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Amid Controversy, EA Pulls Taliban From Medal of Honor Multiplayer

Last month we discussed news that upcoming shooter Medal of Honor would allow players to take the role of Taliban forces in multiplayer games, causing no small amount of consternation among political groups and military supporters. Now, Electronic Arts and developer Danger Close have bowed to pressure and announced that the Taliban side would simply be referred to as "opposing force." Quoting executive producer Greg Goodrich: "The majority of this feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. For this, the Medal of Honor team is deeply appreciative. However, we have also received feedback from friends and families of fallen soldiers who have expressed concern over the inclusion of the Taliban in the multiplayer portion of our game. This is a very important voice to the Medal of Honor team. This is a voice that has earned the right to be listened to. It is a voice that we care deeply about. ... While this change should not directly affect gamers, as it does not fundamentally alter the gameplay, we are making this change for the men and women serving in the military and for the families of those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice — this franchise will never willfully disrespect, intentionally or otherwise, your memory and service."

71 of 495 comments (clear)

  1. Well that's stupid. by mweather · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My grandfather died in WW2, could you please remove the Germans from all your future WW2 games as well? The Japanese, too.

    1. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      WW2 has long since ended. A major part of the controversy here is that the war is still happening; there are still soldiers in harm's way or dying. This is why AAFES chose not to stock this game, in an effort to reduce the number of reminders that bring undue stress into the lives of families waiting for their loved ones to return.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    2. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 4, Insightful

      in an effort to reduce the number of reminders that bring undue stress into the lives of families waiting for their loved ones to return.

      Huh? None of these whiners were going to buy this game to begin with so how are they being put under undue stress because someone else is playing a game where you can play people labeled as the Taliban? These whiners need to get over themselves. Secondly, how does this reduce the reminders when pretty much everyone who is going to play this game is going to know that this white-washed "opposing force" IS really the Taliban since all the models, weapons, etc are all the same.

    3. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So instead of "think of the children!" we get "think of the soldiers' wives!".

      If they don't want to play the game they don't have to. Meanwhile, the rest of us [should be able to] make the decision for ourselves, like grownups.

    4. Re:Well that's stupid. by mweather · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So your position is that getting shot at in a video game by a bunch of guys in turbans isn't going to remind them of Afghanistan or cause stress unless they're named "Taliban"?

    5. Re:Well that's stupid. by countSudoku() · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then you would think, in a free society, that would be enough; not stocking it at the military version of Walmart. But, no, that's not enough. In an actual free society we would have been given the choice to either purchase the game or not, then play as the Taliban or not. The choice, the free choice, is now taken from us by whiny douchebags. Period.

      BREAKING NEWS: George Lucas has now decided to recall all Lucas Arts Star Wars themed games to patch them so you cannot play as the Empire.

      Same thing. If you don't like them, don't play as them, or buy the game you frickin sheeple!

      --
      This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
    6. Re:Well that's stupid. by digitalPhant0m · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Isn't the Freedom to put 'whatever characters you want in a video game' exactly what the 'soldiers in harms' way are trying to defend?

      Think about it. However infuriating it may be to the soldiers, families, friends and pundits to include Taliban in the game, like it or not, that's freedom.

    7. Re:Well that's stupid. by travdaddy · · Score: 4, Funny

      My grandfather died in WW2, could you please remove the Germans from all your future WW2 games as well? The Japanese, too.

      I think we should keep the Germans in the WW2 games, and my grandfather died in a concentration camp! He fell out of a guard tower.

      --
      Adidas To Bring Back Sneakernet
    8. Re:Well that's stupid. by DarthVain · · Score: 2, Funny

      They did. Its called "Enemy Territory: Quake Wars".

      Killing virtual Nazi's and Taliban are bad apparently but its OK to gib innocent aliens and monsters...

      Personally (as a Canadian) I loved the fact that in Counter Strike you could play the FLQ terrorist. I mean I don't care about the FLQ, but simply the fact that Canada is mentioned at all in a video game, and you can play that side, and the map is supposed to be in Canada, I thought was pretty cool.

      Otherwise I will be waiting for the video game of canoeing and collecting beaver pelts etc... which I don't think will be a very good game. That or a historical RTS game of the war of 1812, where inexplicably the USA always seems to win...

    9. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree with you completely, I'm simply pointing out the reasoning behind this. EA is not dismissing their freedom to put what they want in this game; there has been no government interference here. They are simply choosing to avoid offending people, which is also their right.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    10. Re:Well that's stupid. by mweather · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are people still burying dead from these conflicts.

      There are people buring dead on both sides, and innocents as well, yet they didn't feel the need to remove the Americans.

    11. Re:Well that's stupid. by HaZardman27 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nobody is forcing EA to take this out; they are simply choosing not to offend the people who have expressed their concerns.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    12. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For a lot of people however this is much much too soon.

      Then they neither have to buy or play the game. Why should the actual consumers of this product have to suffer through some stupid censorship because of a bunch of oversensitive babies? It is absolutely hilarious that people will use the military service of their dead love ones as a way to impose censorship on people.

    13. Re:Well that's stupid. by tsj5j · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You know what will get those soldiers out of harm's way? QUITTING THE WAR!

      Seriously, instead of pressuring EA to remove Taliban, these groups should divert their efforts to lobbying for a withdrawal.
      They're doing nothing but deceiving themselves by hiding/masking the truth...

    14. Re:Well that's stupid. by somersault · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They're also free to complain, and EA are free to take action if this negative PR is causing shops not to stock their latest game.

      Think about it. However infuriating it may be to you that you can't authentically pretend to be terrorists who hate your country, EA wants to make money.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    15. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nobody is forcing EA to take this out;

      You mean except for how that general was going to get the game banned from all EA game stores on military bases? Saying that is not trying to force them into taking out the name is like saying that being held up at knife point isn't forcing someone to do something they don't want.

      they are simply choosing not to offend the people who have expressed their concerns.

      You mean people who were never the target audience of the game and weren't going to be buying or playing it? Yes, it's great that they are bowing to a bunch of whiners at the expense of the actual customers.

    16. Re:Well that's stupid. by hedwards · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's a bullshit argument to begin with. PTSD is nasty because it's not the expected triggers that cause trouble, it's the non-obvious ones that do. And in cases like this it's largely pointless. Pretty much the entire game is one big trigger.

      Bullshit controversies like this just do more to make things tough for returning veterans as it carries the wrong message about the hardships coming back. It's not a two bit computer game that results in the suicides, it's everything, the lack of connection, the feelings about what one was involved in, both good and bad, and the difficulty of reintegrating.

      One video game is hardly going to be a make it or break it case for many vets. Perhaps if the people claiming to care about veterans affairs would actually put their energy into something useful, all that might change.

    17. Re:Well that's stupid. by somersault · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The game is now "ruined" for you because it says "opposing force" instead of "Taliban"?

      That sounds a little over-sensitive and weak minded to me.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    18. Re:Well that's stupid. by TheCarp · · Score: 4, Funny

      In other news, the teams in counter strike will no longer be known as the terrorists and the counter-terrorists. Instead, the weapons have been removed and replaced with paint ball guns, and the teams will be known as "accounting department" and "marketing department".

      Animations of soldiers dieing and hitting the ground will be replaced with characters raising their marker and walking off the field.

      -Steve

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    19. Re:Well that's stupid. by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 5, Funny

      My grandfather killed six Germans at Normandy. Unfortunately, this happened in 1967.

    20. Re:Well that's stupid. by Voulnet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The soldiers are fighting for your freedoms? That's funny; those who are trying to take your freedom live in the US, not Afghanistan.

    21. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      WW2 has long since ended. A major part of the controversy here is that the war is still happening

      Well the war on terror is still going strong and has no end in sight.

      We are at war with Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

    22. Re:Well that's stupid. by geminidomino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well duh. How many burned-out shells in Afghanistan have XBox 360s?

      Besides, who cares if we offend them. They're the *sinister chord* BAD GUYS! /me Removes tongue from cheek before the thickies with mod points show up

    23. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, it's the position of a bunch of whiners who are trying to use the deaths of soldiers as a way to censor others. It's extremely despicable.

    24. Re:Well that's stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      My brother died in a marketing accident, you insensitive clod!

    25. Re:Well that's stupid. by Americano · · Score: 2, Funny

      Stop ruining it for the rest of us who do want the content.

      "ruining it"? Game play has not changed one iota, regardless of what the "sides" are named. Would you refuse to buy the game if it were named "Silver Star" instead of "Medal of Honor"?

      Perspective. You lack it.

    26. Re:Well that's stupid. by couchslug · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Knowing G.I.s, they'd likely take turns playing Taliban while on actual deployment, since a shitload of G.I.s are avid gamers and have been since PCs were first available.

      I suspect (lacking polling data) that given the typical military mind-set, most G.I.s would see the censorship reflecting complete pussification.

      As for AAFES, they are at the mercy of every sensitive cunt who wants to turn their stores into a walled garden. Back in The Day, we could buy fap fodder like Penthouse on base. With the rise of Bible Thumpers and PC housecunts in the new corporate military, that went away.

      The hassle of dealing with frothers makes it easier to just cave to them on non-mission-related issues, and G.I.s don't need AAFES for anything but food and booze.

      I miss the days of the more isolated military when civilians left us the fuck alone, and our fun was our business. Booze and whores ARE fun when you are deployed to some foreign shithole, and none of that mattered outside the military for about two hundred years. Change is not always progress.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    27. Re:Well that's stupid. by ieatcookies · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While I think this over reaction is a sad fact of our times lately I have to admit that entertainment like this can lead to desensitization of an event that is current and problematic. Yes there are plenty of other examples of this, but that doesn't make it acceptable. This is not educational or enlightening, it's pure entertainment of a situation that is extremely serious for some, serious and relevant right now. I can easily see both sides of this argument.

    28. Re:Well that's stupid. by Americano · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your passionate proposal for protecting the freedoms and rights of homosexuals and racial minorities is laudable.

      Thought exercise: You realize that people in the service & their families are the overwhelming *minority* in the population, too, right? What makes it okay to say "Shut up whiners," to them, when we're routinely told that we can't use certain words and phrases because they'd offend other minorities on account of certain language being "hate speech"? Seems like you should extend your concern over offense to the minority of servicemembers & their families, too.

      If you value the rights and freedoms of minorities, that should extend to the sensitivities of all minorities, not just the ones you agree with. And especially so when the minority in question is the very people whose mission is to safeguard those freedoms you want everybody to have.

    29. Re:Well that's stupid. by IICV · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I like how this is almost exactly what Blizzard did early on in WOW's development. IIRC, As an anti-poopsocking measure, they would start giving you XP penalties as time went on; you'd start out earning 100% XP, but then if you played for long enough you would slowly get penalties until you were only earning 50% XP. You had to log off and wait a couple of hours to get back to earning 100% XP.

      Gamers were outraged. How dare you punish us for playing the game! etcetera.

      So what did Blizzard do? Well, whenever you started a fresh session, you'd have a 200% XP earned bonus! This would gradually wear off until you were only earning 100% XP. If you logged off and waited a few hours, you'd get the 200% XP bonus again!

      Gamers were pacified, because apparently the ones who really cared about this couldn't do math. Blizzard didn't actually make any changes, they just started calling the first part a 200% XP gain bonus, instead of calling the last part a 50% XP gain penalty.

      It's funny how stupid people are. It's still the Taliban, you're still only earning half XP after a few hours of play - they're just calling it something else so you'll stop bitching.

    30. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it's pure entertainment of a situation that is extremely serious for some

      Then they can choose to avoid the game. It's no different to how if you don't like a certain TV show that instead of trying to get it banned that you just *gasp* turn the channel and ignore it.

    31. Re:Well that's stupid. by h4rm0ny · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While true, your logic could equally be used to support removing the US troops from the game, renaming both groups Force A and Force B. Yet few seem to be clamoring for that.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    32. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, you have no right to talk about the suffering of people killed by the US military, since you don't have a loved one who is an Iraqi or Afghani civilian?

      I find that many of the family members of US military personnel make claims for exceptional treatment that they never extend to anyone else.

    33. Re:Well that's stupid. by Missing.Matter · · Score: 2, Funny

      As an anti-poopsocking measure

      I feel this term needs some clarification... and no, I won't google that.

    34. Re:Well that's stupid. by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's funny how stupid people are. It's still the Taliban, you're still only earning half XP after a few hours of play - they're just calling it something else so you'll stop bitching.

      That's the thing, the models in the game with their movements and voice acting etc are no more "Taliban" than the other side is actually the US Army. They are just little models, with some texturing applied, with a voice track selected, controlled by AI (or not). There's no reason to get angry about whatever they decide to name each side.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    35. Re:Well that's stupid. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You don't think tv shows are edited for censorship and content before being releaased to the public?

      Where did I say anything of the sort? Do you normally attempt to put words in people's mouths as an argument tactic? The point of my statement was that instead of trying to get things censored that *gasp* you just ignore it and don't watch or buy the piece of entertainment that you disagree with. I know, it's a really radical idea.

    36. Re:Well that's stupid. by Draek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How does your hypothetical children "finish the job"? either he leaves the other bully alive so he can take revenge another day, or he kills another children over some freaking sand.

      Wars are fought over clear objectives, because when they aren't, the only path to victory is wholesale genocide. Think about that for a minute.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    37. Re:Well that's stupid. by Draek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Everyone is part of some minority or another. People who went to the same school you did are a tiny minority in the sea of the US educational system, people who like the same flavor of ice cream are a minority among the greater universe of ice-cream lovers, and so on. Your ideology ultimately boils down to "do not offend anyone, ever". The problem being, of course, when your own attempts at being politically correct ends up offending others, as this thread shows.

      The reason society has determined 'hate speech' to be wrong isn't because they're a minority, but rather because we've deemed it wrong to offend others on those grounds. Saying "death to all heterosexuals!" is still wrong in spite of being the majority, but you're still free to say I'm a moron for liking strawberry ice-cream over chocolate, and I'm still free to say you're a moron for trampling over Freedom of Speech just because some guys signed up to go kill some Iraquis and ended up getting shot themselves instead.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    38. Re:Well that's stupid. by dave420 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They do when they blow something up. Oh, wait, is that why there's terrorism?

    39. Re:Well that's stupid. by gregrah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then they can choose to avoid the game.

      Or they also have the right to protest - which is what they did. If EA really wanted to press the issue, I am sure that there is very little that anyone could have done to legally require them to alter or halt production of the game.

      In EA's own words: the voice of friends and families of fallen soldiers "is a very important voice to the Medal of Honor team". Maybe this is true, and the developers had a change of heart - something which is perfectly within their right to do. Perhaps more likely is that they were worried about the negative publicity and decided that this token gesture might lead to more games being sold - another decision that EA has the right to make.

      My point is this: having the right to say or do something does not make it a good idea to do it. Even if you feel that you are correct and the opposition is overreacting - sometimes it's in your own best interest to avoid upsetting other people.

      I can understand why some people would be upset about this game. I can understand why EA would make the decision that they did. The only thing I can't understand is why you would be upset at the sight of two opposing parties expressing their freedom of speech, and making concessions to the other party where appropriate.

    40. Re:Well that's stupid. by kdemetter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Even if you feel that you are correct and the opposition is overreacting - sometimes it's in your own best interest to avoid upsetting other people. "

      That is how you can turn a democracy into a dictatorship.

      It's completely like that here in Europe : if you protest something the EU doesn't like , they will make it very clear you should "avoid upsetting people , aka shut up " .
      Just look at the EU constitution/Lisbon treaty : people spoke up against them , the EU basically told them to shut up , and they just carried on with implementing it , as if nothing happened.

      Granted , it's a bit far fetched for a game , but it's the same idea : EA is reacting out of fear , not because they care so much ( then they wouldn't have put it in there in the first place ) .

  2. So now you can play as an American... by Gordonjcp · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... and for extra realism you get to shoot at British, Canadian, Danish and other "allied" troops. Ultra-realistic!

  3. !Surprising by cosm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There have been worse things in video-games. Postal 2 anyone?

    If EA had statistical evidence that they would've lost revenue through lawsuits, civil cases, and bad word-of-mouth by releasing the game with "Taliban", then perhaps this was a smart business decision. But if they are simply "bowing" if you will, well, that is lame.

    I am not for the Taliban at all, I am just saying bowing to the complainers only reinforces their behavior.

    --
    'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
    1. Re:!Surprising by Midnight's+Shadow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Normally I'd agree with your position but here I think it is a bit tricky. By putting them in the game you are giving the Taliban legitimacy which a large amount of the US population would not approve of. You could also cause problems with the fanatical Muslim population because of the link the Taliban has with Islam. And lets face it the radical Muslims don't fuck around when showing their displeasure. All and all I think it was a good business strategy on EA's part to avoid that whole kettle of fish and come across that the change was inspired respect for the US armed forces. This minor controversy will also help generate hype and knowledge of the game. A win for EA on all fronts.

      Well unless the radical Muslims take offense at not being included in the game...

      --
      "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh. " -Voltaire
    2. Re:!Surprising by jd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The large amount of US population has been happy to accept the aid of insurgent groups (the various resistance groups in Occupied Europe, for example) when it has been convenient. Indeed, the US was largely liberated from British rule by an insurgency. Unofficial groups that do not operate under the command of a State have existed throughout history and have been utilized by every nation on Earth. Until the Iraqi "Awakening Councils" were accepted by the government there, they too were unofficial militia operating outside of any central command structure. Don't recall hearing too many oppose them in the US.

      The reason the Taliban aren't legitimate in the eyes of the US is that the US is fighting them. Everything else is a contrived excuse.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  4. Re:Taliban Playable? by snowraver1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What is so wrong with it? It's a fact. Americans and the Taliban and fighting. Why hide the truth? Are we supposed to just pretend that Americans and the Taliban are "Super Best Friends"? I know, let's just ignore everything.

    --
    Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
  5. that doesn't make sense by Punto · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm sick of people pretending the war has only one side. Where are the families of the dead Taliban soldiers, who are logically just as offended by the ability to play as a US soldier? don't they have a "voice" too? or it it ok to disrespect people as long as you're on the right side?

    --

    --
    Stay tuned for some shock and awe coming right up after this messages!

  6. In other news... by alexo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The popular children's game has now been renamed to "cops and opposing forces"

    1. Re:In other news... by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This PC shit is fer the birds.

      Back in my day, if you offended someone, you tell them it wasn't personal and move on. Now we have both extremes.... People going out of their way to personally offend others, and people who are offended by simple shapes.

      Know this...

      It will never end.

      --
      How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
    2. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I find that generalization offensive.

  7. Re:Taliban Playable? by characterZer0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No. We are supposed to dehumanize the Taliban and make sure nobody thinks from their perspective, so we can continue to kill them with no twinge of guilt.

    --
    Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
  8. Power of a word? by Dotren · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seems to me too many people give too much power to a simple word. Essentially that's what we're doing here right? Gameplay remains unchanged, we're just changing the name of the other team. So is it because we fear the Taliban? Should we start calling them "The opposing force that must not be named"?

  9. Re:Good. by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think you mean a bad example of a corporation being a pussy in face of a bunch of whiners? The fact of the matter is that you are still playing as the Taliban and all the models are exactly the same. All this is is a white-washing of the name.

  10. Wow by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What a bunch of weak-minded idiots. If a few people who can't handle a video game with content that they don't like that they don't even have to buy complain about said content, they remove it. Those people have just ruined it for anyone who actually wanted that content, as it was originally planned to be in the game. But, no, people who wouldn't buy the game anyway get their way. Absolutely pathetic. I'm sick and tired of this blatant censorship (even if it wasn't technically forced on them). I already had zero respect for EA and any company like them, but this is insane. Might as well ban everything that someone takes offense to!

    --
    Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
  11. This took a whopping 3 seconds to do. by jonescb · · Score: 2, Informative

    sed s/Taliban/GenericTerrorists/g
    So all these politically correct people will be appeased, but nothing of substance will have changed.

  12. Re:Taliban Playable? by xaxa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are the Americans (?) still referred to as such? In the interest of fairness, I think they should be called the "invading force".

  13. Re:Good. by JonySuede · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't feel that suppressing an artistic representation of a current war because of a fear of public backlash is the right thing to do. True that for the shareholder EA this is certainly the most responsible approach, but with regards to the principle behind the US constitution and the civic liberties in general, I feel that this is totally irresponsible.

    --
    Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
  14. Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by jd · · Score: 5, Insightful
    • In real wars, people die. It is expected. All who go into a warzone do so in the knowledge that they may not return. How do you sacrifice that which you have already surrendered for King/Queen/President/Fanatic (delete according to nation) and Country?
    • Should the Americans get their name removed? There will be friends and family of the Taliban too. If this were truly about honoring the fallen, why be selective?
    • Should they retroactively delete the names of nations for World War 2 games? All of those nations had people die too, and friends and family of those fallen are still alive today.

    Of course they shouldn't. The reality is that wargames depict a historical context and history doesn't change to suit the likes of one group or another. There is only one history, the events that took place.

    Further, we learn from history that it is dangerous to make an enemy faceless. Doing so is the number one cause of wartime atrocities. What these pressure groups have basically said is that it is more important to hide the reality of the situation than it is to keep Americans aware that they are fighting against people with lives and beliefs of their own. This is a dangerous attitude to have.

    I cannot blame a company for eventually caving under pressure, especially one as small as this. But frankly this whitewashing of history is disturbing and historically the consequences of such acts have never been good. This is extremely bad juju.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by jd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The march through Russia will doubtless have been filled with heroic deeds, not least because of the extreme conditions they faced. Rommel, the commander of the German's African forces, performed many acts of heroism and is often held in high regard by military historians. Rudolph Hess is an interesting figure, not least because he managed to be reviled AND held as a hero by both sides simultaneously. That's no small achievement. A great uncle of mine who helped hold off the German forces whilst the rest of the allies escaped at Dunkirk maintained a diary of the retreat and then of his time as a POW. His description of the German forces shows a full range of people, ranging from the compassionate to the psychotic. His description is a far, far cry from what you'll see in any traditional history book.

      Not all history is written by the victors. The Bayoux Tapestry, for example, was produced by the Saxons and depicts the Saxon view of the Battle of Hastings, not the Norman perspective.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    2. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by jd · · Score: 2, Informative

      The difference between history and propaganda is that history is what actually happened, whereas propaganda is what people want to have happened. It is important not to confuse the two. History is rarely taught, because what actually happened is rarely known.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    3. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by morari · · Score: 2

      That's just as true for the present though. Most people don't really know what's happening now either. Hindsight doesn't seem to make these matters any clearer in the face of propaganda.

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    4. Re:Errr... this is a wargame, folks! by jd · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You are correct, which is why it is all the more important for teachers of subjects such as histories or the humanities clearly distinguish between the two. It is by confusing the objective with the subjective that modern reporters excuse their lack of objectivity by claiming that it's all really subjective anyway. A gun was fired or it wasn't, a bridge was crossed or it wasn't, a battle was fought or it wasn't. These things may be subjectively interpreted, but their objective reality (or lack thereof) is independent of that interpretation.

      It is fair enough that some things are not knowable - because records were destroyed, or because there was a concerted effort to conceal that information permanently - but there the fact that is known is that the historical data for a definitive answer does not exist. So there is still a definite split between objective facts and subjective views. In most real-world cases, there will be additional facts - the archaeological facts on the ground. These are "facts" in the sense of object A was found at location B with a context of C and scientific tests reveal D. Because the archaeological record can be tampered with, there is nothing that definitely links object A to a specific event or a specific person. Interpretation of such a record is largely subjective.

      Actually, we can refine this two-way split a little further into a three-way split: The facts (insofar as they can be objectively known), the subjective views, and the deductive reasoning/critical thinking that allows you to produce "derivative facts" ("facts" for which no direct evidence exists but which explains both the facts that do exist AND the subjective views as far as can be reasonably done). Derivative facts are not truly objective (as different people may come to different conclusions) but neither are they truly subjective (assuming that the method used is based on the scientific method and has been shown to produce accurate conclusions when tested).

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  15. the terrorists have won. by asiansteev · · Score: 2

    And with that, the terrorists have truly won. Luckily the next round starts in 30... 29... 28...

  16. EA = pussies. by Trip6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    'nuff said.

    --
    I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
  17. Re:Ugh. by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What gets me is that there's more public outcry over the name of a team in a game than there is over an actual war. If these people their voices heard by the President and their representatives instead of a video game maker, they might actually save some lives.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  18. Because a rose by any other name by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 2, Funny

    is sometimes a dandelion

    --
    How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
  19. How badly do you want to play the Taliban? by dave562 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've seen a lot of comments on here that are derogatory towards EA and the families of soliders who have voiced their opposition to EA's decision. I agree that EA made a bad call by white washing the reality of the conflict. One of the fundamental cornerstones of our society seems to be freedom of choice. As Americans, we want the ability to do whatever we feel like doing, no matter how insensitive or offensive to others it might be. As others have said many times before, freedom is not free. That leads me to my question... how badly do all of you people whining about not being able to play the Taliban, want to play the Taliban?

    Will you gather signatures and go on the record saying that you want to do it? Will you lobby and protest and make your voices heard? Are you so strong in your convictions that EA has made a bad decision that you will NOT buy the game in order to voice your dissatisfaction?

    If there is one thing I've learned about being American it is that those who are willing to make the biggest stink about something usually get their way. So how strong are your convictions? Are you going to do anything about it, or are you just going to whine on Slashdot?

  20. Re:Good. by Americano · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'll tell you what then - whenever you see and hear "Opposition Forces" in all the game text and audio, shout at the television: "OH NOES ITS TEH TALIBANZ IN MUH TEEVEEZ!"

    Maybe that'll make you feel better.

  21. Re:Ugh. by morari · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Thanks EA, for letting the terrorists have win. :(

    --
    "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
  22. So Don't Buy It by ForgedArtificer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So, uh, hey...

    If you don't like this decision, protest the same way the anti-Taliban crew did: by refusing to buy the game.

    Of course, it's doubtful anyone will actually care so much about this as not to buy it. Two things about gamers - gamers love to whine and blow things out of proportion, and gamers always cave because they would rather accept what they are being told to accept than not have the game.

    Look at WoW players. Every single day, it's whine whine whine, but it's never quit, quit, quit. This is no different.

    Trust me. If you want to protest this decision, do it the same way the PC censorship crowd did - with your wallet - and let EA know why you aren't buying. Obviously, they listen to that sort of feedback.

    --
    The right to offend is central to the right to free speech.
  23. arrogance by spleen_blender · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "earned the right to be listened to"

    Excuse me? Fuck you, sir. I'm a retired Marine but I'm so goddamn sick of people hoisting up military service as if it makes you a super-citizen or gives you any superior insight.

    They treat you with utter respect, these flag waving suit wearing pricks, until it comes down to them having to keep their word on medical care and other promised benefits.