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Stuxnet Analysis Backs Iran-Israel Connection

Trailrunner7 writes "Liam O'Murchu of Symantec, speaking at the Virus Bulletin Conference, provided the first detailed public analysis of the worm's inner workings to an audience of some of the world's top computer virus experts. O'Murchu described a sophisticated and highly targeted virus and demonstrated a proof of concept exploit that showed how the virus could cause machines using infected PLCs to run out of control. Though most of the conversation about Stuxnet is still based on conjecture, O'Murchu said that Symantec's analysis of Stuxnet's code for manipulating PLCs on industrial control systems by Siemens backs up both the speculation that Iran was the intended target and that Israel was the possible source of the virus. O'Murchu noted that researchers had uncovered the reference to an obscure date in the worm's code, May 9, 1979, which, he noted, was the date on which a prominent Iranian Jew, Habib Elghanian, was executed by the new Islamic government shortly after the revolution. Anti-virus experts said O'Murchu's hypothesis about the origins of Stuxnet were plausible, though some continue to wonder how the authors of such a sophisticated piece of malware allowed it to break into the wild and attract attention." Symantec has also issued a lengthy and detailed dossier on Stuxnet (PDF).

307 comments

  1. Wait a minute. by Moryath · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So the entire idea of the "Israel created this to attack Iran" idea is based on finding the date May 9, 1979 hidden in the code - and that because it's the first day the current theocratic asshats running Iran beheaded the first Jew of their despotic regime? Really?

    This is like playing Nostradamus. Pluck something vague, go hunting, and see what you can say later to claim you "predicted it." For instance, in Eastern bloc countries, May 9 1945 is "Victory Day." I'm sure some prominent politician somewhere in there also died on May 9, 1979. A google search for that date came back with 196,000 results just on the precise phrase "May 9, 1979".

    Ridiculous.

    1. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So the entire idea of the "Israel created this to attack Iran" idea is based on finding the date May 9, 1979 hidden in the code

      No, the idea is based on Israel having the motivation, the capability, and the demonstrated willingness to do things like this. (Not saying that it's true that the thing came from Israel *or* targeted Iran, mind you.)

    2. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is exactly what I would expect an agent of the Israeli government to say to throw people off the trail...

    3. Re:Wait a minute. by Moryath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Dozens of regimes have the motivation, capability and demonstrated willingness to do things like this.

      Hell, thousands of hackers across the world have the motivation, capability, and demonstrated willingness to do things like this. And that's not even before we get to the professional virus-writers that are tied in with outfits like yakuza and russian mafia gangs these days operating various blackmail/extortion gambits.

      It sounds more like the "idea" is based on someone who has some grudge against Israel and found a convenient outlet for it, just like all the other "waah the jews did it" conspiracy theories that always sprout up - including the dork who posted a "jews also did wtc" in the first post (thankfully probably trollmarked down to -1 by now) to this article.

    4. Re:Wait a minute. by EdZ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So the entire idea of the "Israel created this to attack Iran" idea is based on finding the date May 9, 1979 hidden in the code

      That, and the worm being targeted at Iranian PLCs. It's an incredibly sophisticated and specific attack with little avenue for direct profit, so it's unlikely to be either an extortion attempt by a criminal organisation or something produced by a blackhat hobbyist. That makes a government being behind it likely. Israel definitely has motive and means to be behind the worm.

      some continue to wonder how the authors of such a sophisticated piece of malware allowed it to break into the wild and attract attention.

      It took quite a while before researchers realised the payload was intended to mess with one specific brand of PLCs (they're hardly part of a standard honeypot), maybe the intent was to hide it in plain sight it as 'just another botnet'.

    5. Re:Wait a minute. by Patch86 · · Score: 5, Funny

      So are we claiming that development on Stuxnet started on 9/5/1979 in reaction to this execution? (Did Siemans even make industrial control computers in the 70s?) Or are we claiming that the "authors of such a sophisticated piece of malware" decided to plant a trail of clues, like some sort of cartoon villains?

      They would have got away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling Symantec engineers.

    6. Re:Wait a minute. by ACS+Solver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, that doesn't seem like good evidence at all. Mind you, I do consider it very likely that Israel is behind this. Israel has both the motivation and the capability to launch such an electronic attack at Iran. But as far as actual evidence goes, I'd like to see something more concrete. Assuming that the code really refers to the date and that it's not just a mistaken interpretation of a pointer to 0x00090579, there's still a lot of stuff that happened on that particular day.

    7. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Also, the creators of the virus called it Myrtus, which is another name for Esther. Esther was the Jewish wife of a Persian king. One of the kings lieutenants hatched a plan to destroy the Jewish people and Esther convinced the king to give permission to fight back. The story is vaguely appropriate.

      It was either created by Israeli interests or made to look like it.

    8. Re:Wait a minute. by dgatwood · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd guess the odds are at least as good that it's the author's birthday.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    9. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      This is exactly what I would expect an agent of the Israeli government to say to throw people off the trail...

      That's exactly what I would expect a pedophile terrorist puppy-kicker to say.

    10. Re:Wait a minute. by Moryath · · Score: 0

      Presuming the author was born in 1979 you have a 1 in 365 chance... I like those odds!

    11. Re:Wait a minute. by polle404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      funny, yesterday it was an obscure bible reference that supposedly proved Israeli mischief
      http://gizmodo.com/5652032/the-secret-code-inside-the-supervirus-attacking-iran-nuclear-power

      Sounds like someone has found someone to blame, and are desperately searching for "evidence" to back it up

      --

      ~men are from earth. women are from earth. deal with it.~
    12. Re:Wait a minute. by Moryath · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hey but wait! Today is October 1st that they "discovered" the May 9th reference. That's the day Alexander the Great defeated Darius III of Persia! That PROVES it was an attack against Iran, because Iran is Persia!

      October 1 is also the day Germany annexed the Sudetenland... and the day the USS Grouper torpedoed the Lisbon Maru mistakenly... and the day the Israeli Air Force bombed the PLO headquarters in Tunis (too bad they didn't get Arafat back then!).

      And this is the problem of trying to follow "date code" clues. Assuming you didn't mistake a hexadecimal pointer for a datecode, you still generally have a 1/365 chance (ostensibly 1/366 for leap years, but for some reason February 29th just seems to be a relatively boring day anyways) of hitting some coincidental match anyways.

    13. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which most likely throws out the US as a source of it, since we're a bit too cozy with the Israelis to want to direct that sort of attention at them.

      Chinese or Russian Intelligence could certainly have the access. On the other hand both have had recent captures regarding industrial espionage, so having the informationt to specifically target these parts seems like a possible stretch.

    14. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      This is exactly what I would expect an agent of the Israeli government to say to throw people off the trail...

      Careful. What if that's what they want you to think?

    15. Re:Wait a minute. by copponex · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ridiculous.

      What's more ridiculous is people who think the State of Israel can do no wrong, or that Israeli interests are the same thing as American interests.

      The virus was targeted towards Iranian PLCs. The date is supporting evidence of that, but may be a coincidence anyway.

      What's not a coincidence is that Israel has been threatening to attack Iran, but still refuses to sign the Non Proliferation Treaty as Iran has and subject themselves to inspections. Israel doesn't want to play by anyone's rules but their own, and creating this virus falls well within the threats they have made over the past five years.

    16. Re:Wait a minute. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Dozens of regimes have the motivation, capability and demonstrated willingness to do things like this.

      What would you say are the top five "regimes" that you believe have the "motivation, capability and demonstrated willingness" to perform a cyber-attack like this on Iran?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    17. Re:Wait a minute. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Israel definitely has motive and means to be behind the worm.

      You better be careful. Rick Sanchez just said that Jews control all the ISPs and you might have your Internet connecti...{NO CARRIER}

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    18. Re:Wait a minute. by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      So the entire idea of the "Israel created this to attack Iran" idea is based on finding the date May 9, 1979 hidden in the code - and that because it's the first day the current theocratic asshats running Iran beheaded the first Jew of their despotic regime? Really?

      No, from TFA, there are several bases for that:
      1) Israel having the motive in its stated interests,
      2) The facilities affected in Iran,
      3) The sophistication of the code and Israel's capacity in that regard,
      4) Various reference in the code and filenames, including both the date you mention and a reference to Myrtus.

    19. Re:Wait a minute. by Moryath · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You're still operating under the faulty assumption it's against Iran.

      Who else does Iran sell these PLC's to?

    20. Re:Wait a minute. by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 0, Troll

      Who has "motivation, capability and demonstrated willingness", US, EU and Israel as state actors.

      Russian Jews/Russian Mafia, Saudi/UAE/Qatar outsourcing for the technology to Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistanis or the PRC (Saudi Arabia has a long history of high end weapons purchases from the PRC, perhaps including some atomic warheads).

      But, of course Israel did it, and you don't need crazy cracker crumb clues.

    21. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's an incredibly sophisticated and specific attack with little avenue for direct profit,

      Yes, because the report by a company who sells software that attempts to prevent this says so.

      so it's unlikely to be either an extortion attempt by a criminal organisation or something produced by a blackhat hobbyist.

      Just because you couldn't think of a way of profiting doesn't mean other didn't.

      That makes a government being behind it likely. Israel definitely has motive and means to be behind the worm.

      So did a lot of other people. With the malware being seen lately it seems quite obvious to me that a hell of a lot of people
      have the resources and are capable of creating some very sophisticated and nasty software.

      Heres a few other possibilities that are just as likely as the findings in a biased report...

      It was a demonstration of a piece of attack software. The target being chosen to demonstrate their ability to hide and attack specific
      systems.
      It was written by one of the 'security' companies to sell protection software.
      It was created by the US/Chinese/UK/Chinese/Finnish government at a way to escalate tension so they can invade or sell pizzas.

    22. Re:Wait a minute. by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Iran has been threatening Israel since 1979 and has been attacking Israel and Israelis since 1982. Hell Hezbollah is backed, funded and armed by Iran.

      I caught one of Hezbollah's gifts to Israel in 1994 when a 122mm rocket exploded in the north of Israel, so I'm really getting a kick out of your trying to paint everything as Israel's fault.

    23. Re:Wait a minute. by The+Ultimate+Fartkno · · Score: 5, Funny

      Now that's just being anti-Symantec.

      (alt: anti-Siemantic. You pick.)

    24. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meh, who knows what the US wants to do? And heck, I wouldn't put it past Israeli intelligence to intentionally leave these fingerprints in the virus so people would speculate about who set them up.

    25. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, i.e. if it said "Copyright (C) Government of Israel Mossad Branch" we would directly say, its not Israel because we assume they would never do such a thing. So whenever Israel wants to proof they didn't do it, they would just put in obvious things such as "dedications to jews who died horrible" and then they could point it out and say they didn't do it.

    26. Re:Wait a minute. by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Nooo, I'd say the belief is more based on the Mossad having a history of doing whatever it takes, from using letter bombs to poisoned chocolate, their having gone after a middle eastern reactor in the past (Iraq) and that the only other group that would most likely have the means (the US right wing) is currently not in command and besides the USA is ass deep in two wars and would therefor likely not try to stir up the hornet's nest.

      So I'd say that while trying to claim everything is the work of Zionists is indeed paranoid, history shows when it comes to Mossad they have NO problem playing dirty and as long as the target was hit would in all likelihood see any other infections as collateral damage.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    27. Re:Wait a minute. by alexo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Also, the creators of the virus called it Myrtus, which is another name for Esther. Esther was the Jewish wife of a Persian king. One of the kings lieutenants hatched a plan to destroy the Jewish people and Esther convinced the king to give permission to fight back. The story is vaguely appropriate.

      Damn, people, you're beginning to sound like the whackos that find "biblical references" that "predict" everything that happened since (in hindsight, of course).

      If you believe that Israel is behind the attack, fine -- at this point it is as plausible an assumption as any -- but stop getting all over yourselves in ridiculous attempts to "prove" it.

      Consider this:

      1. State actors do not put "easter eggs" into munitions. If a state wants it to be known that they are behind such an action, it will either claim responsibility or will leak the information while officially refusing to comment. If a foreign intelligence programmer decides to get "creative", they will be dealt with harshly.

      2. Israelis speak Hebrew. The name Esther is written and pronounced as ESTER (transliteration, the 'E' is short, like in 'merry'). *Nobody* uses the word "Myrtus". Also see #1 above.

    28. Re:Wait a minute. by JumpDrive · · Score: 1

      They also found the word "Myrtus" in the code which refers to the book of Esther , which is part of an old Testament tale in which the Jews pre-empt a Persian plot to destroy them.

      New York Times

      I still don't think it is enough to point the finger at Isreal though. It could very well be that someone put these references in the code to get people looking in a different direction or to actually see if they could stir up a fight between Iran and Isreal.

    29. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Russian Jews/Russian Mafia" -- I am confused -- are these, like, the same thing in your world? A homogeneous body of Russian Jews that are also the Mafia?

      Also, PRC - as in People's Republic of China - has sold nukes to Saudi Arabia? Really?

      Do you know any Greys and Reptilians too?

    30. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This just in: 85% of conspiracy theorists are actually CIA spooks spreading the seeds of intentionally wacko theories in order to raise doubts about the discoveries of other conspiracy theorists. 12% of conspiracy theorists are FBI plants instigating wackier theories to discredit the theories of the CIA spooks, as 83% of the spook "wacko" theories are incidentally correct. About 2% of conspiracy theorists are actually Secret Service agents intentionally spreading misinformation to discredit the CIA and FBI based theories. 1% of conspiracy theorists belong to the information guild of the illuminati; They spread truths through the rest of the conspiracy theory community in order that the population in general becomes convinced that the truths are actually false by association. Now THAT's bureaucracy for ya.

    31. Re:Wait a minute. by siddesu · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hehe, mod parent up.

      The "EU" as a "state actor" is rich. If there is anything that is farther from a "state actor" in the world today (excluding maybe the UN), it is the EU. They can't make a decision on how to tie their collective shoes together, much less conspire to attack a foreign country.

      Look at the EU's "common position" on the Iran sanction proposals for the spine, resolution, unity and swift action the "state actor" has...

    32. Re:Wait a minute. by gateur · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Oh please, of course Israel did it. Israel is the most despicable terrorist state in the world. The pinpricks the Palestinians commit against Israel are trivial compared to the murderous rampages of the IDF. They have no intention of stopping until they've slaughtered every Arab baby in the world. The moral powers of the world must soon choose to stop the heinous aggression or wait until Israel decides it wants Europe too.

    33. Re:Wait a minute. by lgw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I do consider it very likely that Israel is behind this. Israel has both the motivation and the capability to launch such an electronic attack at Iran.

      Israel has the motivation and capability to launch a real attack at Iran! You know, with bombs dropped from planes and nuclear weapons launched from submarines. Not just some dorkiness that is only news for nerds. Could this be some competent Black Hat who lives in Israel and dislikes Iran? Sure, I can believe that - it's as likely as any other country. But why would a government screw around with something this lame, especially leaving clues behind? That makes as much sense as the WTC conspiracies.

      Please tell me /.ers don't fall for this crap idea that the fact that the code is well-written is evidence of government involvement in writing the code. Really? That makes sense to someone who writes code?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    34. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He wasn't painting the situation as being all Israel's fault. He's just sick as hell of how Israel is often painted as a victim in the whole incident when they have been acting as a bully the whole time. No side is right here... not Israel, not Iran, not supporters of either nation, and not even those who intentionally choose not to pick sides.

    35. Re:Wait a minute. by kent_eh · · Score: 1

      You're still operating under the faulty assumption it's against Iran.

      Who else does Iran sell these PLC's to?

      Don't you mean "who else uses these Siemens PLCs"?

      I'm interested in hearing how the worm targeted PLCs in one specific country? Generally PLCs are fairly simple devices that aren't location aware.

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    36. Re:Wait a minute. by dmesg0 · · Score: 1

      The writers of the worm must be laughing at the long and baseless chain that connected the word "myrtus" (plant name) to queen Esther. Only journalists could come up with something like that. I'm quite sure that with proper motivation they would find a very convincing logic chain between b:\ in the path name and genital warts of the Zimbabwean president.

      BTW, what kind of path starts with "b:\"?

    37. Re:Wait a minute. by soundguy · · Score: 1

      And it's just as likely to be a false-flag operation by Iran itself in order to erode world support for Israel.

      --
      Nothing worthwhile ever happens before noon
    38. Re:Wait a minute. by unitron · · Score: 1

      What he really posted was "first 'they did wtc too' " (as in "we're talking about Jews so expect a bunch of 'they did the wtc' remarks"), and, due in part to the lack of ellipses afer the word "first", the moderators failed to detect the humor.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    39. Re:Wait a minute. by unitron · · Score: 4, Informative

      Who else does Iran sell these PLC's to?

      Iran doesn't make and sell them, Siemens does.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    40. Re:Wait a minute. by Moryath · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      They have no intention of stopping until they've slaughtered every Arab baby in the world.

      You do realize, simply by the weight of numbers, how absolutely batshit insane you sound?

    41. Re:Wait a minute. by Maltheus · · Score: 1

      Oh give me a break. Israel has the biggest hard on for Iran, of course it was them. They've been hyper little kids, jumping up and down on the couch for years now yelling, IRAN, IRAN, IRAN more than Guiliani refers to 9/11. I suppose it's possible it was the US. But really, six in one hand, half a dozen in another. The rest of the world simply doesn't give a shit about Iran.

    42. Re:Wait a minute. by retchdog · · Score: 1

      No, no, no. As was explained to me in the predecessor of this article, it would be impossible for independent hackers to do this because it's "too Hollywood." They would absolutely need the magical empowering guidance of a state intelligence agency, and at that point of course Israel is the obvious suspect. Duh.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    43. Re:Wait a minute. by Cylix · · Score: 1

      Actually with multiple software engineers we can employ the birthday paradox.

      The guestimates are somewhere between six and ten developers were used to bring this to fruition. With those base numbers we can further guestimate there is between a 4 and 12 percent chance that one of the developers had the same birthday as that date.

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    44. Re:Wait a minute. by DrugCheese · · Score: 1

      Organized crime hacking is based around generating revenue. How does this gain the yakuza or russian mafia any money? The suspects are isreal or the US, the facts of it continue to point towards them. Get over it.

      --
      *DrugCheese rants*
    45. Re:Wait a minute. by dr2chase · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah, we're pretty much in "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line" territory here. My money is on the Gilderians.

    46. Re:Wait a minute. by Moryath · · Score: 1

      It makes a big-ass scare for a German company (Siemens) that their PLC's may not be safe to purchase.

      Yakuza and Russian Mafia have their hands in certain competing manufacturing companies, certainly...

    47. Re:Wait a minute. by dr2chase · · Score: 1
      It could be anyone who thinks that a well-targeted worm is a much less nasty weapon than a serious bombing attack on Iran's nuclear facilities. That would implicate virtually everyone who has the ability to launch such a worm.

      You have to keep things in perspective. This is a really nasty worm, but by battlefield standards, it's pretty benign. As far as we know, nobody has even been injured.

    48. Re:Wait a minute. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      I think it should be said, these PLC's could have been made by anyone, anywhere. Someone could just as easily have targeted any other brand of PLC - Siemens chips were targeted BECAUSE Iran's nuclear program relies on them. If the critical chips came from Japan, Korea, or any other place on earth, then THOSE CHIPS would have been targeted. At this point, I don't think Siemens chips are any more or less susceptible to attack than any other chip in the world.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    49. Re:Wait a minute. by Moryath · · Score: 0, Troll

      Or it could be a disgruntled Siemens employee or two.

      Or it could be a dishonest competitor with connections to organized crime hiring their programmers for some dirty "sabotage" work - just think if every Siemens controller started going wonky, what companies that make competing PLC's stand to gain?

      The reality is, conjecturing "Israel rawr" is the function of a bunch of people with previous axes to grind, not based on anything remotely substantial in terms of evidence. Someone else pointed out above that if we run calculations based on the idea of a team of 6-8 programmers, the likelihood of "May 9 1979" being just one of the programmers' birthday is pretty substantial.

    50. Re:Wait a minute. by dunng808 · · Score: 1

      Someone's been reading The Illuminatus! Trilogy.

      --

      Gary Dunn
      Open Slate Project

    51. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, but the decision to close the cyber-attack gap was probably taken some time before that, and the source license was finalized on that date. And the license requires that "this text is copied verbatim", so you have it in all source.

    52. Re:Wait a minute. by Moryath · · Score: 1, Informative

      Siemens chips were targeted BECAUSE Iran's nuclear program relies on them.

      Or, Siemens chips are used all over the fucking planet, and someone with a grudge/competition motive against Siemens targeted them simply because they were Siemens.

      You're starting from your bias and trying to justify your conclusion later. It doesn't work.

    53. Re:Wait a minute. by demonlapin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So the Jews are motivated, capable, willing, and utter fucking idiots who reveal everything in easter eggs in the program. It's like dealing with Bush's duller critics all over again - either the Jews are scheming, vicious bastards, or they're just total fucking morons. But you have to choose one of those and stand by it.

    54. Re:Wait a minute. by Cylix · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is plenty of reading material on the topic and I would specifically site the analysis released a few days ago. However, to me the largest factor involved is the three hop maximum infection fuse. This would indicate the deployment had a very specific location based target in mind. I have not paid particular attention to the PLC design portion, but I have mostly heard second hand the PLC logic it targeted resembled Irans configurations.

      However, don't dare let me be the only source of information and flip through the available material.

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    55. Re:Wait a minute. by Cylix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even more reason why the clues are most likely planted.

      Very soon we will find an ASCII star of david planted in one of the binaries.

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    56. Re:Wait a minute. by Nimey · · Score: 1

      To go off on a tangent:

      I'm astonished that we've never threatened complete (or at least substantial) withdrawal of foreign aid if they don't stop this crap with the settlements, given that we keep attempting to keep the peace process towards a two-state solution.

      That would appear to me the best way to get their attention.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    57. Re:Wait a minute. by dunng808 · · Score: 1

      "Please insert disk for drive B and press any key to continue."

      Unless of course you have the luxury of two floppy disk drives.

      Actually, b:\ looks like a dyslexic smiley.

      --

      Gary Dunn
      Open Slate Project

    58. Re:Wait a minute. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Oddly, though, every article that I've read regarding stuxnet seems to indicate that it is targeted on Iran and Iran's nuclear development. If I'm biased, it's because people in the know seem to believe that Iran is the target. Do you have examples of industries being brought to a halt OUTSIDE Iran? It actually seems reasonable to me to believe that Iran's nuclear program is the real target, unless we start hearing of other industries in other locations suffering.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    59. Re:Wait a minute. by kestasjk · · Score: 1

      It also has a reference to an East Mediterranean plant called Myrtus, which was the name of the project and also the name of someone who "does noble deeds but does not have much knowledge of the Torah."

      You have to take conjecture and clues for what they are, but it does seem plausible. I can understand people being skeptical but then again I would have been skeptical something like this virus could exist outside a Tom Clancy novel..

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    60. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That one person is spending so much effort trying to vocally argue against Israel's involvement is rather strange, until you realize that Moryath is Jewish.

    61. Re:Wait a minute. by kestasjk · · Score: 1

      What's more ridiculous is people who think the State of Israel can do no wrong, or that Israeli interests are the same thing as American interests.

      That is indeed ridiculous, but in all fairness no-one has suggested or implied it.

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    62. Re:Wait a minute. by Dthief · · Score: 3, Funny

      You're starting from your bias and trying to justify your conclusion later. It doesn't work.

      Works 100% of the time for me.....which is based on my bias against you being right, thus further supporting my stance.

      --
      www.RacquetUp.org - Helping Detroit Youth
    63. Re:Wait a minute. by Dthief · · Score: 1

      note to self: buy stock in US/PRC/UK/Finnish restaurants that sell pizza

      --
      www.RacquetUp.org - Helping Detroit Youth
    64. Re:Wait a minute. by picoboy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hell, thousands of hackers across the world have the motivation, capability, and demonstrated willingness to do things like this.

      So you're suggesting that thousands of hackers knew that Iran used Siemens PLCs, knew the specific equipment being controlled by those PLCs, knew how to modify the program code in those PLCs to damage that equipment, had multiple stolen certificates, and had apparently four zero day exploits cued up and ready to be blown on this. Even as a self-righteous slashdot-reading geek, I'm not buying it. This was government all the way. The bullshit dates were thrown in the code to add an intentional tinge of unprofessionalism to an otherwise ridiculously professional piece of work.

    65. Re:Wait a minute. by myowntrueself · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      So the Jews are motivated, capable, willing, and utter fucking idiots who reveal everything in easter eggs in the program.

      As much as I loathe and despise the state of Israel, I think its entirely inappropriate to equate "Jew" with "Israeli".

      There are plenty of nice, tolerant Jews that I have known whereas virtually all of the Israelis I have known have been racist and xenophobic.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    66. Re:Wait a minute. by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      Inconceivable!

    67. Re:Wait a minute. by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      If you believe what's written in the Hong Kong dailies then China is the main target. Last week almost every day stories about Stuxnet, and how it attacks Chinese computer and industrial infrastructure.

      I've been reading a lot about this worm on /. and a bit in other media where Iran is always seen as the main target. Yet Iran wasn't even mentioned in any of those targets!

      What was mentioned though was that according to Siemens engineers the infection rate in China was low, and that few if any PLCs in China were actually infected with this worm. Making the whole story sound all the more alarmist of course.

    68. Re:Wait a minute. by DrugCheese · · Score: 1

      Hehe, tough stretch ...

      --
      *DrugCheese rants*
    69. Re:Wait a minute. by DrugCheese · · Score: 1

      Have you analyzed stuxnet then? Because those that have say there's no way this could be a 'someone'.

      --
      *DrugCheese rants*
    70. Re:Wait a minute. by wmac · · Score: 1

      WTF should Malaysia, Indonesia and Pakistan want to work against Iran? Or even Qatar which has a very good relation with Iran? All these countries I named have very near and friendly relation with Iran (and one could name it as strategic).

    71. Re:Wait a minute. by wmac · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, it does not.
      1- The distance is too long. They can carry very few bombs and small bombs are not effective. They need to have hundreds of sorties to be effective which is impossible.
      2- Iran has at least hundreds of missiles which can reach Tel-Aviv and it can effectively retaliate any attack.

      Do not read too much Science Fiction.

    72. Re:Wait a minute. by osu-neko · · Score: 1

      2. Israelis speak Hebrew. The name Esther is written and pronounced as ESTER (transliteration, the 'E' is short, like in 'merry'). *Nobody* uses the word "Myrtus". Also see #1 above.

      Myrtus is what they called it. That's not an easter egg, it's a name. And people frequently use words like that for names of things. Your argument is like claiming no-one in an English speaking country would name something "Veritas", since no one uses that word, they use "truth" instead. Alas, in the real world, that's precisely the reason people use the less common word when they're naming something. They deliberately pick archaic words, legendary names, or just less common words to avoid confusion.

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    73. Re:Wait a minute. by lewko · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That an anonymous coward will write-off another person's opinion, simply because they may be Jewish, is rather strange. Until you realize that the anonymous coward is an anti-Semite.

      Up next: Anonymous coward insists some of his best friends are Jewish. Film at eleven.

      --
      Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
    74. Re:Wait a minute. by lewko · · Score: 1

      Translation: I hate and loathe the world's only Jewish state and everybody in it. But I'm not an anti-Semite. Some of my best frirends are Jewish!

      You sir, are a walking cliche for Jew-haters. Can't you at least be honest about it?

      --
      Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
    75. Re:Wait a minute. by alexo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Have you ever heard of an Israeli project, military or otherwise, named after a Greek word when a Hebrew one is available?
      And I am not talking about translations by non-Hebrew media.

    76. Re:Wait a minute. by arivanov · · Score: 3, Informative

      And how many independent hackers have access to SCADA? SCADA systems are not something that ends up just on any hacker's desk just like that.

      One thing this incident shows is that SCADA security is inexistent when facing a modern "Internet Style" attack. It has all: buffer overruns, bad coding, idiotic design decision and total lack of security awareness in the admins who set up the networks. However, because it looks secure from the perspective of Joe Average Utility IT manager it is deemed secure.

      After this incident this "secure" statement will be questioned quite a lot in most countries.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    77. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, that wouldn't leave enough space for Israel apologists to confuse everyone.

    78. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is only kind of people more ridiculous than anti-semites are Israel-apologists.

    79. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      FWIW, Arabs are Semites too. So there's a lot of antiSemitism going on amongst the Semites :).

    80. Re:Wait a minute. by doogledog · · Score: 1

      Being Jewish doesn't necessarily have much to do with being Israeli (and vice-versa).

    81. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok... how about this. I am Jewish (don't believe in any of it though). I couldn't care less where someone is from and what their heritage is, what matters to me is who they are as a person.
      However, a lot of Israelis I've met (both in Israel and outside) have been highly arrogant, sexist, racist and xenophobic. This isn't to say that all Israelis are like this... far from it! But unfortunately, stereotypes often exist for a reason... and I can see how its easy for someone to make a statement like the GP did.

      I wouldn't say the GP is a Jew-hater. I would say though that the GP is either exaggerating for dramatic effect or has been particularly unlucky in meeting Israelis... but its also not impossible to imagine its the truth.

    82. Re:Wait a minute. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2, Informative

      And how many independent hackers have access to SCADA? SCADA systems are not something that ends up just on any hacker's desk just like that. http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=scada&_sacat=See-All-Categories Lots and lots of SCADA manuals, simulators and even some actual hardware. Locate in thirty seconds. I'm sure there is plenty more if you venture outside ebay. SCADA gear is not classified technology. True, it's not something you'll find in the home, but it is something a curious hacker could easily buy.

    83. Re:Wait a minute. by dbIII · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most of the threats were along the lines of "I hate those guys too so vote for me". Notice how since the last election was blatantly rigged there haven't been any threats? They are not needed.
      While the support for Hizbolla is real, consider that the rockets used are 40 years old or more and probably were about to be thrown out. If Iran really wanted to hurt Israel to the point where they would be handing it to Syria on a platter they would send more money and newer rockets.
      Iran doesn't directly attack Israel because even if they managed to somehow win a conflict they wouldn't get to keep anything. The aggression against Israel is mainly for domestic consumption but also lets them pretend they care about Palestinians so they can pretend to have something more in common with the Arab states.
      When they get nuclear weapons the most likely situation would be "nice island you've got there Bahrain, shame if something happened to it but I'm selling nuclear insurance" instead of some crazed mutual annihilation with Israel.

    84. Re:Wait a minute. by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      You sir, are a walking cliche for Jew-haters. Can't you at least be honest about it?

      It sounds like you're the one with racist issues. Do you think that disliking one person equates to disliking the whole group of them?

      That is pretty much the behaviour you see from arseholes from *any* "minority" group, incidentally - you're a walking stereotype.
      Prima: "You're an arsehole."
      Secunda: "ZOMG THAT'S RACIST/HOMOPHOBIC/ANTI-SEMITIC/SEXIST/<whatever>IST!"
      Prima: "No, I just don't like *you*, specifically."
      Secunda: "ZOMG YOU HATE ALL <insert group here>!"
      Prima: "No, just you, and you've just demonstrated why."

    85. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An interesting data point: this idea of making a cyber-weapon which targets SCADA systems was prominently mused about in a major Israeli newspaper about a year before Stuxnet actually started to spread in the wild. The description back then was quite spot on given what we know of Stuxnet today.

      Of course, it could be someone trying to false flag Israel. But I think that is more unlikely.

      They did it, they got sloppy, like in Dubai.

    86. Re:Wait a minute. by A+Friendly+Troll · · Score: 1

      Please tell me /.ers don't fall for this crap idea that the fact that the code is well-written is evidence of government involvement in writing the code. Really? That makes sense to someone who writes code?

      The code:

      1) Uses *four* previously unexploited 0-days
      2) Uses *two* digitally signed certificates obtained from Realtek and Jmicron
      3) Targets an extremely specific configuration, to the tune of "lgw's coffee mug is on the middle shelf of his leftmost kitchen cabinet, second from the right, and has a Hello Kitty stamped on it"

      Those things do not come cheaply. In fact, if I were to guess, it would cost at least seven figures in any western-world currency of your choice, plus a shitload of intel and possibly some disappearing people along the way. That's out of reach of any "competent black hat".

    87. Re:Wait a minute. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Bah... forgot to put the br tags in again.

    88. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot should implement a system where if you don't press the "submit" button within a set time limit, the post will automatically be posted with "...{NO CARRIER}" appended.

      Then this would be funny.

    89. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What makes you think that this was a cyber attack on Iran? Are they the only country in the world using these specific PLCs?

    90. Re:Wait a minute. by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      People confuse 'anti-semitism' with 'anti-jewish'; arabs are semites.

      There are plenty of people living in and citizens of the state of Israel who are neither xenophobic nor racist. Its unfortunate that most of (BUT NOT ALL) of the Israelis I have known have been rather sadly rabid in their anti-semitism...

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    91. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the docs, not the "analysis" by an overpaid propaganda agent. The PLC it targets is not the one used by Iran.

    92. Re:Wait a minute. by CowboyBob500 · · Score: 1

      Israel is not a Jewish state. It is a Zionist state. Learn some history and learn the difference.

    93. Re:Wait a minute. by hey! · · Score: 1

      They can't make a decision on how to tie their collective shoes together...

      I believe someday they'll manage tie their shoes together, and collectively plunge forward into a brave new world.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    94. Re:Wait a minute. by demonlapin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      virtually all of the Israelis I have known have been racist and xenophobic

      When all of your immediate neighbors want to kill you, it does tend to push you a bit toward xenophobia.

    95. Re:Wait a minute. by Madsy · · Score: 1

      If you cared to read the report from Symantec, you would see that there are other indicators as well. For example, 58% of the infections were in Iran, beating the second place country 3 to 1. Obviously because the virus was originally seeded there, but perhaps you have a better explanation? There is nothing that indicates that Israel or any specific country is behind Stuxnet, but there are really good indications that Iran infrastructure was the target. Unless machines in Iran somehow are much more vulnerable to attack compared to machines in the other 100+ countries. What can be said about the attacks though, is that this was *not* in any way coded by a bedroom coder. It utilized four 0-day vulnerabilities, and compromised two digital certificates. On of them from Realtek and the other from JMicron. The worm's goal was to sabotage PLCs, and very specific one at that. It doesn't target any PLC. To be able to target the hardware Stuxnet does would require information from an insider. It's like ripped out from a Tom Clancy novel.

    96. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how many independent hackers have access to SCADA? SCADA systems are not something that ends up just on any hacker's desk just like that.

      Quite many, actually. A presentation few years back (I do ot remember where) revealed that many SCADA systems can be accessed by wardialling. So you call a space of numbers and wait for a modem to answer, like in the Good Old Days.

      Then what? Most of the time the passwords are either default or some simple "bob"/"bob" combinations. This got them in without too much hassle.

      Of note is that here they targetted the control infrastructure, which being based on Windows is piss-poor security-wise. What's the point of a fancy door with iris detectors if you have a huge window left open behind the back where you can just walk in...

    97. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe they may have already done the tying and the plunge, and we'll have the chance to observe the splash.

    98. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However, a lot of Israelis I've met (both in Israel and outside) have been highly arrogant, sexist, racist and xenophobic. This isn't to say that all Israelis are like this...

      A lot of Americans I've met have been highly arrogant, sexist, racist and xenophobic. A lot of Frenchmen I've met have been highly arrogant, sexist, racist and xenophobic. A lot of Italians I've met have been highly arrogant, sexist, racist and xenophobic. A lot of Chinese I've met have been highly arrogant, sexist, racist and xenophobic.

      You can probably see where I'm going with this.

      But unfortunately, stereotypes often exist for a reason...

      Yes, negative stereotypes that reinforce existing prejudices tend to stick. In a world full of asshats, it's funny how Israel and Israelis always seems to get singled out.

    99. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Notice none of those really affect American Interests. Heck, if Hezbollah had had better means to defend it's people from IDF's 1996 massacring of a refugee camp, Muhammed Atta probably wouldn't have committed himself to extremism and a few thousand more Americans might still be alive today.

    100. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally I never get involved in land wars in Asia and just call it a day.

    101. Re:Wait a minute. by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      Never mind that.

      If you were to craft an illicit weapon, would you stick your fingerprint on it if you didn't want it coming back to you? No, you'd wear gloves and avoid any possibility of contamination.

      A date like this in there is either an outside coincidence, is significant for a technical reason (eg. it relates to the code bases being attacked), or it's a false flag attack intended to make it look like Israel is responsible.

      Anyone - an individual or a group of individuals - capable of writing something like this had to know that it would spread outside the desired infection targets, and that it would be a hot button, politically. Allies of Israel (or at least, nations Israel would not want to piss off) would be impacted.

      Look, I get it. Being anti-Jew is popular amongst liberals in the West, for some reason; being anti-Israel is even more so. But concluding that "this was Israel's fault" is asinine. Shit, it even goes against the "crafty Jew" stereotype to be this brazen.

      Consider: if I were someone's enemy and that enemy remarked intent to attack a mutual opponent, might I not perpetrate that attack in the initial enemy's name, killing two birds with one stone?

      In my opinion, these are the most likely scenarios (not mutually exclusive):

      * It was perpetrated by a group or groups which have hostile intents towards Israel, either physically, politically, or simply ideologically - and would be willing to harm allies to accomplish an attack against Israel. Candidates spring to mind: any number of groups of Muslims/Arabs, any Arab/Muslim country (Saudi Arabia?), hell, even Venezuela.
      * A country/countries which would benefit politically/financially by damaging the Middle Eastern oil, gas, and nuclear facilities. By chance, they might be operating facilities using different technology which is not impacted by Stuxnet. The result would be higher demand for their own products in the same industries.
      * A financial group which would benefit from the collapse of said industries in the Middle East.
      * Interest groups which would benefit (politically, economically, ideologically) from the supply of oil ceasing and which happen to dislike the Jews. (Hell, Ford Motor Company doing this is more plausible in my mind than the Jews - in the desire to push people to EVs.)
      * It's also possible that the Jews were just a convenient scrapegoat, given how much progressive groups in the West seem to hate them. "Something evil happened, it must've been those Jews!" Seems damn near every conspiracy theory these days has, "... and the Jews/Israel..." in it.

      Personally, that Israel/Jews would do it sounds outrageous. The last thing I'm going to do if I make an attack against someone is put my fingerprints all over the weapon so I can say, "Look, I'm being framed!"

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    102. Re:Wait a minute. by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      They can't make a decision on how to tie their collective shoes together, much less conspire to attack a foreign country.

      To be fair, tying that many shoes together would be time consuming and difficult: bathroom and lunch breaks, people with poor balance, butting heads, etc. would all make for quite the clusterfuck.

      Look at the EU's "common position" on the Iran sanction proposals for the spine, resolution, unity and swift action the "state actor" has...

      I looked, but all I could find information on was medusozoa, eels, and slime molds which are more than happy to poison you if it means their own personal preservation.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    103. Re:Wait a minute. by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      As much as I loathe and despise the state of Israel

      How come?

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    104. Re:Wait a minute. by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Anybody want a peanut?

    105. Re:Wait a minute. by h4rm0ny · · Score: 1

      Being Jewish doesn't necessarily have much to do with being Israeli (and vice-versa).

      Damn right. There are tonnes of Jewish people who think the actions of the Israeli government are monstrous. But there's a very organised and vocal Israeli lobby that just love trying to make Israel synonymous with Jewish and portray any criticism of themselves as anti-semitic. When of course that strategy actually increases anti-semitism when a country with particularly nasty policies keeps trumpeting "Nuh-uh, we're doing this in the name of Jews everywhere, not just on behalf of a country". It's one of Israel's best cards and they play it to death, leaving Jewish critics of Israel to be ignored at best, or condemned as traitors to their people or grandparents at worst.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    106. Re:Wait a minute. by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Russian Jews illegal activities, like drug production and distribution, diamond smuggling is often done along with the Russian Mob.

    107. Re:Wait a minute. by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      I think that nothing has done more to harm the reputation of international Jewry than the actions of the state of Israel.

      People around the world look at the actions of the nation "Israel" and they imagine that all Jews are part of this and support it. They see Jewish 'conspiracies' everywhere. I don't believe that the international monetary system is used and manipulated by secret covens of Jewish bankers. I happen to know for a fact that not all Jews even support the *existence* of the *political* state of Israel.

      The nation which we know today as "Israel" is a geopolitical entity with an agenda which (I believe) it pushes very aggressively and arrogantly; as a nation-state its probably one of the more unpleasant ones on Earth today. But I don't believe that Judaism is 'about' geopolitics. But this is an image which those Israeli politicians encourage.

      The problem, I believe, that many international Jews face today is that they are held responsible for the actions of the POLITICIANS of the NATION that calls itself "Israel". I do not believe that what these politicians do, they do for Judaism.

      I think that these politicians are callously using Judaism, even the holocaust, to support and condone their own agendas. That would be so cynical and abusive of the memory of those that died in the holocaust that they deserve nothing but contempt.

      I don't loathe and despise *all* of the people that live within the borders of or are citizens of the state of Israel; its not about the human beings, its about the politics.

      Many states have ultra-nationalist problems. I loathe and despise ultra-nationalists. And it seems to me that in the case of the state of Israel, the ultra-nationalists are very much in charge.

      People are not their nationalities; they are human beings regardless of which nation they have citizenship of. They should see one another in terms of their common shared humanity rather than in terms of nationalism which is an awful, divisive influence.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    108. Re:Wait a minute. by ultranova · · Score: 1

      So the Jews are motivated, capable, willing, and utter fucking idiots who reveal everything in easter eggs in the program. It's like dealing with Bush's duller critics all over again - either the Jews are scheming, vicious bastards, or they're just total fucking morons. But you have to choose one of those and stand by it.

      No, it's entirely possible to be a vicious, scheming evil genius yet blow the whole thing because you start thinking everyone else is a moron incapable of deciphering your "brilliant" clues. It's also possible that Israel wanted to leave non-binding evidence to act as a threat.

      Also, we aren't talking about Jews. We are talking about Israel. The first is a people, the second is a nation-state. They are not synonymous.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    109. Re:Wait a minute. by sjames · · Score: 1

      It's hardly enough for an indictment, but it's enough to make them a "person of interest".

    110. Re:Wait a minute. by sjames · · Score: 1

      It's not an unreasonable idea. Real attacks have consequences in world diplomacy (not to mention counter attacks) and are hard to plausibly deny. Meanwhile, this entirely deniable attack has done a great deal of damage to Iran's nuclear program (looks like about as much as bombing the plant would have caused). Given that it involved stealing 2 security certs, it's a bit out of the reach of a lot of black hats acting alone. That sort of thing is a lot easier for a proper espionage program to pull off.

      Of course, it could easily be a country that hates both Iran and Israel. (There's that deniability).

    111. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -1 Boring

    112. Re:Wait a minute. by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      I think that nothing has done more to harm the reputation of international Jewry than the actions of the state of Israel.

      You have yet to explain why you "loathe and despise the state of Israel". Do you think it was wrong to offer Jews a tiny piece of land, when the Arabs got massive areas? Should all the land in the area have been given to the Arabs?

      Many states have ultra-nationalist problems. I loathe and despise ultra-nationalists. And it seems to me that in the case of the state of Israel, the ultra-nationalists are very much in charge.

      How so?

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    113. Re:Wait a minute. by kumanopuusan · · Score: 1

      Nope, you can't use the birthday paradox. Your higher estimate of 10 developers gives a 12% chance of a shared birthday between the developers.

      The probability of at least one of 10 developers having a given birthday is much lower, 1-(364/365)^10, or approximately 2.7%.

      --
      Use of the words "good", "bad" or "evil" is almost invariably the result of oversimplification.
    114. Re:Wait a minute. by Stihdjia · · Score: 1

      why was this modded flamebait? it's perfectly legitimate to criticize the state of israel. i promise, god won't strike you down for not covering your eyes and ears at such blasphemy. judaism is a religion and ethnic group. it is wrong to hate jews. zionism is a political doctrine that has caused much human suffering in the past century. i see nothing wrong with hating that.

      --
      I see the fnords!
    115. Re:Wait a minute. by Stihdjia · · Score: 1

      You have yet to explain why you "loathe and despise the state of Israel". Do you think it was wrong to offer Jews a tiny piece of land, when the Arabs got massive areas? Should all the land in the area have been given to the Arabs?

      Yes. Absolutely yes. All of the land (seemingly obviously) should have been "given" to the contemporary occupiers. Actually, it was nobody's to give in the first place. Some people lived in Palestine. Zionists claimed they were the rightful owners, because their ancestors lived there thousands of years ago. And POOF! Like magic, the state of Israel is created, with a population of formerly illegal squatters. Jewish people from all over the world were urged to immigrate. All of the sudden, thousands of people who were once proud homeowners became refugees. Maybe the Palestinian land was larger, but it was the undesirable land they got. De facto Israeli borders have been expanding every day, despite international outcry and world-wide acknowledgment that Israeli settlements break international law. I don't understand why anyone should feel they need to explain why they hate Israel. How so?

      --
      I see the fnords!
    116. Re:Wait a minute. by Stihdjia · · Score: 1

      Sorry, accidentally pressed submit. Continuing.

      How so?

      Seriously? The existence of Israel is a shout in the face of the world,"We don't have to follow worldly laws. We answer only to [our] God." A state founded for the sake of a single numerically marginal, yet unaccountably powerful, religious group is a recipe for hatred. Hatred not only directed at Israelis, but by Israelis at anyone who opposes their slow-motion genocide of native Palestinians through blockades and monopoly of infrastructure. Palestinians are not permitted to use Israeli roads. Would you please suggest to these families and me how else they could bring their goods to market? This is the most despicable face of hyper-nationalism. It is outright hostility to those not part of the zionist nation-race-cult.

      --
      I see the fnords!
    117. Re:Wait a minute. by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      All of the land (seemingly obviously) should have been "given" to the contemporary occupiers.

      It was. Palestine was populated by Jews and Arabs. Israel's borders were drawn around the areas where Jews were already living.

      Actually, it was nobody's to give in the first place.

      So Britain should have just kept it? Because what they did was to give the land to the people who lived there - both Jews and Arabs.

      Some people lived in Palestine. Zionists claimed they were the rightful owners, because their ancestors lived there thousands of years ago. And POOF! Like magic, the state of Israel is created, with a population of formerly illegal squatters.

      Israel made up a tiny part of the area called Palestine. The Jewish population was largely a result of them escaping from mass-murder and persecution in other parts of the world, and settling on available land in Palestine.

      Jewish people from all over the world were urged to immigrate.

      They did so because they were being persecuted in the rest of the world. Israel was a place where there was available land, and they could settle down and protect themselves.

      All of the sudden, thousands of people who were once proud homeowners became refugees.

      Nope. They didn't become refugees until several Arab countries tried to wipe out the newly formed state of Israel, combined with guerilla attacks by Arabs inside the new state. This caused Israel to take desperate measures, and evict people who were considered a threat. On the other hand, Arabs who were not connected to guerilla warfare were encouraged by the Jewish authorities to stick around, and continue their lives as normally as they could.

      Maybe the Palestinian land was larger, but it was the undesirable land they got.

      Nonsense. The Jewish immigrants largely settled in areas that were infertile (desert or swamp). They then used water from the swamps to make it possible to grow plants in previous desert areas. This made the previously undesirable land extremely tempting, and Arabs started immigrating to the area in huge numbers because the Jews had turned swamp and desert into fertile land, and raised the standard of living massively.

      So the Jews settled on the least desirable land, and made it more desirable.

      De facto Israeli borders have been expanding every day,

      This is a blatant lie. Israeli borders have expanded as Israel has been attacked. If those other countries hadn't attacked Israel, Israel would not have carried through a military occupation of the attackers' land.

      I don't understand why anyone should feel they need to explain why they hate Israel.

      So if a country does something it shouldn't, it should be disbanded? Or is it just Jewish countries that are subject to this rule of yours?

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    118. Re:Wait a minute. by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

      The existence of Israel is a shout in the face of the world,"We don't have to follow worldly laws. We answer only to [our] God."

      This is nonsense. Israel was founded on purely secular grounds: Jews were being persecuted in the rest of the world, and they found a place to settle down. They wanted their own country, and Britain wanted to give Palestine to the inhabitants.

      A state founded for the sake of a single numerically marginal, yet unaccountably powerful, religious group is a recipe for hatred.

      Again, Israel was founded for secular reasons.

      their slow-motion genocide of native Palestinians

      If this is a genocide, Israel is pathetically bad at conducting genocides, considering that the Arab population is growing!

      Also, what are "native Palestinians"? You do realize that the Arabs are from the Arab Peninsula, and themselves immigrants? They emigrated from the Arab Peninsula, and slaughtered down those who stood in their way.

      Palestinians are not permitted to use Israeli roads.

      Just like Germans during WWII were not permitted to use roads built by the allied forces. When you are at war with someone, you tend to prevent them from moving freely.

      Would you please suggest to these families and me how else they could bring their goods to market? This is the most despicable face of hyper-nationalism. It is outright hostility to those not part of the zionist nation-race-cult.

      No, the reason why Palestinians are not permitted to use those roads is that they have conducted acts of terrorism, and that is why Israel had to tighten their grip. They wanted to defend their own population.

      Once the armed conflict between Israel and the Palestinians ends, Palestinians will once again be able to freely travel on Israeli roads.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    119. Re:Wait a minute. by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Thanks for your support.

      I think its very sad that people hate Jews when what they really have a problem with is Zionism and ultra-nationalism.

      People need to get some perspective; people on both sides of this conflict.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    120. Re:Wait a minute. by dloose · · Score: 1

      The term anti-semitism was coined -- and is still defined -- to mean "prejudice against Jews". True story.

    121. Re:Wait a minute. by dloose · · Score: 1

      the alt ruined it... just like xkcd

    122. Re:Wait a minute. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not unheard of for criminals to leave a subtle "calling card" to enhance their reputation and act as a disincentive for people to cross them in the future...

    123. Re:Wait a minute. by lewko · · Score: 1

      You need to research the term anti-Semitism. It has nothing to do with people being "Semitic" or otherwise.

      The argument you raise has been promulgated mainly by Arabs, to dismiss ugly Arab anti-Semitism on the basis that they are Semites and therefore couldn't possibly be anti-Semitic, despite being the biggest Jew-murderers since WWII.

      It's a stupid argument, which regrettably seems to be gaining traction with stupid people.

      --
      Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
  2. Fear mongering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So it's the new craze now, trying to get news outlets to listen to you using political/racial fear mongering virus news!

    1. Re:Fear mongering by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1

      So it's the new craze now, trying to get news outlets to listen to you using political/racial fear mongering virus news!

      It's not quite a craze yet, but it is spreading ;-)

  3. Proof??? by ArieKremen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They were smart enough to write and deploy a complex virus, but stupid enough to include a reference to an obscure execution date of a prominent Iranian Jew; the first .Google hit conveniently pointing to the relevant Wikipedia entry. That screams red herring (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring_(idiom)), not proof.

    --
    -- Cave quid dicis, quando, et cui
    1. Re:Proof??? by NecroPuppy · · Score: 1

      This.

      It's not like Israel is the only country / group / whatever in the world who doesn't like Iran.

      I know that if I were writing something that targetted a group, I'd add in at least a few things that pointed to "someone other than me", if only to confuse the matter / feed the conspiracy theorists.

      Like, if I were targetting Israel with something, I'd have to slap in something about Mel Gibson being the source.

      --
      I like you, Stuart. You're not like everyone else, here, at Slashdot.
    2. Re:Proof??? by hex0D · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The whole idea could be is that it doesn't prove anything, but still tells everyone who's responsible. Perhaps a threat veiled enough to not be actionable legally, but still heard loud and clear. I see pulling that off as evidence of smarts, not stupidity.

    3. Re:Proof??? by AffidavitDonda · · Score: 1

      Yes, and then I would add a few things that would point directly at me, only make them so stupid and easy to find, that it looks as somebody else has put them in to point at me...
      And then insert something, that adds up to 23 in some way, to give some food to the conspiracy theorists as well.

      That's a kind of vicious circle and the whole "Who did it?" discussion is just aimless.

    4. Re:Proof??? by future+assassin · · Score: 1

      >They were smart enough to write and deploy a complex virus, but stupid enough to include a reference to an obscure execution date of a prominent Iranian Jew; the first

      Right because no tech genius is ego driven or has enough common sense to let his/her feeling get in a way of the job.

      --
      by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    5. Re:Proof??? by ArieKremen · · Score: 1

      Don't you think that if a state-sponsored agency wrote and deployed the virus, the QA/QC would remove ego-driven references? A basement hacker has an ego, a state-sponsored team of programmers have a task.

      --
      -- Cave quid dicis, quando, et cui
    6. Re:Proof??? by WidgetGuy · · Score: 1

      At the risk of being labelled a "Grammar Nazi," I think you meant to say in your SIG: "Snoop unto them as they snoop unto unto us."

      --
      One "Aw, Shit!" is worth 100 "Ata boys!"
    7. Re:Proof??? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      They were smart enough to write and deploy a complex virus, but stupid enough to include a reference to an obscure execution date of a prominent Iranian Jew;

      The stupidity of including a self-implicating date reference gives everything away. Obviously the whole virus is a plot by Iran to implicate Israel, so they have a good excuse for launching a "retaliatory" strike against Israel once their nuke program has produced a weapon.

      But wait! The sophistication of the virus shows that the authors must have studied. And in studying, they would have learned that conspiracy theorists would have come up with the idea that Iran sabotaged themselves to get people to blame Israel. So Israel could've developed the worm themselves, deliberately leaving in "stupid" self-references so people would think they wouldn't have done something so obviously dumb and self-implicating. So clearly we must conclude that it was self-inflicted by Iran.

      But then, Iranians are used to having people not trust them. So Iran could've gambled that people would think of Israel misdirecting people into thinking Iran was misdirecting people into thinking Israel did it. So the original theory that Iran did it to implicate Israel still works too.

      ...

      *points* What in the world could that be!?!

    8. Re:Proof??? by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "The stupidity of including
      [...]
      But wait! The sophistication of the virus
      [...]
      But then, Iranians are used to having people not trust them"

      Yeah, sure, and you never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line, blah, blah...
      Duh... They were both poisoned.

    9. Re:Proof??? by kestasjk · · Score: 1

      That is a possibility that has to be taken into consideration. Then again it's not the only piece of evidence that points towards Israel as others have wrote, and it's not like all pieces of evidence point towards Israel anyway, but we should still consider all evidence in its entirety. Some of the evidence aren't in the form of intentional clues, but project and file names left in metadata which are difficult to completely erase.
      Also they built in no way for the worm to automatically uninstall itself after a length of time, which would have been pretty trivial to do (though they did limit the number of machines it was supposed to infect), even though they went to lots of precaution to ensure it wouldn't be detected while the attack was taking place. This gives the impression that they didn't care about the worm being analyzed after the attack had occurred.

      There are also clues left in the dates stolen certificates were used to sign drivers, not impossible to forge but when everything is taken together (motives, strings, metadata, dates, etc) you can make a case that isn't as ridiculous as many claim ("one obscure date? pfff") that Israel was involved. You can make a case for other scenarios as well, but this is analysis well worth doing.

      Lets not forget this thing is unprecedented, and many would have thought the whole notion was ridiculous. Comparison to past cases and evidence is how people tell whether a theory is sound or not, and there isn't much of either here, so in with the reasonable conjecture there is going to be a lot of baseless accusation, and we need to carefully consider it all.

      More than anything I would love to hear a plausible case from someone with insider knowledge as to which PLC this thing was aiming for. It's tantalizing that we have the code which altered the PLC's function yet we don't know what PLC it was aimed at.

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    10. Re:Proof??? by osu-neko · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't you think that if a state-sponsored agency wrote and deployed the virus, the QA/QC would remove ego-driven references?

      I like to imagine governments would do all kinds of things that would make sense. Alas, I don't live in the imaginary world where they actually succeed at it all the time.

      A basement hacker has an ego, a state-sponsored team of programmers have a task.

      I'm gonna venture a guess that you've never worked for the government. XD Ego-driven behavior tends to be more common there than in corporations, at least in my experience.

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    11. Re:Proof??? by CSMoran · · Score: 1

      project and file names left in metadata which are difficult to completely erase.

      Are you trying to say that people who came up with four cool vulnerabilities, two of them 0-day, who built a pretty professional worm+rootkit, etc, etc did not how to spot and erase project metadata?

      --
      Every end has half a stick.
    12. Re:Proof??? by kestasjk · · Score: 1

      No, I was trying to say that taken all together it isn't unlikely to be an oversight. Like I said they didn't build cleaning up after itself into the worm, and although a lot of it was very professional the parts that didn't have to be weren't very professional. (e.g. no cleanup, no decentralized update/administration mechanism, all comparatively easy but clearly not a priority)

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
  4. It's public intentionally, duh. by gclef · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why are they surprised that it broke out? That's probably part of the whole idea: seed the target area (presumably Iran) with flash drives with the worm on it, then sit back and wait. When world + dog gets infected, you know *someone* in your targeted area picked up the flash drives, so there's a very high likelihood that someone at your target site infected their PC.

    Doing it this way allows the attacker to know that they've succeeded (and presumably to take whatever follow-up measure they had planned) without giving away who they are. Since *everyone* knows that the worm exists, there's no secret signal path to trace back to the author.

  5. Significant Dates.. by Xaositecte · · Score: 1

    It's possible to attach significance to any given date in the past 60+ years to an important, though obscure, event that occurred in the Middle East. Someone dies, someone is born, or elected, or deposed, or a protest is held, etc.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Israel really DID organize Stuxnet, and the date hidden in the code DID mean something, but whoever put it in there was referring to a completely different obscure historical event.

    1. Re:Significant Dates.. by forkazoo · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't be surprised if Israel really DID organize Stuxnet, and the date hidden in the code DID mean something, but whoever put it in there was referring to a completely different obscure historical event.

      I'm on the same boat. Attributing specific meaning to a date without more information is basically the same game as reading the bible codes, or guessing possible meanings of something encrypted with a one time pad. It can make for an entertaining party game, but it isn't a source of new information in itself. It could just as well be the day the author was born, or the day his father proposed to his mother, or the day his favorite pet goldfish died, or anything else that an outsider with no contextual knowledge could ever accurately figure out. Maybe his cousin just wrote a screenplay that happened to take place on that day for no particular reason, so the author mentioned it as part of a viral marketing campaign. (groan)

  6. KGB ! by bubbakja · · Score: 3, Funny

    In Russia you don't blame code, code blames somebody else !

  7. Israel vs arab nukes by hex0D · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Watching the news reports on Iran's nuclear program about a month ago, I started to wonder if Israel would rely on diplomacy alone to resolve the issue. They sure didn't in 1981 when Iraq was building a nuclear reactor in Osirak, they flew in F-16s and bombed it. So it's not without precedent for the Israelis to attack Arab nuclear facilities.

    I for one respect their taking direct action in the interest of their national security. And if they can do so in a way that does not cost human life, all the better.

    1. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by X-Power · · Score: 1, Informative

      Repeat after me, Iranians are not arab. Turks are not arabs, afghanis are not arabs, israelis are not arab. The middle east is not just arabs with jews thrown in for good measure.

    2. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by athmanb · · Score: 1

      The Arabs are building nukes in Iran? Someone needs to tell the Iranian government about this I'm sure they're going to be just as shocked as everyone else.

    3. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by couchslug · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Why is that a Troll? Bitches with mod points should answer that argument instead of getting their panties wedged.

      When you have an enemy that merits attack, laws and convention and all the "civilized" nonsense that is LESS important than "not being put to the sword" goes out the window as it should.

      Conventional "morality" is a luxury of those who are protected by overwhelming force. Israel is surrounded by religious enemies, and won't get a second chance to lose a war.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    4. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      I guess most Western folks don't know that the Arabs and Persians are different and are strong rivals, not allies.

    5. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by gtall · · Score: 1

      C'mon, no one it their right mind thinks taking out any surface structures supporting Iran's nuclear activity is going to prevent them from building the Shi'ite Peace Maker Bomb of Allah. Neither the U.S. nor Israel thinks this is possible. All the "leaks" are just rattle Iran's cage. There's no taking out Iran's nuclear ability and everyone knows it. Everything from here on out is either attempting to delay their ability to produce their pathetic attempt at showing they aren't a bunch of Big Swinging Dicks or deal with the consequences. What do they think they Arab regimes will respond with? A collective bow down in the direction of Tehran or nukes of their own? In 20 years, we'll have a nuclear armed Gulf grinning at each other while they sharpen their missiles. Some idiot on the Shi'ite side, begging for the return of the 12th Imam, will push the button...first at Israel. And then, after the Arabs realize this means the potential victory of Shi'ism over Sunnism, they'll push their own button. And all will die satisfied they've killed more Jews than Hilter and Stalin combined. A pox on the lotl of them.

    6. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2, Informative

      There are Arab Israelis, I went drinking with a bunch of Christian Arabs in Jerusalem one night.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel

      Also met a super friendly family of Druze.

    7. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by euroq · · Score: 1

      Repeat after me... Iraqis are Arab.

      --
      Just because the U.S. is a republic does not mean it is not a democracy. Democracy/republic are not mutually exclusive.
    8. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by hex0D · · Score: 1

      I'm actually not one of those Western folks, but you wouldn't know it from my original post. But it was with them in mind that I sacrificed strict accuracy in favor of readability. I did not think it detracted from my point. My apologies if it did.

    9. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by Dave+Emami · · Score: 1

      Sorry to nitpick, and I know it's not central to your post, but Iranians are not Arabs any more than Koreans are Japanese or Poles are Russians. In fact, if you're in the wrong place -- Riyadh or Tehran, say, or Westwood, California -- it's a nice way to piss someone off.

      --

      "The Greens lynched a hacker in Chicago. Last month, but I think the body's still hanging from the old Water Tower."
    10. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by hex0D · · Score: 1

      Neither the U.S. nor Israel thinks this is possible.

      Why wouldn't Israel think this? They took out Saddam's surface facility, and he never got the bomb.

    11. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by mr100percent · · Score: 1

      Baloney. Israel has had nuclear weapons for decades and the whole region knows it. Heck, the Israeli government has unofficially admitted it. If you're going to blame anyone for an arms race, blame Israel. Maybe we should blame the US for turning a blind eye to Israel's nuclear program. The US ambassidor to Israel during the 60's and 70's said that his job was to make sure the President didn't have to act on Israel's nuclear issue; "The President did not send me there to give him problems. He does not want to be told any bad news." How about arming Saddam Hussein to attack Iran, leading to a million deaths and making them desire a larger military for self-defense?

      Secondly, Iranians aren't apocalyptic; unlike the Christian Zionists they don't think the end of the world will come about by their actions. If Ahmadinejad believes the end times are coming, he is more likely to sit back and wait for it to happen, not strike preemptively.

    12. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by mr100percent · · Score: 1

      Iran has not broken the laws. They have not broken the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and even offered to sign the additional protocols under the last President Khatami (I still blame Bush/Cheney for completely ignoring the offer). They did break their word when they said they wouldn't do anything unannounced and then went and built the Qom plant, but no laws broken. That means Israel is attacking another country illegally.

    13. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watching the news reports on Iran's nuclear program about a month ago, I started to wonder if Israel would rely on diplomacy alone to resolve the issue. They sure didn't in 1981 when Iraq was building a nuclear reactor in Osirak, they flew in F-16s and bombed it. So it's not without precedent for the Israelis to attack Arab nuclear facilities.

      I for one respect their taking direct action in the interest of their national security. And if they can do so in a way that does not cost human life, all the better.

      yes and our government should imprison people based on circumstantial evidence in the name of national security. Random numbers and word associations make great evidence. like for example your username has hex in it. hex has to do with witches. You must be a witch. Lucky for you witch burnings are out.

    14. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by Maltheus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't understand how a person can respect hypocrisy. Why is it ok for Israel to have nukes, but not Iran? Why is it ok for them to attack their neighbors and when anyone else does it, it's a crime?

    15. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except when it comes to hating Israel. The U.S. government is pretty much the only one that doesn't hate Israel.

    16. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by hex0D · · Score: 1
      Israel has never attacked it's neighbors in the way they have attacked Israel. Israel's attacks have been preemptive and limited to it's own immediate security needs. Israels neighbors have repeatedly attacked Israel with the express intention (still very much expressed today) of wiping it off the map and pushing every Jew into the sea.

      Not that I think Israel should have nukes, but they do. And I don't find it hypocritical to deny an enemy threatening to kill you a weapon whether you have that weapon or not.

    17. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      International law is only binding on states who agree to be bound or who are forced to be bound by other means (military, economic, etc). Talking about states breaking laws is kinda silly.

    18. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by BZ · · Score: 1

      > Why is it ok for Israel to have nukes, but not Iran?

      In terms of international law, as I understand it, because Iran signed a treaty (the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty). This treaty says (just the parts relevant here, quoting wikipedia liberally) that:

      1) Iran agrees to not "receive", "manufacture", or "acquire" nuclear weapons, or "seek or
              receive any assistance in the manufacture of nuclear weapons".
      2) Iran agrees to safeguards and inspections by the IAEA to enforce item 1 above.
      3) Iran can have a nuclear energy program as long as it can demonstrate that this is not
              being used for the development of nukes.
      4) The nuclear-armed signatories of the treaty (US, UK, France, Russia, and China)
              promise to not transfer "nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices" to any
              other countries and "not in any way to assist, encourage, or induce" any other
              countries to acquire nuclear weapons. That would include Iran under "other countries".

      The nuclear-armed signatories have also made some nonbinding commitments (as in, NOT part of the treaty) to not attack non-nuclear armed states with nukes unless first attacked with nukes themselves, or attacked by conventional forces of someone allied to someone with nukes.

      Israel has never signed this treaty (nor have India and Pakistan). Of course it has also never declared that it has nuclear weapons, even though everyone is pretty convinced it does based on various circumstantial evidence and Mordechai Vanunu's accusations. Israel _has_ publicly said they would not be the first country in the middle east to test a nuclear weapon.

      Now there are two possible "legal" (in terms of international law) courses of action for Iran. One is to stick to the NPT and not develop nuclear weapons. This may well be what they're doing; I don't have the information to judge. The other is to withdraw from the NPT (which requires 3 months notice and nothing else) and do whatever they want with regard to nuclear weapons. This is what North Korea ended up doing in 2003.

      Of course people might treat Iran withdrawing from the NPT as "a crime", but at that point it's a matter of that being possibly against said people's national interests, not a "crime" per se.

      I am not a lawyer; this is not international law advice. ;)

    19. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God, are people still spewing this nonsense? Just about everything in your post is non-factual. Don't you get tired of repeating the same bullshit over and over? There is documentation out the ass (by Israel's own leaders, no less) that they started the 1967 war, and that they knew the Arabs were not a threat. There is documentation in their own words that they pulled Syria into the conflict. It was a transparent land grab, and it accomplished exactly what it was intended to accomplish - gave Israel more land and a nice buffer between them and the neighbors and the people they displaced.

      And nobody has threatened to wipe Israel off the map, as in genocide them or anything like that. This is based on the mistranslation of Ackmadeenanutjob's comments about the Zionist regime currently in power in Israel. As in all things, it suits Israel to play the victim at any opportunity and to mask their aggression as self defense.

    20. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by trickyD1ck · · Score: 1

      Because the fact that the West (including Israel) has nuclear weapons, while other don't, is an enormous strategic advantage. As long as you identify with the Western civilization, non-proliferation it is a good thing, otherwise it obviously is not.

    21. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hypocrisy is embedded in democracy.

      Example:
      * Large democratic country A, where people are dying of hunger, democratically decides to ask country B for help.
      * Small democratic country B, with more food than they can eat in a million years, democratically decides to deny help to country A.

      Country A, believing in democracy, has to respect country B's democratically made decision, or give up their belief in democracy.

      Now if Israel democratically decides to attack it's neighbor, we have to respect this decision too, unless we democratically decide to disagree with them. Our belief in democracy goes so deep however, that we are much more likely to side with the democratic Israel.

      Democracy is a religion really. I don't think there's any objective scientific evidence that democracy is better for humankind (as opposed to a subset of humankind) than say, political Islam.

    22. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would a democracy fight an autocratic hateful regime of islamic fanatics from getting a nuclear weapon. I know, hypocrisy!

      If people respect you, they respect idiocy.

      Dumbass.

    23. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by NonUniqueNickname · · Score: 1

      Iran received much of their nuclear technology and facilities through assistance bound to the Non-Proliferation-Treaty, to which Iran is a signatory. Iran isn't standing up to its end of the treaty. Weapons research is an NPT violation. Limiting inspector access to its nuclear sites is also an on-going violation. On the other hand, Israel is not an NPT signatory. Israel never received NPT assistance. Israel isn't breaking any international laws by keeping its nuclear facilities closed.

      But wait, there's more. If you call right now operators will give you the names of not one but TWO more nuke-wielding countries that aren't signatories to the NTP. That's right, you're getting a grand total of THREE countries that never signed the NPT and are sitting on a nuclear arsenal. Funny how you never hear anyone ask why India can have nuclear weapons but Iran can't. Funny how the Arab league never proposed a UN resolution to force Pakistan into signing the NTP and opening their nuclear sites.

      Your words are the very definition of hypocrisy.

    24. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      What you're calling hypocritical is, basically, the rough equivalent of the police arresting the guy across the street who came over and shot your child in the face - and getting shot in the process of resisting.

      Israel has not once "attacked" it's neighbors. It has repeatedly have to contend with jihadists attacking into Israel from the stateless occupied territories to their west, and recently from Lebanon to their north (as a seemingly state-sponsored action). Historically they've had all of their neighbors attack them, unprovoked, for "being Jews".

      So, sure: Israel keeps attacking their neighbors, in the same way that a police officer shoots at people who are shooting at them, first. Damn hypocritical police officers!

      Your argument sucks. It's the one commonly employed by anti-Semites, and is at its core anti-Jew.

      I suspect Israel has nukes for the same reason any country with peaceable aims might (as Israel does): as a deterrent. Israel's actions are not of an aggressive hostile force; if they were, they'd have taken over the whole region and expunged or exterminated the residents, as is common amongst the other countries of the region. The behavior of their neighbors is precisely what Israel is trying to dissuade.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    25. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Israel == peaceable aims

      ????

      You from the ADL?

    26. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because Israel hasn't publicly demanded the genocide of an entire race/religion, and demanded nukes to achieve that goal?

    27. Re:Israel vs arab nukes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they are responsible concerning nuclear weapons when Irans does not prove to (and does not look like to be on the way) be so.

  8. This is China's doing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    They want to start a war with Israel/Middle East because they know the US would get sucked in and weakened.

    I don't buy this for a second.

    1. Re:This is China's doing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just wait till an Al-Qaeda member bombs a Chinese target. The American's will be seen a pussyfooting with these guys in comparison to what the PLA will do.

      Eventually, their hubris will be their downfall. All they have to do is piss off the wrong country.

    2. Re:This is China's doing. by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, it has Israel's hands all over it. Just like the Dubai hit, they have bought into their own hype and think they are the Master Spies. I honest to God think they've seem too many spy movies and are buying into the hype around Mossad.

  9. Really fails the smell test. by Apuleius · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Iran still has several thousand Jews living in Tehran and Isfahan. To refer to the execution of Elghanian is to invite the execution of some other scapegoat out of the Jewish community. The Mullahs of Iran are very, very easy to offend, tease, tweak, et cetera. There are plenty of ways to put insults aimed at them into this virus without pointing at the Jewish community, and rest assured any Israeli hacker knows plenty.

  10. Framed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It doesn't reveal anything at all about who wrote it. Anyone could have put such a date or other breadcrumbs in there to deliberately mislead anyone who might look into it.

  11. Whoever did release this by jd · · Score: 1, Interesting

    ...was utterly unconcerned for any potential cost. Many countries use German-made equipment. A prior story covered an air crash in Spain caused by viruses on mission-critical computers, demonstrating that critical computers are poorly-secured. There are likely to be French and British nuclear reactors that use the specific machine targeted. The "collateral damage" could have been extensive. Whether the virus was written by a member of the security forces or a member of the general public, one single inadvertent contamination of the wrong machine could have cause a gigantic nuclear accident in some of the most densely-populated parts of Europe.

    Is a temporary setback for Iran worth putting millions of European's live at risk over? (Yes, these countries ARE densely-populated. Britain isn't that much larger than Rhode Island but has over a quarter of the population of the entire United States. You don't need a hell of a lot to put a great many people in serious danger.)

    As far as I am concerned, whoever wrote that virus is guilty of endangerment on a scale unimaginable by most people.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Whoever did release this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      ...was utterly unconcerned for any potential cost.

      On the contrary, they made damn sure that the payload would only be triggered under very specific circumstances, the specifics of which are unknown to the general public. (Probably the only people who do know are the attackers and the target, and they aren't talking.)

      If you want a car analogy: Stuxnet isn't a Time Machine that triggers at 88 MPH. It's not even a Time Machine that only trips if it's installed in a DeLorean doing 88 MPH. You only see some serious shit if if you're doing 88 MPH in a DeLorean with a specific VIN.

    2. Re:Whoever did release this by joeflies · · Score: 1

      but none of the collateral damage scenarios did happen, so does that change your slippery slope speculation and accusations?

    3. Re:Whoever did release this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikipedia says that the UK is 94,060 sq. miles and Rhode island is 1545 sq. miles.

    4. Re:Whoever did release this by mrsquid0 · · Score: 1

      The British Isles are about 55 times larger than Rhode Island.

      --
      Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
    5. Re:Whoever did release this by it0 · · Score: 1

      well apparently deepwater horizon also had siemens computers, although it is assumed that stuxnet didn't cause the spill.

    6. Re:Whoever did release this by poliscipirate · · Score: 3, Informative

      Britain isn't that much larger than Rhode Island but has over a quarter of the population of the entire United States.

      Not to be picky, but Britain is a little over 80,000 square miles in area, while Rhode Island is around 1,200 square miles. Not even in the same ballpark.

    7. Re:Whoever did release this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Britain isn't that much larger than Rhode Island but has over a quarter of the population of the entire United States.

      Rhode Island is 1,214 sq miles and England itself is 50,337 sq miles, and the whole of the UK is 94,525 sq miles. That's far more than just a little larger than Rhode Island.

    8. Re:Whoever did release this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, your argument is not that a particular cyber-weapon is bad, but that it's bad because Europeans are put at risk. Yes, whoever wrote that virus is guilty of endangerment, but endangerment happens to affect even the filthy subhumans living outside the US and Europe all the time. Like, for example, innocent Iranians living in the neighborhoods around Iranian reactors.

    9. Re:Whoever did release this by sed+quid+in+infernos · · Score: 3, Informative

      Britain isn't that much larger than Rhode Island but has over a quarter of the population of the entire United States.

      Nope.

      Rhode Island area = 1,214 square miles; Great Britain area = 84,600 square miles - more than 60 times greater.

      Great Britain population = ~60 million (mid 2009); United States population = ~310 million (mid 2010) - more than 5 times greater.

    10. Re:Whoever did release this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Britain isn't that much larger than Rhode Island

      By Rhode Island, did you mean Utah?

    11. Re:Whoever did release this by War+Camel · · Score: 1

      p>Is a temporary setback for Iran worth putting millions of European's live at risk over? (Yes, these countries ARE densely-populated. Britain isn't that much larger than Rhode Island but has over a quarter of the population of the entire United States. .

      Mmm, not that wikipedia is the most reliable source, but Britain and Rhode Island differ in terms of area by nearly two orders of magnitude...

    12. Re:Whoever did release this by jd · · Score: 0, Troll

      There probably aren't that many innocent Iranians in the vicinity of Iranian reactors - at least in comparison to the number of innocent Britons living next to British nuclear reactors. The problem with the "innocent Iranians" argument is that there will be plenty of people who would argue that it was "for the greater good". On the other hand, an accident in Europe or America that was due to the virus is indisputably not for the "greater good". As I've said before, I have a serious problem with assassinations of any kind of anyone. I recognize that this opinion is not universally shared, so the logical thing to do is to look at whether this virus would potentially harm those whom all concerned would agree are not acceptable targets.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    13. Re:Whoever did release this by drachenstern · · Score: 1

      That's funny, I always thought the UK was about the size of Wyoming ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_us_states_by_size and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

      Now if you only mean England, then we can talk about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England and the size of Alabama ... which is pretty remarkable.

      Spiffy, compare the flags of the state and the country...

      --
      2^3 * 31 * 647
    14. Re:Whoever did release this by Internal+Modem · · Score: 1

      It spreads via USB flash drives, not the internet. It erases itself from the flash drive after infecting three machines. These are two controls built in to reduce collateral damage by limiting the virus' geographic region.

    15. Re:Whoever did release this by jd · · Score: 0, Troll

      The Internet Worm was programmed to not spread. Being programmed != being programmed correctly.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    16. Re:Whoever did release this by phantomcircuit · · Score: 1

      Too be fair his initial claim that Britain is densely populated still holds given that Britain is about ten times as densely populated at the US.

    17. Re:Whoever did release this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The virus targets a very specific version of the controller, one that is presumably not used in other countries.

      Oh hey, it's a version that's also NOT used in Iran!

      Until you send me a copy of stuxnet and a PLC to try it on.. this is just a hoax.

    18. Re:Whoever did release this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, given that RI's population is about 1 million, plus the info from the other post, the UK has the same population density as RI. Although it's the second most densely populated state, it doesn't seem all that populated if you drive through it.

    19. Re:Whoever did release this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not slippery slope speculation, but simply being misinformed. This virus was only capable to "infecting" very specific setups, which does prove it was intended for Iran's nuclear program. It is harmless on anything else. However, proving its origin is not as simple as reading the virus as UNICODE-8 and finding a random date. To answer your question: there is no valid slippery slope argument in this situation, and you probably don't even know what it means.

    20. Re:Whoever did release this by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      BP and Trans Ocean had enough stupidity points to blow the Deepwater Horizon up without help from anybody else. No additional boogy men needed.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    21. Re:Whoever did release this by osu-neko · · Score: 1

      Too be fair his initial claim that Britain is densely populated still holds given that Britain is about ten times as densely populated at the US.

      Eh... that's a bit like saying Rhode Island is huge because it's about ten times larger than Malta.

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    22. Re:Whoever did release this by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      It was almost certainly Israel. Just like the Dubai hit, they don't care who they piss off or what happens and they think the world is a spy caper movie. It's kind of sad, it's not like this is going to do jack shit to stop Iran's nuclear program. I'm sure they thought they had quite the fancy pants, probably playing techno music and dancing around the keyboard while coding it ala Swordfish and other of the spy movies they've seen to much of.

    23. Re:Whoever did release this by binkzz · · Score: 1

      As far as I am concerned, whoever wrote that virus is guilty of endangerment on a scale unimaginable by most people.

      Which makes it possible to even be a terrorist attack by pro Iranian groups. Or Hamas.

      --
      'For we walk by faith, not by sight.' II Corinthians 5:7
    24. Re:Whoever did release this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's jd. You don't get fact checking, you don't get references. You just get shit that's wrong.

  12. I've seen this episode before by joeflies · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It was Star Trek Next Generation - The Vengence Factor. Only one in a million Acamarians have the DNA which this virus was designed to kill.

  13. Yeah, Right... by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah, right. Israel creates this super-secret superworm, attacks Iran with it, after putting their fingerprints all over it just so that they will get caught by the first person to look at it in a text editor. All this knowing that it is going to infect the whole world and everybody is going to be coming after the authors with torches, pitchforks, and blood in their eye.

    Of course, that explains it all.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:Yeah, Right... by Rod+Beauvex · · Score: 1

      I believe it. Israel knows it has the unquestioned support of that crazy America country with all the nukes and looney leaders. So why does it matter to Israel if the rest of the world know it?

    2. Re:Yeah, Right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fortunately, the author(s) wisely removed the commented references to their WMDs and affiliation with whoever wasn't popular in another part of the world. But then again, there may be a master copy out there that "hasn't been tampered with"...

    3. Re:Yeah, Right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're assuming, if they did create the worm, that they would want to hide the fact

      maybe they created it, and they want the Iranians to know they were behind it, but don't want to admit it officially.

    4. Re:Yeah, Right... by Maltheus · · Score: 0, Troll

      Israel has acted with impunity for as long as I can remember. It was only a few months ago that they executed an American citizen in international waters and all the US congress did was issue a statement of support. Obama didn't even request a return of the kidnapped. They sank the USS Liberty and the US military issued a gag order to prevent the soldiers from talking about it. Why wouldn't they see how far they can push it?

    5. Re:Yeah, Right... by LoRdTAW · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is no saying that the virus was stuffed with fake clues pointing to Israel. Who knows where it came from but this is either a read herring (most likely) or someone trying to start a war. Its a very interesting subject you could turn it into a book or movie plot.

    6. Re:Yeah, Right... by Reservoir+Penguin · · Score: 1

      And why not? The recent cloning of western passports later used by an Israeli assasination team was also quickly discovered, and Israel got nothing but a slap on the wrist for it. Seems like Mossad is more about getting it done than hiding the tacks perfectly,

      --
      US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
    7. Re:Yeah, Right... by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      You're joking, right?

      Yeah, right. Like Israel would waltz right into Dubai and wears a bunch of 70's era spy outfits, murders some Hamas guy in an incredibly inept botch job where they are all over the cameras and get busted for using stolen passports of ally countries. All this after knowing that murdering people with cameras all over the place in some clumsy movie caper manner with cameras all over the place will get all their allies pissed off.

      Oh, wait. That actually did happen.

      Hubris. Look that word up.

    8. Re:Yeah, Right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      someone trying to start a war

      Just like the Anthrax attack in the US. That was the key step that convinced oposition to cave.

  14. Also, Elghanian could not have been the only one. by Apuleius · · Score: 1

    A google search for "executed in Iran" and "May 9, 1979" doesn't turn up any other names, but if I recall correctly, by that time Tehran's Evin Prison was already an abbatoir, with many more victims killed. Can any Iranian chime in on this ? By May, weren't the Islamists already massacring the leftists?

  15. You may be on to something ... by AnonymousClown · · Score: 1
    There are also Old Testament references.

    This is turning into something right out of the Art of War

    --
    RIP America

    July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

  16. Ya by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is compounded by the problem that people are presupposing the answer. From the start, it seems people have assumed this MUST be an attack against Iran and thus done by the US or Israel. As such their thought process is "Find evidence of US or Israeli involvement," and not "Try to find out the source of the attack."

    If you look hard enough for evidence of something, you'll often find it, even when there isn't any, particularly when the standard for evidence is low. Same kind of shit with all the 9/11 conspiracy. People doing 9s 11s and so on all over the place. Snopes did a great bit choosing another number and showing how that was all over the place too.

    Sorry, but I'd require a significant amount for than this to be convinced. This isn't evidence, it is speculation at best and conspiracy mongering at worst.

    1. Re:Ya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same kind of shit with all the 9/11 conspiracy. People doing 9s 11s and so on all over the place.

      And, of course, nothing of signifigance happened on any previous Sept 11 that might cause someone to be unhappy with the USA.

      It's one of the first thoughts I has when I saw the planes hitting the WTC

    2. Re:Ya by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well let's make a list of the countries that have the resources to do this and the motivation.
      1 The US.
      2. Israel.
      We know both of their motivations but I can think of a lot more.
      3. India. A nuclear Pakistan is bad enough without a Nuclear Iran.
      4. Russia. Blow up some stuff sell them new stuff. Repeat until rich. Plus Russia has no real desire to have a nuclear Iran on it's door step.
      5. Saudi Arabia. They have the money and no Love for Iran.
      6. France. They where allies with Iraq durring the Iraq Iran war. They don't want Iran to be a member of the Nuclear Club.
      7, Germany. The PLC where made by a German company. They have no desire to see Iran have nukes.
      In fact you can put all of Europe down as have both the motivation and the ability "Okay maybe not Luxembourg" to pull off this attack.
      And most of the Middle East as well has motivation and a team of CS majors with a hacking talent can not be that hard to find.
      8. China. They are now a world power. They do not need Iran trying to stir up trouble.
      9. The UK. I mean really that should be a given.
      So about the only nations with a large industrial base and high levels of education that I would rule out are.
      Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Africa and Brazil. And frankly any one of them could have done it just to defuse the issue and try to stop a nuclear war in the middle east.
      Frankly I don't think that Israel or the US would have put a date in pointing to Israel.
      Now Russia on the other had I could see doing it. But it is all guess work with no proof at this point.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    3. Re:Ya by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Pretty much every Arab nation in the ME has a good reason to want to shut down Iran - the Persians have been dominating the Arabs for millenia. Don't ever rule out the possibility that Iraq/Jordan/Saudi are all willing to let the Israelis be the bad cop in the scenario while working behind the scenes to make sure that they succeed.

    4. Re:Ya by lonecrow · · Score: 1

      This is compounded by the problem that people are presupposing the answer.

      Scientific researchers propose hypotheses as explanations of phenomena, and design experimental studies to test these hypotheses wikipedia.

      Sounds like a sensible approach to me. I propose that Isreal had the means and the motive to conduct such an attack. I further propose that they have conducted this type of preemptive defense in the past.

      Ok, how to test this....examine the code, then invite them over to tea and after plying them with cookies and a few good laughs ask them if they did it.

  17. Really?!? This is front-page quality? by ZuchinniOne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Technical analysis aside, all these Israel claims are based on huge assumptions and zero concrete evidence. Even if Israel did create this virus why would they put references in the code that led back to them?

  18. It's called circumstantial evidence by Zocalo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And it adds up. Besides the "date", admittedly a bit of a stretch as you note, there are also references to "Myrtus" within a path left in the code. Myrtus, a type of myrtle, is possibly a biblical reference to the Book of Esther (Esther was originally called Hadassah - similar to the Hebrew word for myrtle) in which Jewish forces, after unraveling a Persian attack plan, stage a preemptive and successful assault against their adversaries. There is also the level of knowledge required for the targeting of Stuxnet, including highly specific details about its intended target that would have required internal knowledge of the kind that is likely to require espionage to acquire. Finally, there is also a cut-off date of June 24, 2012 when Stuxnet will go dormant. While not unheard of in the world of more conventional botnets, this is decidedly unusual and further points to a nation state's involvement.

    Taking all that together, I think it's fairly reasonable to limit the list of suspects to those countries with a reason to be wary of Iran's nuclear program - of which there are, admittedly, quite a few. However, Israel does have a track record for being decidedly unsubtle when it is being proactive about such things, viz the 2007 air raid on one of Syria's nuclear facilities, or the murder of Mahmoud_al-Mabhouh.

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    1. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by gtall · · Score: 1

      "June 24, 2012" Hey, yer right, isn't this close to the date on the Mayan Calendar when ... when ... err ... something really, really BIG will happen. Coincidence? I think not.

    2. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by Moryath · · Score: 4, Funny

      admittedly a bit of a stretch as you note, there are also references to "Myrtus" within a path left in the code. Myrtus, a type of myrtle, is possibly a biblical reference to the Book of Esther (Esther was originally called Hadassah - similar to the Hebrew word for myrtle)

      So now we're working off the "this word sounds like this word which is another word for this word" theory?

      Lessee. "May" is a synonym with "shall"... which sounds a lot like "challa"... which is a lovely tasty breadstuff usually eaten by... JEWS! AAAUGH! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

      Of course, that's the point of all this meaningless bullshit. You're looking for obscure connections trying to "prove" your own biases. Nothing more.

    3. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by guyminuslife · · Score: 1

      You'd think that if Israel were behind the attack, they would realize they'd be the prime suspect, but I can't fathom why they would want to advertise it. A blackhat hobbyist might, because they're looking for some sort of "look at how smart I am" personal credit, whereas that seems less likely for a government to do.

      The embedded references could just as easily have been planted by someone unaffiliated with Israel, who also knew that Israel would be the prime suspect, and wanted to lead some trail to them. Meaning, if you didn't think the culprit was Israel beforehand, you shouldn't think so now. (Mind you, it probably *was* Israel, but that was already the prevailing theory.)

      It's sort of like this.

      --
      I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
    4. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Funny

      there are also references to "Myrtus" within a path left in the code. Myrtus, a type of myrtle,

      Which is very close to Yertle the Turtle.

      OH
      MY
      GOD

      Dr Seuss authored the virus from beyond the grave!!!!

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    5. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Informative

      there are also references to "Myrtus" within a path left in the code.

      Considering the virus targets the PLCs in SCADA systems where RTUs are standard system components, I'm willing to bet that "myrtus" is short for something like "My RTU Source" rather than an obscure reference to guavas.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    6. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by siddesu · · Score: 1

      "myrtus"? as in, for example, "my RTUs"? Jewish language, you say?

    7. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by dhaines · · Score: 1

      The embedded references could just as easily have been planted by someone unaffiliated with Israel, who also knew that Israel would be the prime suspect, and wanted to lead some trail to them.

      This leads me *away* from thinking it was Israel, because presuming the "clues" are deliberate, any number of parties besides the Israeli government have motivation for planting evidence pointing to Israel.

      Granted, that line of reasoning can get circular real quick, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Israeli government was indeed the source. Still, without further info, this circumstantial evidence provides more questions than answers. And I'm not buying that it was necessarily a state action.

      Whoever created this attack had the ability to effectively frame someone. They could've made it look like anyone – Israel, the US, Poland, Cuba, CBS News.

      That doesn't mean they did frame someone, but it does mean we're naive if we don't consider it. The only thing this "proves," if anything, is that someone wanted Israel or its sympathizers to receive credit/blame. Maybe they wanted exactly what we have now – a strong suspicion without hard proof.

    8. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by LordVader717 · · Score: 1

      You'd think that if Israel were behind the attack, they would realize they'd be the prime suspect, but I can't fathom why they would want to advertise it.

      Deliberate ambiguity.

      A blackhat hobbyist might, because they're looking for some sort of "look at how smart I am" personal credit, whereas that seems less likely for a government to do.

      Probably less likely as the hobbyist will likely face severe criminal charges.

      The embedded references could just as easily have been planted by someone unaffiliated with Israel, who also knew that Israel would be the prime suspect, and wanted to lead some trail to them.

      Certainly. But at this level of game theory such predictions become useless, and we have to rely on the original evidence. Everything atop of that is speculation.

    9. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You'd think that if Israel were behind the attack, they would realize they'd be the prime suspect, but I can't fathom why they would want to advertise it."

      Israel has demonstrated once and again that basically they don't give a damn.

      They are experts on the "double talk" (some cynic one would say they learnt quite well from Goebbels). As long as it is not absolutly in the open, so they allow for their partisans to mud the waters, they probably *want* the world to know what they are able to do if only to build a reputation.

      They will assault vessels at international waters; they will kidnap or assassin people in other countries; they'll abandon their signed international treaties... whatever.

      So, there are clear proofs that this has been an Israeli attack? No, there aren't, probably there will never be. Could the attack come from some other country or organization? Certainly. Does it match the style and capabilities of the Israely secret services? Absolutly.

    10. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by kestasjk · · Score: 1

      This is the string:
      b:\myrtus\src\objfre_w2k_x86\i386\guava.pdb

      Myrtus is the name of an East Med plant, and Guava is a strain of it. It's not like they added it in just to fuck with us, it seems like it was the project name.
      I think we're all looking for clues as to who did it, and if we assume it required government or large business backing Israel are one of a small few likely candidates. Then again it required stealing certificates from two Korean businesses both very close to each other, and it required knowledge of the exact PLC being used in the place that was targeted, both of which are hard to imagine Israeli organizations getting (but who knows, it's an unprecedented worm and deserves lots of attention and analysis).

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    11. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by Dthief · · Score: 1

      So it was the Mayans!

      --
      www.RacquetUp.org - Helping Detroit Youth
    12. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by osu-neko · · Score: 1

      Whoever created this attack had the ability to effectively frame someone. They could've made it look like anyone – Israel, the US, Poland, Cuba, CBS News.

      Well, not really. They could plant whatever clues they want, but the other factors involved regarding the resources and intelligence info that were involved in making it rule out Cuba and CBS, and probably Poland. Were "clues" of that nature embedded into the code, people would simply suspect they were accessories, or victims of code theft, or something that would explain how theirs bits got into the stew when they obviously weren't the ones behind it.

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    13. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably the most sensible thing said in this entire discussion...

    14. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      It's a fair observation, but it can also be disinformation. Insert obscure references to Israel so that people *think* it was Israel.

      You can't trust anything in the worm.

    15. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by tokul · · Score: 1

      viz the 2007 air raid on one of Syria's nuclear facilities

      Wikipedia article says that Israelis bombed empty desert area according to Syria. Sirians should know exactly what was bombed by Jews. :)

    16. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by httptech · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nope, I'm pretty sure it's a reference to guavas, considering the complete path was:

      b:\myrtus\src\objfre_w2k_x86\i386\guava.pdb

    17. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And there was nothing else in those directories?
      It is easy to see a false pattern when everything that might conflict with the pattern has been removed from the picture.

    18. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by thinduke · · Score: 1

      Myrtle is also used in the zoroastrian religion, which was the state religion in Iran before islam, and is still very present in today iranian traditions (like Noruz).

      If there really is something about this "myrtus", maybe it's more about the target than the origin. As others have noted, it's a bit far-fetched to think that the authors would leave a clue about themselves like Hollywood villains.

    19. Re:It's called circumstantial evidence by h4rm0ny · · Score: 1

      Deliberate ambiguity.

      A motive for "deliberate ambiguity" would be to communicate things differently to different audiences. Modern international politics operates on two levels: the public and the state levels. Behaviour is presented differently according to need. For example, when one country wishes to threaten another, at the state level the threat must be understood or there is no purpose to it. At the public level however, no country wishes to be seen threatening another. The obvious strategy therefore is that sufficient evidence be provided that the state can credibly say: "look what we can do / have done" and to make it seem unlikely that any other party could be credited with the action (more on that momentarily). Whilst at the same time the evidence should be uncertain enough that on the public level it is either deniable or easily drowned in accusations of conspiracy theory.

      Whether or not Israel is behind this is unknown. The following factors are things to consider however. Mossad has demonstrated a very advanced level of espionage in Iran and are probably better placed than any other party to know what to target and where except perhaps Russia (who knows?). Israel has both a lot of domestic technical capability as well as both its own Intelligence agencies and, presumably, access to the USA's massive surveillance infrastructure. Any country that intended to "frame" Israel would have to consider the very likely possibility that they would be found out by Israel. You'd have to be a big player to countenance this sort of behaviour. It would certainly do you a great deal of damage in terms of behind the scenes international credibility. And you'd gain little if it were unearthed that Israel had been "framed". On the public level, disinformation is rife. But at the diplomatic level I would think it very likely that if Israel found evidence that they had been framed, they would be able to pass that evidence around in a credible form. Those that wouldn't believe such evidence are already highly opposed to Israel. The rest are privately more open-minded about what might be the truth. And it's the diplomatic level that counts in this case.

      I think our main candidates if we are indeed looking at countries, are either Iran, Russia or Israel. Iran's motive would be propaganda. However, they really don't need to do any demonisation of Israel at the public level domestically and I doubt stirring up the IT press is anything they'd consider wildly worthwhile on the public stage. They'd be unlikely to convince big players like the US or Russia (or *obviously* Israel) and there's little to gain from trying to persuade Israel's own enemies not to like Israel. So Iran is a possibility but seems very unlikely to me. Russia has the means and possibly the Intelligence, but I can't see any great motive for them. I don't think they'd actually want more tension between Iran and Israel and unless there's a lot more to the "conn" than just this virus, I can't see them convincing the US over any Israeli denials. Israel obviously wants to strike out at Iran. They do have some military potential in that regard, but that's very far indeed from being without consequences for them.

      So if it's a country, we can't rule out some mad scheme by some unsuspected player, but there are considerable reasons to suppose if there is a state actor behind this, that it is Israel. Any "hints" are akin to the kid who smashed your windows winking at you behind the policeman's back because he knows you can't prove he did it. The alternative to a state actor is some very well-resourced group. Either some madly dedicated hackers (which is possible) or there's some criminal organization involved. Organized crime does sometimes get involved in State actions, but usually as proxies. I think they'd be mad to get caught up in something like this. Which returns us to the crazily dedicated hackers, perhaps politically or religiously motivated. It's a bit hard to envisage though. Maybe some strongly Isl

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
  19. Re:Really?!? This is front-page quality? by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Exactly. It shows how badly the people analyzing the worm would like it to tie it back to a super-secret Mossad operation. Talk about "confirmation bias"!

  20. Re:Really?!? This is front-page quality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why did they just send an execution squad to kill Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in Dubai in a way that the whole fucking wide world knows it was them... and the agents where even filmed? Well, who knows, perhaps they like the publicity.

  21. Why o why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    would Israel threaten to attack Iran? Oh, that's right: Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism and has threatened to attack Israel.

  22. O'Murchu is the Irish for Murphy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wonder if he is the one that came up with Murphy's law!

  23. How? by Angst+Badger · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Anti-virus experts said O'Murchu's hypothesis about the origins of Stuxnet were plausible, though some continue to wonder how the authors of such a sophisticated piece of malware allowed it to break into the wild and attract attention.

    Seriously? We refer to this kind of programs by names like "worm" and "virus" because they resemble their biological namesakes in that they get into all kinds of places and reproduce. Who wonders about shit like this?

    If Stuxnet was designed by a hostile state to damage Iranian industry, it's quite possible that, lacking any good way to deploy it inside Iran, it was released into the wild in hopes that it would find its way in on its own. Even states like the US and Israel, who probably have at least some operatives inside Iran, would probably prefer to take this approach than to risk compromising their inside operatives.

    While Israel and the US are the most likely nation-state actors, it's worth considering that there are any number of NGOd that are hostile to Iran and would have the resources to hire programmers to build a worm -- if they didn't already have some in-house. It's also possible that this is the work of a lone individual: the idea that it would take a state actor to create a worm is even more laughable than SCO's contention that Linus Torvalds couldn't have possibly written a kernel by himself. And finally, Iran has plenty of competitors and outright enemies in the Islamic world. Pakistan in particular has the technical personnel, a nuclear monopoly within the Islamic world to defend, and an ongoing struggle with Iran over influence in Afghanistan. If I was forced to bet on the question, I'd put my money on Israel, but at the same time, I wouldn't be at all surprised if I lost the bet. Iran has lots of enemies, internal and external. It's almost like one of those cliched murder mysteries where a broadly disliked person is murdered and everyone he knew is a suspect.

    --
    Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
    1. Re:How? by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      It's also possible that this is the work of a lone individual: the idea that it would take a state actor to create a worm is even more laughable than SCO's contention that Linus Torvalds couldn't have possibly written a kernel by himself.

      The reason why the lone gunman source is ruled out, is because this worm relies on several very clever techniques and previously unknown security holes in systems that have very different areas of expertise. In other words, Linus could have written the core of the kernel by himself, but not also a package manager, drivers for a consumer video card, AND factory control software for a nuclear reactor.

      The expertise realms required for developing this worm are varied and non-overlapping. Combine this with zero-day exploits, and it very clearly implies an organized group effort. Furthermore, it appears to selectively targeted to very expensive and rare equipment. This means the authoring group had access to expensive test hardware or environments, and had very specific knowledge of their target. This implies state-level funding, reconnaissance, or research. The amount of time, money, and collaboration that went into this rules out anything done simply for vanity. Very few non-state entities have the motives to facilitate this. You're right that we can't rule out NGOs, but the pool of those with both motive and resources is pretty slim. Most of these are probably backed by governments hostile to Iran; think CIA cover companies and the like. This leads you right back to a nation-state being the most likely culprit.

      Now, it is easy for just about any government to come up with a couple million in cash to fund this kind of operation. No one is arguing only a government could produce A worm, people are arguing that the specific characteristics and complexities of THIS particular worm couldn't possibly have been created by a single individual.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    2. Re:How? by Madsy · · Score: 1

      If Stuxnet was designed by a hostile state to damage Iranian industry, it's quite possible that, lacking any good way to deploy it inside Iran, it was released into the wild in hopes that it would find its way in on its own.

      The infection statistics are against you. 58% of all the infections are inside Iran. Clearly the worm was first released there. Read the report from Symantec. The top infected countries are: Iran 58%, Indonesia 17%, and India: 9%
      The fact that the worm spread to other countries is just collateral damage. It's a balancing game. If you don't infect enough, you won't infect your intended target. If you infect too much, you get collateral damage and potentially expose the worm to the public eye.

  24. The May 9, 1979 reference by Jason+W · · Score: 3, Informative
    For those too lazy to read the dossier:

    Export 16 first checks that the configuration data is valid, after that it checks the value “NTVDM TRACE” in the following registry key:

    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\MS-DOS Emulation

    If this value is equal to 19790509 the threat will exit. This is thought to be an infection marker or a “do not in- fect” marker. If this is set correctly infection will not occur. The value appears to be a date of May 9, 1979. While on May 9, 1979 a variety of historical events occured, according to Wikipedia “Habib Elghanian was executed by a firing squad in Tehran sending shock waves through the closely knit Iranian Jewish community. He was the first Jew and one of the first civilians to be executed by the new Islamic government. This prompted the mass exodus of the once 100,000 member strong Jewish community of Iran which continues to this day.” Symantec cautions readers on drawing any attribution conclusions. Attackers would have the natural desire to implicate another party.

    Next, Stuxnet reads a date from the configuration data (offset 0x8c in the configuration data). If the current date is later than the date in the configuration file then infection will also not occur and the threat will exit. The date found in the current configuration file is June 24, 2012.

    But really, May 9, 1979 being Rosario Dawson's birthday puts this back on the teenager in his basement path to me.

    1. Re:The May 9, 1979 reference by dskoll · · Score: 1

      19790509 in hex is 0x12DFAAD, though. So I think it refers to an Iranian secret agent named "Faad" who created the worm in room 12D of his hotel.

      But actually, 19790509 has only two largish prime factors (1759 and 11251), so it's probably the sooper-secret 25-bit public key of the Iranian Consipiracy Ministry.

      In an even more stunning coincidence, 19790509 is precisely the height of Ayatollah Khomeni in tenths of a micron. Wow! (Well, actually, he wasn't quite that tall... but if you could add platform shoes...)

    2. Re:The May 9, 1979 reference by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      The hacker lost his golden opportunity to use 31337 as the marker. Surely that's a reference to some Jewish holiday. Maybe next time.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    3. Re: The May 9, 1979 reference by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

      If the current date is later than the date in the configuration file then infection will also not occur and the threat will exit. The date found in the current configuration file is June 24, 2012.

      Somebody just didn't want to get blamed for the end of the world.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    4. Re:The May 9, 1979 reference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting.. when I search June 24 2012 the third link on Google is to a "Jewish Calendar" listing it as a Jewish Holiday?

    5. Re:The May 9, 1979 reference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is wayyy too advanced for teenager in a basement, and this coming from someone who read the entire dossier.

  25. False flag by zhilla2 · · Score: 1

    While it could be possible organizations such as Mossad could be behind this, from what I've read about modern espionage, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag sounds equally plausible. Could be even a rival to Siemens. Or good old Ruskys or Chinese or Saudis for some reason. Someone else who would profit from Iran-Israel war? Eskimos? Obama's evil twin? Bush's good twin?
    No way to know really - secret services & black ops people tend to be secretive an stirring that pot is certainly dangerous game.
    This could have been VERY DANGEROUS if those boards went into productions and caused an industrial accident or worse yet, an nuclear one.

    1. Re:False flag by Technician · · Score: 1

      I saw a video of a generator set that was tested to see if the primary safety equipment could save a generator from intentional attempts to cause damage. The youtube video of the test is still online.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJyWngDco3g

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  26. Make it glow by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    The origins of this code could be a mystery for a while. The connection to something in Iran seems clear.
    Different techs and directors then get on the phones/emails within Iran and start getting/requesting more info and better reports.
    Israel Army’s intelligence Unit 8200/Urim then sits back and watches Iran glow with new connections and sites.
    http://cryptome.org/eyeball/ilsig/ilsig-eyeball.htm

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  27. Re:Really?!? This is front-page quality? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    "led back to them?" thinking of eternal 'discovery' news vs internal 'we did it'?
    Think back to USS Liberty, Wrath of God and Spring of Youth and this post 911 talk show comment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_V9seW4W38

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  28. Hang on.... by Matje · · Score: 1

    Assuming the author was born in 1979 AND was born on the 9th of May, you'd have a 1 in 1 chance. Even better odds!!! ;-)

  29. Nice job by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    If I had mod point, I'd try to mod you up to 100.

    See what he did there people? He found something else that fit the rather vague data, that weakly points to a totally different theory. This is even assuming the number there is meant to be a date.

    That is precisely why shit like this is useless: If you look hard enough you will find evidence, even when there is none. I'm sure with a bit of searching, you could find a whole bunch of other shit that happened on that day. Of course you could probably find other things, real or imagined, that the number could stand for, including just a random string of digits.

    This is a very excellent example of how your bias in what you are looking for can cloud what you find, and how easy there are many alternate explanations when you are going for weak "conspiracy theory" level evidence.

  30. Re:It's called bullshit evidence by mangu · · Score: 1

    Other than a James Bond movie, CSI episode, or Dan Brown novel, I can't think of any circumstance in which your arguments could be called evidence.

    Actually, all the bits pointing to Israel should be assumed to be evidence *against* a conspiracy starting in Israel.

    Bits in code aren't like pollen or clay that get accidentally stuck to the culprit's clothing and shoes. It's not like software written in Israel would have any tendency to pick obscure references to Jewish culture.

    Therefore, if there are some unneeded bits in the code that have references to Israel, the most logical assumption is that they were put there in order to draw the suspicion away from the true authors of the malware.

  31. Re:Also, Elghanian could not have been the only on by mr100percent · · Score: 1

    No actually. The leftists were anti-American so the regime kept them around

  32. So you made the mistake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    on purpose? I'm thinking you must be young and haven't learned just how bad a faux pas it is to incorrectly refer to a peoples.

    Cubans are not Mexicans.
    Persians are not Arabs. ...

  33. unabomber by kaoshin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One of Ted Kaczynksi's tactics was leaving false clues in every bomb to purposely mislead investigators into thinking they had a clue. Interesting that the targets here were industrial, and May 9, 1979 is also the anniversary of the second unabomber attack.

    1. Re:unabomber by joeflies · · Score: 3, Informative

      May 9, 1979 is also the anniversary of the second unabomber attack.

      Correction, May 9, 1979 was the date of the second unabomber attack. The anniversaries are the subsequent May 9ths in the years following.

    2. Re:unabomber by Dynedain · · Score: 1

      May 9, 1979 is also the anniversary of the second unabomber attack.

      Guess what? so was May 9, 1980, May 9, 1981, May 9, 1982.....not an interesting connection in the least

      It could just as easily be the birthday of one of the authors.

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    3. Re:unabomber by kaoshin · · Score: 1

      That is of course what I meant to say, but thanks for the correction.

    4. Re:unabomber by kaoshin · · Score: 1

      As dude said, that wasn't what I was trying to say. It was the original date. I think it is interesting so nanny nanny boo boo.

  34. Rosario Dawson did it by mangu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The whole idea could be is that it doesn't prove anything, but still tells everyone who's responsible

    If someone wants to sign their code with a date, the most logical pick would be their birthdate

    If you want to make a veiled threat, you wouldn't pick something that gets hundreds of thousands results in Google. You would try to make your threat clear but deniable

  35. My theory on the September 5th, 1979 reference: by Hartree · · Score: 1

    May 9th 1979. This is the anniversary of the US & USSR signing the Salt 2 treaty, limiting nuclear weapons.

    Thus, the worm is OBVIOUSLY the cooperative work of disaffected former nuclear weapons designers in the US and Russia. They're angry that Iran is trying to build a bomb, and the sanctions on Iran won't let them make lots of money helping them like Abdul Qadeer Khan did.

    And Myrtus is a religious reference to the practice of women wearing myrtle garlands in their hair during the Roman Veneralia festival celebrating the Goddess Venus Verticordia (Venus, the changer of hearts).

    How can this be anything but a clear plea for those placing the sanctions to have a change of heart and allow these worthy weapons designers to support themselves in a thoroughly capitalist manner.

    (If you take this seriously, I truly pity you. ;)

  36. Export 18 - Uninstall by phantomcircuit · · Score: 1

    Did anybody else find it kind of odd that there is uninstall code included?

    1. Re:Export 18 - Uninstall by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Had to pass an ethics board before it was released into the wild :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  37. That still presumes a nation did it by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    Could very easily be private individuals. Why? Who knows? Could be just to cause havoc, that's what many viruses are for. They don't have any point other than to cause trouble. This one is just better at causing trouble than most. Could be some Iran haters/Israel lovers who decided to take matters in to their own hands. They might not have a military but they have computers and so on. Could be Iran wasn't the intended target at all, just that they utterly fail at IT security since they are not very geek friendly (they frown on Atheists and drinkers, which are things geeks commonly are). Maybe a rival company wanted to make Siemens look bad.

    That's the thing is we DO NOT KNOW who wrote this or why. If you start presupposing things, then you are biasing the findings you'll get. You will find what you are looking for if you look hard enough, no matter how wrong that is. You have to start by presupposing nothing, and just looking at the evidence. You then have to see what fits. The answer initially will be "There isn't enough evidence," and that may always be the answer.

    However when you start making guesses as to who did it and searching down those paths, you are not going to have solid results.

    1. Re:That still presumes a nation did it by osu-neko · · Score: 2, Informative

      Could very easily be private individuals. ...

      No, actually, it couldn't very easily be. I suspect you don't know a lot about the subject. I thought the same thing until I heard more about it. Whatever organization created this had quite a bit of time, intelligence (as in information, not smarts, although they had that too), and resources, and they threw millions of dollars worth of it into making this.

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    2. Re:That still presumes a nation did it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why any idiot can use the Virus Creation Lab to build a Stuxnet to infect any control system in the world! All you have to do is download the detailed implementation documentation and source code for the systems. Iran's is actually available on the The Pirate Bay! Simple!

    3. Re:That still presumes a nation did it by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      It is unlikely that a college student did this.
      1. They would have to know what type of PLCs Iran is using.
      2. They would have to have access to the the control system and PLCs to test on.
      It is very unlikely any one person has those resources.
      You know when you are are trying to find out who did something you look for.
      1. Means.
      2. Motive.
      3. Opportunity.

      One should first rule out the most likely before trying the least likely.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  38. Re:False flag, by Hartree · · Score: 1

    Oh, there are lots of possibilities for who might do it. The list of groups and nations who would quietly or not so quietly be very happy to see a deniable dagger stuck in the back of the Iranian nuclear program is quite long.

    I'll just toss up some involving Russia, the US and Saudi Arabia. (disclaimer: I have no particular reason to think they would do this, but as long as conspiracy theories are running rampant here on Slashdot, I'll add fuel to the fire. :)

    If you are a Russian company that is doing engineering on the Bushehr plant, it could be an interesting way to make extra money. Plant a worm to damage the plant and then not only make the original contract money, but charge them a large extra fee for fixing the plant after the sabotage. Make it look like the Israelis did it, and you're home free. (There is speculation that the worm was funneled through Russian contractors doing work on Bushehr.)

    Or, if you're the Russian government, Bushehr has been a sticking point with the Western powers. If it's be taken down by an ostensibly Israeli worm just as it's completed, you've fulfilled your commitment to the Iranians, and removed a point of contention. You could even have negotiated a valuable quid pro quo of some kind in return for that. (So sorry, Iran. We tried to finish the plant we've been delaying on for so long, but the Israelis broke it. Shucky dern... Of course, if we get ticked off at the US again, we could help fix it for a substantial fee. ;)

    (As to possible paybacks: There has been a question of whether there was some quid pro quo for the US, seemingly unilaterally deciding to not put interceptor missiles in Poland. Russia helping scuttle Iranian nuclear ambitions would be a very valuable payback for that. For another tack, the Saudis are very worried about Iran's nuclear ambitions and their influence in OPEC could be very valuable for an oil exporter like Russia.)

  39. Re:Really?!? This is front-page quality? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2, Funny

    Talk about "confirmation bias"!

    Yes - exactly what I was thinking!

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  40. the evidence could be the 'command&control' pa by davFr · · Score: 1
    from TFA :

    Iran has since blocked communications to Stuxnet's command and control infrastructure, he said.

    That is certainly how they traced back to Israeli origins. The virus may call home from time to time, in a certain range of IP.

    --
    RIP Slashdot. I used to love you. dead account - but slashdot wont let me delete it.
  41. Don't they want to make money? by xenn · · Score: 1
  42. Get it over with by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    I am tired of this. Israel, tell the controllers to blow up the plant. If it exists, then lets get rid of it.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  43. Re:Really?!? This is front-page quality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm wondering if Iran actually created this virus for some purpose but it accidentally got into their own systems or was released into them on purpose (at least the fake/dummy/low-level systems they don't care about). That kind of incompetence would be in line with leaving stupid fingerprints in the code like they have found.

  44. Re:It's called bullshit evidence by Zocalo · · Score: 1

    Try a court of law. There's a reason for my use of the word circumstantial before the word evidence.

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
  45. Re:Really?!? This is front-page quality? by PaulMeigh · · Score: 1

    It shows how badly the people analyzing the worm would like it to tie it back to a super-secret Mossad operation.

    ..or how badly the guys from Symantec would like to make the news.

  46. Re:It's called bullshit evidence by osu-neko · · Score: 1

    Bits in code aren't like pollen or clay that get accidentally stuck to the culprit's clothing and shoes.

    Actually, it kinda is, although you have it backwards -- what often happens is bits of info regarding the environment in which the code was developed get accidentally stuck in the code.

    --
    "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
  47. Re:The USA is just a nazi zionist state anyway. by lewko · · Score: 1

    Ever noticed how anti-Semitism and illiteracy go hand in hand?

    It's as though you need to be a fucking moron, to hate Jews with any credibility.

    Every single thing about "dogzdik's" post (even his username) screams DUMB.

    It's a Zionist plot I tell you!

    --
    Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
  48. False flag? by 'Aikanaka · · Score: 1

    False flag operation?

  49. Are they looking at this wrong? by Pichu0102 · · Score: 1

    It seems like they're looking at this from the perspective of "Who, then why, then how".
    For some reason, I feel the correct order of figuring this out should be "Why, then how, then who".
    Why is the hardest part of this. You could easily solve it by saying "It's to damage the Iranian nuclear plant". That's could be a why, but it could also just be the method required for the "how". The why should be attempted first, who would gain from the Iranian facility being damaged, who could risk it going wrong, do they care about it going wrong, what resources are needed, many variables need to be solved before you choose a who or you'll see traces of your predetermined "who" whenever you look for the "why", and "how".

  50. Ah, yes, the world is a scary place isn't it by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Your arguments sound and awfull lot like people who argue 9/11 was a government plot. Why do they argue this? Because they are afraid and can't deal with a world were a random group of individuals can do such a complex thing.

    This is especially amazing as a story running at the same time is about the leaked Intel key. And of course the ongoing story of the PS3 being cracked.

    Random individuals are a lot more resourceful then some people are willing to give them credit for. But blaming a shadow government for it is far easier to cope with because that means at least someone is in charge. In control.

    Those "stolen" certificates also mean nothing. They get "leaked" all the time. Case in point, the Intel key, which was a LOT more valuable then the keys in this worm.

    As for hackers knowing about Siemens... that is so easy and trivial to explain I hard find it worth the effort. But it is PUBLIC knowledge who supplies Iran with its tools. Export bans and all make sure everything has to be declared.

    No, I look deeper and look at the fact this worm was so quickly discovered and so handily easily decoded with all these handy clues pointing to Iran's enemies. Mmm, a virus outbreak in Iran that nobody else notices, spreads uncontrollably yet then is near instantly dissected and points towards Iran's standard scape goats.

    Gosh, how convenient.

    Zero day exploits are a dime a dozen, smart people the same. This is just a worm that worked its magic in a mono-culture. The moment I start thinking "government conspiracy" is when someone reveals anything about the data transferred.

    WHY would Israel do this? They got far better methods available. And they don't need to disable a windows PC of a nuclear reactor office workers. They got reliable aircraft to do that that send a far stronger message. They got plenty of experience with it.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Ah, yes, the world is a scary place isn't it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't see any difference in the opinion of the world between an attack via a subtle mechanism such as a virus delivered weapon and flying airplanes over a country to achieve the same effect? Seems one of them most of the world is profoundly against while the other is going to more palatable to the masses. I reject the notion that Israel would simply choose an overt way to accomplish a task that could be done covertly.

      Consider the boogey-man factor too. Israel would only get one shot at blowing up that place then pressure would start from the rest of the world. That pressure would either really screw up world politics or cause Israel to calm down. The "masked face" of a virus blowing up your infrastructure is a lot worse. When does the next attack come? Is there something else lingering in the systems?

      Iran is so spooked by this incident that they refuse to use the official Siemens tool to remove Stuxnet because of concern that Siemens is just going to give them a new version of Stuxnet via the updates. So Iran is using a home-brew solution to remove a weapon from their control infrastructure for nuclear power (allegedly) systems because they don't trust the manufacturer of the system they are operating. HOLY SHIT THEY ARE FUCKING INSANE. And this is likely to happen again if they keep that up.

    2. Re:Ah, yes, the world is a scary place isn't it by alexo · · Score: 1

      WHY would Israel do this? They got far better methods available. And they don't need to disable a windows PC of a nuclear reactor office workers. They got reliable aircraft to do that that send a far stronger message. They got plenty of experience with it.

      Sending a stronger message via aircraft has the unfortunate side effect of harming/killing innocents that may be otherwise sympathetic to your cause. Contrary to what you think, Israel would rather counter a threat without casualties, if possible.

    3. Re:Ah, yes, the world is a scary place isn't it by CSMoran · · Score: 1

      WHY would Israel do this? They got far better methods available. And they don't need to disable a windows PC of a nuclear reactor office workers. They got reliable aircraft to do that that send a far stronger message.

      Because they are well aware how their PR suffers each time they bomb the nuclear installations in Iran?

      --
      Every end has half a stick.
  51. how can they get info from the binaries ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What I don't get is how can they get info from the binaries of Stuxnet.
    The date it will go dormant OK, the program probably checks for it, but a past date like may 9 1979 ? And what about Myrtus ?

    Btw I would think that the americans coded Stuxnet (they are the only ones that have a full acces to Windows source and the technological (read financial) capacity to build such a complex piece of malware) and asked the Israelis to take the blame for it, as they don't seem to care much about their international reputation.
    Of course it's just a guess.

  52. inside job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, has anyone else suggested that it may have been an inside job? Maybe some rebellious Iranian faction wants to make life difficult for the religious government?

  53. There is ... by bagsta · · Score: 1

    ... also an analysis from F-secure about Stuxnet here.

    --
    Until the skies turn blue...
    Until the air of freedom strikes us...
  54. Why Israel's foreign policy is bullshit by copponex · · Score: 1

    Iran has been threatening Israel since 1979 and has been attacking Israel and Israelis since 1982. Hell Hezbollah is backed, funded and armed by Iran.

    I caught one of Hezbollah's gifts to Israel in 1994 when a 122mm rocket exploded in the north of Israel, so I'm really getting a kick out of your trying to paint everything as Israel's fault.

    When Israel wins a war with outside help from the US, they want to keep the land they conquer without any concessions. When Israel loses a war and their foe has received outside help (however minimal), they decry interference in their affairs. They are like children who just want to get their way.

    I say arm the Palestinians with the same weapons as the Israelis have. Then you won't have to complain about homemade rockets and suicide bombers, and I guarantee you peace would seem like a much more achievable goal for Israeli hawks once they have to deal with people with the means to fight back.

    I am constantly reminded by that bit in the Battle of Algiers:

    REPORTER: Isn't it cowardly to have bombs carried in baskets to public places by Muslim women?
    LARBI BEN M'HIDI: Is it any less cowardly to bomb villages from planes with napalm? Give us your planes, and we'll give you our baskets.

  55. Or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    May 9, 1979 - The U.S. announced that; after seven yars of negotiations, a new draft treaty limiting strategic arms had finally been completed by representatives of the U.S. and the Soviet Union. Though the exact wording of the accord would still have to be worked out by negotiating teams in Geneva, the SALT II treaty went beyond the SALT I agreement, which was signed in 1072 and expired in 1977. If and when SALT II was formally signed by the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. and ratified by the U.S. Senate, negotiations for a SALT III agreement would get under way. Though Carter declared that SALT II would "lessen the danger of nuclear destruction, while safeguarding our military security in a more stable, predictable and peaceful world," it was certain that the U.S. Congress would debate the provisions of the treaty with great intensity before the Senate vote on ratification. (source: The Britannica Archive)

  56. Re:Really?!? This is front-page quality? by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

    Shhhh be quiet! We're trying to find an excuse for our left-brained hatred of Jewry, and don't want anyone to distract us with facts or logic!

    The affinity (and frequent historical collusion) between the Western political Left, Muslims, the bygone Communists of Russia and the National Socialists of Germany is fairly striking: hatred and blaming of the Jews for all/many of their woes; top-down political structures which make people miserable; love for and acceptance of dramatic, glorious, image-invoking rhetoric; and ready acceptance of a Jewish scrapegoat.

    If I were looking for a culprit in this worm, I'd be looking for someone with this shared affinity.

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  57. Fairness?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody suggested or implied Israel can do no wrong. Which speaks volumes about copponex's large bias against Israel.

  58. Israeli software with a Christian date? by AJWM · · Score: 1

    Jews and Muslims each have their own calendar, both quite different and with different starting years from the Christian (okay, now called "Common Era") calendar which this date allegedly is based on.

    So WTF?

    --
    -- Alastair
  59. Re:first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didn't knew George Bush was jew... neither Dick Cheeney.

  60. Re:Ya I know who it was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It was the former governer of Alaska.

    It pales in consequence of what that person could do if there was a true attempt to destroy.

  61. Journalist conclusion, not Symantec by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you read the very illuminating Symantec pdf, you would notice that they do not draw any such conclusion:

    Export 16 first checks that the configuration data is valid, after that it checks the value “NTVDM TRACE” in the following registry key:
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\MS-DOS Emulation
    If this value is equal to 19790509 the threat will exit. This is thought to be an infection marker or a “do not infect” marker. If this is set correctly infection will not occur. The value appears to be a date of May 9, 1979. While on May 9, 1979 a variety of historical events occured, according to Wikipedia “Habib Elghanian was executed by a firing squad in Tehran sending shock waves through the closely knit Iranian Jewish community. He was the first Jew and one of the first civilians to be executed by the new Islamic government. This prompted the mass exodus of the once 100,000 member strong Jewish community of Iran which continues to this day.” Symantec cautions readers on drawing any attribution conclusions. Attackers would have the natural desire to implicate another party.

    It is very common for worms and viruses to have such a simple check/do not infect marker to make it easier to develop & test them, the choice of this particular string is interesting but not conclusive.

    The extremely strong clustering of Stuxnet infections in Iran however makes it very clear that this particular country has been clearly targeted by the malware authors. Due to all the ways it can spread itself, they must also have used multiple attack vectors in order to get it onto as many relevant machines as possible.

    Terje

  62. What does the Jew Community think of others? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject and this information, straight from their own talmud etc.:

    http://www.waylanderskeep.com/2009/12/jewish-talmud-quotes/

    ****

    1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."

    2. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."

    3. Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."

    4. Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly."

    5. Libbre David 37: "If a Jew be called upon to explain any part of the rabbinic books, he ought to give only a false explanation. Who ever will violate this order shall be put to death."

    6. Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."

    7. Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."

    8. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."

    9. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Goyim."

    10. Choschen Hamm 388, 15: "If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."

    11. Choschen Hamm 266,1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the Law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."

    12. Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17: "A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."

    13. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."

    14. Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D: "When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves."

    15. Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L: "Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."

    16. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."

    17. Gad. Shas. 2:2: "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."

    18. Tosefta. Aboda Zara B, 5: "If a goy kills a goy or a Jew, he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy, he is NOT responsible."

    19. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 388: "It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces."

    20. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348: "All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples."

    21. Tosefta, Abda Zara VIII, 5: "How to interpret the word 'robbery.' A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy."

    22. Seph. Jp., 92, 1: "God has given the Jews power over the possessions and blood of all nations."

    23. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156: "When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it."

    24. Schulchan Aruch, Johre Deah, 122: "A Jew is forbidden to drink from a glass of wine which a Gentile has touched, because the touch has made the wine unclean."

    25. Nedarim 23b: "He who desires that none of his vows made during the year be valid, let him stand at the beginning of the year and declare, 'Every vow which I may make in the future shall b

  63. Re:Really?!? This is front-page quality? by Syobon · · Score: 1
    Yes, exactly, that's the so-called-and-prized 'common sense' working right?. I see a lot people talking about their lack nowadays, yes its a huge cultural problem, but think outside it, if you are Israel you won't care if some uneducated, powerless, commonsense lacked people would think about your country nefarious intentions. So this leave us to this point: every people who read news know Israel is whining and crying about Iran nuclear "ambitions" (what is an utter hypocrisy since Israel itself has nukes) - people who support Israel and their agenda won't care if Israel made this virus, they would applaud - if Israel wanted the other kind of educated people (those who don't buy their agenda and aren't largely influenced my media) to not think this is a Zionist movement of war going on they would really puts those clues into the code, so when or if some experienced western researched publish to world those "clues" people like you would say:

    Technical analysis aside, all these Israel claims are based on huge assumptions and zero concrete evidence. Even if Israel did create this virus why would they put references in the code that led back to them?

    (why would they? duh right?), no offense just my thoughts.