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Nuns Donate Their Brains to Alzheimer's Research
Many Catholic religious orders are participating in a long range Alzheimer's disease study. Rush University's Religious Orders Study began in 1993 and tracks the participants' mental abilities through yearly memory testing. In addition to the annual tests, the study subjects agree to donate their brains. From the article: "The researchers sought members of religious orders, hoping they would be willing to donate and would not have children or spouses interfering with that arrangement at the last minute. More than 1,100 nuns, priests and brothers across the country representing a wide range of ethnic groups are taking part."
They will be much more useful than yours, obviously.
why not? might give insight into why people are drawn to specific topics... it also will be fairly good baseline since those in these orders will have documented and controlled diets, so will form a good base for comparing against each other at least.
Abby.
Abby what?
Abby Normal.
Are these really the brains we want as our basis for research?
You think yours would be better somehow?
The data's already been copied and reconstructed. The physical substrate is useless.
If we want to understand better why the substrate degrades, then, well, yeah.
~ Whence do you come, slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
Why not? Like it or not, it is fairly normal to believe in religion.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
How about we let them use yours instead? Get a donor card - Monty Python style.
Humor from a Genetically Molested Mind
Nice trie, zombie scum! Your little charade won't fool me, you want this grey matter you've got to work for it. NO FREEBIES!
How knows? Maybe a lot can be learned from women who choose a celibate, isolated, and cloistered lifestyle. And their penchant for ridiculous clothing (for most)? That's got to be worth something.
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
Rap his knuckles with a heavy wooden ruler. Don't think that's doing to do much for research.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
The nuns heard that helping science was a good habit to get into.
"I'm not a quack, I'm a mad scientist! There's a difference." - Dr. Cockroach
Given that the environmental structure is common to all persons at the location, it should remove some of the variables that exist and allow researchers to focus on the changes over time with regards to the disease itself rather than the differences that would be experienced with a geographical larger study.
Maybe a lot can be learned from women who choose a celibate, isolated, and cloistered lifestyle
And remain there. An older coworker of mine "stole" his wife from a convent. He actually managed to de-nunnify a nun and marry her :). Despite being one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, we always joke that he's going to Hell for that one regardless :).
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Am I the only one who read 'Nuts' instead of 'Nuns'?
Why your question? Perhaps you are not a fan of religion in general, or catholicism in particular? Like the rest of us, they probably believe every religion they don't belong to is misguided.
Unlike the rest of us, they have made the extraordinary decision to dedicate their lives completely to the service of others. If somehow a bias for altruism sneaks into some neurologic baseline, perhaps DSM-V will someday list greed as a psychosis. No other problems seem obvious to me.
I doubt monastic brains are hardwired for superstition any more than those of the general population. Of those slashdotters who believe that we are visited by extra-terrestrials, how many came to that conclusion based on the forensic evidence and proven physics?
Yep. Lot of caring people in this thread, who bash other peoples beliefs, while I'm sure they tout that they're very tolerant.
Let me know if your brainwave applies to MS as well. Two monasteries around here have members who donate.
Om, nomnomnom...
What if they discover the other way around?
Plus with this data set you would not be able to tell, simply by the definition of the dataset. I swear what do they teach at the jr/sr high level these days... Oh and I learned scientific rigor AT a christian school. Want an F in science? Dont follow the scientific method. You would have got an F on that paper. As your whole assumption can not be proven with that data set. You are trying to apply science to something that can not be proven. There is such a thing as an intractable problem. Such as 'this statement is false'. Unprovable.
Blind Man!
I wonder if god will be up there waiting for him with brass-knuckles on to knock him on back down to hell! :)
I agree with some of the others that a person who can constrain themselves like that would be interesting to study. I wonder what the comparison between a person like that and a prisoner's brain would look like.
How is their decision to stay in a religiously themed communal housing structure any different (from the standpoint of the cultural norm) from your decision to avoid sunlight and social interactions, and to live in your mother's basement collecting manga, video game paraphernalia, and a super huge collection of raunchy porn locked away on an encrypted filesystem?
These people are motivated by their religious precepts to help other people, and believe in a spiritual afterlife. As such, they are less concerned about what happens to their bodies after they die than some other people, and more concerned about how they can continue helping people after they are gone (at least the ones that aren't pedophile priests anyway). Their brains get Alzheimers just like everyone elses, and such a huge turnout (over 1000 individuals in the study, for something that requires you to donate your brain, is a pretty huge turnout) means that there is a considerable chance that significant findings could be obtained through the study. That kind of thing alone merits some form of hat tipping.
Why is everybody poking fun that they are all celibate, instead of praising them for their altruism in this respect? I mean, it's not like the average slashdot reader gets busy every friday night in his mother's basement you know. (no, Palmula Handerson and a bottle of Jergins doesn't count.)
The whole process is annoying and gross and their doing it to help people. I'm no fan of Catholicism or the Abrahamic God, but they're doing good.
Why not? Like it or not, it is fairly normal to believe in religion.
I don't think that has anything to do with it. I remember reading elsewhere that nuns are ideal test subjects for longitudinal studies because the affect of a lot of independent variables can be eliminated or reduced when compared to people who have a more normal lifestyle.
U of Minn. researchers are doing the same (sort of) thing... here's a whole radio show about it!
http://blogs.wnyc.org/radiolab/2010/05/05/vanishing-words/
Apparently loss of vocabulary and sentence complexity (i.e. number of ideas communicated per sentence) are early warning signs for alzheimers. Agatha Christie's later works show signs that her capacity was dropping, too.
..Alzheimer is consequence of too much religious brain-wash?
As far as my grandmas go, going to the church too much does fry your neurons!
No, it is a consequence of too much internet brainwashing. You anti-religious trolls all sound the same. Do you go through a training course somewhere?
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
because of their sample selection. If religiosity is hard-wired in the brain http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/04/04/neurotheology/ then these researchers have selected a sample that will make their results applicable to... nuns and other religiodelusionals.
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
As someone with religious tolerance and have actually have worked with catholic Priests, Nuns, Monks, Bishops, etc... A lot of these people are Smart and have PHD and MDs in many areas of science and often with other areas of study as well. Don't let the traditional dress fool you, these people are actually well educated with sharp minds.
Just because you don't agree with their religion or religion in general, don't let yourself think for a second that these people are any less then you.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
The reality is that nuns are a very good group of subjects, since they not only donate their brains after death - which is essential in determining AD status, but we have full medical histories on them for many decades.
None of our current studies focus on religion. The major risk factors are genetic and linked to diet and lifestyle.
Thanks for helping, sisters!
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
In an effort to help "find a cure" we're doing the same. But it means a little more to us than most because apparently, we have a family history of this illness. My great grandfather was said to have been "crazy." The reason is because he ended up living at the uni where he was teaching, he wouldn't go home anymore (in the 1800s). So everyone just left him alone and as he got older and more "crazy" he got worse. Eventually he did die (leaving a LOT of written works behind because that was his obsession (writing poetry and about historical figures) - probably due to Alzheimer's). So in the late 90's my grandma started to get squirrely too. Its pretty amazing that in about 3 years time someone can totally change. So now in her ~ mid 90s, she's nothing more than a 5 year old girl who you can't reason with, you can't control (she is too strong), doesn't feel pain (when she is hurt she doesn't complain), medicine doesn't take its full effect (our family is very 'resistant' to drugs and liqueur) and worst of all, doesn't sleep at night.
So for all those reasons and more, hopefully, she'll be 1% of what helps to "cure" the disease or help contain it.
My abilities are only limited by my imagination
The way I heard this story was that a group of researchers were seeking brains for the study of Alzheimer's and they got NONE.
This just in: according to the results of this research, Alzheimers is given by God as punishment for sins, such as molesting young boys, blowing millions (billions) of dollars on enormous houses of worship, and inciting hatred towards Muslims and sometimes even other Christian denominations.
How is their decision to stay in a religiously themed communal housing structure any different (from the standpoint of the cultural norm) from your decision to avoid sunlight and social interactions, and to live in your mother's basement collecting manga, video game paraphernalia, and a super huge collection of raunchy porn locked away on an encrypted filesystem?
Maybe it's got something to do with a diet of anything other than Twinkies?
if I were a zombie, I'd create a fake medical research facility and ask people do donate their brains.
But seriously guys, you are going way, way out there in this nun hate.
Fuck you.
No, seriously: Fuck You.
Just one of these women does more real, genuine capital 'G' Good in a week than a land-fill of snarky Internet tough guys like you will do in your entire life.
Just one of these women does more real, genuine capital 'G' Good in a week than a land-fill of snarky Internet tough guys like you will do in your entire life.
These women would do Good even if they weren't part of an ancient, evil, lying, murderous cult; more, actually, because they wouldn't be recruiting into that cult.
If only they started making pornography and donating the proceeds, both biological and monetary, to stem cell research... mmmm, delicious nuns...
Like the rest of us, they probably believe every religion they don't belong to is misguided.
Speak for yourself. Intolerance of other religions and an assumption of absolute truth are largely errors of the Abrahamic religions.
I doubt monastic brains are hardwired for superstition any more than those of the general population.
I'm sure they are, actually, but it doesn't matter that they are not representative of the general population.
I can think of other parts of nuns that might be useful for research, since they've hardly been used.
Old Catholic school joke: Q:What kind of sex do priests have? A: Nun.
Boy we were really naive back in those days.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Yes its called COLLEGE
Of course, that's why he's already donated his.
I was responding to a post that questioned using nuns, assuming the poster was objecting to the 'abnormality' of religious belief.
You respond by saying, that's not it at all, nuns make better test subjects. But he wasn't implying they were better, he was implying they were worse. I assumed he was referring to nuns religious beliefs as the reason not to use them. I guess I just don't understand your reply. You do not address my question: why did the original poster claim nuns would make bad test subjects? Your answer explains why they are good test subjects.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Amen
And where does your intolerance and assumption of truth come from?
Hopefully you're not representative of the general population either.
After all it sure seems that a world full of people like you would be worse than a world full of people as altruistic as these nuns.
Such as?
Honest question, no intention of trolling. It's my understanding that nuns largely remove themselves from normal society, and as such don't really do much good in the way I understand it.
Note that as an atheist my definition of "good", especially with a "capital G" doesn't include religious functions that don't benefit the society outside their environment, such as praying, singing and baking cookies to sustain themselves.
so this then?
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/154822
How will they be resurrected for Judgement Day when their brains are missing?
Stick Men
You know, it is possible to scorn religion without scorning the religious.
Let's step away from religion for a moment. I can't STAND strong accents that to me sound like they're spoken by illiterates. "Ebonics" (Let me axs ya a kestun), Boston folks who can't pronounce Rs, southern drawls. Makes me wonder if these people never had a TV to teach them how to talk.
But I know we're all a product of our environment and also more than than sum of our parts. I may think you talk like a goofball. But I'm judging the way you sound. Not YOU personally.
Same for religion. You can bash irrational beliefs in magic sky dictators, while still loving and befriending the people who suffer under such beliefs. That's why they call it "tolerance" and not "blind acceptance".
In summary, it's rational to bash a belief, while not bashing the believer.
Operator, give me the number for 911!
Many people graduate and LEAVE college. The learning process has just begun when you get that degree, you know.
I suppose there may still be a few of those medieval-style cloisters around, but most orders of nuns today are engaged dawn to dusk in charitable works involving AIDS hospices, orphanages, care for the elderly, education, disaster relief, etc. Think less Hildegard von Bingen and more Mother Theresa of Calcutta.
Let that hatred drain out of you. It's probably good therapy.
G.T.F. Outttahere
That I would consider a good thing indeed, so long that they don't follow Mother Theresa's footsteps.
All I've read about her makes her considerably more evil than good in my view. She expressed a very bizarre love for poverty. Not for poor people and their problems, but poverty. As in she seems to have believed that being in a seriously screwed up situation of abject poverty is a good and virtuous thing, and that her task is to sort of bask in that atmosphere without trying to fix it.
A quote of hers that expresses this view is: "I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people."
From what I've read, her care consisted mostly of prayer, offered no real help, medicine, painkillers, and involved reuse of syringes, when she was getting tons of donations that would have allowed her to do much better. People who were curable were just let to lie in a bed without painkiller or any real assistance. That's not good, that's greatly harmful. And combined with the amount of donations she failed to use use for helping people, and that seem to have ended up in a bank account at the Vatican, makes her greatly evil in my view.
Then there's the whole railing against birth control thing, but even where she could have helped in a way that wouldn't have conflicted with her religion, she still did a really horrible job.
I hope that if there are any nuns trying to help that they do what she should have actually been doing, helping people, instead of what she did.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
You know, it is possible to scorn religion without scorning the religious. ... Same for religion. You can bash irrational beliefs in magic sky dictators, while still loving and befriending the people who suffer under such beliefs. That's why they call it "tolerance" and not "blind acceptance".
Odd. You've just successfully argued against yourself, by bashing what a person believes in but saying it's all okay, here have hugs and cookies, and saying by the way, your beliefs suck. Tolerance is about not stepping on someones toes, or disagreeing with what they believe in while not stating that they 'suffer' from something.
Om, nomnomnom...
Such as participating in a long term Alzheimer's research project.
That may not be a massive amount of 'Good' by whatever metric you want to use. Its still more good that I know the nuns in question have done then say ... you.
Speak for yourself. Intolerance of other religions and an assumption of absolute truth are largely errors of the Abrahamic religions.
>
Clearly there are some religions that are more tolerant of people who believe other things, but for the most part, religions are mutually exclusive. You can be a nice Buddhist or something and maybe tolerate everyone, but that doesn't mean that if Buddhism's ultimate world view is right that somehow the other religions can be right. Nirvana isn't heaven. And there is either one, none, or many gods, but you can't have all of them at the same time.
If there was a religion that had at its central tenet that all religions are somehow right, it still would be either right or wrong. There is nothing inherently strange or about pointing out that one choice in a mutually exclusive situation is either True or False, that's just logic. Certain adherents to certain religions might be nicer about it in mixed company, but unless they are insincere, their very adherence to their doctrine is an assertion of their belief in one or more absolute truths.
And of course, you know as well as I do that religious intolerance is definitely not confined to the Semitic religions, they just happen to be the world's largest and most influential ones, so they tend to blot out everyone else.
It doesn't really matter anyway. Tolerance is not inherently right or wrong, its just a lot more comfortable if you happen to be in the minority. It has a value based only on the facts of the reality that we live in and our personal goals in relation to those facts.
(And yes, I prefer tolerance. In fact, many of the Semitic religions have that as a core value, but that doesn't mean I am right or that the religions are followed.)
I do a lot of work with my local parish's rectory and convent (not a believer myself, but a 20-something "computer person" willing to lend a hand), and the nuns' daily activities involve organizing soup kitchens, visiting nursing homes, arranging excursions for people who live in group homes for the mentally disabled (taking them bowling, out for ice cream, whatever), tutoring, all in secular settings. I suppose they project the image of Catholicism (they wear a 'modernized' habit and veil), but the institutions for which they volunteer are not, by and large, part of any religious organization. There are cloistered orders, but those are rare. When I was a wee lass, the nuns could sing along to the Backstreet Boys. No one is safe from the reaches of pop culture, apparently. ;)
How are you so sure of that? Did you hack into Santa's computer and get to see my good and bad lists?
Also, RobotRunAmok's post implied that they do good deeds on a regular basis. Considering my understanding of that they live in isolation and as such whatever they do doesn't really affect society, it seems to be perfectly fair to me to ask what kind of social good they do. Note that I don't think there's anything really wrong with separating yourself from society and quietly living out the rest of your days. I just don't think there's anything very commendable in it either. It's neutral, neither it does any harm nor it contributes anything.
Also nowhere did I imply that I think I'm a bigger contributor to society, sheesh. I'm asking a question, not doing a comparison of who earned how many points.
they are taking part to prove God causes Alzheimers like all other nice things...
A cop pulls over a car load of nuns. The cop says, "Sister, this is a 55 MPH highway. Why are you going so slow?"
The Sister replies, "Sir, I saw a lot of signs that said 41, not 55."
The cop answers, "Oh, Sister, that's not the speed limit, that's the name of the highway you are on!"
The Sister says, "Oh! Silly me! Thanks for letting me know. I'll be more careful."
At this point, the cop looks in the backseat where the other nuns are shaking and trembling.
The cop asks, "Excuse me, Sister, what's wrong with your friends back there? They are shaking something terrible."
The Sister answers, "Oh, we just got off Highway 101."
Well, then perhaps you clarify things for me then. Before making my first post, I checked wikipedia just in case, and got this:
To me this implies that a nun's access to the real world may not exist at all, and if it does may be quite limited. Their primary duty would be to a monastery, and if they get to work in a soup kitchen it's because the monastery itself allows it, and that sisters and not nuns are the ones that undertake large amounts of social work.
So, given your experience, is the explanation on Wikipedia accurate?
"I remember the days when boys wanted to enter the Priesthood.
Rather than the other way round." - Private Eye
Are these really the brains we want as our basis for research?
You think yours would be better somehow?
Mine would be since I never use it, having found something else to think with.
Speaking of which I'm very disappointed this headline wasn't code for sexy women in nun outfits giving head to old guys. I've got a fetish, you see.
Well that's about the same way the religious are 'tolerant' of atheists ("Oh you poor misguided soul. Well you're going to hell unless you convert but you're a good person"), gays ("hate the sin not the sinner" [except half the time that one ends with "murder the 'sinner', claim he was coming on to me, watch me get a slap on the wrist from a jury full of rednecks"]) and anyone else they disagree with, and while I don't think we should stoop to their level if they can't take a little sassy talk in their direction they shouldn't be part of the archaic, hate-mongering, little-boy-diddling, woman stoning, suicide bombing, abortion doctor killing, regressive, pointless thought cancer that's eating our society and enabling assholes to run-amok (not that they wouldn't anyway, but they hardly need the help) the world over.
Religion is the bane of rational thought and one of the biggest barriers to continued progress we face today. The sooner we give up superstitions created to give comfort as we cowered, ignorant in the desert, scared of the thunder and baffled by the rain the sooner we can reach for the stars as a united people. So while I don't hate (most) religious people I do hate religion and I do feel sorry for those trapped in that mental box
Well, I can tell you my firsthand experience of working with Mother Theresa and her religious order of Nuns in Calcutta and Haiti. They do actually use medicine and do everything possible to help the people they care for. Many of whom would just slowly die on the street. They do run hospices as well, which are basically the same as our hospices in the USA. They are a place where the terminally ill can die with dignity and minimal pain and suffering. I don't know why you are lashing out against this wonderful amazing person and those that have continued her work. You seem to be very angry towards Catholicism in your reply, heaven knows you may have your reason. Very good people can do very bad things. And very bad people can do very good things. So with many more people in an organization, how much more good can evil organizations do and more evil good organizations can do. It would be a very simplistic and altogether immature world view to believe a single person, much less a whole organization was 100% either good or evil. Learn to call the bad parts of a thing bad, and the good parts of it good. The world will be much better off for it.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
When parts of your body are potentially valuable to society, they're lost unless you donate them, which is what this story is about.
So, in this case, nothing of value was lost.
What's "Troll" about that?
Apologies for the delay in replying. It's a matter of misapplied terminology, of which I was ignorant until I went and looked it up. So, thank you. :)
I can tell you that the sisters in my parish belong to the Franciscan Sisters of Saint Joseph, so they are technically "sisters" adhering to that order's charter (which stresses social service), not "nuns". Reading the article, it seems like there is a similar confusion of the terms. The article mentions a participant from the Congregation of St. Joseph, and from the CSJ's website it doesn't seem like they're a cloistered order, either, so the article and headline calling them "nuns" is similarly incorrect. Some of the participants may very well be nuns, but clearly not all of them. You are right: *nuns* would have very little access to the outside world. The study participants/donors aren't (all) nuns.
Funny. Very tolerant view, religion is the bane of rational thought, yet I'll bet that you'll find that many members of the scientific community are religious in some way. Or you can look at heavily religious countries(heya Israel) who have more phd's and published papers per-capita than anywhere else in the world.
Religion isn't the problem. The problem is religion which has never had reformations, or branches which actively encourage people into things which aren't the norm of society. For the sake of argument, the majority in the US are Christian or some flavor of it. And those that aren't are religious(or spiritual) in some way. From what I've read you're just as backwards, regressive and probably bigoted as the people you complain about.
Om, nomnomnom...
"They do run hospices as well, which are basically the same as our hospices in the USA They are a place where the terminally ill can die with dignity and minimal pain and suffering.
The Lancet and The British medical Journal both disagree with your anecdotal assesment of the quality of care offered by the missionaries of charity. Like many fanatical Catholics Mother Theresa was a strong adherent to the masochistic belief that the path to enlightenment is through poverty and suffering.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
"the majority in the US are Christian or some flavor of it. And those that aren't are religious(or spiritual) in some way"
Except for the 10% who identify themselves as atheists.
"Or you can look at heavily religious countries(heya Israel) "
What do you call a jew that does not belive in god? - Answer - A jew. Israel is much closer to a typical European state than the US when it comes to religious belief, about one third of Israeli's label themselves as either atheist or agnostic.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
"No, it is a consequence of too much internet brainwashing.You anti-religious trolls all sound the same. Do you go through a training course somewhere?"
You mean like this one? - No, thankfully we don't.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Pretty much everything she says goes against what you say here. I'm quite sure that she has helped some people, but according to herself, the way she does it is very twisted. Some choice quotes from her address at the National Prayer Breakfast:
Here you can see somebody who is obviously not on painkillers, and won't be, because the pain is the "kiss of Jesus" and evidently a good thing. I'm sure she'll provide a bed, and water and maybe some food, while leaving this person to die in pain while speaking about how beautiful all that is. Obviously there can't be any talk of euthanasia either. This lady would have been much better off with a normal social worker.
Note the latest part. She's intentionally withholding food, not because she doesn't have more, or can't afford it, or anything like that. No, it's because apparently for her the image of hungry people sharing some food is beautiful. She seems to be more interested in marvelling at that "beauty" and making a point about sharing than in really helping people.
Outright admission that the religion is the priority.
Her own writings show that what she seeks is not to really help people. It's to sort of immerse herself in their misery.
Sure we do. They are in excellent condition. Stored indoors most of the time. Only one owner. A sweet old lady who only used them on Sunday for going to church.
Since nuns are Brides of Christ, that makes God the ex Father in law. Ow.
'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
I was responding to a post that questioned using nuns, assuming the poster was objecting to the 'abnormality' of religious belief.
You respond by saying, that's not it at all, nuns make better test subjects. But he wasn't implying they were better, he was implying they were worse. I assumed he was referring to nuns religious beliefs as the reason not to use them. I guess I just don't understand your reply. You do not address my question: why did the original poster claim nuns would make bad test subjects? Your answer explains why they are good test subjects.
Ummm, yes...
He was probably just steering the discussion in the "correct" direction, as opposed to replying to your question.
testing out my trending skills
How did he "steal" her away? I assume that you're being figurative. Was he passionate and persistent? Was he more than she ever expected from a guy?
testing out my trending skills
Meh, I'm agnostic myself. Actually, I'm not really agnostic or even athiestic. What do you call it when you don't even think the answer to the question "does God exist?" could possibly be important? Believe if you like, or don't, it doesn't matter. I just don't like it when people are needlessly and illogically antagonistic.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Again you are making the mistake of conflating your opinions on her spiritual beliefs with the good that her charity provides. You disagree with her thoughts on God, leading you to believe those thoughts are causing her to intentionally inflict suffering on people already suffering. Do they have enough doctors? No, they don't. Do they have enough medicine? No, they don't. OD they have any of the advanced diagnostic equipment that modern western medicine has? Again No. They do their best with what they have. They would do better if they had more.
If they had a reputation for mistreating or inflicting further pain on the patients, they wouldn't come any more. Parents wouldn't be lined up outside at 5 am to seek help for their sick children.
You just can't seem to accept that someone with beliefs you strongly disagree with could be doing any good. That's not a very mature worldview
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
What do you call it when you don't even think the answer to the question "does God exist?" could possibly be important? Believe if you like, or don't, it doesn't matter.
I'd call it apathetic, but apathy has negative connotations.
I just don't like it when people are needlessly and illogically antagonistic.
Exactly. Me too.
testing out my trending skills
That's it! I'm a militant apathetist. My motto shall be "Even God doesn't care if he exists or not."
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
You're arguing semantics. If I can think someone suffers from prostate cancer and not be prejudiced against them, then I can also think they suffer from religion and be tolerant and accepting of them. I'm talking about the thing, not the person.
Operator, give me the number for 911!
Clearly there are some religions that are more tolerant of people who believe other things, but for the most part, religions are mutually exclusive. You can be a nice Buddhist or something and maybe tolerate everyone, but that doesn't mean that if Buddhism's ultimate world view is right that somehow the other religions can be right.
Oh, there are many more possibilities. Some religions believe that all religions (including their own) are incomplete and flawed because human understanding is limited. To such religions, Christianity is just one more flawed religion among many; practice it and maybe it helps you fulfill your purpose in life. The Abrahamic religions, however, claim absolute truth and require worship of a specific God and in specific ways. They postulate that Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed were unique, and that their religious texts were handed down by God. Other religions believe that while Christianity may or may not be true as far as it goes, it is irrelevant because there is a greater truth.
Thinking that "religions are mutually exclusive" is itself a fundamental error of the Abrahamic religions. The Abrahamic religions are exclusive of all others because they claim complete and ultimate truth and authority. But there is nothing "mutual" about it.
It doesn't really matter anyway. Tolerance is not inherently right or wrong, [...] (And yes, I prefer tolerance. In fact, many of the Semitic religions have that as a core value, but that doesn't mean I am right or that the religions are followed.)
It "doesn't really matter", but it's a "core value"? See, you put your finger on it: while the Abrahamic religions claim to be tolerant, they are inherently intolerant.
:^D Seriously?? You like the label?
It is interesting that you're taking on a new label, assuming that you're relatively serious. I'm also looking for a new label, but it's hard to come up with something reasonable.
testing out my trending skills
I see that you mentioned pants a couple of times in the blog entry about obligations. I take it that you like to wear alternative clothing. Am I right?
testing out my trending skills
I just think the idea of being militantly apathetic is funny.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Let that hatred drain out of you. It's probably good therapy.
Good advice; you should give it to the Pope and his cardinals and bishops, who call anybody who disagrees with their theology "evil", "immoral", "not fully human", and "disordered".
:^D I never thought of it in terms of "militanty".
What you say reminds me of that Futurama episode, where they encounter Neutrals. I still remember, "Beige alert! Beige alert!".
testing out my trending skills
Well if it comes down to one of the two, you're better off going with the internet. What you think of as religion is 2,000 year old bullshit that some iron-age twits made up to explain the world around them. The internet is, likewise, full of bullshit, but at least it's made up by modern era people who have the benefit of a couple thousand years of scientific discovery.