AT&T Goes After Copper Wire Thieves

coondoggie writes "Copper thieves targeting Atlanta are now being targeted themselves by AT&T, which is offering $3,000 for information leading to their arrest. The Atlanta Journal Constitution reports that in one recent three-day stretch, nearly 7,000 customers and two schools lost land line phone service. The FBI has said in the past that the rising theft of the metal is threatening critical infrastructure by targeting electrical substations, cellular towers, telephone land lines, railroads, water wells, construction sites, and vacant homes for lucrative profits."

Comments

Copper theft

[Widowwolf]

So what we just need to do is put more into infrastructure, remove all copper and replace with fiber optic..Voila no more copper thefts!

Re:Copper theft

[CaptainPatent]

...Voila no more copper thefts!

...until the robots take over.

Re:Copper theft

[drinkypoo]

Yep, the head ends and such aren't so easy to sell but copper is copper. Once it's been stripped you have a hard time telling where it's come from, and there's plenty who don't care where it came from as well.

Re:Copper theft

[gstoddart]

So what we just need to do is put more into infrastructure, remove all copper and replace with fiber optic.

What about electrical transmission, smart guy?

It's not like people haven't tried to steal that copper wire from power lines. I'm pretty sire fiber optic won't help there.

Re:Copper theft

[Abstrackt]

Copper conducts electricity a hell of a lot better than fiber optic though. Not that that's stopped some people:
Couple electrocuted while stealing copper wire
Graphic photos too

Re:Copper theft

[Ultra64]

I think the problem of people trying to steal powerline cables is one that takes care of itself fairly quickly.

Re:Copper theft

[Nate237]

At work we've had people destroy fiber thinking they were stealing copper. The aftermath is much more expensive than repairing copper.

Re:Copper theft

[just_another_sean]

Yep, and if they're really lucky tehy may even win an award for it!

Re:Copper theft

[Mashiki]

You'd think so wouldn't you? Back about 2 years ago, some idiots tried stealing copper elec. lines, and blew out a 220k kv transformer about 2 blocks from my house. No smoking shoes. That left a city of ~30,000 people without power for nearly a day and a half.

Re:Copper theft

[cayenne8]

Hmm..how about some type of official licensing required to sell scrap copper and/or other metals.

I'd have to guess paying an annual fee, and having to go "on record" would deter some of the average thieves?

I'm generally against any extra govt. intervention, rules or licensing...but this actually seems like it might server an appropriate function. I mean, the do monitor pawn shops, why not have some type of system that is somewhat analogous to what they do to pawn shops to help prevent stolen goods from being fenced through them.

Re:Copper theft

[drinkypoo]

So what we just need to do is put more into infrastructure, remove all copper and replace with fiber optic.

What about electrical transmission, smart guy?

It's not like people haven't tried to steal that copper wire from power lines. I'm pretty sire fiber optic won't help there.

Copper is rarely used anywhere but between house and pole. The rest of the overhead wiring is typically aluminum, sometimes steel-reinforced. Aluminum has far less recycling value than copper and the risk:reward ratio doesn't pan out.

Re:Copper theft

[Monkeedude1212]

You'd think so - wouldn't you?

Much like the problem of people killing each other should eventually result in less people willing to fight left - yes somehow that problem seems to persist throughout the ages.

Theivery is another problem thats lasted the test of time - and even the most strict punishment awarded (death) hasn't been shown to deter this kind of activity.

It just goes to show how illogical we as human beings are - and why "obvious solutions" never quite work as well as you'd think they would.

Re:Copper theft

[TheTrueScotsman]

But fiber optic transmits information better. And information is power...

Re:Copper theft

[Widowwolf]

Ok read the title of this article."AT&T Goes After Copper Wire Thieves ".Its about AT&T..not about electrical transmission. I am talking about PHONE LINES, because guess what, that's what the article is about Smart guy!

Re:Copper theft

[nschubach]

What about people like my father who collect scrap from their work (with employer approval?) He currently brings home removed cable and cut ends and throws them in a barrel.

Will he have to go get a special license just to sell the barrel of scrap copper he's been collecting?

Re:Copper theft

[robot256]

If there were no copper left then they would stop. Until then, if the risk is virtually nil, even if you have to cut 10 lines to find one copper one it will still be worth it. If there was a high enough chance of getting caught, then increasing the proportion of fiber would eventually be a deterrent. So the only real solution is some method of prevention or prosecution.

How about an anti-theft system that, when it detects tampering, it disconnects the communication equipment and throws on 10,000 volts? That might work as a deterrent, at the very least it would justify a "danger high voltage" sign on communication lines. Only problem is then everything would need 10,000-volt rated insulation.

Re:Copper theft

[Locke2005]

Great. When you figure out how to deliver 120 Volts AC over fiber, get back to me. (I agree, the phone infrastructure should be replaced with fiber.)

My wife's family owns a house in Freetown, Sierra Leone. They've replaced the fricking buried rubber water line providing water to the house 3 times, because thieves keep digging it up and stealing it. It ain't just copper that's a problem...

Re:Copper theft

[Shakrai]

Hmm..how about some type of official licensing required to sell scrap copper and/or other metals.

It'll probably be at least as effective as gun licensing has been at reducing gun violence.

Re:Copper theft

[mysidia]

So what we just need to do is put more into infrastructure, remove all copper and replace with fiber optic..Voila no more copper thefts!

That will raise fiber prices, inspiring fiber theft.

What we need is a bunch of hidden cameras watching key infrastructure at crucial points.

Harsh punishment for even attempting to remove installed wiring / conduit in attempt to steal metal.

And traps / "bait", in the form of putting some wiring in very visible places that _looks_ like easy pickings, but is heavily guarded

Re:Copper theft

[Widowwolf]

Actually AT&T just replaced several miles of telephone wires from the poles and those were copper with Steel Reinforced shroud around it. I know because I had to hand deliver a payroll check to the guy doing the splicing of the wires

Re:Copper theft

[martas]

wow, dude, take it easy. i get your objections, but the guy was just making a suggestion he though might make sense. what's with the name calling, man?

Re:Copper theft

[Nadaka]

Death is not the most strict punishment ever awarded for theft, and it seemed to work pretty well. Vlad Tepes Dracula was a hero to his people for being tough on crime.

Re:Copper theft

[drinkypoo]

Yes, but those are phone wires, not power distribution wires. (The difference lies in both the voltage and the current.) All telcos not already done are in the process of replacing as much copper as possible with fiber, starting with the biggest markets and working their way down. A fiber cut is a PITA to repair but it's many times easier than splicing a fat bundle of pairs of copper.

Re:Copper theft

[russotto]

You'd think so wouldn't you? Back about 2 years ago, some idiots tried stealing copper elec. lines, and blew out a 220k kv transformer about 2 blocks from my house. No smoking shoes. That left a city of ~30,000 people without power for nearly a day and a half.

It took them a day and a half to replace a transformer serving 15,000 customers? That doesn't say much good about the power company. Unless the police delayed them for most of that time "investigating".

Re:Copper theft

[Widowwolf]

But who will watch the watchers

Re:Copper theft

[drinkypoo]

All you do is what they do at the pawn shop, take your ID information. Anyone worried about copper theft should be having the insulation custom-printed. Sorry, but there it is. Of course, once it's been burned off, you're not going to know jack without some very expensive metallurgical work.

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

MichaelKristopeit is a well know troll. He also use many account. Google his name to see for yourself.

Re:Copper theft

[sa666_666]

Check the GP posting history. In almost every reply he makes, he's calling someone an idiot. He strikes me as a very angry little man.

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

Something something free market something.

Funny how glibertarians are free market absolutists right up until they're inconvenienced by something.

Re:Copper theft

[maxume]

My state already requires the scrap yard to take a photo id when they buy scrap.

So no need to create a big new government apparatus to oversee such sales, just increase the fines on yards that make mistakes (which helps deter them from making "mistakes").

Re:Copper theft

[JackieBrown]

Because cayenne8's comment is one step removed from the typical slashdot bullshit post about how free markets are shit and government should regulate everything related to business.

Re:Copper theft

[SnarfQuest]

It depends on if the owners of the house actually wanted you to tear it down.

The copper thieves don't care who owns the stuff, they'll take it anyway. The only way to reduce the thefts is to make theft less desireable. Extended jail time, huge fines to resellers, etc. could make a big difference.

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit180]

i'm 6'4" 220 lbs, and perfectly content in my home with my wife and children and dogs and numerous firearms.

if you feel anger, it is likely due to your own ignorance and hypocrisy.

did your mother name you sa666_666?

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Copper theft

[Bobakitoo]

I belive it is a troll that try to pass as sommone called Michael Kristopeit. More then his comment history... he also has many accounts with that name.

Re:Copper theft

[Dishevel]

To be completely fair. There are a lot of idiots around

Re:Copper theft

[gstoddart]

Ok read the title of this article

I did, and I didn't comment on the title of the article, I commented on what you wrote ...

So what we just need to do is put more into infrastructure, remove all copper and replace with fiber optic

You just simply said all infrastructure.

There, I've run rings around 'ya. ;-)

Re:Copper theft

[Eponymous Coward]

Yes. And please remind him that he should be including this income on his 1040. :)

Re:Copper theft

[JackieBrown]

How about an anti-theft system that, when it detects tampering, it disconnects the communication equipment and throws on 10,000 volts?

I want something like that in the Rio Grande

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

actually places that accept bulk metal like this do not accept any wires that have been burnt off to remove the shielding. it is bad for the environment and they have to report you to the EPA or some agency like that... my memory is foggy atm....

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

Lol. And he always say the same things.

Re:Copper theft

[FeepingCreature]

You sound like your cliché.

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

If someone is a really extra stupid ignorant dumb idiot, I simply call them a Michael Kristopeit. Don't believe me? Check UrbanDictionary.com

Re:Copper theft

[Widowwolf]

This article is about ATT& and its lines: That would be phone wires, not power distribution wires. Hence my comment about replacing them with Fiber..

Re:Copper theft

[Widowwolf]

No i said we need to put more into infrastructure, and remove all copper and replace with fiber optic. In the first part I am talking about developing better infrastructure for communications. In the second I am speaking about 1 specific resolution regarding theft of copper from AT&T's lines is to replace all copper telephone lies with fiber.You are trying to make yourself by cherry picking my words..

Re:Copper theft

[martas]

OK, you're clearly just trolling at this point, but I'll respond - how about you don't call them anything personally, and simply provide clear and civil arguments against their viewpoints, for the benefit of everyone reading the thread, and, perhaps, even the "idiots" themselves?

Re:Copper theft

[GaryOlson]

But fiber optic transmits information better. And information is power...

Power requires a transformer to be useful. Information can only be transformed into power by human beings....and humans are the most inefficient transformers. Therefore, electrical wires transmit a more effective form of power than optic fiber.
/pedantic_argument

Re:Copper theft

[gstoddart]

You are trying to make yourself by cherry picking my words..

No, you're trying to assert you used more specific words than you actually did. There's a difference. If I was cherry picking your words, I would have omitted some of them, instead of quoting them verbatim.

Either way, pedantry on Slashdot isn't exactly something to get excited about. If I didn't do it, someone else would have. :-P

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

Could it be a bot?

Re:Copper theft

[couchslug]

"and even the most strict punishment awarded (death) hasn't been shown to deter this kind of activity."

Change that to "completely deter".

Re:Copper theft

[Darkness404]

And the risk to reward ratio for copper is still rather low. Copper isn't gold people, it would be better to just get a bunch of pre-1982 pennies and melt them down if you wanted cheap, illegal copper.

Re:Copper theft

[GaryOlson]

And traps / "bait", in the form of putting some wiring in very visible places that _looks_ like easy pickings...

...which is heavily coated in poison ivy extract. Won't stop them; but the thieves will easy to identify at the scrap yard.

Re:Copper theft

[Hognoxious]

Check the GP posting history. In almost every reply he makes, he's calling someone an idiot.

Sometimes that someone is himself. Or at least one of his selves.

Re:Copper theft

[KDN]

My wife used to work at a telecom company that had many long haul lines in desert regions with nobody around for miles. She says that both copper and fiber optic cables were regularily stolen

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

did your mother name you sa666_666? ... Says the guy named Kristopeit$RAND

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

Internet translation: I am a 5'6" 220 pound 14 year old girl with a chip on my shoulder and an internet connection. I only know two things - how to call people idiots, and how to be a completely worthless person to society.

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

I think by this point, we all know that the correct equality is Michael Kristopeit == idiot. Also troll.

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

Pathetic is a million times better than being a Michael Kristopeit, which is what you are. And for the record, I am terrified of people with a micro-penis, which is why I cower in fear of you.

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

(I agree, the phone infrastructure should be replaced with fiber.)

Unfortunately it has to be conductive wire going to the house - mainly because phones operate on a 20mA current loop. Last time I checked, fiber doesn't carry current, either.

It doesn't have to be copper, though. You could just as well use aluminum, at least for voice, although your DSL modem might throw a hissy fit at that point.

IIRC you can get all your house wiring in CCA - Copper-Clad Aluminum - which is an aluminum core surrounded by a copper sheath. (I think it takes a larger gauge CCA wire to meet code, though. Maybe 1 gauge size larger, so 12 ga. instead of 14 ga. on a 15A run? It's a lot more aggravating to run anything bigger than 14 ga., though...)

Re:Copper theft

[hedwards]

The point of it is that the thieves are going after low voltage stuff because there's much less risk. The overhead transmission wires are known by basically everybody to be dangerous to screw around with. Phone lines do carry enough power to fry a person, but the situation is pretty specific, you pretty much have to be taking a bath and dump the phone in before it's a problem.

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit198]

says michael kristopeit... an individual.

why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Copper theft

[PhrstBrn]

You're the idiot, you didn't even read the parent's post. Is reading comprehension a problem for you? Come on, troll harder.

Nowhere is the parent suggesting that tearing down other people's houses is legal. He's suggesting that criminals don't give two shits about the law. Apparently you can't read between the lines, idiot.

By the way, you are supposed to capitalize the first letter of every sentence, and "I" is spelled with a capital I. I know it's really hard to reach the shift key with your fat, hot dog fingers, but you should make the effort. Maybe you'll lose some weight and get down to nice "healthy" 400 lbs. one of these days.

Re:Copper theft

[wagnerrp]

Those transmission level power transformers take up half a flatbed, and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's going to require some very heavy equipment to install, and they may have to ship the replacement some distance. It's not like a lineman with a pickup truck is going to be able to pick one up from the local depot.

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit197]

i live at 4513 brittany ct. eau claire, wi. 54701.

find out for yourself, coward.

SPOILER ALERT: you're a presumptuously paranoid hypocritical idiot.

Re:Copper theft

[Mister Whirly]

Yeah, proving that point is the fact that there have been zero murders committed in areas that have adopted the death penalty.

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit195]

[citation required]

you're a presumptuously paranoid hypocritical idiot.

cower some more, feeb.

Re:Copper theft

[Kleen13]

We have lots of copper thievery where I live and we now require people to show photo ID and records to be retained by the scrap dealers. It still happens a lot, so it may have to come to some kind of registry. I'm continuously surprised what balls these thieves have.

Re:Copper theft

[Raenex]

Graphic photos too

Toasty.

Re:Copper theft

[girlintraining]

Hmm..how about some type of official licensing required to sell scrap copper and/or other metals.

We do that up here in Minnesota. It didn't work.

Re:Copper theft

[hedwards]

I'd be a bit skeptical of those photos personally. For one thing, the bodies wouldn't likely still be lying like that next to the source of the power and definitely not neatly either. Even with just household currents you often times get folks being thrown back when their body convulses in what is essentially a massive seizure. I know of at least one case where an apprentice electrician got shocked, then died promptly of a head injury sustained when he was thrown off his ladder.

If you've ever seen video of an old school ECT you'd notice that they convulse significantly, and that's with a relatively small amount of current. Also, even in dead bodies that applies. Back in the 19th century about the time that Frankenstein was written there were experiments being done on ape arms where they applied a current and the thing seemed to go back to life briefly.

Additionally, it's not normal to have an electrical pole with underground wiring right next to it. It might happen in some places, but I doubt it.

Re:Copper theft

[BradleyUffner]

So what we just need to do is put more into infrastructure, remove all copper and replace with fiber optic.

What about electrical transmission, smart guy?

It's not like people haven't tried to steal that copper wire from power lines. I'm pretty sire fiber optic won't help there.

That's easy! just replace the copper with something else that isn't copper that still conducts electricity, something like gold maybe.

Re:Copper theft

[PitaBred]

A bundle of fibers cut is still a pain to replace. Even more than copper. But there is no reason for people to steal fiber, so all the cuts will end up being either accidental or vandalism with intent to steal until the news gets out that the big fat cables aren't copper any more.

Re:Copper theft

[PitaBred]

That's a temporary cost of switching. When the switching is done, the thieves will learn.

Re:Copper theft

[Kleen13]

I was late getting to work one day because a wire thief climbed a pole to cut wire and when he did, the pole fell over onto the street with him still on it, so ya, real work example. He died, and the cops got his accomplice.

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit191]

tearing down YOUR OWN HOUSE is, and always has been, AND MUST REMAIN completely legal.

are you claiming otherwise? if not, then there will always be individuals with legal scrap copper to sell.

you're an idiot. you claim to not understand that i read the parent's post... presume harder.

capitalization does nothing to change logical meaning. it is an unnecessary tool of the weak minded to aide their lacking comprehension skills.

i am 6'4" 220lbs... i own the house at 4513 brittany ct. eau claire, wi. 54701 and live their with my wife and children and dogs and multiple firearms.

you're a presumptuously ignorant hypocrite.

maybe you'll never not be an idiot.

Re:Copper theft

[morari]

There are a bunch of meth and oxy addicts in the nearest town... Cooper theft was pretty common until the recycling place began to require a contractor's license/ID to take the stuff.

Re:Copper theft

[gstoddart]

That's easy! just replace the copper with something else that isn't copper that still conducts electricity, something like gold maybe.

You, sir, have a future in politics! ;-)

Re:Copper theft

[Seedy2]

Well, typically people who don't think they should have to follow the rules ruin it for everyone who does. I expect it to be true for everything eventually.
Either nobody will be able to do it profitably, except mega corps who will just steal from each other, or everyone will have to undergo TSAesque scrutiny.

Re:Copper theft

[Nadaka]

In Transylvania during the rule of Dracula, robbery and theft became very rare. Not because the penalty was death, the penalty was the thief (and the fence, and the guard on duty at the time and probably the families of those men) publicly tortured to death and the staked out along the road to rot and be eaten by buzzards.

I don't understand your statement. Murder is often a crime of passion, even with a 100% conviction and execution rate, murder would still happen occasionally. The death penalty does not act as a much of a deterrent because the difference between life in prison and death isn't that significant for a lot of people.

Re:Copper theft

[Locke2005]

My wife's friends were shipping several dozen bicycles to Africa, until some Mexicans came by and threw them all into the back of a truck. They got arrested when they came back for more, but by then they had already sold the bikes as scrap metal for a whopping payoff of $170 and they had already been ground up for scrap! Now seriously, if you are a scrap metal dealer and somebody wants to sell you a load of perfectly functional bikes for a few bucks a piece, wouldn't you be at least a little bit suspicious? They fucking KNEW they were stolen when the bought them, that's why they destroyed the evidence immediately!

Re:Copper theft

[vlm]

actually places that accept bulk metal like this do not accept any wires that have been burnt off to remove the shielding. it is bad for the environment and they have to report you to the EPA or some agency like that... my memory is foggy atm....

They do not report you to the EPA. They were reported to the EPA in the past.

How do you prove the individual burned it instead of the recycler corporation? What happened is your bulk place got busted for burning plastic, and were more or less put on double secret probation not to accept any burned stuff until the local inspector thug type is replaced or whatever.

Re:Copper theft

[Mister Whirly]

The death penalty does not act as a much of a deterrent

I would say you understood my statement pretty well.

Re:Copper theft

[vlm]

Those transmission level power transformers take up half a flatbed, and cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's going to require some very heavy equipment to install, and they may have to ship the replacement some distance. It's not like a lineman with a pickup truck is going to be able to pick one up from the local depot.

twenty five thousand pounds to a quarter million pounds. Per phase. Its extra awesome hilarious if the city grew up around the xfrmr and you have a choice of which sewer / bridge / drainage culvert to collapse by driving over it. Even funnier if you can't get a mobile crane into the lot because they built something limiting the turning radius. There's a semi-technical craft called machine rigging and I've seen those highly paid guys earn every penny.

Re:Copper theft

[DKP]

sounds good to me.

Re:Copper theft

[vlm]

Phone lines do carry enough power to fry a person, but the situation is pretty specific, you pretty much have to be taking a bath and dump the phone in before it's a problem.

Play with a T-1 having midspan repeater power and get back to us, if you live. Theres a couple feeding each SLC hut, its not hard to find them despite the popularity of HDSL "T-1" service over the past decade or so.

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, stop being such an ignorant Michael Kristopeit. Oh, wait. I forgot that your mother named you that so you can't help it.

Again, you're a Michael Kristopeit.

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit182]

cower some more, feeb.

you're not pathetic at all... NOT AT ALL.

Re:Copper theft

[cdrguru]

Fat lot of good this does in the border states. What exactly are you going to do with a Mexican driver's license. Presumably this would have an address somewhere in Mexico on it as well.

I don't believe the Mexican police place a very high priority on assisting the arrest of copper thieves. Or pretty much anything else that might come from the US.

Copper theft is like shoplifting today - you can try to hold it down but it is always going to be there and it is just another tax on people. You can assume that if you have copper that someone will try to steal it sometime soon.

People are starving and this is a way to get a meal or two.

Re:Copper theft

[Talderas]

I didn't realize that the theft of buckets and barrels was a huge issue anywhere.

Of course if you're talking about the theft of the cooper perhaps you should use kidnapping.

Re:Copper theft

[cdrguru]

In Chandler a number of parks had the wires to the lights removed. I guess it was pretty simple to pull the wires out from a single opening - just grab the wires, attach to pickup truck and pull.

This was probably done at night with the lights powered on.

The wire was replaced after the last time but I am just waiting for it to happen again. And Chandler police have way, way better things to do that try to catch copper thieves. Crime is big business here and we are catching some overflow from the drug smugglers and people smugglers.

Re:Copper theft

[__aajfby9338]

And the risk to reward ratio for copper is still rather low. Copper isn't gold people, it would be better to just get a bunch of pre-1982 pennies and melt them down if you wanted cheap, illegal copper.

Copper wires aren't stolen by people who want cheap, illegal copper. They're stolen by people who are desperate for money. If the copper thief had a bunch of pre-1982 pennies, they wouldn't melt them down for the copper; they'd spend them. Then they'd go steal something when they ran out of pennies.

In my area, a recent rash of copper telephone thefts were done by a small group of meth addicts who then sold the copper to a crooked recycler who didn't check their ID and report the suspicious activity. From what I heard, the meth addicts made around $750, and the damages were estimated at around $750,000. I think they were eventually caught, as well as the crooked recycler. These sorts of thieves won't perceive the risk vs. reward ratio the same way that a rational, functional, employed person would.

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice try. Nothing in Eau Claire county records of anyone named Michael Kristopeit owning a house at that address. No record of sale, tax information, or listing anywhere for that address. If you are going to make shit up, at least try harder. You are getting less entertaining with each of you desparate posts caliming to be someone. I do believe you are from Wisconsin though, because only a cheesehead could be as stupid as you are.

Re:Copper theft

[goofy183]

We have poles all over in the midwest where cables transition from underground to above ground. There is a decent sized conduit that comes out of the ground at the base of the utility pole and runs to the top where it breaks out into the 3 phase above ground run. That looks like exactly what they had here.

Also I have no real idea about the body convulsing at various voltages but I'm guessing 13kv is a bit higher than what is going to cause you to convulse and more in the range of completely frying your nervous system, muscles and whatever else it feels like before the concept of convulsing ever makes it to your muscles.

Re:Copper theft

[cayenne8]

"so if you tear down a house, you aren't allowed to sell the scrap? so what, you're only allowed to "donate" it to a licensed "seller"? is the "seller" allowed to give "gifts" in appreciation of the "donation"? "

No..not at all.

I mean, to demo a house and all, you have to pull permits, etc for that....then paperwork for the scrap (copper specifically) would be included for that, but a one time thing I'd guess...something only for that property.

I hate more govt. involvement as anyone else, and surprised myself to suggest such, but it did come to me that it might be one of the few things good to have the local govt. do to help prevent wholesale looting of our copper infrastructure.

Re:Copper theft

[cayenne8]

"It'll probably be at least as effective as gun licensing has been at reducing gun violence."

What gun license...you mean a carry conceal license? I've only had one of those in one state, but other than that, I've never had to register or license any firearm I've purchased over the years.

Re:Copper theft

[maxume]

I'm comfortable with banning non-residents from turning in copper.

Re:Copper theft

[hairyfeet]

Actually I think it may be a bot, I mean just look at the pattern: Several accounts all going up incrementally, posts ALWAYS follow this pattern (small piece of original post and/or posters name+same remarks with order simply switched) followed by the end pathetic catch all. It reminds me of those lame chat bots they build to try to pass Turing tests that always come off as ELIZA.

Sadly this is what /. has come down to, trollbots. The quality of this site has gone down, with less and less "news for nerds" and more and more "latest shiny gadget you must has it! BUY NOW!" slashvertisments and "news" of every single fart released by Brin/Ballmer/Jobs. At least in the old days we got decent trolls like Twitter, who was always good for a laugh with his "Ballmer=Illuminati=worldwide conspiracy to suppress Linux and kill puppies" bit. Hell now all we get is copypasta that is older than USENET ,badly done "In Soviet Russia" jokes that often get the reversal wrong, and now troll bots.

C'mon /. editors, we know you are busy playing the latest CTF map for Q3, but could you at least drop the banhammer on the trollbot? I mean once it got over 100 accounts even Ray Charles could spot the thing.

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit174]

so because you're an inept idiot unable to locate records, you're accusing me of being a liar?

google maps claims my address doesn't exist and that a habitat for humanity is on the corner of my block... their "street view" service negates both of those claims.

you're an idiot.

keep trusting the information presented to you blindly, feeb.

why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

you're completely pathetic.

present yourself to me; admit what you've done, then i will bring upon you the ultimate punishment for your transgressions.

Re:Copper theft

[snspdaarf]

Additionally, it's not normal to have an electrical pole with underground wiring right next to it. It might happen in some places, but I doubt it.

Not sure how you mean that, but I know of several businesses with a large transformer outside their building, and three-phase primary voltage buried cable running 200+ feet from it to the utility pole. If you mean buried distribution, that's different.

Re:Copper theft

[Hognoxious]

One, why is it a power company's fault for not keeping spares to deal with a rare fault that could only be caused by someone else's malice?

Two-A, even if they did have a spare on hand, I have no idea how long changing one of these things over takes.

Two-B, neither do you.

Three, why did you suddenly halve the number of people to be supplied?

Re:Copper theft

[hairyfeet]

And THIS is why we need to bring back the WPA folks. Instead of letting good folks sit there worried because they can't find a job and their unemployment is gonna run out, put them to work upgrading our infrastructure for the 21st century. Our communications lines are seriously shitty in large parts of the country, roads and bridges practically falling apart, all these things need fixing. A hell of a lot better solution IMHO than extending unemployment over and over because the economy is a corpse. If we brought back the WPA there is no reason the US couldn't have 50MB FIOS nationwide with carriers having to compete, which would bring new opportunities like telecommuting, 3D entertainment streamed, all kinds of new possibilities.

If we would do this along with getting rid of the stupid drug war, which we have been "fighting" for 80+ years with nothing to show for it, maybe instead of stealing we could put the junkies to work digging trenches for new lines and other needed jobs. I don't know if it is the same everywhere but here in the south someone with a drug bust often can't even get a job sweeping floors, which just makes it that much harder for them to survive without illegal activities. But sadly common sense approaches in this country are always ignored for the latest slogan proclaiming "get tough on (insert x)" so we will be seeing more of this as things get worse. Remember when the only time we heard about this stuff was in regard to a third world country?

Re:Copper theft

[Hognoxious]

No i said we need to put more into infrastructure, and remove all copper and replace with fiber optic. [...] You are trying to make yourself by cherry picking my words..

He doesn't exactly have to work hard at it, does he?

It's not like his point is invalid - people do try to steal power cables too. A buddy used to work for an electric company and from time to time he'd be called out to a fault and he'd find a hole in the ground, a cut cable and a black tarry blob. The latter is what you get when several kilovolts use a thieving gyppo as a conductor.

Re:Copper theft

[TheTrueScotsman]

Each of your premises is almost perfectly wrong. Wonderful stuff!

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

I got hit with 13kV @ 7-8 amps. Just a single pulse or two, I think, from a radar transmitter. I woke up across the room, having hit a steel bulkhead which was fortunately quite smooth. Bolts or other protrusions could have altered things. Probably didn't help that I was sweating like the proverbial pig, since this was August in Louisiana. In any case all I guess I'm glad I blacked out as I imagine that actual shock would have hurt like hell. The bruises sure did.

Re:Copper theft

[drinkypoo]

And this comment thread is about power wires, which you would have known if you would have read the parent to my comment about which you erroneously complained.

Re:Copper theft

[drinkypoo]

A lot of the places there's a bundle of copper you could replace it with a single strand of fiber. You wouldn't because that would be wasteful of labor, so you run more so you don't have to go back. But the places in the USA that it's easiest to steal are all rural so it wouldn't be many strands.

Re:Copper theft

[hedwards]

I guess that's around here, I definitely could be wrong about that. It might just be that we don't have much of anything below ground. The main reason why we need to call before we dig is gas lines.

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

lasers and photocells

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

I think he means more like the "licensing" (a ban in reality) that places like Chicago, New York, Washington DC have implemented. You know, the most dangerous, violent spots in America. Meanwhile, in every place where citizens were freed to defend themselves the crime rate dropped drastically. It'd be nice if the right to self-defense would stop being infringed by the government from shore to shore.

Re:Copper theft

[Mashiki]

Simple answer is: Canada

It takes 8hrs to drive something from Northern Ontario.

Re:Copper theft

[Grishnakh]

No, requiring licensing to sell something is stupid, and really quite offensive. It's like requiring people to purchase a license just to have a garage sale, or to sell something on Craigslist.

Just do what we did in Arizona: pass a law requiring anyone selling scrap metal to show a Driver's License (or other government photo ID), and this information to be recorded by the scrap metal yard. This drastically reduced the amount of copper theft in our state when it was implemented. We used to hear about stuff being stolen every day: copper wire, even manhole covers!, but now it's pretty rare.

The big problem is the scrap metal yards themselves. The people who operate and work in those places are very shady characters, and don't care where metal comes from, even if it's obviously stolen (like a manhole cover). But a law like the above, and some decent enforcement of it, will go a long way towards stopping metal theft, by making it hard for the tweakers/meth-heads to find a place to sell their stolen wares at.

So, if your state has a big problem with metal theft, you can blame your state government. This is something that can and should be done at the state level.

Re:Copper theft

[Grishnakh]

What's interesting is that gun bans don't always equate to violent places to live. For instance, in Hawaii it's just about impossible to own a handgun legally. However, there's very little crime there. I think this has a lot to do with the local culture. The people who live in cities like Chicago and Detroit have a culture that celebrates gang membership, crime and violence, whereas the people who live in Hawaii have a culture that values peace (unfortunately, they were so peaceful they let a bunch of American businesspeople move in a century or so ago and take over the place with almost no resistance, later turning it into a US state). The only crime you really have to worry about in Hawaii is petty theft.

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

Here I am, I admit I made you look like a stupid liar. I have already been punished by having to read your inane worthless posts. You couldn't possibly do anything worse.

Re:Copper theft

[slick7]

So what we just need to do is put more into infrastructure, remove all copper and replace with fiber optic..Voila no more copper thefts!

The real copper thieves are the Phone companies themselves. The land line customers pay "lease fees" for decades, well above and beyond the initial cost of installation.
As for upgrading the telecommunication system, the "phone company" will charge what they want, regardless of the profits made from copper. The idea that fiber optics will be dealt with the same way goes without saying.
If you wish to believe in the "maintenance" tripe, here's a tip...Today's business model expects operations until the system fails, whether due to degradation of the line (least likely, just like copper) or mechanical failure as in trees bringing down poled wires or utility workers digging into buried lines (most likely and more expensive) and since business models extract the most profit available, you the customer will pay.

Re:Copper theft

[Firethorn]

In which case I'd charge the scrap dealer full replacement value. The Mexicans too. Heck, remember the old 'threefold rule'? Make it 150% each.

The scrap dealer will either go out of business or start taking measures against accepting stolen goods. Or at least keep the stuff long enough to be recovered(in which case I wouldn't charge them the 150%, especially if they can provide documentation as to who tehy bought it from).

Re:Copper theft

[Shakrai]

For instance, in Hawaii it's just about impossible to own a handgun legally.

Huh? Did you mean to say "carry" instead of "own"?

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit136]

talking to yourself? that's the only person you've ever made look like a liar. you're an ignorant hypocrite.

why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

you are exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING.

YOU are NOWHERE.

ur mum's face couldn't possibly do anything worse.

Re:Copper theft

[darkpixel2k]

What about people like my father who collect scrap from their work (with employer approval?) He currently brings home removed cable and cut ends and throws them in a barrel.

Will he have to go get a special license just to sell the barrel of scrap copper he's been collecting?

Yeah--just you wait. My dad did the same thing. Damn copper thieves stole his barrels of copper about a year ago.

Re:Copper theft

[Glendale2x]

So what we just need to do is put more into infrastructure, remove all copper and replace with fiber optic..Voila no more copper thefts!

Unfortunately they'll still cut it first to look inside, they just won't bother to pull it out.

Re:Copper theft

[MJMullinII]

...Voila no more copper thefts!

...until the robots take over.

...and all they eat is old people's medicine as fuel.

Re:Copper theft

[MJMullinII]

What about people like my father who collect scrap from their work (with employer approval?) He currently brings home removed cable and cut ends and throws them in a barrel.

Will he have to go get a special license just to sell the barrel of scrap copper he's been collecting?

Yeah--just you wait. My dad did the same thing. Damn copper thieves stole his barrels of copper about a year ago.

Yeah! They're always after me lucky copper!

Re:Copper theft

[garwain]

Yep, some places really don't give a damn. Unfortionatly, there are too far away from me for it to be profitable to take my scrap there. The big centers that are actually responable (and there are a couple within a half hour drive from me) refuse wire unless it's delivered by an electrician, or contractor. I have a shed packed with old wire from the last major change on my farm, where we stripped out several lines running between buildings. I also have coax from the last 2 times the cable comany changed the line from the road to my house, and couldn't be bothered taking away the old broken wires. When spring rolls around again, I'm going to have to get a building permint, hire my neighbour (a certified electrician) to change a light bulb or something, the ride with me to the scrap yard so they'll take all this junk that is worth a small fortune,

Re:Copper theft

[mcgrew]

The price of metals is a PITA to AT&T, but I love it. Recycling my beer cans is far more worthwhile than it was just six months ago.

Too bad they haven't started canning food in aluminum cans.

Re:Copper theft

[mcgrew]

I don't see a need for licensing, but there is a city ordinance here in Springfield that you have to show proof of identity to recycle metals. They enacted it after a rash of thefts of wire and air conditioning coils.

Re:Copper theft

[drinkypoo]

Coax doesn't have so much metal in it. You might consider selling it as wire. Some people are still using it :)

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

[citation required]

Ok. Pull down your pants. Look between your legs. See how there is nothing there where a normal penis should be? There is your citation. Have fun with you half inch penis. Maybe you could just tell people, much like you belly button, that your penis is an "innie".

Re:Copper theft

[Mister Whirly]

I certainly hope so. Last time I checked Hawaii was still a part of the USA and the Constitution should still applies there. The few times that local laws passed to try and prevent gun ownership they were struck down as unconstitutional. Apparently city laws don't trump federal ones.

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

He found your house and was peeking in the window while you jacked to porn. He didn't want you seeing the flash so didn't make any citations.

Re:Copper theft

[Anonymous Coward]

And you = troll.

Re:Copper theft

[arth1]

You can't, unless you have enough light going through the fiber-optical lines to deliver the ringer current.

The provided power is why POTS continues to work during power outages (or unpaid electricity bills), while people with internet phone services go dead.

Re:Copper theft

[arth1]

Go after the audiophiles. They use silver wires with gold connectors.

Re:Copper theft

[Sardaukar86]

i am michael kristopeit... a person.

you are exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING.

why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

you're completely pathetic.

Dude, your trollbot software is really due for an update. Try something a little more original next time.

Re:Copper theft

[Sardaukar86]

i'm 6'4" 220 lbs, and perfectly content in my home with my wife and children and dogs and numerous firearms.

if you feel anger, it is likely due to your own ignorance and hypocrisy.

did your mother name you sa666_666?

you're completely pathetic.

Wow mate, you have to be the most delusional tosspot I've ever come across on the Internet.

The only wife you have is of the blow-up variety stored under your bed.

I can just imagine you breathily screaming 'You are NOTHING!' while you pork her tender rubber flange.

Re:Copper theft

[Sardaukar86]

says michael kristopeit... an individual.

why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

you're completely pathetic.

An individual, yes, one with a thousand broken and snarling personalities writhing inside your head.

With all the mindless tripe you cannot help spewing, you advertise yourself as nothing more than the most arrogant fuckwit of all time and space when you call someone else an idiot.

Re:Copper theft

[Sardaukar86]

i live at 4513 brittany ct. eau claire, wi. 54701.

find out for yourself, coward.

SPOILER ALERT: you're a presumptuously paranoid hypocritical idiot.

Hey Mr. Empty Head, do some research, find out what the words 'paranoid' and 'hypocrite' really mean before accusing other people of same.

If you had any self-analytical skills, you'd see that you are a poster-child for a lot of what you claim others to be.

Now that's what I call pathetic!

You are NOTHING. Why do you cower? Har har har.

Re:Copper theft

[Sardaukar86]

cower some more, feeb.

you're not pathetic at all... NOT AT ALL.

Yeah, cower, you got it absolutely right. That's what we do when we see you: we cower. Because we're terribly, terribly afraid of your MIGHT.

Re:Copper theft

[Sardaukar86]

your ignorant unworkable plans = (Score:3, Funny)

slashdot = stagnated

MichaelKristopeit168 = redundant

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit138]

ur mum's face is really due for an update.

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit139]

keep calling people mate, and JUST MAYBE eventually someone might take you up on it.

you're completely pathetic.

cower some more, feeb. what's your full name and address?

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit140]

i am a single person, moron.

are you a person? do you have a name?

would you rather continue to cower behind your chosen pseudonym?

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit191]

i'm not cowering... that makes you presumptuous... as you have not claimed otherwise.

calling someone pathetic for calling others pathetic makes you a hypocrite... and your further suggesting that you aren't a hypocrite furthers such an argument.

your response to such claims with a defense is indicative of someone paranoid of the results present without such a defense... or are you simply obsessively and compulsively responding because everyone is lying and making fun of you?

ha?

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit192]

you cower because YOU CHOSE TO COWER.

what is your full given name? what is your full home address?

you respond because you believe others might believe me if you didn't. why would they believe me if you weren't cowering?

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit193]

ur mum's face = redundant.

cower some more, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit160]

my citation? my "citation" is HUGE. who is half inch penis? you're an idiot.

why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

you're exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING.

completely pathetic.

Re:Copper theft

[MichaelKristopeit163]

ur mum's face = troll

why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

you're completely pathetic.

Wow!

[drunkennewfiemidget]

What an electrifying story! I bet those thieves are in for a jolt when they're charged with wire theft.

Re:Wow!

[Abstrackt]

Couldn't resist eh?

Re:Wow!

[IllusionalForce]

Shocking, isn't it? *badum-tish!*

Re:Wow!

[Monkeedude1212]

They'll be met with resistance soon enough, if this current trend continues.

Re:Wow!

[illumastorm]

News like this is certainly Ohm-nious.

Re:Wow!

[Bill_the_Engineer]

He couldn't help himself. The topic is conducive to such puns.

Re:Wow!

[Bill_the_Engineer]

They'll probably be grounded.

Re:Wow!

[martas]

oh god, MAKE THEM STOP!

Re:Wow!

[DG]

That would take an enormous effort - one well beyond the capabilities of any single human.

You'd need a giant robot - a Transformer.

Perhaps Shockwave?

DG

Re:Wow!

[gstoddart]

He couldn't help himself. The topic is conducive to such puns.

Most current events are. You can't insulate yourself from it. ;-)

Re:Wow!

[GaryOlson]

Only if the charge is coupled with resisting arrest.

Re:Wow!

[GaryOlson]

Only if someone finds a good lead to connect them to the spike in thefts.

Re:Wow!

[hedwards]

Well, we must all resist the urge.

Re:Wow!

[Anonymous Coward]

This magnetic story is bound to generate a lot of leads given such inducements.

Re:Wow!

[Anomalyst]

A powerful surge is hard to resist.

Re:Wow!

[snspdaarf]

That's why I never connect anything without an urge protector.

Hmm, the light's not on...

Re:Wow!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you meant ohm my god?

Give 'em all the lead they want

[Anonymous Coward]

At high velocity.

Re:Give 'em all the lead they want

[Anonymous Coward]

1 for 1 exchange in weight.

Re:Final Solution

[sexconker]

I didn't know Hitler was alive and posting on Slashdot...I guess that explains the high number of grammar Nazi's around here.

That stray apostrophe will cost you your life.

also biggest target for menards/home depot/lowes

[MichaelKristopeit163]

go down the wire isle and you're almost guaranteed to be approached by a security guard posing as a shopper.... "$15M for this store and the lanes are so small, right? what's the deal?"

i usually pick up the biggest spool i can a few times and turn it over, then leave then come back and do it a few times just to watch them dance and attempt to continue their charade.

copper is more lucrative than gold in leveraging society. it is required in abundance.

Excuse my ignorance

[Anonymous Coward]

Excuse my ignorance but the only time I herd of people stealing copper was when the economy was on verge of the next great depression, in 2010. Is there some link here or is my knowledge of metal costs, or criminals lacking

Re:Excuse my ignorance

[Abstrackt]

People are still stealing it like crazy. Here's a link for a Google search on the phrase "copper wire stolen" in the last two weeks. I know there are repeats but 36,400 results is still a lot.

Re:Excuse my ignorance

[Niris]

Eh, I think copper just in general has enough worth to make it worth stealing whenever. I know people who have been stockpiling every bit of copper they can cheaply get for years now.

Re:Excuse my ignorance

[Anonymous Coward]

You obviously haven't been on a large construction site. When I was in college -- thirty years ago -- I had a summer job working for a painting contractor; every day you could find the electricians on their lunch break filling up their lunchboxes with copper.

Both Britain and South Africa have been have a problem with this for a few years now, and even before the housing bubble burst there were news stories about empty houses around here being stripped of their copper plumbing. There have been occasional news stories in Britain and South Africa about the nitwits who tried cutting a high voltage line with hacksaws and frying themselves.

Re:Excuse my ignorance

[Steauengeglase]

Crackheads* have been doing this for decades; looting construction sites and such for "scrap". While I think it is a bad sign, it really isn't anything new, except others a joining in on the fun while facing unemployment, rising food prices, etc.

*Yes, I'm targeting a specific, generally low-income, subgroup of drug addicts, I guess that makes me a bigot; then again the Rotarians have never broken into my house and ransacked the place for anything that can be turned over to a pawnbroker or scrap dealer.

Re:Excuse my ignorance

[h4rr4r]

While crackheads were once a major scourge the methheads have pretty much replaced them in everywhere but the most urban of locations.

Re:Excuse my ignorance

[sjames]

If we fix our drug laws and the economy, the copper theft will take care of itself. Copper theft requires as much work as a real job for the money and carries higher risks. So if there are plentiful real jobs that's one group of desperate copper thieves out of the picture.

Fix the drug laws and the remainder will fall into 2 categories. The first group will quickly fry themselves on cheap affordable drugs and collect their Darwin award. The second group will manage to get respectable work by day and party at night until they have their heart attack at 30. Either way, no more copper theft.

Currently inducing a headache...

[Duositex]

Looks like these guys are stopping people from...

*puts on sunglasses*
 
...conducting business.
 

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

dun

dun dun

(i am an absolute sucker for the CSI:miami meme)

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get it.

Oh! AT&T sponsors orchestras that have a conductor and without AT&T's support there wouldn't be a conductor!

Ah! It's a good thing that there are really smart people like me to appreciate your jokes!

Copper wire and conductivity.....Pffft! *snicker* Nice red hearing!

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[MichaelKristopeit180]

wow... funniest thing on this site in a while, (Score:1, Funny) and someone moderates it "Overrated"

slashdot = stagnated

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[blair1q]

Do I hear...The Who?

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[TheRaven64]

slashdot = stagnated

And yet you don't just post here, you maintain several accounts so that you can continue to post your drivel when your karma gets so low one is blocked from posting. Which says a lot more about you than it does about the site...

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[Bigjeff5]

It's overrated because there is a thread much funnier above.

It's not that funny, others are better.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[MichaelKristopeit177]

and yet you respond to me, while hypocritically confirming my claims.

did your mother name you "TheRaven64"?

you beg for the praise of those entrusted with the responsibility of moderating this website internet chat room messageboard. you're completely pathetic.

if i, and those like me who remember what this site used to be, continue to do nothing, then nothing will change. that is the implication of stagnation, moron.

you're an idiot.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[GaryOlson]

You forgot to turn your post sideways before delivering the punch line.
-1 for lack of style.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[jsh1972]

yeeaaahhhh!!!!!

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[SleazyRidr]

you beg for the praise of those entrusted with the responsibility of moderating this website internet chat room messageboard. you're completely pathetic.

See, the way it works is that good comments get good moderation and bad comments get bad moderation, that way when you look at the site, you see the good comments first and have to look for the bad comments. No one gives a shit about the praise of the mods.

if i, and those like me who remember what this site used to be, continue to do nothing, then nothing will change. that is the implication of stagnation, moron.

No, not only do you want the site to stagnate, you actively want it to go backwards?

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[MichaelKristopeit139]

the way it works is the parent demands of the readers of their comments to "sudo mod me up" with every comment they offer.

you're an ignorant hypocrite.

i want every marketeer protecting their personal interests through the spreading of disinformation to be mocked for their pathetic acts.

did your mother name you "SleazyRidr"?

why do you cower in the shadow of an assumed pseudonym? what are you afraid of?

you're completely pathetic.

stay sleazy, feeb.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[Anonymous Coward]

YEEEEEAAAAAHHH!

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[Anonymous Coward]

MichaelKristopeit177 (1940422)

if i, and those like me who remember what this site used to be, continue to do nothing, then nothing will change. that is the implication of stagnation, moron.

Used to be when?

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[SleazyRidr]

did your mother name you "SleazyRidr"?

Actually it was my father who came up with the name.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[MichaelKristopeit136]

before the stagnation.

why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[MichaelKristopeit135]

so you can't even come up with assumed pseudonyms on your own? what is wrong with the name on your birth certificate?

why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[SleazyRidr]

Unlike you, I provide anyone reading this comment with an easy way to track every comment I've made on this site. So far you've used 3 of your multiple personalities in your conversation, how can anyone possibly get a grip on what you stand for?

As for cowering, are you anywhere near Houston? I'd be quite happy to meet up with you and discuss this in person.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[Sardaukar86]

[feeble-minded rant deleted]

Give it up, you useless cunt. Your arguments are the tissue-thin, hollow ravings of a madman who is incapable of observing his own behaviour.

You're completely fucking pathetic.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[Sardaukar86]

wow... funniest thing on this site in a while, (Score:1, Funny) and someone moderates it "Overrated"

slashdot = stagnated

Well then, take the hint you rabid, slavering mongrel.

The reason nobody here likes what you like, laughs at what you think is funny or agrees with your point of view is that your mind is a twisted, diseased little knot and you're too stupid to realise it!

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[MichaelKristopeit197]

give what up? you're the idiot... i called you an idiot... as you continue to be an idiot, i'll continue calling you an idiot. if you require my actions to stop, perhaps your best solution would be to cease your demonstrations of idiocy.

ur mum's face are incapable of observing his own behavior.

you are exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING.

cower some more, feeb.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[MichaelKristopeit198]

ur mum's face are rabid, slaveing mongrel.

who is "nobody here"? you speak for all of "them"? you need to create fictional groups because you are incapable of fighting your own battles?

why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[SleazyRidr]

So, just out of curiosity... what's your address?

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[MichaelKristopeit201]

4513 brittany ct. eau claire, wi. 54701.

cower some more, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.... and seemingly too ignorant to perform a "search" on the "internet"... DURRRRRRRRRRRR

you're an idiot.

stay sleazy, moron.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[SleazyRidr]

What exactly did this guy do to you that you're trolling forums in his name and posting his address on the internet?

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[SleazyRidr]

Well, I guess I am arguing with some guy who lives on the other side of the country over the internet. That is pretty pathetic...

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[MichaelKristopeit210]

you're cowering in my shadow.

stay sleazy, moron.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[SleazyRidr]

STFU n00b! lol

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[MichaelKristopeit210]

ur mum's face n00b.

cower some more, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[SleazyRidr]

I never really understood those comments. Your mum right back at you.

Interesting, your brother said that he was from Wisconsin, yet you use the British spelling of mum.

If only your comment history wasn't full of telling people that they are pathetic and/or cowering, I could take a look at what you've said before and try to work out who you really are...

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[MichaelKristopeit210]

if only you would realize that this website is full of cowering, pathetic individual like yourself, i would haven't have to once again point out YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[SleazyRidr]

I'm afraid that Brits have landed in Wisconsin, apparently in secret, trying to win back the US in the war of independence mark 2.

Or that you're the most persistent troll that I've ever met.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[MichaelKristopeit210]

ur mum's face're the most persistent troll that i've ever met.

cower some more, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[SleazyRidr]

You know you could just make that;

cower some more, feeb.

you're completely pathetic.

Your sig and not have to type it every time.

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[SleazyRidr]

I see you've used the same account 5 times in a row. That's the first time I've seen you do that. Is this the account you dedicate to 'your mum' comments?

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[SleazyRidr]

Not a 'your mum' comment, so you switched out the account. You could have just said, 'yes.'

Re:Currently inducing a headache...

[SleazyRidr]

So it's the whole 200-line that's dedicated to 'your mum' posts?

Given how much I despise AT&T

[Anonymous Coward]

I really can't decide who to root for in this situation, so I'll go with my default (i.e. when the Yankees play the Red Sox): I hope a singularity opens up and swallows both groups whole.

Obvious solution

[SnarfQuest]

Instead of using this namby-pamby 48 volts, they should switch to 48,000 volts. That should reduce the repeat offenders by a large percentage.

Re:Obvious solution

[Monkeedude1212]

No, they need to find that perfect balance where the voltage is JUST high enough so cause an arc but aren't sacrificing the current required to toast them.

Re:Obvious solution

[mcgrew]

Volts don't kill you, amps do. Ten volts at one amp will kill you dead. As long as there's enough voltage to penetrate your skin's electrical resistance, a fraction of an amp will kill you.

If you have a wire with 10,000 volts and .0001 amp and grab it with one hand and a ground with the other hand, all your hair will stand on end, but it won't hurt you.

If that 48 volts is at one amp, that's way more than enough to kill you.

That's one reason why the Brits say their electrical systems are safer than Yanks' -- theirs runs at twice the voltage as ours, so appliances only need half as many amps.

Copper wire in South Africa

[crowne]

Here in South Africa copper wire has been a country wide problem, some areas being hit time and again 1 week after the lines have been restored.
I definitely agree that fiber is the way to go, especially once you've replaced the same line more than 6 times....

Problem is that they go after the electricity cables too, and those can't be replaced with fiber.
Occasionally they end up self fried, but it doesn't seem to be a long term deterrent.

Re:Copper wire in South Africa

[h4rr4r]

Perhaps improving the job market and your nations distribution of wealth might help. People go to extremes when they cannot afford the basics of life. If your kids needed to eat you too would risk toasting yourself with an electrical line.

Re:Copper wire in South Africa

[elp]

The starving poor steal things like brass garden taps. The gangs doing the copper cable theft are VERY well equipped.

The governments policy of only allowing political appointees (i.e utterly unqualified) to run anything they control is the bigger problem. The odds of being caught are extremely low and a huge number of state prosecutors are incompetent so conviction rates are not great. There is no incentive for the thieves to stop.

who is dumb enough to go a electrical substations

[Joe The Dragon]

who is dumb enough to go a electrical substations to take cable when there is other cable that is easy to get and is safer to get.

Re:who is dumb enough to go a electrical substatio

[characterZer0]

Right. Like active plumbing: http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_stories/525390/apparent-copper-theft-leads-to-flooding-of-future-reoc-building/

This is a problem not just besetting AT&T

[mlts]

One of the reasons newer A/C condensers have signs like "NO COPPER INSIDE" is exactly because of this.

The reason for this happening? Copper is in areas that have no guards, alarms, curious onlookers. Then it is just one insulation-burning step away from a recycler and cash per pound.

The only real solution is to start forcing recyclers to have a chain of custody, similar to what pawnshops have when someone tries to sell/pawn something. No "well, I got this copper from an old remodel I just did" BS which serves now. Require a valid ID for sale with valid contact info. Some recyclers do their homework with this, but there are always others who don't.

Re:This is a problem not just besetting AT&T

[Beardo the Bearded]

That's the problem. When the scrap dealers will accept parking meters and in one case, the pendulum from a hundred-year-old clock, then the problem isn't the meth-head looking for a fix. A reputable place will require ID and call the place. Some of the places here provide coffee, a tent, and insulation strippers.

No really, parking meters. They started stealing the parking meters.

Re:This is a problem not just besetting AT&T

[Nadaka]

... Some of the places here provide coffee, a tent, and insulation strippers...

You know copper recycling is profitable if they can afford to provide strippers.

Re:This is a problem not just besetting AT&T

[Anonymous Coward]

You know copper recycling is profitable if they can afford to provide strippers.

They only strip off their insulation, their thinner clothing stays on.

Re:This is a problem not just besetting AT&T

[Darinbob]

It happens during construction and remodeling too, as often security guards aren't hired to protect empty buildings.

A few years ago the San Jose police had a nice sting. They put up actual paper fliers around offering to buy copper, and then set up a recycling center store front. When word got out that they'd buy anything, people actually showed up with stolen cars, drugs, guns, and even a guy selling bombs.

Re:This is a problem not just besetting AT&T

[mlts]

I think that is exactly a tool that might need to be used more, although it takes resources and manpower from an already strained system (and property crimes are low on the list in general) -- more sting operations like that. Perhaps even a recycling center that is persistant, but is able to keep tabs on the perps just for evidence reasons.

A long term sting like that would do three things -- make the thieves doing that leery of recycling centers in general, throw a number in prison, and perhaps help find other centers that knowingly accept stolen goods and shut them down from info given by questioning.

Re:This is a problem not just besetting AT&T

[interkin3tic]

Some of the places here provide coffee, a tent, and insulation strippers.

What is the tent for? "Methhead just stripped all the copper out of the last relative's house who let him stay there and now has no other place to go" I'm assuming?

Re:This is a problem not just besetting AT&T

[Anonymous Coward]

Recycling seems easy to be profitable, from what I can find, copper is $4.00 a pound and most recyclers pay $2.00 a pound for wire. However I can't figure out how stealing it is profitable. at $2 a pound it take 50 ft of 12awg wire to make $2, the time required to pull out that much wire just seems to make it not worth it. Maybe stealing the 0 or 00 awg wire going into a house (1-3ft per pound) might be faster, but make sure you turned that off before you touch it. I even hear of stealing telephone cable which is probably 22-24awg that means you have to get 500-800ft of the stuff, for $2!

Re:This is a problem not just besetting AT&T

[tsstahl]

Do you really expect "Sal" at the yard to recognize a pendulum from a century old clock?

Re:This is a problem not just besetting AT&T

[gknoy]

I imagine that the tent is to provide shade and perhaps air conditioning (?) to sit in while one sits on a chair and takes the time to strip the insulation from the wire.

Re:This is a problem not just besetting AT&T

[Beardo the Bearded]

Yes, that's exactly what the tent is for. No A/C, but it provides shade / rain cover / windscreen / cat repellent, depending on the weather.

Re:This is a problem not just besetting AT&T

[Pootie Tang]

No really, parking meters. They started stealing the parking meters.

So every cloud has a silver lining?

Re:This is a problem not just besetting AT&T

[arth1]

With near 10% of the population having exhausted or not qualified for unemployment benefits, and little hope of getting a job, any way to get money becomes attractive. And frankly, I prefer if they become thieves instead of robbers.

If people could be reasonably sure of getting jobs, the amount of crime would go down; if the minimum wage was more akin to what it is in other industrial countries, it would quite possibly even go down to the level of those countries.
Of course, it's completely unrealistic to think that this will ever happen here in the US, where people have a phobia against socialism.

Re:This is a problem not just besetting AT&T

[The lockjaw]

Your right a chain of custody would be great, the problem is the metal scrap yards do have requierments with ID's and having a card from your company and waiting for the money. if this was working we would not be responding to this story and the best defense is a deterrent at the point of access and most wire is taken from in ground splice boxes with a concrete lid that might or might not have the bolts in place and thats why Sipra Corp came out with The Lockjaw!

Go for the buyers

[Scrameustache]

If they're stealing the stuff it's because someone is paying them to do so, go after those thieves.

Re:Go for the buyers

[Anonymous Coward]

around here, they are HOMELESS.

I know people who buy direct from the homeless, accumulate large pounds, and then scrap it for bigger profit.

If people are taking apart the infrastructure of society, then maybe we should look at our values. Outside of corporate psychopaths, people don't destroy their society for minimal profits.

Re:Go for the buyers

[Anonymous Coward]

Outlaw copper!

Why not Dallas, TX?

[DontLickJesus]

From personal experience: This is usually performed by meth heads. Give a bounty for Dallas, I can point out an entire neighborhood of them.

Re:Why not Dallas, TX?

[blair1q]

I wonder what would happen if you rounded them up and took them out to a mine and gave them picks.

Re:Why not Dallas, TX?

[h4rr4r]

If you promised meth in exchange for whatever you want out of the ground you would get a lot of digging and some amount of killing each other. On the whole I bet it would be a very productive mine.

Re:Why not Dallas, TX?

[GaryOlson]

The unions would sign them all up, take their dues, then send them on strike.

Re:Why not Dallas, TX?

[blair1q]

Probably the right thing to do. Make their employers pay for rehab instead of putting more meth into them.

Re:Why not Dallas, TX?

[tibman]

But then they lose their incentive to work so hard : (

Re:Why not Dallas, TX?

[blair1q]

Better pay and benefits is plenty incentive. If it's good enough for the CEO, it's good enough for the guy with the pick.

Re:Why not Dallas, TX?

[snspdaarf]

Burn the pick off the handle and take it to a scrap metal recycling center.

Re:Why not Dallas, TX?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mining was never something you could do high, and it's gotten a lot more complicated. They'd probably end up getting themselves killed.

Re:Why not Dallas, TX?

[ekgringo]

So, problem solved then?

Evolution in action

[TheTrueScotsman]

Nobody will be interested in stealing fiber. Sounds like a win-win (except for AT&T's insurance company).

Re:Evolution in action

[SnarfQuest]

Why do you think that? Some people will steal the most worthless crap, expecting to get rich from it. In fact there have been wars fought over crap (look at the wikipedia article on guano). Stealing fibre-optic cable, which can be used to make Christmas orniments, isn't out of the question.

Re:Evolution in action

[compro01]

They'll steal fibre too. Or just end up mangling the fibre while looking for copper.

Sign of the Times

[Infonaut]

What a sad commentary on the state of the nation.

Re:Sign of the Times

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, when the government takes 1/3 of your minimal pay... copper starts to look like a good source of untaxed income. (who's going to report that?)

Re:Sign of the Times

[YrWrstNtmr]

State of the nation? You don't seriously think this is new, do you?

Re:Sign of the Times

[Skater]

Or confined to the USA...

Scrap dealers; police who don't have time?

[Relayman]

No mention is made of the role of the scrap dealers (aka fences) and a lack of police work. In Ohio, you have to provide a picture identification when you get money at a scrap yard. Oh, and if the material is stolen, the scrap yard has to give it back without any compensation (unless they get it back from their customer). But I'm seeing a trend in policing: Personal crime (armed robbery, assault, murder) is given much higher priority than property crime. Phone cables can be replaced, and a lot of people make good money doing it so it actually helps some who are not criminals. I'm just sayin'...

Re:Scrap dealers; police who don't have time?

[Drummergeek0]

That reminds me of the speech Gary Oldman gave in the Fifth Element

Re:Scrap dealers; police who don't have time?

[Abstrackt]

Phone cables can be replaced, and a lot of people make good money doing it so it actually helps some who are not criminals. I'm just sayin'...

This reminds me of the parable of the broken window.

Re:Scrap dealers; police who don't have time?

[SnarfQuest]

Guess where this money comes from to pay for the repairs. In essence, you are saying

Yea! My phone bill is going up! Yahoo!

Re:Scrap dealers; police who don't have time?

[ottothecow]

Phone cables can be replaced, and a lot of people make good money doing it so it actually helps some who are not criminals. I'm just sayin'...

fallacy alert!

Re:Scrap dealers; police who don't have time?

[khallow]

But I'm seeing a trend in policing: Personal crime (armed robbery, assault, murder) is given much higher priority than property crime.

The trend has been going on for a while. I was on a trial where a key part of the jury interview was asking about peoples' interactions with law enforcement. I think a bit less than 20 people had experienced property crime (mostly car break-ins and a few burglaries) and one person had experienced personal crime (there could have been more, several people did the interview privately). The only crime where someone was caught for it was the personal crime (a mugging where a suspect was found later that night). Actually, now that I think of it, there was a case where an ex-roommate stole a bunch of stuff. That got recovered IIRC.

Every property crime case (aside from the ex-roommate case) went the same way. The report was issued with the police. While (unknown to us) the culprit may have been caught for some other crime, none of the property was ever recovered (at least as far as I remembered) nor anyone charged for the crime. The police usually warned that this would happen. By the end of the interview process, you'd sometimes get a giggle from jury members when the next prospective juror started talking about his experience with property crime.

This is all just a big anecdote from California, a state notorious for poor enforcement of law. But it seems to me that there is a serious problem with the lack of enforcement of property law. While I expect personal crimes to be pursued more aggressively, simply because someone's health was at risk, the inability to punish property crime seems astounding to me. I'm not surprised that people are stealing basic infrastructure now. If police don't catch up, it'll get worse.

Re:Scrap dealers; police who don't have time?

[wagnerrp]

Phone cables can be replaced, and a lot of people make good money doing it so it actually helps some who are not criminals. I'm just sayin'...

They're causing in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of property damage for at most a few hundred dollars in scrap metal. The cost for unnecessary repairs eventually trickles down to higher prices for goods and services from those companies. They are a worthless drain on society. There is no way you can claim there is any benefit.

Be careful

[Y-Crate]

I don't want to see any of you heartless punks turning in Bubbles.

oh please..

[Anonymous Coward]

Only a 3k reward ? Seems the profit from the theft is a bit higher.

Re:who is dumb enough to go a electrical substatio

[Relayman]

The people who see it rolled up on big spools...

There are worse things

[Locke2005]

Like stealing statues, then selling them at one thousandth of their value as scrap metal: here

the comcast office has lots them just setting in t

[Joe The Dragon]

the comcast office has lots them just setting in the back.

Wow, a whole $3000???

[elrous0]

I can definitely see why someone would put their life at risk by snitching on criminals, for that kind of reward. They could live like a king!

That's even more than I could get for finding that lost dog!

Re:Wow, a whole $3000???

[SnarfQuest]

That's even more than I could get for finding that lost dog!

I don't think you'll get the full value for what's left of your dinner.

Re:Wow, a whole $3000???

[PitaBred]

Given how relatively little money they make from the scrap sales (only $4/lb, even if they carried 100lbs it's only $400), $3000 is enough to make one meth-head turn on another I'd wager.

Welcome to Detroit

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously. Welcome to Detroit.

Re:Final Solution

[gwayne]

Zon't you mean, zat shtraay apostrophe veel cost you your live?

So this is why AT&T hasn't burried my cable ye

[kj_kabaje]

I have a new-ish house where there wasn't originally a phone line. I added AT&T service about a month ago and they have yet to bury it. It seems like they're not too serious about this issue.

Re:also biggest target for menards/home depot/lowe

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you have a little paranoia for breakfast?

Looking in the wrong direction

[mcspoo]

Maybe I'm being a fool here but... they wouldn't steal copper if there weren't corrupt metal buyers out there. I mean, why the heck would a scrap yard accept X feet of copper wire if he shows up in his pickup? For all the press on this issue (and there's a lot of it here in Detroit), there's never any real discussion of fining or doing ANYTHING to discourage the metal buyers from accepting obviously stolen materials. Until such steps are taken (i.e. real penalties for accepting stolen cable, pipes, etc), then any licensing isn't going to much help, is it?

Re:Looking in the wrong direction

[Spectre]

why the heck would a scrap yard accept X feet of copper wire if he shows up in his pickup

Because there are plenty of perfectly valid reasons to have "X feet of copper wire" to dispose of.

I demolished an abandoned one hundred year old farmhouse on my property.

The wiring from it was not worth re-using (wire not up to current code standards).

Turned all of the old wiring in for the scrap, it was worth more than any other class of item salvaged from the demolition.

Re:Looking in the wrong direction

[CrAlt]

Rolling up to the scrap yard is with some old knob and tube copper wiring would seem legit...
Rolling up to the scrap yard with some newish 250 pair aerial phone wire with AT&T logo's on the side and all does not.

I scrap things all the time in my auto hobby. I think its kinda easy to spot the things that may be stolen.. Like where does a guy with meth rash and no teeth come across 7 good looking saws-alled off catalitic converters? Or car batteries with the terminals just ripped off? Or radiators that arnt even corroded looking?

The scrap yards know alot of the stuff they take in is stolen. They just don't care.
All they would have to do with scan ID's and roll some video tape if they wanted to stop it.

i can see the headline now

[shadowrat]

Once they bust this copper theft ring the papers will proclaim:
"Coppers put Stopper on Copper Choppers"

Re:i can see the headline now

[Llamalarity]

Only if the Kleptos name is Claude Cooper.

Re:i can see the headline now

[Anonymous Coward]

The word 'cop' is slang for 'steal'. So, that could also be "Coppers put stopper on copper coppers".

Re:i can see the headline now

[ChrisMaple]

Coppers catch copper coppers who cop a plea on copper caper.

Re:i can see the headline now

[Anonymous Coward]

How about "Coppers Collar Copper Choppers"?

Penny mining

[RevWaldo]

Of course ne'er-do-wells have resorted to stealing copper wire, ever since The Man made melting down pennies a federal crime. US pennies and nickels are technically worth more as metal than their face value. (I can't source it but I recall reading that before the new regulation was made a company was actually gearing up to enter the penny-melting business until the feds put the kibosh on it.)

.

Re:Penny mining

[Nimey]

Because of course it makes more sense to forbid that than it does to stop minting the damned things already.

Then they turned around and spent money /redesigning/ the penny. Where do they find these people?

Re:Penny mining

[Idiomatick]

Pennies are 2.5% copper in the US (Since 1982). I don't think it is very profitable anymore. They haven't been pure copper since 1857, and they have been brass more recently until 1982.

Re:Penny mining

[Relayman]

The company you're thinking of is Jackson Metals of Jackson, Ohio. They wanted to process five billion pennies a year, melting down many of the ones made before 1982 (due to their higher copper content) and redistributing the newer ones nationwide to eliminate shortages. Here's an article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer about their plan.

Re:Penny mining

[toddestan]

I still get enough of the pre-1982 ones in change that it seems like it could be worthwhile. Order a bunch of cents, separate out the copper ones, and turn the zincolns back in. If I ran Coinstar, I would seriously be considering this if it wasn't illegal. Of course, if someone started an operation like this on a large scale, the pre-1982 ones would probably disappear practically overnight, much like the silver did in the mid 1960's.

Re:Penny mining

[RevWaldo]

Zinc could also be profitable if the timing is right. At one point in 2006 it exceed $2/pound, while 181 post-1982 pennies weigh one pound.

.

Mad Max

[macraig]

Life imitates art again: welcome to the world of Mad Max. Water ain't the only finite resource. Have you had the catalytic converter stolen off your SUV yet?

Re:the comcast office has lots them just setting i

[Anonymous Coward]

Comcast and other CATV systems have been using Aluminum coaxial cable for years, not copper. ...but then again, aluminum is bringing scrap price of 40 cents per pound around here right now.

No

[Anonymous Coward]

Resistance was futile.

Copper theft-Vigilante justice.

[Anonymous Coward]

And one guess as to who will be footing the bill for that transformer, and no it will not be the power company. Let copper theft start costing the common man and vigilante justice will take care of the problem.

Re:also biggest target for menards/home depot/lowe

[gknoy]

If they have an issue with copper theft, I see nothing wrong with a plainclothes security guard nearby. It's less disruptive to other customers than a uniformed one, I imagine. Your messing with them is basically just real-life trolling. What's the point?

Re:also biggest target for menards/home depot/lowe

[MichaelKristopeit180]

the point is that i find individuals operating under the assumption of crime and the necessity of their occupation insulting to my presence.

pretending to be something you're not is disruptive to my sensibilities. i imagine you don't care. i also imagine you're an idiot.

i suppose that's the point... TOO MANY IDIOTS.

Maybe the invisible hand....

[TomRC]

Maybe the invisible hand of the market is trying to tell them something - like

"Copper is too valuable to leave lying around - look for alternatives, such as the fiber optic lines Telcos were suppost to install to people's homes as part of the now ancient de-regulation deal."

Re:Maybe the invisible hand....

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the invisible hand of the market is trying to tell them something - like:

if you don't get people good educations,
keep them off drugs,
and give them opportunities to earn a honest buck,
but rather let symbol-pushers wreck the economy
while bleeding it dry
instead of enforcing the regulations you already have,
these kinds of things will happen

with increasing frequency.

Re:Maybe the invisible hand....

[SleazyRidr]

Burma shave?

Big problem in the Phoenix area

[rickb928]

Among the issues here in the valley(registration may be required):

Mesa has spent $100,000 this year replacing wiring in parks and rec areas.

These idiots were caught stealing from a home, among other things, wiring. Vacant homes get stripped regularly, taking even the internal wiring.

And there was a story this spring of a daycare center that shut down for a daty because their windoww-mount air conditioner was stolen. These get sold as salvage for the copper coils.

Despite having to sign for stuff, the thieves are doing well. And it's not a problem of illegal immigrants stealing copper to feed their familes - plenty of regular everyday residents are in on this. This moron got caught stealing the wire out of freeway lights. Nice.

I'm not hopeful that we'll see any letup in this here. More homes going empty. Not enough jobs returning. Scrap dealers can't do much more.

Land of opportunity, baby!

Re:also biggest target for menards/home depot/lowe

[CrAlt]

They are the ones getting paid by the hour.

Your are the one wasting your day moving spools of wire around..

Ya.. They are the IDIOTS..

"disruptive to my sensibilities."... troll much?

Re:also biggest target for menards/home depot/lowe

[MichaelKristopeit162]

i drop my wife off at the target next door... i have time to waste.

Hah!

[PPH]

My house is wired with aluminum wiring. Lets see the thieves~po_~{po ~poz~ppo\~{ o NO CARRIER

T1s go missing too...

[Jayfar]

I work for an ISP and recall, I think it was last year or maybe early this year, that one of our Atlanta data customers had 3 circuit down trouble tickets over the span of several months where the reason for outage ultimately turned out to be theft of telco cable. 3 times!!!

Its the economy, stupid

[Trinn]

If everyone in the country (we'll say just the citizens for now but it should eventually extend to all citizens of the world) were given enough resources (cash, aid, whatever) *by default* to take care of food, shelter, clothing, health care, all the basics *required to live*, then this sort of thing would be far less attractive. (this would mean doing away with most/all specific programs, minimum wage, etc., and replacing it with a basic income that all citizens get in one form or another, guaranteed to be enough to live on wherever you happen to be living, leaving people free to pay more sensible amounts, and opening the way for more socially-oriented work to happen (volunteer work, large work projects that don't pay but get something done for your town/city/county/state/etc., etc. -- people *want* to make their world nicer, and will if they aren't constantly afraid of dying of starvation/exposure/etc.)

This gets the [federal/state] government out of the business of specific social projects (save perhaps a single-payer nationalized healthcare system, those seem to work a lot better and kill off the stupid amounts the insurance companies get for no real reason) -- local governments would probably be *more* likely under this system to spend money on social projects as well since workers come a good bit cheaper, etc., b/c instead the progressive income tax goes to pay for everyone's basic needs under this sort of system), of course nobody wants to implement this at the higher levels because they're all afraid of losing all that power they've amassed, but it needs to happen. Too much centralized power kills a system, this has happened in every society where it happens, the fat cats of all stripes steal from everyone else in various "legal" ways and then set up all sorts of scarecrows to distract the citizen, or to convince them they can have a piece of the pie too if they just work themselves half to death in the process, when most of them lucked into it by accident of birth. I also propose significant inheritance tax, progressively graduated like income tax is, so small inheritances aren't a big deal but 100B worth would have something like a 50% tax or more, this should help defuse the whole fat cat system, especially if this tax is strictly to go to paying the basic income for the nation

Hopefully needless to say, the basic income, coming from the government as it is, is not to be taxed, otherwise again we're implementing a poor tax, which is one of the stupidest ideas ever economically, right up there with non-luxury sales taxes. (luxury item taxes are different, and could even just be done as a progressively graduated thing, i.e. you buy something for $500M and you have to pay some serious tax, but for $500 is likely untaxed.)

</rant>

Re:Its the economy, stupid

[Relayman]

Sorry, your rant misses the underlying factor of this increase in metals theft: drug abuse. Most of these people are meth heads or oxycontin addicts. Their addiction makes it hard to keep a job and also requires a bit of money to support the habit. Metals theft is better correlated with the price of scrap metal and was increasing before the economy tanked.

Re:Its the economy, stupid

[Trinn]

I only have one way to reply to this and that's by calling bullshit. Drugs are everyone's favorite scapegoat but guess what? I've had my share of experience with things you may never expect, including at least one of the things you mentioned, but drugs do not lead to unemployment nor do they lead to theft, on the other hand, people with very little to begin with, and with damn good reasons to be depressed often turn to drugs, and without good drug education (only stupid DARE propaganda), people don't realize the risks they're taking and are unaware of how things are actually impacting their lives (unless they are lucky enough to be able to educate themselves on the topic, which is still fairly rare)

If you disagree, see the Rat Park experiment, the Addiction theory of drug [ab]use is, for the most part, bullshit. (I don't dispute the existance of withdrawal syndromes but that's another issue).

I've done heroin before, I've done meth before, (only 1-2 times each, didn't end up liking them all that much compared to other things), and I'm no slave to any substance, by choice and force of will, and by the effort I've undertaken to educate myself on what the full effects of each substance are, both neurochemically and individually. Were it not for prohibition and prohibitionist propaganda, drug problems would be mostly a thing of the past, IMHO.

Re:Its the economy, stupid

[Relayman]

There's one phrase that seems to be to be the foundation of your argument: "accident of birth." Assuming you're talking about the United States, this country is still a meritocracy. Not many people can get rich holding down a 40-hour-a-week job, but some do and the barriers to start your own business are low. As someone who is self-employed, I'm not rich, but I have no need to steal copper wires to pay my bills either.

Re:Its the economy, stupid

[Trinn]

This country has never been a meritocracy. Since its inception, despite the wonderful propaganda put out to suggest otherwise, this country like almost any other I've ever heard of is ruled by the elite, with only a few notable exceptions in various major offices over the past 200+ years. If this were truly a meritocracy then the backgrounds of the leaders would reflect the average set of backgrounds, which would have you expect a set of leaders that mostly comes from non-privileged backgrounds since most of the people (far more than half) are from what most would agree are non-privileged backgrounds, but the truth is the leaders in this (and most other that I've studied) country are those who already have plenty, and always have had plenty.

They are so far removed from reality they often have little or no idea what it is like to need to worry about the rent or their next meal (thus the anemic social programs in this country, well that and that they are far too complicated, basic income would be so much cheaper, far less bureaucracy needed). And yes I am talking about the United States, as it is the country I've had the most experience with.

Re:Its the economy, stupid

[Relayman]

John Boehner, the incoming Speaker of the House, was one of 12 kids growing up in Reading, Ohio (a suburb of Cincinnati). His family is certainly not part of the elite. Here's an article about his upbringing.

Jeffrey Immelt, chairman of the board and CEO of General Electric, grew up in Finneytown (actually Springfield Township near Cincinnati) and his parents were a schoolteacher and a manager at GE (oooh, maybe there's that elite you're talking about). Here's his Wikipedia entry.

That's just two examples among millions of people who have done better than their parents did. Some people blame "The Man" or the elite for their own inability to get ahead in life. I hope this isn't you.

not "everything but the kitchen sink"...

[darkonc]

I once had some metal thieves break into my house. They took my tools and then went into the basement where they ripped out the copper plumbing (doing immense damage to the ceilings and walls)... then they actually took the f*$king kitchen sink.

If I ever find the creeps, they'll rue the day.....

Re:also biggest target for menards/home depot/lowe

[DerekLyons]

I suspect that has more to do with you acting like a thief than anything else - I'm routinely in that aisle and it's almost always empty.

Re:also biggest target for menards/home depot/lowe

[MichaelKristopeit136]

i do not act like a thief.

Off to Gitmo for them.

[RockDoctor]

The FBI has said in the past that the rising theft of the metal is threatening the critical infrastructure

That's terrorist action then. Off to Gitmo, sentence is death under torture. Bring the bodies back and display them in their home areas in a gibbet.

Glad to see it happen

[Anonymous Coward]

Anything that costs ATT in Atlanta money I am glad to see it happen. After all they have been stealing from us for years. Turn about is fair play.

The cost of theft of copper

[The lockjaw]

The cost is not only in dollars but also in the cost of public safety when phone lines don't work and our kids are at home and if something happens they can't call 911, the railroad crossing arms don't work and a car load of kids pulls on to the tracks or the street lights are out and your wife's car breaks down and she's stuck in the dark. We came up with a solution and it's being used in Clovis, Ca with ZERO thefts or outages from protected splice boxes and they were spending $25,000 a month in theft replacement, look for yourself s and post your thoughts and watch the installation by a middle aged overweight man in 100 plus heat on youtube under sipracorp.

Re:also biggest target for menards/home depot/lowe

[Sardaukar86]

go down the wire isle and you're almost guaranteed to be approached by a security guard posing as a shopper.... "$15M for this store and the lanes are so small, right? what's the deal?"

i usually pick up the biggest spool i can a few times and turn it over, then leave then come back and do it a few times just to watch them dance and attempt to continue their charade.

copper is more lucrative than gold in leveraging society. it is required in abundance.

Is this what you do for your pathetic kicks? You truly are a fucked-up individual. Why don't you do yourself and society a grand favour and use one of your many firearms to blow out your festering brains?

My apologies, that would be something useful; quite beyond your abilities.

Jesus motherfucking Christ, you post this drivel then have the gall to to call other people idiots.. you're nothing but a fucking oxygen thief.

Re:also biggest target for menards/home depot/lowe

[Sardaukar86]

why do you cower? what are you afraid of?

you're completely pathetic.

Oh would you just fuck off, you gutless, mindless droning robot.

Re:also biggest target for menards/home depot/lowe

[Sardaukar86]

i drop my wife off at the target next door... i have time to waste.

Yeah, we can see you've got plenty of time to waste, judging by the puerile snivellings you leave here on slashdot like so many rat turds.

You're completely fucking pathetic.

Re:also biggest target for menards/home depot/lowe

[MichaelKristopeit193]

is this what you do for your pathetic kicks?

you're an idiot.

if you'd like a firearms demonstration, come to my home. you have cowered in my shadow and refused to provide yours.

you are completely pathetic.

cower some more, feeb.

Re:also biggest target for menards/home depot/lowe

[MichaelKristopeit195]

and you have plenty of time to... what are you doing again? RESPONDING TO ME?

ur mum's face like so many rat turds.

you are exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING.

cower some more, feeb.

Re:you're an idiot

[SleazyRidr]

Thanks for changing the topic, the other one was a bit long and taking up too much of the screen to be able to read it easily.