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Most Consumers Support Government Cyber-Spying
scurtis writes "Nearly two thirds of computer users globally believe that it is acceptable for their country to spy on other nations by hacking or installing malware, according to Sophos's mid-year 2010 Security Threat Report. And 23 percent claimed to support this action even during peacetime. Perhaps more surprisingly, 32 percent of respondents said that countries should also be allowed to plant malware and hack into private foreign companies in order to spy for economic advantage."
Nearly two thirds of people agree with whatever their government do. Right ?
Otherwise, how would they get elected in the first place, at least where elections do take place ?
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
“It’s kind of curious, because these are the people that have got no time for hackers and the bad guys at all, but seem to think it’s all right for countries to do this,” said Cluley. “I think they need to remember that, one day, it might be a country attacking your company’s network, and trying to infiltrate it, and how are you going to feel about it then?”
Hire people like us thats what you do. Information security professionals know how to deal with malware attacks, just as nationalist cyber armies know how to attack and infiltrate. This creates jobs for both sides so it's not really a bad thing for most of us on Slashdot. Also how long did we really think we could go around being ignorant of security procedures and leaving networks open to infiltration? It's time that corporations spend the money necessary to defend from infiltration and it's time that the government create their elite army of hackers that they keep hyping up and talking about.
Let the cyberwarfare begin.
So why not take the best hackers of the United States and train them to hack China, Iran, Iraq or whereever the foreign networks are? It's not like the foreign networks aren't hacking the US networks.
Also it creates jobs. Since most people on Slashdot work in these industries imagine the amount of jobs the billions of dollars of funding will create for all of us? High paying jobs for American citizens.
They're "idiots". Get it right, article.
They don't seem to care if the government spies on them either. Anyone who complains about government spying on Americans is labeled a Tin Foil hat wearing Alex Jones loving right wing Militia terrorist.
I like how we are merely consumers and no longer Citizens now.
Fuckers.
Nobody's national anthem begins with "We're Number Two!" So naturally, they believe that they're most entitled to rule over everybody else. However, every country has this attitude. Therefore, nobody will have any privacy until they reject that patriotic sense of entitlement.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
as long as people identify themselves as french, or muslim, or black, or brazilian, or christian, or asian, or whatever
before they identify themselves as human
when you identify your nationality, or your religion, or your race, as your primary source of pride and your primary source of identity, you are what is wrong with this world, you have just committed the original sin, which allows all the wars and transgressions and crimes you see in this world to take place
pride in some arbitrary signifier, above your basic humanity, is the opening move in the game of dehumanizing all other nationalities, or religions, or races, and thereby accepting or rationalizing or acknowledging, even if simply by staying silent, atrocities against other, fellow, human beings
you can still be proud of your nationality, or your religion, or your race, of course
as long as you identify as a human being, first and foremost, above and beyond anything else, and you know that your pride in your nationality, religion, or race, is but a triviality, not a serious factor in your life
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
The lovely thing about that justification is that they will turn around and share it with your own government. Just like they do now...
So the UK spies on US citizens and the US spies on UK citizens, then they share, thus spying on their own citizens by proxy.
In short, you don't believe in civil liberties unless you believe that they apply to foreigners and people you hate.
Most consumers are raging idiots.
The mocked up stats ITFA almost seem pretty skewed. I love how the central polling audience are called 'computer users', then went on to ask them their opinions VERY in-depth topic that only someone who loathes in technology for pleasure, employment or both would understand (e.g. DDoS). Since my wife is a 'computer user', I'll make sure to ask her what a her stance on using DDoS attacks against foreign banking institutions and after being drawn in by her blank stare, have her call me a 'nerd' after the fact. Whole article sounds superficial to me.
are clueless idiots.
Move on, nothing to see here.
Seriously, it drives me up the wall that most people don't care about their on-line privacy, or if their accounts get compromised, or if their personal data is sold to Russia somewhere.
So why would these clueless dolts not support this sort of crap "against other people?"
After all, they have nothing to hide....
I'm okay with America spying on other countries, because I'm sure most every industrialized nation spies on us. Certainly China, India, Pakistan, Iran, etc etc etc
What's that?
While I agree that both govt and business entities need to invest in PROPER network infrastructure safeguards to protect "their" data, unfortunately I see this as just another indicator of where man is now and where he is going.
Gone is the day where Integrity and Honor were worth more than gold or any other medium of wealth. Now it's all "what's in it for me". If you can't win the debate with facts and logic then smear, cheat, outright lie and "spy" on the other guy to try and dig up some dirt ... and then say "So there. I'm right".
It makes one wonder if civilization in general, not any specific country, republic or union, has reached it's zenith and is now on a steady decline back into barbarism and will eventually decay into a mass if "city states" as during the time of the ancient pre Greco-Roman era.
Unix has always been User Friendly
I fully support my government, and I oppose those who dare to criticize our government. BTW, my name is oldhack, and I approve this message.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
And 90% of all american users are ok with this only if no one else spy on them. Talk about a morons country.
The Security Threat Report also found that the US is still has the majority (42.29 percent) of malware-hosting websites.
USA! USA! USA!
RIP America
July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001
Substantial funding was made possible by 1. DARPA 2. Government Worship Foundation 3. Taxpayers
Half the respondents were from China, where they figured "spy on our enemies" felt like the lower risk answer.
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
Err, when is 32 percent equal to most?
However 32 percent supporting government spying is terribly frightening.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
...evolution is dead. At least for us.
Gur evtug bs gur crbcyr gb or frpher va gurve crefbaf, ubhfrf, cncref, naq rssrpgf, ntnvafg haernfbanoyr frnepurf naq frvmherf, funyy abg or ivbyngrq, naq ab Jneenagf funyy vffhr, ohg hcba cebonoyr pnhfr, fhccbegrq ol Bngu be nssvezngvba, naq cnegvphyneyl qrfpevovat gur cynpr gb or frnepurq, naq gur crefbaf be guvatf gb or frvmrq. (For our snooping friends :-)
The Luddites were ahead of their time.
so right now, with america so divided, this is easy.
... yah - there's your 2/3's.
:P
You have your GOP base, which, if polled will probably with 90% accuracy, say that "anything that supports our country is patriotic, and if my friends knew that I said "NO I DON'T THINK THAT'S RIGHT" that they would be ousted from their community.
And then you have your liberal base, of which I would say probably a 1/3 are the more conservative, gun toting liberals, who will say the same thing - and of course these people are no different than the same types on the GOP that just vote one way or another because that is what their friends vote.
So
And before you think i'm trying to troll, please look in the mirror. I don't vote... too scared of that new world order thing
The bigger question is: how many people support domestic cyber-spying? I can see support for foreign espionage, since it's widely assumed that every country does that anyways, but in my little circle of acquaintances I have been seeing more and more people actually support and push domestic spying as not only acceptable but something to be praised.
For example, I wouldn't be surprised that this 2/3rd advocating government spying, constituted mostly of Chinese computer users, that have been brainwashed by the Chinese government propaganda. China is the most populated country in the world after all.
And considering that even in USA, the other country with highest number of computer users, over half of the population voted in Bush for a second term and what with the war on terror propaganda. It implies that at least half the Americans will willingly and happily live in 1984, if they are told that it is necessary to "keep them terrorists away".
I scanned the actual Sophos report and nowhere did I see a presentation of how the sample was drawn, how it's distributed across countries, of the level of sophistication of the respondents. At a minimum, I'd like to see the sample divided out by countries or regions. Talking about "computer users globally" requires some substantial documentation before I'll believe they've even come close to drawing a world-wide sample, much less one that is statistically representative of computer users worldwide. How many people did they interview in China, India, or Kenya? How was a "computer user" defined? Any study as bold as to claim that it represents the attitudes of "computer users globally" needs a lot more documentation than the article or the Sophos report provide.
The most telling statistic on the kinds of people who might be in the sample comes from responses to the question "Do you think you will quit Facebook over privacy concerns?" If you believe the data from Sophos, Facebook should be seeing a mass exodus. About 18% of the respondents say they've already left Facebook for this reason, and another 30% claim to be "highly likely" to quit. It's hard to take these figures seriously when Facebook just recently reporting having over half a billion accounts.
By the way, the section of the report entitled "No OS is Risk Free" talks only of Windows and OS/X. While I don't think Linux is "risk-free" either, I'm guessing Sophos writes reports for organizations on the platforms that generate its income. Sophos is hardly a distinterested party when it comes to evaluating operating systems and platforms.
I don't see why this is so surprising. Most people recognize that their own governments spy on other countries as part of legitimate defense of their country.
Of course, the question asked by the media is far too broad to be meaningful. They don't ask whether they support their government spying on other countries when it's not legitimate defense of their country. And they don't ask whether they support their government spying on their own country, whether it's "legitimate" defense of their country or not.
Or whether it's ever legitimate to spy on their own country, violating their fellow citizens' rights instead of protecting them, when there's no probable cause, warrant or other due process. No data on where people accept that line being drawn inside their own country.
So the results are really just another straw on the camel's back of innuendo that pushes headlines about "people support being spied on". Because the corporate mass media and its ecosystem of spook-infested think tanks are so corrupt, lazy and complicit in the globe's many and interlocking police states that all they can do is sell us lies to con us into allowing our own governments to spy on us.
--
make install -not war
tribalism == groupthink == Weapons of Mass Delusion
Biggest threat to civilization, ever.
How to fix most of the world's problems, in one step:
1. Replace tribalism/groupthink with globalism/egalitarianism
2. Profit!
I won't live to see it. Roddenberry didn't.
Call me a person, citizen, customer, etc, but don't call me a consumer. A consumer is someone that does nothing but consume.
The word "consumer" doesn't even make sense in this case. In what sense am I "consuming" when I'm being spied on by a government?
there will never be peace in this world as long as people identify themselves as french, or muslim, or black, or brazilian, or christian, or asian, or whatever ...you can still be proud of your nationality, or your religion, or your race, of course
How can you be proud of something without identifying with it?
Sorry, but your wish is an impossible pipe dream. Humans are not wired that way, they will quickly group and self-identify at the drop of a hat. Just look at highschool! This is not learned behavior, it is ingrained.
If we were all emotionless drones your plan might work, but I wouldn't want to live in that world of peace and harmony and.... pointlessness.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
When I read the headline I thought they were talking about spying on its own citizens and I was ready for arms. Then I read its on foreign governments and I am all like ok, what ever gets the info. I'll go speculate to myself if I should feel bad about that.
Momento Mori
Its all fine when they think Bond is working for them and in their best interests.
All the devices are pointed at the Soviets or other evils.
Reality is corps, telcos and govs and friendly govs are all looking inward, buying and selling data about them.
They recall the Berlin tunnel(s), Vienna and Moscow phone tap efforts during the cold war and smile.
So cute, surgical and clean.
The KGB may know but the GRU did not and wow was it good times.
Now all that skill is facing them, the word searches and 24/7 taps. What was off the books in remote spy factories for Russian use might be very legal in a domestic setting soon.
Protest too much and that sci fi Windows ready malware could get very real.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Do the same study by telling them if they want foreign government to spy on their data and see the result.
Now how many of those people had any idea what any of those words meant?
"Let the cyberwarfare begin." - by elucido (870205) * on Wednesday August 04, @10:30PM (#33146352)
Begin? My man, it's BEEN GOING ON, & for ages now! Where have you been man?? Mars???
Give them another question alongside that one. In this scenario, their workplaces and homes will be invaded by foreigners. They will not be harmed but they will have no recourse to stop them. They will be restrained until their homes and workplaces are searched and anything or any piece of information the invaders want is removed or noted for later use against them. Then they can go back to their lives. Oh and their country won't stop this, it will just do the same to other people.
Where the answers suddenly do not match, there you have people who don't understand the first question.
Baahhhh... (since one could reasonably assume that this survey just proves that most people are like sheep).
Because only a 'sheep' would follow the herd without knowing the fine details.
Regards,
MBC1977,
"I'm a happy consumer, and you know? I'm concerned about what my children consume!" (Bill Hicks)
Only the ignorant are surprised about this. Go to any other country in the world and try to live there. That's right, don't be the money spending tourist, be the immigrant. You'll quickly realize you're not all that welcome and all that "one of us" anymore. (Tested to work on whites too. Results guaranteed.)
In short, all those people agreeing to that crap would probably not be so keen on the steps it would require to insure our security in a world where that behavior is commonplace and acceptable for all governments. Nevermind that we should have been taking those steps for the past several decades because like it or not, that's the world we're heading to.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Soviet Proverb, "I know how I feel about being spied on, but I don't know you."
I hate to be this way, but... "allowed" by whom? you are allowed to spy on other nations in the same way you are allowed to conduct any other illegal act that is still in your national interest. Does anyone think there is a law somewhere, in some imaginary international authority, "allowing" countries to spy on each other at all, or invade if there is a good reason, or do anything else the military and intelligence agencies do? The question is stupid, if you feel justified, and your stick is big enough, you do it. If that hurts your sense of morality that means you were on the losing side of that argument. Don't give me any UN stuff either, people, including but not limited to the US bypass that all the time.
Victor Borge: Many years ago in Denmark we had inflation, and you are familiar with that problem. In inflation, we have numbers rising. Prices go up. Anything that has to do with money goes up...except the language. See, we have hidden numbers in the words like "wonderful," "before," "create," "tenderly." All these numbers can be inflated and meet the economy, you know, by rising to the occcassion. I suggest we add one to each of these numbers to be prepared. For example "wonderful" would be "two-derful." Before would be Be-five. Create, cre-nine. Tenderly should be eleven-derly. A Leiutenant would be a Leiut-eleven-ant. A sentance like, "I ate a tenderloin with my fork" would be "I nine an elevenderloin with my five-k." And so on and so fifth. I have a book here that I have brought, I have a story here that I would like to read to you so that you can get an idea of Inflationary Language, how it sounds when it's being used:
Twice upon a time, there lived in Sunny Califivenia a young man named Bob. He was a third leiutelevenant in the US Air Fiveces. Bob had been fond of Anna, his one-and-a-half sister, ever since she saw the light of day for the second time. And all three of them were proud of the fact that two of his fivefathers had been among the crenineders of the US Constithreetion.
They were dining on the terrace. "Anna," he said as he took a bite of a marininded herring, "You look twoderful threenight. You never looked that lovely befive." Anna looked twoderful, despite of the illness from which she had not yet recupininded. "Yes," repeated Bob, "You look twoderful threenight...but you have three of the saddest eyes I have ever seen."
The table was tastefully deconinded with Anna's favorite flowers: Threelips. They were now talking about Anna's asseten husband, from whom she was sepeninded. While on the radio, an Irish elevenor sang "Tea For Three." it was midnight; A clock in the distance struck thirteen. And suddenly, there in the moonlight stood her husband Don Two, obviously intoxicnineded.
"Anna," he said, "Fivegive me. I am only young twice and you are my two and only." Bob jumped to his feet, "Get out of here, you three-faced triplecrosser!" But Anna warned, "Watch out, Bob. He is an officer." "Yes, he is two. But I am two three!"
Anytwo five elevennis?
"All right," said Don Two as he wiped his fivehead. He then left and when he was one-and-a-halfway through the revolving door, he muttered, "I'll go back to Elevennessee and be double again. Farewell, Anna. Three-de-loo, three-de-loo.
Credits: Victor Borge,
via http://www.whysanity.net/monos/victor_borge.html
"Good news, everyone!"
As per the title, this is a cultural thing as much as anything. Bear in mind I'm writing this as a Brit, so this is my own interpretation - it may be totally wrong but I'm sure anything that bad will be corrected, complete with sarcastic comments about my mental capacity.
Whoever you are, I am 90% certain that had you spent every hour of your waking life being essentially indoctrinated into believing your government was all-benevolent, only ever looking out for your interests (unlike those pigs in ${COUNTRY}), you too would have no problem with your government spying. That deals with any respondents in countries under a dictatorship of some sort - and in any case, those who don't agree with this and don't like their government are probably not stupid enough to say so in an online survey.
Next up you've got countries with Western-style democracies - where historically the inhabitants have had far more problems with their neighbours than they have had with themselves. I'm thinking particularly of Europe here, there hasn't been a period of 50 years go by without significant map re-drawing somewhere in Europe in the last few centuries. Frankly, most of mainland Europe is probably more concerned about neighbouring countries than they are about their own government.
The USA - and to a lesser extent countries with a strong US cultural influence - is a little different. You chaps were colonised in the main by a bunch of people whose government had let them down - both in the initial wave of immigrants and later waves such as during the Irish potato famine. And this was long before you could jump in a plane and be in another country in a few hours for relatively little money - it would have been a long, hazardous journey by ship which would have taken weeks, during which time your personal space(!) would have been a bunk in a tiny cabin, slightly longer than your bunk and about twice as wide.
Much of this colonisation was also long before any form of fast international communication - it's quite possible that many people leaving weren't quite sure what to expect at the other end, and at best may have had little more than a few letters from relatives who had already left. There was certainly no guarantee of a better life.
The point I'm making is that America was colonised - at least initially - by a group of men and women who were pretty damn desperate to get away from their government. Net result - a group of people who are automatically very suspicious of any government. Granted, for many people, that was generations ago. But societies don't change overnight, and I'm given to understand that the US culture and education system makes no bones about the idea of governments having a tendency to make screwups which affect the entire country. So a headline like this is guaranteed to make waves in a US-centric (or at least heavily US-influenced) site like /.
Spying or inserting malware on foreign nations computers could lead to violence. A cyber attack can be deadly serious and causing a constant expense to protect oneself can ruin any real chances for commerce or even survival. I highly support strategic attacks upon any nation that even allows private industries to spy across borders. Perhaps we need to be punitive enough to make it clear that the last thing any nation wants to do is allow these cyber attacks upon us.
Guard dog sellers publish "survey" that says most chickens think that "our chicken-coop should have more of 'our' foxes".
"You mean 'country'."
"What did I say?"
-- Larry Sanders and his agent.
Wait, on the one hand the title says Consumers Support Cyber Spying, and on the other hand the only support is for spying ON OTHER NATIONS, not on consumers.
So what are we really saying here? That there isn't support for cyber spying by governments unless it's restricted to spying on foreign powers.
If you can avoid a fight, avoid it. If you are in a fight- you must survive by any means necessary, preferably by escaping. If that fails, by using maximum amount of violence and aggression in shortest period of time possible, and by using every advantage or imporivsed weapon available. And then escaping. Fighting is scary ugly uncivilized brutal thing to be avoided, and that's the way it should be. If your martial arts instructor is teaching you anything else, find some other instructor or style.
Regarding violence in everyday life- I don't see any of it living in the middle of London. It's all over the news, but I think that's just reporters chasing stories that sell. And there's plenty of it in movies & games, but that's because violence & sex sells. As far as I know, statistics show that violent crime in real life is declining, and has been for a while.
I do agree that governments around the world are getting more totalitarian now, and that is scary. It's not the violence per se that scares me the most, it's the "1984" like boot stomping on a human face forever.
--Coder
I wonder, what percentage of computer users globally believe that it is acceptable for their country to spy on them...
It's funny how people forget that countries, in the modern sense, were created merely 3-400 years ago, due to the interest of the big leaders of the time to easier gain control of a more centralized world, instead of hundreds of separate kingdoms. Then a few centuries passed, and the movement went even bigger, with super-states like the US or the EU, which represent the SAME interest, just on a larger scale. Nevertheless, they are all in our imagination.
This must be the first time I've ever agreed with you 100%. The mentality of choosing sides and declaring enemies out of thin air is exactly what allows injustice to control the world, and exactly what every government wants their populace to engage in (and spends millions each year convincing them to do so).
Of course, you failed to mention the underlying goal and real-world effect of this scam: merely to expand the business of government in terms of both power and revenue, making government yet even more lucrative for the elite few at the top.
....really don't have a clue what they were talking about.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
2/3 of people with money to burn!
AKA poor people don't count!
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
"23% of people support government cyber-spying, an additional 40% support it only in wartime."
That's what the survey actually said. For the headlines to be true, you need to first assume the entire world is at war.
This sentence no verb.
What you said doesn't make sense. Scarcity doesn't know right from wrong, moral from immoral. Same as when people say that money is the root of all evil -- money is neither good nor bad. It's merely a tool for a job, an inanimate object. It has no mind of its own, and neither does scarcity.
No, the true root of all evil is coercion. Coercion is, unlike money or scarcity, defined in terms of human behavior -- immoral human behavior. Coercion is immoral because human instinct tells us it is immoral. Every single wrongdoing that has occurred in human history, from schoolyard bullying to mass murder at the hand of government, was founded on the principle of coercion. Theft, fraud, physical force -- coercion is WHY these things are wrong and immoral, because coercion is always immoral, except in the very precise case of self-defense.
Let's put it this way. Scarcity is merely an excuse to engage in the true evil which is coercion. Money is merely an excuse for the same thing. Scarcity and money don't require or imply coercion by any means; it is perfectly possible for a group of human beings to be moral and just in the absence of money or the presence of scarcity. It is NOT, however, possible for a group of human beings to be moral and just in the presence of coercion (unless, again, in the very precise case of self-defense).
This is such utter bullshit.
It may create jobs, but they do not create value
Hear, hear. This is an example of the Broken Window fallacy. If someone breaks a shopkeeper's window, that creates a job for the glassmaker, who then has money to spend on lunch, which is a job for the baker, and so on. However, this ignores the lost opportunity of having the shopkeeper spend that money on something he actually wanted. I've heard people argue that World War II was good for the economy, and I think that's a more obvious version of this fallacy. Everyone had a job, but they were making bullets and bombs, which clearly don't help improve people's quality of life.
Step into a huge movement. Don't Tread In Me.
Rendered down to it's essence, this story is: "It's OK to spy on other people but not on me."
so is that really news?
Yes?
Amazing.
me. --a by-product of public education
Whatever. It seems that people were asked "do you want your country to have economic advantages, by using... ", and most people just say "yes", right there. Many people also favor using invasions and war for economic advantage, or foreign terrorizing and pillaging for economic advantage. I would support all secrets of all kinds to be aired and *widely distributed and published*, no matter what kind of data, secret, or info. But it seems that these secrets just pass on from one secret knowledge store to another through invisible conduits called espionage.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus.
Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.
100% of sheep are sheep.
Seriously, wtf?
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I recommend reading this wonderful book called "How to lie with statistics"... "Nearly two thirds" - how was this gathered exactly? What was the sample size? What was the target audience? Was it primarily amongst Sophos users? Did the users believe that someone spying on them when they answered this poll? Basically you can take this and shove right up there along with the "most dentists recommend" and "survey shows" type of statements.
Bow before me, for I am root.
I scanned the original Sophos report and found several problems with its authenticity.
There is no attribution at all for the claim (on page 16) that 42% of the malware sites are in the US. Where *did* they get this important number?
Reference #63 is supposedly the source that 'Mom and Pop websites' were overcome by a FTP vulnerability, but the source, a Sophos blog entry, says nothing of the kind. It discusses only the vulnerability, not the target or victims.
I'd like to point out that since Sophos sells antiviral software, their promotion of any report that paints a dire picture of web threats (whether from crackers or gov'ts) may well be colored by ulterior motives.