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Comic Sales Soar After Artist Engages 4chan Pirates

An anonymous reader writes "Steve Lieber, the artist behind the graphic novel Underground, discovered that someone on 4chan had scanned and posted the entire comic. Rather than complaining, he joined the conversation, chatting with the 4channers about the comic... and the next day he saw his sales jump to unheard-of levels, much higher than he'd seen even when the comic book was reviewed on popular sites like Boing Boing."

31 of 305 comments (clear)

  1. Imagine that! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Engaging your customer base is good for business...

    1. Re:Imagine that! by Shikaku · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Something the RIAA/MPAA will never learn.

    2. Re:Imagine that! by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They might... they just might. The fact is, they need to read the book "Raving Fans." When your customers are your fans, they will overlook higher prices, problems with delivery and all sorts of things with the exception of poor quality and/or poor service.

    3. Re:Imagine that! by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Engaging your customer base is good for business...

      People looking for entertainment spend more money when they have more fun. That's one of the main reasons actual losses due to piracy aren't calculatable.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    4. Re:Imagine that! by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Engaging customer base = good. However, simply because something works on the micro level doesn't mean it scales to the macro level. I somehow doubt that having hundreds of artists flood 4chan would result in all of them getting increases in sales.

      It is kind of like "if i stand up at a baseball game I can see better, therefore if everyone stands up at the baseball game everyone can see better".

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    5. Re:Imagine that! by denis-The-menace · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They already use lawyers and Congress to "engage" their customer base. why do it directly?

      Their true customers are the shareholders of the companies that are member of the MAFIAA, not consumers.

      --
      Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
    6. Re:Imagine that! by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Engaging customer base = good. However, simply because something works on the micro level doesn't mean it scales to the macro level. I somehow doubt that having hundreds of artists flood 4chan would result in all of them getting increases in sales.

      If this were a new thing you might have a point. However, in Japan they have their own equivalent of comic-con and people make their own fan-zines and sell them for a profit. It's technically illegal but they never get shut down. The reason is that excitement over a franchise is still excitement over a franchise. This was known over 10 years ago but nobody over here is paying attention to it. It's amusing to me because the same country that's known for its $4 cups of coffee is under the impression people will go to extremes to avoid paying money for stuff.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    7. Re:Imagine that! by Pojut · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Here you go. Look in the "shout" section for a link to the torrent.

      It's all a combination of spacey ambient ("Transient Unknown" project), drone ("Implied Reality" project), and chilled-out head nodding stuff ("Lost on the Way to the Laundry" project). I have a LOT more than what is on there, but that's what I've publicly released so far.

    8. Re:Imagine that! by TrekkieGod · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is one of the reasons why I release all the music I make on last.fm and in a torrent...both of which will be freely available and supported by me when the time comes to put my stuff up for sale.

      Granted, I'm not trying to make a living off it, but still...the more access people have to it...

      The article had a quote by the author that he posted on the 4chan boards that really got to me:

      As for putting all the pages up here. What can I say? I get that this is how things go, and I'm trying to live in the same decade as everyone else. If nothing else, I'm flattered that someone thought enough of the book to take the time to scan and post it.

      From that quote, I noticed two things: he didn't expect that he would get a huge boost in sales from the event, he was just kinda resigned that you can't stop piracy. However, the most important part was the whole bit about being flattered that people liked his book. Sometimes you forget this caliber of artist still exists: the guy who cares about the work more than the money. The money is nice, and I'm happy when the artists can survive and even get rich off it. However, that shouldn't be the motivation for what they do.

      So, thanks for what you do, keeping the real art alive. I went to your website, and found the links to last.fm to your music, and I will take a listen. Obviously I don't know if I'll enjoy it, but if I do, you can count me on your list of customers as soon as they go on sale.

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

    9. Re:Imagine that! by zill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The last time RIAA "engaged" me I was forced to pay $6000 and sign a stack of paper half my height.

    10. Re:Imagine that! by Tumbleweed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >> Something the RIAA/MPAA will never learn.
      > They might... they just might.

      This depends entirely on what you think the RIAA is doing. I don't believe, based on their activities, that they are interested in merely increasing profit. They seem to be about _control_ of the content. Their long-term goal is increasing profit, sure, but I'm pretty sure they want to entirely control the content, end-to-end, for their long-term benefit.

      You listen to a song on the radio, the ratio station pays, and you probably pay for the ability to listen to it digitally, too. You hear Happy Birthday at a birthday party, somebody's gotta pay. You want to use a 5 second snippet of a song on your kid's soccer game video, you gotta pay. You play grandma's favorite song at her wake, gotta pay. Can't read the lyrics online unless you pay. Want to cover someone else's song in a free video online? Show us the money. Sample a song with your smartphone so you can go buy it online - gotta pay for that sample before you can go buy the song. Sorry, buy the right to play the song for your own individual self on that particular device you downloaded it to. Gotta pay, can't move it to another device, no stripping the DRM off it so you can even MOVE it to another device. Gotta pay.

      BITCH BETTER HAVE MY MONEY!

    11. Re:Imagine that! by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Or the forward to any of Cory Doctorow's books. From Makers:

      There's a dangerous group of anti-copyright activists out there who pose a clear and present danger to the future of authors and publishing. They have no respect for property or laws. What's more, they're powerful and organized, and have the ears of lawmakers and the press.

      I'm speaking, of course, of the legal departments at ebook publishers.

      These people don't believe in copyright law. Copyright law says that when you buy a book, you own it. You can give it away, you can lend it, you can pass it on to your descendants or donate it to the local homeless shelter. Owning books has been around for longer than publishing books has. Copyright law has always recognized your right to own your books. When copyright laws are made -- by elected officials, acting for the public good -- they always safeguard this right.

      But ebook publishers don't respect copyright law, and they don't believe in your right to own property. Instead, they say that when you "buy" an ebook, you're really only licensing that book, and that copyright law is superseded by the thousands of farcical, abusive words in the license agreement you click through on the way to sealing the deal. (Of course, the button on their website says, "Buy this book" and they talk about "Ebook sales" at conferences -- no one says, "License this book for your Kindle" or "Total licenses of ebooks are up from 0.00001% of all publishing to 0.0001% of all publishing, a 100-fold increase!")

      I say to hell with them. You bought it, you own it. I believe in copyright law's guarantee of ownership in your books.

      So you own this ebook. The license agreement (see below), is from Creative Commons and it gives you even more rights than you get to a regular book. Every word of it is a gift, not a confiscation. Enjoy.

      What do I want from you in return? Read the book. Tell your friends. Review it on Amazon or at your local bookseller. Bring it to your bookclub. Assign it to your students (older students, please -- that sex scene is a scorcher) (now I've got your attention, don't I?). As Woody Guthrie wrote:

      "This song is Copyrighted in U.S., under Seal of Copyright #154085, for a period of 28 years, and anybody caught singin' it without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don't give a dern. Publish it. Write it. Sing it. Swing to it. Yodel it. We wrote it, that's all we wanted to do."

      Oh yeah. Also: if you like it, buy it or donate a copy to a worthy, cash-strapped institution.

      Why am I doing this? Because my problem isn't piracy, it's obscurity (thanks, @timoreilly for this awesome aphorism). Because free ebooks sell print books. Because I copied my ass off when I was 17 and grew up to spend practically every discretionary cent I have on books when I became an adult. Because I can't stop you from sharing it (zeroes and ones aren't ever going to get harder to copy); and because readers have shared the books they loved forever; so I might as well enlist you to the cause.

      Emphasis mine. Oh, and BTW, the book is available for free at the linked page, in many ereader formats. It's a pretty good read, except he uses too many hyphens (parking-lot, shopping-center, etc)

    12. Re:Imagine that! by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Steam / Valve is one of the best examples I can give. I would rather pay $5 more and get it from Steam than on the shelf.

      Are you getting paid to spew this bullshit? I have non-Steam games which autoupdate, "automatic install" is a lie, automatic configure is too (and I speak from experience) and every game I own can be installed on multiple computers.

      Steam is an attack on First Sale law.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  2. Good? by whisper_jeff · · Score: 5, Funny

    4chan can use their powers for good?

    Um... I just don't know how to process that information...

    1. Re:Good? by jack2000 · · Score: 4, Informative

      You do know 4chan has a big comics board right? People on it are pretty heavily into comics. If the world is out that the author cares enough to discuss with his fans the non hardcore fans will hear good things from the hardcore crowd and also buy.

    2. Re:Good? by jollyreaper · · Score: 5, Insightful

      4chan can use their powers for good?

      Um... I just don't know how to process that information...

      4chan strikes me a bit more like the classic greek gods, capricious, capable of granting blessings and curses on a whim.

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    3. Re:Good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      4chan strikes me a bit more like the classic greek gods, capricious, capable of granting blessings and curses on a whim.

      Along with a steady dose of bestiality and incest.

    4. Re:Good? by Even+on+Slashdot+FOE · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well, he did say Greek gods, amirite?

  3. I think exposure to piracy normalizes sales. by feepness · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Those with high sales would see them reduce, and relative unknowns would see them increase.

    Thus the resistance at the high end, and embracing at the lower end.

  4. What Monty Python Did by HannethCom · · Score: 4, Informative

    This kind of reminds me of what Monty Python creating their own YouTube channel and their sales going up 23,000%. http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/kit-eaton/technomix/monty-python-youtube-move-boosts-dvd-sales-23000

    --
    Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.
  5. Re:piracy is better than obscurity by greyline · · Score: 5, Funny

    Who?

  6. Example by imthesponge · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple is a good example of this phenomenon.

  7. New graph in 3...2...1... by Orgasmatron · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can't wait to see his sales graph after he adds the /. effect. How do we stack up to 4chan in terms of economic power?

    I'm ordering the TPB. I got back into comics about a year ago after dropping out for a decade. Wish I'd noticed this when it came out.

    --
    See that "Preview" button?
  8. So that's what happens... by RealGrouchy · · Score: 4, Funny

    So that's what happens when you feed the trolls...

    - RG>

    --
    Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
  9. Cryptomnesia by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

    Ah, but as shares concentrate into the hands of the few and powerful,but sales dwindle

    Then the music publishers affiliated with the major record labels will likely start making accusations of cryptomnesia, or accidental infringement of copyright in a work published years ago, against indie songwriters and recording artists. See Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music for an example of how it could go down.

  10. Somebody should mention by Kevin108 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The B&W chapter 1 preview PDF on the author's site is NSFW.

    --

    It's a perfect time for being wasted.
    A perfect time to watch the stars.
    - Burden Brothers, "Beautiful Night"
  11. Re:Wow, the Slashdot piracy party is at it again by hesiod · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, because they got to see the artwork and read the story, and then engage with the author immediately afterward, as a surprise. If he just showed up out of the blue, a bunch of jerks would be all "who the hell are you, and why should we care", etc. Others would think he was an imposter, and a ton more would assume it's a crappy marketing ploy.

  12. A little perspective by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Steve Lieber is a nice guy and a talented artist, and his comics are worth reading, but let's put this scenario into a little perspective. This is not a case of Steve posting to 4chan and then all the little 4channers running out to buy his comics.

    Point 1: Underground could already be downloaded for free from Lieber's Web site, so it being "pirated" on 4chan wasn't that big of a coup.

    Point 2: Comic book companies do not track sales on a daily basis. The sales that went "through the roof" were sales of signed print editions from Lieber's Etsy store.

    So rather than a massive vindication of 4chan, "engaging your audience," or anything else, I see this more as a case of: A.) creator makes a product available online; B.) author manages (if inadvertently) to find an effective marketing channel for said product; C.) people who spend most of their time online notice the marketing and buy the product.

    Pretty simple, really. Engaging his audience helped, but he would have been happy to engage anybody that came his way to begin with. The problem is, "build it and they will come" doesn't really work on the Web. Lieber lucked out that someone else noticed him and chose to promote his product in a way that he couldn't on his own. He was smart enough to pounce on the opportunity.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
  13. Re:Well I'll be by tverbeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It wasn't the free sharing of this book that boosted its sales. What boosted sales was that the artist got tipped off about it, and had a chance to introduce himself and interact with the pirates, and put a face on "the copyright holder" for them. He was no longer some non-person they could continue to not give a fuck about; he was a human being (and a pretty cool one) whose creativity should be rewarded. It's easy to rip off some anonymous corporation like "Disney" or "Sony" or even "Image Comics", but not so easy to rip off "Steve Lieber" and his co-creator "Jeff Parker". Lieber met them where they lived, and gently poked a hole in their disregard for him as a creator by being a real person. It's a good lesson for other creators... but it'd be nice if more consumers were willing to meet the creators on their own home field as well. If you like a person's work, don't just "share" it with 100,000 of your closest friends: bring them to the creator's web site or Facebook page or whatever, so he has a chance to interact with them like a human being. An artist shouldn't have to engage in detective work to ferret out the people who like his work; if they really like it, they should act like real fans (rather than leeches) and reach out to him.

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
  14. Re:goodie by clone53421 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, you’re missing the point. With a physical object, like a house, someone else moving in uninvited would detract from your ability to use the house. With information, it doesn’t, unless you’re a snob... somebody else having a copy of your painting doesn’t interfere with your ability to enjoy it, unless your enjoyment of it was partly based on the fact that nobody else had it in the first place.

    It’s more like they copied the blueprint for your house and used it to design virtual houses in SecondLife, which became so popular that people who would otherwise never have known about you came and wanted to buy copies of your blueprint to build real houses.

    --
    Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  15. Bah by Arancaytar · · Score: 4, Funny

    These sales CANNOT compare to the BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of dollars he would have earned had these evil pirates not stolen his property.

    (signed, the RIAA)