Steam Not Coming To Linux

dkd903 writes "A rumor has been going around for about four months that Valve was working on a Linux version of Steam and this had a lot of people in the Linux community very excited. But, Valve has now officially killed the rumor. And it is not what people wants to hear – there is no Linux version of Steam in development. Doug Lombardi, the Marketing VP of Valve Corporation, in an interview, has put an end to all the rumors by saying that they are not working on Steam for Linux right now."

Comments

Not ready as a gaming platform

[odies]

It's not really a surprise. To begin with 99% of commercial games don't even have a Linux version, so there's nothing to sell to Linux gamers. You can't really rely on emulation either, if you sell the game as a Linux version you really have to do a native build. Then there are hundreds of different Linux distros and configurations which all work a little bit different. Also, just imagine the outcry about DRM and Valve not open sourcing Steam or it's games. The whole open source and everything-must-be-free mentality goes against businesses. You can already read here on slashdot how some people refuse to use Steam because it might go down in 50 years. This thinking is 100x worse with Linux users.

I think the problem with Linux is that those who develop it push their philosophy too much and refuse to give room for other philosophies, along with way too much spread ecosystem (distros, configurations, all the problems). There's a reason why we still haven't seen the year of Linux on desktop and probably never will. As much as I dislike Apple, if you want an UNIX based desktop OS you get a Mac.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[Anonymous Coward]

Most serious gamers have dual-boot or a console. There aren't many sales to be gained, honestly.

Linux would have more to gain by this than Valve, and it's not like it's a priority for the Linux community...

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[Spad]

I think the problem with Linux is that those who develop it push their philosophy too much and refuse to give room for other philosophies

I'm probably going to upset a lot of people here by comparing Linux to religion; specifically Christianity, but the others are just as guilty of it:

When Monty Python's Life of Brian was released the church was up in arms about it, protesting and demanding it was banned because *they* didn't like it and *they* felt it was unacceptable for people to watch, that it had a negative effect on the church because it went against what they believed in. It never occurred to them that *other* people might be quite happy to go and see it without any issues at all, they just saw it as their duty to protect all us witless heathens from ourselves.

A lot of Linux users are exactly the same with anything closed source; *they* don't want closed source software and drivers because *they* feel it's unacceptable for people to use them and that it will have a negative effect on Linux because it goes against what they believe in. It never occurs to them that *other* people might be quite happy to use closed source software & drivers without any issues at all and just see it as their duty to protect all us witless heathens from ourselves.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not really a surprise. To begin with 99% of commercial games don't even have a Linux version

And in other news, fire is hot. Thank you Captain Obvious.

, so there's nothing to sell to Linux gamers. You can't really rely on emulation either, if you sell the game as a Linux version you really have to do a native build.

If you plan on selling a game for any platform, you need a native build. Again, thank you Captain Obvious.

Then there are hundreds of different Linux distros and configurations which all work a little bit different.

And? Would't be hard to have a system requirement Debian base? You know ... like many games require Windows Vista +, so you are fscked on XP or 2000.

Also, just imagine the outcry about DRM and Valve not open sourcing Steam or it's games.

VMWare Workstation ran/runs fine on Linux without open sourcing it. Nobody complains. As for DRM, not many people complain about Steam anyways.

The whole open source and everything-must-be-free mentality goes against businesses.

Yes because Redhat are bankrupt and Novell also and IBM too and oh yes, Google also.

You can already read here on slashdot how some people refuse to use Steam because it might go down in 50 years.

Is anything wrong with people standing up for their principals, morals, ethics, beleifs? Next thing you are going to complain about people refusing to eat meat because they beleive about animal rights?

This thinking is 100x worse with Linux users.

I think the problem with Linux is that those who develop it push their philosophy too much and refuse to give room for other philosophies

Because you made a scientific survey of Linux users with a good statistical sample so you can come to the conclusion that Linux users are 100x worse? Nice ad hominem sopssa, nice ad hominem.

There's a reason why we still haven't seen the year of Linux on desktop and probably never will.

The desktop is dead. And Linux is already taking over the mobile space, the next big market.

As much as I dislike Apple, if you want an UNIX based desktop OS you get a Mac.

You dislike the US, Apple, Google, Linux and are a China and MS apologist, odies. Or should we call you sopssa? Or SquarePixel? Which sockpuppet's name should we use.

Nice troll pal, nice troll. Too bad some idiot moderators can't see through.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[Ephemeriis]

To begin with 99% of commercial games don't even have a Linux version, so there's nothing to sell to Linux gamers.

The same could be said of Macs. Part of what made Steam viable on the Mac was Valve porting a number of their games over to the Mac. And they could do it again for Linux if they wanted to...

Also, just imagine the outcry about DRM and Valve not open sourcing Steam or it's games. The whole open source and everything-must-be-free mentality goes against businesses. You can already read here on slashdot how some people refuse to use Steam because it might go down in 50 years. This thinking is 100x worse with Linux users.

This, I think, is the real problem.

I like free stuff as much as the next guy... And I'm not a big fan of DRM in general... But I can at least accept that game developers need to eat, and that I'm not entitled to their games for free, and that Steam is a relatively reasonable platform.

A lot of folks here on Slashdot disagree with me. A lot of folks here on Slashdot think Steam is an absolutely horrible thing. They wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole. They sure as hell wouldn't install it on their Linux system and purchase games through it.

I think the Linux market is even smaller than the Mac market... Not because of the number of users out there, but because of the philosophy you see behind so many Linux users.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[gid]

I'm sure myself along with many other Linux users are perfectly fine with things such as the closed source nvidia drivers. I'm just glad they exist. I'll let the kernel developers and nvidia duke it out on their own tho.

As long as I don't have to purchase a driver, I'm fine. :)

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[Macrat]

To begin with 99% of commercial games don't even have a Linux version, so there's nothing to sell to Linux gamers.

The same could be said of Macs. Part of what made Steam viable on the Mac was Valve porting a number of their games over to the Mac. And they could do it again for Linux if they wanted to...

Most Mac owners actually BUY software.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[bsdaemonaut]

Tell that to all the developers releasing 'Mac' versions of their games when in reality it's simply the Windows version in a pretty Cider (Wine) package. I'm not disputing you by a long shot, I find the practice extremely obnoxious, but many developers aren't above doing it... EA is probably the most rampant that I've noticed.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[rtb61]

Linux is open source and covers many different groups. You fall guilty of the same nonsense using what was originally an M$ marketing strategy to paint all Linux users the same.

Governments use it, corporations use it, the military uses it, the bulk of ISP's use it. The majority use it to save time, hassle and of course money. Some use it because of greater control they can exercise over it.

Really it is no different to defining all M$ coders as tiny limp windrones and that statement is also not true.

Back on topic what was interesting was the answer, 'There's no Linux version that we're working on right now', so there is a Linux version and they are no longer working on it but will likely do so again in the future, likely subject to the success of smart books and Android and Linux code merging a bit.

At a guess you most likley will see and Android version for smartbooks and even phones first, all that late 90s early 2000s software ported across.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[locallyunscene]

The same can be said of any ideology. Do you believe it is better to have access to the source code, or do you believe that companies will fairly use the trust you have given them to create better products? You think you know the answer that is best for you and they think they know the answer that is best for them. They aren't "forcing" anything on you like most religions I know.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[watermark]

I do dual boot, but I wouldn't have a need to dual boot if the games ran native in Linux. The only reason windows exists on my box is to run games, bringing the cost of games to $cost_of_games+$microsoft_tax. While I like free things as much as the next guy, I expect to pay for games (just not monthly, screw Blizzard.) Steam's DRM is unintrusive and very rarely causes me inconveniences.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[Anonymous Coward]

To begin with 99% of commercial games don't even have a Linux version, so there's nothing to sell to Linux gamers.

The same could be said of Macs. Part of what made Steam viable on the Mac was Valve porting a number of their games over to the Mac. And they could do it again for Linux if they wanted to...

Most Mac owners actually BUY software.

Only because they can't steal it from work.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[Kryptonian Jor-El]

I think its less to do with some ideology about only using free software, but with the license under which ubuntu is packaged, where it can't automatically opt you into closed-source software

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[sammyF70]

But more Linux users will actually pay and pay more for good native games. They just won't pay for something of which they can legally get working free equivalents

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[somersault]

WINE isn't an emulator any more than DirectX and OpenGL are emulators..

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[GuerillaRadio]

http://www.techdirt.com/blog/entrepreneurs/articles/20100518/0844299463.shtml

"The other interesting tidbit, as many noted, is that despite suggestions from some that the "open source" world are folks who "just want stuff for free," the average amount paid by Linux users ($14.52) was significantly higher than those paid by Mac ($10.18) or Windows ($8.05) users."

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[TheRaven64]

Personally, it irritates me when I install ubuntu or similar, and drivers that I need for wireless are included in the available libraries, but you have to opt-in to those because they "are not free software".

A much more common case is that the drivers are not included because Ubuntu does not have the right to distribute them. A lot of WiFi cards require firmware to work, which is not freely redistributable. When you 'opt in' you are actually running a script that fetches the firmware from the original supplier. Other drivers are redistributable, but not in conjunction with the Linux kernel. The nVidia drivers are an example of this. They are not compatible with the GPL, so if you distribute them with the kernel then you lose your license to distribute the kernel (since they are not a derived work of the kernel, they can be distributed independently of the kernel without any license issues).

Objections to non-Free software are often not based on ideology, but rather on pragmatism. If the license prevents you from doing what you want to with the software, it's understandable that people are hostile to it.

When your hardware manufacturer decides that it's no longer worth the cost of maintaining the drivers and the last release has known security holes, I hope you enjoy your proprietary drivers.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it's as fucking stupid and childish as typing "M$" instead of "MS" is.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[Anonymous Coward]

"M$" and "windrones"? Did you just wake up from early 2000s cryogenic suspension? Here's something to help: we hate Apple now.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[ultranova]

Notice the differentiation, Wine does not do any /CPU/ emulation, it does on the other hand do software, often called binary, emulation. /Every/ other system that performs similarly refers to itself as binary emulation. Look up FreeBSD linux binary emulation if you don't believe me.

Well, you are of course free to call it whatever you want. The fact remains that Wine doesn't emulate a Windows system in the way that, say, VirtualBox running Windows does.

I'm confused as to how you think Wine works, if it was simply APIs as you seem to think, how exactly would it go about loading binaries, as well as handling Windows memory layouts, exceptions, threads, and processes.

All of those are part of Windows API. Also, running native Linux ELF-format binaries also involves using a special loader program (/lib/ld-linux.so.1). This format is simply recognized directly by the kernel, yet Wine can also be registered as such a loader by following the instructions here.

If APIs were all you needed you wouldn't have to preface every single windows command with "wine."

You don't. See above.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[LingNoi]

Keep on trolling dude with your select quoting. Why didn't you quote the next line which says..

Some people argue that since Wine introduces an extra layer above the system a Windows application will run slowly. While technically true, Wine is no different from any other software library in this regard;

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[Anonymous Coward]

A program that allows machine code to be run on a system which does not accept it natively. For example, software that allows compiled powerPC code to run on an x86 system would be an emulator.

WINE by itself allows windows programs compiled for x86 to run without Windows, but only on systems that are also x86. The machine code is never interpreted. It instead provides a compatibility layer for the Windows kernel and API.

The people who actually wrote WINE knew what emulation is, and that they weren't doing it. You should listen to them

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[danieltdp]

So if steam is on Linux, nothing changes from the sales point of view. You will buy Bad Company for Linux instead of Bad Company for Windows.

My point is, valve is not going to sell much more games. Their audience will just migrate from one OS to another. They (we) will be very happy, but it won't come out as more money to the company.

Reality is a little cruel sometimes. It would love to get something like steam running on my Linux box. I would be great. But I see their reasoning...

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[DrgnDancer]

But realistically I think people like you are probably less than 1% of the market. I'm not trying to offend you or anything, but the number of people who:

a) Use Linux as their primary OS.
b) Use a computer for games extensively.
c) Are not willing to dual boot or have a separate "game box".
d) Are willing to pay for the games they play (instead of just playing Tux Racer or Majong)

is pretty small. Most people who use Linux exclusively are willing to compromise on games (and many would not want to use "non-Free" games even if they were available). Most people who really want games are willing to compromise on OS (Either not using Linux as a primary system, dual booting, or having a "game box").

How much would it cost to port Steam and any reasonable number of the games on Steam, and would gaining you and the people who agree with you make them more money than that? Steam seems to think not.

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[irving47]

"The same could be said of Macs. Part of what made Steam viable on the Mac was Valve porting a number of their games over to the Mac. And they could do it again for Linux if they wanted to..."

I play on a fairly recent iMac... Team Fortress 2 is gorgeous on the Windows 7 side, but when I reboot from that, into Mac OS X version, the difference is still quite clear, even with the recent updates. Also, the microphone tends to fail after 3-5 minutes of use.

So essentially... they have enough to worry about as it is...

Re:Not ready as a gaming platform

[DavidTC]

However, if Wine does count as emulator, should the ability of newer Windows versions to run programs made for the older ones be considered that too?

Yes, goddamn it, that's emulation also.

And things don't 'count' as emulators, like it's some sort of penalty. That's the entire fucking problem with this discussion, a bunch of people convinced that emulators are 'slow' or 'bad', and half the people arguing Wine is emulation (Hence bad) and the other half arguing it's not (Hence good.) Both you are fools.

All modern OSes emulate things. An emulation is just another way of saying 'API' (Well, ABI), except it's an API of a thing that does really exist like that.

If there was some actual existing DirectX video card that people could buy and put in their machine, DirectX in Windows would be an 'emulation'. This would not magically make existing implementations slower.

USB flash drives show up in modern OSes as hard drives. The OS is emulating a hard drive when it presents them to you. You can interact with it as if it were a hard drive. (Hell, now the damn BIOSes can even emulate a hard drive and boot off it. And speaking of booting, CD-ROMs still boot as floppy emulations, IIRC.)

Likewise, Java was deliberately designed as a fictional machine to be emulated...and then later actual Java CPUs were built.

A good portion of Wine is just API remapping, which isn't normally called 'emulation', otherwise all applications would be running 'under an emulator' unless they wrote directly to the actual screen image in memory or wrote to files on disk without byte-level access. Applications are supposed to use some sort of OS interface, or, rather, they're supposed to use some sort of library interface and the library is supposed to use the OS interface. That's not normally called emulation even if said library interface mimics another OSes, hence most of Wine is not an emulation, just like glibc isn't 'emulating' libc.

However, parts of Wine do things that normally would be called emulation, like, oh, mapping drive letters, which isn't some frontend to a Linux function because, obviously, no such functionality exists in Linux.

Of course, emulation doesn't make things slower. Translation from API to hardware, or API to a different API, happens several time for everything a program does, and Wine doesn't add any of those compared to other X programs or Windows programs running on Windows.

Phoronix

[Anonymous Coward]

Your number one source on the web for wild speculation and misinformation in the linux world.

Wine

[The MAZZTer]

Last I checked it ran pretty good in Wine (the Source engine too), so it's not a total loss.

Re:Wine

[Americano]

It would take just as long as testing on windows, and they'd sell a handful of additional copies as a result of that effort.

And that, in a nutshell, is why they won't bother.

Re:Wine

[Kjella]

Yes, but trying to run Steam with different games requiring different WINE settings is a giant pain in the ass.

Re:Wine

[Cato]

True, but you can use WINE bottles to get around this - install a WINE bottle, then move the steamapps directory somewhere else and do a symbolic link to it from the WINE bottle, and install one game in this bottle. For the next game, install a new bottle (with new WINE settings etc) but with symbolic link to the shared steamapps folder.

For extra point, the steamapps folder can be on an NTFS partition (but only if you have kernel >= 2.6.26, or your GCF files may get corrupted) - then you can multiboot into Windows sharing the same steamapps folder, for games that aren't compatible with WINE, or to check that a WINE game is working as it should under Windows.

I'm glad

[rshxd]

Linux is for serious business. If you want to goof around, buy a Mac

Re:I'm glad

[Anonymous Coward]

Developing Ruby on Rails "apps" on your MacBook while taking multiple dicks up the butt is not "serious business".

Re:I'm glad

[Nursie]

Umm, yes, because so many enterprises have adopted Mac OS...

Insightful my arse. Linux is much bigger than Mac in the enterprise.

Re:I'm glad

[BitZtream]

Where?

Server room? Sure. Linux is more popular than Macs since Macs make pretty shitty servers from a cost perspective.

Desktop? Give me a break, the only people who use Linux desktops have businesses selling Linux. Plenty of businesses that don't sell Apple product use Macs.

I know 1 google employee that uses a Linux on his laptop ... when it isn't booted into OS X, I know 7 or 8 admins that use Mac laptops to admin unix machines are large companies.

You also see macs all over Hollywood. You see macs all over the media industries like Newspapers (dead tree format and online), television and

Macs common on the desktop in general? Of course not, more common than Linux? Without any doubt what so ever.

You guys need some perspective from outside your basement, something from the real world might be useful. Its fine to want to support your favorite OS, but when you walk into some business with the sort of ignorance you have the only thing you're going to get is laughed at, especially when you walk in and the guys doing the hiring have Macs.

Re:I'm glad

[rovolo]

taking multiple dicks up the butt is not "serious business"

The porn industry would tend to disagree.

Re:I'm glad

[StikyPad]

Wow. If "taking multiple dicks up the butt" is not serious, then what the hell is?

Boss: "Hey guys, the workload's gonna be a little higher this week. Don't worry, it's nothing serious; I just need you to take multiple dicks up the butt while you complete your projects."

At least give credit where credit is due.

Re:I'm glad

[Culture20]

when you walk in and the guys doing the hiring have Macs.

If HR is using Macs, then I'm leery about even interviewing. Sure, there's a chance that IT is using a nice puppet/ARD/filewave/ssh/whatever combo to administer end users' machines, but it's more likely that the scenario is one where end users are admins of their own boxes and they've installed every trojan under the sun, and the "admins" choose xserves because all they know is Mac OS X. *shiver*

tl;dr what everyone else is going to say:

[MindlessAutomata]

"Fuck."

Valve != iD I suppose

[Da w00t]

iD software has historically produced Linux versions of their games; I remember fondly playing the quake(s), and doom 3 under Linux. While there have been lots and lots of reports over the years showing there is a Linux gaming market, it isn't a large enough market share for these game developers to put serious effort into it. I bet some of them actually see developing for Linux as a hindrance, even though most big game dev companies essentially abstract-out the bits between PS3, XBOX, Wii, PC, etc that are different.

Re:Valve != iD I suppose

[CFBMoo1]

I like iD, they've historically given back to the public domain after a limited period of time. As their new tech comes out they've released the older tech to the general public. My game purchases may be pittance but I like rewarding them as best I can for their actions even in this crappy economy. Still have the metal box Quake 3 Linux package and CD. >_>

Re:Valve != iD I suppose

[segin]

Developing for Linux is a lot like developing for OS X - pthreads, POSIX, OpenGL, and all. Besides, if they need their games ported to Linux, all they would have to do is contract Ryan Gordon.

Confirmation

[Anonymous Coward]

they are not working on Steam for Linux right now.

This confirms they will be working on it later! I bet it'll be out in time to make 2011 the year of Linux on the desktop!

fooled me

[ko10ha]

I actually bought a new computer, partly in anticipation of steam and half-life2 coming to Linux. Silly me. And in response to those that keep saying that there are too many distro's and that Linux for games for that reason is a lost cause - I don't buy that. I'm running Openbox on Slackware, there's no gnome on my machine and I never use kde. Yet, only rarely do I encounter a program that does not run (usually because of lots of silly gnome libs not being present). I mean, what does a game need from kde or gnome or what have you? Is Linux + X not sufficient? I don't get it.

Re:fooled me

[Anonymous Coward]

Games require fast access to 3D, audio and controls. Having dozens of distros all doing things their own way is a PITA.

And the last time I heard someone talk about X, he was saying it's two decades behind in terms of what games require.

Like it or not, there has to be a single Linux distro with a single specific setup if you want companies to support Linux at all.

Re:fooled me

[Goaway]

The reason your programs all work is that everybody is forced to live with the limitations and don't actually make the kind of programs that would have big problems with the different distros.

Like, for instance, closed-source modern games.

Re:fooled me

[Anonymous Coward]

"No, it isn't. You target SDL, OpenAL, et cetera. They work fine on the popular distributions, i.e. the ones you have to care about."

What about reliable unified sound support, hows that comming along?

Re:fooled me

[PeterBrett]

What about reliable unified sound support, hows that comming along?

Uh, that's why you target SDL and OpenAL. Using the power of libraries, they take care of that for you.

Re:Similar to what killed OS/2

[drinkypoo]

OS/2 2.x+ had excellent Windows compatability up to the Win32s API's, which gave many developers little reason to target it with native versions of their code.

You must have been running a different version of OS/2 2.1 than I was, where you had to install Windows 3.1 under OS/2 in order to GET that compatibility, and it further shit itself regularly.

There is no fanboy more tiresome than an OS/2 fanboy, and I say this as a former Amigan (I know, I know, I don't look like a newt.) Seriously, we're talking about a two-bit unfinished OS (well, it's good for embedded systems, but the GUI is a joke, I don't care how much you love the PM, it is seriously a featureless antique today) created by an evil corporation. I know I'm not the only one who remembers that the service contract for the holocaust management equipment (the concentration camp management computers) was serviced straight out of Armonk. How can you summon such enthusiasm for such a half-assed operating system? Just because it's stable if you never ever even use the GUI? I had a friend who even ran X on top of OS/2, and didn't run OS/2 apps. Fail, fail.

I don't follow

[Jorl17]

I can't seem to follow this, nor get it straight in my mind.

It all started as rumors such as this one.

But, then, they announced that it was official and that Valve had announced that it would be launching a Linux version. I do not recall seeing any actual Valve announcement, but this news hit Slashdot like a "Microsoft-is-dead!"-news-issue: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/its-official-steam-coming-linux
And they say:

We recently touched on one way of being a Linux gamer. Recent news that Valve Software will soon be releasing a Linux client promises to provide another option for Linux gamers. The news could not come at a better time as the world will shortly focus on gaming with the upcoming, industry-only E3 conference, the crown jewel of the gaming industry.

While there are still no details on the list of game titles that will be available, the announcement alone is reason for any Linux gamer to get excited. Steam is a content delivery system for gamers which allows you to buy and download game titles and related media, once you have the client installed.

So, how do we go from announced to "not happening". Was this "announcement" a fake? It seems like it was...otherwise someone is BS me...

Re:I don't follow

[Lunix Nutcase]

Protip: Those rumors had no basis in reality.. This is why you should not trust Phoronix as a source of reliable information in addition to their crappy benchmarks with questionable methodology.

Re:I don't follow

[smbell]

I'm not a big fan of Phoronix and it's multi-page click through articles, but saying the rumor had no basis in reality is a bit of a stretch. The short of it is there was never an official announcement. Phoronix pointed out, and many others verified, there was several references to linux in various portions of the Steam client. This all came to a bit of a frenzy as some binaries that appeared to be the early workings of a linux client were found available from a valve server. They were up for several weeks, during which several people played with them and got them to some degree of running, and then the binaries disappeared. Some, including Phoronix, speculated that this was in preparation for getting that client ready for release.

Most likely there have been several pushes to port things to linux, but never enough follow through, so there are linux compatible bits strewn all over the place.

I think I was misunderstood

[dreamchaser]

Oh I'm not a fanboy; haven't even booted OS/2 in years, and yes the compatability was at first shaky (much like Wine) then got stronger. I was just seeing a similarity here. Why develop games for Linux when many 'run OK' on Wine?

I'd LOVE to see Steam on Linux, and more games ported to Linux. I'm not sure why I was modded as flamebait when I was making a valid point that is of course open to debate.

Excuse me?

[voss]

Who is "They" and how many is a "lot"????

I use closed source nvidia drivers with no particular ethical issues.
Most linux users (more than 50%) would be perfectly happy if their favorite game
worked on linux whether it was closed source or open source, native linux or WINE.

As a linux user I will say his "holiness" Richard Stallman does not speak for me.

Re:Excuse me?

[nedlohs]

As a linux user I will say his "holiness" Richard Stallman does not speak for me.

It's GNU/Linux you heathen scum!

Re:Excuse me?

[ACS Solver]

Thank you! Same here. I identify myself as a "non-ideological Linux user". I do believe that free software is often better but for purely practical reasons. I use Linux because I find it a very solid OS, because I like the control that it gives me, I like how quickly certain command-line utilities get their respective tasks done, and because I really like KDE. That's it. I'm not using it because of some ideological or philosophical reasons, I have no problem with also using Windows 7, which I find to be a pretty good OS too. I certainly have no problem with using closed-source drivers on Linux or running the occasional proprietary application through Wine.

I used to like Stallman and the FSF when I thought they're basically Linux advocacy. I don't like them now because they're essentially about philosophy and politics, not about the practical side of software. And because of how their actions are indeed often similar to a hardliner religious group.

Re:Excuse me?

[TheNumberless]

So he should stop using his browser of choice because if he doesn't, he may someday have to stop using his browser of choice.

Re:Serious gamers

[thousandinone]

A contradiction in terms? On what do you base that claim exactly? Someone who has a crime on their record is a criminal, regardless of whether they're actively breaking the law or not. If you've ever paid a speeding ticket rather than (successfully) contesting it in court, you are by definition a law-abiding criminal.

Similarly, Anyone who takes any form of game seriously would meet the definition of 'serious gamer;' professional sports come to mind, as well as the 'serious business' gaming crowd. And one can be dedicated without being serious, just as one can take something seriously without being particularly dedicated to it.

How many is "a lot of people"?

[Rogerborg]

Since all y'all are going to use anecdotarithmetic to prove that there are over 13 billion Linux users ready to hand over their hard earned allowance^W earnings to Steam, I'll go ahead and use the same standard of evidence to show why it's not so.

In an in depth poll of household machines (100% of responders replied), I have discovered: 1 x Ubuntu 9.10 desktop, never used for gaming; 1 x Ubuntu 10.04 netbook, never used for gaming; 1 x Ubuntu 10.04 / XP desktop used for gaming, with Steam installed on the XP partition, and a total Frankenstein clusterfuck of bleeding edge Wine and shattered corpses Windows games installed and then abandoned on Ubuntu to linger on, begging for death.

Based on that conclusive survey, I think the market for Steam on Linux is you and Captain Sweatpants over there, and I'm pretty sure Captain Sweatpants secretly has an XP partition anyway.

OS/2 Warp

[ckblackm]

I think hes talking about the OS/2 Warp versions.... version's 3 and 4. There was a blue spine version 3 that included the windows code (red spine did not). And then Warp 4 included the windows code. (I just installed v4 on an old omnibook 800ct just for giggles). Actually, OS/2 is still being developed as ecomstation. You can see it at www.ecomstation.com

serious linux users

[OrangeTide]

Casual linux users dual-boot their systems, serious linux users go for a big uptime.
Serious gamers who are also serious linux users have two machines.

Re:Serious gamers

[L4t3r4lu5]

A very accurate synopsis! Now, i wonder if you could help me with a definition of the word "pedant." An example of a "pedant" in action may help.

(I'll take that tongue out of my cheek, now.)

Re:Serious gamers

[FatdogHaiku]

"law-abiding criminals"

Thanks for reminding me my state has primary elections tomorrow...

Oh enough with that thing

[Sycraft-fu]

Seriously, Linux users cling to that as their one and only piece of proof that they pay, not realizing how pathetic it is. There are some major, major problems with that:

1) People made it a cross platform thing, they went out of their way to give more to "Show how good $platform is!" Fine, but that has nothing to do with their normal purchasing habits. They gave more this one time but that doesn't mean they regularly spend money on games.

2) More importantly, all the numbers are totally pathetic. Linux users paid $13 for 5 games. That is $2.60 per game. Are you fucking kidding me with that? That is supposed to show it as a valid market? Yes, Windows users gave less. Why? Because only the cheapskates were buying. Everyone else owned the games they wanted. I bought World of Goo back when it launched for $20 and considered it a deal. I paid more for one single title in that pack than Linux users paid for the whole damn thing. $20 is also a budget game title, I regularly pay more, as much as $50 for top tier titles.

So all it really shows is that Linux users are willing to spend a very small amount of money to try and "Prove there's a Linux market." Sorry, not buying the bullshit. You want to impress me? Show me that Linux users would pay retail for each of those games ($40-50). Yes I realize that's above the Windows price since they are indy, however that shows that the market is so hungry for games, they'll pay a lot. Also show me that they'll pay when they just want a game to play, not when they are specifically trying to have a content to make Linux look good.

Re:Oh enough with that thing

[sammyF70]

1) shit...someone must have forgotten to send me the memo. I bought the Humble Bundle because the games ranged from good to absolutely amazing, were DRM free, native to the OS I use, and I was able to buy them without breaking my bank account (I paid what I was able to pay at that time, and would have paid more if I had been able to). I didn't know I was doing it to "show how good $platform" is.

2) So your argument is : "Real Men Pay More"? kind of vain, isn't it? I guess you wouldn't buy any of the ~cheap~ windows games that are available on Steam, in fear someone might see you?!

my own experience :
I knew WoG, I already owned the Penumbra trilogy (and in a side note, I've already pre-ordered the next game by Frictional ... just to "prove how Good Linux is" apparently), but I had never heard of Lugaru, Gish or Aquaria before (nor of Samorost for that matter). The Humble Bundle gave me the opportunity to get those games (admitedly for a rather low sum), and I ended up playing through 3 of the 4 games I didn't know ... something that rarely happens when I buy more expensive titles ( mostly from Steam by the way).

And One Last Thing : paying 50$ to show off your taste in OS (or how large your bank account is) is incredibly stupid.