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An Unprecedented Look At Apple's "Black Labs"

An anonymous reader writes "Apple recently granted ABC Nightline unprecedented access to its secretive 'black labs' where it puts upcoming products through exhaustive testing."

27 of 125 comments (clear)

  1. Considering the stink about iPhone4 by Chas · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe their testing isn't, exactly, "exhaustive".

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    1. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by nomadic · · Score: 4, Funny

      Considering the past 20 years of structural design flaws, as well.

    2. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 5, Funny

      Have you EVER tried to exhaust a Black Lab? I mean, your Golden Retriever may be something to talk about.

      But the Lab? They're indefatigable!

      --
      "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
    3. Re:Considering the stink about iPhone4 by nomadic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uhh.... A battery failure that wasn't their fault and unsightly fine cracks? You fanboys have resorted to just making things up, havnt you. Go play halo er something.

      Uh oh, I made one of them mad. Hopefully he didn't spill his organic espresso on his vintage Ramones t-shirt, or his underemployed coworkers down at the indie record store will make fun of him.

      Out of the two macs I've owned, one ultimately died because the power supply burnt out (which has never happened with any of the dozen or so PCs I've owned in my life), and the other, a macbook, stopped sending data to the screen because of a poorly designed hinge (Apple fixed it once, but would not fix it the second time it happened).

      And maybe I WILL play Halo when I get home. It's an excellent game.

  2. This is going to be posted quite a bit. by Adaeniel · · Score: 5, Funny

    Apparently, their exhaustive testing doesn't actually include using the product.

    1. Re:This is going to be posted quite a bit. by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Funny

      Apparently posting about it doesn't require using the product either.

      You must be new here... it doesn't even require reading about the product, let alone using it.

  3. Apple's Black Labs: by not+already+in+use · · Score: 5, Funny

    Where Apple tests for flaws in other phones to justify the flaws in their own phones.

    --
    Similes are like metaphors
  4. teehee by Pojut · · Score: 2, Insightful

    where it puts upcoming products through exhaustive testing

    Does that involve letting Apple fanboys and Apple haters handle the devices, just to be sure they can make sufficiently outrageous claims about the product?

  5. For those of us not in the US and Hulu'd up.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq6sjH1W7hA

    1. Re:For those of us not in the US and Hulu'd up.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq6sjH1W7hA

      Seriously, how lazy do you have to be to not make that a proper link?

  6. ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by Dynamoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ABC is owned by Disney. Steve Jobs owns 138 million Disney shares or about $4.7bn worth of stock. Anyone else think it odd that Disney is running a puff piece for one of its major shareholders?

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    1. Re:ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by vlm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Anyone else think it odd that Disney is running a puff piece for one of its major shareholders?

      Somewhere around 5 media companies control about 99% of what the general population sees, hears, reads, and frankly, thinks.

      So, if a rich dude invests in a major media company, then pretty much by definition there is about a 1 in 5 chance that a report from a major media outlet will be covering one of their own shareholders.

      Its not like we have a free market of numerous equal competitors trying to push commodities in the media world.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:ABC.. Disney.. Jobs.. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Funny

      Somewhere around 5 media companies control about 99% of what the general population sees, hears, reads, and frankly, thinks.

      Unfortunately, (or not) Geeknet, Inc is not one of these 5 companies.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  7. Hey look, damage reduction! by kyz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder how much it costs to get your damage-limiting press release videos on to national television?

    Apple are the brand that never make any mistakes. EXCEPT WHEN THEY DO. But that's because everybody makes mistakes, not just Apple.

    It's important to know: all phones are susceptible to the "death grip"... it's just a tiny minor detail, not really worth mentioning, that the iPhone 4 "death grip" is "holding it normally in your left hand".

    --
    Does my bum look big in this?
    1. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by Joe+U · · Score: 2, Funny

      that the iPhone 4 "death grip" is "holding it normally in your left hand".

      Wait a sec, doesn't everyone use a rubber band to hold the phone to their head nowadays?

    2. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Apple's demo videos seem faked. I have a friend with a Droid X and another with an Eris (I personally have a Nexus One - which is very similar to the Eris) - both of which seem to have negligible signal loss no matter how I hold them (at first using their video as a reference). Eris dropped a whopping 6 db signal when I held both hands around the bottom of the phone - and I have really sweaty hands most of the time. There really is no way to just hold the phone like normal or even abnormal and go from full signal to zero.

      The Droid-X actually has two antennas - one at the top and bottom - holding both had similar effect.

      I've only been able to handle one iPhone 4 - and just touching the two antennas on the gap for me (again sweaty hands) causes reasonably large signal loss (I really don't know because unlike Android the iPhone doesn't have an actual s-meter buried anywhere it seems).

    3. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's more than that: All antennae in the frequency bands used by cellphones will suffer some attenuation if your meaty hands are wrapped around them. You are absorbing a chunk of the radiation. This applies to all brands, and is why many cellphones have an area, or areas, they encourage you not to touch during use. Typically, phones are designed so that you won't tend to hold this part during routine use.

      On the iPhone 4, the antenna is external and does not have a dielectric coating. In addition to attenuating the signal with their meaty consumer-hands, the user can actually modify the performance characteristics of the antenna(for the worse); by being conductive enough to count as part of it, or by bridging the two sections.

      Apple has, naturally, been doing their best to conflate these two distinct antenna issues. All phones suffer from finger-meat signal attenuation. The iPhone is pretty much the only phone in the industry that has an exposed, externally conductive, antenna. Even the old-school designs with external pull-up antennas generally had those coated with plastic, and the user was hardly encouraged to hold the phone by a flexible extending antenna, rather than by the body.

    4. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by Joe+U · · Score: 4, Funny

      There really is no way to just hold the phone like normal or even abnormal and go from full signal to zero.

      Sorry, you're wrong, after holding the Eris with both hands, and feet, underwater, on top of a mesa while in a Faraday cage I experienced significant signal loss. While in comparison, I saw absolutely no signal loss after using the new bumper Apple issued (while attached to the 12 ft iTenna, but most iphone users have at least one of them)

    5. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by kaiser423 · · Score: 5, Informative

      +1. Mod parent up. I think that the iPhone is a great phone, but as an RF engineer I'm tired of two people conflating the issue. The issue with the iPhone is that some RF engineer lost a fight and there's no conductive coating, so you effectively bridge two antennas if you happen to touch a specific spot. That's a totally different problem from the "my hand is absorbing the radiation and weakly coupling to the antenna" that all phones have.

    6. Re:Hey look, damage reduction! by dogzilla · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't have an iPhone 4, but I've been following this pretty closely as I'm interesting in buying one. One thing I note is a similarity between what many people report with the iPhone and what you describe with the Droid X. This is borne out by those people I personally know who already own an iPhone 4 - none of them have reported a problem in daily use. Two of 4 report being able to cause the issue although it doesn't affect them in normal use, the other 2 can't seem to replicate the issue. I don't personally know any Droid X owners. This really feels like a silly manufactured issue that now has a life of its own with the sniping back and forth. I have a lot of trouble believing that a major company like Apple would fake a video with a competitor's product though. Maybe back in the days of Edison and Tesla, but I don't buy that anyone would do that today.

      --
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  8. Anti-Internet Territorial blocking by ChocNut · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Living in the past and breaking the international web with your territory blocking BS. Screw Hulu

  9. Re:Exhaustive testing? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Funny

    Don't blame the testers

    It's not a problem with testers, it's a lack of testees.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  10. Re:Considering ... by sonnejw0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think it's QC, not R&D. An Apple store recently opened near me so I got to play with some iPhone4's for a while in the store, and I might go back because I found some interesting things. Two iPhone4's right next to each other, one dropped to 0 bars in the store within 30 seconds of merely touching the antenna gap, the other one dropped 2 bars after a couple minutes of death gripping it. There was NO discernable exterior difference in the phones. I even scratched at the metal to try to see any noticeable polyvinyl coating on one v the other. At that point, the third "Genius" in a matter of 90 seconds asked if I needed any help, so I began to feel awkward poking at the phone (it was very busy in the store).

    I would not be surprised if one manufacturing plant in China has a poor Quality Control or Quality Assurance division that just is not doing their job. I've seen pictures of iPhones with reversed volume controls on the side, and this lends to that explanation, and to Apple's personal assurances that they've thoroughly tested these phones. A coating of some sort should be sufficient to abrogate any conductivity, and it does not make sense that Apple did not think of that. I might return and take a look at the batch numbers on the back of the iPhones I played with in the store. I'm still not buying one, because I have no idea if I'm going to get one that works or one that does not, and I'm not playing games with the return people. By the time they get it sorted out, if ever, the Next Big Thing will probably be out. I still own the original iPhone, because nothing has seemed worth the upgrade yet.

  11. That's a big claim... faked by hellfire · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is not a defense of Apple, but a statement about how large corporations work. I seriously doubt that the videos were completely faked. As with anything, the results can be spun or manipulated, but there has to be a least a shred of truth, or the lawyer attack dogs would be out by now.

    Apple basically called out every single smartphone developer and said "you all suck too!" and posted videos to "prove" it. Those companies all responded so far with nothing but the same tired PR statements. If Apple was actually slandering these other phones and faked the results entirely, I'm sure these companies would love to have some extra cash plus a chance to smear one of their biggest competitors.

    Now, Apple's video proof is mostly annecdotal since it's one phone and one hand. Yours is too, however. I know people who say they can't make the Apple Antenna issue happen on the iPhone 4, and I see videos on Youtube posted both before and after the iPhone 4 that point out signal loss issues with other smartphones. All of this evidence is, again, annecdotal.

    From a scientific standpoint, you have to admit Apple's doing a good job of basically trying to throw a bunch of "proof" out there and making people pick thru it. It stirs in just enough doubt to make everyone stop and think. The hard core haters and fanboys won't change their mind, but this is like election politics, it's not about swaying everyone, just trying to tilt the balance in their favor.

    --

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    1. Re:That's a big claim... faked by mjwx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is not a defense of Apple, but a statement about how large corporations work. I seriously doubt that the videos were completely faked. As with anything, the results can be spun or manipulated, but there has to be a least a shred of truth, or the lawyer attack dogs would be out by now.

      I have a very good idea as to how marketing works, I used to work for a marketing^W, sorry Corporate Communications company.

      It is far easier to fake the results you want then to go through an elaborate testing procedure and attempt to spin everything. When we need a picture that conveys a certain message we'll send it to the photoshop guys rather then waiting for the right time of day, hoping the weather is OK, meticulously establishing a set, taking a dozen pictures and hoping one is usable.

      Faking images is standard operating procedure. I have no doubt the significant drop in bars was a complete fabrication. Apple could not afford to play this one by chance and seeing as no-one has been able to replicated the issue as Apple presented it I doubt the results they showed were real.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  12. Re:Considering ... by hitmark · · Score: 2, Insightful

    i get the impression that apple want people to feel the coolness of brushed metal directly. Observe the metal back of the first iphone (before they found it to affect signal quality, and changed to plastic) and the ipad. Its almost as if its a company fetish.

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  13. Next Activision game! by ninjacheeseburger · · Score: 2, Funny

    Call of Duty: Black Labs