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NASA Preps Closest-Ever Sun Mission
coondoggie writes "NASA today said it had picked five experiments that will ride aboard one of its most ambitious space missions to explore the Sun. The Solar Probe, a car-sized spacecraft, is scheduled to launch no later than 2018 and will fly closer to the Sun's surface than any other probe, NASA stated. Ultimately the spacecraft's goals are to help scientists understand why the sun's outer atmosphere so much hotter than the sun's visible surface and what propels the solar wind that affects Earth and our solar system, NASA said."
I don't see all the fuss. Why not just go at night?
Flexible bare-metal recovery for Linux/UNIX
And how are they gonna shield that probe from the heat? Let me guess, they fly at night? :D
"will fly closer to the Sun's surface than any other probe" ...unless the wings are made of wax....
...I hope they don't decide to call it Icarus
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
Ultimately the spacecraft's goals are to help scientists understand why the sun's outer atmosphere so much hotter than the sun's visible surface and what propels the solar wind ...
I thought they'd figured that out (recently): Vibrations of the solar magnetic field line loops pump energy into the plasma fraction of the gas above the visible "surface", heating it. Reconnection of the lines cause the new loops to expand like released springs, catapulting the entrapped plasma outward.
Didn't that work out once they finished the math on the details?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Actually, if you RTFA, it says the project will burn money as if it flew close to the sun.
all that it discovers is a booming voice shouting BURN WITH ME!
Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
How does "NASA" SAY anything? This is like "The White House Said..."
Computational Chemistry products and services.
Tinfoil-hat comedy gold.
maybe it's just our lack of a genuine atmosphere? it's doubtful anything will get close enough to the sun to goof it up, but there's no doubt that we'll try.
From various C&H cartoons, a bunch of his Dad's quotes are collected here: http://elise.com/quotes/a/ask_calvins_dad.php Q. Why does the sun set? A. It's because hot air rises. The sun's hot in the middle of the day, so it rises high in the sky. In the evening then, it cools down and sets. Q. Why does it go from east to west? A. Solar wind. Q. Why does the sky turn red as the sun sets? A. That's all the oxygen in the atmosphere catching fire. Q. Where does the sun go when it sets? A. The sun sets in the west. In Arizona actually, near Flagstaff. That's why the rocks there are so red. Q. Don't the people get burned up? A. No, the sun goes out as it sets. That's why it's dark at night. Q. Doesn't the sun crush the whole state as it lands? A. Ha ha, of course not. Hold a quarter up. See, the sun's just about the same size. Q. I thought I read that the sun was really big. A. You can't believe everything you read, I'm afraid.
...because NASA is about space exploration, not making horse shoes.
Vibrations of the solar magnetic field line loops pump energy into the plasma fraction of the gas above the visible "surface", heating it. Reconnection of the lines cause the new loops to expand like released springs, catapulting the entrapped plasma outward.
Discoveries like these really make you wonder and marvel at the incredible physics of the universe. I mean, who makes up all this stuff? It's just incredible to see atoms and molecules self-align themselves according to pre-planned rules like gravity, electromagnetism etc in a seeminly random way to create what is.
...will they set the controls for the heart of the sun?
Because they're too busy trying to figure out the SPACE LAZORS!
Sheesh, does that moron even know what a laser is?
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When do we land a human on the Sun? It's only exploration if it's done by humans.
Not only is the earth resource limited, so are all of the planets. We must terraform and colonize the Sun!
This video and it's maker deserve to be called stupid.
As they don't know that the white dot is a planet Venus or Mercury.
That person also doesn't know comets and meteor from background noise on the SOHO image.
This video is not even worth my time wasting it on this video.
"...what propels the solar wind that affects Earth and our solar system."
The Sun: "Shoo fly, you bother me...Pffffffff"
Solar Probe: (Fawoooosh!)
NASA: "Well....Shit. There goes $250 million."
And a depressed robot to open it.
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
They should name the probe "Bitch". Then all the captions will read, "Sun of a Bitch".
Table-ized A.I.
To get even closer they'd have to fluid-cool the heat shield to stop it melting. So is there a faster way to cool a fluid than by passive radiation? Say, converting the energy into a laser, or some form of luminescence?
Presumably, they're trying to make measurements that will confirm (or contradict) that theoretical work.
They should name the probe "Bitch". Then all the captions will read, "Sun of a Bitch".
Lame.
My only question is if the probe runs solaris?
A "the Golden Apples of the sun" type of mision?
Or a "ice missile delivery system" type of mission?
Please. Mod funny. please? (or offtopic)
*** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
Can't you dipshits go back to Digg?
I liked the annual September flamefest better when it was Usenet vs AOL.
"NASA today said it had picked five experiments that will ride aboard one of its most ambitious space missions to explore the Sun. The Solar Probe, a car-sized spacecraft"..............
So what kinda car is it compared to? A hoopdie like an El Dorado II? Or something more contemporary like a Tata?
Or maybe a Nova, perhaps? I'd think that'd be a "no go", IMHO, but then, this IS NASA we're talking about........
Then give it a talking motorcycle.
For some reason both the article and the probe's homepage skips mentioning how close to the sun this probe will approach. It is based on an earlier, rejected mission that would go as close as 4 solar radii, and to make things cheaper it will go to a closest distance of 9.5 solar radii. That is the perihelion distance - the orbit will be elliptical. For comparison, Mercury's never gets closer to the sun than about 61 times times the radius of the sun.
I'm not about to waste my time doing the math here, but I'm relatively certain that anything "twice the size of Jupiter" that was actually dense enough to be a solid (comets are solid) would actually be a star, not a comet...
Jupiter itself is pretty close to being a star. Something twice as big and far more massive? Well one thing is certain: it's not going to be very icy.
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
First pics are back:
http://rookery.s3.amazonaws.com/828500/828687_2c76_625x1000.jpg
Jupiter would need to be about 75 times as massive to become a star...
I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays. On a Friday evening no less...
I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
from what I know, all that is based on heavy numerical simulations (prone to errors in the assumptions, lack of more thorough numerics, etc). The simulations are based on parameters determined from measurements made from distances longer than those that will be reached with this new probe, and on assumptions also extrapolated from everything observed "from here". Summed up, that explanation could be right or completely wrong. We have to measure more and from smaller distances.
The Solar Probe, a car-sized spacecraft
So is this the flying car that we all have been waiting for?
Where can I get one, and what does it cost?
Does it look like something out of The Jetsons?
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Exactly, pretty damn close...
Anyway, according to wikipedia the diameter of Jupiter is 142,984 km, so we use this as the radius of our "comet" to get a volume of 1.224×10^16 km^3. Using the mean density of Jupiter (1.3 g/cm^3), we get a mass of 1.623×10^28 kg.
Wikipedia lists the lower end of masses for red dwarfs as .0075 solar masses, so our hypothetical comet would be approximately one tenth the mass it would need to be to be considered a red dwarf. This is assuming the guessed density was reasonable, something I'm certainly not sure of.
Regardless, the pressure would be sufficient to ensure that the water in the core stayed in liquid form, not ice. I don't know what you'd call this body. It doesn't fit any definition of "comet" that I can find due to it's absurd size, and it's definitely not a planet either (comets highly elliptical orbits. if this does as well then it's not clearing the neighbourhood around its orbit). I doubt something with these properties could ever even form.
No matter how you slice it, "comet twice the size of Jupiter" reeks of idiocy.
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
So, does anyone know what the trajectory is? As any rocket scientist knows, a direct (minimum energy Hoffman style) trajectory that would have them skim the surface of the sun (or even get it closer than Mercury) would require a huge amount of delta-V (and a huge rocket for a little payload, we're talking Saturn V size). That, of course is why NASA's Mercury orbiter (now approaching orbital insertion) used several (3-4?) gravity assists using both Venus and Mercury).
So what is this thing going to do? Maybe the delta-V requirements won't be as extreme (I assume it will go into a highly elliptical orbit) so perhaps some gravity assists around the inner planets will suffice. Or maybe a much more ambitious(?) plan will be used, to send it out to Jupiter whose deep gravity well could cancel its orbital momentum in one fell swoop and, if used to the extreme, would send it plummeting directly into the sun. Of course they won't but it could send it in a wide variety of orbits such as over the Sun's poles. This of course was the trajectory used by Ulysses which gave us our first views "overhead" (but at a much greater distance).
Of course if they send it out to Jupiter, the spacecraft will need to be able to survive the relative cold, low power (from the illustrations it uses solar panels) and high radiation environment (presumably the sun isn't as radioactive, just hot) as well as the extremes from a close encounter with the sun. Also the trip may be longer (but these inner planet swing-bys take time as well). So my guess is, despite the additional orbital flexibility, the additional requirements would argue against it. (On the other hand, it would be easy to add a small detachable probe that, as I mentioned before, could actually impact the sun!).
Anyone know what trajectory the will be using?
P.S. You know, the fact that the precisely tracked radio transmitting probe will end up in a highly eccentric orbit around the deepest gravity well in our solar system would really make it a great additional test for Einstein's theory of general relativity. Not that it really needs additional verification but why not?
P.P.S. The technology isn't quite ready yet but this, of course, would be a very good use of a solar sail. At the much closer distances to the sun that this probe is going, even a relatively small, inefficient sail could really be useful in changing it's trajectory. (By tacking "against" the direction of orbital motion it could fall closer to the sun). Then, with it's mission over, the same sail could blow it out into interstellar space (and as it got further from the sun, could reflect some of the light onto the probe's solar panels keeping it powered. Just thinking out loud.
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Yea, because your observation from your parents' basement of a 2-dimensional photograph of a celestial body in outer space obviously co-incides with all the science that you know yet couldn't save you if ever you relied on your primitive means to dodge said orbittal bombardment.
I laugh at how much junk science in Colleges and Universities is nothing more that teaching everyone to be un-critical assholes that have nothing constructive to apply that science onto because it's all a mathematical gimick to fund the lifestyle of failed scientists that hide in the Education System.
Go back to school, and earn those titles and certifications you sweet-smelling swine! Let's see you make your
own comet and fly it into outer-space.
It's the sun.
Me too.
What they aren't telling you is that the space probe actually contains Dracula. NASA got tired of all the vampire stories so they are putting him down.
Please add me to the list.
Well, as long as we're cross-referencing the reports of alien abductees, with an analysis of photography premised on the non-existence of noise, with the properties of fictional devices, then I must take back my criticism as there is no possible flaw in this analysis. There's only one reasonable conclusion:
ZOMG TEHYR SHOOTIN OUR SUN WIT DERE SPACE LAZORS!
The enemies of Democracy are
This video is not even worth my time wasting it on this video.
I dunno, I watched the whole thing, and I thought it was very much worth it for all the laughs.
I loved how it was all still shots of a video feed. What, no consecutive shots showing the same phenomenon? How bizarre! I guess the Jupiter-sized comet and the wormhole just pop in and out of existence between frames.
I loved how it was definitely a wormhole because it was vaguely funnel-shaped. Can you imagine what this person would think if they looked at real space phenomenon? Oh my god, the Horsehead Nebulae is actually a real Space Horse!
But I think my favorite part was "This I'm not sure of... maybe a propulsion system?" Oh! Well, as long as you admit you aren't sure about something, then surely you're just a rational mind going where the evidence leads you and not just using your Jump to Conclusions mat that has a single square labeled "It's teh aliens!" Cus you can be totally sure that really was a wormhole.
The enemies of Democracy are
It should really go on a talent show or something, to boost its exposure.
Maybe before you take a whack at this "internet arguing" thing, you should get a firmer grasp on the language you're choosing to do it in. I'm rather certain you don't even know what most of those words mean.
It's like someone is just posting output of a Markov chain built up with all the troll and pseudo-science spewing slashdot posts they could find.
"linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
However, adding more mass to Jupiter won't significantly increase its size. It'll be increasing its density instead.
I'm very new to this whole Slashdot thing, but hey... I'm a quick study! Anyway, I'll have a shot at this Jupiter discussion, though I admittedly haven't pursued it from it's original posting. From what I've read about Juptier particularly - and I've read/studied a bit - I doubt Jupiter could get denser, not to far beneath its seathing cloud mass, Jupiter is all metalic Hydrogen at enormously high temperatures and progressively higher. should anything add to the 'size' of jupiter, although it would still fall far short of a brown dwarf, it's heat signature, radiation and gravity would necessarily grow exponentially with the potential of dragging other bodies into itself (albeit slowly). these things are of course, very uncertain in that we don't have a whole hell of a lot of 'hard data' on super Jupiters, but that's what I could see happening. It could even, based on other extrasolar super and hot Jupiters, it is even concievable that the combined gravities of the Sun and Jupiter, it could actually draw Jupter closer to the sun, dragging the rocky planets into itslef on the way or perhaps if not then capture them into its ever growing collection of 'moons'. Kind of like the concept of the planet(oid) in the movie 'Avatar'. these are all based on what little we know of a solar system destabilized by a theoretical sudden change in a planet's mass. As with much of science... it's all next best guess until it's proven conclusively. One thing is certain, If Jupiter's electomagnetic field was not already big enough, it could really make life on Earth rethink the direction of its biological evolutionary. Yet again, who knows???
In the first place, wouldn't you love to have been there when they were testing the resistance of the composite carbon solar shield... 'Here Homer, this won't hurt a bit!'. I mean if the heat don't kill ya then the radiation may really upset your day! It must be amazingly well insulated and just how much tax dollars don't we know about the cost of materials that failed the testing necessary to know it wasn't just gonna become a very expensive bottle rocket! (or is it an M-80 on steroids?)
In the second place, if they're so sure about sending a probe into the sun's HOTTEST real estate, then why don't they build a second probe, a little fancier than the first one, send it a little past this real estate and just go ahead and punch into the suckker and tell us what it learns on the way in! I mean, they did it to Jupiter so I'm thinkin' 'Hey, what the hell; let's just do it!?'. If they're talking about photons etc, it would be interesting to actually know why theory holds it that it takes possibly thirty thousand years by one documentary I've watched and yet others say it takes 5 ot 6 figures in years to get out. In any case, if it could survive hanging around the corona, then it can get to the surface. If it can get to the surface it can 'splash' down. If it can splash down and send back usable data, we may even be able to unlock other fission/fusion secrets without bombing hell onto the Earth! It may even assist in finding ways of reconverting solar winds and other sun components into usable and reusable nuclear power for space travel... Sorry I get a little overenthusiastic about getting of the Earth in a much more adventurous way then merely 'going back to the moon'. Been there, done that! Yeah sure, if they reckon we need some sort of 'gas station' between Earth and Mars. I think,though, their scope is too limited... too 'old world'. If they think hard enough...If they look hard enough, they may actually find they can go further, faster, cheaper... All they need to do is just 'think about it for a moment'. Splashing down on the Sun itself will prove that anything is poosible!
"From what I've read about Juptier particularly - and I've read/studied a bit - I doubt Jupiter could get denser, not to far beneath its seathing cloud mass, Jupiter is all metalic Hydrogen at enormously high temperatures and progressively higher."
Metallic hydrogen core in Jupiter is fairly small. It certainly can (and will) grow with more mass, until it's large enough to ignite fusion.
If we can slingshot it around the sun and back to the Earth the scientists in 1986 will be overjoyed with the results!