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Microsoft Puts the Kibosh On Kinect Sex Game Plans
theodp writes "Microsoft's Kinect has been out for less than two months and already there's an adult company looking to produce a 3-D sex game for the Xbox 360 console. But Microsoft immediately shot down any speculation that the game will pass the certification process. 'This isn't the first example of a technology being used in ways not intended by its manufacturer, and it won't be the last,' a Microsoft spokesman said in a statement. 'Microsoft did not authorize or license its technology for this use. Xbox is a family friendly games and entertainment console and does not allow Adults Only content to be certified for use on its platform, and would not condone this type of game for Kinect.'"
Xbox is a family friendly games and entertainment console
Well how do they think people get families? Duh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bk7AMY_ocU&has_verified=1
Make the game for PC/Mac/Linux.. the Kinect just plugs right in.
How we know is more important than what we know.
america is the one with tit fear, not humans as a whole.
Sent from my PDP-11
Fuck you, Microsoft. ;-)
Yes, thank you for that wonderful insight, but rather than that, this is again a case that is much bigger than what people are seeing - or bigger than some people want it to be.
Does a company really have the power to decide who and what can be developed for a piece of hardware it makes? Today they are saying no to an adult game. Okay, sure, I wouldn't want my kids getting their hands on this game, but that is up to ME as the parent to monitor and choose.
I thought this was part of American "First Sale" doctrine? As in, once someone buys it, they are allowed to do anything they like with it? I would say a lot of people will agree with this choice today, but what happens when the precident is already set and they start making decisions that folks don't actually like?
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I don't have any objection to Microsoft refusing to certify whatever software they don't want to certify, for whatever reason they choose. If "not certified" means "won't run on Xbox", then perhaps the market will exist for alternatives, such as the Kinect-to-Linux setup already mentioned. (Or maybe not; porn seems to be aimed at the least common denominator, as evidenced by the fact that it's mostly crap.)
But it's somewhat ridiculous to say that the reason for denying such apps is that the Xbox is "a family friendly games and entertainment console". By that standard, any number of violent games should be excluded, from Bioshock to Stubbs the Zombie. Sure, "Family Friendly" is a fuzzy, undefinable term -- heck, you could make the argument that Portal would make little children sad (oh, how I miss the Companion Cube).
Reject the app because it's explicitly sexual. Or because it's poorly written, which is equally likely. But don't rack in Christmas sales of Call of Duty while saying the Xbox is "family friendly".
[insert obligatory Microsoft-is-evil throwaway line here]
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
You are allowed to do anything you want with your console. Microsoft isn't obligated to make it easy for you, however.
you just know that there must be someting in the License of their products that states: "No one can screw our costumer, but us!"
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you and to hear the lamentations of their women.
Not so much the not making a sex game, after all just because it is based on sex doesn't mean the game would be any good at all, but the "We won't certify AO games." Screw you. I get rather tired of ratings systems working so that the highest rating is effectively a ban. You see this all the time. When was the last time you saw an AO game? How about an NC-17 movie?
The thing is I'm not even after sexual titles, I'm just after something that perhaps has more adult content, and that can include violence or disturbing topics, than allowed by an M/R rating. However because companies like MS and Walmart (Walmart won't sell AO/NC-17 titles) get all prudish about it, we can't have that.
Also the amount of sexual content that push something to that limit is stupidly small. For example: Ever see American Pie? How about the unrated version? If you have seen the original, but not the unrated version, and some time has passed, I encourage you to get and watch the unrated version. Then when you are done, see if you can even tell what the difference was. It is extremely minor, only a few scenes with minor alterations. What's the deal then? Well the "unrated" version was the original cut, as the director wanted. However the MPAA said they'd have to hang an NC-17 on it, which means no theater would play it. So the director made the cuts they wanted to get an R rating. It was then released unrated (remember ratings are 100% voluntary) on DVD later. However were it rated, it'd get an NC-17 and thus nobody would carry it.
It annoys me greatly. I don't mind content ratings, I can appreciate how they are a useful guide for parents, particularly since with $50-60 videogames "Just buy it and play it first," isn't a viable plan. However I get tired of them being used as effective censorship. Just rate the games and sell them dammit, let the market decide.
So does Ford. I can't make and sell a Mustang unless Ford says I can use that name and their parts. But I can buy a fucking Mustang and do what I like with it and resell it. I can also make shit to add onto the Mustang without Ford having right to say what is what. Somehow just because a device now incorporates electronics to provide the core sum of its functionality that right is taken away? Bullshit. It's like Ford being able to sue someone because they used an F150 to flee a ban robbery, or refuse to sell and Aztek to a teen because they might have sex in the back seat.
I wish people would not use vacuous euphemisms like "family friendly" when they really mean "free of explicit sexual content". The "family" label is so silly in my eyes, since without sex, there would be no children and thus no families. If Microsoft wants to restrict the subject matter of their games, I'd like them to at least be up front about the type of control and censorship they are exercising. And personally? I think it's rather hypocritical given the ubiquity of violence used in video games. My personal opinion is generally that "sex is good, violence is bad", so if I were going to target one or the other, I would cut out the explicit violence before I started any sort of censorship of explicit sexual content. Make love, not war!
Short of some kind of console hack, I'd guess Microsoft could make it nearly impossible for customers to run the game. I'm not a lawyer, but I'd think they have every right to do this.
Though the other big question is, if they're happy with Activision selling many millions of copies of COD games, where kids run around murdering each other with guns, hatchets, napalm, etc... how is a sex game totally inappropriate for their "family platform"? No doubt it reflects the opinions of the market, but it seems a little bizarre to me that we have such a problem with sex, but not extreme violence.
Personally, I have no problem with either. Maybe I'm messed up.
Virtual sex is not family friendly... it is somehow hard to make babies like that
In other news, the "House & Garden" magazine is not family friendly because it's hard to buy a house if you see pictures of houses. Also, the "Car & Driver" magazine was found to be not car friendly, because people will not buy a car if they see the picture of one.
How many times do we have to explain this to people? Sniping, hand-to-hand, rocket launchers, rail guns, grenades, claymores and even nuclear attacks are ALL "good family oriented fun" and of course Grand Theft Auto is just good clean fun. But sex? NO! That's just dirty and no one ever does that.
It's hard to argue with the "Holier than thou" attitude we're seeing a lot these days. There will be no-one within Microsoft who can stand up and say "Enough!" as the retort will be, "So you don't believe in protecting the children then?" (or "You are supporting the terrorists then", or "Supporting transparent government is helping getting our boys killed", or any other position that no reasonable person would take - yet not a direct or certain consequence of opting for real freedom). This is how most social/political groups get more and more radical over time (expect this trend to accelerate with Microsoft now a precedent has been set). The "nanny corporation" makes out (lol) as if having fun during sex is taboo. Since when did technologists adopt the old puritannical position (lol) of "Oh no, you only do it for procreation"? (in a married relationship, in the bedroom only, in the authorized missionary position, in the front-door only [lurlz] etc etc).
Sure, having smut in front of young children is not desirable, but c'mon, have you seen a music video lately (probably not if think a Zune would be cool for your sounds)? Also, Microsoft have no problem with their devices being used to represent (in increasingly high definition) people being dismembered, gutted, run over, shot, bombed, zapped, crushed, stabbed, exploded, etc. etc. on their console but can't stand to have people have natural human relations while also messing around with an XBox. "Just think of the shareholders" is a ridiculous excuse for being so heavy handed to their development partners and clients.
What gets put on an XBox should be at the discretion of the owners and the marketplace supplying those owners, provided all relevant laws are adhered to. Both adults and parents can manage that with enough the need of a nanny state or nanny corporation just as they already can manage what is on their DVD player or computer (and if they can't, they can purchase from a large range of software to sort it out for them). Microsoft are as big dickheads as Apple (for all you haters out there slamming Apple as if they were the only ones).
Simple solution. Don't reward Microsoft by buying or giving an XBox. Corporates only listen to money, and they notice trends, so do your duty.
You are allowed to do anything you want with your console. Microsoft isn't obligated to make it easy for you, however.
It's funny how their decision-making parallels American television censorship customs.
Want to show a hardcore war-themed game? Ok. Does it involve gruesome up-close violence? That's fine. Showing someone getting their head blown off at point-blank range with a shotgun? That's alright, just make sure it's realistic.
Want to show a pair of breasts? Not cool. Does it involve graphic depictions of sex between consentual adults? Not acceptable. That'd be obscene, and we will use licensing and any other means available to shut you down.
The message? Graphic violence is OK and normal and natural. Sex is obscene, uncommon, not a part of normal adult life, and must not be shown for any reason.
Anybody else think maybe we have this backwards?
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
Maybe; that question is very similar to the legality of jailbreaking and such.
Does a company really have the power to decide who and what can be developed for a piece of hardware it makes?
Mostly indirectly. A company can control:
I thought this was part of American "First Sale" doctrine?
First Sale relates to resale rights, and (AFAIK IANAL) probably not much else. See wikipedia.
So, Microsoft can't stop you and your friends from making a non-distributed, privately used sex game for the kinect using entirely your own software and not distributing that game publically (of course, good luck with that.) If they can, that's bogus and your concerns about slippery slopes and the ability to limit freedoms are probably more justified.
All in all, I don't see much problem with this. History proves that if Microsoft gets too restrictive, both free and proprietary solutions will provide viable alternatives to those of us concerned with freedom.
If you don't like it, buy a different product.
name one that does the same thing.
this is why i do not like this argument - it implies the free market will average out all the arseholes into niceness, but as soon as companies start following similar "party lines", competition in this respect becomes useless. you're just choosing between walled gardens in slightly different colours and layouts.
I remember way back when I bought PC Gamer there was a letter to the mag complaining about FEAR's frequent swearing. They agreed with him too. I guess sex and swearing is far more deplorable than the cannibalism, dismemberment and showers of blood in that game..
MS can not stop the development of this game since it is not, nor has it ever been, made for the 360. The game is made for the PC using the open Kinect drivers available everywhere on the web.
I remember way back when I bought PC Gamer there was a letter to the mag complaining about FEAR's frequent swearing. They agreed with him too. I guess sex and swearing is far more deplorable than the cannibalism, dismemberment and showers of blood in that game..
Which is completely ridiculous. These games and the ratings systems attached to them are designed for marketing to adults. Do you know any adults who have never before heard swearing?
It reminds me of that Janet Jackson incident during the Super Bowl. One breast was exposed. The FCC had to "crack down" by issuing stiff fines and penalties for the network(s) involved. That was for one breast. It was simple nudity and didn't involve any genitals. No sex was depicted there. The whole thing was a tremendous overreaction.
It's the kind of shit that makes the USA look like a bunch of unreasonable prudes before the rest of the world. This deal with video games isn't so different considering the amount of extreme violence (appropriate for a realistic war game, but quite violent all the same) that seems to be so acceptable.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
Xbox is a family friendly games and entertainment console
sure, check out the titles below. in the good ol' USA violence IS family friendly.
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas--"... mission includes murder, theft, and destruction on every imaginable level. Player recovers his health by visiting prostitutes then recovers funds by beating them to death and taking their money. Player can wreak as much havoc as he likes without progressing through the game's storyline."
God of War--"Player becomes a ruthless warrior, seeking revenge against the gods who tricked him into murdering his own family. Prisoners are burned alive and player can use 'finishing moves' to kill opponents, like tearing a victim in half."
NARC--"Player can choose between two narcotics agents attempting to take a dangerous drug off the streets and shut down the KRAK cartel while being subject to temptations including drugs and money. To enhance abilities, player takes drugs including pot, Quaaludes, ecstasy, LSD, and 'Liquid Soul'--which provides the ability to kick enemies' heads off."
and more!
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/gta4/news.html?sid=6140463
Wait, you are forced to have DRM On your disk ? Shouldn't the machine just check if the disk was a copied disk or something ? How fucked up is that!!
...for the PC, not the Xbox. I was pretty certain that was incredibly clear...did they announce something I'm unaware of?
0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
Mod Parent so up it shows on the moon! That is sooo true, and it doesn't stop at American TV. It's the same kinda cr*p here in Finland. Graphic Violence, Blood, Shooting - probably ok for a 12-14 years old kids (according to TV guidelines). Show a nipple (yes, bare nipple) - instant 16+ rating. Full frontal naked body (no sex, no masturbation, nothing, just whole body) - 18+ rating. I mean, how stupid are we? (funnies thing concerning this I've read - If a man's penis is erect and the angle is more than 45 degrees, you can't show it on television - at all, ever. Now I'm just imagining little old ladies with a degree-rules staring at penises on monitors :D)
But you can use the open kinect driver and make a PC game that uses the kinect.
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
Well, when you are as sexually frustrated as your average fundie, aggression is the natural outlet.
Yes, there are quite a few "commercial homebrew" titles for older consoles such as Atari 2600, Vectrex, Mega Drive, Neo Geo, and Dreamcast.
Circumcision is child abuse.
I think even the scenario of your kids getting your game is one scare that's blown out of proportion. It's letting them sneak the canard right back in that consoles are for kids, only this time in the form of necessarily having a kid around in some form or another. I wouldn't give them even that as a given.
The fact is, the average age for marriage in the USA has risen lately to 27 years old. Very likely more than that if you exclude the Amish. While they do breed more often and earlier, you don't really have to worry about those having XBoxes and Kinect. And averages are averages. There are people not touching marriage with a ten foot pole until the thirties or fourties or indeed never.
The child bearing age has risen too, year after year. To the extent that we can seriously start worrying more about genetic diseases for that factor alone. There are a lot of people who only have children in the thirties or fourties or indeed fifties. Again the Amish are screwing up the statistics a bit for the USA, but they don't have XBoxes. I suspect that if you looked at the rest of the people, you'd get something more similar to England and Wales (a somewhat similarly urbanized and industrialized country) where the average childbearing age is 29.4 years old. And it was already 28.4 a decade ago and climbed slowly but steadily ever since, so we're not looking at an isolated 2010 spike. And again, averages are averages. The gauss curve goes waay to the right of 29.4.
The fact is, there are plenty of legitimate buyers who _don't_ have children anywhere near their home. There are plenty of XBoxes around where really there is no child with access to it at all.
(Except maybe if some child commits breaking and entering to start playing with a stranger's console, in which case he has bigger problems than accidentally finding someone's porn game. I mean, it's pretty much the Arson, Murder and Jaywalking trope at that point.)
So, yeah, it's nice of MS to make their console mandatorily friendly to a lot of people's non-existing children. I eagerly await their also adjusting their ratings to protect the feelings of imaginary friends, imaginary pets and the Tooth Fairy.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
That difference depends entirely on you.
The fact is, you can't get away from sexual crap even if you only watch the Disney Channel. It's the fact that you think sex is inherently harmful to children proves that you already have the wrong idea engrained in your psyche. Let's draw another analogy that is closer to the truth of the matter:
Knives and Fire. They are not inherently bad. They are, however, bad if not handled properly. You can get cut, burned or even die if not properly respected. Sex is VERY similar in those respects.
So instead of teaching children (little girls and little boys) that sex is bad, dirty and they shouldn't do it (because the conflicting messages will exist and screw up their brains no matter how hard you try) teach them what and who it is for and what bad things can happen if they aren't careful. And most importantly, lead by example!!
It's really not that hard. Sex is *private." Good. We understand that easily enough -- we don't poop and pee in public too often. Sex is fun. There's no denying that -- it's such a natural need that no one needs to be told and telling people that their natural needs are "wrong" just screws up people's minds. Sex comes with risks and can result in a screwed up life!!! Teach children the TRUTH and lead by good example and it will work!!!
DON'T tell kids to eat properly while you don't and are an obese slob.
DON'T tell kids not to smoke while you remain addicted.
DON'T tell kids sex is bad while you are still doing it and that sex is what brought them into existence.
You are the reason kids are so screwed up and grow up into screwed up adults. And your parents and surrounding society is the reason you are screwed up. Break the cycle here and now.
The difference you see is purely religious cultural.
There's nothing I can say that will change your mind and I'll accept that. Back when I thought like you, no one could have told me anything either. (BTW, I'm so not a hipster. You really should look at my history here before you start making presumptions.) But one day, I hope, you will begin to see bits of reality and start making connections that you refused to see before.
Your job, as a parent is to teach your children how to be good adults. It is a bad assumption to believe that your job is to teach your children to be good children. To believe so is to ignore the reality that they will be adults one day. So tell them lies about the world they live in. Tell them lies about their own feelings and urges as they grow and develop. All you are doing is preventing them from learning about the world before the world teaches them the hard way.
Anybody else think maybe we have this backwards?
No, because sex and violence are hardly comparable.
Normal people don't yearn to kill someone when they see a mangled body. Normal people do yearn to fuck someone when they see a naked body. There's a bit of a difference.
I'm not saying it's good to glorify violence or that sex is evil and violence is not, but pretending that they're analogous categories is just silly.
We're raising a warrior tribe. Where tolerance of and comfort with violence and carnage is essential. And so is motivation based on sexual abstinence. How else do you expect us to mount the next Crusade?
Have gnu, will travel.
Kinect Sutra
Except, you haven't really gotten to the root of the issue. Any image or text designed to sexually arouse, will cause people to want to have sex. That's the entire advertising industry, other people, the beach, romance novels, most sci-fi novels etc. In a culture obsessed with sex, it is impossible to hide from attempts to stimulate sexual arousal. So is nudity intrinsically different? I would submit, no. In the right circumstances it can have greater arousal effect, but it is no worse than much of the carefully crafted arousal by advertising that deftly steps around explicit nudity (and yet is very public and accepted). The line there is arbitrary, and the only cultural impact is to now equate nudity with sex, which is hardly rational. As to your other point, I agree that equating the sex/violence angle is a bit of a strawman. They are different issues, but I think the poster is trying to show the hypocrisy in such a stance. This is clearly a console that allows adult only games.
Another aspect of it is, if they're so family-friendly, don't they understand how families are made?
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
The message? Graphic violence is OK and normal and natural. Sex is obscene, uncommon, not a part of normal adult life, and must not be shown for any reason.
Empires depend for their existence on the normalization of extreme violence against subject peoples. Therefore the normalization of violence is an important feature of any imperial system, from the Rome to Washington.
Human evolution has been driven primarily by mate-competition and sexual selection. As such sexuality is a powerful influencer of human behaviour. Make mating opportunities seem scarce and only available via socially approved means and you will have a high level of control of male behaviour.
To make this happen you will need a high level of control of female behaviour, which is most easily done by imbuing society with a great horror of sex and beating (sometimes literally) into women that if they have sex with men outside of socially approved circumstances they are evil, dispicable people.
Sexually liberal societies tend not to be particularly war-like. Sexually repressed societies tend to produce male violence in abundance, which finds many channels, from the freelance terrorism of the Nineteen Nitwits (18 of whom were from Saudi Arabia, 1 from Yemen) to the more extensive and organized violence carried out by the American and allied militaries.
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
Normal people do yearn to fuck someone when they see a naked body. There's a bit of a difference.
You're an American, aren't you?
Normal people who grow up in societies without the kind of bizzare fetishization and commericalization of sexuality that saturates American society do not yearn to fuck someone when they see a naked body. Sometimes we just look on appreciatively, somethings we think, "Whatever". Sometimes in the right circumstances we are aroused, but only someone who has grown up in a sexually dysfunctional society would think that nudity in any way normally causes people to yearn to fuck someone.
And only someone who is seriously twisted would think that the desire to fuck someone is generally a bad thing. Would you say that food ads are in any way problematic because they induce a desire to eat?
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.