
      12:15 PM: here begins "15 minute recess", consisting of 5 minutes of lining up to go outside, 5 minutes of play, 5 minutes of lining up to go back inside.
      12:30 PM: Classes resume.
      4 PM: Reload on buses. Once again, Be Fucking Quiet.
      5-5:30 PM: Get back home, depending on traffic.
      5:30 PM-6:30PM: Dinner.
      6:30PM-8PM: "Homework", consisting of the boring fucking busy-work that nevertheless will fuck your grades over if you don't do it.
      8pm-9PM: optional (PARENT option, not kid option) practicing of musical instrument or singing if you were enrolled in Music Concentration Camp... er "Music Class" of some sort where we never got to perform anything truly interesting.

      Small wonder the kids have no creativity. The fact that I have mine still is only a function of the fact that I convinced most of my teachers to just give me the homework listings ahead of time and let me do it during school time sitting in the back of class, rather than wasting my evenings on the fucking busy work.

    9. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by emkyooess · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You beat me to it. Creativity is promptly beaten out of you in today's society.

    10. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by houghi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When I was kid, I remember playing with a stick and imagined it was a sword and a gun and a spear and a lightsabre and a shovel and ...
      Now parents will buy the kid a play-lightsabre. You can not imagine that to be a shovel or a gun. You could use it as such, but it isn't one in your mind. The stick WAS everything I wanted it to be.

      When I was young, I read books and imagined how each person looked like. That part is gone. Many kids now have a fixed image of characters and how they must look like. Getting an image imprinted in your memory is the opposite of imagination.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    11. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by Overzeetop · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's that way almost everywhere now. No Child Left Behind (and other, similar programs) has driven school systems to need these benchmarks to survive. I happen to live in one of the best places in the country, imho. Heck, I learned a new trade just so I could move here and make a living. I don't fear for my child's future, but there are lots of parents who just don't care - and that's a universal truth. As for moving to another country - everybody has their own problems. At least here I know what they are.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    12. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by krou · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In the words of Woodrow Wilson, "We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."

      Creativity is not conducive to performing difficult manual tasks.

      --
      'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
    13. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by thomp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > Where it is promptly beaten out of you.

      BS. My three kids (15, 12, 9) are encouraged to express their creativity in ways that I was never allowed when I was their age. In fact, I get a little frustrated that their teachers focus so much on creativity and 'thinking outside the box' that they forget about things like spelling and grammar.

      --
      .sig
    14. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by Eponymous+Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If that's what your school district is like, I would suggest you either get involved and try to make some changes or move.

      When we relocated in 2008, the quality of the local public schools is largely why we picked the house we did. Yes, our property taxes are fairly high ($8000+ / year on a $250k house), but we have a public school within walking distance with small classes (20-22 kids), art, music, and theater teachers, a clean new building and a very active parent base.

      I don't see anybody trying to change the kids into uncreative conformist machines. Unless you are talking about disruptive kids. That generally isn't tolerated, but then I don't know that it should be. The school seems to be a safe, fun, and nurturing place and discipline and self control is part of it.

      Teachers know a lot more about how kids learn than they did when I was a kid (in the '70's). Totally unstructured activities have their place, but so do structured and constrained activities. You don't like how your kids' teacher is balancing the two, talk to them about it.

    15. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Informative

      Small wonder the kids have no creativity.

      Horseshit.
       
      I had the same schedule, as did millions of other kids of my generation - and we're in the demographic where creativity was rising, and continued to rise for a decade after we graduate high school.

    16. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by rfuilrez · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm seeing this even in my work. I'm a mechanic at a large wind turbine manufacturing company. Recently, I moved from the repair side of the business to the new unit assembly. There is a written procedure, from our parent company in Germany (which sucks major balls I might add) to do the new assembly. Any deviation from the written procedure is severely frowned upon. I have found, based on my extended skill-set as a repair technician vs the people who are just assemblers, easier and faster ways of doing things. However, I have been scolded by my new supervisor for doing so.

      It really chops my ass, but you're right. Doing things in creative and different ways is not acceptable for whatever reason...

    17. Re:Thank God for standardized testing by zippthorne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Third grade? Yeah, there ought to be a lot of memorization going on in third grade. You need to have built a foundation of facts before you can be lead to conclusions connecting them. Third grade is your solid rock of foundation, of course you're going to need to memorize a lot of things. That's not the only thing that should be going on, but I doubt that even in your daughter's school that it is the case that that's all they're doing.

      I can almost guarantee, however, that there is nothing in the testing criterion or curriculum guidelines that suggests simply memorizing the things that are going to be on the test. That's a conclusion come to by some of the teachers, or some group that ostensibly represents and aids the teachers in performing their duties. I can think of no other reason to sabotage both the test itself and the children's education at the same time.

      I was in florida during the first few years after they instituted the FCATs. There were a lot of complaints that teachers would be "teaching to the test." and whatnot, but after the results came in it was clear than in some whole counties, they weren't even teaching to the test. How do you propose to discover and correct that?

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  3. Expected by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you're familiar with the founding principals of the public education system this isn't a surprise. Schools were intentionally designed by early 20th century psychologists to reduce creativity and increase conformity.

    If anything, it's surprising that it took this long before this effect started to manifest.

    1. Re:Expected by CRCulver · · Score: 4, Insightful

      John Taylor Gatto's writings are essentially the ravings of a crackpot. Clear refutations of his thesis that compulsory public schooling is evil include:

      • Countries that are beating the pants of the US in education (and demonstrating continued creativity) have even great enshrinement of public education in law, with homeschooling or parochial schooling virtually unheard of.
      • Gatto's vision of a pre-public education US where everyone was free and freethinking, determined to protect liberty at all costs, is essentially National Romantic hyperbole, and ignores the torrent of histories published over the last several decades which show that the US has always been dominated by oppressive elites and monied interests in spite of its claim to equal opportunity.
      • Gatto claims that US public education teaches people to accept their own social class and stay there, but again, there are countries that show greater class mobility than the US and have an even greater enshrinement of public education.
    2. Re:Expected by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The culprit isn't necessary public education - it's the implementation of it that is practiced in the US today. Gatto has plenty of good things to say about public education as it was implemented throughout most of the 19th century and before.

    3. Re:Expected by bmajik · · Score: 2, Informative

      You could read "Education: Free and Compulsory", by Murray Rothbard. It's available as an online PDF from mises.org, iirc.

      Of course, you will probably decide he is also a "crackpot".

      The US has a relatively unique set of problems that many other places do not suffer from. I frankly do not care how things work in other places - I am concerned with how they can be made to work here, especially for my children.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    4. Re:Expected by Barrinmw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hate that first point, always have. An example is our high school students being compared to high school students in Japan. I am sure if we kicked out our lower 50% from high school and sent them to a trade school instead our scores would be higher too.

    5. Re:Expected by Abcd1234 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Damn right. Why the fuck do people shit all over the trades? I have a bachelors degree in CompSci but I have no fucking clue how to fix a plumbing problem or wire an electrical panel. So does that make me somehow better or worse than the tradesman? Hell no.

    6. Re:Expected by sjames · · Score: 2

      Except that he never said that all public education is intrinsically problematic, just the one we implemented in the U.S.

      He also never said there wasn't a problem with oppressive elites and monied interests before, just that they hadn't re-designed education before.

      So, no, None of those bullet points actually refute anything he actually claimed.

    7. Re:Expected by Savantissimo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your assertions are unsupported, and at odds with Mr. Gatto who has supported his views at length in his book: "The Underground History of American Education" (full text, site may be down). Your points also do not address his points in his essay "Nine Assumptions of Schooling (and Twenty-one Facts the Institution Would Rather Not Discuss)"

      When you have spent decades teaching in a public school, won a statewide "best teacher of the year" award, and written a book on the history of education which required years of research, (or just support your points with better evidence) then perhaps your opinions might be given equal weight to those of Mr. Gatto on this subject. As it is, you are just some guy on the internet flinging accusations of crackpottery at a better man with a better argument and better evidence.

      To get back to the topic at hand, here is a section from Gatto's article: "Confederacy of Dunces the Tyranny of Compulsory Schooling"

      Mass dumbness is vital to modem society. The dumb person is wonderfully flexible clay for psychological shaping by market research, government policymakers; public-opinion leaders, and any other interest group. The more pre-thought thoughts a person has memorized, the easier it is to predict what choices he or she will make. What dumb people cannot do is think for themselves or ever be alone for very long without feeling crazy. That is the whole point of national forced schooling; we aren't supposed to be able to think for ourselves because independent thinking gets in the way of "professional" think-ing, which is believed to follow rules of scientific precision.

      Modern scientific stupidity masquerades as intellectual knowledge - which it is not. Real knowledge has to be earned by hard and painful thinking; it can't be generated in group discussions or group therapies but only in lonely sessions with yourself. Real knowledge is earned only by ceaseless questioning of yourself and others, and by the labor of independent verification; you can't buy it from a government agent, a social worker, a psychologist, a licensed specialist, or a schoolteacher. There isn't a public school in this country set up to allow the discovery of real knowledge - not even the best ones - although here and there individual teachers, like guerrilla fighters, sabotage the system and work toward this ideal. But since schools are set up to classify people rather than to see them as unique, even the best schoolteachers are strictly limited in the amount of questioning they can tolerate.

      The new dumbness - the non thought of received ideas - is much more dangerous than simple ignorance, because it's really about thought control. In school, a washing away of the innate power of individual mind takes place, a "cleansing" so comprehensive that original thinking becomes difficult. If you don't believe this development was part of the intentional design of schooling, you should read William Torrey Harris's The Philosophy of Education. Harris was the U.S. Commissioner of Education at the turn of the century and the man most influential in standardizing our schools. Listen to the man.

      "Ninety-nine [students] out of a hundred," writes Harris, "are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom." This is not all accident, Harris explains, but the "result of substantial education, which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual." Scientific education subsumes the individual until his or her behavior becomes robotic. Those are the thoughts of the most influential U.S. Commissioner of Education we've had so far.

      The great theological scholar Dietrich Bonhoeffer raised this issue of the new dumbness in his brilliant analysis of Nazism, in which he sought to comprehend how the best-schooled nation in the world, Germany, could fall unde

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    8. Re:Expected by CRCulver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When you have spent decades teaching in a public school, won a statewide "best teacher of the year" award, and written a book on the history of education which required years of research...

      Right, and no one can criticize Smedley Butler's War is a Racket agitprop until they've risen themselves through the ranks of the Marines to become a general? No. Lunatic positions are lunatic positions, regardless of the author's past. Argument from authority is a fallacy.

  4. The obvious culprit according to the media by Myji+Humoz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the article:

    "It’s too early to determine conclusively why U.S. creativity scores are declining. One likely culprit is the number of hours kids now spend in front of the TV and playing videogames rather than engaging in creative activities. Another is the lack of creativity development in our schools. In effect, it’s left to the luck of the draw who becomes creative: there’s no concerted effort to nurture the creativity of all children."

    One of the test questions was “How could you improve this toy to make it better and more fun to play with?”

    If you went to the average TV viewer and asked them what could make their T.V. shows better, I sincerely doubt that they could give a succinct and "creative" set of ideas that would improve various shows. If you asked a video gamer for say an MMO like WoW or even a browser game like Farmville what suggestions they have to improve the games, you would probably have to gag them to get them to shut up. For video game fans, new ideas (some of them quite creative workarounds) are a dime a dozen, and the challenge is filtering them to find the best ideas for how to gear/play a character or how to run a farm.

    Video games are almost perpetually linked with television by virtue of being activities in which one sits down in front of a glowing screen, but video games tend to be highly interactive with constant feedback/user response while television is nearly 100% passive. (American Idol voting doesn't count) I would agree that the increase of mindshare and time devoted to passive pursuits could decrease creativity, but I really wish that the media would, as a group, get a better idea of how different video games and television shows are. The difference between games and t.v. is the difference between using a kitchen knife to chop vegetables and using a kitchen knife to stab people, yet again, video games are taking more blame for making our kids less creative than the school systems' standardized tests and performance obsessed culture.

    --
    Signatures are the new names.
    1. Re:The obvious culprit according to the media by Ihmhi · · Score: 4, Funny

      "It’s too early to determine conclusively why U.S. creativity scores are declining. One likely culprit is the number of hours kids now spend in front of the TV and playing videogames rather than engaging in creative activities.

      Hey now, I got pretty creative in Counter-Strike. I creatively invented all kinds of words like donghugger and cuntwaffle.

    2. Re:The obvious culprit according to the media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      But while you were typing them, someone got you with their AWP and you then understood the value of short words like "OMG HAX!"

  5. Cable TV? by ciggieposeur · · Score: 4, Interesting

    1980-1990 seems about the time cable television became more common than OTA TV. OTA TV used to be very boring for children, but cable brought Nickelodeon and the Disney channel in homes to become defacto babysitters for millions of kids.

  6. The inevitable result by paper+tape · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The inevitable result of being taught to accept everything they are taught without question, rather than being taught the basics and critical thinking, is that students mostly stop asking important questions. Even if they do ask, they depend on someone else to provide "the one true answer" - because they don't have the tools to arrive at a useful answer on their own.

    1. Re:The inevitable result by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even if they do ask, they depend on someone else to provide "the one true answer" - because they don't have the tools to arrive at a useful answer on their own.

      Which provides for a compliant, easily manipulable population. Remove the capacity to handle mathematics and even basic statistics, and you have people who literally can be told what to think.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  7. The misdirection is serious. by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Music teaches focus. Art cannot be done without fully applying yourself. Sports teaches teamwork and pragmatic execution. Yet we cut all that and emphasize stuff in text books, as if they were bibles. No wonder creativity is stuck in a pot hole.

    Anyone with any slight interest in the topic must see:
    Sir Ken Robinson: Do schools kill creativity?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY&playnext_from=QL&playnext=1

    1. Re:The misdirection is serious. by Overzeetop · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Without conformity, there is no order
      Without creativity, there is no enjoyment

      We need both, but "success" in society requires a minimum level of bookish competence. I think our definition of success (middle class lifestyle, as practiced in the US) has outstripped the intellectual ability of the average human. Nonetheless, we keep focusing on drilling them with facts that we think will get people into jobs which will provide them with food, shelter, healthcare, and recreation they expect. The constant race to be at the top of the list of countries who rank high in student achievement - as measured by standardized fact testing - also drives this.

      Sadly, there is no way to mimic the "best" school districts for well rounded children who also perform well on tests. No matter what they do, those districts have parents who are active in their childrens' schooling. No federal or state mandate can make that happen in a district with parents who just don't care. So we put on the screws to make the kids test scores hit a specific number, regardless of the consequences. The result is what we see today.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  8. CQ by mwvdlee · · Score: 5, Funny

    How do you measure creativity anyway?

    90 for people that give all the correct answers.
    90-100 for everybody that fills in answers that have nothing to do with the questions.
    100-110 for those that draw pretty pixelated pictures using the multiple choice boxes.
    110-120 for the people that draw pretty pictures outside the boxes.
    130+ when they make the questionaire form into paper mache.

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  9. we play differently now by jsepeta · · Score: 2, Insightful

    rather than playing using our imaginations, most kids prefer to watch tv or play video games. both of these activities are the act of media Consumption, and not of using their own imagination. when i was a kid (now i sound like an old man), my folks would kick my brother and i out of the house and tell us to play until supper time. this meant playing cops and robbers or army man or explorer or maybe some baseball and football. aside from sports, we had to use our imagination a lot - LARPing for normals. of course by the time i was 15 I preferred playing D&D and reading books, which meant less time outside and more time PRETENDING and using my imagination.

    that's why I started playing D&D with my daughter when she turned 8. she loves to read and we have a lot of fun in our campaign. we're always using our imaginations when we play, as opposed to when she's sitting at the computer playing her FLASH games.

    --
    Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
  10. Probably because... by neongrau · · Score: 5, Insightful

    especially in the last years parents pumping their kids full of behavior adjusting drugs? Ritalin maybe?

  11. These tests are bullshit by drewhk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Creativity tests... heh. Most of these tests are completely ridiculous.

    I remember one of these tests where totally stupid answers were given points, just because they are "original". I hate people that think of themselves as "creative", yet, they cannot come up with something PRACTICALLY USEFUL. You can be "very original" and "totally irrelevant" at the same time. For me, creativity means original and usable (in a broad sense -- amusing, entertaining, enthralling, etc count as useful, too).

    I hate even more those people that cry "all these rules just hamper my creativity". Again, bullshit! Limitations often stimulate creativity. Puzzles are all about limits on the solution space. Many writers, painters, poems made up artificial limits for themselves, just to see, what can they do within those limitations. Also, any engineer has to think inside some box, as the final result has to be useful and relevant to the problem at hand. Physicists are limited by the laws of nature -- still, many physicists are very creative -- especially because they have to use seemingly limiting laws to their benefit. Hacking is also a great example where the whole process is about seemingly bending the limits, but you really stay inside them, you just discover ways that were unexpected to be existing inside that "box". Logic is also a limitation. Are you original just because you deny logic? Sometimes yes (in these cases you end up with an augmented logic), but most of the times, no.

    Rant off.

    1. Re:These tests are bullshit by Omnifarious · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think that currently the most frequently bumped against limits are limits imposed by structures of authority. Frequently these limits are arbitrary, capricious and imposed post-hoc, and their violation comes with severe punishments. I think those kinds of limits are dampening rather than inspirational.

    2. Re:These tests are bullshit by drewhk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Frequently these limits are arbitrary, capricious and imposed post-hoc, and their violation comes with severe punishments."

      Yes, those limits are bad.

      But many of the whiners complain about limitations that are not like this. I knew people crying about mathematics problems as they are "hampering their creativity", but in fact, they were just not smart enough to solve the problem. Many of these people think about arts as the most creative thing on earth. While arts involve a lot of creativity, so does engineering.

  12. Its for the Childs Safety by arthurpaliden · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In order to ensure childres safety they are placed and encuraged stay in secuer safe 'creative' environments. Classic example, who here below tha age of 50 has every seen or even played with a 'real' chemistry set.

  13. I blame TV! by Elrac · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If some evil mad scientist were to undertake building a device to systematically destroy creative thinking in humans, I doubt he could do better than the TV programming of this past decade.

    --
    When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Rel
  14. Welcome to the Nanny State by Monsieur+Canard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is yet another example of the dangers inherent in over-parenting. "Don't climb that tree!" "Don't find out what dirt tastes like!" "Don't take the toy apart!"

    This naturally evolves into the adult version. "Don't take pictures of that bridge!" "Don't try to find out what's behind that wall!" "Don't question anything your leaders tell you!"

    It's all part of the plan.

    --
    He took a duck to the face at 250 knots.
    1. Re:Welcome to the Nanny State by Monsieur+Canard · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I like my iPod Touch (as close as I'll ever get to an iPhone).

      To give you an example of what I'm talking about here, I read Oliver Sachs excellent memoir "Uncle Tungsten" where he recounts his childhood discovery and fascination with chemistry and science in general. He talk about going down to a local store in London around the WWII era and buying sodium, phosphorus, and I think even uranium ore. Then he goes home and experiments and mixes and burns and almost blows his house up in the process - yet he learns a lot and does it mostly on his own using his own creativity.

      Nowadays if you build a little rocket in your backyard and set it off, you're liable to get a visit from Homeland Security and be branded a potential terrorist.

      I'm not against security, but at what cost?

      --
      He took a duck to the face at 250 knots.
  15. Rote Teaching, No Child Left Behind by Tisha_AH · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Education in America today is focused almost exclusively on memorizing the tests that will be used to determine school performance. Little emphasis is placed upon creative thinking, deductive logic or expression.

    It is no surprise that we are turning out "trained rats" who can perform a specific set of tasks to pass a test but do not have adequate skills to function in a society where creativity is the driving force for progress.

    --
    Tisha Hayes
    1. Re:Rote Teaching, No Child Left Behind by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If teachers are teaching to the test rather than teaching the children to think, then the fault is lies in the teacher.

      What you don't seem to know is that social promotion and teaching to the lowest common denominator are even worse than what you are describing. Children don't fail, and are not held back. No, an education is no where near as important as self-esteem.

      I remember a time when children didn't have to make any effort at all. I remember the stories of social promotion leading to illiterate high school graduates. Even to day, many students have no respect for their teachers and have no problem disrupting class for everyone solely because they don't want to learn.

      We live in a society that does not value intelligence, full of people who do not value an education any where near as much as they value good grades and a diploma, even if they are neither earned nor deserved.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    2. Re:Rote Teaching, No Child Left Behind by PPH · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is no surprise that we are turning out "trained rats" who can perform a specific set of tasks to pass a test

      Post on Slashdot, get 5 mod points.

      Post on Slashdot, get 5 mod points.

      etc. ......

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  16. Re:Are tech. advances contributing? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    More importantly, I suspect, stuff Just Works now. In the '80s, a typical home computer booted into a programming language. You needed a basic understanding of how it worked to be able to start a game, and a lot of children at least tried playing with the programming environment, because it was there and loading a game took 10 minutes. There was some TV to watch, but not a huge amount. Prefabricated plastic toys were common enough that parents complained that the toys they had as a child were better, but they were simple - you needed to use your imagination to have fun with them.

    Around 1990, home computers started to become good enough that you could use them without any understanding, just pointing and clicking. In fact, the home computer as a market segment died around then - you had consoles (with no ability to run user-modified code) and you had computers aimed at businesses that were also sold to home users. You started getting a lot more TV aimed at children, and toys started coming with microcontrollers and 'interactive' functionality that let you borrow someone else's imagination.

    For a business computer, working without user effort is a good thing. A business computer exists to make some other task easier - you don't want to be thinking about the computer, you want to be thinking about the task. For an educational computer, this is not such an advantage. If stuff doesn't work correctly, you need to use some creativity to fix it. How many people here remember the 'fun' of editing autoexec.bat and config.sys to make a game work? How many children born in the '90s did something similar? Of the two, who do you think has more of an understanding of the purpose of device drivers or of computer memory models?

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  17. Re:Video Games? by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Most computer games do not require creativity. They require quick reflexes and/or the ability to do mindless actions repeatedly for little reward.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  18. This does not surprise me by Omnifarious · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have noticed a distinct trend towards authoritarianism in American culture in the past 20 years. And this has been most especially pronounced in schools. Authoritarianism and creativity are at direct odds with each other.

    My own HS started making changes shortly after I graduated in 1989. They started restricting student's ability to go off campus during the day. And I haven't really gone back to find out what else has changed, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a lot more locked down than when I went.

    I think America became afraid of its young people. There was this idea that young people were becoming increasingly violent and uncontrollable. For example, stories of cold-blooded killings and gang membership became the impetus for changing the laws so it was much more likely juveniles would be prosecuted as adults.

    But I think there was more to it than that, and I'm not completely sure where the wrong turn was taken or what it was.

  19. Validity by AnonymousClown · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I don't see anyone asking if the "creativity test" is even valid.

    How's the test structured? What's the researcher's definition of creativity? What are they measuring? Creativity is a very subjective concept as it is.

    Just because someone creates a test doesn't mean it measures what they think it measures. We've been through all this with intelligence tests.

    --
    RIP America

    July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    1. Re:Validity by biryokumaru · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If only there were people with PhDs on the subject to do tedious and costly research over decades, publishing papers in important psychology journals and conferring with one another to develop a scientific understanding of how the mind works. Then we could trust these people to make scientific determinations about humans the way we can trust engineers to make decisions about bridges, or judges to make decisions about law.

      Too bad psychologists are all a sham and are clearly only making it up as they go along. I mean, I've watched Frasier. Anyone could do their job.

      --
      When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
    2. Re:Validity by Spyware23 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's Neurologists.

    3. Re:Validity by mevets · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your right, there are, and they do. Unfortunately, there is no money in saying "you can't reliably measure that"; so to pay the bills, a little tour in fishnet stockings is required. Take a look at the money behind the "personality test industry" and the papers published about the effectiveness of these tests.

      An anecdote from the straightdope: .......
      The test was developed starting in the 1940s by the mother-daughter team of Katherine Briggs and Isabel Myers with the goal of sorting people based on Carl Jung's theory of psychological types. The best that can be said about the Swiss psychiatrist's ideas is that they were ingenious -- he made no attempt to validate them via experiment. Briggs and Myers, for their part, had no expertise in psychology other than what they picked up from Jung and consultation with people in the testing business. Nonetheless, the MBTI began attracting professional attention in the 1960s, and Consulting Psychologists Press (now CPP) began publishing it in the 1970s. After that the thing took off. .......

    4. Re:Validity by Jurily · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If only there were people with PhDs on the subject to do tedious and costly research over decades, publishing papers in important psychology journals and conferring with one another to develop a scientific understanding of how the mind works.

      Would you trust a field that thinks the electric chair is good for unhappiness?

    5. Re:Validity by Reilaos · · Score: 2, Funny

      If you don't think you can reliably measure creativity, you obviously aren't being creative enough!

    6. Re:Validity by AnonymousClown · · Score: 4, Insightful
      To this day there are plenty criticisms regarding intelligence and creativity tests among the PhDs you mention. And there are a few who find it ridiculous that something as unquantifiable as "intelligence" or "creativity" can be measured with tests.

      This study is being reported in a magazine for the general public. The fact that it's titled "The Creativity Crisis" is enough to have my BS detector on full. "Creativity Crisis"?! Please. How sensationalist can you get?

      FTFA:

      To be creative requires divergent thinking (generating many unique ideas) and then convergent thinking (combining those ideas into the best result).

      Pray tell, what is the "best" result? What some academic thinks is the best result? An engineer or businessman could have completely different idea of what "best" is.

      When I see this study being reproduced with different measures of creativity, then I'll take it seriously.

      --
      RIP America

      July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    7. Re:Validity by Glonoinha · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh yea, I remember this one ...
      The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs, trying to turn itself over but it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    8. Re:Validity by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Funny

      No one who has been sent to the electric chair has ever needed treating for depression afterwards...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:Validity by RJFerret · · Score: 2, Informative

      It seems those who modded this insightful didn't read the article?

      I don't see anyone asking if the "creativity test" is even valid.

      How's the test structured? What's the researcher's definition of creativity? What are they measuring?

      All those things were clearly explained in the article, actually to a wonderful level of depth.

      Creativity is a very subjective concept as it is.

      Au contraire, the results of creativity is subjective, but the objective process is defined in the article, right down to the parts of the brain involved (as seen in an fMRI).

      The article also clearly shows how unlike other standardized tests, the creativity test had an incredible predictive ability. To quote, "Nobody would argue that Torrance’s tasks, which have become the gold standard in creativity assessment, measure creativity perfectly. What’s shocking is how incredibly well Torrance’s creativity index predicted those kids’ creative accomplishments as adults."

  20. Comprehension and hunger to achieve sth by drolli · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I grew up in a surrounding which i pretty much could understand (lets exclude politics here) at age 10. I was presented with toys which you can use to build sth yourself (lego bricks, later lego technics, electronics experimental kits). I was not allowed to watch television unsupervised and in average maybe watched 30 minutes per day. I helped renovate the parents house and played outside in the forest. When i started to play computer games i knew how they were programmed. Which means that for me the fun and the possibilities to do sth depended on and grew with comprehending the world and finding creative ways to use this understanding. To me it seems that kids today are raised under a different paradigm: give them an extreme amount of toys which are completely incomprehensible - and no level on comprehension which the kid could achieve will enable it to reshape this toy. An DVD player will never do anything else. Even computer are castrated nowadays (Hello, who of us did not start programming with typing something on the C128 for curiosity) to be game-consoles only. Electronics kit can never come close - even qualitatively - to the millions of gadgets surrounding us, I dont even want to talk about the sense of security which would forbid that children modify their bikes. Nothing which you paint, write, do, will compare to the best amateur thing you find on the internet. So let me formulate that way: we have raised the level of intelligence and knowledge required before creativity pays of visibly to a level not achievable for most of the kids.

    1. Re:Comprehension and hunger to achieve sth by Darth+Sdlavrot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I grew up with toy bricks (not Lego), Lincoln Logs, Tinker Toys, Erector (Meccano) Sets, chemistry sets, electronic kits, etc.

      My own children were given much of the same things; but chemistry sets and electronic kits don't exist any more.

      As a child I took toys apart and put them back together, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. I built forts in the neighboring empty lots and fields. I went on all day exploratory bike rides. In junior high and high school I had wood/metal/electronics/print shop classes. As a teenager I learned how to repair my car myself rather than take it to a mechanic.

      I don't think my own children have ever taken anything apart. They never built forts, they never went exploring in the nearby conservation land. Their middle school and high school don't offer any shop classes. Even though I've shown them how, things like checking the oil and changing brake pads is an alien concept.

      The world is a different place. I don't think it bodes well.

    2. Re:Comprehension and hunger to achieve sth by cyber-vandal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why do you type sth when you don't abbreviate anything else? Is that creativity in action? Kids still play with Lego. It's still enormously popular. I have 4 nephews and a niece. The boys all have and love Lego.

  21. Re:Are tech. advances contributing? by supercrisp · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, OK. But keep in mind your bias. Very few homes nation-wide had or could afford personal computers in the 80s. Since then, a number of technologies have proliferated (and become more affordable, to a degree) that encourage interacting with the device/medium in scripted ways: cable television, the internet, computers, computer and console games, cell phones. All these things happened at the same time that obesity began to skyrocket and (according to this article) creativity began to decline. This is also the same time when our schools began to get "back to basics" and cut programs like art, photography, and even recess. Variety is important, and moving from one screen to another doesn't cut it. Still, I'm uncertain about my own claim here, as a great deal of creativity begins at a very young age. I'm also not taking into account that the 80s marked the beginning of greatly increasing hours at work for most adults, and greater competition for jobs, as well as a tendency to spend more and more on consumer goods and service, an increase influenced by more readily available consumer credit. So much less parental involvement is possible. I say that as an often-exhausted parent. I guess, for me, it boils down to a perfect storm of impending idiocracy. I say this as an English teacher. I can see the change in the papers I've collected in the last five and ten years.

  22. Necessity is the mother of invention by Kupfernigk · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It was around 1980 that everything started to "just work". Cars, TV sets and so on became increasingly reliable and standardised. Food came increasingly pre-packed and pre-prepared. People simply do not need to be inventive and curious in order to get things done, in fact, it's often illegal; good luck with modifying a car nowadays. At the very least your insurance will be invalidated. On the rare occasion something goes wrong, scrap and replace or call a specialist.

    I've sometimes thought, looking back at my own career in engineering, that my problem solving ability has got in the way of promotion. It's actually easier and more effective to find someone else to fix the problem, or persuade management that the problem doesn't need fixing (kill the product, for instance). And, if you aren't spending a lot of time on the 98% of perspiration that follows the 2% of inspiration, you have time to play golf with the boss and network your next promotion.

    I think the rot really set in when the word "consumer" became a generic term for everybody. Umberto Eco made this point once, showing how industrial exhibitions had gone from showcasing technology (buy one of these and you can make whatever you can imagine) to showcasing products (buy one of these and your life as a consumer will be better.)

    Schools only reflect society. If teachers are mostly consumers, they won't see the value of (genuine) creativity.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  23. GOML test, really by bytesex · · Score: 2, Funny

    This sounds like a test developed by baby boomers to test baby-boomerishness in people. It's the get-of-my-lawn test.

    --
    Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
  24. Just Think-Of-The-Children(R) by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The controls were put in place mainly to shield the schools from litigation. Schools don't have BP-style resources, so every dollar counts. Let's face it, the average family can't afford to send their kids to school (it's about $10k/student for public, somewhete between $17k-20k for private), so there's not going to be any new influx of cash in schools.

    Some of the controls (I got out of HS in 87) were to prevent vandalism/waste - like making the copier off limits to students, though my best friend in HS and I were the only two, save the principal, who could fix minor problems with it. Much of it stems from very rare, isolated cases of injury/loss/death during school hours while the students were not accounted for. There is no wrath like a parent who has lost a child. When you have to have a perfect safety record with several thousand unpredictable teens 180 days out of the year, things get a little crazy.

    We're not afraid of them, per se, but afraid something will happen to them. A college student gets drunk and falls out of a 4th story window to her death, so the college welds all of the windows shut. An appropriate response? To the parents who no longer have a daughter it would have prevented her death. Won't you think of the children?

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Just Think-Of-The-Children(R) by nschubach · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One could argue that you can't set an age on when a person leaves childhood. Depending on how protective their parents were and how they were raised, children would mentally mature at different points.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
  25. It doesn't have to be just one way... by IANAAC · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Memorization can be a good thing. I think the problem is in the way memorization is taught.

    Knowing - and probably more importantly learning - details is still quite valuable. Just a matter of how it's actually done.

  26. not confused, amused by mevets · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Testing is the snake oil of our times; but a fool and his money...

  27. Actually... No. by denzacar · · Score: 4, Funny

    It is a thinly veiled excuse for furthering the "war on terror".

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  28. 14 hour school days by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

    I had roughly the same schedule, but I didn't bother paying attention or doing my homework so I saved myself several hours a day. I think that was pretty creative thinking on my part.

    Also, back then normal people couldn't afford laptops, so I would work out my BASIC and Pascal programs in a notebook and use the power of my imagination compile them. That's what I did most of the time when I wasn't paying attention.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  29. I looked up "Torrance test" by taskiss · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/search/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED052254&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=ED052254

    The Interpretation of Torrance Creativity Scores.

    This study tests the appropriateness of Torrance's assumptions of trait independence and the combinability of measures (Torrance Tests of Creative Thinking) with respect to the scoring of the tests for a younger population and estimates the homogeneity of the scores. The sample consisted of 128 elementary school children. Results indicate that separate scoring for fluency, flexibility, and originality traits is not warranted, because any special dispositions for these traits that may exist are overwhelmed by the task specificity of the scores. It is suggested that the Torrance scores reveal nothing interesting about the individual, and the report contends that use of more than a single score from the Torrance battery makes little sense. The major question still unanswered is when, if ever, it makes sense to use a score from the Torrance battery.

    --
    - real hackers don't have sigs -
    1. Re:I looked up "Torrance test" by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sorry, but what exactly do most of these careers have to do with being creative? Even the ones that seem to require creativity such as inventors and authors don't have to (think product upgrades, textbooks, etc.). You might as well call it persistance.

      Based on the intelligence and lucidity of the article, I am going to assume that the authors were no dummies. With this kind of writing, one is generally summarizing a larger and more complex tract of text which I am also assuming explained the methodology of the tests and accounted for the vagaries you are complaining about. I may be wrong, but I've read enough white papers now to know how they are usually structured.

      For very interesting definitions of creative. And three times what, exactly? The problem with the entire article is that it doesn't provide numbers. Maybe none of this is even relevant. If IQ scores are rising every decade, then maybe the IQ test isn't very useful and implying your test is three times "better" doesn't say much.

      Cognitive tests of this sort have been subject to massive scrutiny by the sharpest minds in the cognitive fields, and your questions have been asked and answered. Overwhelming consensus seems to have settled on the legitimacy of such tests and the complaints against it which I skimmed through don't seem terribly indicting. As much as I like to question everything, especially orthodox beliefs, this one doesn't seem particularly broken to me.

      I would suggest reviewing the test itself and see what you think afterward, because right now you seem to be criticizing something sight unseen, which is never favorable to forming an informed opinion. If you do find something which seems really dumb, then I'd love to hear about it. But as I've said, for now I'm inclined to accept this one.

      -FL

  30. The War on Drugs? by wytcld · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Pot smoking among school kids went down by the early '80s. I'd cite statistics, but those are all suspect, being produced to support claims for the effectiveness of government programs (in a word, "creative"). Still, there can be no doubt by any serious cultural critic that creativity in Western Civilization peaked in the '60s, along with peak use of creativity-enhancing drugs. Because that creativity was perceived as - and may have been - politically dangerous, it and the drug use which enhances it have been discouraged since.

    --
    "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
  31. Acronym Disease is my suspicion: by aussersterne · · Score: 2, Interesting

    RIAA, MPAA, ASCAP, DMCA, DHS, USCIS, PATRIOT, etc.

    Any time you begin to enter a culture of control and conservatism (not just a machinery of, but a culture of, in which agency, originality, and deviation are considered morally/ethically wrong), you'll find that people begin to frown on creativity. Innovation is nothing more than deviance with a positive outcome. In an value system that places a premium on nondeviance and sees it as a primary measure of status on the one hand, and that normalizes or obscures awareness of the importance of others' deviance/innovation on the other (read: political and market-oriented historical revisionism the change in our understand of knowledge to that of a commodity to be manufactured), there will be no innovation.

    Basically, intellectual property is killing innovation. 9/11 and the war on terror are killing innovation. Big capital is killing innovation.

    Where you have a field of perfectly efficient and predictable consumers, you have zero innovation and creativity quotient. By definition.

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
  32. creativity by zogger · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, there's also the old adage that "necessity is the mother of invention". People were a lot more hands on back then with their day to day..well, stuff, plus a lot of things got repaired, not just thrown away when something trivial broke. This lead to "how do I make this better" type efforts..back to caveman days. As applies to children..they mimic adults, they don't see adults doing this anymore that much, repairing or building anything from scratch, figuring out a new tool or how to do something, so they don't either. How many kids today really watch their dad fixing things, or building anything from scratch? the world went from a lot of generalists who could use any tool thrown at them, plus make new tools, to now you need to be an extreme specialist in just one subject to even think about it. I know when I was a little shitter, I was following pops around as he tore down and rebuilt cars, did his own plumbing and carpentry, rebuilt TVs and radios, etc. So..I started doing similar, all the way to getting into trouble for disassembling the lawnmower, etc, building forts, etc with saws and hammer and nails. Kids today..are they really doing that, or mostly just..dunno..playing video games? Being a tool user means you need to use tools, then getting creative with that.

    And then, where is the dividing line between art and tech/engineering? Hard to define creativity when we have no real distinction. Perhaps creativity is just not being recognized clearly enough today?

    1. Re:creativity by couchslug · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "So..I started doing similar, all the way to getting into trouble for disassembling the lawnmower, etc, building forts, etc with saws and hammer and nails. Kids today..are they really doing that, or mostly just..dunno..playing video games? Being a tool user means you need to use tools, then getting creative with that."

      Their adults don't value those skills, so they raise fewer offspring with general skills. The pursuit of such skills isn't valued, which amuses me when "over-specialized" adults don't know what to do when their Special job goes away!

      "to now you need to be an extreme specialist in just one subject to even think about it."

      Bad popular misconception! Generalists are much better able to learn as they go.

      I trained plenty of avionics weenies, engine mechs, and crew chiefs in my USAF service. The folks who got it quickest were generally farm boys/girls or others who had an old school background. Their parents weren't afraid to put them in a go-cart, on a dirt bike, or helping fix the house or car.

      They learned HOW to learn, and internalized that mechanical and electrical PRINCIPLES apply to everything from a toaster to an F-16.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    2. Re:creativity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While I am sure the necessity argument does hold water, I personally don't think that it is the whole story. I think the GP has a point concerning free time and access to materials.

      [Disclaimer: I am a sculptor, who is also a quality engineer]

      Allow me to share some personal anecdotes. (Yes, I know anecdote is not the singular of data.)

      In the 1990s, access to physical artistry supplies was much greater. I could walk into even a WALMART and get brushes (Of inferior quality, but they STILL had them.), I could get florist's clay, and a very wide assortment of fabrics, fabric and embroidery goodies, and the like.

      Compare that with "Today".

      Yesterday, I went to the store. [since posting as AC, I will admit to this] I recently downloaded a copy of Photomodeler Scanner, which is a photometrology program. Essentially, it lets you create 3d models from sets of stereo photographs. Since I am a sculptor in my free time, this is very appealing to me. [if I like it, I certainly WILL buy it.]

      I hunted for a lazy Susan in the houseware department... 20 minutes later, I found an overpriced "rotating cake icing tray" in the wedding supply department. It's JUST a lazy susan, but now it affords a big pricetag (greater than 20$ for some injection mold plastic). (and makes me look like a poofer when I buy it, by being all florally decorated in the packaging.)

      Item #1 in my "easy stereo photo setup" down, I started looking for medium.

      From past experience, I know that florist clay is a very nice working, and reusable medium. I fully expected this to be expensive; but-- they didn't even have it. Worse, the Walmart associates had never even heard of the stuff.

      Frustrated and angry, I started looking for good alternatives. I spent another 20 minutes looking for generic children's modeling clay. Was it in the same department as the "Children's activities" department, with the sidewalk chalk, the horrible color by numbers, and other children's art project supplies? NO! Was it with the playdough stuff? NO!

      Where was it then? It was sandwiched ungracefully between a pre-fab build a solarsystem kit, and some florist wire, and oven bake sculpey.

      Further, there was only ONE selection choice, and the product was too soft and goopy for serious artistic use. Normally, when confronted with such a problem, I gently press on the front window of the clay box, and see how sticky and squishy the clay is. It needs to be somewhat firm in order to not deform under the influence of gravity. (For those with bad imaginations: When you roll out a log of the stuff, and hold it parallel to the ground in front of you, it should sag only a little, while retaining good plasticity. Otherwise it will require expensive armatures inside the structure to provide rigidity. This is why florist clay is awesome.)

      Long story short, what was supposed to be an in-and-out shopping trip for some medium and a fairly common household item turned into an hour and a half scavenger hunt with disappointing results. To use that stupid clay, I had to blend it 50-50 with bees wax to get sufficient rigidity.

      You guys would be right to point out that the above rant tells more about walmart and its business practices than it does about the decline of availability of art supplies, since I could just as well have gone to J-Micheals, or Hobby Lobby, or any other specialist shop, but that ignores the fact that in the 1990s, those shops were all over town, but now there are maybe 5 (both chains combined) in a reasonably large metro area of over 650k people. (Compare with more than 20 walmarts.) Walmart's competition in the 90s, (when you COULD get florist clay there!) drove the competitors out, then walmart mainstreamed the store and eliminated "poor sellers." (EG, items that they could not sell in huge quantities for massive damage-- er, money.)

      As such, my options when shopping for medium are very limited. Availability is a serious problem.

      Coupled with Economics 101, as supply dwindles, and demand in

    3. Re:creativity by 32771 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The learning curve nowadays is definitely steeper than it used to be. Compare grandma's old tube radio and your DAB receiver. While I agree that studying electrical engineering in the 40's must have helped just as much as nowadays to understand your contemporary radio, the obstacles to understanding the newer version are more plenty fold. Miniaturization is certainly a big issue here and complicated standards the other.

      It appears to me that nowadays you have neither the inclination to do so just for the hell of it, because a herd of engineers can do it much better than you nor the means to do it because you don't have the resources.

      Given that you are traveling along some sort of trajectory through the space of stuff you can learn, the inability to do certain simple things may block further more advanced things you can learn later on, once you have mastered the simpler stuff.

      I do applaud initiatives to enable interested individuals to modify whatever complex parts of the environment there are (there are hobby geneticists (I'll let you fill in the concerns)). Even if it is just a subsystem (i.e. Java programming for Android phones) it opens people a door to catch on and to take part.

      Art is a similar can of worms but compared to engineering there is still only one artist but there is also a gallerist now and a whole machinery that explains art to you.

      Overall I don't think that there should be a way back to the old days, but there should be an awareness of the widening intellectual gap between the individual and whatever system the individual interacts with. I really don't believe in jeopardizing our society by leaving large numbers of people out of the loop on what is going on around them.

      --
      Je me souviens.
  33. troublesome tests by __aapspi39 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    i always found the Flynn effect to be quite interesting - given that it is demonstrates quite clearly that IQ is something that is down to the environment and has little to do with innate or genetically determined factors.

    imho, unless you looking to 'scientifically' justify right-wing or racist ideas then this would be fairly obvious to anyone who's interested.

    i'm naturally rather suspicious of any similar such test for creativity - to try to capture or measure something as nebulous a concept as creativity seems at face value to be troublesome.

    1. Re:troublesome tests by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2, Informative

      Having an environmental element doesn't mean there isn't a genetic element. Nature and nurture are basically coefficients in many things, intelligence included. Height has well known genetic components, but malnutrition can cause someone with genes for being tall to be significantly shorter.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  34. Re:Partially tech, partially price by Fnord666 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You may be partially on to something. Many items are "too cheap to fix" now. If your TV breaks, you don't see which tube blew. If the lawnmower stops running, there's not much that's replaceable (save the entire engine). If your car or washing machine stops running, there's a good chance that fixing it would require diagnostic equipment exceeding the value of the item - you take it to get repaired or you replace it.

    While I agree with your premise, I disagree with your conclusion. While a greater number of components were accessible and could be theoretically fixed by the end user, I suspect that in reality it didn't happen. Your average person didn't open their TV to see what tube burned out. If the washing machine quit working, they didn't go at it with a schematic and a multimeter. They called someone to come fix it. The same thing happens today except that in many cases it's easier/cheaper to replace something rather than fix it.

    --
    'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
  35. Idiocracy by littlewink · · Score: 3, Informative

    I watched the movie Idiocracy last night and got a sense of our culture's non-creative future, 500-some odd years removed.

    In one scene the time clock spins forward over centuries, pausing intermittently only to capture a single image of a restaurant storefront in evolution: "FuddRuckers" devolves to "RuddPuckers", "PudSuckers", etc. (or some such). When the clock stops the culture has christened the restaurant "ButtFuckers".

    Apparently the references to FuddRuckers, Costco, Starbucks et al caused Fox to bury the film, which portrays a future where creativity and intelligence have largely disappeared.

  36. Lacking, or just changing? by cshbell · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm speaking purely for the United States here. The first thing that came to mind was this great scene from the movie Apollo 13 where engineers are told they have to fit a square filter in a round hole using only the elements on the table. First reaction? They dive right in.

    So to use this as an example, it sometimes feels like we've lost the raw brilliance and creativity that allowed us to put human beings on the moon. And we did it years before the development of advanced composites, sophisticated integrated circuits, and computer modeling. The moon missions were calculated with slide rules; even the astronauts had to be skilled mathematicians.

    In that sense, it feels like our creativity is on the wane. On the other hand, perhaps it's just changing form.

    True, we haven't put anybody on the moon in a while, but we've instead built a giant worldwide interconnected computer network. We've built a search engine that aggregates and indexes it all. We've built touchscreen devices that can make phone calls, access websites, pinpoint your location to within 30 feet using satellites hundreds of miles in the sky, and put it all into a tiny package that slips into your pocket and runs all day on a battery charge.

    That's pretty creative, and it's showing no signs of slowing down. So I don't necessarily know that we're less creative today; I see the emotional and anecdotal evidence for it, but the contrary evidence suggests that we're still exceptionally creative and eclectic with our skills.

  37. Necessity by Culture20 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Necessity is the mother of invention, sufficiency is her lazy childless brother, and opulance is the serial killer who lives next door.

  38. Creativity is disappearing for many reasons by jonwil · · Score: 2, Interesting

    1.Kids arent being allowed to be kids anymore. When I was a kid in primary school, I used to take my 2 bucks pocket money on a Saturday morning and go tearing out of the house, down the street and across the local oval to the local shop to spend the 2 bucks on assorted lollies, most likely shouting who knows what at the top of my lungs at the same time.

    Kids need to be kids, they need to be allowed to go outside and play, to kick a footy (Aussie Rules football) or a soccer ball with their mates, to get out in the fresh air.

    2.TV, kids are watching more of it than ever (and what they DO watch gets worse and worse, a lot of what passes for kids TV these days is pathetic compared to what was on when I was a kid)

    3.Lack of creative toys. These days parents are more likely to buy their kids a Nintendo Wii instead of toys that encourage creativity and imagination. Instead of playing with a GI-JOE action figure or a pack of army soldiers making "Pew Pew" noises, kids are playing video games where the "Pew Pew" noise is created by some guy in a sound studio.

    4.The ever increasing pressure on schools to "perform" (and to "perform better" than the school one suburb over). This leads to pressure on politicians to institute measuring systems (usually in the form of standardized tests) so that they can see which schools are doing well and which schools arent. Then, the school principals (fearful that bad scores will negatively impact the schools funding) force teachers to "teach to the test" so that schools can get higher scores (and keep their funding). Courses and lessons like music, art, dance and drama are being removed from schools as they continue to focus more on academic performance and (for those kids who show talent) performance on the football pitch or the basketball court or whatever.

  39. Not just complexity: DRM by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...now you need to be an extreme specialist in just one subject to even think about it.

    It's not just the complexity of modern devices though - it is also that manufacturers now go out of their way to prevent people fix, modifying, learning etc. from things they make in order to prevent you from either improving on it or doing things with it that they do not want you to. When manufacturers actively stop you from 'playing' with their devices the result is not only that it is harder to "fix" it but you also risk breaking the device....and generally those with the free time (students etc.) don't have the money to be able to afford breaking expensive equipment. Hence rather than innovate creatively they just use the device as told.

    Of course the above only applies to electronic devices but, as the newest and most capable tools we have these are the ones most likely to motivate creative and intelligent people to play with them because they can, in general, do so much more with them.

  40. Re:Are tech. advances contributing? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Replying to myself is bad form, but just to add:

    This transition isn't limited to computing. Every aspect of technology has improved in a similar way. How many people drove cars in the first half of the last century, but couldn't rebuild an internal combustion engine? How many now? Back when cars were new, if you couldn't function as a mechanic, you had a problem. Now, breakdowns are so rare that it's not essential knowledge.

    When I was growing up, my father had similar complaints about radio. He'd been a radio amateur when he was a child, but now radios are commodity devices and no one builds receivers themselves, so building transmitters doesn't follow. For me, the personal computer revolution was a substitute.

    There's been something similar for every generation since the industrial revolution - a technology that is starting to make an impact on consumer technology, which still requires a lot of understanding to use when you're a child and which becomes ubiquitous by the time you are an adult. I've no idea what this is for the current generation - I can't think of anything. I suspect some form of biotech will be for the next generation.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  41. It's the damn Ritalin by Theovon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It used to be that people had to LEARN DISCIPLINE so that they could pay attention in school and learn. Meanwhile, the randomness of the thoughths they had to learn to keep under control was funneled into directed creativity.

    These days, every kid is labeled with ADHD and given drugs that suppress random thoughts. Oh, sure they SEEM a little more disciplined, but we're chemically robbing them of creativity.

    (I'm not saying that ADD doesn't exist. I know, because I have it. Indeed, I rely on it to help me come up with interesting random ideas. And it was indeed a long, challenging journey to learn to focus. I also realize that some people have it SO BAD that giving them some chemical help makes sense. But MOST kids in school labeled with ADHD just have discipline problems. But let's not leave it there, because often the discipline problems aren't their fault. Their diets are absolute shit. If parents would feed their kids properly, we wouldn't have half so much trouble.)

  42. Ritalin use by AugstWest · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's pretty much when Ritalin use in "rambunctious" children began to skyrocket.

    As an adult with ADD, I can tell you for certain that Ritalin squelches creativity. I am a musician, and when I'm steadily taking the pills I always see a marked decline in my songwriting and recording.

    It's often the more creative kids that get diagnosed as ADD as well.

    Vicious cycle, America. Learn to teach creative, energetic kids, and we'll stay on top. Start turning them into rank-and-file automatons and this is what you get.

    1. Re:Ritalin use by Securityemo · · Score: 2, Informative

      As an adult with ADD, my experience is the direct opposite: when off the meds, my head is full of random, repetitive thoughts (niggercod, niggercod, niggercod, niggercod, GAAAAAH! o_O). When on the meds, I can actually *think clearly*, and it's much easier to take in information. Being the mental equivalent of a blithering, tentacled chaos-spawn isn't really conductive to actually doing or really thinking anything at all.

      --
      Emotions! In your brain!
  43. Crisis! by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A crisis! Quick! Throw $500 billion at it! There! Done!

  44. Can't let them out of the house! by Alan+R+Light · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Don't you know that there are predators waiting on every corner? According to the NCMEC, 1,500,000 children go missing each year!!! (if you count 17 year olds who run away from home multiple times for each escape attempt - an average of 115 if you only count "typical" kidnappings).

    But seriously, I recently traveled through South America, and the kids there are like actual human beings. With a little capital and rule of law, they'll go far.

    As for North American kids: two words - "opportunity costs".

  45. My daughter, for one... by Pezbian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "How many kids today really watch their dad fixing things, or building anything from scratch?"

    My daughter, for one. And she's only three years old. I hope she will grow up to be as bummed about Chinese "epoxy blob" Electronics as I was when I was a kid. I had to start dumpster diving for broken stereo receivers to get anything worth taking apart when toys turned out to be so pointless.

    I'm saving a working Robosapien for her. Those are very hackable.

    I've had to change a lot about the work I do in order to make it kid-safe. For instance, I can't have high voltage power supplies (backlight inverters) open with her around and switching entirely from Tin/Lead solder to Lead Free was a bitch. But it still means I can have her watching what I do and maybe even helping sooner in life than I.

    I learned to solder when I was eight. She'll probably learn long before that.

    She has been watching me build a render farm from trash computers over the past nine months and turn broken LCD and plasma TVs into working sets for over a year now. During the past six months, she has taken a genuine interest in the work. She will watch me work for far longer stretches than she'll watch Dora or Diego.

    That makes me proud and gives me hope that our world isn't heading toward Idiocracy standards after all.

    --
    In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
  46. Learning to Think Korean, b by kale77in · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Then 'Learning to Think Korean' by Kohls will freak you out.

    http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Think-Korean-Working-Interact/dp/1877864870

    It starts with ten or so business scenarios which will make no sense whatsoever to you, then explains why. There are reasons, you're just not attuned to them.

    This is cool too...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKtSHKWkrXs

  47. No, I don't think the parent missed it at all by sean.peters · · Score: 2, Informative

    Look, I agree that we've kind of gone overboard with kid's safety. Kids should be able to just run around outside without parents freaking out about it. But geez, complaining about wearing helmets on bikes? Sure, lots of kids survived childhood just fine without them. But some didn't.

    Come on, people. Making kids wear appropriate protective gear is not exactly child abuse. It's not that expensive, pretty comfortable, and it saves lives. Spare me the tales of woe that you're not able to let your kids jump their bikes, helmetless, off 15 foot high ramps without cries of child endangerment. Because that's what it is.