Dubai's Police Chief Calls BlackBerry a Spy Tool

crimeandpunishment writes "Does the battle over the Blackberry ban in the United Arab Emirates have its roots in a spy story? Dubai's police chief says concern over espionage (specifically, by the US and Israel) led to the decision to limit BlackBerry services. The UAE says it will block BlackBerry email, messaging, and web services on October 11th unless it gets access to encrypted data. Comments by Lt. Gen. Dahi Khalfan Tamim are often seen as reflecting the views of Dubai's leadership, and would appear to indicate a very hard line in talks with Research in Motion."

Comments

Shoes a spy tool

[Dyinobal]

Shoes are also a well known spy tool. 99.999% of all spys use them.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[odies]

Sorry, but US demands EU and a lot of other countries to give them access to their peoples banking, financial and all kind of other data, and don't get me even started on the NSA listening devices and backdoors on major ISP's backbones. Why is it so weird when other countries in turn demand the same kind of access? If US wants to promote privacy of citizens, at least start doing it yourself first.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

What does that have to do with Spy Shoes? Can somebody mod that off topic?

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[erroneus]

It's not "weird" but it certainly calls attention to an interesting duality of standards. The people of the U.S. aren't quite as concerned when its own government does the things it does, but we tend to go ape shit when other governments do the same or even a lesser version of the same. We call it wrong and anti-freedom and all that while at the same time, we justify to ourselves that it is somehow okay for our own government to do this. I'm sure I will never see the day when people finally wake up to reality, but I hope they do.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[pitchpipe]

Why is it so weird when other countries in turn demand the same kind of access? If US wants to promote privacy of citizens, at least start doing it yourself first.

Just because our country does it, doesn't mean that we don't oppose it. We oppose violation of privacy in all its forms, including our own government's.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[JustOK]

sorry, my shoe is ringing.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[icebike]

So you are saying that my private encryption key on my blackberry has been turned over to the US government?

You do know how it works do you not?
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglance/security/features.jsp

Its my security key. Not Rims.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

We oppose violation of privacy in all its forms, including our own government's.

yeah, but we allow it nonetheless, right?

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[wmac]

What is the relation of shoes to this topic at all? Discussion was not about shoes and the TS was trying to make fun of the main topic.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

No, we just remember Waco and Ruby Ridge, and most of us decide we don't wanna end up like that. The rest, well, end up like that.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[HungryHobo]

From the link you posted, did you even read that?
Or do you not use the system you posted?

"The BlackBerry Enterprise Solution offers two transport encryption options, Advanced Encryption Standard (AES) and Triple Data Encryption Standard (Triple DES)*, for all data transmitted between BlackBerry® Enterprise Server and BlackBerry smartphones.

Private encryption keys are generated in a secure, two-way authenticated environment and are assigned to each BlackBerry smartphone user. Each secret key is stored only in the user's secure enterprise account (i.e., Microsoft® Exchange, IBM® Lotus® Domino® or Novell® GroupWise®) and on their BlackBerry smartphone and can be regenerated wirelessly by the user.

Data sent to the BlackBerry smartphone is encrypted by BlackBerry Enterprise Server using the private key retrieved from the user's mailbox. The encrypted information travels securely across the network to the smartphone where it is decrypted with the key stored there."

Storing your private key in 2 places is traditionally a bad idea. Especially when one of those places is in the hands of a company which can be compelled to hand it over without telling you.

If the goal were to simply be able to send data securely between your secure enterprise account and your blackberry then your secure enterprise account should only have your public key with which to encrypt data it sends to you and your private key should remain in your hands and your hands alone.
Idealy the secure enterprise account shouldn't be able to decrypt your data at all.

Now this could be for the sake of efficiency since public key crypto takes more cpu cycles but simply put if the US government asked for your private key, lets say they sent an NSL, RIM would be able to give it to them.
That is not a secure system.
A secure system would be one where only you have your private key and where blackberry merely validates certificates.
In which case anyone who wanted to read your communications would have to perform an explicit man in the middle attack after strong-arming blackberry into signing a cert for them.

So to make it genuinely secure you'd have to use public key crypto and let people choose their own certificate service in which case it would be as secure as the cert service and devices themselves.

So you are saying that my private encryption key on my blackberry has been turned over to the US government?

Simply put, if they asked for it then yes, there's nothing stopping that.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Jurily]

Now this could be for the sake of efficiency since public key crypto takes more cpu cycles but simply put if the US government asked for your private key, lets say they sent an NSL, RIM would be able to give it to them.
That is not a secure system.

Note how this is an Enterprise(tm) system. There is no expectation of privacy, only contracts and CYA.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

(Re)read his post. He's saying the exact opposite.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[gtall]

Reminds me of a joke. Three Business School Product were sitting down at lunch and all were trying to show how technologically advanced their companies were. One guy starts tapping his fingers and then puts his thumb near his ear and his pinkie by his mouth and starts talking. Then he says goodbye and explains to his amazed buddies that his company had installed phones in their hands and their fingers do the dialing. One of the others, not to be outdone, starts touching various teeth with his tongue, looking very odd. Then he starts talking, says goodbye, and explains his company has installed phones in their teeth. The third fellow, feeling a bit behind the times, lets out a rip-roaring fart that wakes the dead. He quickly takes his leave to go the bathroom because a fax has just come in.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

Here you make certain assumptions:

1. AES and/or 3DES is secure and has not been broken by spook agencies.
2. The implementation in BlackBerry phones does not have flaws, in particular, that it does not leak all or part of the key.
3. The key-exchange used is secure and has no implementation flaws.
4. There is no OTA triggered feature that causes the phone to reply with all or parts of the key.

You can probably figure out more assumptions.

You are correct that it's your security key. However, it is generated on RIM's hardware with RIM's software implementation.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[jc42]

What is the relation of shoes to this topic at all? Discussion was not about shoes and the TS was trying to make fun of the main topic.

Exactly. And public ridicule is often a very appropriate way to deal with such "Ban it all" approaches.

A local example: Here in Massachusetts, the courthouses have installed metal detectors in the doorways over the past few years. There were news reports explaining that a huge number of weapons (over 17,000 in one report) had been confiscated from people entering the courthouses in the previous year. Some local reporters got a bit curious about this and interviewed some of the managers, who were audibly reluctant to answer questions about just what kinds of weapons people had tried to bring into the courthouses. After a while, the interviewers finally got an admission of what these weapons were: "pocket knives, of the Swiss Army type".

That's right, they were classifying pocket knives as "weapons". And when pressed to admit this, they described such knives with phrasing intended to make them sound like military weapons.

It's quite common for security folks to use this sort of PR tactic to make it sound like they're detecting huge rates of attacks from people intent on doing harm. Similarly, when we've got the details of the ongoing huge numbers of computer "hacker attacks", it has sometimes turned out that they're counting incoming pings as "attacks", probes in the same class as port scans.

When we hear or read vague language like "spy tool" to describe threats, we should always suspect that they're including normal, everyday uses of tools in this catchall classification. We should try to learn more details of what they're really talking about, and how they're planning to deal with it. Ridiculing them by pointing out that shoes are also "spy tools" is quite appropriate, to highlight the misleading nature of that phrase. Similarly, pings are "hacker tools" and pocket knives are "Army type weapons". This sort of misuse of language is a standard propaganda tool that should be exposed.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

More incessant anti US bashing/trolling form sopssa, aka odies, aka SquarePixel.

Nice trolling boyo! Your batphone rang again?

Fucking parasite.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

Well fuck them all buddy! But Dubai needs special treatment. Lotta girls get kidnapped around the world and sold in Dubai.
Embargo all tech to Dubai. Hell Embargo Dubai. Scorch their earth and give them to China to reduce the national debt. Hmmm,
makes you think about what to do with the Mideast if they don't start lynching some Muslim extremists en mass. China could hold on to it too.
Particularly Afghanistan. Hell they could come out owing us money with all the minerals and oil. Lets just conquer the towelheads and sell them to China. That'll fix several thousand years of problems for the world.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[wkk2]

Assuming safe key distribution, security comes down to whether or not the phone (or server) has an API that exposes the shared secret. I'm guessing that there will be (or is) a command to dump the key.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm... I'm not sure I agree with you. But recall you aren't given the option to import your own certificate. RIM controls that. Weakspot nmber 1.
Also see that your private key is stored on the server automagically. Don't think this isn't accessible by the BES admin. And if you really want to get all the conspiracy theorists hot and bothered... remember that for foreign sales RIM is under no obligation to reveal to you if its encryption is purposefully altered to permit, say... a back door master key.
But that's needlessly messy, since you have the cert control, and the private keys of all your users.

If I were a dictator or a repressing government, I'd do everything in my power to reject this techonolgy, but I doubt I could resist it. It is for this fact alone that if the CIA is NOT attempting to infiltrate via these methods, they are missing a great opportunity.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[fbarajas]

Yeah, and Maxwell Smart was a spy, and used a shoe-phone :-)

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[shentino]

I think it was making a point that correlation!=causation.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

Except the fact the US government is claimed to be doing it for preserving freedom and liberty where as other governments are doing it for oppressing their citizens.

Not all but a lot of people (including good ol Americans) are hypocrites. On one end they scream freedom and on the other a little mosque near ground zero......

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[ScrewMaster]

Sorry, but US demands EU and a lot of other countries to give them access to their peoples banking, financial and all kind of other data, and don't get me even started on the NSA listening devices and backdoors on major ISP's backbones. Why is it so weird when other countries in turn demand the same kind of access? If US wants to promote privacy of citizens, at least start doing it yourself first.

Uh, Mr. Fruitbasket, you do realize that Research in Motion is a Canadian company, don't you? Plus which, in your haste to make an anti-American comment early in the thread and thus score some cheap mod points, you didn't even notice that the GP was referring to shoes.

Besides, encryption is legal in the United States. If I want to encrypt my emails, or encrypt my voice communications, it's legal for me to do so. What was your complaint again? Oh, I'm supposed to give a damn about people in other countries? Why is that our problem? Besides, if we try to make that our problem, you'll immediately come back telling us that we shouldn't be interfering with the internal affairs of another nation.

Make up your goddamn mind.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[ScrewMaster]

sorry, my shoe is ringing.

Ohhhh, Max.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[geniusj]

BlackBerry® Enterprise Servers are not run by BlackBerry. Although they do write the software, obviously. So, assuming all is well with the software, the two parties capable of decrypting your email are you and the party running the BES (which isn't BlackBerry.)

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

If you go to Canada with a US passport Canada has access to the US crime databases and will be more than glad to turn you away if you have a criminal record

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Sulphur]

Then another one sold him call waiting.

--

I can keep a secret. All my friends can keep one too.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Compaqt]

Well, but the point is that the key isn't stored outside the company.

And, in this case, it's not the user's privacy that's in question, but the company's.

As long as no one is able to break intra-company communications, the goal is achieved.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

Storing your private key in 2 places is traditionally a bad idea. Especially when one of those places is in the hands of a company which can be compelled to hand it over without telling you.

But the company can already do that. They own & run the email server - they already have full access to the email server. Keeping the encryption key doesn't give them any additional access that they didn't already have.

The blackberry platform is only a secure conduit between the handheld and the email server. The email server admin already has full access to the email server (and your email). The access level of the email server admin isn't changed by the blackberry platform.

If the goal were to simply be able to send data securely between your secure enterprise account and your blackberry then your secure enterprise account should only have your public key with which to encrypt data it sends to you and your private key should remain in your hands and your hands alone.

You really don't understand public key encryption. The entire content is not actually encrypted with RSA (or DSA). The RSA public/private key pair is used to encrypt a session key for a conventional cipher (AES in this case). The actual content is encrypted by a conventional non-public key cipher.

Idealy the secure enterprise account shouldn't be able to decrypt your data at all.

No. At some point your messages have to leave the encrypted realm and enter the email server.

Now this could be for the sake of efficiency since public key crypto takes more cpu cycles but simply put if the US government asked for your private key, lets say they sent an NSL, RIM would be able to give it to them.
That is not a secure system.
A secure system would be one where only you have your private key and where blackberry merely validates certificates.

You're an ignorant moron. A secure system does not depend on RIM to validate certificates. It's must better not to have to trust anyone.

With a blackberry enterprise server, RIM does not have encryption keys to hand over to the US government (or any other). The keys are on the blackberry enterprise server and on the handheld.

Sending a NSL to RIM to hand over my encryption key is as useful as sending a NSL ordering you to hand over my encryption key. As much as you hate me for pointing out that you really don't understand encryption, YOU DON'T HAVE MY ENCRYPTION KEY TO HAND OVER TO THE GOVERNMENT. RIM DOESN'T HAVE THE ENCRYPTION KEY EITHER.

That is the part that the governments of India, UAE, Saudi Arabia and others are having trouble understanding.

In which case anyone who wanted to read your communications would have to perform an explicit man in the middle attack after strong-arming blackberry into signing a cert for them.

There have been many, many successful attacks based on spoofing certificate authorities or errors in validating certificates. That is why RIM doesn't do it.

Your proposal gives RIM the ability to access the encrypted messages. Instead, RIM designed a better system where RIM is NOT in the encryption loop. The key exchange between a blackberry enterprise server and handheld can be done by direct USB cable connection - good look spoofing that.

So to make it genuinely secure you'd have to use public key crypto and let people choose their own certificate service in which case it would be as secure as the cert service and devices themselves.

And there is the flaw in your reasoning. There have been many, many successful attacks based on spoofing certificate authorities or errors in validating certificates.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[WhitetailKitten]

Mod this AC up, because he's right... and, well, he's right. And GP doesn't understand RIM's security implementation.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[falconwolf]

Sorry, but US demands EU and a lot of other countries to give them access to their peoples banking, financial and all kind of other data, and don't get me even started on the NSA listening devices and backdoors on major ISP's backbones. Why is it so weird when other countries in turn demand the same kind of access? If US wants to promote privacy of citizens, at least start doing it yourself first.

I'm glad to say you're wrong. Many Americans oppose what their government does. In quite a few of my own posts I state how I oppose what government does.

Falcon

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[WhitetailKitten]

I don't know how to break it to you, AC, but you're clearly an idiot. Never get elected for public office anywhere.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[gotpaint32]

Mod UP. Parent is a damn fool who obviously has no idea how BES works. This is not BIS we are talking about.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Herr Brush]

I dont think thats what the diagram is showing. It has the private key stored on the phone and on the Blackberry Enterprise Server sitting behind the company's firewall, not RIMs. Importantly, those servers can be located in jurisdictions where there are legal protections from the government's demands for data. Obviously if the US govt produces a warrant to get the key from your US based IT dept they are going to be successful but not so with Saudi or India govts. Also the duplicate key is a necessary evil as stuff does occasionally go wrong with handsets...

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, since the "secure enterprise account" stores all of your data (it's not an encrypted backup, it's a synchronization tool), having the encryption key wouldn't change anything...you can just access all of the data (unencrypted) on the server.

If you're really looking for security, then you can always install the S/MIME or PGP packages that are available for Blackberry, instead of just relying on the transport encryption.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[exomondo]

Sorry, but US demands EU and a lot of other countries to give them access to their peoples banking, financial and all kind of other data, and don't get me even started on the NSA listening devices and backdoors on major ISP's backbones. Why is it so weird when other countries in turn demand the same kind of access? If US wants to promote privacy of citizens, at least start doing it yourself first.

wtf has this got to do with the US?

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

We know its you Maxwell!

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[sharkey]

*Ffffffffaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrttttttttttttttt!!!

Excuse me, got a fax coming through.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

Idealy the secure enterprise account shouldn't be able to decrypt your data at all.

Except your Exchange/Domino/GroupWise/other server already has the plaintext, why does it matter if it could also decrypt the encrypted BlackBerry version?

RIM would be able to give it to them

Why? They don't own your secure enterprise server, nor your BlackBerry smartphone.

So to make it genuinely secure you'd have to use public key crypto and let people choose their own certificate service in which case it would be as secure as the cert service and devices themselves.

I can't really see how that's any better than generating your own private key - then it's as secure as the server and devices themselves.

Simply put, if they asked for it then yes, there's nothing stopping [private key being turned over to US gov].

This presumably implies that you distrust the secure enterprise server inside your firewall, or the BlackBerry smartphone. I'm not really sure how that could be made any more trustworthy - you could have different companies manufacture the servers and the handsets, but then you'd have terrible integration and you'd actually have to trust two companies instead of one. You could put together an open-source solution, I suppose, or you could get dozens of respected organisations to perform security audits on your closed-source one.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[star99]

Many govts want access post black berry server and that is why they are pressing for servers in there own country [ after blackberry server every thing is plain ] one can access that plain stuff ........

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[LordLimecat]

Im not entirely clear here, can you explain how RIM will provide the NSA with an encryption key that they never saw? Is RIM somehow bruteforcing all the (encrypted) encryption keys? You do realize that to activate a blackberry (and thus get the encryption key onto it) you need to either
A) use a USB connection to get the keys transferred over or
B) do a wireless activation, which requires a pre-shared key to be input on both the handheld and the server

EVEN assuming that a wireless activation were performed, how exactly do you propose that RIM get a key which passed through their network 5 months ago, itself encrypted with a private key that they are not privy to?

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[erroneus]

Heh... didn't you know? All BES traffic travels over the internet THROUGH RIM's servers, then out to mobile carriers and then to your phone. This is why when RIM's network goes out, the whole world gets upset.

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[JustOK]

wanna see my streaming movies?

Re:Shoes a spy tool

[hesaigo999ca]

what about ninja belt buckles, if they are not considered spy material, I want one!

PGP

[VincenzoRomano]

Is a much better spy tool. And you cannot block all email to and from all servers!

Re:PGP

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, spy tool as in other countries are intercepting mail going through RIM's servers numnuts. ... we'd be crazy NOT to do that.

Re:PGP

[antifoidulus]

PGP does have one weakness that an encrypted blackberry server wouldn't have though. Namely that it's still possible to determine who a person is sending mail to. Now good spys would set up an elaborate relay system, but we have seen how clumsy "superspys" can be with technology on occasion....

Re:PGP

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not? I mean, they certainly could if they wanted to. They probably wouldn't have to anyhow. With PGP isn't only the body of the message encrypted? The header would have to be in plain text in order for the message to be routed across servers that do not use PGP.

Re:PGP

[Cwix]

You'd think spies would make use of some sort of onion routing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_routing

Re:PGP

[TyFoN]

And with APG and k9mail on Android this is simple to use on a mobile phone. I bet the UAE (and the USA) government would have a fit if everyone sent emails with 4096 bit encryption.

Re:PGP

[antifoidulus]

Onion routing still doesn't prevent the authorities from eavesdropping communications between the isp and the spy, it would just make spying on anything after that incredibly difficult. Ultimately if you really want protection just buy a satellite phone that allows for end to end encryption, it's more expensive but worth every scheckel.

Re:PGP

[mr_mischief]

That's what TLS is for.

Re:PGP

[AK Marc]

Throw-away Gmail accounts and encryption would be cheaper, simpler, and just as "safe" assuming no one person is captured and new emails are used for every action. And a country that really wanted to could block or track satphones (who they talk to, if not obfuscated, but not what they say, if encrypted). And it really sucks that they don't work indoors. Skype on a data network would be easier, or just use a SIP client, or an encrypted SIP client or any of a variety of ways that are just as safe (and much easier) than satphones. Well, cheaper and easier once set up, but yes, a satphone is easy to plug and play.

Re:PGP

[Tacvek]

How would onion routing not prevent that? The messages to the onion router are encrypted, so the ISP can see that the user is using encrypted comms, but has no idea who is receiving the encrypted message.

Onion routing is based on an incomplete earlier anonymous remailing system created by a subset of the TOR team (the type II system: Mixminion). The routing was similar technically, except that a message would normally have ten relays rather than 3. Besides the messages being encrypted, the links between nodes were also encrypted with TLS. This does not add any security that I know of, but was such an easy thing to add, and might help mitigate any weaknesses in the core system.

Under mixminion, a relay only knew the encrypted contents of the message, the previous relay, the next relay, and if it was the last relay in the chain. It had no idea if it was the first or next-to-last relay. Only the very first node (other than he sender) has any idea who the sender is, but that node does not even know that the sender is really the sender.

A complicated system of single use reply blocks would permit having a pseudonym server, which collects reply emails sent to a pseudonym e-mail address, and stores them for later retrieval by sending single use reply blocks, which allows the pseudonym server to encrypt the reply and put it in the system, all without knowing anything more than the first relay to use.

Politically prompted?

[allaunjsilverfox2]

You have to wonder if this guy isn't looking for some kind of promotion. The easiest way to go from nobody to somebody is to get noticed.

Re:Politically prompted?

[ToasterMonkey]

So if RIM were a Chinese company, or better - Iranian, or say head quartered in Dubai, would you have any problems with BlackBerries being used by the majority of our government officials & heads of industry? These people have more than enough reason to be wary of our intelligence services.
Without knowing any specifics, you should at least have a _little_ faith in their (our intel) capabilities. It's just a little silly to think the rest of the world is just a bunch of tinfoil hat types when it's no secret that we, and everybody else do pay people to collect information on, stuff. AKA spy.

Re:Politically prompted?

[allaunjsilverfox2]

Which seems more likely, A guy "suddenly" having a opinion on a device thats understood worldwide. Or that he just wants someone above him to notice him? And I have no problem with being snooped on. Privacy is a illusion, one that I gladly hide behind. But I am not deluded into thinking that it's more then a paper tiger. If governments TRULY wanted access, they would. It doesn't take much to torture a person.

Re:Politically prompted?

[Peeteriz]

RIM has made it known that they are giving the encryption keys to BlackBerry communications to various governments - ergo, it makes some sense for Saudi Arabia to say that Saudi businessmen are not allowed to use them despite the convenience, due to risk of business espionage by foreign governments.

Re:Politically prompted?

[Anonymous Coward]

you need privacy _now_ for you and your ideas to protect yourself from dictatorship _later_

for those who believe dictatorships are a thing of the past/third world country, look no further than 70 years ago to find one egregious example of why you need to keep your color for yourself.

Re:Politically prompted?

[Runaway1956]

Seventy years? You think you have to go that far back to find a dictatorship? Read current events, and you can find one totalitarian state in existence right now in Korea. At least 3 repressive theocracies, in existence, right now. We can list some de facto dictatorships in the last 40 years, no matter the names they used for their nations and/or governments. Pol Pot and Idi Amin come readily to mind, as does Saddam Hussein. Maybe people like yourself don't recognize a dictatorship unless and until they kill off a million or more people. Even so - Pol Pot's government should have caught your notice!

Re:Politically prompted?

[HungryHobo]

http://www.planetrulers.com/current-dictators/

authoritarian regimes/dictatorships

Algeria - Abdelaziz Bouteflika, President of Algeria
Angola - Mr. Jose Eduardo dos Santos, President of Angola
Azerbaijan - Ilham Aliyev, President of Azerbaijan
Belarus - Aleksandr Lukashenko, President of Belarus
Bhutan - Jigme Khesar Namgyal Wangchuck, King of Bhutan
Brunei - Sultan Haji Hassanal Bolkiah Mu'izzaddin Waddaulah
Cambodia - His Majesty King Norodom Sihamoni, King of Cambodia
Cameroon - Paul Biya, President of Cameroon
Chad - Idriss Deby, President of Chad
China - Hu Jintao, President of China
Congo, Dem. Rep. of - Isidore Mvouba, Prime Minister of Congo
Côte d'Ivoire - Laurent Gbagbo, President of Cote d'Ivoire
Cuba - Raul Castro, President of Cuba
Egypt - Hosny Mubarak, President of Egypt
Equatorial Guinea - OBIANG NGUEMA MBASOGO, President
Eritrea - Isaias Afwerki, President of Eritrea
Guinea - Lansana Conte, President of Guinea
Iran - Mahmoud Ahmadi Nejad, President of Iran
Iraq - Jalal Talabani, President of Iraq
Kazakhstan - Nursultan Nazarbaev, President of Kazakhstan
Laos - Lieutenant General Choummaly Sayasone, President
Libya - Muammar Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi, Leader of Libya
Myanmar (Burma) - Soe Win, Prime Minister of Myanmar (Burma)
North Korea - Kim Jong-il, President of North Korea
Oman - Qaboos bin Said Al-Said, Prime Minister of Oman
Pakistan - Pervez Musharraf, President of Pakistan
Qatar - Sheikh Hamad Bin Jassim Bin Jabr Al-Thani
Russia - Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev, President of Russia
Rwanda - Paul Kagame, President of Rwanda
Saudi Arabia - King Fahd bin Abdul Aziz, King of Saudi Arabia
Somalia - Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed, President of Somalia
Sudan - Omar H.A. Al-Bashier, President of Sudan
Swaziland - Mswati III, King of Swaziland
Syria - Bashar al-Assad, President of Syria
Tajikistan - Emomalii Rahmon, President of Tadjikistan
Thailand - Surayut Chulanon, Royal Prime Minister of Thailand
Togo - Faure Essozimna Gnassingbe, President of Togo
Tunisia - Zine el Abidine Ben Ali, President of Tunisia
Turkmenistan - Gurbanguly BERDIMUHAMEDOW, President of Turkmenistan
United Arab Emirates - Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan
Uzbekistan - Islam Abdughanievich Karimov, President of Uzbekistan
Vietnam - Nong Duc Manh, President of Vietnam
Zimbabwe - Robert (Gabriel) Mugabe, President of Zimbabwe

Re:Politically prompted?

[skunkiller3]

So if RIM were a Chinese company, or better - Iranian, or say head quartered in Dubai, would you have any problems with BlackBerries being used by the majority of our government officials & heads of industry?

But...isn't RIM Canadian? (Citation) I mean, they might see it as the same thing since the US has good relations with Canada, but it seems like that should count for something. In your example, it would be like the US being concerned that BlackBerries made in Dubai were being used by Iran to spy on the US. Not that a lot of Americans wouldn't have issues with that, but it doesn't make as much sense when there's multiple countries involved.

Re:Politically prompted?

[Anonymous Coward]

Batman could take 'em

Re:Politically prompted?

[Anonymous Coward]

who the fuck modded this informative?

Iran - Mahmoud Ahmadi Nejad, President of Iran

No, the guy you're looking for is Ali Khamenei. As a hint to idiots who think they're clever by copypasting together a list of people titled President in countries they don't like, this guy's title is Supreme Leader. Why don't you check out the explicit despotism in the Iranian constitution and get back to us when you understand their politics, hm?

Re:Politically prompted?

[Anonymous Coward]

"So if RIM were a Chinese company, or better - Iranian, or say head quartered in Dubai, "

The last 2 are the same. Dubai for years has taken in huge investments from Iran. As _Monocle_ (the magazine) pointed out in 2009, it may say Dubai investments, but the money is funneled in from Iran. It's not that hard to understand, as Dubai takes investments from anywhere in the middle east, they want to have an economic center to compete with the west in the manner of their ways, and you can bet that all that Iranian oil money is going somewhere.

To your point, people use RIM because at some practical and understood point, while they may dislike the US or Canada, they are trustworthy of the tools produced by those countries, because of the competition fostered in the marketplace. If RIM had a backdoor, people in their native countries would scream bloody murder. In Iran or China, they could put a backdoor in, and most people wouldn't be allowed to scream, they would be bloody, and might be murdered if they let on. See China's buying of Lenovo and the scare that put on Lenovo's being bought in the US and by western governments.

What the Dubai situation is is a return to sheer nationalism, where products produced by any nation invokes immediate suspicion. I honestly HOPE AND WANT Dubai to blackmail RIM, because it shows the entire world what a fiasco Dubai is, and is ultimately a reflection of how the Middle East runs their house. They are nothing but a front and it's time people woke up.

"Without knowing any specifics, you should at least have a _little_ faith in their (our intel) capabilities."

Dude, I'm a Republican, and...where the hell have you been? 9/11? Iraq? (I think we should have gone into Iraq anyways, but the "tubes" fiasco is embarrassing.) Anyways, I'm assuming you're from the States, given how you're writing, but I could be wrong.

Re:Politically prompted?

[boxwood]

uh that list is wrong. If Thailand and Cambodia are dictatorships ruled by their respective monarchs, then the UK is a dictatorship as well.

Re:Politically prompted?

[Compaqt]

How wonderful is World Wide Web! Somebody actually went to the bother of creating a comprehensive list of dictators?

Anyway, why are Russia and Iraq on the list? Sure, there was a coup attempt a long time ago, but thinks are OK now, right?

And Iraq. They have elections now, and the US favorite didn't get in.

The funny thing is Afghanistan isn't mentioned, where there were widespread election irregularities.

Re:Politically prompted?

[falconwolf]

RIM has made it known that they are giving the encryption keys to BlackBerry communications to various governments

Citation needed.

I know I would not trust or use a form of communications for what I want to keep private if government, any government, was able to read messages. People have already complained they don't want Indian government employees giving Indian businesses that compeat access to their communications. And where government has that access someone can buy access as well.

Falcon

Re:Politically prompted?

[HungryHobo]

They just listed the leaders/countries which were rates as not free by Freedom House.

A country can be democratic and still be authoritarian or oppressive.

Re:Politically prompted?

[NoseyNick]

[citation needed]

Re:Politically prompted?

[Anonymous Coward]

[citation needed]

Here you go: "U.S. authorities able to tap BlackBerry messaging."

nice marketing

[fadethepolice]

all the news lately makes me want to buy a blackberry.

Nope.

[Anonymous Coward]

Spy's sappin' mah civilian surveillance.

We're worried you're spys because

[meerling]

we can't read your encrypted messages and are too stupid or too lazy to crack them ourselves, so won't you please give us the golden master keys to the kingdom?

Re:We're worried you're spys because

[Nursie]

You mean just like the US and UK governments do through legal or extra-legal means? Installing data taps in ISP and telephone providers operations centres? Demanding encryption keys from companies and private citizens alike?

Let's not pretend that these are tinpot developing nations - these guys are following the example set by #1!

a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[circletimessquare]

in countries that pay a premium on authoritarianism?

the only thing i wonder is why is this story happening in 2010 and not earlier?

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[Anonymous Coward]

Because Israeli spies allegedly killed Mahmoud al Mabhouh in Dubai in 2010 and suspicion is on Blackberries as the communication method. In Dubai you can buy a Blackberry at a supermarket - all you need to do is provide a photocopy of an ID card to the sales agent (who is not a Dubai citizen and probably can't even speak Arabic) - huge room for fraud. And since Dubai can no longer know who owns what blackberries (or even who bought it) they are trying to crack it open.
Before that Dubai wanted to show itself as open and safe for business and blackberry-friendly. Now someone abused that so they are cracking down.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[khallow]

I think it's fairly evident that God opposes IP. After all, his communications and other intellectual property has always been public domain.

Also, what's your position on tyranny? Good/bad?

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you stand before God on the intellectual property issue? Maybe, you can. I think it's theft.

Was Jesus stealing when he made copies of the loaves and fishes? If your answer is "no" because there was at the time no law against it, consider that God's command not to steal is unchangeable.

If the commandment "Thou shalt not steal" condemns copying, then how does Jesus remain sinless? If not, then any biblical obligation to follow it is based on the requirement of obedience to authority and not a God given statute. While you may think that theologically that gives those laws the same force, it still definitively destroys the equating of copyright infringement with theft from a biblical perspective. Even if you still agree with the current copyright laws you have some revision to do on how you relate those laws to religion. Furthermore, anything that is only wrong because authority says so is subject to that authority (or a higher one) repealing the law. Therefore, from a Christian perspective, it is completely justifiable to advocate any change to copyright laws you see fit.

I'd recommend giving some consideration to whether calling copying theft is in fact levelling an accusation at Jesus and therefore blasphemy.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[roman_mir]

I see copyrights and patents as impediment to economy, they all must be abolished and I am a developer.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[lewko]

Spoken like a true Arab Minister for Propaganda.

Step 1: Blame Israelis.

Step 2: Clamp down on your own citizens.

Step 3: Repeat.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[the_womble]

God does not want people to breach state mandated monopolies? What next - God supported Stalin?

Artists made a living for millennia before copyright law.

Many professional programmers choose to make limited use of copyright protection (open source licences) or even waive them altogether (stuff like SQLite that is public domain).

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[the_womble]

As the GP pointed out, Israeli intelligence actually murdered people in Dubai. Given that, they do have a reason to be a bit wary of the risks posed.

OF course it is a nasty feudal dictatorship, with a modern gloss to hide its underlying backwardness, but it still has genuine enimies.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[mr_mischief]

You forget that Jesus was the son of God (or God himself, or a part of God himself, or some combination depending on who you ask) and that the IP on plants and animals belong to God. ;-)

Besides, people gave Jesus the loaves and fishes. He made copies of his own loaves and fishes, not copies of someone else's.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[Anonymous Coward]

Besides, people gave Jesus the loaves and fishes. He made copies of his own loaves and fishes, not copies of someone else's.

That has no bearing on the situation with copyright. If I buy or am given a DVD, copyright law prohibits me from copying and distribution. Owning the copy from which you make copies does not in the slightest decrease your liability for distributing copyrighted works. I maintain my position that viewing copyright violation as theft is incompatible with viewing Jesus as sinless.

It might seem tongue in cheek and it's true I don't want Christianity imposed by legislation but I still don't see how a Christian can take the view that copyright infringement is theft. If copying were theft, it would surely have been mentioned somewhere, failing that you would at least expect the one example of sinlessness to refrain from it.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[blackraven14250]

As the GP pointed out, Israeli intelligence actually murdered people in Dubai.

I'll point out that despite there being a good indication that this is the case, there's not enough proof to convict if this were a murder case in the US.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[Skapare]

Even if Israel did do murders in UAE, which I do not disbelieve, that just makes it easier (at step 2) to carry out their goals (at step 3). Israel isn't the cause; it just makes it easier.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[jedidiah]

> Even if Israel did do murders in UAE, which I do not disbelieve,
> that just makes it easier (at step 2) to carry out their goals
> (at step 3). Israel isn't the cause; it just makes it easier.

You really have to wonder if it's worth throwing away the baby with the bath water here. Dubai seems to be all about the money.

What's a few Israeli's running amok when there's money to be made?

You could easily apply the same stupid logic to ANY country and
completely undermine whatever liberty and business climate exists.
While "liberty and the rights of man" are nice and all, ultimately
any sane and evenhanded and open and free framework is going to be
a boon for business and investment.

Liberty is just good for business.

People tend to invest and work for a better future when they can
be sure that all of the fruits of their labor can't be arbitrarily
stolen from them at a moments notice.

I would have thought that Dubai would put up with quite a bit (when
compared to other Arab countries) to encourage a healthy business environment.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[flyneye]

*cue "Life of Brian " soundtrack*

         

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, so what? That's not unique. I'm sure people murder other people in Dubai all the time. That's why they have a police force. I'm sure that much more rarely those people are murdered by government agents, whether indigenous or foreign. That's why they no doubt have some kind of spy agency of their own, monitoring these sorts of things. Name a country in the world that doesn't have to worry about such risks (i.e. the fact it was "Israeli intelligence" is irrelevant).

What I can't figure out is how having access to Blackberry encryption codes will change this at all. If people know the government has access, then obviously they won't use that means of communication. They'll find some other way -- especially foreign intelligence agencies. Or will Mossad will keep on using their Blackberry devices, oblivious to the fact that they are being monitored by the Dubai government? Ha.. I don't see how having access to encrypted data streams will reduce risk *at*all*, other than perhaps making it easier to find the stupid criminals. It's obvious the stated reasons for needing this access (foreign espionage) aren't the real reasons.

More likely, it means the government will be able to arrest ordinary people when they say bad things about the stupid monarchs that rule the country and think that the solution to people saying bad things about them is to monitor every means of communication. That way a few people can be hauled off to jail, and the rest of the people will be too scared to speak what they are actually thinking. The rationale that restraining the people's means of expression will somehow solve the problem is ridiculous. It will only make people feel more oppressed. Unless they're going to ramp it up to full-blown '1984'-style surveillance they won't accomplish a thing, except convince people that doing business in Dubai isn't a good idea.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[flyneye]

Actually it does have bearing. If it is a God given right inherent to man then it could be upheld in Human Rights Tribunals. Hey God gave us Marijuana http://bible.cc/genesis/1-29.htm and "Congress shall make no laws regarding an establishment of religion. Like food it is sacramental. It's high time some dumbasses quit slamming God out of hand and take a look for themselves theres more plusses than negatives to this whole God business.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[rtfa-troll]

Ah yes; because you have special privileged prior access to the full Dubai file? I mean, I admit that I don't have enough evidence to prove it's Israel. I'll even believe you don't have enough evidence. I'm just not sure that that's really relevant to the question of whether Dubai has enough evidence..

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[belmolis]

Actually, no evidence whatever that Israel was behind the assassination has been made public nor is there any reason to believe that Dubai has such evidence. There's been a lot of hot air, but no evidence. Israel certainly had motive, but so did any number of Arab factions, such as Al-Fatah. Really the only thing that points at Israel is that Israeli intelligence is so much more competent than Arab terrorist organizations and intelligence services. That hardly constitutes proof. And of course Dubai wouldn't have to worry about such assassinations if it didn't extend a warm welcome to known war criminals. (As a senior official of an organization that openly engages in daily attacks on civilian targets, there is no question whatever that the "murder victim" was guilty of war crimes.)

In any case, this was pretty much a one-shot deal. There's no reason for either Israel or US intelligence to spy on Dubai, which is not a military threat to either, and it is only on rare occasions that someone they care enough to assassinate on hostile territory would be present. Even if Israel was responsible for the elimination of Al-Mabhouh, this was not an attack on Dubai. Dubai was simply where they could get at him. It isn't really plausible that Dubai wants access for counter-intelligence purposes. What is much more likely is that they are concerned with internal dissent.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[exomondo]

and suspicion is on Blackberries as the communication method.

I guess that's that then, better ban them. douchebag

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[ducomputergeek]

Ten years ago there was the mythos that the internet was this kind of wild-wild-west. Back then, governments were looking at custom built gear for DPI, firewalls, etc. and most didn't have the expertise, money, or were willing to wait. In 2008 the world watched as Iran effectively controlled all communications within and in/out of their country. Was it 100% effective, no, but effective enough. That was the tipping point that proved that the idea/hopes/dreams of free and open communication without barriers was over. The ball is back in the governments court.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[mr_mischief]

These weren't copies of some man's creative work of fishes. They were fish. They came from the natural world. It's like saying that farmers can't raise food from seed.

Once again, if they take Jesus to be their God and God created the plants and animals in the first place, it wouldn't exactly be copyright infringement to copy his own intellectual creation. Convenient how you just responded to the part of the post in which that point wasn't made already.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, they did. And how is this related to the blackberry?
Oh yes, it is true. All the evil activities started with the blackberry...

Get real a small group of spies can use anything to communicate, this is about control of population. Local population more concretely they do not give a shit about us expats. It all started with a local guy using BBM to organize a protest against petrol price increases, the guy was not very smart and is now arrested. Of course this i learnt from The Economist I think, nothing was published here.
and yes I am using or to post it.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like saying that farmers can't raise food from seed.

Haven't you heard of Monsanto?

Once again, if they take Jesus to be their God and God created the plants and animals in the first place, it wouldn't exactly be copyright infringement to copy his own intellectual creation. Convenient how you just responded to the part of the post in which that point wasn't made already.

Convenient how you just responded about the fish and not the bread, which doesn't grow naturally and is the work of the baker. I actually responded to the last sentence of your post, too, so if your point wasn't made by then it wasn't made at all in that post. There is no restriction on multiplication of living things in the bible so the concept of them being analogous to copyrighted works is not nearly so strong as the idea that they are a protected work of the human producer IF COPYRIGHT IS CONSIDERED TO BE GOD MANDATED. If copyright infringement is theft then copyright law must necessarily be mandated by God as prohibition against theft is God given.

Re:a system that pays attention to impenetrability

[Anonymous Coward]

Spoken like an American president.

Step 1: Blame Arabs.

Step 2: Clamp down on your own citizens.

Step 3: Repeat.

Is there anything special about RIM security?

[sl149q]

What is so special about RIM security (speaking as a non-RIM user here...)?

If I have a Blackberry (or any smartphone, say Android or iPhone) don't I just point at a mail server with IMAP and pick up stuff with SSL/TLS? Are the "spies" so stupid that they wouldn't just point a a non RIM mail server?

And as mentioned above then you can start using PGP for the content as well.

Re:Is there anything special about RIM security?

[flyingfsck]

Fortunately, most spies and terrs really are that stupid.

Re:Is there anything special about RIM security?

[oiron]

Another non-blackberry user here, but from what I understand, what they provide is something like PGP on top of mail; your message gets encrypted using a private/public key system such that it's not vulnerable to man-in-the-middle attacks, which SSL/TLS (https/imaps) can be susceptible to.

Re:Is there anything special about RIM security?

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe how Blackberry email works is that *everything* goes through RIM's servers. You can't point it at a non-RIM server; at least not without some hacking.

Re:Is there anything special about RIM security?

[Lehk228]

the blackberry connects to RIM and RIM connects to your email, or if you are corporate the blackberry points to the corporate BES server, the link between the handset and RIM or between the handset and your company's BES server is heavilly encrypted, and in the case of BES servers even RIM cannot access the data, only your company's security staff and other authorized users, making it suitable for communicating confidential and trade secret information that a regular smartphone should not be handling. BES is also able to remotely control security settings and initiate a secure wipe.

Re:Is there anything special about RIM security?

[alfredos]

I have managed a Blackberry Enterprise Server. I don't want to manage another one. It's weird and, as you say, you can't get control of everything without nontrivial hacking. That was the first thing I deeply disliked about it (there are more, but not relevant to this discussion).

If that architecture works for them, then good for them. However, I can understand that governments get pissed about it. Heck, even the (rest of the) US government was quite pissed when Obama stated he wouldn't give up on his Blackberry

Re:Is there anything special about RIM security?

[AHuxley]

Quality point to point encryption via Canada is the big seller.

Re:Is there anything special about RIM security?

[drolli]

Also speaking as a non-RIM user:

does your phone warn you if you encounter a changed ssl certificate for the domain your mail client is connecting to?

Re:Is there anything special about RIM security?

[Anonymous Coward]

The concern is not about email, it as about Blackberry's encrypted instant messaging PIN service. Every blackberry user has a unique 8 digit hexadecimal ID. If you know someone's PIN (and you generally do for your colleagues, because the global address book synchronization gives it to you) you can "pin" them directly and they get the message instantly WITHOUT it running over any email protocol or mail server.

Re:Is there anything special about RIM security?

[binaryspiral]

Get an iPhone or windows mobile and get yourself a hosted exchange account in anoter country. Same deal only not centralized like rim.

If I were to travel to UAE with my iPhone would they block the encrypted link to my Exchange server?

Re:Is there anything special about RIM security?

[Lehk228]

if your company has a BES server it's not centralized, it all goes through your corporate BES server.

Re:Is there anything special about RIM security?

[trapnest]

I powered up a blackberry that had been off for a few years. The clock was set to not get the current time from the network and was set to some time in 2007, making most (if not all) of the security certificates invalid. The Blackberry displayed a warning dialog for every connection till we corrected the date. So yes, BBs do warn for invalid certs.

Re:Is there anything special about RIM security?

[drolli]

my comment was about the other phones. I hope BBs check the certificate. i know other phones cant do it correctly.

Re:Is there anything special about RIM security?

[Anonymous Coward]

People are confusing BES with BIS and email with BBM. BlackBerry Messenger (BBM) is the apparent target of these governments and since the "terrorists" in Mumbai allegedly used BBM to communicate it seems India and other governments want access to the unencrypted content. Organizations with their own BlackBerry Enterprise Server (BES) are probably immune from such spying since the organization holds their own encryption keys. I am not a fan of RIM as a BlackBerry user for handing over the encryptions keys regardless of the alleged "national security and public protection" aspects epoused by India et al. By the way, RIM is a Canadian firm located in Waterloo, Ontario. RIM is NOT a US company.

Re:Is there anything special about RIM security?

[falconwolf]

Get an iPhone or windows mobile and get yourself a hosted exchange account in anoter country. Same deal only not centralized like rim.

Businesses can set up their own Blackberry Enterprise Server, so Blackberries can be decentralized.

Falcon

RIM is Canadian.

[Anonymous Coward]

Research In Motion Limited (RIM) (TSX: RIM, NASDAQ: RIMM) is a Canadian telecommunication and wireless device company best known as the developer of the BlackBerry smartphone.

Please explain how a Canadian company has anything to do with what the US demands?

Re:RIM is Canadian.

[Anonymous Coward]

The CIA outsources all the time. Especially to Canada (and the UK, and Australia).

Re:RIM is Canadian.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh really, and you have proof of it in this instance?!

Re:RIM is Canadian.

[AHuxley]

A Canadian company has to bend over to to wishes of the Canadian gov that enjoys working with the NSA.
Canada did consider going it alone for crypto after ww2, the the US and the UK both had reasons to pull Canada back in.
The US did not want an intel free for all between the UK and Canada. So the US/NSA worked very hard to make sure Canada got crypto and intel as did the UK, NZ and Australia. The gift back was very close, long term work. The idea that Canadian crypto work, public or private was ever outside "US demands" over many decades would be very very strange.

Re:RIM is Canadian.

[Anonymous Coward]

yes; I have seen the contract documents.

Re:RIM is Canadian.

[ScrewMaster]

yes; I have seen the contract documents.

I will re-iterate the GP's comment: Oh really, and you have proof of it in this instance?!

Saying you've seen documents is not proof. It's just ... some A.C. on Slashdot saying he saw documents. Meaningless.

I Know!

[PinkyGigglebrain]

The rulers of Dubai wants to know what the CEO of Haliburton is doing.

Or they just want to be sure that its harder for the rest of the world find out about its dark side.

Just as well I was already planing to never visit the place.

First...

[Anonymous Coward]

First they came for the iPhones, and i did not do anything because I did not own one.

Then they came for my intenret and filtered. I did not do anything because I had Tor.

Then they came for Tor, but by now I had my Blackberry, because it is harder to crack.

Then they came for me, because I couldn't have a thought to myself, and there was no way to rally anon.

If only he knew.

[stalkedlongtime]

It's

Re:If only he knew.

[EnsilZah]

Monty Python's Flying Circus?

Let's try this again. "If only he knew..."

[stalkedlongtime]

It's practically a given that TEMPEST-like capabilities moved to satellites, decades ago. Combine that with ECHELON or something like it, and everything that everyone is displaying on their screens (Internet-connected or not) is probably being hoovered up by at least one intelligence agency. Including what's on the screens of those precious Blackberries.

One single mistake and BB/RIM will be doomed

[Ilgaz]

Everyone in civilized/democratic places, especially large businesses which are RIM's real market are watching these news.

If Blackberry is magically loved in those territories, it means they handed the keys to them and people will immediately think they are _already_ being watched for a long time.

I really think RIM should consider getting OUT of these markets instead of losing the image of secure communications. Once they lose it, it will be like a domino.

Look to Youtube, a certain country said "pull this video, pull that, setup office here, pay taxes". You know what Youtube did? Ignored! Don't they lose money/marketshare? Of course they do.

It is a closed system, that is where they lose. Nokia or Apple can say "hey, they are enabling SSL on IMAP, there is absolutely nothing we can do." RIM, as there is a central server, can't do it.

It is always and always about open standards.

Re:One single mistake and BB/RIM will be doomed

[Lehk228]

i would rather see an option for handset to handset crypto, allow secure messages between non-BES handsets and handsets on different BES servers. they could use the barcode scan system that the latest version of BB messenger uses to add friends using the screen and camera

Re:One single mistake and BB/RIM will be doomed

[noidentity]

It is a closed system, that is where they lose. Nokia or Apple can say "hey, they are enabling SSL on IMAP, there is absolutely nothing we can do." RIM, as there is a central server, can't do it.

Good point. When one has a choice, better to put one's trust in an algorithm or design that is (apparently) secure, than a company that could be corrupted by governments, insiders, etc.

Re:One single mistake and BB/RIM will be doomed

[Anonymous Coward]

Look to Youtube, a certain country said "pull this video, pull that, setup office here, pay taxes". You know what Youtube did? Ignored!

Youtube blocks a MASSIVE amount of videos for Germans because of the local rights-management scumbags GEMA (government-backed monopoly). Plus they are still negotiating over a fee per video. I wish they'd just ignore them but they caved to many of their demands.

Re:One single mistake and BB/RIM will be doomed

[mxs]

Look to Youtube, a certain country said "pull this video, pull that, setup office here, pay taxes". You know what Youtube did? Ignored! Don't they lose money/marketshare? Of course they do.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is simply not true. Try surfing YouTube in Germany, for instance. Lots and LOTS of videos are pulled or "not available in your country", they do pay out some local media conglomerates, and, guess what, Google has offices here too.

Re:One single mistake and BB/RIM will be doomed

[drinkypoo]

Everyone in civilized/democratic places, especially large businesses which are RIM's real market are watching these news.

If Blackberry is magically loved in those territories, it means they handed the keys to them and people will immediately think they are _already_ being watched for a long time.

I don't know about you, but I in particular live in a country where the government is known to have tapped all long distance voice calls and all internet traffic. Obviously they can't scan all internet traffic for keywords but they can scan a subset. To me, to believe that the US government is NOT listening in on crackberries would be the height of naivety.

Re:One single mistake and BB/RIM will be doomed

[Kjella]

Look to Youtube, a certain country said "pull this video, pull that, setup office here, pay taxes". You know what Youtube did? Ignored! Don't they lose money/marketshare? Of course they do.

YouTube got it easy, they don't have to "shut down" anything. It's highly unlikely users will get harassed for finding a way to visit YouTube. I think there's even legislation in place to prevent a US-based service from being arsed by foreign libel lawsuits and the like. RIM is a physical product, they probably have offices with a lease, people with work contracts and most of all if they'd harass everyone with a Blackberry or worse, confiscate them then that would have a rather big business impact. It might still be the right decision, but I don't think the situations are that comparable.

Re:One single mistake and BB/RIM will be doomed

[binaryspiral]

Open standards or ActiveSync with exchange. Gives you the same basic features as BES (encrypted traffic, remote wipe, and policy enforcement) without a central network.

Each exchange server uses it's own ssl certain

Re:One single mistake and BB/RIM will be doomed

[Late Adopter]

I am curious how many of those videos are unavailable because Google can't legally distribute them under copyright law (or contractual agreement, etc), or because they can't legally distribute them under offensiveness statutes.

At least with the latter Google can't be sued in the US for their actions in foreign markets.

Re:One single mistake and BB/RIM will be doomed

[mxs]

It's almost entirely the former.

"Offensiveness"-statutes would be porn (which Google does not allow on YouTube in any case, in no jurisdiction), and stuff related to hatespeech and Nazi symbols -- though I somehow suspect that Sony/BMG/EMI would not be cited as the culprits for blocking in that case. Furthermore, most hatespeech is probably against the general ToS of YouTube, as well ;)

when you start in the title it makes

[Anonymous Coward]

it harder to read.

But a tool for whom

[dissy]

Dubai's Police Chief Calls BlackBerry a Spy Tool

So the Blackberry is a spy tool for spies, right up until the police are allowed to use it as a tool to spy on people, then its an OK tool. Right?

Re:But a tool for whom

[stalkedlongtime]

Right, what they're really annoyed about is being left out of the spying loop.

Re:But a tool for whom

[RCourtney]

"As of 2005, 17% of the population of the emirate was made up of UAE nationals. Approximately 85% of the expatriate population (and 71% of the emirate's total population) was Asian, chiefly Indian (51%), Pakistani (16%), Bangladeshi (9%) and Filipino (3%)." - Demographics of Dubai

Less than 20% of the population of Dubai are actual citizens of the UAE. The vast majority of the people in Dubai are imported non-citizen expats. Given that, I'm just surprised stuff like this doesn't surface more often in the name of 'national security' etc.

if i steal your bike

[circletimessquare]

you have no bike

if i copy a file, we both have a file

where's the theft?

saying copying files is like theft is like saying looking at a picture of your wife is the same as having sex with your wife

you don't even understand the basics of what you are talking about, in a manner a kindergartener could understand the difference

Re:if i steal your bike

[frehe]

If I copy your $100 bill, we both have a $100 bill, but I have lowered the value of your bill.

If I copy a movie, I have less incentive to rent or buy the same movie, or to watch it at the cinema, so I have lowered the chance that the people who financed the movie will make a profit on it and finance more movies.

If I copy nude pictures you have taken of your wife, you still have your wife and the pictures, but both of you might feel insulted by my disregard for your rights to property and privacy.

Re:if i steal your bike

[Anonymous Coward]

It's absolutely not theft...it's illegal broadcasting and should be taken up by the FCC.

Re:if i steal your bike

[Anonymous Coward]

you have no bike

if i copy a file, we both have a file

Thank you for making this point. It's *never* been made on Slashdot before. It's not as if it's uttered as a predictably reflexive response in *every fucking discussion on copyright*, the same discussion that follows the exact same tedious template and making of points that anyone who's been around here more than a month has heard countless times before.

So yeah, we really wanted another carbon-copy discussion on IP. Thanks!

Re:if i steal your bike

[flyneye]

I dunno about looking at pictures, but I think the husbands hiding their women under burkas (dunno the spelling) may offend themselves with you rubbernecking their women with the veil down. He may take your bike and your computer with all the files and call you a spy and throw you in the prison to be sodomized by prisoners who've been womenless for years. With you impaled in prison over there your kid goes to a public kindergarten here and gets dumbed down by the Obama administration because you hadta have a copy of photoshop. It's all connected somehow cause if it's not one damn thing it's another and you know what they say... Y'know someone told me something once but I forgot what it was.

Re:if i steal your bike

[flyneye]

"Hey buddy,get out of my wife!" --Fred Lane

Re:Let's try this again. "If only he knew..."

[Panaflex]

TEMPEST at a few hundred feet is pretty remarkable... you think it can be done in a satellite 50 miles high? Plus there's considerations such as the van allen belt and the ionosphere acting upon wavelength propagation, never mind the noise and attenuation distortions wielded upon an 2GHz+ clock rate of a typical system bus, or voltage balanced and shielded video cables at such great distances.

Now if you're thinking about satellite sweeping for wifi or cellular then it would be almost a given and certainly has a precedent - but otherwise I'm unconvinced that something could filter though a trashheap of digital noise from that distance.

Just mobile? What about internet?

[gmuslera]

https is a spy tool too? If i go with https to gmail, and post anything, unless they have a keylogger or something similar in whatever im using to access it, functionally are in the same situation. Worse, what about crypto tech? Tor?

quality of the tool depends on the user

[ChipMonk]

In the hands of a skilled person, including a skilled spy, anything can be useful for any purpose. Even a common orange has its place in a spy's toolkit. Do you really think that's chewing gum in his mouth?

Every tool has uses that conformists never ponder. Critical thinkers are already ahead of the curve of every government. Of course, no government is willing to admit it (out loud).

Re:quality of the tool depends on the user

[jd2112]

In the hands of a skilled person, including a skilled spy, anything can be useful for any purpose. Even a common orange has its place in a spy's toolkit. Do you really think that's chewing gum in his mouth?

Even Paris Hilton has 'Special' gum....

Re:quality of the tool depends on the user

[ScrewMaster]

In the hands of a skilled person, including a skilled spy, anything can be useful for any purpose. Even a common orange has its place in a spy's toolkit. Do you really think that's chewing gum in his mouth?

Even Paris Hilton has 'Special' gum....

Yes, and she is glad to see you.

Re:quality of the tool depends on the user

[neminem]

My favorite Michael Westen quote: "I'll take a hardware store over a gun any day. Guns make you stupid. Better to fight your wars with duct tape. Duct tape makes you smart." I should really get that t-shirt.

Big secrets!

[Anonymous Coward]

What's there to spy on in Dubai anyway? Just because they have a tall building, they think they're some hot sh*t world power or something.

POTUS uses a PDA

[DigiShaman]

Doesn't BHO have a custom BB that's had the security improved to meet special NSA requirements? Or would be now be using some other PDA?

I guess he'll no longer be able to take his BB with him to Dubai.

Re:POTUS uses a PDA

[threephaseboy]

It's supposedly this thing

Re:i'm so sick of this equivalency

[Anonymous Coward]

you are a fucking idiot.

Phoning it in

[sensationull]

Damn, even the spys are just phoning it in now.

Only if they were dumb about it

[Sycraft-fu]

If they were all passing through Blackberry's central servers, then sure, I'd be worried. However if they had their own BES and were doing end-to-end encryption to it (which it will do, that's why the US government uses them)? Then no.

Also I'd be far more worried about regular cell phones and the like, I'd think the NSA would have a much easier time monitoring those.

This Blackberry shit really looks like BS. It looks like corrupt officials want to get access to what is happening in their country so they can be more corrupt.

Also I'm sorry, but the US really DOES have a better record protecting people's rights and privacies than China. Perfect? No, but you tell me the nation you think is perfect, I'll show you the nation you aren't educated about. If I ran a multinational company, I wouldn't really worry about the US government getting in to our private communications to spy on us and had over our information to a US company. I would very much worry about China doing that.

Re:Only if they were dumb about it

[DDLKermit007]

Well China is a fairly easy target to beatup. Seeing as how government officials have repeatedly been showing willingness to screw over one party, or a foreign business group for the benefit of someone they know. There, the government is just a partner of your business. If they aren't? You can bet your ass they'll be helping your competitor because you wern't in lock step with them.

Hit submit by accident

[Sycraft-fu]

What I was also going to say is: If I was a counter-intelligence chief and particularly one in a country where the government could force their will internally easier than the US, and I was concerned about a device being used to spy, I'd push to have the device banned. We'd work to get rid of them and run public education campaigns letting people know that they could be spied on using them. That is how to make it safe. I wouldn't ask for access to the data. That gets me nothing in terms of preventing others from using it.

It would be like upon finding out that someone had bugged private political offices going to the person who planted the bugs and not arresting them, but saying "It's cool, just let me listen in too." If I wanted to stop the spying, I'd remove the bugs and arrest the person who placed them.

If you do that, you aren't concerned about stopping spying, you are the one who wants to do the spying.

Re:Hit submit by accident

[stephanruby]

What I was also going to say is: If I was a counter-intelligence chief and particularly one in a country where the government could force their will internally easier than the US, and I was concerned about a device being used to spy, I'd push to have the device banned. We'd work to get rid of them and run public education campaigns letting people know that they could be spied on using them.

This is actually what France did three years ago, not that this worked very well. Some French officials (and heads of companies) are still using their Blackberries in secret, because the replacements the French government gave them didn't even work properly. Plus, there is also the problem of family members and mistresses using Blackberries. Those may not directly leak national/trade secrets, but they can leak information that could still be leveraged against the officials/CEOs they're connected to.

Dubai's Police Chief Calls BlackBerry a Spy Tool

[IorDMUX]

Very well.

I call Dubai's police chief a Tool.

Re:i'm so sick of this equivalency

[Nursie]

"let's get this straight right off: there never existed, does not exist, and never will exist a government that does not spy on its citizens
do you understand that? it's called law enforcement."

FAIL.

Law enforcement doesn't need to spy and should not spy without reason and a court order. It is spying and watching as a matter of course,, prying into everyone's lives for no reason, that is the issue here.

And for fuck's sake lay off the "you just try that in iran and china!" line, it makes you look like a moron. Being better than some of the most repressive regimes on the planet isn't enough for me, is it enough for you?

Dubai's Police Chief Calls BlackBerry a Spy Tool

[Anonymous Coward]

Quote: "unless it gets access to encrypted data" Yes sure... If I go in Dubai, I'll be pleased that they have access to all my decrypted communication...

Re:i'm so sick of this equivalency

[roman_mir]

aaah, the usual circletimessquare, trolling some more.

Flame on, circletimes, flame on.

The west already wiretaps Blackberry emails

[Anonymous Coward]

Western intelligence services already have access to Blackberry servers - and had for years.

Beyond actual wiretap API interfaces provided by RIM there's also a net of broad packet-capture: as had been documented in detail here on Slashdot, AT&T had been running raw, spliced optical cables straight to the NSA headquarters since late 2001, carrying most of the raw IP traffic in the USA - including most unencrypted Blackberry emails as well.

Any new encrypted service that offers no access for intelligence and police you are hearing repeat stories about how they support terrorists or criminals - until they provide that access. (In most western countries companies are obliged to offer wire-tap access to authorities: Germany, UK and USA are amongst them)

The general public will rarely hear about actual usage of these broad wiretaps - as it's covered in secrecy with 'national security letters' and their legal equivalents.

While you might dismiss the UAE's concerns with "it's not a democracy", lets look at a similar case: India's problem with not being able to wiretap Blackberry phones - in the wake of the Bombay terrorist attacks that left 150+ people dead. (India's 911, so to speak.)

So how can we in the West deny India (the world's largest democracy) access to unencrypted Blackberry traffic for criminal, security and military reasons, without being hypocrites?

Conversely, how would western intelligence agencies react if Blackberry were run by an indian company and all the servers were in India, and India refused access to unencrypted emails?

Can you answer these questions fairly and consistently?

Re:The west already wiretaps Blackberry emails

[Compaqt]

Do you have a source for your assertion that Western intelligence agencies already have full access to Blackberries? (Maybe it's true, I just hadn't seen that.)

I realize that tapping situation, but that's only good for non-encrypted traffic.

By the way, it seems the India attacks were done with in-the-clear communication. As such, I don't know how India can use them as an excuse for all surveillance all the time like they want now.

Re:The west already wiretaps Blackberry emails

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have a source for your assertion that Western intelligence agencies already have full access to Blackberries?

Sure, here's a recent article from Reuters:

"U.S. authorities able to tap BlackBerry messaging."

Re:The west already wiretaps Blackberry emails

[Anonymous Coward]

By the way, it seems the India attacks were done with in-the-clear communication. As such, I don't know how India can use them as an excuse for all surveillance all the time like they want now.

If by 'in the clear' you mean regular GSM "encrypted" then yes - and indeed it was already interceptable with existing surveilance technologies.

But that is not at all relevant once a country's intelligence agencies enter full-scale security theatre mode after a big, surprising attack.

For example the 911 attackers only used in-the-clear communication. They used regular international phone calls and mails, they used regular international bank wires. All those channels of communication were already interceptable - in fact they were intercepted and some of the attackers were under observation by the NSA in 2000/2001.

That didn't matter after the attacks: everything was intercepted after 911, on presidential authorization. Privileged attorney-client communication? Domestic calls? Full internet traffic? Privileged doctor/patient communications? All bank wires, identities, account numbers, home addresses, highly confidential bank document transfers, bank encryption keys, etc. on the planet going via the SWIFT network, most of which do not involve the US? Privileged journalist/source communications? You name it.

And you cannot blame the security agencies for asking for that. Missing the 'big one' isn't necessarily a career ending move, if the surprise factor and the brutality of the attack is so large. "Who could have expected that!". But missing a second attack along similar lines? That's inexcusable.

Imagine the conversation after (theoretical) Bombay Attacks II: "We could not eavesdrop on them because this time they ... did not use GSM phones but Blackberries, and we cannot intercept those. We were cruelly outwitted!"

The real issue

[lewko]

Dubai's police chief says concern over espionage (specifically, by the US and Israel) led to the decision to limit BlackBerry services.

Well of course he would say that. Despotic Arab regimes have always used the US and Israel as an excuse for their own totalitarianism and oppression of minorities.

The article details the real reason, as if it wasn't obvious:
Tamim told a conference on information technology that the proposed BlackBerry curbs are also "meant to control false rumors and defamation of public figures due to the absence of surveillance,"

Translation: It promotes freedom of expression, and limits the government's ability to control its people, which frightens the shit out of Arab dictators.

Re:The real issue

[Anonymous Coward]

Except smartass, this time Israeli spies really did land in Dubai, use Blackberries, assassinated someone and left.

Dubai police can't decrypt the messages sent by the spies.

DO YOU SEE THE PROBLEM? OR ARE YOU TOO MUCH OF AN AMERIC*NT TO FIGURE IT OUT?

Re:The real issue

[ScrewMaster]

Except smartass, this time Israeli spies really did land in Dubai, use Blackberries, assassinated someone and left.

Dubai police can't decrypt the messages sent by the spies.

DO YOU SEE THE PROBLEM? OR ARE YOU TOO MUCH OF AN AMERIC*NT TO FIGURE IT OUT?

Yes, because of course a highly-trained and experienced Israeli hit squad couldn't have just used regular unencrypted voice telephony to complete their mission. They hardly needed Blackberries, assuming they really did what they're accused of (not saying they didn't, nor do I care for that matter.) All that will happen is that the Israelis, the next time they decide to whack someone in Dubai, won't bother using Blackberries. For that matter, now that they know the things are being monitored, they can probably use that fact for some misdirection. Consequently, this has no benefit to the UAE so far as a defense from Israeli spies is concerned. Not much good so far as internal threats go, I might add, now that everyone knows what's going on. So spare us your stupid anti-American commentary. This has nothing to do with the U.S., has nothing to do with Israel, this has to do with yet another government afraid of its own people.

DO YOU GET THAT? OR ARE YOU TOO MUCH OF AN IDIOT TO FIGURE IT OUT?

Rhetorical question.

Re:The real issue

[Anonymous Coward]

not unlike how many western countries use, muslim terrorist, pedos and drug dealers .....

Re:Let's try this again. "If only he knew..."

[lewko]

I need thicker tinfoil.

To put it this way

[JanneM]

Say that there's a group of people connected to some country that is opposed to US and its interests. There's a fair amount of resentment towards the US and its culture, and the country isn't exactly known as peace-loving and dovish. These people could be semi-official (non-legal spies from their embassies), or they could be private people working for this country.

US intelligence people find out about these people, try to track them, see what they're up to. Unfortunately, a lot of their communication is going over heavily encrypted links, provided by a private company that also sells these devices in the US.

Now, would anybody be surprised or particularly upset if the US demanded access to encrypted communications from that private company or threaten to lose the US market if they don't comply?

Re:To put it this way

[Dunbal]

Now, would anybody be surprised or particularly upset if the US demanded access to encrypted communications from that private company or threaten to lose the US market if they don't comply?

      The US is full of sheep, making your argument a moot point. Considering what has been done and what the government has gotten away with in the past 10 years or so, apparently only a not very vocal minority would be upset at all. Most people would support more government spying because ZOMG TERRORISTS!

A spy tool?

[Anonymous Coward]

For the UAE government. Yes. This "reasoning" is just so very believable. Why is it the stupid ones always end up in government? Don't answer that. Do something about it instead.

India

[guyminuslife]

Is it just me, or is it that since RIM's shown that they'd give ground to world governments (even if it's a face-saving maneuver, as some here have said), that everybody and their brother now wants access to their servers?

Re:i'm so sick of this equivalency

[the_womble]

That is the way it should be, but it is not the way it is anymore.

There has been warrantless tapping in the US, and a reduction in oversight generally, while EU law now REQUIRES that ISPs and phone companies record EVERYONE's activities/

Re:Let's try this again. "If only he knew..."

[Anonymous Coward]

around your dick

Nothing to do with it ...

[daveime]

Having spent a couple of years in the UAE back in the 90's, I can tell you the ban has NOTHING to do with spying, and everything to do with Etisalat (the national phone company) desire to control all aspects of IT in the country.

Years ago, at the advent of the mobile, you could get one (1) model of phone in Abu Dhabi ... the "Hud Hud 1" was the model name, I remember it fondly, with it's external antenna that almost took your eye out, and it's inability to hold a call for more than 5 minutes. You couldn't even use it indoors, I had to sit outside in the bloody desert with only camel spiders for company, to call my girlfriend who worked in Abu Dhabi city. Text hadn't even been invented, so it was calls only.

There was one (1) phone model, one (1) line provider, one (1) internet provider, one (1) e-mail service, and it was All Etisalat provided.

Now, 12 years, later, there is a few more phone models, but still only one (1) line provider, one (1) internet provider, one (1) e-mail service ... wanna take a guess who it is ?

Whichever of Sheikh Khalifa's brothers is running Etisalat doesn't want his business fucked up, and the possibility of anyone using IT without Etisalat getting their pound of flesh is unthinkable. THAT is why they are putting the screws on RIM.

Re:Nothing to do with it ...

[Anonymous Coward]

This might have been the case when you were there, but is not so any longer.

A few more phone models? More like any model you could find in the US/Europe. There are several phone/internet provider alternatives (the most popular alternative is "du").

Re:Nothing to do with it ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Etisalat is not alone. Du is another provider to choose from.

Re:Nothing to do with it ...

[binaryspiral]

RIM would do well to pull out of UAE and show the world they give a shit about their customers' privacy and won't be bullied like a third rate carrier into handing over the keys to the castle.

Re:Nothing to do with it ...

[auric_dude]

They may well be the bad guys http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/08/14/0012254/EFF-Asks-Verizon-Whether-Etisalat-Deserves-CA-Trust

Re:Nothing to do with it ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Etisalat owns a significant portion of du, so this is little in the way of real competition.

Re:Nothing to do with it ...

[Anonymous Coward]

The above post is just spreading FUD. Having lived in the UAE for well over a decade and still having my company's headquarters there I can attest that several of your statements are in fact completely false.

1) Dubai has one of the largest mobile markets in Asia and the world. It's a multi billion dollar industry where mobiles are shipped globally (Europe, Africa and Asia) due to it's tax free status and there is no restriction whatsoever of using your own unlocked mobile on Etisalat's networks. In fact the variety of mobiles used in Dubai is second to no other city I have seen anywhere on the 6 continents have have traveled to, other than possibly Hong Kong, and Singapore. I used to bring back phones to my friends in the US over 10 years ago who's jaws would drop and wonder what kind of future technology I had bought back due to the lag in local carriers adopting new handsets (which still exists today).

2) Etisalat is not the only phone provider in the UAE and has not been for quite some time now. Please do your research AND still more operators are negotiating terms as we speak. Etisalat is not able to handle all the traffic in the country and they have realized this years ago.

Not to spread more FUD but your post seems like one that was written by someone embittered by the country, perhaps you got into bad investments and decided it was time to leave, like so many expats who haven't be able to cut it have?

Re:Nothing to do with it ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Now, 12 years, later, there is a few more phone models, but still only one (1) line provider, one (1) internet provider, one (1) e-mail service ... wanna take a guess who it is ?

Whichever of Sheikh Khalifa's brothers is running Etisalat doesn't want his business fucked up, and the possibility of anyone using IT without Etisalat getting their pound of flesh is unthinkable. THAT is why they are putting the screws on RIM.

You most likely don't live in Dubai anymore.

UAE has got another telphone/internet provider since 2006: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_Integrated_Telecommunications_Company.

UAE?

[schizz69]

Seriously? Isn't it time we boycotted these totalitarian regimes in the middle east? Freedom of speech? --- NO! Net neutrality? ---- NO! Freedom of expression? --- NO! Somber existence? --- NO! Pancakes for breakfast? ---- NO! Sex with my wife's sister? --- NO! Fun? --- NO! God bless the west!!!!

If

[Dunbal]

The blackberry is a spy tool then surely the Dubai police are terrorists...

Re:i'm so sick of this equivalency

[Anonymous Coward]

>do you understand that? it's called law enforcement.

The problem is not with spying, the problem is with effortless inexpensive spying without judical oversight and due cause.

>kiddie porn? is it ok to crack down on people trading that in your mind? no? ok, you're a moron. because 100% of governments do

They don't. Since you aren't "out of touch with reality", as you put it, you know that. They say they do but they don't. And they don't have it as a goal either. Learn the difference between what people say they do and what people do. Especially if they have free reign.

>now how about political speech? is it a problem if a country snoops on simple political speech? no?

It is a huge problem and the end of a democratic republic. If you can't communicate with others, how to find out what the consens of the citizens is (as opposed to what media wants you to think)?

>substantiative difference between what the us and uk snoop on and consider problematic, and what iran and china snoop on and consider problematic: namely, criticism of your own fucking government

I refuse to be measured by the lowest possible lows as a reference. If it comes to that, we have already lost.

>openly and freely tolerates criticism of itself?

Um, what planet is that on?

The ND license of Revelation

[tepples]

Apart from the 1611 edition, the majority of translations of the Bible into English are copyrighted. Furthermore, the book of Revelation has what appears to be a NoDerivs license on it: (Rev 22:18-19).

Re:The ND license of Revelation

[khallow]

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Ok, that is a valid counterexample.

Iridium

[Wormholio]

RIM needs to make a blackberry device that can use the Iridium satellite network.

What are you talking about?

[Anonymous Coward]

Calling Dubai despotic is like calling Monaco barbaric.

Contributions

[b4upoo]

Dubai can have no direct military interests from us as they are essentially an unarmed society. But I would bet money that we do keep tabs to see if governments are supporting terrorist groups in near by states. If the politics of the region cause Dubai to be pumping money to the Taliban then Dubai becomes a legitimate target for our military. We also need to know if Dubai is supporting Iran.

Re:i'm so sick of this equivalency

[jedidiah]

> you are a fucking idiot.

NO. It looks like someone hit YOU a little to close to where you live.

Cell phone is worse than a weapon???

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Here in Massachusetts, the courthouses have installed metal detectors in the doorways over the past few years. ... That's right, they were classifying pocket knives as "weapons".

Actually, the stupidity of some courts get even more outlandish. In at least one Massachusetts court you cannot bring a cell phone into the court at all if you are not a lawyer or court employee. Furthermore, while they will hold a pocket knife for you until you leave, they will not hold your cell phone. On top of that they have removed all pay phones, so if you don't own a vehicle to keep it in you either stash it in the woods and hope it doesn't get stolen or don't bring it all and have no way to call your friend or a cab to pick you up.

Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

Dhahi Khalfan is known for his crazy antics and statements that most of us here just laugh at. The assertion that his views reflect that of the government is at best ill-informed.

Europeans too

[Anonymous Coward]

They also boarded an aid ship, in international waters and shot 8 EUROPEANS, so it makes sense to protect your communications from Israel.

Look at it a different way, there is $2 billion a year sent from the USA to Israel, and organizations that lobby openly to protect that money (I assume a portion of the money finds its way back to keep US politicians sweet).
http://motherjones.com/politics/2009/09/aipac-still-chosen-one

If you oppose that and started campaigning, it is a risk to you to have Israel be able to intercept your comms. And that covers the majority of US citizens, since the majority of USA citizens oppose funding Israel.

Gentlemen...

[Anonymous Coward]

...next thing you know they are going to ban digital watches, thinking that they are some kind of cloaking device.

Tourism Stirrism

[Tablizer]

With all their financial troubles, why is Dubai working extra hard to drive out tourists? Its economy largely depends on tourism. Their scary anti-romance laws are already one detractor. Simplify the process and just pull out a gun and shoot all their feet there.

My spy tool

[Anonymous Coward]

My penis is a spy tool because it's so small it can fit in anywhere undetected.

Wow, such misdirection.

[Anonymous Coward]

India's policeman trots out Israel and the US as the "reason" they failed to protect a terrorist leader? Instead of realizing that some outside entity did the job he was unable (or unwilling) to do, he's bemoaning the act the Hamas is gone.

Then again, its clear as a bell.

To be fair...

[Lord Kano]

You don't think that they haven't given the same access to the US and Israeli governments, do you?

LK

It doesn't take much to torture a person.

[falconwolf]

True but information gathered that way can not be trusted. Even if they know nothing people being tortured will say anything to end the torture.

Falcon

Just setup a VPN in the UAE for voice....

[AsnFkr]

Hilariously, I'm in the UAE at the moment and wanted to call my Dad (who is in the states) from my Skype account to his cell phone. Unfortunately, the UAE blocks Skype -> phone (oddly Skype -> Skype works fine) calls so I just used logmein to connect to a XP box I have in the states, flip on the VPN setting, forward the ports on the router and then connect to it from my win7 box here in the UAE thus mading the call with no troubles. Took 5 minutes total, and I had never once made a VPN before...so if they are trying to stop terrorist activity or whatever they are going to need to try harder.

One Word Summary Of Dubai

[Anonymous Coward]

Fascism.

Yours In Ashgabat,
Kilgore Trout

What anti-romance laws?

[justinlee37]

Your statement piqued my curiosity but 5 minutes of searching on Google revealed nothing. What are these anti-romance laws? Can you describe them or offer a link? Thanks!

Well

[Lanteran]

We all know that people who like privacy are traitors; if you've got nothing to hide, why would you not want big brother to be watching you?

Re:Dubai's Police Chief Calls BlackBerry a Spy Too

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because Dubai's Chief of Police is no Chief of Police you've ever met. He's probably one of the sons of a mid-level native family who got the job because that's the kind of job that "locals" get. He has little training, no qualifications, and no experience worth talking about. So we're lucky he doesn't want to ban lightsabers because he's seen "the bad guys" use them in the movies once.

Re:Let's try this again. "If only he knew..."

[RocketRabbit]

Of course electronic surveillance is possible from space. In fact, we have been putting birds up to do just this for at least thirty years.

The space borne receiving equipment does not have to cut the noise on it's own - that is for the signal analysis stage, down the pipeline from collection.

Re:Dubai's Police Chief Calls BlackBerry a Spy Too

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, this is a very likely scenario. I've spent time there. UAE is basically a piece of desert with shopping malls and ultra-luxury hotels deposited on it.

The majority of the population are extremely low paid immigrants, living in ghettos and it's governed as if the year were 1200. The indigenous population float above it all, holding the top positions on zero merit.

They've basically imported their middle and lower classes. You will not find an Emirati taxi driver or barista.