Dell Drops Ubuntu PCs From Its Website

Barence writes "Dell has stopped selling consumer PCs preloaded with Ubuntu from its website, and doesn't know when they're coming back. A search for Ubuntu on the Dell UK website returns only one laptop — the Dell Latitude 2100 from the company's business range. Dell insists that it's continuing to sell Ubuntu systems, but only over the phone, and has no idea when — or even if — the Ubuntu PCs will return online. 'We've recently made an effort to simplify our offerings online, by focusing on our most popular bundles and configuration options, based on customer feedback for reduced complexity and a simple, easy purchase experience,' Dell told PC Pro. 'We're also making some changes to our Ubuntu pages, and as a result, they are currently available through our phone-based sales only.' The move comes after Dell put a page on its website advising customers only to go for Ubuntu if they were interested in open-source programming."

Comments

it doesn't make any sense because

[BroadbandBradley]

Microsoft Windows is really so much harder to use than Ubuntu. Everything on Ubuntu just works, and you have to fuss with windows to get it to do what you want, keep it from getting a virus, hunt all over the web to get software updates.....

I think the only reason Dell does this is because Windows is setup like a toll booth where you have to pay extra to get it to do anything useful or keep it running. With the Ubuntu Boxes they don't sell any add-on software because Ubuntu already has everything it needs to work.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the only reason Dell ...

Don't forget that computer retailers like Dell get paid a lot of money to pre-install bloatware, e.g. all those trials, links to subscription services, etc. Even if the customer never buys any of these, Dell doesn't get that money for Ubuntu PCs.

Wouldn't be surprised if MS made an offer to "more prominently" position Windows or grant Dell some "MS premium platinum reseller" PR-badge either.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[loafing_oaf]

Dell could simply adjust the Ubuntu PC prices to compensate for the missing bloatware revenue. Of course, they probably would sell even fewer that way. But with Dell's just-in-time supply chain, it really shouldn't matter whether any particular models sell well because there's no inventory buildup or waste to worry about.

As for Dell's claim of reducing complexity... it's a single link on the side of the page! At the risk of sounding cliche, I think it's more reasonable to assume that there is some supplier exclusivity contract in play from Microsoft.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[couchslug]

Windows works for people who know Windows and have no need to invest time in anything different. The faults we find in Windows don't concern them enough to switch to something not Windows.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you seriously think people don't do that?

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[IANAAC]

Mention to my Dad, or many of my less tech-savy friends the concept of 'sudo' and they'll just glaze over.

"Run As Administrator".

But his eyes would probably still glass over at that too.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[GameboyRMH]

I think that's what they do, when i bought my sister's Inspiron 10v with Ubuntu last year, the price was only about $20 less for the Ubuntu model IIRC. Mind you the factory-supplied Ubuntu installs are still stuffed to the gills with crapware, i just wiped it and reinstalled from scratch since it needed upgrading anyways.

And I remember clicking on a link about how to choose your OS and reading that you should "choose Windows because $typical_marketing_spiel, or Ubuntu if you're into open-source programming." |:-|

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[__aaqvdr516]

In the words of Wolfgang Pauli, "you're not even wrong." However, if you wanted to stay open source on Windows, you can do so. The notion that Windows is a toll booth is a bit off the mark also. Right now I'm dual booting Ubuntu and Vista. The only thing I've paid for in the last two years between Windows and Ubuntu is the OS itself. Everything else is open source or provided free of charge by Microsoft or another third party.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[jo42]

Microsoft Windows is a conspiracy between the hardware manufacturers and Microsoft to make you have to buy new hardware every couple of years. Best example was going from XP to Vista. XP ran fine. Vista came out and ran like a one legged man in a marathon. Everyone had to buy new hardware to run it.

Think about it: Do you really need a quad-core processor with 8GB of RAM and a 1.5 TB hard drive to browse the Internet, watch IdiotTube (AKA YouTube) videos and fap to porn?

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[whisper_jeff]

Microsoft Windows is really so much harder to use than Ubuntu.

I don't know how this got modded insightful but, as someone who has computers with Mac OSX, Windows XP, _and_ Ubuntu, I'm going to have to say that's so utterly wrong that it's actually funny. I like Ubuntu and I look forward to the day that it truly hits the mainstream but it is not, in any way, easier to use than Windows. It may be the easiest of the Linux distros to use (I have no clue if it is since it's the only one I've ever played with to any degree); it may be easy enough for the average person to use; it may be incredibly easy for a hardcore computer user to use, but it is not easier to use than Windows.

I don't like Windows, at all, but let's be serious...

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[Devout_IPUite]

Pretty much. The linux devs don't realize that they're making cludget unfriendly processes. Number of clicks matter. If I can't, without a manual, install program X onto my computer in 3-6 clicks, it's too hard. "Oh just use the package manager" No. I want to go to their website and click the fucking download button. Then I want to open that downloaded file. Then I want it to install. Anything else is unacceptable for a typical user.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[whisper_jeff]

To me, what immediately put it as "not easy to use" was the moment that I realized I needed things like "sudo" or any other commands to make things happen. Once Canonical realizes that the average user _NEVER_ wants to enter commands to do run of the mill, average stuff, then they'll truly be a long way towards having an easy-to-use OS. I found myself trying to get things to happen with Ubuntu, being forced to resort to Google (a sign things may not be rosy but not surprising since I had zero Linux experience until I installed Ubuntu on my Wind), and found that the way to make "this" happen was not selecting a control panel but to open a Terminal session and entering a complex command that I would never, ever remember.

Average users don't want to ever, ever, ever use Terminal. _NEVER_

Power users, who truly push machines beyond what is considered "normal" use, are fine with using Terminal because it doesn't scare them but the average computer user, today, does not want to open Terminal and enter any command.

Once that's sorted out, then Ubuntu (or whatever Linux distro figures it out) will be a long ways towards being easy to use.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[maxwell demon]

"Give the computer special permission to do certain potentially dangerous things." Doesn't sound very complicated to me.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[RobertM1968]

From what I understand, Microsoft also offers "rebates" to hardware computer vendors that are primarily or entirely Windows only. It's the loophole in their consent decree (rebates instead of discounts).

It is conceivable that the public exposure Dell's Ubuntu pages made caused one of two scenarios (or a combination of both):
(1) Someone at Microsoft pointed out to Dell that their Ubuntu efforts (especially with Linux becoming more widely known) was flying in the face of Microsoft's rebate terms.
(2) Someone at Dell feared that the news exposure their Ubuntu offerings were gaining would cause backlash with Microsoft, and thus minimize or eliminate what "rebates" they were getting on Windows preloaded systems.

More information (with appropriate login) can be found on Microsoft's pages located here: Microsoft OEM pages where such wording as "This campaign is designed to help you communicate the value of Windows 7 Professional ... OEM Software Rebates Accelerate your OEM Sales and earn rebates!" (direct and full quote (from the rotating text at the top), including the use of ellipses) can be found.

"Help you communicate," has been determined by others to mean "Dont offer competing operating systems such as Linux so you dont "confuse" buyers with any option other than Windows" - such statements (and such a definition of the meaning) can be found by searching the web - often attributed to Microsoft themselves. Makes Dell's statement kinda suspicious in who actually came up with it.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[whisper_jeff]

Perhaps you missed my point. You have no problem with it. I have no problem with it. You and I are not "average" computer users. Ask yourself if it would be overwhelming for your mother to use it. Ask yourself if the counter clerk at the DMV or the bank would find it easy to use. Ask yourself if a truly average user finds what you've described to be easy.

What power users find easy and what average users find easy are different things. This perception difference is what has holds Linux back, more than anything else.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[Kijori]

Microsoft Windows is really so much harder to use than Ubuntu. Everything on Ubuntu just works, and you have to fuss with windows to get it to do what you want, keep it from getting a virus, hunt all over the web to get software updates.....

I think the only reason Dell does this is because Windows is setup like a toll booth where you have to pay extra to get it to do anything useful or keep it running. With the Ubuntu Boxes they don't sell any add-on software because Ubuntu already has everything it needs to work.

I've been using Ubuntu since 2006 and this claim is, frankly, laughable. Go to the shop and buy some shrinkwrap software - chances are it won't work on Ubuntu. Now buy yourself a new webcam, printer and scanner; unless you checked beforehand at least one of these is likely not to work, and it's unlikely that any of them will work perfectly. These issues might seem trivial to someone who's used Ubuntu for a long time and either knows what works or at least knows to check, but for a new user it's a big deal.

Second, Ubuntu users are generally assumed to be computer-literate and to have deliberately chosen Ubuntu, which implies that they know the ins and outs of Linux distributions and technologies. This leads to help files that are unintelligible to anyone who doesn't know a thing about Linux - amarok is "a qt media player based on the KDE 4 technology platform", for example, and if you want to install a new chess program you can choose between "X11" and "Gnome" versions. (What does that even mean?). Similarly, help files and forums have people running shell commands and editing configuration files - that's just voodoo to a totally new computer user, and if nothing else ingraining a "just run whatever the forum tells you as administrator" mindset is not good.

Contrast this with Windows: if you go to the shop and buy new software or hardware it's almost certain to run on your computer with nothing more than a few clicks to install it. And if you run into problems the instructions and help files assume no computer literacy - and every man and his dog knows how to use Windows, so there's no shortage of people to help you.

I like Ubuntu; I use it every day and have done for four years. But denying its faults - and it has plenty - is enormously counterproductive. For you, Ubuntu's lack of available software has turned into "[w]ith the Ubuntu Boxes they don't sell any add-on software because Ubuntu already has everything it needs to work"; for one of the replying ACs the lack of hardware support has become "[t]he 'my wi-fi doesn't work under linux crowd' just need to be more careful and not buy shitty wi-fi cards". These are legitimate problems, and denying them can only set Ubuntu development back and alienate people who have tried the OS and had problems.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[Kijori]

As for Dell's claim of reducing complexity... it's a single link on the side of the page! At the risk of sounding cliche, I think it's more reasonable to assume that there is some supplier exclusivity contract in play from Microsoft.

I'm not so sure. It would take very few people ordering Ubuntu because they hadn't understood the difference for the support costs to outweigh the extra sales; this would explain their move to sell Ubuntu only over then phone, since it allows people to buy Ubuntu PCs if they really want to while preventing any possible misunderstandings.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[Lennie]

Do you really think sudo is ever mentioned in the user-interface ? It maybe what is going on in the back, but in the user-interface it just says: enter your password to perform administrative tasks

Which works just fine, thank you.

Also I don't know why you are complaining, because Windows Vista, Mac OS X have something similair.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[Charliemopps]

My guess is people were choosing Ubuntu without realizing what it was, getting home and fining out they could install anything or transfer their old software to it... then calling up Dell and complaining. Windows makes Dell money while Ubuntu was probably generating a lot of customer service calls. I doubt their support staff even knew how to trouble shoot it.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[Draek]

Try doing tech support sometimes. Your view of Windows is tainted by your own proficiency with it but I assure you: the average person cannot use Windows, and no, you can't be said to know how to use Windows with a malware-filled machine any more than somebody whose car is full of bumps and signs of crashes can be said to know how to drive.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps the problem is that there is a LOT of hardware out there to test, and Microsoft simply does a better job with hardware compatibility.

You make it sound like Microsoft writes all the drivers themselves.

Hardware vendors just don't write Linux drivers for a number of reasons. The perceived market is small. Binary drivers are shunned and require continued maintenance do to the rapid development kernels and distributions. If they go the open road they may need to worry about patents agreements, NDA agreements, etc they made with third parties. They also need for their source to be approved by the kernel gods which is a higher entry bar than getting a binary driver signed by Microsoft.

What the kernel needs is a stable (for a relatively long time--measured in years) way for driver modules to link with the kernel instead of every driver needing to be compiled for that specific kernel. Yes I know that will cause the sky to fall because hardware companies will be able to push out binary drivers.

If its such a terrible thing to have binary only drivers, then find a way to make Adobe flash not work too. Find a way to make Opera not work. Find a way to make Wine not work (It practically ONLY exists to run binary only software). Get rid of those VMs if they are able to run Windows. So on and so on.

It really is amazing how much binary only software people run on Linux but as long as its not a driver it's perfectly ok.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[irid77]

Perhaps you missed my point. You have no problem with it. I have no problem with it. You and I are not "average" computer users. Ask yourself if it would be overwhelming for your mother to use it. Ask yourself if the counter clerk at the DMV or the bank would find it easy to use. Ask yourself if a truly average user finds what you've described to be easy.

What power users find easy and what average users find easy are different things. This perception difference is what has holds Linux back, more than anything else.

Here's the problem with your argument: the people you're describing are horribly confused using Windows too. All they can really do effectively is open programs and use them, and maybe hunt around in folders for files to open. They wouldn't be able so set up a machine with Windows or Ubuntu, but they can use both just fine. Seriously, what about the Windows UI makes intuitive sense and is missing in Ubuntu? What is hard to accomplish in Ubuntu that is easy in Windows?

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[Risen888]

I sell machines with Ubuntu on them. To yoga instructors and flight attendants and 85 year old women. It's easier. Universally, across the board easier. Every single customer says so. You don't have to trust me, but I trust them, because they pay my rent. I mean, if you're comfortable being out-geeked by an 85 year old great grandma, okay, but don't blame the machine.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[RedHat Rocky]

My mother and father have both been using Ubuntu (on a Dell purchased WITH it) for a couple of years now.

Other than occasional Flash issues, they get around just fine.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[cyberthanasis12]

You do not give a reason why Windoze is easier. I will give you one why Linux is easier. My 8 years old son, has installed SuSE 11.3 in 3 computers today. Complete with all the applications. And connected to the internet. And 2 of the computers are laptops. In half an hour (for each computer). So, please. At least in slashdot, people have a clue.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[LingNoi]

Here's how my comparison stacks up, personally. (I consider anything that requires the console to fix in Linux but not Windows permanently broken for the average user):

You have to use the console on OSX to do stuff too and nobody complains. Showing hidden ".dot" files, get the javascript debugging console in safari, etc you need to drop to the terminal.

I doubt it's an average user problem and just your personal problem.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[cronius]

The other weekend I was staying at a hotel on work related business. When I was checking out the hotel guy asked me what kind of work I did and I said I was a computer programmer. He started asking me about a windows server problem they were having, and I said I only know Linux and that the company I work for specializes in it.

At this point he told me that he had just switched permanently to Ubuntu, and that he was really enjoying the experience. He made the switch after his pirated copy of Windows stopped functioning due to an "anti-piracy" update. It was the final straw he said, because he was sick of all the troubles with Windows and sick of things not working (granted it was his own fault that he used a pirated copy of Windows, but honestly how many home users actually use a legal copy of Windows that didn't come preloaded with their computer?).

We had a long talk and it was really encouraging to hear how this Windows user had taken the step on his own to switch to Linux. He said the last time he tried out Linux he was forced to mess around with the command line and was positively surprised that he didn't need to touch the command line with Ubuntu, everything was either GUI-based or Just Worked. The only thing lacking was proper support for games, but he said he just used the x-box or playstation for gaming anyway, so it wasn't really a concern for him. In other words, he was happy with the transition.

Success stories like that makes me think Canonical has done a lot of things right, and are bringing Linux ever so closer to the final frontier: The average Joe. It's a confirmation that Linux is on the right track. And I find that very exciting.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[GameboyRMH]

I went with Dell for my sister's laptop because they had the cute little netbook she wanted and it was cheap. I was aware of the Linux-only laptop resellers but the Inspiron 10v looked like a damn good deal and my sister was in love with it so I didn't shop around.

More recently I was looking to get a new laptop for myself and I did check LinuxCertified, EmperorLinux, and every other Linux laptop seller I could find (including Dell, who had only 1 model with Ubuntu at the time), and found a common pattern - I would be paying out the ass if I bought from them.

I ended up paying the Microsoft tax on my laptop because I would have had to pay $200-$500 more to get a similar laptop from one of the Linux boutiques, and when you're shopping on a $600 budget that's a lot of money.

Re:it doesn't make any sense because

[TheABomb]

Bullshit. Have you bought a new computer with Windows pre-installed in the last decade? You don't get an actual Windows disc, you get a "system restore disc" that wipes everything to the factory-default state. All they have to do is offer to sell those "very few" upset consumers one of those for whatever the price differential was, and suddenly Dell gets its bloatware commissions, too. Win-win for everyone except technology!

Recently been searching for a new job

[SmallFurryCreature]

I have been on a recent job hunt. Granted, as a LAMP developer. At each interview I asked, is it possible to use a non-windows desktop. Answer: Yes. Mac or Ubuntu didn't matter as long as you could do your job.

These weren't small companies either although they weren't the type to run IE6 either.

There is a slow but steady march towards opensource and for the really old, it is the same march that made Microsoft a household name.

There was a time when if you asked for a DOS machine at work, you would have had to be working in the technological vanguard to get it. Because HERE we use mainframes kid, not this new fangled dos/windows 1.0 stuff. that is kid stuff, for hobbyists.

Dell? Missing the boat. But then, they are being surpassed on every front. I can understand why Dell doesn't want to do Ubuntu, they aren't about giving away free customizations. Sure your dell laptop can be pink, that will be 50 euro's thank you very much. All for a different colored piece of plastic. But when you are at the absolute bottom price wise your are just asking to be picked off by the next guy who can go even cheaper.

I predict that before to long, there will be a chinese company, currently supplying the big names in the west, who starts selling direct. And then Dell will be left with overpriced hardware that doesn't offer anything different.

Re:Recently been searching for a new job

[IANAAC]

That is why I did not get the job. I am not running Mac, Windows or Ubuntu. I run a different version of Linux.

And you couldn't get Ubuntu to do/act/feel just like your chosen version of Linux?

I wouldn't hire you either.

Re:Recently been searching for a new job

[AnonymousClown]

I keep trying to make my Fedora 12 look and act like Windows 7 - I get beaten up a lot at the local LUG meetings.

Re:Recently been searching for a new job

[Risen888]

Ubuntu is pretty restrictive in some things. Try running KDE in Ubuntu. You can't (you can install the libraries and get the apps running though), that's why there's Kubuntu.

You're retarded.

Re:Recently been searching for a new job

[billcopc]

Excluding CPU and Ram variations, Dell offers what, a dozen desktop platform and a half-dozen notebooks ? Each one of those sells several million units. Don't you think it would be rather trivial to book ONE GUY (of the 65000 or so people they employ) to do Linux testing on each distinct model ? Hell I could probably do it all in a week or two.

Dell's treatment of Linux overall has been a joke. I've never seen any decent SKU offered with Linux, only the most craptacular bargain-barrel ones like these "laptops" with a single-core AMD processor. What if I want the i7 with 8gb of Ram ? The damned hardware is already expensive enough as it is, I don't need to blow an extra $200 on Windows 7 Ultimate just because Dell thinks I'm a sucker. If they must pigeonhole software with hardware, at least put Ubuntu on the shit ones, and Gentoo on the big ones :) Or better yet: give me a blank hard drive. Naked, empty, unviolated. The first thing most geeks do anyway is wipe the disk and install a clean OS without crapware.

Re:Follow the money

[moreati]

Much as I'd like to agree with you. Evidence?

Sounds like Asus

[SpzToid]

At a major Taiwanese PC tradeshow, the CEO of ASUS abruptly canceled his presentation about new Asus products. Asus immediately began towing the line regarding Microsoft products and co-promotion following that. Dell's recent promoting cohabitation with Ubuntu sounds like exactly the same thing.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_strikes_back_at_linux_netbook_push

Re:Sounds like Asus

[pangu]

Ahhh yes, the ol' Intercontinental Ballistic Chair.

Sucky computer selection when they were available

[happymellon]

I would like to say that I appreciated at least the attempt, but when I went to replace my laptop earlier this year there wasn't a single Ubuntu laptop that didn't suck. They just picked out the bottom spec couple of PC's and stuck it on them, I would be not surprised if they come back saying that there was lack of interest because they didn't have a computer worth buying.

The spokesman went on to deny...

[Chris Mattern]

...that Microsoft had told them that if they continued to market Linux PCs, they would, quote, "rip them a new one", unquote.

Re:The spokesman went on to deny...

[markdavis]

And almost EVERY page on Dells site says "Windows® . Life without WallsTM . Dell recommends Windows 7." Even on the Linux related page I was trying to read, a damn Javascript popup appeared that said that "Dell recommends IE8".

Even when I clicked on a Linux Mini 10, it immediately placed the "Dell recommends Windows 7." on every single following screen (not to mention that the price for the Linux version was exactly the same as the MS-Windows model, and with nothing else included".

Nothing like feeling welcome.

Yet Another Misleading /. Article

[Nutria]

http://www.dell.com/ubuntu is still functional in the US.

Re:Yet Another Misleading /. Article

[Nimey]

For now.

They don't offer any with 10.04, and two of the four models they offer still have 9.04. Doesn't seem like they're too keen on it.

But can you buy a Dell without an operating system

[Palestrina]

That is what I really want. I can buy a Dell without a monitor, so why not without an operating system?

I have my own monitor already, and my own OS. It doesn't make sense to force me to by either of them.

Re:Not a big deal

[markdavis]

Think about what you just wrote. So you think it is just about time installing Linux? No.

* For one thing, some of us don't want to pay a Microsoft Tax. If I don't plan on using MS-Windows on a computer, I should not be forced to pay for it.

* If a computer is available with Linux, it implies at least SOME amount of Linux support- even if it is just a compatibility guide.

* I wouldn't want to use Ubuntu, anyway, since there are (for me) much better Linuxes. So if they offered a computer with NO OS installed, I would be just has happy.

You can bet that Microsoft is behind the scenes again, pulling strings at Dell to squash any notion of freedom or choice.

simplify?

[SuperBanana]

'We've recently made an effort to simplify our offerings online, by focusing on our most popular bundles and configuration options, based on customer feedback for reduced complexity and a simple, easy purchase experience,'

Funny. I still see different websites based on whether I select "home", "small and medium business" (I love that- who says "I work for a medium-sized ____ company"?), or "large enterprise" or "public sector" (of which there are SIX subcategories!)

There are 11 laptops in the "home" section. There are 10 Lattitude "E" series laptops and 8 more in the "Specialty" section for enterprise users. 2 "precision" workstation laptops offered to higher education.

Hang on, I'll just quote from the side of the product selector when I selected "higher education":

Narrow Your Selection
Product Category
Latitude Laptops (18)
Inspiron (4)
Dell Precision Mobile Workstations (2)
Studio Laptops (2)
Vostro Laptops (7)

33 different laptops, ladies and gentlemen. 33.

How many does Apple sell? 3 Macbook Pros, 1 Macbook, 1 Macbook Air? Granted they come in a few flavors (different screen resolutions, for example)...but the basic laptop chassis itself is the same and a 15" macbook pro has always been a 15" macbook pro. Not a Macbook Pro 2310 and then a Macbook Pro 2340 etc.

Dell is like GM; you can buy the same car with 4 different hood emblems and slightly different trim/headlights/taillights.

And people wonder why Apple is raking in money hand over fist. Perhaps it's because they have a clear product lineup? Sometimes you have to stop trying to sell to every person on the planet.

no 64-bit ubuntu laptops?

[Big Jojo]

I wanted a 64-bit ubuntu laptop from dell but they were pushing 32-bit single cores. So I got a non-ubuntu laptop and just installed ubuntu myself. Some issues with wireless rmain ... even though this model was documented on the ubuntu website as fully supported.

Re:Sales

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably not that many:
because they won't let people buy them

if they refuse to sell them then their sales figures will be low.

A cryin shame.

[Anonymous Coward]

A lose-lose situation. At least it reduces (however marginally) the Dell proprietary hardware in circulation...

No Dell, Oh well...

[Anonymous Coward]

buy from someone else

http://system76.com/
http://zareason.com/

Dell's Attitude

[ncmathsadist]

I don't know why Dell thinks I am a second-class citizen because I use open-source programs. Boo and hiss.

Re:But can you buy a Dell without an operating sys

[Anonymous Coward]

You can. Just tell them that you'd like it without an OS, reduced my current latitude's price by €90 or so

I tried to buy one yesterday

[dominux]

I blogged about it here: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2010/07/23/why-windows-still-has-good-sales-figures/

16:27:12        Alan    Initial Question/Comment: I can't find your laptops with Ubuntu installed
16:27:23        System    You are now being connected to an agent. Thank you for using Dell Chat
16:27:23        System    Connected with Makrand_Karante
16:27:23        Makrand_Karante    Thank you for contacting Dell sales chat. This is Makrand Karante,your Sales Advisor. In order to Help you better can you provide me with your email address and Telephone number incase we get Disconnected I can either come back to you by phone or email.
16:27:39        Alan    hello
16:27:50        Alan    I am looking for laptops running Ubuntu
16:27:53        Makrand_Karante    Hi Alan
16:28:03        Makrand_Karante    we do not have that option available yet
16:28:15        Alan    oh :-(
16:28:32        Alan    when will they be available, I don't want Windows at all
16:28:53        Makrand_Karante    we do not have the related information here
16:29:36        Alan    that is a bit of a shame, I will have to go somewhere else to get a laptop then
16:29:53        Makrand_Karante    is there any thing else that I may assist you with today?
16:30:07        Alan    well not really. I just wanted a laptop running Ubuntu.
16:30:19        Alan    Do you have any without an operating system at all?
16:30:28        Makrand_Karante    I am afraid no
16:30:36        Alan    oh
16:31:23        Alan    so if I want a laptop from Dell I have to buy windows
16:31:58        Makrand_Karante    Yes
16:32:12        Alan    ok, thanks for your help
16:32:29        Makrand_Karante    Thank you for contacting Dell Sales Chat and allowing me the opportunity to assist you. Have a wonderful Day ahead.
16:33:25        System    The session has ended!

Couple of updates. I am in the UK, so that was through the dell.co.uk site, I don't want one from the US because it would have the wrong keyboard and I would be stung with customs charges and it would take a long time to get here and I like instant overnight consumer gratification.

If you are tempted to go ask similar questions of the Dell online chat thing then go right ahead with the following conditions:
1) You must take a credit card out of your purse/wallet, rest it on your keyboard and be totally prepared to use it, if they find you a suitable laptop.
2) Do it once, don't repeatedly bother them.
3) Be polite and respectful, the Code of Conduct applies.

Re:I tried to buy one yesterday

[TheSpoom]

I guarantee you that the information won't make its way back to Dell, because I can also guarantee you that the online chat service is 100% outsourced. The flow of information in those arrangements is often mostly one way.

Dell testing the waters ?

[viralMeme]

I'm curious, is there a precedent for a third company pressuring Dell to drop Linux, under threat of retaliation?

"We should whack them, we should make sure they understand our value .. I want them to understand that every day they lead with Linux over Windows in Unix migrations they turn our field against them (take the southeast region mail thread as an example). I want them to think very very carefully about when and which forums they decide to push Linux very, very hard. Today, they do not. When they do, you can bet, behavior will evolve"

"HP discontinued its Linux SKUs beginning on November 18th. This is based on joint marketing effort that spans six months to promote low cost Windows SKU's with $30 extra channel incentives that focus on white box resellers"

It'll be interesting watching the MicroAstroturfers try and put a positive spin on the above statements.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1872/dellbeforeafter.png

They never really wanted it to work

[loufoque]

When it was announced that Dell was selling computers loaded with Ubuntu, I went to their site and looked. I looked hard, and didn't see anything. Then on another site I found a link to an obscure page on the Dell website that you wouldn't find in any other way.
And there, I saw that they were selling old models of their products, with only the low-end hardware choices, for a more expensive price than what they sell the new model with high-end choices and Windows. To the point where even a person who would want to buy a Dell computer and install Ubuntu on it would buy one preloaded with Windows and install Ubuntu himself.

And now they're going to say they're pulling it because it didn't sell enough. Of course it didn't, they purposely made it that way; it's like they wanted it to fail from the get go.

Ubuntu on the wrong products

[garyebickford]

I bought (through my employer) a dual-screen Dell workstation last year. I run Ubuntu on everything - my laptop,. my personal desktop, etc. But the only products Dell offered Ubuntu on was low-end econoboxes. I finally resorted to buying it with RedHat Enterprise Linux. However RHEL did not meet my needs - I tried it for a while but because of the long version cycle it just couldn't be brought up to date with things I needed for my work - not to mention being less user-friendly for this GUI-obsessed guru. (I've been using the hottest GUIs I could achieve since my days using graphic terminals and programming 3D in FORTRAN. I built my own RS232 switch once to allow me to run three terminals on the same serial line, so I could have three screens - back in 1981. One for output, one for debugging output, one for coding.)

After putting up with RHEL for several months I finally switched over to Ubuntu 9, and now I'm running 10. I"m sorry, but I need this year's software. Among other things, I needed OpenOffice.org 3.2 for a project I was working on. I'm also a Compiz addict, and RHEL did not support a number of packages required by Compiz.

I never understood why Dell refused to provide Ubuntu on anything but their toy systems. It probably has to do with internal politics, and possibly something to do with their contract with RedHat. IMHO the lesson here is not that Ubuntu couldn't sell - it is that Dell did not understand the market.

As long as a canonical driver list is provided

[kriston]

As long as a canonical driver list is provided so we can get Ubuntu to work properly, who cares if they don't sell them with Ubuntu. I haven't seen enough of these Window-less computers that were any cheaper than the Windows Home versions were.

Microsoft strikes back at Linux xxxxxxx push

[Locutus]

does this sound familiar or what?

Microsoft strikes back at Linux netbook push

just as this article was about netbooks, the new buzz word to kill off in the name of Windows is tablet and to some extent smartphone. They'll have a very tough time with the smartphone but the tablet sector is just getting started and Android isn't even out of the gate on that platform yet.

I smell lots of marketing deals forcing exclusivity with Microsoft once again.

LoB

Re:Not a big deal

[markdavis]

You are more confident than I am. I used to believe that surely either market pressure or government intervention would bring an end to the Microsoft tax and allow consumers choice and to see what they are actually purchasing (line item). But it has been so many years, I have lost faith.

The only thing more annoying than purchasing a machine with MS-Windows you don't want, knowing that money is going to support the monopoly that takes away your choice, is buying a supposedly Linux machine, only to find out later that there are deals "behind the scenes" that *STILL* funnel money to Microsoft, even when you didn't get a license. (Yes, that happens)

And that is a lie otr you are sarcastic

[aepervius]

Most stuff onn windows is plug and play. I say most, but really it has been years since I did not have something which did not work directly before last month, and last month that was speciality hardware (DVB-T over the air as USB). Instalation went without a hitch, I jsut had to install something on a provided DVD that's it. On Ubuntu I had to fiddle with command line to do various stuff, like watch DVD, mount additional drives as more than read only, I had to fiddle around with (albeit only a bit) with the wireless connection, and more importantly, despite spending 2 week end on it and going over many ubuntu web site , I never got my DVB-T receiver to work.

Ubuntu work out of the box as much as windows work out of the box. But side step a bit away from the box, and WHAM ! Ubuntu hit you square in the face (more like Linux in general). Windows is much more forgiving. I haven't also to "hunt" software update on the web. Certainly not for the windows OS, only for games.


I am sorry, but you are seeing this comparison windows vs Ubuntu with what I call a "linux rosy glasses" very biased. As someone which don't care for either windows, or Linux I can only tell you to remove the pink glasses (well not 100% , I still prefer Linux/Ubuntu very very slightly due to work related reason, but that is beside the point here). I would trust my parents and family with a winbox, I would not trust them with ubuntu, even if they get used to the OS. Too much stuff I would have to help them with for which one would have to hunt down obscure forums. Like installing DVB-T.

Re:really old MS FUD issue

[king neckbeard]

I would disagree. With a LiveCD, it's easier to save even a Windows users' data with Ubuntu than with Windows. I'd say the real issue with support is that it just isn't Windows, so it isn't familiar to many users.

Payment for repository access?

[tepples]

However, you are installing a random package from a random website and you don't know if it will work or if the dependencies it needs are available.

Windows operating systems remain supported, and dependencies of applications designed for them available, for longer than a typical Linux distribution (even Ubuntu LTS) remains supported.

The package manager gives you a centralized and searchable listing of packages, and most of them are sure to work with the system, unlike a random .deb off the net.

Does the package manager provide a means for payment for the privilege to download and use an application? Not all non-free applications have viable free clones.

What apps are like these but free?

[tepples]

i would like you to name one app that does not have a free alt.

The following are proprietary commercial programs available for PCs running Windows. What is the closest equivalent to each that is distributed under a free software license?

• Netflix Watch Instantly
• Adobe Photoshop, including those high-end features that distinguish it from GIMP mods such as GIMPshop
• Adobe Flash CS3
• TurboTax
• Stone Edge Order Manager
• Sonic 3 & Knuckles
• Diablo II
• Starcraft
• Street Fighter IV
• Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

Re:What apps are like these but free?

[cmwalden]

I don't tend to game on the PC like I used to, so I don't have an answer for any of your games. So, yes... windows is probably a stronger arcade... though I've been more impressed with what Flight Gear can do than I ever was with the Microsoft Flight Simulator. Like many, I've moved my gaming to the Wii, or other consoles.

Hulu and other services provide instant viewing on Linux just fine. The Roku device which allows Netflix instant viewing is Linux-based, but for some reason they continue to deny access to Linux on their web site. This is a decision they have made... not a technological barrier.

I probably don't do the same things with graphics that you do, but I've found GIMP perfectly usable for anything I hand it. I've touched up photos, including removing reflections and other matter from photos, touched up blemishes and red-eye, and a number of other things. I've also used tutorials written for PhotoShop to learn how to do things in GIMP when they were about artistic technique and not idiosyncrasies of the tool. If you want Adobe PhotoShop, precisely and exactly, then it will need to be done by Adobe. That has to be their decision.

There are options to do things like Adobe Flash, including the OpenLaszlo project. Again, they are not precise and exact clones of Adobe. That's the funny thing about intellectual property is that when you create an alternative technology it has to have some differences from the existing version or you end up in court. Again, Adobe has made a decision on this... and if you're letting Adobe determine your technologies then you'll have to follow their lead and move when they say you can.

I've used TurboTax online for the last several years through Linux with no problem. I think their official decision is that they want to move people online and that version works for Linux. It's not free, but I'm not concerned about free... only that it will work for my environment. If everything must be free then I guess anyone can be right in this argument by only choosing technologies which have cost associate with them.

I don't know much about Stone Edge, so I can't say much about it. Looking at the web site it seems to be a pretty specific tool. A lot of people build their computing (and even their business) around a particular tool. If the tool doesn't do it, they don't either. If the tool must do it, then it becomes a core part of their methodology. If you've built your work habits immutably around how specific tools work, then you have to follow the tool.

It is probable that you will never be in a position to move to Linux. That's OK. You need to stay in your comfort zone and where you feel you are most productive. (I know one guy who still swears by his index cards... and they still sell them at the office store.) I think, though, that there are many users who don't have your specific requirements who would find that Linux does everything they need to do "out of the box." I think many who are new to computing would easily develop the knowledge and flexibility on a Linux system in the way that you have developed it on Windows. Many who get the chance to try Linux will make the choice to stick with it... not all... maybe not even most. Isn't what's on each person's computer really about what works for them?

Re:What apps are like these but free?

[nschubach]

Wine works well for x86, not so well for non-x86. As netbook makers introduce ARM powered models to save battery, "play all your games on Wine" won't be the easy cop-out that it used to be, at least until DOSBox gains some sort of dynarec.

But you listed Windows applications... and those won't run on ARM either.

Re:No business in Ubuntu

[dotnetfreak666]

"Microsoft to destroy it with windows"? Lol thats hillarious. Guess that nothing more could be expected from a limited brain. The netbook market got dominated by Microsoft simply because it works. Personally I have 4 netbooks, I bought one with linux but it was a hell to make things to work. From incompatibilities on opening documents to Flash crashing, etc. I just installed windows and voila! I dont want to spend hours surfing the web researching how to fix things or make things work, I just want to turn it on and start using it, thats all. And Im not a novice computer user, Im a software developer and Im not amused to get dirty, but I simply decided to have a life. Sources: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10/05/123253 http://gizmodo.com/5058953/linux-netbooks-are-returned-4x-more-than-win-xp-versions-says-msi