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Satellites Spy On Black Friday Shoppers

MojoKid writes "Those satellites in space don't just take spy pictures. On this Black Friday 2010, they actually took pictures of you, and your rush to Black Friday shopping deals. The research is being done to see what consumer demand this year means for retail stocks. The trend, so far, has been favorable. The companies involved in this are Remote Sensing Metrics and Digital Globe. Remote Sensing Metrics is a Chicago-based consulting firm that analyzes the satellite imagery. In turn, it purchases those images from Colorado-based company Digital Globe, which operates its own satellites."

171 comments

  1. DHS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Took control of amazon.

  2. would ya look at that..... by metalmaster · · Score: 1

    Stores with product X for price Y have crowd patterns like Z

    1. Re:would ya look at that..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It just seems like this is an incredibly overly complicated and expensive solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. The major retailers will all release their numbers, and they'll be significantly more indicative than this worthless satellite data. Mall parking lot fill rates don't mean shit, because even if they give a reasonable estimation of how many people were shopping, they give no indication of dollars spent per shopper. Last year didn't see significantly smaller crowds, but it saw a huge drop in money spent. More shoppers on Black Friday just means more bargain hunters, and lots of bargain hunters during a recession doesn't really mean an improving economy.

    2. Re:would ya look at that..... by jhigh · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I have to say that I don't get the point of this, either. What are they trying to learn with images that they can't learn with the raw numerical data?

      --
      Social Engineering Expert: Because there is no patch for stupidity.
    3. Re:would ya look at that..... by JustOK · · Score: 1

      reading the rfids...from SPAAAACE

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    4. Re:would ya look at that..... by Kagura · · Score: 1

      Woah nelly... I wonder if SIGINT spy satellites can do this? Powerful transceiver should mean readable RFIDs...

  3. One more reason by Roland+Piquepaille · · Score: 5, Insightful

    to stay away from the mindless consumerism that defines today's society.

    My immediate family and I don't buy presents for any of the "holiday seasons". We offer ourselves things of no merchant value, such as poems, good time and love.

    Whenever I go to town, I see people moving from shop to shop like drones, trying hard to figure out what they're going to buy next. We used to be like that, but we aren't anymore. We use money to live (food, basic transportation, reasonable housing) and our hands and heads for entertainment.

    1. Re:One more reason by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While I respect a modicum of separation from "mindless consumerism", I'm unconvinced of the premise you advance - and do not see that having your car show up as two to four off-white pixels in a satellite image of the Wal-Mart parking lot is any cause for alarm whatsoever.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    2. Re:One more reason by masmullin · · Score: 1

      My immediate family and I don't buy presents for any of the "holiday seasons". We offer ourselves things of no merchant value, such as poems, good time and love.

      Your Christmas sounds pretty shitty, well except for the love part... That sounds kinky.

    3. Re:One more reason by russotto · · Score: 1

      do not see that having your car show up as two to four off-white pixels in a satellite image of the Wal-Mart parking lot is any cause for alarm whatsoever

      WHAT? That means someone stole my car! And painted it white!

    4. Re:One more reason by Roland+Piquepaille · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not the number of pixels that represents my car, or the danger (or lack thereof) for my liberties, it's the fact that those who want to sell us things treat us like cattle: our consuming habits are under intense scrutiny all of the time, and we are fed a form of brainwashing called "advertising" as a result of the marketing studies. And the worst is, it works: people consume, consume and consume all the time, and start consuming even more when certain dates come (like Black Friday).

      I chose to stop consuming whenever possible, to not be a cattle.

    5. Re:One more reason by Roland+Piquepaille · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your Christmas sounds pretty shitty, well except for the love part... That sounds kinky.

      That's because you equate Christmas and consuming.

      Let me tell you how my family and I stopped buying stuff for Christmas: we used to rush downtown to buy each other presents, before the 24th, just like you. Then we figured we could buy more shit for our money if we exchanged promises at xmas eve, and actually bought said shit after mid-january, when the unsold articles would be discounted. We did that for several years, and ended up realizing we has just as much fun without the shit on xmas eve, and we could perhaps do without buying the shit at all. And that's what we've been doing ever since.

      It works, you should give it a try. If you, your wife or your kids end up unhappy, you can always promise to buy the shit later when it's cheaper.

    6. Re:One more reason by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

      Personally I do like the premise the OP advances. Instead of getting more stuff of little to no real value, they are making memories that will last longer than any item made of fiber, metal, or inorganic hydrocarbon compounds. By putting real thought and care into their choice for presents, they are retaining a sense of humanity that today's society dearly lacks.

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
    7. Re:One more reason by brusk · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Even anti-consumption is a form of consumption.

      --
      .sig withheld by request
    8. Re:One more reason by davester666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hate to think of how much the police department would make by selling the information they gather by driving through mall parking lots, scanning every single license plate looking for stolen cars...

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    9. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you hate America?

      Seriously though, cheers. Sounds like a good system.

    10. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is anyone else confused here? I thought that Roland died in 2009. Wasn't there a /. article on it?

    11. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That "even anti-blah is blah" pattern works for a lot of things, but not consumption. If you are not consuming, you are not consuming. Full stop.

    12. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We used to be like that, but we aren't anymore. We use money to live (food, basic transportation, reasonable housing) and our hands and heads for entertainment.

      Yet you own and use a computer. Gf.

    13. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      How so? Are the "good times" the OP enjoys giving poetry and love any more meaningful than the "good times" people have giving material goods?

      If you don't like materialism, don't participate. But there's no need look down on people for enjoying themselves.

    14. Re:One more reason by clarkkent09 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That fits perfectly with the environmentalist goal of de-civilizing the society. I hope your next step is to grow your own food in your backyard, drink rainwater, and light fire with two stones (or a stone and your head if you prefer). What you call 'mindless consumerism' is a sign of a healthy and prosperous society with plenty of goods that most people want and can afford, there is nothing wrong with it.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    15. Re:One more reason by aztektum · · Score: 1

      ohnoitsroland

      --
      :: aztek ::
      No sig for you!!
    16. Re:One more reason by pspahn · · Score: 1

      They don't aready? WTF are they so busy doing?

      --
      Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
    17. Re:One more reason by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      That "even anti-blah is blah" pattern works for a lot of things, but not consumption. If you are not consuming, you are not consuming. Full stop.

      If you are not consuming, you are consuming nothing.
      Ha ha! Language tricks!

    18. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut the fuck up you fucking cocksucker.

    19. Re:One more reason by jhigh · · Score: 1

      You obviously don't have kids. There is nothing comparable to the joy that one receives from watching the look on your kid's face(s) on Christmas morning. Anti-consumerism is all fine and good, but on Christmas Eve, I want my kids giggling and shaking with excitement while I try to calm them down enough to fall asleep. On Christmas morning, I want to watch them squealing and opening presents.

      So, yeah, I'm a consumer at Christmas time.

      --
      Social Engineering Expert: Because there is no patch for stupidity.
    20. Re:One more reason by jhigh · · Score: 1

      Wow, I feel bad for your kids if you have any...

      --
      Social Engineering Expert: Because there is no patch for stupidity.
    21. Re:One more reason by John+Hasler · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      > If you are not consuming... ...you are dead.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    22. Re:One more reason by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then you've already indoctorinated your kids to the consumerist side of Christmas. There is plenty to be excited about without expensive presents. Teach your kids to enjoy the finer things in life (like each other's company) more than some toy.

      You're right, I'm not a parent, but if I were, I hope my wife and I would be able to celebrate Christmas in some truly meaningful way. (:

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
    23. Re:One more reason by causality · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How so? Are the "good times" the OP enjoys giving poetry and love any more meaningful than the "good times" people have giving material goods?

      If you don't like materialism, don't participate. But there's no need look down on people for enjoying themselves.

      You say that as though materialism and quality time with loved ones are two equally valid positions. They're not.

      Further, "don't participate" is good advice. The hurdle is that materialism is the dominant culture. You have to go against the grain and actively resist numerous influences and pressures and expectations in order to shun the material method of celebrating what were originally historical and religious holidays. This is by design, since sadly most Americans don't have the backbone to do that even if they wanted to. Caving in to a dominant culture not because it's what you deliberately embrace, but because it is difficult to do otherwise, well that's a very strange definition of "enjoying themselves".

      It's a domination of the mind for the purpose of profit, just like all marketing and most facets of culture. A domination, not an offering of an inherently superior choice. If PR and marketing are done masterfully, then those influenced by them can't imagine any other realistic way of doing things.

      Sometime during the last 100 years we made this transition from an economy based on utility and thriftiness and some degree of national self-sufficiency to massive globalism and consumerism based on this kind of madness. The people who fight for places in line at 3am at stores on Black Friday resemble nothing so closely as trained dogs taught to respond to cues. You place this on equal footing with wholesome enjoyment of family, quality time, and love? As I said, it's madness.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    24. Re:One more reason by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

      Thank you, for so eloquently stating your position (one which I firmly agree with).

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
    25. Re:One more reason by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 1

      Ugh, smug alert!

      Your post reminds me of the classic "I don't watch TV, it's all crap.". Good times and love are great and are sometimes accompanied by purchased gifts. Many are fun and useful gifts beyond the ability of an individual to craft. Your black and white sneer at anything offered by a merchant is a disturbing brand of fanaticism. If beating your chest about how "enlightened" you are gets you off, more power to you. The rest of us choose to enjoy the good things produced by the skill of our fellow man.

    26. Re:One more reason by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      So, what device are you using to post this? And how did you get it without paying for it? Or is this not entertainment?

    27. Re:One more reason by Atraxen · · Score: 1

      Actually, no it's not... See a comment up the page.

      If anything, Ohnoitsaguywhoistrolling... If it's the real Roland, your zombie-hunting fantasies are about to come true.

      --
      Be careful of your thoughts; they could become words at any minute...
    28. Re:One more reason by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 1

      Wow, nice leap. Faux Roland never said one word about environmentalism. As for environmentalism's "goal" of de-civilizing society I can only assume that is some kind of inside joke among those who prefer to see the worlds resources polluted beyond the point of being able to actually sustain civilization.

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    29. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought you were dead, or something

    30. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Christmas must suck at your house.

    31. Re:One more reason by clarkkent09 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is far more evidence that the goal of at least some leading environmentalists is de-civilizing the society and a return to a primitive society (for example, a bestselling environmentalist author: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTYe8WloF1U ) than that there are people who would "prefer" to see world polluted beyond the point of being able to sustain a civilization. I don't know anybody who would want that.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    32. Re:One more reason by scourfish · · Score: 1

      I've seen people camp out for Black Friday deals. They stampede and push and shove and curse, you know, in the spirit of the holidays, in order to get a cheap laptop that even I wouldn't want to pay $200 for; As far as your cattle remark goes, sometimes people are treated how they act.

    33. Re:One more reason by apoc.famine · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'll piggyback on that. Best memories for me of Christmas are the cooking, eating, and drinking. Honestly, I don't recall a single gift that I've gotten over the last decade or two. I do recall getting drunk with my sisters while making up girlie drinks in the blender. I do recall my dad taking over christmas dinner to make Yorkshire pudding every year - the smell of them, the taste.... I recall my grandparents driving over each year, older than the last. I recall taking in a couple of Danish exchange students who had nowhere to go for Christmas. Treating them to a night of drinking, a day of cinnamon sticky buns, omelets, hot coffee and christmas music. Generic presents, then a feast of roast beef, lamb, and sides. After dessert, cleaning off the table and playing assorted games. (None made by Milton Bradley or Hasboro)

      Sure, my family does Christmas. But 95% of it is the people, food, and drinks. It doesn't matter if you're family or not - the exchange students were good examples of that. We get together, and have an awesome time. Everyone pitches in to help cook, haul wood through the snow for the fire, shovel walks, and keep the party going. Gifts? Meh. We give some, we get some. But they really are just a token attempt to celebrate the "American" way. We could easily do without them, and nobody would really notice. It'd be that much more time and money spent on food and drink, and enjoying our time together.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    34. Re:One more reason by dmartin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why?

      If you just go to the first part of what he said - you can get more stuff for the same amount of money if you buy on a date that is slightly later than the date everyone else uses - it is completely rational. There is artificial demand in the market because everyone is attempting to do the same thing. It is perfectly rational to delay a few days to get more stuff -- or to spend less on Christmas and more on the kids on small things for the rest of the year. The *only* reason that the 25th is special is because religious people celebrate that particular day. It doesn't (and arguably shouldn't) have to occur on the same day as "present day". I see this as a reason to be mildly envious of his kids: they are learning rational behavior and budgeting skills.

      As Roland went on to say, they found after trying this that the presents didn't actually matter. If that is a decision they have reached collectively then why should they care what some random stranger such as yourself may think? Not to be rude, but I think that I would worry about your kids more, feeling they have to please and conform.

    35. Re:One more reason by feidaykin · · Score: 1

      For a dystopian look at the inevitable progression of endless consumerism, read Brave New World. It's a good book on multiple levels, but when I first read it 10 years ago, I thought the satire of consumerism was a bit extreme, bordering even on the absurd. Sadly, I don't think so anymore.

      --

      "To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking

    36. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I'm not a parent, but if I were

      Obviously you were never a kid either. Toys and presents mean a _lot_ to kids. Your kid may appreciate a hug and kind word, but there is no real substitute for a present.

      There really is this surreal feeling that this day is special, and everyone will be happy and there will be presents and then there will be playing with presents, and maybe we'll stay up late. I remember that vividly, and my family never even celebrated Christmas (we had New Year in the Soviet Union - significantly less "consumerist").

    37. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you can plan ahead and buy 100 pounds of Lego used on Ebay and store it in the garage. My kids 3rd or 4th Christmas is gonna be insane. And yes I also plan to do the promise thing in order to help teach my kids deferred gratification.

      I love how these holidays equate to "treat people nicely for one day and get away with not treating them nicely for the test of the year" for most North Americans now.

    38. Re:One more reason by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      Hippies. They say they want to change the world, but all they do is smoke pot and smell bad.

    39. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I feel bad for _your_ kids because their father is a fool who lacks the intelligence to
      think about how he conducts his life in any sort of critical manner.

      And I've got a lot more perspective than you do, chum.

      I am 66 years old and have raised children and have also watched my parents die.
      I know what matters in life, whereas you don't have a clue.

    40. Re:One more reason by korean.ian · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Umm, I'm a parent, and my 5 year old has already said she doesn't want too many presents this year, and especially not toys. She wants art supplies (like playdo and drawing paper and paint). She's said numerous times "I have too many toys.", which is surprising, cause she doesn't have that many really. She doesn't express jealousy at toys other kids have, so it's not her just trying to please mom and dad (who are not really in a position financially to but tons of toys anyways). We did the mega-consumerist Christmas last year and to be honest, about halfway through, most of the kids (extended family) were starting to get bored.

      And to be honest, your purchasing lots of cheap plastic crap for your kids, regardless of where it's made, does nothing to help the environment or society.

    41. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not the original poster, but I do grow a lot of my own food in the back and front yards, and I do drink rainwater collected on my own roof (and flush toilets with it, and water the garden with it). And while I don't light fires with two stones I do keep the house warm during winter by burning branches pruned from our many trees, dried and chopped for the purpose.

      Anyhow, "mindless consumerism" isn't a sign of a healthy and prosperous society. A healthy and prosperous society is one in which people have enough to be healthy and content, and yes this does involve being able to buy consumer good when they are needed. Mindless consumerism, on the other hand, is a sign of a sick society that has been duped into believing that buying just one more "thing" (iphone, 3d tv, new car, orange skin, whatever) will make everything better just like on the advertisement, and this is a bad thing, both environmentally and for the happiness of the poor sots caught up in the consumer net.

    42. Re:One more reason by brbrbrad · · Score: 1

      people consume, consume and consume all the time

      And then we wonder why we have an obesity epidemic. Hint: it's all the consuming.

    43. Re:One more reason by Foobar_ · · Score: 1

      As Roland went on to say

      Oh no, it isn't Roland.

    44. Re:One more reason by anguirus.x · · Score: 1

      There is a reason to consume entertainment, and that is that you deprive your soul of nourishment by limiting yourself to only those creative delicacies which you create yourself. Why not enjoy the creative endeavors of your fellow man?

    45. Re:One more reason by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 1

      So, in response to my pointing out your straw man argument you put up another straw man argument? And the same one at that?!

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    46. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2x4 pixels AT THE MOMENT!

      You can bet your daughter that as soon as satellites get financially viable better resolution the companies will be trying to identify you via license plate numbers from a side-angle shot.

    47. Re:One more reason by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      (like Black Friday).

      I had to literally go to Wikipedia and find out what Black Friday is. Apparently it's a "go and buy and buy and buy all kinds of things, whether you need it or not" - day. No wonder the average US citizen weighs more than a truck. And yes, they indeed do seem to behave like cattle: you tell them something and they believe it, without anyone bothering to even think about it.

      (There is no Black Friday or anything similar here so I obviously had never even heard of it before)

    48. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      to stay away from the mindless consumerism that defines today's society.

      My immediate family and I don't buy presents for any of the "holiday seasons". We offer ourselves things of no merchant value, such as poems, good time and love.

      Whenever I go to town, I see people moving from shop to shop like drones, trying hard to figure out what they're going to buy next. We used to be like that, but we aren't anymore. We use money to live (food, basic transportation, reasonable housing) and our hands and heads for entertainment.

      Oh cool. Homeless people have computers now.

    49. Re:One more reason by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      to stay away from the mindless consumerism that defines today's society.

      My immediate family and I don't buy presents for any of the "holiday seasons". We offer ourselves things of no merchant value, such as

      Pinko Commie subversive prevrets. Y'all should hang. Not hang your heads in shame, just hang from the Strange Fruit tree, with the rest of the "fruits". [/sarcasm]

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    50. Re:One more reason by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You've bought so fully into the lie of consumerism that you can't see anything else as being fulfilling for you or your family. That's a failure on society, sir; and yes, you and your wife for going along with it. Sorry, but I count that as an epic failure. One to be avoided on my part.

      If that's what makes you and your family happy, so be it, but do not think for one moment that it's right to feed that mentality.

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
    51. Re:One more reason by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > I'm not a parent, but if I were

      Obviously you were never a kid either. Toys and presents mean a _lot_ to kids. Your kid may appreciate a hug and kind word, but there is no real substitute for a present.

      If the presents mean that much more to any child we may have, then I've failed my child. Period.

      I remember being a kid and it wasn't about the presents for me (which is probably good because we weren't well off). I loved getting them, but like another poster: I don't remember a single one. I remember time spent with my paternal grandparents (my grandfather died in 1996). I remember time spent with my maternal grandmother (my maternal grandfather died from alcoholism around the time I was born). I remember time spent with my parents, sister, aunts, uncles and cousins.

      All of this belies what the whole meaning for the season is, anyway. It's about the birth of Christ (the Christ in Christmas), while Easter is about His death (and not some stupid bunny that hides hard-boiled chicken eggs) and the fulfillment of prophecy through His death.

      So yeah, if you're buying into the consumerism, and then using our the selfishness of a child to support it, you're celebrating the wrong thing and you've failed your child. I don't care if you don't agree with me. The truth is the truth.

      Christmas isn't about presents. It isn't about who gets the most stuff. It's about the birth of a savior this world desperately needs but continues to reject. It's about family and love. The presents don't even come close to filling that role. They're a cheap and easy alternative to the true meaning of Christmas (Matthew 1:18-24).

      I'll probably be modded into oblivion for the next couple of weeks, but whatever.

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
    52. Re:One more reason by ian_from_brisbane · · Score: 1

      There is no Black Friday or anything similar here

      I had to go to Wikipedia and find out where 'here' is.

    53. Re:One more reason by RadioElectric · · Score: 1

      To go further: when you're in a culture that is as materialist as the one we have in the west, there is NO escape from it. There are two (both flawed) escapes that people claim to work.

      The first is the classic "Oh, I've retired to my house in the countryside now. We don't spend much money, get all of our vegetables locally, etc.", i.e. those people who think they have climbed their way out of it. In reality they are just worms in the apple of materialism. They have consumed a certain amount of "living space" for themselves and while they are in it (and stay away from the edges) they can feel free.

      The second is the hermit who goes and lives in the wilderness. Then you have completely redefined yourself in terms of your relationship with materialism, which is no escape at all.

    54. Re:One more reason by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Once one draw back enough from the details, one find that modern corporations are not really that different from soviet style communism. Both require(d) some level of predictability, resulting in massive data gathering.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    55. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a drag there's no +1, Beautifully Stated mod, so here's a +1, Insightful.

    56. Re:One more reason by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Someone brute force the password?

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    57. Re:One more reason by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Someone brute force the password?

      NVM.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    58. Re:One more reason by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Hippies. They say they want to change the world, but all they do is smoke pot and smell bad.

      So the difference between hippies and libertarians is soap?

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    59. Re:One more reason by vegiVamp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I do agree with the general trend of your sentiments, but when you're linking the meaning of christmas and easter to christian events, then you're buying in to religion, if you'll excuse the harsh paraphrasing.

      It's your full right to believe in that, but I personally don't; for me it's about celebrating the seasonal changes and the cycle of life - as it was way before various religions mapped their own meanings on those inconceivably ancient times of celebration. What is now christmas celebrates the return of light (Jesus is born, bringing salvation from the dark times); and what is now easter celebrates the return of life to the world - and yes, Jesus is reborn. Like all times of celebration, it is good to spend them with loved ones.

      It doesn't bother me that you prefer your own fairytale to mine, though - your message is just as benevolent. Just don't try to ram it down my throat as being the one true meaning.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    60. Re:One more reason by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      > a healthy and prosperous society with plenty of goods that most people want and can afford

      I can't help but wonder how you've missed the debt crisis most of this healthy and prosperous society has been in for the last years.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    61. Re:One more reason by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      Well, I guess it all depends on what you define as "de-civilizing". If that entails you not being allowed to rape the planet simply because you feel you're entitled to a fuel-guzzling monster SUV to go fetch a loaf of bread at the bakery around the corner, then yeah, the world can damn well use a good de-civilizing.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    62. Re:One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like your way but I very much doubt how you portray it: I doubt your family were 'like that' and are now frugal. Those mindless sheeps buying presents would see your (or my) way of life as humiliation.

    63. Re:One more reason by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 0

      Well considering it is, at its heart, a uniquely Christian holiday with a date co-opted from Pagan culture...

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
    64. Re:One more reason by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 0

      Please don't generalize. (:

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
    65. Re:One more reason by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      Only because the christians did a pretty good job of forcibly and/or sneakily converting the world. Who knows, maybe we'll all be having ramadam in fifty years.

      As I said, each to his own fairy tail, just don't stick the "uniquely christian" bit to me.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    66. Re:One more reason by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 0

      But it's true. Whether you like it or not. (:

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
    67. Re:One more reason by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      *sigh*

      Yes, the birth of your personal savior is something that only you celebrate, thus making it a "uniquely christian" holiday.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
  4. no surprise by cryoman23 · · Score: 0

    are we really surprised that they take pictures of us from space?

    --
    epic sig..... ya i got nothing
    1. Re:no surprise by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I am moderately surprised that the fairly low-resolution data you would get from a visual surveillance satellite(ie. you can tell how full the parking lot is on Black Friday. How many people are there to buy el-cheapo crap to satisfy their Christmas obligations without going further into debt, and how many are there to pick up toys just because they can? Can you tell the difference between my 'Insignia' brand bottom-of-the-barrel-but-good-enough-to-watch-football-with-my-browskies LCD TV and a top of the line cinemaphile disposable-income-eater of similar size just by the box, from space?), even with sophisticated machine vision algorithms or more analysts than the National Reconnaissance Office, would be competitive with consumer metrics available from other sources.

      I'm guessing that most Black Friday purchases are not made with cash and the ones that are are probably comparatively small and could be estimated just by putting a few flunkies near a statistically relevant sample of checkout lines. This would mean that any of the major credit/debit card guys should have a much better, and much more machine readable, trace on consumer spending. Retailers, of course, many of whom are publically traded and nearing the end of their fiscal year, obviously know what they sold; and I'm guessing that the guys in the shipping sector know reasonably well how much stuff had to be shlepped from the pacific rim to refill Wally World after the event.

      Pictures from space have been a given for years now; they just seem like a sloppy source of data compared to all the others that already exist...

    2. Re:no surprise by Local+ID10T · · Score: 1

      I am moderately surprised that the fairly low-resolution data you would get from a visual surveillance satellite(ie. you can tell how full the parking lot is on Black Friday. How many people are there to buy el-cheapo crap to satisfy their Christmas obligations without going further into debt, and how many are there to pick up toys just because they can? Can you tell the difference between my 'Insignia' brand bottom-of-the-barrel-but-good-enough-to-watch-football-with-my-browskies LCD TV and a top of the line cinemaphile disposable-income-eater of similar size just by the box, from space?), even with sophisticated machine vision algorithms or more analysts than the National Reconnaissance Office, would be competitive with consumer metrics available from other sources.

      I have personally seen non-classified photos from reconnaissance satellites where I could clearly read street signs and license plates.

      I can't speak to the value of such photos for marketing information, but I can attest to the quality of the images themselves.

      --
      "You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
    3. Re:no surprise by sed+quid+in+infernos · · Score: 1

      This is available the next day. It's not as if they won't refine their estimates once better information becomes available.

    4. Re:no surprise by Zakabog · · Score: 1

      I have personally seen non-classified photos from reconnaissance satellites where I could clearly read street signs and license plates.

      Those couldn't have been from satellites, it would require a huge mirror to be able to clearly read anything like a street sign or a license plate. Those photos were more likely from something like a plane.

    5. Re:no surprise by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Can you tell the difference between my 'Insignia' brand bottom-of-the-barrel-but-good-enough-to-watch-football-with-my-browskies LCD TV and a top of the line cinemaphile disposable-income-eater of similar size just by the box, from space?)

      If it's a big enough TV, then yes, yes we can.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    6. Re:no surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      my-browskies

      Is that what you named your eyebrows?

    7. Re:no surprise by trancemission · · Score: 0

      Here in the UK most major retailers have 'loyalty' cards and clubcards to track/analyse 'consumers' - credit/debit card companies can only really see how much you spent in a certain shop [store] - over time I would imagine you can build a nice 'consumer profile' from these cards [hence the personalised offers you get]

      Many people in the UK are more than willing to agree to their behavior being logged and analysed - and sometimes you get free shit......

    8. Re:no surprise by Nyeerrmm · · Score: 1

      I guarantee you haven't seen this. Look up the diffraction limit, it makes this basically impossible from orbit.

    9. Re:no surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RFID

  5. To everyone under 30 by ldconfig · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I and us older folks messed up. I am very sorry you may never know what freedom really is. ld

    --
    The spelling and grammar police can kiss my ass
    1. Re:To everyone under 30 by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'm not sure how you have connected "Freedom" with "protection from having your car's top photographed from a satellite while it's sitting in the parking lot of a Target next to thousands of others from which it is generally indistinguishable". Please explain.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    2. Re:To everyone under 30 by jordan314 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I get a creepy feeling from this too. I've always favored military intelligence over war, and I supported the largest US spy satellite launch last week. But I was hoping our satellite technology wouldn't be flagrantly used to spy on our own citizens, especially for things as mundane as holiday shopping.

    3. Re:To everyone under 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      These images are collected by privately owned satellites, not the National Reconnaissance Office.

    4. Re:To everyone under 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This, my friend, is the first time a /. comment has made me cry.

      Someone under 30.

    5. Re:To everyone under 30 by ffreeloader · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are now so used to being spied on that you can't even comprehend what the world was like without it.

      It was a much friendlier and relaxed place to live. Nobody had the right to sift through your life just to see what they could sell you and the government wasn't into monitoring every move you made and jailing you for the least offense. That was a society that had much more freedom.

      I can remember when getting caught lighting up your tires wasn't an automatic reckless driving ticket and a several hundred dollar fine as well as a large increase in your insurance rates. Cops were much more human and forgiving for they remembered what it was like to be young and dumb and weren't out to disrupt your life for your first mistake. Most of them, as long as you didn't try to lie to them, would let you go with a warning even if they caught you making a pretty serious mistake. I've been let walk after burning rubber for half a city block and reaching close to 80mp in a 25mph zone right in front of sheriff's deputy I didn't see. He asked me what happened and I explained it to him: I was showing for a couple of very good looking young women and that it was a first for me to do that in town as my hotrodding and racing was done out of town. My honesty got me a warning instead of a ticket and some time in jail. Try that today and see what happens to you.

      You had the freedom to make mistakes and learn from them without being severely punished. If you didn't learn, well, that was your problem and you could expect to have the book thrown at you the second time. During high school most of us used to carry pocket knives and a lot of us had guns in the trunks of our cars because we liked to go plinking after school. I remember pranks such as wiring the urinal drain in the faculty men's bathroom to a Model T coil not getting anyone kicked out of school, and intentional small explosions in chemistry class going unpunished. I also knew a guy who blew a foot deep hole in the football field with a home made pipe bomb who got nothing more than a 2 day suspension. He wasn't hauled off to jail and prosecuted for terrorism. In fact the issue never was reported to the police and this was done inside city limits.

      Today's young people don't know what liberty is as we live in a society in which we are watched 24/7 and our liberties are fast disappearing. Not much individual freedom is left even when compared to eras such as the 60's and 70's, let alone the 1800's, but those of you who didn't live in those decades, and aren't students of American history, will never understand what has been lost. It's a paradigm you can't grasp because you've never experienced it.

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    6. Re:To everyone under 30 by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Privacy is a freedom. It's gone. This particular one isn't that bad, assuming it's Google Earth level imagery. But it is another example of the constant surveillance we are under.

      Compare your grandparents stories about all the things they did that were wrong or illegal that they got away with, realized was wrong, and learned from that. And with the push for complete surveillance will result in fewer people getting away with such things, people don't get the "oops" factor they used to have to let them learn from mistakes without others adding in a lifetime of punishment for every mistake. And that freedom is gone too.

      Do you really think we have as much freedom now as there was in the USA 100 years ago?

    7. Re:To everyone under 30 by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "I've been let walk after burning rubber for half a city block and reaching close to 80mp in a 25mph zone right in front of sheriff's deputy I didn't see. He asked me what happened and I explained it to him: I was showing for a couple of very good looking young women and that it was a first for me to do that in town as my hotrodding and racing was done out of town. My honesty got me a warning instead of a ticket and some time in jail."

      So you're whining that you can't drive wrecklessly down a street and possibly kill people. You're the reason why we can't have nice things.

    8. Re:To everyone under 30 by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Who launched them? I'm not sure what the situation is like now, but it used to be that you could buy the best satellite imagery from Soviet spy satellites that were being leased out by a bankrupt former Soviet Union. I did some work on an MoD site in the late '90s, and they had a great picture of the entire site in their reception. I asked about this, since I'd read that it was illegal to take aerial photographs of the area - apparently for a few hundred quid over the Internet they got a Russian satellite to fly overhead on a clear day and take high resolution pictures. I think a lot of the older satellites were sold off to private concerns a couple of years later.

      So, even if they're privately owned satellites, they may well have been launched with taxpayer money (on one side of the iron curtain or the other) for the purpose of spying on the evil communists / capitalists.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:To everyone under 30 by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      These images are collected by privately owned satellites, not the National Reconnaissance Office.

      Out of curiosity - do you think that if a crime/terror attack or any other event of interest happens in the screened area, can the police/FBI/CIA/NSA/... subpoena the pictures?

    10. Re:To everyone under 30 by ffreeloader · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "I've been let walk after burning rubber for half a city block and reaching close to 80mp in a 25mph zone right in front of sheriff's deputy I didn't see. He asked me what happened and I explained it to him: I was showing for a couple of very good looking young women and that it was a first for me to do that in town as my hotrodding and racing was done out of town. My honesty got me a warning instead of a ticket and some time in jail."

      So you're whining that you can't drive wrecklessly down a street and possibly kill people. You're the reason why we can't have nice things.

      Sorry, but that's the dumbest response I've seen in a while. How you managed to take that from my post is beyond me.

      Government wasn't out to punish every infraction. They were out to teach if they thought you were capable of learning. They were human and recognized that they themselves made mistakes. They wouldn't let you get by with making the same mistakes multiple times, but a one-time infraction wasn't enough to always severely punish you.

      Funny how back then it was much easier to get ahead, in spite of how you claim I'm the reason you can't have nice things. Where you drew that logical fallacy from is beyond me. It's some of the worst logic I've ever seen. Funny how you think humanity in a less intrusive government led to a bad economy. The reality is just the opposite. Big brother watching you and wanting to control every aspect of your life is the reason our country is going broke.

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    11. Re:To everyone under 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      With regards to driving, Reckless used to mean that a judgment call (by the Officer) would be made determining if what you were doing was actually done with abandon.

      Now it means "X miles per hour over the limit, pay this large fine"

      The officers themselves are no longer free to make judgment calls, because they themselves are under surveillance.

    12. Re:To everyone under 30 by Nyeerrmm · · Score: 1

      Sure police can, but it's probably not terribly useful. Commercial satellite imagery is limited to .15 meter resolution by ITAR restrictions, and has to be targeted in advance. Great for tracking crowds, not for police work.

    13. Re:To everyone under 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They could've done this on a much smaller scale with digital cameras too, retard. This isn't anywhere close to "big brother watching you", it's a fucking study.

    14. Re:To everyone under 30 by farnsworth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So you're whining that you can't drive wrecklessly down a street and possibly kill people. You're the reason why we can't have nice things.

      The reason we can't have nice things is not because people are human and make mistakes and do dumb things. The reason we can't have nice things is because recently the US has turned into a police state and a nanny state. Kids aren't allowed to walk to the park, zero-tolerance/three-strikes for utterly minor "crimes", and being treated like a criminal for wanting to travel around the country are all new things that have come to be over the last few decades. To pretty much any average US citizen (Helen Lovejoys aside) who is paying attention, this is an obvious and blatant turn for the worse.

      People being human is not preventing you from having nice things. The current environment that is dehumanizing everybody indiscriminately is.

      --

      There aint no pancake so thin it doesn't have two sides.

    15. Re:To everyone under 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These images are collected by privately owned satellites, not the National Reconnaissance Office.

      Out of curiosity - do you think that if a crime/terror attack or any other event of interest happens in the screened area, can the police/FBI/CIA/NSA/... subpoena the pictures?

      They wouldn't bother because they have their own that are much better quality.

    16. Re:To everyone under 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not much individual freedom is left even when compared to eras such as the 60's and 70's, let alone the 1800's

      Let me guess... you're white, right?

    17. Re:To everyone under 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Government wasn't out to punish every infraction unless the Sheriff had a personal dislike for you. It went both ways. You'd be harassed for all sorts of nonsense that you hadn't done if the local authorities felt like it. The changing years have perhaps brought a little more visibility to the workings of the system and less leeway to individual officers (and more incentive to be less forgiving due to recognition of revenue streams), but recently my daughter still got just a warning after driving recklessly, plus a gentle reminder to renew her license tab. The officer even helped push her out of the ditch she'd driven into.

      For whatever you may say about government intrusion and loss of freedom, it's good to remember that the big, ominous organization is still just a group of people. That means there are a number of real nasty jokers (somehow that organization does seem to attract more than it's fair share), but most of them are still reasonable, willing to understand and forgive minor troubles. A lot of them think they are helping make life better for all of us.

    18. Re:To everyone under 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I first heard this story on the news, it was prefaced by the explanation of the term "Black Friday" -- the day retailers go from "in the red" to "in the black".
      My initial reaction was "Wouldn't you get into the black sooner if you didn't have the overhead of running spy satellites?"

    19. Re:To everyone under 30 by gottabeme · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Government wasn't out to punish every infraction. They were out to teach if they thought you were capable of learning.

      Sorry, but that's the dumbest response I've seen in a while. Where you drew that logical fallacy from is beyond me. It's some of the worst logic I've ever seen.

      --
      "Those who consume the bulk of goods are those who make them. We must never forget this secret of our prosperity."
    20. Re:To everyone under 30 by ffreeloader · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, it isn't just a study. It's one more manifestation of how intrusive society is any more and how little you do that isn't mined for information about you and used against you whether it be government or big business using the data to manipulate you.

      These types of "studies" weren't even considered 40 or 50 years ago even though they could have been done then too. Your phone calls couldn't be monitored by anyone back then without a warrant. Your president couldn't order your assassination, or that you, a US citizen, could be held without due process, on nothing more than an unsubstantiated accusation of terrorism back then either. The government couldn't come in and take over your business on any pretense and order you not to talk about it while refusing to release any information about the situation and denying you the right to your day in court. Today that is all possible under current law.

      Back then a kid could fly the US flag on his bike and not be told to either stop flying the US flag on Veterans's Day or he'd get suspended from school. If you had a piece of candy at school it wasn't taken away from you and you weren't punished. What you ate was your own business. Government couldn't have cared less. If you thanked God for your food before you ate in the school lunch room you weren't punished by the public school authorities. It was considered to be your own business what you believed, not the government's business. You know, that little clause in the Constitution that says, Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion, or prohibiting the free expression thereof... , was actually understood and followed by all three branches of government.

      The Constitution and Declaration of Independence were taught, and admired by the vast majority of us back then. We understood that they are the foundation of our libery. We even said the Pledge of Allegiance in school. Most of us loved our country back then. We didn't do it ignorantly either. We recognized even then that our country has been less-than-perfect and did not like our country's failures, but we also knew we could never find a better place to live than right here in the US.

      After watching government become more and more intrusive, give big business more power by not enforcing the law, and violate our Constitution again and again as it increased its size and scope it's easy to see the big picture and understand what these seemingly unrelated events are doing to our freedoms and our liberty.

      Business has no more right to invade our privacy than government. Business has no more right to track all our activities than government does. Both are engaging in behavior that the founding fathers would not have allowed to happen, and that we, as American citizens should hot have allowed to happen either.

      We the people need to take our country back, and stop the madness.

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    21. Re:To everyone under 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not always the government. My old school used to have a very tolerant drinking policy (not too long ago, so 21+ legal, but the policy was much more flexible). They also used to post every police interaction, with a thorough description, in the school paper. Thus, people who did really stupid shit would be shamed when their friends would see a story very similar to what their friend told them, only with the part about getting the police called.

      It was the local news station, trying to get rankings from all the good moms and dads around that came in and started doing "investigative journalism" that made them become strict (instead of letting a party happen but remaining close by so it didn't get out of hand, they started harassing people until someone made the slightest mistake and would then raid the party). It was "big [something]" allright, but the government was totally fine to let the local cops do their thing and act reasonably (and educationally). The local news doing all that bullshit "think of the kids"...bullshit...was what made it change...

    22. Re:To everyone under 30 by ffreeloader · · Score: 1

      What's the color of my skin have to do with anything? Do you have gray eyes? Do you have black or brown hair? Those things are as relevant to this discussion as the color of my skin.

      It seems to me I hear charges of racism over anything and everything now. And we see government making decisions over who they will prosecute based on race alone. Hmmm.... Isn't making decisions like that both illegal and morally wrong? Looks to me like there are bigots in both law enforcement and government now too. We even have people advocating the killing of babies based on nothing more than the color of their skin. That calls to mind Germany of the 1930's and 40's where babies could be legally killed based on their race alone. And you're saying things are better today?

      I guess it must be a real shocker to some people that human nature hasn't changed. That bigots have always existed, and always will, seems to be a little-known, or greatly-ignored, fact. Add to that the greater intrusiveness of government, and laws protecting government employees from being held accountable by society, and today's bigot working for the government has more power than ever. The situation is worse, not better.

      Laws will never shape human nature. Look around you. Society, as a whole, has far worse morals today than it did 50-60 years ago. At the turn of the 20th century men still did business on a handshake, and anyone who violated that trust became an outcast in their community. Compare that to today when you have to be very suspicious of contracts and the more corrupt a businessman is, Bill Gates for example, the more he is admired by society-at-large. The love of money seems to rule almost our entire society, and anytime that happens to a society you can be sure it will decline sharply....

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    23. Re:To everyone under 30 by http · · Score: 1

      Mods have access to better drugs than I do, apparently.

      That's the stupidest thing I've seen get a score over two in a long time. You have failed a basic reading comprehension task. Plus, your spelling could be improved.

      --
      If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
      3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
    24. Re:To everyone under 30 by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      So you think it's acceptable to be spied on by the government and corporations for any reason at all?

    25. Re:To everyone under 30 by Wes42h · · Score: 1

      Let me arm everyone with some basic facts: This is not "spy" satellite imagery. Digital Globe is a commercial satellite imagery provider. Is everyone going to start calling Bing maps and Google maps "spy" satellite imagery? The National Reconnaissance Office only launches the (actual) spy satellites, the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) "drives" them (dictates what they image). NGA is not allowed to image US soil without a "proper use memorandum" from DHS or the president's office. This is usually done for things like natural disasters in America (hurricanes, etc).

    26. Re:To everyone under 30 by Legion303 · · Score: 1

      Back then a kid could fly the US flag on his bike and not be told to either stop flying the US flag on Veterans's Day or he'd get suspended from school. If you had a piece of candy at school it wasn't taken away from you and you weren't punished. What you ate was your own business. Government couldn't have cared less. If you thanked God for your food before you ate in the school lunch room you weren't punished by the public school authorities.

      Now you're just making shit up.

    27. Re:To everyone under 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I imagine the point of mentioning skin color is the assumption that the parent post believes only white (and likely white males) have enjoyed significant freedoms in the last few generations.

      Personally, I think that the larger issue is socioeconomic standing which, to be fair, does tend to be represented disproportionally by white people. A more proper assertion would be "Let me guess, you either come from a middle or upper class background or currently belong to the middle or upper class." But, that's not quite as snappy, and people cornered with such an assertion usually try to make excuses about why they aren't "really" middle or upper class.

      There's a reason why people love money, as you say; it's not for the respect, it's for the freedoms it affords you.

      Signed,

      A white male who knows what its like when Dad is on strike during the Christmas season.

    28. Re:To everyone under 30 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you thanked God for your food before you ate in the school lunch room you weren't punished by the public school authorities.

      What the fuck exactly are you smoking? I do this every single day. (And no, I'm not the guy below me even though I agree with him entirely.)

    29. Re:To everyone under 30 by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Only someone born of white privilege could possibly assert that the law enforcement environment of 40-50 years ago was some high point of government egalitarianism. I don't think even Clarence Thomas would assert that police in the 1950's were some great, grand examples of American color blindness and rational, reasoned justice.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    30. Re:To everyone under 30 by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      How about "it is only indistinguishable because they haven't got powerful enough lenses in the sattelite" ?

      It's only a matter of time before the capability is there to follow your every move, identify everyone you interact with and see whatever you do, even in your own garden, in real time.

      If you really see nothing wrong with that, why not emigrate to China ? Life is much cheaper there, and the cops don't habitually carry tasers.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    31. Re:To everyone under 30 by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

      I, an American, had a conversation with a lifelong British citizen. My observation was that British society seems a lot more closely watched - CCTV everywhere, "you are being watched" and all that. He said, 40 years ago he would have disagreed.

      I was about to argue with him, but then I realized the amount of intelligence gathered by CIA and other organizations on US citizens is at this point legendary. The amount of scrutiny was unheard of. And it died off a bit, while the Brits stepped it up. The difference is, we didn't know we were being spied on.

    32. Re:To everyone under 30 by gottabeme · · Score: 1

      Haha, flamebait? I guess we need a "+1 Irony."

      --
      "Those who consume the bulk of goods are those who make them. We must never forget this secret of our prosperity."
  6. Yeah, You, Specifically by Greyfox · · Score: 3, Informative
    Since 1 pixel is 1/2 meter, this is approximately what you look like from space: ---> .

    Digital Globe has a flikr feed at http://www.flickr.com/photos/digitalglobe-imagery/

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:Yeah, You, Specifically by masmullin · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh man. That shot makes me want to play sim city

    2. Re:Yeah, You, Specifically by dpilot · · Score: 1

      Naaaah, not Sim City... Ant City!

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    3. Re:Yeah, You, Specifically by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      "They are ants, Michael. They are ants." -Bill Gates, Family Guy

    4. Re:Yeah, You, Specifically by Beezlebub33 · · Score: 1

      Now, yes. What about in 5 or 10 years? First, Google gets to put my front yard in full color for everyone to see. Now Digital Globe can post my back yard. What next? Can they track my every movement? Don't think that they won't if they can make a buck doing it.
      /
      Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I don't want anyone tracking me (via cell phone, or car, or other method) without probable cause.

      --
      The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
    5. Re:Yeah, You, Specifically by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't expect any such functionality in the next couple of decades. Satellites have limitations. I suspect unmanned drone aircraft will be the wave of the future and might be able to do some of that stuff. Currently it's still a lot easier to just superglue a GPS device to the underneath of your car. Or tell your cell phone company to start reporting your location updates...

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    6. Re:Yeah, You, Specifically by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean SimAnt?

      Wow, that brings back memories. I used to love this game!

    7. Re:Yeah, You, Specifically by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, there was a Sim Ant, but your joke sucks anyway :(

    8. Re:Yeah, You, Specifically by dpilot · · Score: 1

      No, not Sim Ant, Ant City - a stupid flash game. (But fun anyway, for a few minutes.)

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  7. And people said I was weird by proverbialcow · · Score: 5, Funny

    They mocked me for staying at home, making aluminum foil hats and slathering my naked body with turkey gravy, but who's laughing now?!?

    --
    The only surefire protection against Microsoft infections is abstinence. - The Onion
    1. Re:And people said I was weird by masmullin · · Score: 1

      Everyone that read your post.

    2. Re:And people said I was weird by jeffasselin · · Score: 1

      Dude, you should know that aluminum hats actually improve the transmission rate of the mind-control waves, you gotta use lead.

      Oh and turkey gravy gives skin cancer now :-)

      --
      If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
    3. Re:And people said I was weird by gooman · · Score: 1

      They saw me walk into the mall where I purchased a Faraday cage suit and matching tin-foil hat.
      I put them on before I left.
      They think I'm still there! Hee hee.

      That'll learn 'em.

      --
      "Kittens give Morbo gas!"
  8. clouds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and what did they do in places with cloud cover? Digital Globe only appear to offer visible spectrum images not radar or thermal imagery.

  9. ours, not likely by fermion · · Score: 2, Insightful
    On this Black Friday 2010, they actually took pictures of you, and your rush to

    So you are telling me that a group of people renowned for hiding in parent's basement with the technological knowledge to shop online willing went out into the deathtrap that was black friday.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    1. Re:ours, not likely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Luckily we have these satellite feeds to tell us, because I never would have guessed!

  10. Peace Sells.... by turgid · · Score: 1

    ....but who's buying?

    1. Re:Peace Sells.... by brusk · · Score: 1

      Warmongers diversifying their portfolios?

      --
      .sig withheld by request
    2. Re:Peace Sells.... by turgid · · Score: 1

      I must be getting old.

  11. There's been crowd counting for years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every holiday there's counts of traffic in mall parking lots, usually done by someone with a clipboard and a stop watch - walk around a predetermined area and count the spaces every 15 minute, then stand at a corner and count the traffic for a minute. Using satellites and computers will ensure its more accurate, but it's not a new thing.

  12. Can I be adopted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That your holiday celebrations work is proof of the love your family shares. I think that too often stuff is used as a substitute for love, and the outward manifestations of love-- devoting time and attention to "loved" ones.

    You are very lucky.

    1. Re:Can I be adopted? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That your holiday celebrations work is proof of the love your family shares. I think that too often stuff is used as a substitute for love, and the outward manifestations of love-- devoting time and attention to "loved" ones.

      "Share"? You are only hearing one side of the story. You should probably find out what the kids think of getting a poem rather than the Robosan 4000 that they really wanted. Saving from avoiding consumer goods as presents will probably be exceeded many times over by the cost of the therapy the kids will require. :-)

  13. I don't get it by formfeed · · Score: 2, Interesting
    If you want to know how well you are doing, wouldn't you get better data from your cash register than from your parking lot?

    - Unless of course you want to know how well your competitor is doing.

    1. Re:I don't get it by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Partially, but they also want to know how many people are looking but not buying. It would also be interesting to correlate with the amount of data usage in whatever the local GPRS / UMTS bands are to see how many people were comparing prices for offers online, and whether these people are buying things afterwards. Even without that, you want to get some idea of the percentage of people walking into your shop are walking out with a purchase and how many are just browsing. With in-store video footage and a little image processing, you can also see which departments are most popular with which demographics, how those translate to sales, and so on. You can then use this information to make more money next year, for example by arranging your store layout so that people have to walk past things that they might impulse purchase to get to things that they actually want. This is basically how Google makes its money, although apparently it's not evil when they do it.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:I don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They want to know how much consumer spending there will be before the rest of the market knows. This will allow them to profit when the rest of the market hears the official "cash register" reports and reacts to it.

  14. You forgot one crucial step by formfeed · · Score: 2, Funny

    Friday morning you park your car at the mall, then take the bus home and hide.

  15. Been Doing this for Years by wiredmikey · · Score: 0

    Hedge Funds, Analysts, etc have been analyzing satellite images for years to keep an eye on retail. While interesting, this is by no means anything new.

  16. Well... by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Personally I do like the premise the OP advances. Instead of getting more stuff of little to no real value, they are making memories that will last longer than any item made of fiber, metal, or inorganic hydrocarbon compounds.

    That's until the Alzheimer's kicks in. Then you'll be sad indeed you invested so little in Star Wars figures.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Well... by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1

      When Alzheimer's kicks in you won't even remember what they are, much less why you have them. The only joy you will get is the day-to-day seeing of something "new". At that point, nothing will really matter as you'll just be existing.

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
    2. Re:Well... by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      Meh. When the alzheimer's kicks in, you won't remember you have star wars figurines, let alone what star wars is.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
  17. There is a reasonable middle ground by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Consumerism can be mindless. But it can also be very thoughtful. And that, to me, is when it's just as good as something like a poem.

    Humans are tool users, and there's nothing wrong with buying tools to use as instruments in having fun and making memories. Which could be literal instruments as a new guitar for a music lover. Or something like a new computer for a parent who doesn't have a good grasp on what to buy. These would seem to come under "consumerism" but can have a lasting impact on happiness and shared memories too.

    One think to help this is to reduce the number of people you have to analyze - I have a large extended family that comes together for Christmas, but instead of everyone buying everyone else a present, each family picks two other people to buy gifts for. Christmas for us is mostly about having a good time but it's also enhanced by people getting presents that really move them or mean something to them, because a lot of thought generally goes into each present. And even though we used money to buy them I see nothing wrong with the situation.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:There is a reasonable middle ground by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      To me, consumerism *is* mindless. If you put thought into buying relevant, useful and personal presents, it is no more consumerism than buying bread.

      I like the idea of limiting the number of presents to buy, too - everyone gets something worthwile and meaningful, but nobody has to bleed for it.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
  18. "Roland Piquepaille" is an imposter. by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    Is anyone else confused here? I thought that Roland died in 2009. Wasn't there a /. article on it?

    Yes, the real Roland Piquepaille died almost two years ago. (His real user account was rpiquepa).

    The question is, why should we take anyone blatantly misusing someone else's name like that seriously? And no, I don't believe that this user coincidentally has the same real-life name (or chose that user name independently).

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    1. Re:"Roland Piquepaille" is an imposter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, apparently a few people with mod points do. Or, he's got some sock puppets running around (see: every one of his posts in this thread has at least +1).

  19. Usually done with low tech aerial photos by perpenso · · Score: 1

    Hedge Funds, Analysts, etc have been analyzing satellite images for years to keep an eye on retail. While interesting, this is by no means anything new.

    Yes and no. Its difficult and expensive to get a satellite to image a specific place on a specific date. Most of this sort of work is done by sending up a local flight instructor (they are relatively inexpensive per hour and instrument rated in case of weather) with a photographer as a passenger.

    1. Re:Usually done with low tech aerial photos by wiredmikey · · Score: 1

      Great point.

  20. MOOoooslim? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How the HELL could you NOT want THIS for the start of your Holiest of holy Xtian holiday season:

      STAMPEDE!

    "God gives us Cadillacs! God gives us houses! God gives us shopping malls!" -- the point at which, disgusted, I walked out of a tent revival meeting in Tucson, AZ ca. 1972 and never looked back.

    1. Re:MOOoooslim? by DarkKnightRadick · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'd have done the same. Just because someone calls themselves Christian does not mean they actually are.

      Do not think that every Christian buys into the (false) "Name-it-and-Claim-It" gospel. It's a garbage presentation of the True Gospel of Jesus Christ.

      --
      "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
  21. Competitive Intel by No+Lucifer · · Score: 1

    I imagine that companies are not buying this data for information on their own stores (Wal-Mart, for example, can see every transaction at every store in real time), but rather on their competitors' stores. Any large retailer can process their own sales information a million different was in very short order. But getting intel on your competitors can be very valuable. For example, Wal-Mart can use these images to say "at 5am, the average store had 1 car in the parking lot for every 10 square feet of retail space. Target had 1 car for every 14 feet of retail space (also determined by the images)". This could give Wal-Mart a rough sense of their performance versus competitors well in advance of the Q4 earnings release, for instance.

    1. Re:Competitive Intel by cryoman23 · · Score: 0

      hmmm... i see a lot of carboard cars getting parked in some parking lots in the not so distant future...

      --
      epic sig..... ya i got nothing
  22. Did you note it? Statistical cheating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... on the charts.

    If you did not get it, you may be easily cheated: the bottom of the bar charts was NOT at zero, so the graphical representation of the development in 2010 was totally misleading.
    Probably the increase was around the spread of the values, so not meaningful at all.

    No more charming cheating charts, please.

  23. Really?!?!?! by Atraxen · · Score: 1

    So, we're now jumping on the bandwagon where everything is spying? (I know, I must be new here...) Because, what _I_ read was a barebones article (193 words!!!) barely longer than the summary, that basically says they are using imaging of parking lots (and they implied traffic patterns as well) to see how full they are. I might be wrong, but my response is already almost longer than the article which makes it difficult to tell. I say it's a valid approach, spun up via alarmist phrasing to look like a privacy article.

    Please, next time you flee in a panic from road surveyors who 'are there to spy on you and determine your vectors', please stay in your lane, because I'm already dealing with enough poor drivers... Deep breath - just because they have eyes pointed in your general direction that does not constitute spying.

    --
    Be careful of your thoughts; they could become words at any minute...
  24. bar charts by Spaham · · Score: 1

    No one seems to comment on the way they represent the data in the bar charts.
    If you look at the bars, there seems to be a real big change year after year, as
    the commenter says. But if you look at the numbers, they tell a different story.
    How does a change from 31% to 35% become a huge improvement ?
    People don't learn to read charts, and don't learn to make them.
    If they showed the three bars on a scale from 0 to 100%, then you wouldn't be
    able to tell the difference, or very slightly.

    1. Re:bar charts by Spaham · · Score: 1

      I'd like to rephrase my last sentence as it can be misinterpreted.
      When I say that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, I mean
      that the difference between 31 and 35% isn't much, and it would
      reflect on the charts if the scale was chosen right.
      Choosing to use such a zoomed scale increases the perception
      of the change over the years. If you look at it quickly, you may
      think that people have almost doubled over the years...

  25. Not ME by Stele · · Score: 1

    On this Black Friday 2010, they actually took pictures of you, and your rush to Black Friday shopping deals.

    Nope, not me. I NEVER leave the house on Black Friday. I prefer not to be trampled and run down by mindless consumers.

    I do my Xmas shopping from the relative safety of my computer and Amazon. Ironically, the government probably knows a lot more about MY shopping habits than those in the satellite images.

    1. Re:Not ME by plopez · · Score: 1

      Damn, I shouldn't have ordered those bags of fertilizer and barrels of diesel fuel. Hey NSA, that was a joke....

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  26. 1984 is NOT an instruction manual by Dante1321 · · Score: 1

    i don't like this satellite culture, these mods that see through solid matter are ILLEGAL,to say the least! Let alone all the microwave frequencies that got leaked to the idiot junkies in surveillance by TRAITORS. And I say this 'in the ultrasound' as my stomach grumbles & my machine keeps freezing. ON 28TH DECEMBER 2003 THE MICHIGAN GOVERNOR SIGNED PUBLIC ACTS 256 AND 257 (EFFECTIVE 1/1/04). THESE OUTLAW THE USE OF ANY EM WEAPON ON ANYONE. PENALTY - 15 YEARS-LIFE. over and over and over again... Happy Holidays :)

  27. Black Monday by plopez · · Score: 1

    If you are an economy watcher and armchair economist like I am, the next day to watch is "Black Monday", the first Monday after Thanksgiving. People who only have decent internet at work often place orders on that day. It is dwarfed by "Black Friday", but still interesting to watch. I think it will be up, esp. if there were shortages at the malls due to inventory slashing by the retailers. I can't wait to find out.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:Black Monday by Intrinsic · · Score: 1

      Debt is slavery

      Money is Debt.

  28. You are all forgetting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... they have our best interests at heart, so there's nothing to get upset about.

  29. No they didn't by ikeman32 · · Score: 1

    I can guarantee that any pictures of me from those satellites were not of me going shopping for Black Friday, since I was at work trying in vain to keep up with the bills. Who the hell has the time and money to go shopping for things for other people who aren't going to appreciate it and will probably take it back after the holidays?

  30. Let's play connect the dots... by Notyourpapa · · Score: 1

    between the areas showing the busiest parking lots. What might that spell?