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Comic Sales Soar After Artist Engages 4chan Pirates
An anonymous reader writes "Steve Lieber, the artist behind the graphic novel Underground, discovered that someone on 4chan had scanned and posted the entire comic. Rather than complaining, he joined the conversation, chatting with the 4channers about the comic... and the next day he saw his sales jump to unheard-of levels, much higher than he'd seen even when the comic book was reviewed on popular sites like Boing Boing."
Engaging your customer base is good for business...
4chan can use their powers for good?
Um... I just don't know how to process that information...
Talking with your userbase boosts sales. News at eleven.
Those with high sales would see them reduce, and relative unknowns would see them increase.
Thus the resistance at the high end, and embracing at the lower end.
Fighting 4Chan is a bad idea. But exploiting them for money? That's new! Will this trend extend to other vendors such as Doritos or Mr. Pibb? Maybe that infamous "Dollar Menu? I'd hit it!" ad that seems to advocation burgersex was actually aimed at 4Chan.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
Thus the resistance at the high end, and embracing at the lower end.
Almost sounds like electronics.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Windows sales: post to piratebay
Thanks in advance, although, a cashier's check in the amount of Euro 100,000,000 would help.
Yours In Krasnoyarsk,
Kilgore Trout
It's the adjectival form of datum, duh.
Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
and not at all stealing.
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
As Cory Doctorow says "my biggest threat as an author isn't piracy, it's obscurity."
What better way to increase sales than making sure that everyone has heard of your work?
...the comic was not about Gene Simmons?
is people like gene simmons and lars ulrich trying to convince executives that the real reason their sales suck is because of piracy. I guess this pretty much destroys that line of thinking.
This kind of reminds me of what Monty Python creating their own YouTube channel and their sales going up 23,000%. http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/kit-eaton/technomix/monty-python-youtube-move-boosts-dvd-sales-23000
Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.
From the graph that got posted, it looks like they DDoSed his bank account.
... how many of the sales were completed using credit card numbers that turned out to be stolen? (grin)
The summary tries to spin this story as "theft increases sales". In reality the theft just prompted the author to do the smart thing and talk to potential customers.
Apple is a good example of this phenomenon.
Treating your customers with respect is the best way to see them respect you right back, often with money and sales. RIAA needs to seriously take notice of this.
Apparently, he even posted the scans on his web site. On that note, can anyone recommend me a good comic viewer that will browse/open this type of .cbt files on Windows, or even better a comic viewer that could browse/open this type of .cbt files on my Evo (Android phone). There are so many manga/comic viewers out there, I'd rather not waste my time trying a different bunch of them.
Also, people give out free samples all the time to create a "buzz" about a product that will likely fly under the radar. I don't see anything new here.
Most pirated material is stuff people already know about and want. Do you think if Adobe started giving away Photoshop people would suddenly desire it more than they already do?
I can't wait to see his sales graph after he adds the /. effect. How do we stack up to 4chan in terms of economic power?
I'm ordering the TPB. I got back into comics about a year ago after dropping out for a decade. Wish I'd noticed this when it came out.
See that "Preview" button?
So that's what happens when you feed the trolls...
- RG>
Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
Sure, this vastly increased sales-- the artist's direct sales of the trade paperback on his own Etsy. We have no sense at all of the scale of impact on overall sales. In effect, this was just the best opportunity he had had to drive traffic to his own site. Would this have even shown up as a blip in total overall sales? Did Amazon see a similar peak?
My Photography - http://ian-x.com
The Deathlings (comic) - http://thedeathlings.com
Shhhhh. Logic.
Ah, but as shares concentrate into the hands of the few and powerful,but sales dwindle
Then the music publishers affiliated with the major record labels will likely start making accusations of cryptomnesia, or accidental infringement of copyright in a work published years ago, against indie songwriters and recording artists. See Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music for an example of how it could go down.
It was on /co/nsumerism.
On that note, can anyone recommend me a good comic viewer that will browse/open this type of .cbt files on Windows
You could open cbt/cbr/cbz files in 7-Zip. They're just archives in commonly used formats, with different extensions to indicate that the archive contains paged media such as photos or comics.
You do know 4chan has a big comics board right? People on it are pretty heavily into comics.
Unless, of course, the characters are uplifted animals. Then you get the anti-furry memes going.
The B&W chapter 1 preview PDF on the author's site is NSFW.
It's a perfect time for being wasted.
A perfect time to watch the stars.
- Burden Brothers, "Beautiful Night"
will 4chan bless me with more rain if i sacrifice my goat?
Start with "goat sacrifice", and then sacrifice the letters in the middle of the second word.
[the game]
No, because they got to see the artwork and read the story, and then engage with the author immediately afterward, as a surprise. If he just showed up out of the blue, a bunch of jerks would be all "who the hell are you, and why should we care", etc. Others would think he was an imposter, and a ton more would assume it's a crappy marketing ploy.
Steve Lieber is a nice guy and a talented artist, and his comics are worth reading, but let's put this scenario into a little perspective. This is not a case of Steve posting to 4chan and then all the little 4channers running out to buy his comics.
Point 1: Underground could already be downloaded for free from Lieber's Web site, so it being "pirated" on 4chan wasn't that big of a coup.
Point 2: Comic book companies do not track sales on a daily basis. The sales that went "through the roof" were sales of signed print editions from Lieber's Etsy store.
So rather than a massive vindication of 4chan, "engaging your audience," or anything else, I see this more as a case of: A.) creator makes a product available online; B.) author manages (if inadvertently) to find an effective marketing channel for said product; C.) people who spend most of their time online notice the marketing and buy the product.
Pretty simple, really. Engaging his audience helped, but he would have been happy to engage anybody that came his way to begin with. The problem is, "build it and they will come" doesn't really work on the Web. Lieber lucked out that someone else noticed him and chose to promote his product in a way that he couldn't on his own. He was smart enough to pounce on the opportunity.
Breakfast served all day!
K.T., I find your advocacy of the distribution of dangerous viruses to unsuspecting cybercitizens to be reprehensible.
That is not... entirely true. I recall Disney was not amused when someone published a doujin with Micky and Minnie Mouse 'going at it.' (Right, 50 years of celibacy?) And don't you know it, Disney's landsharks came knocking so fast it made their heads spin.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
I think we're missing the point. 4chan (likley /co/) purchased, reviewed, and raved about a non-cp, gore or furry comic. That's quite impressive! In all honesty, I am doubting the validity of this because as we all know, such a cause and effect with the given circumstances is not possible around the chan. It requires filth, so much so that not even a mountain of dial-soap could be of any help. That's why I am dismissing this article by calling it fluff in attempt to get more sales.
It wasn't the free sharing of this book that boosted its sales. What boosted sales was that the artist got tipped off about it, and had a chance to introduce himself and interact with the pirates, and put a face on "the copyright holder" for them. He was no longer some non-person they could continue to not give a fuck about; he was a human being (and a pretty cool one) whose creativity should be rewarded. It's easy to rip off some anonymous corporation like "Disney" or "Sony" or even "Image Comics", but not so easy to rip off "Steve Lieber" and his co-creator "Jeff Parker". Lieber met them where they lived, and gently poked a hole in their disregard for him as a creator by being a real person. It's a good lesson for other creators... but it'd be nice if more consumers were willing to meet the creators on their own home field as well. If you like a person's work, don't just "share" it with 100,000 of your closest friends: bring them to the creator's web site or Facebook page or whatever, so he has a chance to interact with them like a human being. An artist shouldn't have to engage in detective work to ferret out the people who like his work; if they really like it, they should act like real fans (rather than leeches) and reach out to him.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
While that is great for the artist and the chans, it's missing the point. It's a bit like someone breaking into your house, and while you are away to buy new locks, a fire breaks out. "See!", the burglar says, "good thing I broke in, huh?" You do not have permission to steal/post/copy/upload other people's works without their permission. Yes, even if it all works out in the end.
It can be go tiem now plees?
> Don't you think his sales would be better had they *not* copied his comic *and* he made an appearance on their forums?
Except "Mohammed" here didn't quite do that now did he? He needed to be dragged into it by circumstance.
Art mongers need to get over their megalomania.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
inb4 : RIAA/MPAA trolling 4chan...
Tits or GTFO.
Segmentation Fault in "Life, Universe and Everything" at line 42. Don't Panic.
I think this post by Steve clinched it for the lurkers. http://undergroundthecomic.com/4chan_thread_20614483.html#20642617
Indeed. This seems like a one time thing. People are jumping up and down to prove a point. It's like when fans of Jericho sent in their nuts or fans of Chuck went to Subway, or even the election of a recent president. Everyone was enthusiastic at first and did what they had to in order to prove their point, but then, as time went on and either apathy or exhaustion set in, everything reverted back to business (or politics) as usual.
But then I realized the cable was blue, so I only gave it one star. I hate blue.
There's a big difference between 4chan and /b/. I got hooked on /b/ for a while, and i think it did real damage. I'm sorta recovered. But only partially because I still post on /. so I have a ways to go.
Is that you?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
This shows that sometimes you will do better when you're actually nice to potential customers, and don't try to ram things down their throats or P. T. Barnum them.
These sales CANNOT compare to the BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of dollars he would have earned had these evil pirates not stolen his property.
(signed, the RIAA)
Then the music publishers affiliated with the major record labels will likely start making accusations of cryptomnesia, or accidental infringement of copyright in a work published years ago, against indie songwriters and recording artists. See Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music for an example of how it could go down.
Remind me, which was the indie band/songwriter in that dispute?
I know what you're getting at: Bright Tunes wasn't the clear-cut Big Four vs. indie case that I fear is likely to happen. But even though Bright Tunes was between two established companies, it produced case law that a major music publisher can use against an up and coming indie band.
1. Draw crappy comics 2. Post it on 4chan 3. ??? 4. Profit!
...for a community whose lockstep mantra much of the time is "correlation is not causation."
I'm not trying to troll, but all we can really say is that there was a spike in sales (and the original article doesn't make clear just how much of a spike--I can't get to the author's blog from work) following a conversation on 4chan. Those two pieces of information, by themselves, don't seem to me to mean all that much. I would love to believe (as many here seem to) that they translate directly into "if you respond to pirates on internet forums they will all rush out and buy your stuff," but I think we need a lot more information before it's reasonable to draw that conclusion.
If anyone in the industry is listening, hear this.
The last three video games I purchased were purchased after first torrenting them.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, will give me more incentive to buy something then a test drive--a test drive that ends with positive results.
You have nothing to fear if you create a worthy product.
And, in terms of reviews of a product, nothing speaks like seed/leech numbers...at least until someone starts gaming THAT as well.
Steve just reminds us that we all have a choice--you can keep paddling into that wave, or you can hop on your board and go for a ride. Either way, that wave is headed for the beach and it just might be the best one of the day.
People underestimate the power of not being a dick.
Seems Steve Lieber has an explanation for why his sales increased (and it's not generalizable to other media - e.g. music, software, movies - which is "native" to digital format):
"The problem is this: I hate looking at the kind of comics I do on a screen. I read plenty of funny comics on the web, but adventure stories just don't work for me online. Heavy brush and ink line art art seems ill-suited for monitors, and the storytelling rhythm is sort of *off*, somehow. I think it's an inferior experience for the reader. Or at least it is for me, but when I'm creating a comic, I'm have to go by my own tastes."
This is why I also think books have done better with piracy than other media - people don't like reading books on their computer screen. Hence, people like Doctorow, who want to sing the praises of piracy, are ignorant of why their media is different from other people's media. I'd find it funny how clueless they are about their own situation if they weren't out there trolling people who make other media.
Seems Steve Lieber has an explanation for why his sales increased (and it's not generalizable to other media - e.g. music, software, movies - which is "native" to digital format):
"The problem is this: I hate looking at the kind of comics I do on a screen. I read plenty of funny comics on the web, but adventure stories just don't work for me online. Heavy brush and ink line art art seems ill-suited for monitors, and the storytelling rhythm is sort of *off*, somehow. I think it's an inferior experience for the reader. Or at least it is for me, but when I'm creating a comic, I'm have to go by my own tastes."
This is why I also think books have done better with piracy than other media - people don't like reading books on their computer screen. Hence, people like Doctorow, who want to sing the praises of piracy, are ignorant of why their media is different from other people's media. I'd find it funny how clueless they are about their own situation if they weren't out there trolling people who make other media.
the author of that comic did something outside the box and it profited him greatly. now if the music and movie industries would realize the same market and offer their wares for a lot less, they would sell more, alienate a lot less and still profit.
Understanding is much like a 3-edged-sword. in this: there are always 2 sides and the truth.
Pirates may not buy, but they WILL talk. Everyone has an advertising budget...consider piracy to be part of that budget. There's no way to tell if they would have bought it anyway.
True
Not so,
What the artist did is called "good marketing".
If the artist had of run in and shouted "Pirates, ha, I'll sue you, and you and your grandma, I'll dig up her grandma and sue her after I finish having my sweet, sweet way with her corpse" the people would have just said "what a douche, I'll just copy his crap".
Instead he walked in and said "so... you like my work, lets talk about it". From this people got the impression that he was creating things because he wanted to, not to make a quick buck. It's not about guilting them into it as you've inferred. If it were that easy the RIAA would have a picture of a kitten with a gun to it's head on every street corner to remind everyone of the "real" cost of copyright infringement. His sales increased because people liked him, this is part of the reason Valve is doing so well, people like them.
This is good marketing.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
"data" is plural???? *head explodes*
weinersmith
"His sales increased because people liked him,"
That's what I meant by showing them that he was a real person. Acting like the RIAA (the evil fantasy that pirates hold in their heads to justify the way they treat creators) wouldn't have helped. Call the emotional reaction what you wish; it was a response to him as a person.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
DDoSed
That word...I do not think it means what you think it means.