PS3 Hacked via USB Dongle

dlove67 writes "PSX-scene.com reports that the first PS3 modchip has been tested and confirmed to be working. Running off of a USB dongle, it appears to be relatively user friendly and claims to not void your warranty. Online gameplay works (at least for the time being). It's been a long time coming; cheers to the PS Jailbreak Guys." The video is attached below if you're curious. Can't help but point out that this wouldn't have happened if Sony hadn't decided to yank the Boot Other OS option.

Comments

What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[dave562]

The whole reason I bought a PS3 was because it was a closed platform, and because it was a closed platform, it was harder to hack the games. I like playing FPS games and they are absolutely ruined as soon as you have to deal with wallhacks and aimbots. Will this new hack open the door to programs like that?

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[hedwards]

Sony over did it, people wouldn't have been anywhere near as interested in cracking it if they hadn't vastly overstepped there rights. I can understand locking down multiplayer games, but locking down single player games so that you can't do those homebrew was just asinine. And there's no reason why they had to do it, I'm sure they could've just kept homebrew off certain servers. I probably wouldn't have bought mine had I realized that they'd taken out so many of the PS3 components to make money without properly stating it on the box.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[tepples]

The whole reason I bought a PS3 was because it was a closed platform

Which is one of the reasons why I did not. Closed platforms tend not to get indie games or legitimate mods. If Half-Life were for a closed platform, for instance, there wouldn't have been a Counter-Strike.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[The MAZZTer]

Depends how well the games are coded. PC games tend to plan for cheaters from the beginning since it's an open platform. Consoles might not because the closed nature means less hackers, but they really should... ports of PC games should in theory work better (but I hear TF2 doesn't hold up that well on the 360).

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[mlts]

This is the exact reason that I refused to buy a PS3. When the "Other OS" option was not just removed from the Slims, but removed from existing machines as a mandatory upgrade, that made the platform a no-go.

You don't need a closed platform to deal with wallhackers and aimbots. Steam runs on a ton of PCs, and VAC catches and bans forever a crapload of people daily who attempt to try this stuff. Similar with WoW. Blizzard's Warden has evolved to a point where only the gold farmers who have hundreds of thousands of accounts [1] are continuously doing hacks, and that is because account loss for them is no consideration.

[1]: A lot of gold sellers get the accounts when suckers buy gold and pay with a credit card. Then they hand the CC# and info to another organization who just charges the credit card 5-10 times and create a bunch of paid accounts. Since they are offshore, PCI-DSS is not an issue, nor if there is ever a link found, there would be any criminal penalties applied.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who on earth bothers to hack a console FPS? It's like using performance-enhancing drugs at a child's sports day.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[guruevi]

Yes, Security through Obscurity hasn't been a good strategy for decades now. As the poster points out, this wouldn't have happened if they wouldn't have killed the OS boot option - the only reason these machines get hacked is because people want to run other stuff on there as well (whether or not that's a good idea). The bootleggers and modchip makers only take what's readily available on the market and commercialize it - the margins are razor thin and risks vs. reward are high, they don't have the money to spend or the talent available to hack it themselves.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Mad-Mage1]

Since they are offshore, PCI-DSS is not an issue, nor if there is ever a link found, there would be any criminal penalties applied.

PCI regulations are not a national framework. Just because they are offshore doesn't mean they do not have to "theoretically" comply. Now, if they don't care about breaking the law and/or regulatory frameworks, that is a different story.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[IamTheRealMike]

That's a pretty big assumption. Firstly the dongle thing is clearly intended for piracy, it comes complete with "backup functionality", a GUI for that etc. I don't see any mention of booting Linux anywhere. Secondly whatever strategy Sony used, it clearly worked - PS3 is more than half way through its probably lifetime and has never been usefully hacked before. Time will tell if they can figure out how it was done and renew the protection - or not.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[abigsmurf]

So... people weren't interested in cracking the PS3 when news hit on just about every gaming website that someone had got a 'hello world' working on the console? Lots of people got really excited about that, even though it was only a minor achievement and even then, it was probably faked.

It's the good old "any justification I can grasp at for piracy".

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[IamTheRealMike]

You realize the xbox 360 has a thriving indie game scene, right? Without any firmware hacks?

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the good old 'consumer fighting back to use hardware they bought however they want and not how Sony tells them'.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[tepples]

You realize the xbox 360 has a thriving indie game scene, right?

I am aware of Indie Games. However, I am also aware of these four issues:

• The article is about the PLAYSTATION 3, not the Xbox 360. Since Sony shut off Other OS in a PS3 firmware update, it has nothing even remotely like XNA Creators Club.
• For another, does this include mods to existing games, or is it only for games made from scratch?
• Xbox 360 indie games are not available in all countries.
• XNA, the toolkit used for Xbox 360 indie games, has limitations that I've written about elsewhere.

What's the advantage of a console over a PC for people who develop or play indie games?

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[mlts]

Exactly what I mean. If an offshore gold seller hands their credit card information to another group who creates accounts on a MMO for blackhat reasons, the gold seller doesn't have to worry about violating such guidelines. Even if they are caught, if they are in a country that isn't on buddy-buddy terms with the West, the seller likely will face zero consequences.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[WhitetailKitten]

Any exploit that allows you to do something not ordinarily allowed under a game console's security model is a potential avenue to performance hacks like aimbots and speed hacks. Note: Potential. It's possible to code games to have the server reject malformed or abnormal input from the client to freeze out such hacks, but I know literally nothing about the PS3's local security and sandboxing model, nor anything about how the server code is implemented on Sony's side, so I'll defer to people actually in the scene for a specific answer to your question.

Regarding dealing with hackers, I only play FPSs that allow dedicated player-owned servers, and then find community/clan servers with strict anti-hacking policies (including, where available, server modules and such). The server I play the most on in my FPS of choice fosters a strong community, and part of that includes harsh penalties (i.e., permabans) for hacking if a demo can prove it as well as bigoted language (calling someone a faggot or the n-word is a good way to find yourself back at the game's main menu with a friendly dialog box informing you that you've been shown the door). It isn't perfect, but such a community wouldn't be possible in the Modern Warfare 2 style of matchmaking-only online play.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Kaboom13]

The 360 has been hacked for a long time, and has a thriving homebrew scene. I currently have a completely redone dashboard (that replaces the MS one) and a ton of arcade and console emulators on mine. Previous to the current hack (that allows unsigned code execution) their was a hack for the DVD-Rom firmware that allowed you to play with burned disks.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Pikoro]

Hey there , you might want to note that the backup option works for people who want to .. say... back up their current games? It's not an ISO loader, it will allow you to copy games to the hard drive and run them. If you have the disc, you most likely own it. Worst case, you borrowed it from a friend which puts you back on par with a guy who borrows a DVD from his friend an watches it on his player in his house instead of yours.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Monkeedude1212]

I'd hardly describe it as "thriving". I'd say the Xbox360 has an indie game scene, that pales in comparison to Microsofts PC indie game scene.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

It's in this area that the ps3 is more open. UT3 for ps3 supports mods. Portal 2 will talk to steam. It's only on the xbox where you see absolute control freak nightmares go on.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[cgenman]

I'm not convinced all of those people are wallhacking and aimbotting. I've seen some ridiculous playing in-person... People able to see your rate of speed, where you're likely to go, and able to lob a grenade over a wall into your head. There have definitely been people that I would have sworn were botting, but in fact were just wasting their lives.

I feel like FPS games get ruined once people get good enough to just dominate the competition. That's harder to do on consoles due to aiming with the sticks and a generally hightened awareness of newbie friendly gameplay.

As for wallhacks and aimbots: it's possible, but less likely. Consoles are not as easily abstracted or modified as PCs. Running unsigned code is one thing. Decompiling a game compiled for as strange an architecture as the cell, changing certain values, and rebuilding successfully is quite difficult. Doing that in a way that is undetectable when connecting to the network is very, very hard. It's that last step which has foiled people time and time again.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Missing.Matter]

The only thing you need to have an advantage over console players is a keyboard and mouse.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Eponymous Coward]

Did you still want to keep Other OS? You had the option to decline their update.

The problem is that by declining the update, you were effectively locked out of online game play, including for games you already owned. So, they didn't send killbots to your house, but they did force you to chose other OS xor games. For those that bought the console because it could do both, this really sucks.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[tophermeyer]

removed from existing machines as a mandatory upgrade, that made the platform a no-go.

It wasn't mandatory. It was definitely coerced, but owners did have a choice.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[WhitetailKitten]

Worst case, you borrowed it from a friend which puts you back on par with a guy who borrows a DVD from his friend and rips it to the hard drive in his house instead of yours.

I'm on the side of legal homebrew, but FTFY. Your metaphor did not balance both sides of the equation.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[cgenman]

What? I'm failing to see how some of this is Security through Obscurity. There was a security hole in the other OS that they couldn't think of a way of patching without removing the core functionality, so they removed it. That makes sense from a security standpoint.

They're going through security through security. They patch holes, make improvements, and get better at this whole thing. The PS1 was hackable in 1 wire. The PS2 required an additional circuit board for a mod chip. The PS3 isn't pragmatically hackable in that way, because they improved their security. Now someone found a hole in the USB stack. This will probably be patched too.

When you say security through obscurity, you usually mean "nobody is going to type in 'website.com/passwords' into the server!" The way you're using it, it makes it sound like any DRM even on a closed platform is doomed. And while that is possible, the pragmatic advantages of avoiding PS1-levels of piracy mean that the program has basically been a success.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[flerchin]

One day, in the not so distant past, I had a PS3 that has Other OS and could play games online.

Then, Sony made me choose. This made me sad, because I liked them both. Today's news made me sadder, because it seems the reason that I had to choose, was moot.

I chose. It still sucked.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[dimeorj]

How about when I bought Red Dead Redemption, only to find out that I had to "upgrade" my firmware in order to play that? Did Sony have a right to do that? I know the answer is yes. But it still leaves a bad taset in my mouth, and it's gonna make it harder to justify Sony purchases in the future because of that.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

While that may be true, the hole has been patched for as long as the console has been hacked; if I recall, the hack came out after the update to fix the hole.

As it is, MS has succeeded in closing the Xbox to homebrew and allowing pirates to keep on going.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Jiro]

Where can I find information about such 360 hacking? Even just to play import games (I know that some will play anyway but not all) Googling shows basically nothing except some references to a hack that worked for a single month in 2006, and a later hardware hack that has no information about anything except the hack itself.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[boxxertrumps]

It wasn't mandatory, but it did force you to choose between advertised features that were never even implied as being mutually exclusive.

If the update had no negative effects other than removing OtherOS then there wouldn't have been a lawsuit (ongoing?) because the choice would be as simple as you've stated.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Hatta]

I like playing FPS games and they are absolutely ruined as soon as you have to deal with.. gamepads.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

The PS3 has been out since November 2006. You already made your mind up not to buy one before the OtherOS debacle. Be honest eh?

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because you don't need the gimped Linux if you can develop homebrew apps.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you own a chunk of data on an unreliable medium (blu-rays can be scratched) then its irresponsible NOT to back it up. Its quite expensive to replace, and I dont see why someone should have to buy a second license to software they own just because the vendor is paranoid.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

That article you linked to is total FUD.

XNA games are allowed to use made up fantasy languages just not Elvish and Klingon.

C# runs just fine on linux as well as Microsoft OSes meaning it hits most major computing platforms.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[medv4380]

It's not that people weren't interested in hacking the PS3 for piracy. It's just he people with the skill and money to do it have little interest if they have a legit method like OtherOS. Sony locked them out of the GPU functions in otherOS so they were constantly trying to figure out how. When they did Sony took OtherOS away with the firmware updated. This made those people who are very skilled move down the path of a mod chip which has the added benefit of all the morally corrupt people who want to use the chip to pirate will be able to use it to pirate or home brew. OtherOS ultimately was an anti-piracy measure as shown by how long it has taken to crack since it was taken away.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[X.25]

That's a pretty big assumption. Firstly the dongle thing is clearly intended for piracy, it comes complete with "backup functionality", a GUI for that etc. I don't see any mention of booting Linux anywhere. Secondly whatever strategy Sony used, it clearly worked - PS3 is more than half way through its probably lifetime and has never been usefully hacked before. Time will tell if they can figure out how it was done and renew the protection - or not.

Or, PS3 is more than half way through its lifetime, and lots of people never bought it because they couldn't play backed up games. That's one of the reasons I never bought it.

Why, you ask? Well, because there is no way I'd be buying any games, ever again, based on some 'reviews'. Or trailers. Ever again. And I can't test the games in the store where I am buying PS3 (no idea how it works in the USA, though).

Now I take 'pirated' version, try it, and if I like it - I buy it.

Meanwhile, producers of shit games can keep complaining how pirates are killing the industry, while ignoring the fact they're making shit products, and they can trick us just so many times...

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[tlhIngan]

The whole reason I bought a PS3 was because it was a closed platform, and because it was a closed platform, it was harder to hack the games. I like playing FPS games and they are absolutely ruined as soon as you have to deal with wallhacks and aimbots. Will this new hack open the door to programs like that?

Depends what was defeated. For example, on the Xbox360, you can pirate games with a hacked DVD drive, but you canot mod the games because you can't run unsigned code in the main OS. You can hack your Xbox360 to run Linux, but that pretty much eliminates any option in playing Xbox360 games. So you don't really worry about cheating in Xbox360 games, other than social cheating that the Xbox can't really defend itself again ("standbying", "rage quitting", etc). Or against proxy-bots (where a proxy aimbot intercepts Xbox Live network packets).

If the PS3 is hacked similarly - i.e., it can't run unsigned code, nothing bad will happen. If it can, oh well.

And this could be the thing that gets the PS3 selling well again - with few exceptions, it's trailed behind the Xbox360 (which has trailed behind Nintendo).

And yeah, Microsoft learned with the original Xbox that not listening to indie/homebrew devs leads to easy piracy as the groups will work together on a solution. It's what happened on the Wii this generation. The Xbox360 has the XNA stuff, which certainly limits what you can do, and the PS3 had OtheroS, which also had its limits, but it calmed the homebrew waters and had the pirates working alone. Now Sony removed OtherOS, and the homebrew crowd pretty much ends up working with the piracy crowd because their work is complementary.

And hey, it's a use for that 500GB drive you tossed in your PS3 - rather than use the dog-gone-sluggish Blu-Ray drive. (Hell, the Xbox360 had the feature to copy games to hard drive...).

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Ephemeriis]

The whole reason I bought a PS3 was because it was a closed platform, and because it was a closed platform, it was harder to hack the games. I like playing FPS games and they are absolutely ruined as soon as you have to deal with wallhacks and aimbots. Will this new hack open the door to programs like that?

Actually, being a closed platform doesn't have a whole lot to do with running wallhacks and aimbots.

Normally your server has some kind of basic validation to make sure the software you're running is the software it expects. This is why many games require you to have the latest patch before joining a server. You don't generally modify the executable itself to create a wallhack or aimbot. Normally that's done with a second utility running simultaneously - a mod or an add-on the the game, basically.

Typically a console has relatively little support for modding. Typically a console is only capable of running a single executable at a time. And even if you've cracked a PS3 to allow you to play pirated games or boot other OSes, you're probably stuck running a single game at a time with very little mod support and limited ability to run other utilities simultaneously.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[tibit]

The main problem here is that Sony just likes being in your face and telling you "play by our rules, we're bigger, meaner, and we don't care". I don't think that's a message you want your customers to hear. One thing is what rights one has, another thing is not being a dick. The fact that what Sony did was perhaps legal and "OK" doesn't make it any less, um, dickish.

As for the arguments people have that somehow a closed platform has to stay closed so that people don't run hacked games: man, I didn't take the crypto course, but even I know that it's fairly easy to ensure integrity of software running on the console as long as there's a modicum of hardware support for it. This can be done on a completely open platform -- everything could be open source, as long as the crypto hardware can ensure private key integrity.

The console could support any firmware -- official and non-official builds. Official firmware images (downloadable!) could be encrypted. Such a firmware can then be decrypted and validated by the hardware upon booting. The firmware can include code signing functionality with another private key embedded into the firmware -- said key being safe, as the firmware is encrypted when handled by the user (think firmware downloads), with plaintext protected by the platform and inaccessible to the client images (games, hacks, linux images, whatever). The game servers can just ask for a digital signature of the game image with some salt appended to it -- any hacks/mods will prevent you from joining. Since you don't have access to the signing key (it's within protected and ephemeral firmware plaintext), there's no way to work around that -- random, one-time salt prevents replay attacks. There could be games that are open to everyone, and games that are only open to those who run official game code without modifications. This is not rocket science anymore, and whatever pretense Sony has for keeping things locked up just don't stand up to reality. The latter being that Sony didn't have to make things locked up so much, while still keeping all the benefits a 100% closed platform has.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

The irony of that being that if Valve can get a monopoly on PC gaming like they're trying to, you can be damn sure they'll make it a closed platform too.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because consoles cannot use keyboard/mouse does not mean PCs cannot use controllers. So what is the point behind saying that many games are better suited to controllers?

PCs have the added bonus of not becoming obsolete and unsupported. For example I can play video games from the 80s and 90s on my 2010 PC, while you need the original physical hardware to play most console games. That or you need to repurchase them as a licensed emulation.

Nothing can stop the free-loaders, they eventually will get what they want.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Kaboom13]

It's generally referred to as the JTAG hack. It requires minor soldering and modification of the 360. It does not work on every revision of the 360 currently. Frankly, if you are not savvy enough to find the info with Google, you are better off not bothering or paying someone else to do it.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Rogerborg]

PC games tend to plan for cheaters from the beginning

Cite example? The likes of Punkbuster and Warden aren't "planning", they're reactive band-aids required by designs that chose to trust the client.

I'm genuinely curious as to what games you're actually thinking of, if any.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Hatta]

The PS1 was hackable in 1 wire.

Do you have a link to this hack? All the PS1 mods I know of require at least a PIC.

The PS2 required an additional circuit board for a mod chip.

But these days you can do it with nothing more than a memory card with the proper software.

the pragmatic advantages of avoiding PS1-levels of piracy

What pragmatic advantages are those? Has Sony sold more PS3s than PS1s?

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[DrXym]

To be fair to Sony, they have been much pushing moddable games much harder than other consoles. Games like Little Big Planet & ModNation Racers for example. LBP2 is going to take it to insane new levels.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[tibit]

There are no security holes in "the other OS" -- they just effed up their core design, if that. There is no theoretical reason, nor even a practical one, why running third party code on PS3 would lead to piracy or any such thing. Assuming that the platform was designed correctly for that. It's simple enough to let the hardware access encrypted discs only when trusted firmware is being run. You run linux or whatever "Other OS" you like, and you get a plain old DVD or BLU-RAY drive, that you can use to play encrypted media (but not games) just as you would had you used a DVD-ROM or BL-ROM drive on a PC. The games could be encrypted with keys that are only available to trusted firmware, the latter being distributed in encrypted form and only decryptable by the console hardware. Heck, one could prevent trusted firmware from running untrusted games, so that it'd be impossible to probe it for security vulnerabilities. Then any indie games would need to run on their own, bundled, untrusted (3rd party) firmware. Whatever libraries are needed to access basic console hardware could be publicly distributed by Sony, so that you wouldn't need to re-implement that to use the platform. That's not hard at all, IOW.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Joe Snipe]

It's the good old "any justification I can grasp at for piracy".

For myself it's knowing that every game I pirate steals money right out from their greedy little hands. These huge companies like EA and Sony who screw their customers and their staff alike for their C*Os err, shareholders. That's why sometimes I pirate the same game three or four times! Thats like taking $200 right out of their pockets! i don't even plan on owning a PS3 but already I have amassed a pretty substantial library of "backups" (and even backup backups!). Take that fat-cats!

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[ThePhilips]

... lack of official cheats is one of the reasons why I generally dislike consoles.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, one could argue "website.com/passwords" isn't security through obscurity either... Just a poorly chosen password. Imagine it was at "website.com/tron4735439sfdd" instead (without links or a directory listing of course). That's not really any different than logging into an account via a password, which is basically just fetching "user=tron&pass=4735439sfdd".

Security through obscurity mostly applies to the idea of making your own security algorithm and not publishing it figuring that hiding both the key and the algorithm makes it doubly secure. In reality, of course, it's usually more like half as much at best.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[dave562]

Thanks for the answer. Out of 11+ replies, you're the only one who addressed the question. I 3 /. sometimes. I know what you are talking about when you mention not modifying the executable. Like you mentioned, most mods hook the executable or just modify the memory addresses once the executable has loaded.

What I was wondering is if the USB hack allows any sort of modified boot loader. It does not seem like that. Such a thing would be the holy grail to hackers. If they could boot the game executables plus their hacks, they would be set.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

Closed platforms tend not to get indie games or legitimate mods. If Half-Life were for a closed platform, for instance, there wouldn't have been a Counter-Strike.

You realize the xbox 360 has a thriving indie game scene, right? Without any firmware hacks?

The article is about the PLAYSTATION 3, not the Xbox 360.

Strawman: The article is about the PS3, but your comment wasn't; it was about closed platforms, of which the Xbox 360 is one.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, did you even watch the video where the guy loads up a pirated game on a console called the playstation 3? ugh, console tards...

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Ironhandx]

I don't cheat most of the time because I like the challenge of the game, but once you're its fun as hell to go back and cheat the pants off it running around like a god sometimes.

I want my up down up down a b a b start + select back dammit!

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[VGPowerlord]

Hey there , you might want to note that the backup option works for people who want to .. say... back up their current games? It's not an ISO loader, it will allow you to copy games to the hard drive and run them. If you have the disc, you most likely own it. Worst case, you borrowed it from a friend which puts you back on par with a guy who borrows a DVD from his friend an watches it on his player in his house instead of yours.

Most PS3 games already have the option to install to the Hard Drive, and the system itself can back up the contents of the hard drive to any external USB drive.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[TrisexualPuppy]

Yes, by one wire, the Playstation required a piece of steel wire, AKA a spring to hold the "door closed" button down when the door was open. The more invasive method would be to take a copper wire and solder the circuit closed instead of using the spring.

Load a "legit" game and pull the disc out, and stick in your burned copy of another game, and voila! The burned copy runs. You never even needed a modchip to begin with.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[ThePhilips]

Ironically, with PC games I use cheats rarely.

But I'm pretty sure without R4 (which also supports cheats) I would have thrown away my DS long time ago.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[pnewhook]

Yes, Security through Obscurity hasn't been a good strategy for decades now.

I guess you never watched that documentary on car security. They equipped a variety of cars with different state of the art security systems and asked a bunch of real life car thieves (identities hidden) to see if they could break into them and get the engine started without setting off the alarm. The *ONLY* car they couldn't start was the one with the simple engine kill toggle switch hidden under the seat.

In certain instances, security through obscurity is the best security.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[TrancePhreak]

My PS3 was disconnected from ethernet and turned off, yet somehow the update came through.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Nursie]

It may be intended for piracy, but there are some of us folks who like having a menu to go to that you can just load games from, rather than messing around with disks.

I got HD Advance for the PS2 because I wanted this functionality. I could shove a hard drive in and rip all the games I played a lot to it. No more disks everywhere, just a nice menu system.

I got hacked firmware for the PSP for the same reason. Now I don't have to take a stack of UMDs when I go on a plane AND the battery life lasts longer.

If I can have this for PS3 as well I will be a happy bunny.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

"OtherOS ultimately was an anti-piracy measure as shown by how long it has taken to crack since it was taken away."

Agreed.

The PS3 was launched in Japan and NA in December 2006. The firmware update was announced the Sunday before April Fool's Day April 2010.

So for nearly 3.5 years, no hack was developed with Other OS. Attempts made were feeble.

In less than 5 months, Sony pissed people off, took an option they had publicly stated would remain, spurred development, and tipped their hand that the hackers were getting near. Anyone who hacked the PS3 would get decent credentials for their skills.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hang on, I thought your shtick was that consoles should be opened up, because multiplayer on a single system didn't work for PC. What gives tepples? Did someone steal your dress or what?

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Nagrom]

So you don't really worry about cheating in Xbox360 games, other than social cheating that the Xbox can't really defend itself again ("standbying", "rage quitting", etc). Or against proxy-bots (where a proxy aimbot intercepts Xbox Live network packets).

Oh, that's good. In that case everyone playing, for example, MW2 on 360 didn't need to worry about the huge numbers of players running around with modified content that enables a variety of cheats and Infinity Ward didn't need to rush out all those patches to fix things up. And actually your latter suggestion is not a threat, as far as I'm aware, since all XBL traffic is encrypted and, thus far, unbroken.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

And this could be the thing that gets the PS3 selling well again

Very much indeed so. But not "again". The PS3 is outselling the 360 and is less than 4m units behind, despite being released a year later. It was over 11m at one point. Not bad for a console that has zero piracy. Many people bought Wiis and 360s because they could mod them and run copied games.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Ironhandx]

Hmm, bad typing day, there was supposed to be a "done" in there somewhere.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[shentino]

Legal?

Pardon the pun, but the jury's still out on that one.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[L4t3r4lu5]

+1

I don't care how great you think you are at CoD:MW2 on the XBox360; I will destroy you with a keyboard and mouse.

The only way I can equate the experience between going from K&M input in a PC to gamepad on a console is to unplug the mouse and use the arrow keys for X and Y axis control. It's just painful.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[TriezGamer]

The 360 has full keyboard support [though not all games do]. The PS3 has full mouse and keyboard support [though again, not all the games do].

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[rvalles]

"OtherOS ultimately was an anti-piracy measure as shown by how long it has taken to crack since it was taken away."

http://marcansoft.com/transf/mist_table.png

That's what OtherOS was, indeed.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[ravenshrike]

I don't even own a PS3 and I thought that was spiffy.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Nursie]

Yeah, but you still can't actually play it off the hard drive without the disc in there, can you?

I'd like that!

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[HTH NE1]

Actually, one could argue "website.com/passwords" isn't security through obscurity either... Just a poorly chosen password. Imagine it was at "website.com/tron4735439sfdd" instead (without links or a directory listing of course). That's not really any different than logging into an account via a password, which is basically just fetching "user=tron&pass=4735439sfdd".

There's a reason why the standard syntax "http[s]://username:password@example.com/" is not used. Any system that obscures a password by not displaying it in plain text on the screen is better than one that doesn't (and persistently at that). Even better if it does not send it over an insecure link in plain text where any packet sniffer could read it.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[unix1]

There was a security hole in the other OS that they couldn't think of a way of patching without removing the core functionality, so they removed it. That makes sense from a security standpoint.

How can you call this "security" even if you trust every word they say? E.g. in order to prevent this new USB exploit, if they simply claim they "can't fix" the software bug would it be OK for them to disable the USB ports in the next firmware update altogether? Too bad you used them to charge controllers, copy pictures from camera, etc.?

Security should refer to the product and the features you have. If you throw away the product and/or remove its core features it's not security of that product, because it's not the same product: what if they disable the Internet browser in the name of "security," then image gallery, then media functionality, how about the bluray player too? How much of the features would they have to remove before you say - hey, I'm not going to call it "makes sense from a security standpoint" anymore because it doesn't do what it claimed it would when I bought it?

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except all console shooters have built-in aimbots at them. It's impossible to make a viable tracking system with an analog stick without altering the behaviour of the controller near targets.

On the other hand, reputable PC developers constantly ban cheaters and update their games to prevent hacks. I have no idea why you think PC gaming has issues with those, but I almost never see cheaters on the games I play. That, or their cheats are so subtle that it's impossible to distinguish them from a good player even when spectating them from a first person perspective.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he's talking about genuine hacking on the consoles.

#1: MW2 texture mod, aim assist, and wall hacking on the 360.
#2: MW2 aimbot on the 360 (note difference between aimbot & aim assistance).
#3: CoD4 aimbot on the 360.

Proper aimbots easy to spot because they act uniquely in that "trained AI" sense, sometimes by mowing down opponents all around, instantaneously and with superhuman accuracy. It's not intuition, reflexes, or adapting as a human would demonstrate, but constant precision and unwavering consistency.

As for wallhacks and aimbots: it's possible, but less likely. Consoles are not as easily abstracted or modified as PCs. Running unsigned code is one thing. Decompiling a game compiled for as strange an architecture as the cell, changing certain values, and rebuilding successfully is quite difficult.

Games aren't hacked by using decompilation methods. That's to assist the hacker in learning a particular subroutine. Rarely it might be done for some interpreted bytecode segment. The actual hacking process involves disassembly and debugging. Binary or memory patching tricks are used to make changes. Why don't they use decompilation? Decompiled code isn't much more pleasant to look at than assembly is; and native (machine) code decompilers can't (typically) emit equivalent/compileable higher-level code which has a compiled output result identical to the original.

Concerning strange architectures: It isn't normally hard to port a patch-based exploit (made for the PC) to another architecture without knowing the other architecture in depth. Compilers for most platforms produce assembly code with very similar structure. In most cases it's trivial for a person to recognize and make the required adjustments.

Doing that in a way that is undetectable when connecting to the network is very, very hard. It's that last step which has foiled people time and time again.

I don't understand what you meant here. Consoles don't employ resident anti-cheating systems like those PC gamers know. If the memory becomes accessible then all security is lost. The server can do nothing against a cosmetic client cheat (which most are). Bot-based cheats are nearly alone in their weakness of being theoretically detectable by the server without help.

Client side anti-cheating systems for the PC (VAC, PB, ...) aren't immune from hacking either. VAC and PB constantly get bypassed (sometimes obviously, but mostly not). Anti-cheating works a lot like anti-virus does: Both ultimately rely on collected signatures of affected programs. Both are great against the common viruses & cheats (those that are public or popular). Both are extremely ineffective against the private or unknown viruses & cheats.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

Software copyright infringement does not equate to moral corruption, any more than copying a book on the photocopier does. It indicates that the person is either poor, cheap ass, or does not see the same value in a product as the publisher. Either way, copyright infringement is not the problem and preventing it doesn't magically create profits. If it did, PS3 game sales per user should have been sky high compared to XBox.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the good old "any justification I can grasp at for piracy".

When my choices are piracy or nothing at all, I'll take piracy. If you think I'm justifying anything, then feel free to come to Eastern Europe and try to live with less than $200/month. That's $200 to pay the bills, buy food, medicine, basic necessities and entertainment. That's what people get around here to work 10hours/day 7days/week and no, lack of education isn't the problem.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

Measure success how you want.

I didn't buy the PS3 because I couldn't bootleg it.
If I could have played my bluray rips in the format I wanted, I would have bought the PS3 - hackers would have made sure I would
If I could have bootlegged some games, I would have bought some originals too - this gives me variety, but I only pay for the games I like best.

So did Sony win out with having a hack-proof console? No. I spent my money elsewhere because the "value for money" wasn't there for me.

Piracy means sales. Ask Microsoft when they produced Windows 3.0 etc.

AC

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really a fair comparison since there's only one of those cars with the switch under the seat. Now if Ford or GM release a whole line of cars and they all used that protection, you'd be damn sure thieves would find out about it and the protection rendered useless.

That's the difference here. You have one protection and millions of people get to try their hand at it, over and over again, and only one person has to figure it out to ruin it for you. Obscurity can't work in your favour like it did in the example you provided.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Eponymous Coward]

PS3 game sales per user should have been sky high compared to XBox

Don't forget that a lot of people bought PS3's just because it was a decent Blu-ray player. This could have a significant effect on the attach rate.

And the Army bought thousands of PS3's just for the cheap processing power. The attach rate on those is 0.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[CronoCloud]

It's not an "Install" in the sense of how PC games install everything, it's more of a large cache of game data to speed things up.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Rich0]

When you say security through obscurity, you usually mean "nobody is going to type in 'website.com/passwords' into the server!" The way you're using it, it makes it sound like any DRM even on a closed platform is doomed.

Uh, well, it is. Fundamentally DRM is unsound unless the code runs on a server you have physical control over. Sure, you can make it difficult, as was done with the PS3, but fundamentally you cannot prevent somebody from obtaining the decryption keys and firmware from RAM and either emulating the whole platform, or re-engineering the software to work without keys. If the CPU can execute the instruction, then somebody with physical access to the CPU can monitor it. Granted, that might require logic analyzers running at full clock speed soldered to 50nm leads, but it will always be possible.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[pnewhook]

Not really a fair comparison since there's only one of those cars with the switch under the seat. Now if Ford or GM release a whole line of cars and they all used that protection, you'd be damn sure thieves would find out about it and the protection rendered useless.

It's a perfectly valid comparison. The security was simple (a switch) and obscured. The premise was security through obscurity was not valid and it clearly can be.

Also, if Ford or GM released a whole line of cards with a hidden switch under the seat, then that security measure is no longer obscure is it.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Kalriath]

Not quite true. Visa and MasterCard are a force to be reckoned with everywhere. Even if the country isn't on buddy terms with the western world, they still won't want to piss off the credit card associations (of which their own banks may be members). The difference is usually in countries where the government is as corrupt as the dodgy sellers (Russia, China).

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's the advantage of a console over a PC for people who develop or play indie games?

Games sell on consoles.....

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[cgenman]

What you're describing is true if you have raw access to the metal. On traditional PC systems, DRM is like trying to hide an elephant in the middle of a field of potato chips. You can't hide the elephant, and the potato chips just make a mess. You can see everything. And once you have a solution, it's a little piece of software that anyone can download and run for free. It's dumb.

But on consoles the situation is different. The hacker needs to get to the point of running unsigned code on the system. Once that is in place, hacking is likely. But to do that, they have to probe, and push, and break through in a very time consuming fashion in the dark. It is possible to make chips that resist physical attacks well enough that few people are skilled enough to crack them. And you can setup a system such that once well understood, it takes a significant hardware change to make it work. The goal is not to make it uncrackable, which is impossible, but to make it take much longer to crack and keep fewer people pirating things, so as to keep the ecosystem healthy.

PC game DRM time-to-hacks are measured in hours. Console time-to-hacks for the 360 and PS3 is measured in years. Both of their hacks require some sort of difficult physical thing, that serves as a barrier to piracy for lots of users.

Is it perfect? No. But it can work well enough to prevent PS1 / PC / PSP levels of piracy, and help keep your console ecosystem healthy.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Fallingcow]

You can do a similar modless hack with slim PS2s.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

There was a security hole in the other OS that they couldn't think of a way of patching without removing the core functionality, so they removed it. That makes sense from a security standpoint.

How can you call this "security" even if you trust every word they say? E.g. in order to prevent this new USB exploit, if they simply claim they "can't fix" the software bug would it be OK for them to disable the USB ports in the next firmware update altogether? Too bad you used them to charge controllers, copy pictures from camera, etc.?

Security should refer to the product and the features you have. If you throw away the product and/or remove its core features it's not security of that product, because it's not the same product: what if they disable the Internet browser in the name of "security," then image gallery, then media functionality, how about the bluray player too? How much of the features would they have to remove before you say - hey, I'm not going to call it "makes sense from a security standpoint" anymore because it doesn't do what it claimed it would when I bought it?

They wouldn't disable the usb ports, as that would prevent people from using the playstation eye for sony's upcoming controller.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[exomondo]

Did you still want to keep Other OS? You had the option to decline their update. Sony didn't send killbots to your house to force you to update.

So if you had an iphone and apple said 'we are removing the application functionality in the next update, however it's optional so you can retain the application functionality, but you won't be able to make calls.' you would see that as acceptable?

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole reason I bought a PS3 was because it was a closed platform, and because it was a closed platform, it was harder to hack the games.

The whole reason I bought a PS3 over an Xbox-360 was the ability to run Linux.
Frankly, since SONY stole that away from me, I have zero sympathy their circumstance. Before then, I have argued that, if one was to download and play a game, and like, it, then it should be purchased. But now? I'd open up a new category on TPB if I thought it would get those thieving fucks out of the marketplace.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[citizenr]

Wait. You like FPS games so you bought a console to play them with a joypad????!?!??!!

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[FinestLittleSpace]

VAC, which is an Anti-Cheating platform for Steam. It's almost invisible, has been nurtured and developed by Valve since 2002 and is used on Third Party games using Steamworks (which means game devs plug it in from the get-go), and is surprisingly secure considering it's a widespread platform.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[iainl]

What's the advantage of a console over a PC for people who develop or play indie games?

Two things, basically.

1) An audience of lots and lots of people who may not consider getting your indie game on the PC for whatever reason (maybe they don't like playing games in the computer room rather than the big telly, maybe they've got a Mac instead, and so on)

2) A nice interface that makes it easy for those people to find your game, and also easy for them to buy it.

Steam does (2) quite well as well, but I don't know how easy it is to get on. In any case, it's not the end of the world to bring a PC version out as _well_ as your XNA one, should you choose to.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[IamTheRealMike]

By "doesn't work on every revision" you mean it doesn't work on any device that updated past Summer 2009 right?

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[iainl]

As long as your opponent is using the same tool, what does it matter whether the one you prefer is the "best"? Playing with an aimbot would make you an even better shot, and both sides could always use them to be fair, but that probably wouldn't be much fun.

Some people find pointing a mouse at an enemy and clicking on their head to not be much fun either; if they want to play on consoles let them.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Rogerborg]

Oh, well, if you call it a "plan" to rely on on A Wizard Did(n't Do) It, then then sure. Could I interest you in purchasing this black box that protects you from ninjas?

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[tophermeyer]

So if you had an iphone and apple said 'we are removing the application functionality in the next update, however it's optional so you can retain the application functionality, but you won't be able to make calls.' you would see that as acceptable?

Well that example is a little different. Apple has no right to kick people off of AT&T's network. but...

Sure, I would see that as acceptable. I don't see anything wrong with Apple/At&T making decisions about what devices and software packages can access their network. I would imagine that would let me out of whatever service contract I had with AT&T though.

Sony's situation is different. They cut off access to a free non-contractual service, and they had always reserved the right to change or modify their Terms of Use. Granted it was an advertised feature and the majority of users purchased their PS3's for that reason, but Sony still must have the right to say who can and can't access their networks. Right?

This move makes me not trust Sony. It will make me hesitant to buy a similar "hardware with FREE internet services" device from them in the future. But there was nothing wrong with what they did. They pissed people off to be sure. But that was their business decision to make. They've got a long history of being dicks to their customer base, but people keep buying their stuff.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[tepples]

maybe they don't like playing games in the computer room rather than the big telly

Then why don't they have a computer in the room with the big telly?

maybe they've got a Mac instead [...] it's not the end of the world to bring a PC version out as _well_ as your XNA one

XNA runs on Windows and Xbox 360. But though Mono runs on a Mac, the port of XNA to Mono appears to have stalled. Does Mono have a preferred gaming API? Or should developers have to make the choice between writing the model in C# or C++/CLI and targeting Xbox 360 and not Mac on the one hand, or writing the target in standard C++ and targeting Mac and not Xbox 360 on the other?

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize that isn't the only function they killed? You can no longer expect games branded "playstation 3" to run on the playstation 3, and they've basically announced they'll do the same for Blu-Ray movies.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[tophermeyer]

You can no longer expect games branded "playstation 3" to run on the playstation 3, and they've basically announced they'll do the same for Blu-Ray movies.

If you are so dissatisfied with Sony's product offerings and services then you should stop buying new PS3 games.

That was part of my point. A lot of people are acting pissed off at Sony's behavior but they keep on buying their products and supporting their business. How else do you expect Sony to respond to a consumer base that is continuing to buy their products?

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[dave562]

It sucked for the first two weeks but the mind has this wonderful ability to adapt. Besides, if I really needed a keyboard and mouse I could hook them up to the PS3. I don't, so I haven't. The inconvenience of having to adapt to a new control setup was minor compared to the game ruining lameness of aimbots.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[iainl]

Then why don't they have a computer in the room with the big telly?

Because it's another bunch of hardware to spend money on, and they already got a 360 for Halo 3 / Rock Band / Crackdown / Whatever else? That's my reasoning, anyway.

XNA isn't ideal, no. But as a developer I'd suggest that doing a 360 port may well be worth your while financially, that's all.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[BlackBloq]

I'd trade all the mods for a wall-hack proof/aimbot proof system. I really could care less if I can put my buddies head on a bad guy or make flares do damage or create a werewolf TC. I've been on 5 TC crews and I gotta say it's pretty lame. Steam and Garry's mod are enough. You want to mod STAY ON THE PC/MAC. I know it would be nice if xbox all of a sudden would boot windows 7 but that's a pipe dream. Imagine if you could use the processors you bought!

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[tepples]

I'd suggest that doing a 360 port may well be worth your while financially

So how do I automatically translate standard C++ to the verifiably type-safe subset of C++/CLI or vice versa so that when I make a change to the physics or AI on one platform, the change is reflected on the other platform after a recompile?

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Dreadrik]

You don't need a closed platform to deal with wallhackers and aimbots.

Steam is not a closed platform? What bothers me more with steam than a console is that it has the privilege to mess with everything on my computer, even though it is not even remotely related to gaming.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

An intern.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[exomondo]

Well that example is a little different. Apple has no right to kick people off of AT&T's network.

Of course, because I didn't say that, i said 'disable phone functionality'.

Sure, I would see that as acceptable. I don't see anything wrong with Apple/At&T making decisions about what devices and software packages can access their network.

oh bullshit you would, only an idiot would find it acceptable to purchase a product and have features removed whenever the manufacturer feels like.

Sony's situation is different. They cut off access to a free non-contractual service, and they had always reserved the right to change or modify their Terms of Use. Granted it was an advertised feature and the majority of users purchased their PS3's for that reason, but Sony still must have the right to say who can and can't access their networks. Right?

No, because it is an advertised feature, you can no longer use the product as advertised because they intentionally disabled it. They can't just arbitrarily deny access 'because they feel like it'. The ToS does not overrule the law, some people just don't understand that.

Re:What does this mean for cheats/aimbots?

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole reason I bought a PS3 was because it was a closed platform, and because it was a closed platform, it was harder to hack the games. I like playing FPS games and they are absolutely ruined as soon as you have to deal with wallhacks and aimbots. Will this new hack open the door to programs like that?

If ps3 games were worth buying maybe i'll agree with you but for the time being I'm tired of but suck ass game for ridiculous price!!!

Tag article slashvertisement

[TrisexualPuppy]

The forum link is broken. The video does not say anything about how they did it or how it works. It's merely a suggestion that the product does work and then is a link to where to buy it.

Nothing to see here.

Re:Tag article slashvertisement

[Anonymous Coward]

It's hard to tell, the main page for that website indicates they have been slashdotted... We can't exactly check for proof or disprove it while the page is down :p

Re:Tag article slashvertisement

[Mad Leper]

Yeah, this is quite obviously a fake. For a PS3 hack to suddenly appear out of nowhere and a rumored $170 fee for the USB stick just stinks of rip-off.

The PS3 has resisted cracking for over three years, even the great Geohot tried and failed to even make a dent. The fact that it's been impossible to play cracked games on the PS3 has worked the pirate community into such a tizzy that it's likely we'll see more scams like this in the future.

Re:Tag article slashvertisement

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you dim? The front page says the forum is struggling to cope with the massive load it's been under for the last day, and that was before it made /. front page and other "news" sites.

go you youtube and look at ozmodchips.com's channel, they have 3 vids up. Which you can make your own mind up whether they're fake scammers or for real. They've been around commercially for a long time, so they actually have credibility, but that doesn't mean anything if they can make a fast buck and leg it.

Re:Tag article slashvertisement

[Anonymous Coward]

Are YOU dim? Did they just let you out of the group home?
 
It's OBVIOUS that they have been slashdotted, but whoever submitted this didn't bother putting in any relevant information. He could have at least made a couple of links and a brief description of how they hacked it. Get a grip on reality, stupid bloke.

Re:Tag article slashvertisement

[richy freeway]

ozmodchips are selling it. They're a reputable company. If this is fake I'll eat my hat.

Re:Tag article slashvertisement

[Khyber]

"even the great Geohot ripped off other people's work and failed to make a dent"

FTFY. Trace over-current spiking was my idea.

I'm betting the USB stick does the same thing but with some other automated software, because the data line on the USB ports runs down that same trace. That trace is the direct vulnerability past the hypervisor.

Re:Tag article slashvertisement

[TrisexualPuppy]

Care to explain how this works? Similar to glitching in DTV cards?

Re:Tag article slashvertisement

[Anonymous Coward]

We are all waiting for more information, but this looks more like the real deal than any of the other scams that came before

Re:Tag article slashvertisement

[Khyber]

VERY similar. I've done the same thing to my TomTom so I could drop in map updates since my particular model doesn't work with the mapshare community.

This is a fallback from the PS3 debug systems, which required a hardware key. The data trace has a nearly direct pathway to the hypervisor, thus making it the most vulnerable route to attack.

Re:Tag article slashvertisement

[Anonymous Coward]

So Geohot's hack to get LV0 access did not make a dent??... I would say it helped out quite a bit with memorydumps...
And, according to a few different pages with varying trustability, it seems that it's actually geohot's hack that has enabled the guy's to analyse the code that does the usb-verification stuff...

And the PS3 has not resisted cracking for over three years... there has been many things that have come and gone.. due to fw updates from sony.....

And not clearly fake.. There are quite a few "famous" people that has "approved" it... the problem is more that you will never know when it stops working... And you can probably forget all about PSN, atleast for now, since the PS3 will send info to Sony that the machine is running the backup manager and that will enable them to block you off PSN....

What i hope for is a possibility to run unsigned code with full HW access... Linux + real 3D drivers + XBMC would be really nice...

What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Superken7]

Can't help but point out that this wouldn't have happened if Sony hadn't decided to yank the Boot Other OS option.

why? Can somebody please explain? the linked site seems down so maybe that's what I'm missing.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[netsavior]

Can't help but point out that this wouldn't have happened if Sony hadn't decided to yank the Boot Other OS option.

why? Can somebody please explain? the linked site seems down so maybe that's what I'm missing.

because nobody uses mod-chips to pirate games, they only use them to boot linux and run homebrew, since computers are so expensive and PS3s are so cheap, this is the only option that some people have. There aren't many pieces of consumer electronics that can run linux, you know.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Mad-Mage1]

the recent push to "crack" the PS3 OS was due to the removal of that function, which Sony did to try to prevent the cracking of their OS. Oh, the circular eddies of irony that feed our world :D

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

simple, before they yanked that option you could make your own software (yea very limited but you could do it), they decided to be little pricks about it, piss everyone off and remove that option, people still wanted to use their own software and so they broke the console, before no one was messing with it (nearly 5 years now?)

now if the ps2 and psp were not proof enough that sony's security is a total fucking joke here is a usb dongle that is a modchip

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Mooga]

Sony claimed that they removed the Boot Other OS options to prevent this type of hacking.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't help but point out that this wouldn't have happened if Sony hadn't decided to yank the Boot Other OS option.

why? Can somebody please explain? the linked site seems down so maybe that's what I'm missing.

because nobody uses mod-chips to pirate games, they only use them to boot linux and run homebrew, since computers are so expensive and PS3s are so cheap, this is the only option that some people have. There aren't many pieces of consumer electronics that can run linux, you know.

Most of the pirates don't have the technical abilities to hack a console. The people who do have the technical ability and inclination to hack a console, won't bother if they can tinker with it themselves without bypassing the security, which OtherOS allowed them to do. By removing OtherOS, they were basically asking the people with the skills, ability and inclination to bypass their security so that they could put another OS back on.

The initial heavy lifting to hack the original XBox, 360 and Wii were done by people trying to put Linux on them.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Superken7]

OK, that might very well be so, and it would make sense. The irony would just be unbearable. At least we can laugh at sony now.

Although this "news" does not even mention if booting linux is possible at this point, this just highlights how it is possible to pirate games - which is somewhat confusing.
Of course if they can boot games its possible they have enough control that they can boot other OS... but no details are mentioned.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wooosh...

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Trevelyan]

Homebrew scene != Pirate scene

The homebrew guys are generally more motivated and talented then the pirates. Almost all console hacks come from the homebrew guys so that they can run their own stuff (and linux).

The pirates tend to take homebrew code and use it to run pirated games.

The entire time that PS2 had the "Other OS" option it was not cracked, because the homebrew community could already run their stuff. Compare that to XBOX and WII both of which have been broken a long time ago. As soon as Sony closed off the homebrew community, the inevitable would happen.

Of course its not so black and white, there is overlap between homebrew and pirates, but not as much as you might assume. Take a look at TeamTwizzers long campaign against pirates from using their code. They even tried in the beginning to have a dialogue with Nintendo about ways to support homebrew and keep the pirates out.

Going back to PS2; even with the "Other OS" option the advanced graphic features were locked, so homebrew games could never take full advantage of the hardware (neither could Other OS be used for pirate games). Some months ago a way was found for full hardware access, and not long after that Sony reacted by removing the Other OS feature.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Conspiracy_Of_Doves]

Yeah, they should be watching reality TV like a normal person.

Frickin' normals

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[TejWC]

It is because of the "order of operations" that is required for the pirates to run pirated games:

Step 1 is for a "hacker" to figure out how to run arbitrary code on the console.

Step 2 is for a "homebrewer" to figure out how to use information from step 1 to make the console run existing/ported applications (or their own application/game).

Step 3 is for a "pirate" to use information from step 2 to make the console play copied games.

The basic idea is that the "pirates" rely on the "hacker" to pirate games. Many people believe that the "hackers" and "homebrewers" were content with the "Other OS" option so they never bothered to try to bypass it which delayed the pirates. Now, with the "Other OS" option gone, the hackers took an alternate and illegal route (as this article implies, using a USB dongle) to run their arbitrary code and now it appears that PS3 has a piracy issue. People can speculate that if Sony kept the "Other OS" option, the "hackers" would never have gone this route and the "pirates" would have nothing to piggy-back on. People like Geohot believe this would happen eventually and the removal of "Other OS" simply catalyzed piracy. Personally, I believe if Sony kept the "Other OS" option, they would have gotten another 3 years before piracy, at which point they would have been looking into their next generation console anyway.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[marcansoft]

The PS3 was secure through obscurity (besides any actual security present), much like the Wii was in its infancy (Wii drivechips notwithstanding, those are a whole different ballgame). Obscurity works a lot better than security for consoles, because they are big, complex systems that inevitably have holes. Obscurity is useful up until the first hack is published, which is when people finally get to poke at dumps of your software and expose your bugs. The more you can delay that from happening, the better. The Wii did a good job of this by encrypting and signing every piece of data on Wii game discs, for example. There were bugs, but nobody could figure them out without access to decrypted binaries.

We don't know if someone involved in PS3 homebrew hacking had anything to do with this, but it's certain that whoever did this at the very least used techniques developed as a result of the Other OS remioval during development. Specifically, until the Other OS fiasco happened, there was no way to dump PS3 software and analyze it for exploits. Now there is.

Both the Wii and the PS3 obscurity-breaking hacks were almost identical: RAM glitching to escalate privileges from an unprivileged mode in order to access secure areas. The Twiizer Attack on the Wii glitched the RAM address lines in order to dump secure software and keys from insecure GameCube mode, and geohot's PS3 exploit used RAM glitching in order to make the hypervisor unwillingly give you read/write access to secure RAM while in insecure Other OS mode. When software is obscure, hardware is the only way to go. This Wii attack paved the way for Wii software exploits, and certainly this PS3 USB device is based upon exploits uncovered by dumping via the memory glitching exploits released earlier this year after Sony pulled Other OS.

So yes, Sony basically asked for this by pulling Other OS and angrying legitimate hackers who used Other OS, and now they got what they asked for. I'm just glad some piracy company did it first instead of repeating the story of the Wii where pirates piggyback on homebrew.

The one sad, sad thing is that this is called "PS3 jailbreak". Jailbreak is a very specific term that describes breaking out of a filesystem jail (e.g. on the iPhone), and it's being used on the PS3 purely for "brand recognition". This will just make people associate jailbreaks with piracy.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[damien_kane]

why? Can somebody please explain? the linked site seems down so maybe that's what I'm missing.

While one of my siblings states that "nobody uses mod-chips to pirate games", this isn't exactly true.
The first modders aren't doing it to pirate games. They simply want to write their own apps and run their own code on a different platform, or they want to fool around with the hardware and learn how it works, without having to pay 10s of thousands of dollars for development machines.

So, they build mods that allow running of unsigned code. This was true for the Wii, the 360, NDS, etc.
If there is a closed system, there exists somewhere in the world someone with the knowledge and will to break it, if for no other reason than to say they did.

Previously, with the ability to run linux natively on the PS3, these homebrew developers had the ability to code for a cell, and rather cheaply (at the cost of a PS3 and a keyboard). Granted, they didn't have access to the graphics capabilities, neither the hypervisor, but they could run anything they themselves coded for the cell architecture, without being hassled by Sony.

One person got close to breaking into the hypervisor through a bug that Sony either couldn't, or didn't want to spend time to, fix.
He did this so that he could develop homebrew applications that took advantage of the graphics capabilities, mostly. Pirating games wasn't his primary drive.
In response, Sony simply removed access to "Other OS" completely.

With no outlet to run their unsigned code, hackers have made a push to break the system so they can again do so with updated firmware.

As stated in another thread, the pirate community just waits until someone breaks the system (without any ill intent), and then duplicates that exploit (and in the case of a hardware mod, usually capitalizes on it).

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[BitZtream]

The recent addition of all six PS3 Linux users to the effort probably had no effect.

Image for a second a peice of paper, there are two overlapping circles on it. One represents the people who want to run Linux on the PS3 and are trying to hax0r it. This circle is about the size of a quarter.

The other circle is for the people who want to pirate games and cheat. The diameter of this circle is roughly 50 meters.

Running Linux now is nothing more than a side effect. Removing the Other OS option didn't 'push' much because that majority of the actual effort was there before the OtherOS option disappeared.

If this was for Linux, 'backup functionality' wouldn't be one of the first features on the thing.

You guys really need to get some perspective and soda. You REALLY need to realize that not everyone drools over Linux the same way you guys do, there are in fact people in the world who do this for practical reasons. Not just so the can have a white on black text console on their TV screen which their uneducated friends find impressive.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Watch the video, it's from an aussie, he even plugs the website in the video ozmodchips.com . Aussies are very into the pirate scene. Can you blame them when they can't get 18+ games. LOL.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the most lame excuse of trolling I've seen in a long time.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Superken7]

I know, thats why this story is surprising, because its exactly the opposite as what you just said.

Otherwise they would have at demoed booting linux at least.
Also, I have not read any text of the official release so I don't know if they mention any of this, but this might very well just be coincidence. Or maybe not..

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[tepples]

since computers are so expensive and PS3s are so cheap

I understand your post to be sarcastic. But a PC with a gaming video card that can display on both an HDTV and the SDTV that one already owns isn't cheap. It's especially not cheap if you try to buy a "home theater PC" that comes in a high-wife-acceptance-factor case so that it will fit next to a TV.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[somersault]

Yeah I found it rather sad when he was like "now this is what you've all been waiting for!", I thought he was going to load Other OS - but instead he demonstrates that you can now pirate games.. what an asshole..

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that the only reason that people by these mod chips is to play burned games. To claim this has anything to do with homebrew or being able to install Linux is naïveté to the highest degree.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Superken7]

I agree with all you have said but one thing: if it were the hackers who have enabled this hack they would have demoed booting OtherOS, downgrading or whatever.
But clearly it is the pirates here who have done the hack from start to finish. Unless they borrowed it from other "homebrew" guys who were keeping it in private..

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[maxwell demon]

Yeah, and every day many crimes are done with guns, which clearly proves that guns only exist in order to enable crime. Obviously the inventor of the gun was a criminal. Right?

Of course, as soon as the mod chip exists, pirates will use it. And it may well be that they outnumber the other users. But that doesn't tell you the slightest bit about the motivation of the person who originally created the mod chip.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[WhitetailKitten]

The initial heavy lifting to hack the original XBox, 360 and Wii were done by people trying to put Linux on them.

I'm going to back up AC on this one, at least with respect to the Wii. Team Twiizers, the team of hackers (as in, tinkering, not cheaters) have released multiple tools to not only allow and facilitate non-pirate homebrew software to run, they also actually have made efforts to fix critical flaws in Nintendo's design of the Wii. This includes ways to recover a bricked console, which came into play when Nintendo's own official system updates (designed to block homebrew and piracy indiscriminately) were sloppy to the point of being capable of bricking unmodified Wiis.

Team Twiizers also go out of their way to specifically discourage and hamper piracy, including making their software run upside-down on-screen if you've hacked your Wii so much that you must be using it for piracy. They really want to avoid large-scale piracy, because it'll just give Nintendo the incentive to try and lock the Wii back down, depriving everyone of the non-piracy uses for homebrew. They'll happily help with installing Linux on your Wii, and there are guides for using it as a media center, a ScummVM host, and even a VNC client. You can also emulate pretty much every game console in history up to the PS1, as well as MAME, but finding roms (and whatever trouble that might cause) is up to you. However, they make it clear that discussions of piracy are unwelcome.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just put together a replacement PVR box with all that you describe, with the exception of a blu-ray player - $350. Now, I really don't care about the case - because you really don't need to see the box. Hidden out of sight, the only thing my wife worries about is where the remote is.

That may not be as cheap as a PS3 now - but either way.... meh.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[kg8484]

I think you are missing the point of the argument that others are making. Let's take your two circles. The first is the size of a quarter and represents users that want to run Linux, and the second circle is the number of people who want to pirate games and that is 50 meters in diameter. However, you will find that not everyone in either circle has the technical proficiency to actually do the hacking, but the average technical aptitude of people in the Linux circle is far greater than the mean aptitude in the piracy circle. The real comparison needs to be between the people who want to run Linux, have the technical ability to do the hacking and are willing to invest the time to do it versus to the people whose motivation is piracy. The argument that is made is that the Linux circle now shrinks to the size of a dime, whereas you would need a microscope to see the piracy circle.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[mcgrew]

Can't help but point out that this wouldn't have happened if Sony hadn't decided to yank the Boot Other OS option. why? Can somebody please explain? the linked site seems down so maybe that's what I'm missing.

"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it further." -Darth Vader, The Empire Strikes Back

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[mlts]

Minor addition: There is nothing illegal about "jailbreaking" a device as the courts decided a couple weeks ago. The illegal acts are committed by the pirates, not the people who get the code working, nor the homebrewers.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no comparison to guns, guns are meant to kill.

A better analogy would be drugs. What starts off as a possibly a "cool and clever" way to get high, suddenly causes all the componets to produce your high to become locked down from all the clueless idiots killing themselves on it. Had you never let out the secret, you'd still be able to get high.

This mod chip is only designed to pirate games. Look at the video again.

The only legitimate reason I've EVER seen to run backups is when your kid is a god damn hell child who breaks everything. Cost of PS= 300$, cost of replacing your entire PS3 game library = 1000$'s. In which case you're letting the kid destroy the easier to replace part.

Everywhere else, it's just people not wanting to pay for things, they borrow shit from their friends, or rent it, copy it, maybe even return it. Why do you think there are "we don't accept returns on opened merchandise" at stores that sell software?

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[tepples]

Just put together

PS3 comes put together. How much does the labor to put together a PC cost?

Now, I really don't care about the case - because you really don't need to see the box.

If you walk around to the side of the TV, you see the case hidden behind the TV, and that's where the wife acceptance factor drops through the floor. Google Products says an HTPC case alone costs $100 and OEM Windows costs $100, so that doesn't leave much room in your $350 budget for the motherboard, CPU, RAM, video card, hard drive, and optical drive.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[WhitetailKitten]

Except that the only reason that people by these mod chips is to play burned games. To claim this has anything to do with homebrew or being able to install Linux is naïveté to the highest degree.

Because there's no way someone would modchip a Wii (before software homebrew was refined to its current pretty-damn-easy standard) in order to plug a mass-storage USB device in and use their console as both a home media center and a game machine. That could never, ever happen. It's inconceivable.

Oh, wait. A simple Google search returns a bunch of sites that want to sell you the (free) homebrew software (in violation of copyright--yes, Team Twiizers' homebrew software is original, not stolen from Nintendo, so they technically hold copyright), and they tout being able to use your Wii to play back pretty much any type of video or sound file VLC can understand. You lose. Player 1 insert coin.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[qoncept]

The point was, saying it wouldn't have happened if only the pirates were trying is straight up retarded. Of course it would have happened.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Dishevel]

I need mod points. You tell the truth sir.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[WhitetailKitten]

The one sad, sad thing is that this is called "PS3 jailbreak". Jailbreak is a very specific term that describes breaking out of a filesystem jail (e.g. on the iPhone), and it's being used on the PS3 purely for "brand recognition". This will just make people associate jailbreaks with piracy.

The pirates probably don't care; sure, they might not be able to update when Sony releases a fix (memories of System Menu 4.2 before Bannerbomb v2), but the PS3 library up to this point and the near future just became available to them. That'll keep them busy while someone reverse-engineers or finds a new exploit around whatever Sony does about this, I guess.

Also, thank you and the rest of Team Twiizers for your hard work, marcan.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[TeknoHog]

computers are so expensive and PS3s are so cheap, this is the only option that some people have. There aren't many pieces of consumer electronics that can run linux, you know.

You can run Linux on any ugly x86 box, but this is not enough for everybody. I am interested in the possibilities of the Cell processor, and the nice and quiet case would be a great bonus. If your only argument is "running Linux", then you can have my old Pentium MMX box and knock yourself out. It runs Linux, and it should run Windows as well, so obviously it should cover everyone's computing needs.

I also think that having a nice CPU limited to playing closed games (a political limitation, not technical) is a hideous waste of resources that ought to be a criminal offense.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Dishevel]

You need real thinking ability to get this, but I will try anyway.

Your paper is correct. Where your logic issue comes into direct conflict with reality is your assumption that the large circle contains within it anyone capable of a real hack of the PS3. It dose not. On the other hand a high percentage of those in your quarter sized circle can. They did not hack because they had what they wanted. Now that Sony has removed it they did the work to "Fix the situation".

Now that 50 meter circle you were talking about gets involved. They capitalize on the work done by the geeks and give to the masses what they want. "Free Beer!". Bad move for Sony.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Jonny_eh]

Linux is free. I can't believe I needed to state that on Slashdot.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Dishevel]

TeamTwizzers? Lol.

That name plus gaming on Nintendo just begs for gay jokes.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't show him pirating a game just showing how to backup games so there are several of them on a computer without having to boot different disks and running the shitty update thing the PS3 has.

Makes sense if there are two PS3s in a household so buying 2 of the same game so you can play over lan is pretty shit.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Jonny_eh]

The Xbox 360 has not been jailbroken (on current firmware). It's had its DVD firmware hacked to allow booting of pirated discs, but you cannot jailbreak the 360 to run unsigned code.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[commando_jim]

The way I understood the current situation is the following:

Image for a second a piece of paper, there are two overlapping circles on it. One represents the people who want to run Linux on the PS3 and are trying to hax0r it. This circle is about the size of a quarter.

The other circle is for the people who want to pirate games and cheat AND HAVE THE TECHNICAL SOPHISTICATION TO FIGURE IT OUT THEMSELVES. The diameter of this circle is roughly the same as the Linux camp.

Basically, you have a very small group of people, who's only motivation for hacking the platform is Sony's removal of the boot other OS function. This group of people then gives away the plans for their hack, and thus enables all the people from your 50m circle who can't hack a PS3 on their own.

Claiming that the Linux crowd is irrelevant here, ignores the fact that one motivated person can release an exploit which will work for everyone, and I think the Linux crowd has a much higher ratio of people who might find those exploits than the crowd of wall-hack/aimbot enthusiasts.

Cheers

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[MistabewM]

All I want this for is a good port of XBMC. I buy the games I like and am not interested in pirating anything. But as a HTPC the ps3 has so much much potential it is a waste as just a game console with its currently lacking media capabilities. And it would let me get rid of my current HTPC which eats a crazy amount of power in a year.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[X.25]

You guys really need to get some perspective and soda. You REALLY need to realize that not everyone drools over Linux the same way you guys do, there are in fact people in the world who do this for practical reasons. Not just so the can have a white on black text console on their TV screen which their uneducated friends find impressive.

Yeah, some people drool over ability to find MD5 collision on network of PS3s. One of the greatest security related things in this decade, that resulted in obtaining a valid CA cert. They must be pirates too. Or maybe you're just too dumb to realize that there is shitload of people drooling over running Linux (because Linux is easily accessible) on anything they can get their hands on? It is FUN. I know it's hard for you to understand, but other people are not you. I mean, you realize that various modern TVs, for example, are running on Linux, and there are people out there who will eventually get their own Linux 'distro' on their TV? Just because they want/can?

I am amazed how many idiots think they know something about what people do with their hardware, or why. And they still feel like anyone needs their input. Sigh...

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Joe Snipe]

I think it still would have been rooted. There is a lot of people out there still looking for revenge from when Sony rooted their system.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

The recent addition of all six PS3 Linux users

hehe.. I see wut u did thar. For comedic effect you pulled a laughably absurd low number out of your ass implying that no one uses Linux anyway so who cares.

Clever. Except for the fact that that's only been done about 56 hundred eleventy thousand(*) times. And every one of those was funnier than yours, douchebag.

* See what I did there?

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[tibit]

It's not anyone's fault (other than Sony) that their design is so messed up that running untrusted firmware would allow piracy. They messed up big time, that's all. The design could have been such that access the encrypted discs could have been limited to trusted firmware, and anything else wouldn't. There is no theoretical reason as to why third-party OS running on PS3 would allow piracy of any sort. The real reason is that Sony didn't get people who know crypto on their design team, and didn't design their hardware in a way that would disallow 3rd party (untrusted) code from being able to read encrypted games.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[tibit]

Mod parent up!

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet the only 360 hack does not allow running unsigned code, but rather tricks the DVD drive into thinking it's got a legitimate disc in it. That sort of hack is fundamentally incapable of being used for anything except piracy.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[LordLimecat]

you can get a $50 video card that can display on an HDTV....

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Could you please at least keep your smug superiority to yourself, even if you think your message is clever? "Drools over linux", "uneducated friends"... that's just empty talk that interests no-one and annoys at least me.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Nursie]

Well then you've missed a legit reason. The reason O bought HDAdvance for the PS2 and put the hacked firmware on my PSP - it's far more convenient to just run from a hard drive than it is to screw around with discs.

On the PS2 the load times were a lot faster and I didn't end up with a stack of discs and cases by the tv.
On the PSP the load times are faster, the battery lasts (about 25%) longer and I don't have to take a stack of UMDs on the plane.
On the PS3 all my music is available from the XMB because I run mediatomb on a home server. Movies are there too.

Why not games?

I'd love to get this just so I could put the games on the drive then put the discs and their boxes away in a cupboard somewhere. Much tidier, much more convenient.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[luther349]

well after they remove the other os option the people with the know how said fine we will brake the security and restore it. this is step 1 and unfortunately it also opens the piracy door. so there showing the security is now broken. next step is restoring the other os function.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Raenex]

Going back to PS2

PS3. It's right in the title of this story.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the otherOS was in there so they (Sony) can get the UK/Europe tax breaks for selling a "computer" not a games console?

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, that is an absolutely AMAZING amount of arrogance. Congratulations.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

but not the means - piracy still is the main agenda since is the only one paying dividends. don't be naive; it all comes down to money.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Rayonic]

The one sad, sad thing is that this is called "PS3 jailbreak". Jailbreak is a very specific term that describes breaking out of a filesystem jail (e.g. on the iPhone), and it's being used on the PS3 purely for "brand recognition". This will just make people associate jailbreaks with piracy.

I thought it was when you break your device free of the parent company's control. (e.g. Sony, Apple, etc.) Mostly for the purpose of running unsigned code. So I'd say the PS3 and iPhone are perfectly analogous.

Whereas the Xbox 360 piracy hack isn't Jailbreaking, since it doesn't allow you to run unsigned code. It just circumvents the disc copy protection.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Rayonic]

Also, since when isn't iPhone jailbreaking associated with piracy? There's been plenty of stories lately about developers complaining about rampant piracy of their iPhone apps. Let's not discuss the merits of those claims, but it does show that "jailbreak" isn't some pristine term.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[X0563511]

At least we can laugh at Sony now.

Oh, believe me... we've been laughing for some time now.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Homebrew

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[ravenshrike]

If guns are meant to kill, than well over 70% of the guns in the US have failed in their purpose since they haven't killed anything, not even a chipmunk.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a. your wrong, they're not expensive (at least not PS3 brand expensive), and b. your a pussy.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[EnglishTim]

In what way was their security 'security through obscurity'?

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[greg1104]

The "jailbreak" terminology came from chroot jail, which is a UNIX feature that constricts a user to run with limited ability to see files on the system. Since this was essentially the way the iPhone was being protected from hacking, it was an appropriate term to use for breaking out of their form of jail. It's not technically correct at all as a way to describe the Sony hacks, but that won't stop people from adopting it anyway because it sounds cool. (See the mainstream use of "hackers" rather than "crackers" as a precedent for bad terminology winning when it sounds more bad-ass)

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[greg1104]

Also, since when isn't iPhone jailbreaking associated with piracy?

I know more people who have done jailbreaking for things like tethering than piracy. Regardless, when you've got the Library of Congress ruling that it's a legitimate behavior, that's further distanced the two.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Errr... HDLoader. You lose. ;)

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Schadrach]

This goes back to one of those things I've always wondered: Why do the console makers not release a "homebrew developer's kit" for their consoles? As in a kit that runs on a PC and contains a compiler and basic libraries (preferably with the same API as the *real* dev kit, minus the parts you specifically don't let the homebrew kit produce). Put a restriction in the firmware that prevents a homebrew app from reading files from a directory that isn't a subdirectory of it's own, and blocks it from accessing the disc drive/cartridge slot/however you would load software in the machine otherwise.

With sufficient capability to create properly signed executables for their respective machines and properly install them on an SD/Memory Stick/USB card/drive so the console will recognize them, maybe with a mandatory "This was created with the [company] Homebrew Software kit. This software has not been approved or licensed by [company] and is not licensed for commercial distribution. If you have paid money for this software please contact [company] at [phone number]."

Actually, bake that warning screen into the firmware (along with all other provisos and restrictions) and have the homebrew compiler use a different signing key than licensed applications to differentiate the two.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Schadrach]

Heh, I more or less failed regarding the PSP -- I grabbed one of the Peacewalker bundles, and then went to check what was on PSN, forcing an update from 6.2 to 6.3. All before even really looking into hacking them at all, and before I really thought about how perfect a PSP would be to run SNES9x on.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[KovaaK]

The obscurity is that the inner workings of the software were hidden. Even if there was a glaring back-door to the system, no one would know about it. With the RAM glitches he was talking about, people got a chance to look into the software and find out where potential holes existed. Said RAM glitches removed the obscurity.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Schadrach]

Or, more likely you've got a set in the overlap between the two, including a not insignificant number who would fall in "I want to homebrew and Linux etc, and would pirate if it's not too difficult but I'm not willing to invest time/effort to do so if I've got homebrew/linux. Now I need a hack to do it, and now that I've made a hack how do I spread the word/turn a profit on my time/effort? Hai pirates, I can haz moniez for donglez plz?"

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Khyber]

"The recent addition of all six PS3 Linux users to the effort probably had no effect."

Six, eh? Well, let's see. I think the USAF is a bit larger than that, as well as many research groups using clustered PS3s for processing.

"You REALLY need to realize that not everyone drools over Linux the same way you guys do,"

The government and many universities disagree with you. Otherwise they'd have never bought a games console in the first place for the express purpose of running Linux on it.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[CronoCloud]

You mean like Sony's Net Yaroze?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_Yaroze

They decided it was easier and cheaper to just port Linux or have a hypervisor make the hardware appear more like a normal PC than do specialized hardware, at least for hobbyists.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Vanderhoth]

Going out on a limb here. I would assume it's because Sony doesn't get a cut of money for homebrew games and it would suck for some random guy playing around to make a homebrew game that 1) out does a game people are paying $60+ for and 2) have it become more popular than commercial games. That aside I imagine the commercial developers wouldn't be too happy with Sony if any random person could get a dev kit the developers probably play thousands for initially plus huge licensing fees.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[CronoCloud]

Why won't this falsehood just die already. WRONG! It was YaBasic on the EU launch PS2's that was the attempt, not Linux on the PS2 or PS3 which postdate the removal of the special EU tariff.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Rich0]

Who makes money from piracy? The ad revenue on a warez site is pretty small potatoes. If you're talking about some major producer in asia mass-producing discs, then they probably could do that already by copying the encrypted discs at the physical layer.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Rich0]

I'd say their problem is that getting a machine to run some software and not other software is essentially an impossible problem to solve, when the person trying to defeat your protection has physical access to your machine.

Sure, you can make it hard, but sooner or later somebody will come up with a workaround. If your decryption keys are stored in the hardware, they can be retrieved from the hardware. If your verification keys are stored in the hardware, they can be modified. Your code can also be modified in arbitrary ways, as can any circuitry stored in the CPU or any other component in the system.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[dangitman]

The pirates tend to take homebrew code and use it to run pirated games.

So, you're saying homebrew computing is a gateway to piracy? Clearly, then, we must outlaw homebrew computing. It should carry even higher penalties than piracy, because every homebrew computing enthusiast represents thousands of new pirates, and billions of dollars in losses. I suggest the death penalty for such serious crimes against commerce.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Schadrach]

Not exactly. All the current gen systems (PS3, 360, PSP, DSi, Wii) have either a USB port, SD slot, or MemoryStick Pro Duo slot that they support running properly signed software from already, so no need for custom hardware, just firmware that recognizes the "homebrew" signed software as valid and executable under a more restricted environment.

I'm saying something to the tune of a downloadable kit that includes the "I am homebrew" cert, a mostly complete API (missing only features that the firmware locks hombrew-signed software out of) and a compiler.

The firmware should of course display warnings to the effect of "this software is not licensed for commercial sale, this software has not been licensed or approved for use or sale by (manufacturer), and (manufacturer) is not responsible for any harm caused", etc, etc, etc.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Schadrach]

License agreement to use the "Homebrew kit" and homebrew executables are signed with a different cert than commercial ones. One of the terms being very specifically that anything made with the homebrew kit is not for commercial distribution, including a firmware embedded splash screen with all the appropriate warnings on each boot of the software. Also restrict anything signed as homebrew from doing certain specific things (like reading from an optical drive) to make loaders and the like more difficult.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[tibit]

Umm, no, that's not true. There are plenty of crypto chips that clearly show what you're saying to be untrue. As long as you can't get access to the private keys, and you cannot get access to the plaintext firmware, you're out of luck. It's fairly easy these days to get a custom chip design that incorporates the CPU, secure memory, and whatnot, so that whatever you do outside of the chip won't cause any security breaches.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

ScummVM ... emulate pretty much every game console in history up to the PS1, as well as MAME ... discussions of piracy are unwelcome.

Yeah :)

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Rich0]

It's fairly easy these days to get a custom chip design that incorporates the CPU, secure memory, and whatnot, so that whatever you do outside of the chip won't cause any security breaches.

Sure, but at no point did I restrict attacks to staying outside of the chip. What happens if you slice it open and image it at the atomic level?

Sure, that isn't easy to do, and it isn't possible to do yet with arbitrary accuracy. However, eventually this will be possible (within the limits of the uncertainty principle, which of course is also a lower-limit on the density of storage anyway so you can't hide behind this either).

My point is that these kinds of schemes have a fundamental flaw. It is a cat and mouse game, but one which those trying to hide data on an embedded system are certain to lose. Any system you devise will only be secure for a limited period of time. Now, from a practical standpoint nobody uses consoles more than 10 years after they're introduced (at least not in a way that is market-relevant). You can certainly delay at attack on your hardware as a result. However, you cannot prevent it forever, for in giving the customer a console and disc that works offline, you've given them the keys to the kingdom as it were.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[tibit]

There is no way to slice a properly designed and certified crypto chip open while preserving the keys. By the time you open it up, the keys are gone. Those designs have been around for quite some time, and there are no known workaround for the current generation of those chips AFAIK. This is no game of cat and mouse -- with a properly designed platform, you'd need a theoretical breakthrough. Not even Moore's law will help you in the short term (think decades).

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Dreadrik]

the recent push to "crack" the PS3 OS was due to the removal of that function, which Sony did to try to prevent the cracking of their OS. Oh, the circular eddies of irony that feed our world :D

There was no "recent push" to crack the PS3. It has been a constant effort since the day of release 4 years ago. The reason Sony removed OtherOS was because of the first newsworthy breakthrough, even though it would have been highly unlikely that they would have succeeded that way.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Rich0]

Those designs have been around for quite some time, and there are no known workaround for the current generation of those chips AFAIK.

Again, no disputing any of this. However, sooner or later a solution will be found. If you just image the surface, remove one layer of atoms, image that, and keep going, sooner or later you'll have an atomic-level 3D map of the whole thing. No law of physics makes this impossible to do - we just lack the technology right now. Or, perhaps some technique will be designed to image the interior without cutting it open (x-rays, etc).

Agreed that there is no use for moore's law for breaking the crypto itself, but that is trying to go in the front door. Depending on the algorithm there might be a quantum solution at some point. However, computation isn't needed to just read the hardware right out of the ROM/flash.

Sooner or later the PS3 hardware will be cracked, most likely within our lifetimes.

Again, my point isn't that this is easy to do - only that it is possible to do. To convince me that it is impossible you'll need to show me a fundamental law of physics that prevents it - not just a lack of current technology.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[tibit]

Things still have to be practical to be practical ;)

As for removing things layer of atoms-at-a-time: current key protection is designed to cope with that. So assuming you were running a scanning probe system and pulling atoms one-at-a-time, eventually the key would self-destruct before you could get to the silicon. To overcome that, you'd need to manipulate atoms/molecules remotely (through billions of other layers of atoms). And the imaging would need to be done using something else than photons -- say if you'd have X-ray beam powerful enough to guide an atom manipulator in real-time, your key would be gone within seconds. The silicon is purposefully designed to thwart imaging attempts: a sufficient accumulated dose erases the key, and that's the end of that.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Rich0]

As I said, measures and countermeasures, cat and mouse...

Sooner or later, somebody will find a way. Then they'll come up with a harder chip to crack, and then somebody will crack that...

From a theoretical standpoint, time is on the side of the crackers I think. You can't give somebody the ability to play a game in a self-contained system that they physically possess without also giving them the ability to copy the game, manipulate it, etc. Consoles aren't magic - they're machines.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[EnglishTim]

That's not security by obscurity; that's just not sharing your source code with the world. They rely on encryption and authentication for their security; if they relied on obscurity they just wouldn't have told anybody how their system worked and it would have been hacked within a couple of weeks.

I can't see that it's in Sony's interests to share their code as they are the only people who use that system. There are not going to be many parties who would examine the system with a mind to assist Sony with their security whereas there are a lot of parties who can profit from finding weaknesses in the system's security.

This is quite different from widely-used security systems where there are many people who benefit from the security system's integrity.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[tibit]

I don't know of any widely used secure key storage chip/die solutions being cracked. I'd welcome links. Nuff said.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Rich0]

Neither do I, and I never claimed that anything widely used today have been. Perhaps some have, perhaps it has never happened.

I still assert that it is possible, and if you want to assert that it is impossible I'll need a reference to a conclusive experiment or at least widely accepted theory of physics that demonstrates that this is the case. And I don't mean evidence that one particular mode of attack has failed against one particular piece of technology. I mean evidence that a particular piece of technology is theoretically secure against any possible attack.

This is provably the case for the one-time-pad, and it is generally accepted that quantum crypto is secure based on the laws of physics as we currently understand them. However, neither of these technologies are applicable to secure storage.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[tibit]

Look, it's perfectly fine that it is theoretically possible to crack pretty much everything besides one-key pads and quantum cryptographic channels. I'm OK with that. What I was getting at was that Sony messed up for no good reason. I rest my case.

Re:What has this to do with sony yanking linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Try and find a cell-system that's cheaper than a PS3... cheapest one i have found is around 4 times the price of a PS3...
It (was) perfect for students and other people that just wanna play around with hardware that's not commonly found...

Another thing about beeing able to run unsigned code on this is to get full accesss to the GFX.. Ie enable 3D and get rid of the stupid framebuffer they have for linux.
Mediaplayer anyone.. Linux + XBMC on a system that's designed to sit in the livingroom..

That is nice!

[mobilemodding.info]

Nice! :)

The obvious fix from Sony...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony will disable all USB ports on the PS3 in the next firmware update.

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[Pojut]

Don't give them any ideas, clod!

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[damien_kane]

Sony will disable all USB ports on the PS3 in the next firmware update.

Disabling the USB ports would seriously piss off the rhythm game makers (Activition and RedOctane) and the third-party peripheral manufacturers. They don't want to do that.
No, instead they'll probably just disable any type of video output, to ensure that you're not playing pirated games.

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, first they'll manufacture PS3s with no USB ports for a year while vehemently denying plans to disable USB ports on older consoles.

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[Theoboley]

Which would, in turn, piss people off (namely myself) who use their ps3 as a media server with External HDDs attached for watching TV/Movies

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[Abstrackt]

Sony will disable all USB ports on the PS3 in the next firmware update.

This is Sony we're talking about: they'll probably just go nuclear and brick the whole console.

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[Skatox]

JAjaja best comment ever, sadly I think that Sony could do it

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[Anonymous Coward]

They already told me they won't do this when I complained about "Other OS" removal.

Quote from Playstation Consumer Services:
"There would not be able reason to remove the features of your PS3 System that you have mention, card readers USB ports or backwards compatibility. They are physical attributes that your PS3 System possesses and do not present a security threat as the option that Install other OS does in this case does."

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[Fumus]

They'll just switch to wireless.

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[Anonymous Coward]

Your poor phrasing of the question allowed them to spin the answer. Of course they won't remove your USB ports, that would require soldering irons and/or wire cutters. Disabling them, on the other hand...

Besides, this is the same Sony that spent the entire time between the release of the slim model and the April Fool's Day Massacre swearing that they wouldn't remove the Other OS option from older consoles.

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I'll doubt they'll do that, but they patch things to stop you performing this trick pretty fast. I wouldn't be surprised if it's done before the weekend.

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, well, when I phoned SONY tech support and told them I did not want to have the OtherOS feature removed from my system, they (and their supervisor) assured me that the update would only apply to slim consoles.
If there was a security issue, then SONY are obliged to address that issue and maintain the features they sold me. At the very least, they should either have to supply the OtherOS, or have the option to re-enable the OtherOS feature should the customer be comfortable with the level of "risk' the security feature poses.
SONY are a bunch of untrustworthy thieves, you absolutely cannot put any stock in what they say to you. They don't belong in an open market.
Personally, I'm glad to see a hack come out, especially if it leads to booting an OS on the machine again, but the preferred choice will be to force the thieves at SONY to uphold what they sold.

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[Warll]

My name is not clod you insensitive Shirley!

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[Anonymous Coward]

PS3 Firmware (v3.42) Update
The next system software update for the PlayStation 3 (PS3) system will be released on August 19, 2010 (JST), and will disable the USB ports that are available on all PS3 systems, launched in November 2006. Due to security concerns, Sony Computer Entertainment will remove the functionality through the 3.42 system software update.
In addition, disabling the USB ports will help ensure that PS3 owners will continue to have access to the broad range of gaming and entertainment content from SCE and its content partners on a more secure system.
Consumers and organizations that currently use the USB ports can choose not to upgrade their PS3 systems, although the following features will no longer be available;
* Ability to sign in to PlayStation Network and use network features that require signing in to PlayStation Network, such as online features of PS3 games and chat
* Playback of PS3 software titles or Blu-ray Disc videos that require PS3 system software version 3.42 or later
* Playback of copyright-protected videos that are stored on a media server (when DTCP-IP is enabled under Settings)
* Use of new features and improvements that are available on PS3 system software 3.42 or later
Additional information about PS3 firmware updates, including v3.42 (once it becomes available), can be found here: http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps3/index.htm

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[Roman Coder]

Don't call him Shirley.

Re:The obvious fix from Sony...

[Ant P.]

Nah, they'll remove the BD-ROM drive first and make you re-buy all your games as "DLC".

not hard for sony to fix this....

[metalmaster]

If im not mistaken, USB devices are configured with a hardware ID, so a firmware patch will come in no time that limits the recognized IDs to Sony peripherals and maybe a few consumer brand storage devices

Re:not hard for sony to fix this....

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are creating your own USB device, you can easily set the hardware ID to whatever you want, or even let it be programmable (like in the FTDI chips).

Re:not hard for sony to fix this....

[Maddog Batty]

If they do (which will break lots of things), the dongle will just use a valid id - this it trivial - and the merry-go-round will continue.

Re:not hard for sony to fix this....

[Nadaka]

And as the Palm Pre - iTunes syncing issue recently showed, devices can easily spoof the hardware id of another object.

Re:not hard for sony to fix this....

[Anonymous Coward]

Will not work long... too many users would complain that their devices stopped working. A blacklist wouldn't work either as the chip id could be "stolen" from a well known product or randomly generated...
That doesn't mean there is no other possibilities to prevent this kind of devices...

Re:not hard for sony to fix this....

[RichiH]

There is nothing that stops people from creating USB devices that can rewrite their own ID similar to how there is nothing to stop you from using a different MAC.

If that is the only line of defense, economic incentives for the crackers will make sure you can buy a v2 with "valid" Sony ID or simply a changeable one.

Re:not hard for sony to fix this....

[metalmaster]

we would eventually end up with the PS3 only allowing Sony peripherals. If it's done firmware side, the hackers will eventually find a way around it. A change in hardware might take a bit longer to figure out. I worked for a phone store a few years back, and some of our motorola models(with miniUSB jack) could only be charged using motorola brand chargers because of currency issues.

Re:not hard for sony to fix this....

[tepples]

Forge someone else's hardware ID and lose your USB patent license.

Re:not hard for sony to fix this....

[wbav]

Forge someone else's hardware ID and lose your USB patent license.

Only if you're producing consumer items. I know of at least 1 microprocessor platform that allows users to easily set the vid/pid for development and testing. Buy the chip, program it, and you're good to go.

Re:not hard for sony to fix this....

[Anonymous Coward]

Which the pirate company doesn't give a shit about.

They probably don't even have a USB license to begin with.

Re:not hard for sony to fix this....

[v1]

I worked for a phone store a few years back, and some of our motorola models(with miniUSB jack) could only be charged using motorola brand chargers because of currency issues.

And ipods/iphones are the same way. Sneaky drop resistors tweaking the voltage specs on the lines. (nothing digital, just a very basic analog "signature") But they did appear to have a legitimate reason for doing it, it communicates the amount of current the ipod can safely try to draw from the charger, allowing for both aftermarket quick and slow chargers without adding a lot of complexity/cost. (usb communications)

Re:not hard for sony to fix this....

[mlts]

Even more insidious:

Have the devices with the hardware ID have special functionality, similar to MagicGate memory sticks. In bygone times, the early Sony "MP3" [1] players would only work with special memory sticks which supported their encryption system.

[1]: Some were technically encrypted ATRAC3 players and would require transcoding. Others would directly encrypt the MP3 files without requiring the quality loss.

Re:not hard for sony to fix this....

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the USB Forum license. Besides, for this audience, there's a simple workaround: Deliver it with your own numbers, and let a third party provide a tool to change them. You're not responsible for your users.

Re:not hard for sony to fix this....

[Khyber]

"we would eventually end up with the PS3 only allowing Sony peripherals"

Not with all the advertising for Bluetooth and such. Sorry, you want that logo on your equipment, you have to play by that logo's rules.

Example - "enhanced" CDs are not allowed to carry the compact disc logo. They do not follow the Redbook standard.

Does it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously. I don't give a rat's ass about unlicensed games, but run linux on the slim would be interesting.

Yeah, right

[Mr_Silver]

Can't help but point out that this wouldn't have happened if Sony hadn't decided to yank the Boot Other OS option.

If you really believe that this product is of absolutely no interest to people who want to run backups of games they have borrowed from 30,000 friends off the internet for an indefinite trial, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Re:Yeah, right

[RichiH]

The point he was making is that a lot of hackers are not crackers. If there is no challenge to running Linux on something, why bother running it? If there _is_ a challenge, more people will be interested. Many of those with engineering backgrounds.

PS: I run Linux on my systems. The "why bother" refers to the fact that there is no "gain" by simply booting Linux on something that supports it, anyway.

Re:Yeah, right

[Sancho]

False dichotomy. Try again.

Re:Yeah, right

[Issarlk]

There are games on the PS3?

How?

[abigsmurf]

Any idea what the nature of this exploit is?

I thought that pretty much everyone who's looked at the PS3 security has found it to be pretty ironclad. The hypervisor was supposed to be obscenely difficult to get around, even if you did find an exploit.

Re:How?

[lordgun]

As seen in the psx-scene forums, it seems to turn the PS3 into a debug-mode.

Re:How?

[abigsmurf]

If that's true that sucks. Pretty much ensures that all debug modes in future consoles will limit functionality to "wipe" and "only install one specific signed firmware" if they're included at all. Every console sent to be repaired will have their save games erased.

Re:How?

[Anonymous Coward]

Every console sent to be repaired will have their save games erased.

That is already the case and always has been. Sony do not repair the units, they just send you a refurbished unit with no effort to salvage your data. Herein lies a sticky issue. Those of us with the good original fat models are in for problems when they fail. Sony have run out of them and will send a later model. Sounds good? Not when you consider the original machines had back compatibility, SACD support, more card slots etc, that the new models do not. The PS3 is a machine that gets less functionality with each incarnation.

Re:How?

[phorm]

Are any of the original fat machines still in warranty? I had assumed that any of the one with hardware-enabled backwards-compatibility were past warranty by now...

Re:How?

[MozeeToby]

You can still pay for a repair (I think it's around $100 for most problems). My fat PS3 has had some overheating issues for the past year or so, not enough to melt but enough to cause artifacts player certain games (basically anything by Ubisoft). I would love to send it in for repair before it totally craps out, but I actually do use the backwards compatibility so I can't.

Re:How?

[Theoboley]

its $150. I had mine crap out near thanksgiving last year and that's what it cost for a cardboard coffin.

Re:How?

[Raenex]

My fat PS3 has had some overheating issues for the past year or so, not enough to melt but enough to cause artifacts player certain games (basically anything by Ubisoft).

Have you tried vacuuming the vents? Your issue reminds me of the StarCraft II story, where lots of PCs were overheating video cards from casual users who had dusty machines.

Re:How?

[TrancePhreak]

the repair will send you a refurb of whatever version you send in. The cost is $150 + tax flat fee. Be sure to also send in the original HDD as they will not even bother to swap them.

Sony's official response

[rshxd]

A protective case around your PS3

too bad it's a scam

[Anonymous Coward]

with a real debug system.

Sony sabotaged Other OS without excuse

[Anonymous Coward]

They didn't even claim the Other OS removal was to prevent this - that was conjecture. Meanwhile I'm STILL being attacked by Sony for wanting to use the functionality the machine was sold for, and this (quite expensive) disc boot feature does NOT cover Other OS. The next iteration of game masters is bound to demand an upgrade to a version of the firmware that kills this option, too. PS3 has been transformed to the "can't play its own games" brand.
Backup capability is nice, and PS machines have a history of optical drives breaking, but mine still work. Thus I don't need this mod. I'll consider it if it can be demonstrated to run Other OS, but even then a way to protect against future SCE sabotage is needed.

Woman?

[jasonthibodeau]

Hell hath no fury, like a hacker scorned.

If it sounds too good to be true...

[Anonymous Coward]

• A simple dongle that puts your PS3 into debug mode and allows you to play games off an external hard drive.
• Costs very little
• Doesn't void your warranty
• Forum link is down
• Advert in video for where to buy
• Camera stays mostly on the TV, so we can't see if any other PS3s or equipment is involved...
• Whilst others have struggled to hack the PS3, these guys have come out of nowhere with a full blown, working solution... one that you can immediately purchase!

Re:If it sounds too good to be true...

[blahplusplus]

Not really, considering every single console and even UBISOFTS secure DRM on Assasins creed 2 was cracked. Not to mention starcraft 2 had a crack working the day it was released. It's not too good to be true since given the past history of cracking protection measures, it's quite simply a matter of time and perseverance. How much energy are you willing to expend to protect/crack something?

That's basically what it comes down to. Considering the Wii and xbox 360 have been hacked from Day 1, the sales of their games like Call of duty haven't really been affected, piracy is the industries scapegoat for high development costs and recycled gameplay concepts. The industries technolust is what drove game development costs so high that the game industry has turned to conservativeness and risk aversion due to monetary costs involved in modern game production. But lets be frank - companies put themselves here with their technolust. No gamer forced developers or these companies to release the latest and greatest. It's all based on inertia. When a 2D super mario bros Wii can outsell most 3D games on most platforms you have to ask yourself - was all this technolust really necessary?

Re:If it sounds too good to be true...

[lordgun]

and maybe it will be free ? "however, please note the PSJailBreak patch above is only for PlayStation 3 Debug users. At this time it would probably be wise NOT to waste your money on this expensive PSJailBreak USB device, as a FREE PS3 scene solution is bound to surface." http://www.ps3news.com/PS3-Hacks/psjailbreak-playstation-3-jailbreak-for-ps3-consoles-arrives/

Re:If it sounds too good to be true...

[elrous0]

Doesn't the 360 require a mod chip though? That's a lot more involved than just attaching a dongle.

Re:If it sounds too good to be true...

[elgo]

Boy, you sure do love the word "Technolust," don't you? I usually only use it three or four times an hour, myself... a little less during the holidays.

Re:If it sounds too good to be true...

[Khyber]

No, it is not bound to surface at all. The only known method is through hardware logic futzing using other hardware. Good luck making that free.

~the guy that originally discovered the trace over-current trick

Re:If it sounds too good to be true...

[Aphoxema]

Not really, considering every single console and even UBISOFTS secure DRM on Assasins creed 2 was cracked.

Assassin's Creed 2 was hacked?!

*ahem* I have to go do... something entirely unrelated to... uhh... bbl.

Re:If it sounds too good to be true...

[GNious]

• A simple dongle that puts your PS3 into debug mode and allows you to play games off an external hard drive.
• Costs very little

At 130 euros, you and I have different definitions of what "very little" means..

Sony is going to freak out on this one

[elrous0]

They're even bigger control freaks than Apple (this is the studio that gave us the rootkit fiasco, after all). I suspect this will set off an arms race, with Sony going to some pretty crazy limits to stop hacks. Of course, they did start this arms race themselves by removing the "Other OS" option (and even earlier by using the hypervisor to gimp the PS3). They may come to really regret that decision.

Re:Sony is going to freak out on this one

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Sony hasn't sued anyone because they made a controller for their console with out their explicit permission. Unlike another console maker we all know.

That is a debug unit

[GrugVoth]

I think most of you are missing the fact that this is running on a debug unit which already has the capability to run unsigned code and code off of hard drives with no restrictions. The USB dongle has nothing to do with that, until this can be show running on a non-debug unit this is very bogus.

Re:That is a debug unit

[besalope]

The "Install Packages" option at the top of XBM could also mean it's just running a 'demo' firmware, not necessarily a true Dev/Debug console. (note, not 100% sure whether Demos can run unsigned code).

Re:That is a debug unit

[bushing]

I think most of you are missing the fact that this is running on a debug unit

What makes you say that?

$170

[bhunachchicken]

... is the asking price of the dongle. They're taking pre-orders now, apparently. Take the money and run..?

Re:$170

[bytestorm]

It's actually ~150 USD, and includes a 10% tax that out-of-country purchasers do not have to pay, however once you add shipping on, it'll probably be a bit more.

Re:$170

[Anonymous Coward]

wait for it to appear on the 'bay?

Re:$170

[GiveBenADollar]

Yup. No proof whatsoever that it does what they say it does. Could be simple editing of what is displayed. You see this same scam over and over again in different forms, just look at free energy videos.

Re:$170

[BatGnat]

I can't wait until some one copies the device and starts selling cheap clones.....Oh the irony...

Re:$170

[Aphoxema]

... is the asking price of the dongle. They're taking pre-orders now, apparently. Take the money and run..?

It'd be a great way to make a fast buck. Hack starved owners jilted from the loss of the "Other OS" might just be dumb enough to jump right on it.

I'm sure they'll get two... maybe three preorders.

who submitted this, Lorena Bobbit?

[Thud457]

I'm very uncomfortable with the words " hacked " and " dongle " in the same headline.

Re:who submitted this, Lorena Bobbit?

[spiffmastercow]

Actually, "hacked" and "dongle" are words that have gone together since at least the 80's. Although it is important to point out that this isn't exactly a dongle, as a dongle is designed a copy protection device.

Re:who submitted this, Lorena Bobbit?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Although it is important to point out that this isn't exactly a dongle, as a dongle is designed a copy protection device.

That isn't really important or correct. Dongle also more-or-less means 'small adapter'. My 3-com PCMCIA network card had a 'dongle', for example.

Re:who submitted this, Lorena Bobbit?

[hajihill]

That isn't really important or correct. Dongle also more-or-less means 'small adapter'.

Speak for yourself, buddy!!!

Wow

[ShooterNeo]

What an amazing technical accomplishment. I can't help but be amazed at the skills of the hardware engineers and software developers who made this accomplishment possible.

SONY managed to build a platform that resisted being cracked for almost FOUR YEARS. AMAZING! Despite the fact that every ps3 game comes on a blu-ray disc that lots of hardware can read, and the fact that a ps3 must have in hardware all of the decryption keys in order to play a game, the platform has withstood 4 years of determined assaults. Has any other widely used DRM scheme that doesn't depend on remote servers lasted this long?

Plus, even now, the battle probably isn't over. I bet there's a few more tricks and DRM features that Sony can switch on for newly released games. It'll be an ongoing battle until the end of the console's lifespan. Four years is a vast gulf of time. Technically, it's already time to start thinking of the next generation of consoles...the next gen could be many times quicker if it were released today with the same manufacturing cost that the ps3 cost in 2006.

Is DRM futile? Depends on who you ask, I guess. I think these results show that DRM can work effectively if sufficient effort is put into it.

Which gives me the idea for a new DRM scheme...has anyone ever made a USB hardware dongle for a software license that has an internal CPU performing complex calculations needed for the host software to work properly? If enough of the software depended on this internal CPU, how could you crack it?

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

SONY managed to build a platform that resisted being cracked for almost FOUR YEARS. AMAZING!

Not quite accurate. The PS3 could officially run Linux from day 1. Sony worked with YDL to ensure it happened. It was only earlier this year with Geohot's useless (fake?) "exploit" that Sony pissed off a lot of people. There was no need to hack the device until recently, because you could already run 10,000 applications right out of your distro's repository. Sony took that away, making the PS3 linux or gaming, not both, as previous advertised.

It's rather amusing that this exploit is not demoing homebrew (other than the little menu system), or reinstating Linux, it's dumping blu-ray to harddrives and loading that.

Re:Wow

[Pentium100]

Is DRM futile? Depends on who you ask, I guess. I think these results show that DRM can work effectively if sufficient effort is put into it.

Well, as you said, it depends. "DRM" of an online-only game (like WoW) most likely cannot be cracked (if you want to play on the official server). DRM on a closed platform can also be quite strong. DRM on an open platform, like PC will be much weaker. There are no PS3 emulators, but there are PC emulators, so PC is easier to debug.

This is for interactive stuff, like games and applications. It will always be possible to copy non-interactive things like audio and video, at least using analog means.

Which gives me the idea for a new DRM scheme...has anyone ever made a USB hardware dongle for a software license that has an internal CPU performing complex calculations needed for the host software to work properly? If enough of the software depended on this internal CPU, how could you crack it?

You can find out what the processor is doing and emulate this or manufacture clone dongles. Yes, it is much more difficult than cracking Securom or whatever, but possible. On the other hand, the dongle itself is expensive, so the prices of games would have to increase and they are already the maximum what people would pay.

Re:Wow

[Abstrackt]

I'd say the part of shooterNeo's comment you quoted is quite accurate. Removing the Other OS feature certainly added motivation but there were people trying to become "the one that successfully hacked the PS3" since day one. For some people, it's all about the challenge.

What?

[DrXym]

The video is attached below if you're curious. Can't help but point out that this wouldn't have happened if Sony hadn't decided to yank the Boot Other OS option.

Bollocks. Other systems have dozens of mods, why would it be any different for the PS3? That's assuming this is a legit hack which is questionable without further info.

Debug Console

[Anonymous Coward]

This was done on a Debug Console. If you look at 0:44 on the video, you can see the "Install Packages..." option at the top of the list in the XMB. ...so in other words, nothing unusual, folks. This type of thing could always be done on a Debug Console...

Re:Debug Console

[Khyber]

It's only a matter of time before finding the critical differences between devbox and retailbox and adapting the changes.

I'm on it right now. I love my devbox PS3 fat. Too bad it's a later model without BC.

Re:Debug Console

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Several reputable sites have independently verified this dongle.
2. The dongle supposedly puts the PS3 into debug mode so, yes, "Install Packages..." is going to be enabled.

Re:Debug Console

[Anonymous Coward]

As I understand it the USB dongle contains a key or similar that boots any PS3 into Debug mode, supposedly this is what they use to diagnose problems when you leave your PS3 in for repair. It doesn't require a special console. Technically it isn't a hack or exploit because a PS3 is supposed to have this feature, it was just never meant to be used by anyone but the repair shop. At least, this is my understanding of the "hack". I honestly don't know if it's a hoax.

Feels like an illusion.

[N1tr0u5]

I notice that they didn't ever skip the video back to the PS3 after "loading" the backed up game. I don't have a PS3, so I can't confirm and/or notice any differences in OS between what a proper disc loaded up looks like or vs. what a backed up game would look like (when they view the ratchet and clank game).

I am skeptical given that the forum link is down, and that something as simple as USB run code breaking open the hypervisor seems shady.

Hack can't sync Video Camera to TV monitor

[Anonymous Coward]

This guy can Hack the PS3 but can't change the setting on his camera to have the same cycle as his monitor. 60 should do.

Re:Hack can't sync Video Camera to TV monitor

[Aphoxema]

This guy can Hack the PS3 but can't change the setting on his camera to have the same cycle as his monitor. 60 should do.

He probably, well, just didn't give a damn. If anything it makes the claim of the crack more convincing.

Firmware Version: v3.41

[besalope]

Since it's not readily on psx-scene's main page and forums are hammered.. it works on firmware v3.41 :) and yes "pre-orders" appear to be $170 :(

navy

[Anonymous Coward]

do we foresee the navy buying these to continue to use their ps3 super-clusters after the 3.40 PS3os release?
and perhaps to use them on newer slim ps3, so that they can reduce their power footprint?

My copy

[ciderbrew]

I'd like to be able to copy my game DVDs to the hard drive so I do not have to get up to swap discs OR if I can't have that, I'd like a multi DVD changer.
Anything that helps me stay on the sofa longer is a win.

Re:Firmware Version: v3.41

[Hatta]

$170 isn't that much for a console dev kit. Certainly many other homebrew devices for gaming consoles cost around that much. The 1541 Ultimate for C64 runs about $160. The Cuttle Cart 3 for intellivision costs $150. If you're really into a platform, it's worth it to unlock it to its full potential. Creating this kind of stuff is not easy work. It's really just luck and economies of scale that have given us as many cheap modchips as we have.

Free doesn't mean compatible

[tepples]

Linux is free.

My previous comments were intended in the context of a comparison between a PLAYSTATION 3 video game console and a gaming PC. The vast majority of PC games are made for Windows. There are far more major-label games for PS3 than for Linux, especially things other than M-rated first-person shooters, and getting games for Windows to run on Linux is hit or miss.

How leet r u?

[AnAdventurer]

If your uberleet why do you need to run an alt OS on PS3? Why don't you have a beowulf cluster in your closet or some mutant linux box made of parts you scavenged for free from the local mega-corporations recycle bin?

Re:How leet r u?

[Abstrackt]

If your uberleet why do you need to run an alt OS on PS3? Why don't you have a beowulf cluster in your closet or some mutant linux box made of parts you scavenged for free from the local mega-corporations recycle bin?

To answer the question of why you need to run another OS on the PS3, you don't. To answer your second question, a system that can multitask is worth more to me than a unitasker as it keeps the space under my TV cleaner and it adds value.

Re:How leet r u?

[Anonymous Coward]

While I haven't a clue what you're trying to argue, I do have all the things you listed. Now, if I could only get access to PSN (including credits Sony stole from me back in April) with my PS3 again, I'd be less annoyed.

Re:How leet r u?

[AnAdventurer]

I know, I am one to talk. I have an PS3, a old MacBook with HDMI out and a 1T drive with movies and my stupid DVR (where I live if you want the fastest download of 6MPs and no cap you MUST have a DVR and cable, there is no competition). I think I have 5 remotes on the back of my couch.

"e.g."; C# on iPhone

[tepples]

XNA games are allowed to use made up fantasy languages just not Elvish and Klingon.

The policy states "e.g. Elvish/Klingon". The e.g. notation means that a list is not exhaustive; therefore, Sindarin and Klingon are not the only prohibited constructed languages.

C# runs just fine on linux as well as Microsoft OSes meaning it hits most major computing platforms.

C# and other languages most commonly compiled to CIL notably do not run on devices running Apple iOS, which according to its SDK license agreement supports only two languages: JavaScript for web applications and Objective-C++ for native applications. Does CIL run on any handheld device other than the little-known Zune MP3 player and forthcoming cell phones running Windows Phone 7? Besides, the article mentions porting "an existing game".

Re:"e.g."; C# on iPhone

[TrancePhreak]

C# runs on Windows Mobile 5/6 too. And it used to run on iOS, until Apple walled their garden even further.

Re:"e.g."; C# on iPhone

[JustSomeProgrammer]

Maybe I'm confused, but what does running C# on a mobile phone have to do with developing for XNA which is Xbox exclusive anyway? I also don't think it is nessecarily Microsoft saying no C# on iPhone; just like Sun/Oracle didn't say no Java on iPhone.

updates

[Anonymous Coward]

A few more techy updates are here: http://www.ps3news.com/PS3-Hacks/psjailbreak-playstation-3-jailbreak-for-ps3-consoles-arrives/

PC gaming on SDTV

[tepples]

you can get a $50 video card that can display on an HDTV

Will it also display on the SDTV that one already owns? Or does one have to buy a $400 HDTV or hope they happen to run into someone who knows about the $40 VGA to SDTV adapter available only through mail order? (I have a Sewell scan converter, and I recommend it for HTPC gaming, but it appears I'm the only person I know who has heard of it.)

Re:why bother with consoles at all, just get a PC

[Anonymous Coward]

offtopic + trolling. I won't even sign in to see if I have any mod points.

One model, many views

[tepples]

what does running C# on a mobile phone have to do with developing for XNA which is Xbox exclusive anyway?

XNA doesn't even run on an Xbox. It runs on Xbox 360 consoles, PCs running Windows, forthcoming Windows Phone 7 cell phones, and Zune media players.

C++ has several toolkits for developing applications, such as Win32, GTK+, or Qt. Likewise, C# and other CLR languages have several application toolkits. XNA is optimized for games and runs on a few Microsoft platforms as described above. Silverlight runs on PCs running Windows, on Macs, and on WP7 phones. Other toolkits exist, such as GTK#. But the versions of a game for multiple platforms can share the same business logic, even if you need a new graphics engine coded to each platform's toolkit, as long as they can run the same programming language. (In the case of a video game, business logic includes physics and object behaviors.) Think of it as the model-view-controller pattern, with separate views for each platform that share one model. But a platform that only runs Objective-C, on the other hand, can't share anything with a platform that only runs verifiably type-safe CIL.

I also don't think it is nessecarily Microsoft saying no C# on iPhone

I didn't say it was Microsoft's fault, but it's still application developers' problem.

HTPCs; imperfect back-compat in Windows

[tepples]

Anonymous Coward wrote:

Just because consoles cannot use keyboard/mouse does not mean PCs cannot use controllers

I have plugged four controllers into a PC through a USB hub. But just because four USB game controllers Just Work on a PC doesn't mean that A. the median PC has a big enough monitor for four people holding controllers to fit around, or that B. major PC games support multiple controllers. Either major labels fail to anticipate the scenario of gaming on a PC connected to a TV, or they want to sell four copies to four players who play online instead of selling one copy of a game to one home theater PC owner who plays with three IRL friends.

PCs have the added bonus of not becoming obsolete and unsupported.

Unless the game you want to play relies on bugs^W unofficial "features" in Windows 95 and Windows 98 and was never updated to run on Windows XP. Or unless the game uses Glide. Or unless the game was designed for DOS or Windows 3.1. No game for DOS or Windows 3.1 works in 64-bit versions of Windows because Microsoft didn't anticipate running wowexec inside wow64. Or I'll see your DOSBox or VirtualBox and raise you a Retrode cartridge reader and Snes9x.

do i get linux back now?

[Anonymous Coward]

so now that it's been hacked by other means, do i get my fucking linux install option back?

signing service

[Cruciform]

Even in a closed system it would be possible to open it up to the homebrew community using a code signing service, wouldn't it?
You make your game, register for your code, sign it, and now you can run it on console Z.
If an app is nefarious, the service revokes the cert for that app/game and continues.

At first it would appear to be a silly expense to the console makers, but when they see that it creates a clear separation of homebrew and pirate communities it becomes a financially sound decision.

As much as I dislike iTunes, the idea of being able to create, sign, and distribute your software is pretty appealing. Even if their reviewers are completely inconsistent and sometimes borderline retarded.

Hardware hack?

[rabtech]

Forgive my ignorance here, but could this be a hardware hack? I know that most Firewire controllers will happily let devices DMA all over RAM, completely bypassing any/all protections from the OS. A lot of hacking of supposed trusted-computing crap has been by using this sort of hardware to peek and poke at memory without running any software on the target box whatsoever.

If there is a hardware hole in the USB controller it may be very difficult to patch with firmware; even if you could patch it, you could run your own mini-hypervisor that fooled Sony's hypervisor into thinking it was running on the real hardware, which means in practice you can't ever really close this hole. Whether the promised mod is that sophisticated I don't know, but in principle it is possible.

Re:Hardware hack?

[Aphoxema]

If there is a hardware hole in the USB controller it may be very difficult to patch with firmware; [...]

Maybe, though probably it would be as easy as having the firmware just ignore the USB anything until a "secure" boot completed.

Either way anyone who believes this works and intend to get the USB thing best not even think about updating anymore.

Disclosing how it works means they lose business

[lePooch]

By not disclosing how they did it, they have given themselves a head start on selling these dongles before the market gets flooded by $20 Chinese ripoffs, which I can guarantee will happen within a few days, as soon as a a few enterprising individuals get their dongles in the mail. After all, it would be the height of irony if a bunch of guys who hacked the PS3 so that they could copy games off each other and play were to complain that the software they created was in turn being ripped off :P

Nice Straw-man Anonymous Coward

[medv4380]

Just because the mod chip may appeal to the poor, cheap ass, and people of differing views doesn't mean that it doesn't appeal to the morally corrupt. People who sell an xbox loaded with a hundred games as "legit" would be morally questionable and possibly morally corrupt.

Re:why bother with consoles at all, just get a PC

[Khyber]

You mean you don't stay logged in and only click the "post as anonymous" box as needed?

Linux and the Hypervisor?

[Doc Ruby]

Any chance that this HW hack can give Linux programs access to the RSX chip, or even just the extra RAM on the RSX? Or if it can boot Linux on newer/upgraded machines that don't have OtherOS support?

Or are my two pre-upgrade PS3s just going to keep sitting on a shelf doing nothing but play DVDs, forever waiting for a hack to unlock the unique parts of the platform?

Extra video evidence

[Khyber]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsBckuvmP7U&feature=player_embedded

En Francais

No, it was secure due to on-die decrypting

[Otis_INF]

Read Shimizu's paper about protecting software through hardware (She's the lead designer for the CELL's protection mechanism). It has nothing to do with obscurity, you simply can't reach the place where things get decrypted as it's on the CELL, in hardware. There are no 'key's to be found, it's not protected by software.

Re:No, it was secure due to on-die decrypting

[marcansoft]

I know about the isolated SPU, and this has nothing to do with it. Sure, the PS3 has some interesting real security. That's orthogonal to the obscurity that is also present. The obscurity is simply the inability to analyze the software, as externally it just appears encrypted and signed. I am especially talking about PowerPC code, such as the hypervisor and GameOS code, which form the bulk of the software running on the PS3.

People underestimate the importance of obscurity. Sure, obscurity is undesirable in things such as encryption algorithms and Internet security protocols, which should be open and still secure. However, there is an entire continuum of security vs. obscurity, and things such as "secure" consumer devices like game consoles fall somewhere in the middle, where obscurity plays a very important role in delaying the inevitable analysis of the security (which will never be fully secure, as it's too complicated).

On the extreme end of the scale, media DRM schemes are 100% obscurity. Real security is fundamentally impossible with a DRM system, by definition.

My personal opinion is that the PS3 has inferior security to the Xbox 360 (no RAM encryption or hashing, privileged hypervisor is freely available for glitching in insecure external memory), but had superior obscurity, plus discouraged analysis by providing an officially supported way of running unsigned code (Other OS). Sure, there's the isolated SPU in the Cell that handles crypto, and breaking into it is nearly impossible, but that's not necessary in order to significantly compromise the system. The fact that the SPU is isolated is its limitation, as it can do little when software outside of it is compromised. Sure, it can do "stuff" securely for you, decrypt executables, check signatures, etc., but once you break into the PPU hypervisor nothing prevents you from just ignoring the SPU and running your own code. You can also use the SPU to decrypt official code for you. Sure, you'll never get the keys, but you don't need them.

Re:Tag parent fail

[bushing]

Care to explain what PCB traces are shared between D+/D- on the USB and the RAM? And what this has to do with your TomTom?

You're also confusing the service mode jig used in Sony repair centers on retail consoles with debug consoles used for development. The two are unrelated.

Super Lame

[stewbacca]

Pardon my ignorance, but after watching that video, I have no idea what is going on, or what the big deal is. After reading through this forum, am I right to assume what was being demonstrated was this guy was able to play a pirated video game off a USB dongle? Really? Is that it? Lame.

If this is the case, then this story is relevant to everyone in the age range of about 14-20.

OnLive might be for you

[tepples]

I'd trade all the mods for a wall-hack proof/aimbot proof system.

In that case something like the OnLive service might be for you. But without mods, how do you expect somebody to enter the video game industry?

Re:Tag parent fail

[Khyber]

The over-current trick has been used in MANY systems to bypass hardware restrictions by forcing it into a failure mode for repair. From Tom-Tom devices, to the original XBox console, now it's been used on the PS3.

Here's your requested information. I gave you more than you needed so you could grab a PS3 for yourself, pop out the mobo, flip it over, and start hacking for yourself so maybe you can help us figure out WTF these other UNKs are.

http://www.interfacebus.com/ps3-connector-pinouts.html

download the usb dongle!

[Anonymous Coward]

the ps3 usb dongle has already been cloned!!

download it http://fileups.net/2F55561

don't pay for it!!!