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WikiLeaks Continues To Fund Itself Via Flattr
novenator writes "Since the corporations MasterCard, PayPal, and Visa have been trying to shut down the cash flow to the Wikileaks project, those who wish to donate have been having trouble finding a way to help out. The social media/micropayment site Flattr (run from Sweden) continues to leave the channels open."
Is this a way of reminding people to donate ?
Go WikiLeaks! The Champion of Democracy and Freedom!!
OR
Assange's legal fund?
Can we stop posting every bit wikileaks minutiae and get back to real news for nerds?
wikileaks almost has nothing to do with tech anyways, and this tidbit is almost certainly not stuff that matters.
Can we report on more ways to help Wikileaks please? It is arguably the most influence technology, hacking and open-source thinking has had this year, and for a while, and I'd like to see it gather much more support.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
As opposed to posting a link to another board that has am IMAGE of the url; (madness!!)
here ya go:
https://flattr.com/profile/wikileaks
Really editors, was that so hard? My new-years resolution? Find a site that is as good as Slashdot used to be.
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
Can we stop posting every bit wikileaks minutiae and get back to real news for nerds?
And if we do post it, let's pos it while it's still news, and not a week later, okay?
wikileaks almost has nothing to do with tech anyways, and this tidbit is almost certainly not stuff that matters.
Blocking online transactions has something to do with your rights online, though. And that's where this story is.
It's amusing that some people believe they can get at an organisation like WikiLeaks by going after one man and putting pressure on every company imaginable not to do business with them. WikiLeaks will get donations regardless and if it's not WikiLeaks it will be something else. It's like no one has learned anything from the past ten or fifteen years.
How is it funding itself? Do they have $20 and continually re-donate it to their organization?
If that's true, why is the U.S. government pressuring foreign nations to not allow competing services and only allow Mastercard and Visa to process payments? Or are you so blind to the concept of freed information that you don't even bother to read what has been leaked?
Let's deny you all credit cards, bank accounts, airline flights, all major store purchases, all corporate relations, because, well, just because the government said so, no arguments given, and see if you still call that a right any company has, and not a restriction of your freedoms, based on discrimination of some sort. Nobody has yet even accuse wikileaks of breaking any law. The data they publish was not acquired by them, and could have been published anywhere, in zillions of methods, including leaflets on street light poles, involving no computer or network of any kind.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
This is why I come to Slashdot. To stay current. We nerds need to be up-to-date.
... which is why a lot of even supposedly liberal governments are making noises on clamping down on certain parts of the internet. And yes , there are always ways around, but unless you're technical you won't find them or be able to use them so that rules them out for 99% of the population.
So way to go all you wikileaks people, nice own goal with the freedom thing there.
Oh , and ssshhh! We won't mention Assanges mind bogglingly hypocritical whinge about his case details being leaked...
Also you do not have an absolute right to turn down service. In a lot of countries I would suggest if you put up a "No Blacks" etc. sign outside your shop etc then you would quickly get in legal trouble. Discrimination on grounds of skin colour, sexual orientation etc is in most places illigal, and rightly so. I would suggest that discrimination on the grounds that the government does not like you is something much worse.
The biggest problem I have is that it does look (to me at least) like government pressure was behind the decision, and that makes it very different to then deciding for themselves that they don't want to deal with wikileaks. Well that and the "we need these draconian rules to deal wiht terrorists" being subverted and the powers that be trying to use them on everyone (i.e. the attempt to put wikileaks on the list of terror orginisations.)
Can we stop posting every bit wikileaks minutiae and get back to real news for nerds?
wikileaks almost has nothing to do with tech anyways, and this tidbit is almost certainly not stuff that matters.
Don't be daft. Wikileaks is a major story in the news and internet technology made it possible and continues to enable it. The story is fascinating in many ways, including potential technology measures and counter measures (eg: domain shut downs). Much of what we read here does not make it to the mainstream news sites or the spin on it changes. Some of the minutiae is a little much but certainly some people must want to see it or it would not have been modded up on submission.
Besides, you can always pick some story you are tired of reading about and pick on it. Me, I could care less about games and all of the foofarah around releases, reviews, etc. Obviously many others do care so more power to them. Skipping a story is easy --- just don't open it/read it. If you want to change things then go do some firehose rating.
Can we report on more ways to help Wikileaks please?
What I'd like to see is an open, international credit card system that's not at the mercy of two semi-monopolists. It's practically impossible to do reliable payments online without the approval of MasterCard and Visa, and clearly they don't always approve. That's a problem, and it needs to be fixed. We've become too dependent on these two companies, and it turns out they're not the neutral infrastructure that we expected them to be.
We need neutral payment infrastructure. Preferably one where the recipient doesn't need a separate contract with every single credit card company, but only with a single bank. And then everybody with a credit card can automatically pay money to that bank. You can have multiple banks, multiple credit cards, etc, all on the same universal, open system. And if a single bank decides not to do business with you, then you can simply switch to another. If your credit card provider decides not to let you send money to someone, you can just get a different credit card that's on the same system. It's the only good way of handling this, I think.
Now only to get some international banks and credit cards on board with this idea.
Understand that Wikileaks hasn't leaked anything. They just published what was already leaked and which is what the New York Times and others have published in part so I wonder why MasterCard et al aren't doing the same thing to all the other media outlets that publish leaked info.
Maybe they all got a call from Lieberman's office or something.
Well , ok it uses technology - admittedly from 1991 - but I don't think thats quite what you meant.
And , what exactly is "open source thinking"? Other people get to peer into your mind and amend your thoughts for you if they don't look right? Isn't that what the CIA and KGB/FSB are supposed to do?
The problem is that Visa and MasterCard together have pretty much a monopoly on international online payments. They own our payment infrastructure, and therefore they can decide what we can do with our money. That's just not an acceptable situation. Our payment infrastructure needs to be neutral, and not corporate owned.
I think the more interesting point here, is that governments can strong-arm credit card companies to cut the funding for a Website that they don't like.
What happens if an influential large software company decides that it doesn't like an open source software site?
This is indeed news for nerds, and stuff that matters.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Big news for nerds in Spain today has got Spanish "internautas"riled: The US pressured all major political parties to change Spanish laws regarding P2P downloads.
Specifically: these two cables (248887 and 213345) are revealing the backroom pressure to ignore the wishes of the Spanish people and slip the laws in without any debate. Even going as far as to tell elected representatives not to meet with the internet community to debate the issue.
This, right on the heels of a votation without public debate going on right now in congress to force through new laws giving the Spanish Gov the right to shutdown websites at will without so much as a court order...
I wonder why MasterCard et al aren't doing the same thing to all the other media outlets that publish leaked info. by troll -1 (956834)
on Tuesday December 21, @11:52AM (#34629774)
Because they're big enough and well-financed enough to beat the hell out of them is why. Bullies don't hassle entities that can punch their lights out. Hence, why wikileaks is being targetted - not big/powerful enough to fight back.
OK you want a neutral non-corporate owned payment structure? Then create your "Peoples Credit Card" monopoly and see how far will you go without corporation... If it is government owned -- then it would be be a defeat in purpose. So technically your argument and preposition is either done in sarcastic humorous tone or completely stupid.
How about this link? Whats up with Mozambique, Kenya and Ethiopia?
Well , ok it uses technology - admittedly from 1991 - but I don't think thats quite what you meant.
And , what exactly is "open source thinking"?
The posting is not the technology part, it's the social impact part. The technology part is exercised by whoever acquired the documents, and the technical ability to keep the site free of attacks and running.
Open source thinking stands for giving everyone access to all information, for full transparency, whether that's inside the box, under the hood, under the table, behind the curtain, behind the firewall, but most especially, inside the secret dealings of corrupt, powerful, monopolist, abusive and violent entities, such as many sections of goverenments and corporations.
But it appears you stand for their rights to abuse human beings, laws and ethics codes of all lands, in complete secrecy. So I understand why you don't agree.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
It's worth noting though that to top-up your Flattr account you need to use PayPal or Moneybookers (a UK similar service which also bowed to government pressure). So while this does make it possible, the sad fact is that your donation will not go as far. Flattr takes ~10% and I imagine PayPal or Moneybookers do similarly.
:(
If you were hoping to take your custom away from these services and give others your money, this isn't the way to do it
Bitcoins serve exactly this purpose. See www.bitcoin.org
Isn't that what the various inter-bank electronic transfer systems do? I can transfer money to any UK account for free, and any account worldwide for a fee. The fee (£10 or so) is so high I've never used it though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWIFT
Of course, these aren't anonymous, and as I understand it most banks charge for transactions in a different currency and/or country.
Using the online form linked from here ("Online Transfer via selected European and UK banks") should use this system, but doesn't work with either of my accounts -- I think because they're both in £ but the destination account is in €.
The Assange Defence Fund is held in a UK £ account (details at the top of the Support page), so I can donate to that easily (the same way I pay my rent, etc). But I'd rather donate to Wikileaks.
Can we stop posting every bit wikileaks minutiae and get back to real news for nerds?
wikileaks almost has nothing to do with tech anyways, and this tidbit is almost certainly not stuff that matters.
Can we report on more ways to help Wikileaks please?
Can you stop feeding the trolls?
Every thread has a troll in it saying "this is not news for nerd/stuff that matters", they should simply be routinely downmodded and ignored.
You can't take the sky from me...
I like your tone and thought-provoking reply. Unlike the other peoples comments it is not driving me mad but rather to think. You forgot probably that discover and AE is available as well, but that's beside the point. Anyways, VISA and MC is a current economic reality and our economy is based on it. When I read the story that small business owners who depend on the online transactions during the Christmas season could not get through because bunch of hackers decided upon themselves to conduct a "punishment session" for the credit card companies -- I realized that they are engaging in economic terrorism. They are not hurting MC or Visa because these companies are in business of lending money and collecting fees on micro-transactions. My personal problem is not necessarily with WikiLeaks but specifically with the "public avengers", i.e. misguided mob. This action in itself is the most undemocratic and barbaric thing that came out of that story, creating by far more harm to the economies of many countries at this time.
Based on http://wikileaks.nl/support.html it is still possible to transfer money directly to two bank accounts (to fund Wikileaks itself, there is also information there if you want to fund Assange's defense):
Bank Transfer - Option 1: via Sunshine Press Productions ehf:
Skulagötu 19, 101 Reykjavik, Iceland
Landsbanki Islands Account number 0111-26-611010
BANK/SWIFT:NBIIISRE
ACCOUNT/IBAN:IS97 0111 2661 1010 6110 1002 80
Bank Transfer - Option 2: via the not-for-profit Wau Holland Stiftung Foundation:
This support is tax deductible in Germany
Bank Account: 2772812-04
IBAN: DE46 5204 0021 0277 2812 04
BIC Code: COBADEFF520
Bank: Commerzbank Kassel
German BLZ: 52040021
Subject: WIKILEAKS / WHS Projekt 04
The page also states that some European banks can transfer directly to Datacell, the collection agent for Wikileaks:
Using:
See URLs http://www.datacell.com/news.php and https://payments.datacell.com/ for more info about that last option
It is arguably the most influence technology, hacking and open-source thinking has had this year
Wikileaks has *nothing* to do with any of those things. Hell, they're not even a wiki anymore.
Wikileaks user profile contains news tidbits that link to wikileaks.org and are redirected to wikileaks.info, a site Spamhaus recently wrote about. I'll wait and see until I have some evidence that the money sent throught this account does really reach Wikileaks and not some clever Russian.
This whole Wikileaks thing is a non-story. Really, can any one tell me something new or shocking learned form the leaks? Maybe it was the startling fact that Putin sees himself as a throw back to Russia's Cold War strong man, or the fact that Iran's neighbors are afraid they are being left out of the arms race. No none of those, maybe it was China hacking Google or the fact that civilians dies in a war. Nope it can't be those seeing how we already knew China hacked Google and oh yeah this country drop two atomic bombs on Japan and helped fire bomb a German city about sixty odd years ago. You go out of your way to try and embarrass The Man you have to be ready to face the consequences.
EGOTIST, n. A person of low taste, more interested in himself than in me.
In this case, that's called "voluntary censorship". So yeah, that's what freedom of speech is kind of at ends with in any modern society.
and I wonder what effect it will have on Flattr brand. Will it be the making of it? Will it bring it to the notice of people who would otherwise never have heard of it?
How does one give money to/through Flattr without Visa, Paypal, Moneybookers or the other evul companies?
In terms of Mastercard and Visa, I would say it was a bit more more complicated, as they have a near duopoly of card processing methods
It's called an oligopoly, and that's certainly true. Particularly if you're interested in your card actually being accepted anywhere (there are still the Amexs and Discovers of the world, but they're not nearly as ubiquitous as Visa and Mastercard).
i seem to remember the US keeps track of swift "for terrorism" reasons
who is to say i won't get flagged if i use swift to help wikileaks?...
if the goal is oppression by fear, then it's working.
I thought the most barbaric thing to come out of this story is that a US corp pimped children out to afghan warlords to secure a contract and the US government is covering it up and not holding anyone responsible?
Have you considered that banks can do international payments too? Using IBAN numbers, etc, you can make payments to any bank account on the planet. Only it's expensive and cumbersome, and not integrated with an easy payment system. But I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to do just that.
Please though can we get away from the missuse of the the word terrorism. Terrorism involves killing people and threatening to kill people to get what you want. This is civil disobeidence. The best analogy is a something like a picket. It is annoying, it gets in everyones way and costs money. It has nothing to do with terrorism, and trying to connect them in any way cheapens the whole thing.
The whole "we need these draconian rules to deal wiht terrorists" to using those rules in situations that have nothing to do with terrorism is dangerous. The next time you try to change the rules to "deal with terrorists" you will get a fight.
I do wonder though what you think a reasonable response would be to MC and Visa? Democracy requires the right to protest, so what do you think would be ok? An actual picket of the MC and Visa head offices? Honestly I think the economic damage you quote is overstated, but that is getting very offtopic.
Naive as I sometimes am I used to believe that major credit card companies like Visa or Mastercard are obliged to process transactions, unless there is no well-defined court ruling against it, and cannot just refuse to deliver their services whenever they feel like it or are under political pressure. Personally, I don't give a damn about the cables and don't understand why the US government makes such a fuzz about them -- most of what they contain is known by everyone, and besides, personal assessments by diplomats are not facts anyway.
But it is astonishing and came as quite a surprise to me that essential economic services like money transfers and payment processing sites are apparently allowed to be operated by private companies in an arbitrary and unreliable way and can easily be influenced by governments to their will without legal consequences. I'd say there is an urgent need for neutrality rules in the form of laws and binding international treaties.
This looks pretty good?
Python coder | PyQt Applications | Writer
Flattr can be shut down...Bitcoin is the answer, Wikileaks should set that up ASAP.
I'm helping however I can. I had in the past been looking into getting a flattr account before this whole cable release started. I was just waiting for it to get more prevalant in Canada, or North America as a whole.
The Wikileaks thing however got me to sign up for it a lot sooner than I otherwise would have. Hope my donations help them push through this further.
Although I hope openleaks gets a flattr account too... I could split my donations between them (and the few other things I happen to flattr).
Then you didn't read / hear what was said. Either that or your were on a source that withheld the fact that NONE of the payment systems were affected by the DDoS. It was solely their website / some web services, which has nothing to do with payments.
http://www.mastercard.com/us/company/en/newsroom/pr_service_interruption.html
This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
It also needs to be able to be exchanged for local currency, or for goods and services directly, which is where bitcoin fails, isn't it?
Wikileaks isn't the first case of VISA/MC refusing to process transactions without a court order to such effect. Particularly "unusual" parts of the porn industry have had to deal with that at one point or another. I'd be willing to bet there are at least a few instances of that going on right now, if you get weird/disturbing enough with your porn. Enough for "gross factor" (whether their own or that of another, larger customer) to outpace "income from this customer", to be specific.
You can freely exchange bitcoins for USD - there are operating currency exchanges, though their volume is quite low.
I believe going rate is something like 1 bitcoin = USD 0.25.
Learn about Photography Basics.
Now only to get some international banks and credit cards on board with this idea.
Won't happen. The major players will just get their respective governments to shut them down, bury them in bureaucratic red tape. There are no existing banks that will challenge the power..
On a related note, see how Ticketmaster controls venues for big live events.
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
i seem to remember the US keeps track of swift "for terrorism" reasons
who is to say i won't get flagged if i use swift to help wikileaks?...
if the goal is oppression by fear, then it's working.
This was my thought, too. They'll just classify it as a "terrorist organization," so it doesn't matter how you send money to them, you'll still be arrestable.
Actually, after actually reading the cables, it appears that it wasn't the US pressuring anybody.
It seems that a lot of the articles now are just links to someone's blog. Not being a blogger myself so I'm not sure how this works, but besides the ego boost of having a lot of people go to your blog, are there other gains for having this happen, like increased ad revenue? Personally, I would rather just have the direct link to Wired or NYT story rather than having to go to someone's page who then links to that same story.
Some of us even like to give our adult political opinions. If it's about computers, high technology, science, engineering or about the people who work with any of the foregoing, it's news for nerds. Get used to it.
I piss off bigots.
parent has posted a comment that should be the highest modded comment of 2010.
eom.
Just a few more dollars and the Flattr team can afford to buy that ever-desirable Second Vowel!
Don't pass-up the opportunity to help a bunch of great guys escape the Web 2.0 trap.
How do I get money in and out of the Flattr system?
- Currently, Flattr supports most credit cards and direct banking. We're using Moneybookers and PayPal to achieve this. To get money out of the system, we currently support PayPal only.
Bitcoins serve exactly this purpose. See www.bitcoin.org
Interesting. Do most webshops accept it? Because without that, it's still useless.
This is exactly what I mean. I expected Visa and MasterCard to have some sort of common carrier status, but it turns out they can use their business as a political weapon. And that's wrong for something that's fundamental infrastructure. The lesson is that we cannot rely on them.
Isn't that what the various inter-bank electronic transfer systems do? I can transfer money to any UK account for free, and any account worldwide for a fee. The fee (£10 or so) is so high I've never used it though.
That's exactly the problem. It's expensive and inconvenient. It's in no way a competitor to credit cards. We need something that's at least as cheap, practical and convenient as credit card transactions, but more reliable.
If everyone who did "like" on facebook Wikileaks, also sent them a dollar..... fold it in a piece of paper, stick it in an envelope, address it to the given address, put a stamp on it and mail it...
See under "Priority Watch List" and "Special 301 review" - two big sticks used to beat countries into compliance. Or to make it even clearer in case your not understanding the cables, see: "Not-So-Gentle Persuasion: US Bullies Spain into Proposed Website Blocking Law"
Actually, after actually reading the cables, it appears that it wasn't the US pressuring anybody.
Did you read this then? : “We propose to tell the new government that Spain will appear on the Watch List if it does not do three things by October 2008. First, issue a [Government of Spain] announcement stating that internet piracy is illegal, and that the copyright levy system does not compensate creators for copyrighted material acquired through peer-to-peer file sharing. Second, amend the 2006 “circular” that is widely interpreted in Spain as saying that peer-to-peer file sharing is legal. Third, announce that the GoS will adopt measures along the lines of the French and/or UK proposals aimed at curbing Internet piracy by the summer of 2009.”
I realized that they are engaging in economic terrorism.
Economic terrorism? WTF? Terrorism is violent military action against civilians for political purposes. Economic "terrorism" sheds no blood.
The definition of "terrorism" gets thinner and thinner until we're all terrorists.
Free Martian Whores!
I just bought my first batch of bitcoins. After I saw the EFF was taking them I decided to read up on them...and I like the system alot. I figured, why not toss a few bucks in (couple of hundred $$ actually, figured if I want people to use them, I should have a few to sell off to people).
My verizon rebate card wouldn't work with the exchange that takes cards, so I ended up sending a check and some cash to some guy who was offering an exchange service personally. Worked like a charm though, I was a bit nervous about it.
Last week when I locked in the deal, the rate was about $.23 per bitcoin, it looks like the average trade price is now up to about $.25 though.
Of course, that means I now have to post my obligatory sponsorship link to the bitcoin ponzi scheme... its only 1 bitcoin to join :) http://fxnet.co.cc/?ref=257
Anyway, I love the system, I hope more people start to use it.
-Steve
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
I suspect you haven't known too many billionaires? Or directors at the World Bank?
Please allow me to clue you in. They actually hire people to do their thinking for them. And guess what? Frequently, they hire similarly disposed thuggish types who believe, like their bosses, they should be ruling the world and all things.
But the obvious reason they are targeting Assange is to scare others away, and from the typical Ameritards I've spoken to, it is working beautifully here in the Land of the Fee and Home of the Knave!
This is all classic intel op, from the background of that Anna Ardin, to the backgrounds of of those two attorneys involved, Thomas Bodstrom and Claes Borgstrom, to the background of the Bonnier Group.
Classic!
Mail a cheque?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
It is arguably the most influence technology, hacking and open-source thinking has had this year
Even more than automated grammar checking?
Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
Why is it a political weapon? Why are so many people convinced it's a Government conspiracy?
Could it just be, that a company feels someone is an asshole and doesn't wish to do business with them?
I would like to think that if I thought someone was an asshole, I could throw them out of my shop without hesitation.
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Wait. What? You actually read the cables?
You're missing the point man. This isn't about what was actually said, by Arab countries, by China, by other dictatorships. No, no no... This is about eeeevil Amerikkka.
That's partly why Wikileaks and their supporters are seen as such a bunch of hypocrites. They claim to be all about freedom of speech and encouraging whistleblowers.
However, where were they when dissidents in various dictatorships literally risked their lives leaking the truth? Nowhere of course. Whereas, Assange, who let's be honest isn't exactly in mortal danger, is held up as the bravest risk-taker of this century.
Journalists in the Arab world have been locked up or 'disappeared' altogether for writing a single critical article. They must look at Assange like a giant crybaby.
Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
But it appears you stand for their rights to abuse human beings, laws and ethics codes of all lands, in complete secrecy. So I understand why you don't agree.
Really? You drew that conclusion from the fact that he simply questioned whether or not this was a technological big deal and queried the expression "open source thinking"?
I've had this sort of thing happen myself before, and frankly it irritates me more every time I see it. You query one aspect of someone's argument and they feel entitled to assume that you're not only arguing against it (which might or might not be the case), but that you're in favour of everything they're opposed to.
I don't even believe that this is an intentional smear attempt in most cases- I believe it's the blinkered kneejerk reaction of the egotistical self-righteous, unable to accept that the pointing out of flaws in (e.g.) a silly argument, or even one aspect of something does *not* entitle you to assume that your opponent "OMG!!!!!1111111 SUPPORTS THE iNTERNATIONAL dEATH iNDUSTRY AND PUPPY STOMPERS!!!".
And for your benefit.... Disclaimer: The above does not necessarily mean that I agree with what Viol8 said there, let alone that I agree with every view he hold or expresses, nor think that we should do horrible things to small, cute animals.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
The message they are sending is political, not that the direction is coming from the government.
I don't know, open one up that does? Currency only works if you work with it. Otherwise it has no value. That's the whole point!
Wikileaks wasn't born with Cablegate or the Iraq/Afghanistan war logs. And it's not an anti-US site; their first published leak was of an assassination order in Somalia. It's just that the US is fertile in material...
Plus, if you bother read the cables you'll see the obvious pressure, as pointed out by other posters.
Actually, the US involvement with the issue began in 2004 (over six years ago) and was at the request of the then Spanish government and supported by the opposition party. That, at least is how it was described in the article referenced by the poster regarding Spain.
So, I guess, the US is still the bad guy when asked for their input and help. Seems they just can't win.
essential economic services like money transfers and payment processing sites are apparently allowed to be operated by private companies in an arbitrary and unreliable way and can easily be influenced by governments to their will without legal consequences
LOL "private companies should be told what to do, but not by the government"
You cracked me up
I thought the most barbaric thing to come out of this story is that a US corp pimped children out to afghan warlords to secure a contract and the US government is covering it up and not holding anyone responsible?
Not so much. Covered here.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
I think the story was that SWIFT is in Belgium and the US liked to track it, but the EU parliament then forbade banks to trace transactions through the US for privacy reasons.
Ironically apropos I did not know the US was later allowed to track the SWIFT data anyway until it was revealed by WikiLeaks, though I am not sure if it was really a secret, for some reason the turn-about fo the EU parliament to allow it anyway, just wasn't reported on.
Because we know politicians asked them to stop, and the have admitted that they stopped the transactions due to pressure from congress?
It is not a conspiracy, it is simply political pressure, and bending to political pressure, and wellknown facts.
Why is it a political weapon? Why are so many people convinced it's a Government conspiracy?
Didn't MasterCard say they did this under US government pressure (though the government denied it)? Don't forget that the US government uses its political clout on behalf of Visa and MasterCard on the Russian credit card market. Looks like companies and government are pretty closely tied together here.
Could it just be, that a company feels someone is an asshole and doesn't wish to do business with them?
Of course, we're talking about two companies that together have a monopoly on the online payment infrastructure, and the "asshole" they don't want to do business with is a controversial press organization, whereas they do want to do business with racist organizations. That definitely sends a political message, and not one I agree with. Nor, I would hope, anyone else who cares about free press, free speech, and democracy.
I would like to think that if I thought someone was an asshole, I could throw them out of my shop without hesitation.
Sure, but if you accept other scum in your shop, then maybe it's not the kind of shop I want to do business with. And certainly not a shop that should control an important part of the economy.
Personally I think MasterCard and Visa should be required to be politically neutral, and accept anyone as customer, unless forced not to by a court order.
The problem here is lack of competition. Lack of alternatives. It's a harmful monopoly exactly because it chooses not to be neutral.
Well, actually the US is winning. Successfully forcing the Spanish Gov to meet the three point US copyright lobby demands ("Spain will appear on the Watch List if it does not do three things by October 2008...") by holding the watch list over the Spanish (with all the trade sanctions that implies for non-compliance) - then the US being asked as you pointed out - to "deal" with all the opposition parties as well so they do not try to democratically debate the issue as it gets back-doored through congress.
Summary from above link: "Let’s be clear what this means; a US official apparently pressured the government [and opposition parties] of Spain to adopt novel and untested legislative measures that have never been proposed in the US Congress, and as the other cables published by El Pais show, did so at the request of US IP rightsholders.".
So winning, yes. Whether you consider that a good thing or not, is upto you...
Mail a cheque?
Too insecure, it takes way too long, and there's no immediate check on whether payment succeeded or not. Webshops and their customers need that.
It was not a legal court order or anything like that. No law requiring them to do anything like this. It was most likely an informal request, and one that's being denied by the government.
What would you say if Visa and MasterCard decided not to do business with various human rights organizations because the Chinese government asked them not to? That's essentially what we're talking about here.
WikiLeaks is not illegal in any way, and a lot of people appreciate what they're doing. But one government considers the leaks embarrassing, and the credit card companies are volunteering to be their hitman.
The secretive german co-founder of Wikileaks has recently outed and stated why he left the organization:
- Assange is a duo-maniac: he wants fame for himself and only himself, plus he hates "Great Satan America" tremendously and nothing else really matters for him. He tranformed WL into an anti-US PR machinery, rather than the anti-dictatorship device it was intended to be
- Assange met Mossad operatives in springtime 2010 and in exchange for money, personal security and hi-tech help, agreed to purge the US diplomatic cable leaks of any material critical of the zionist entity, while keeping the anti-US edge real sharp
- The Mossad meeting was recorded with a HD camcorder to document the deal and the video stream is allegedly contained in the 1,4GB enciphered file which WL posted as "insurance.aes256"
- Journalists who have seen the 250k item cable dump that was provided to select press entities, say the continous cable flow is mysteriously and totally missing a 33 day period, during which zionists bombarded Gaza strip with burning phosphorus in the 2006 war of genocide (let' hope B. Manning was smart enough to give a copy of the WHOLE dump CD to someone else besides WL and so the missing days will surface anyhow).
- In a summer 2010 press conference Assange praised zionist chief Netanyahu as a herald of transparency and goodwill...
- The co-operation of Assange and Mossad is towards the detriment of USA. The zionist parasite is looking for a new host body, now that USA is drowning in debt and no longer milkable.
(China is the new host body and jews already sold chicom the Lavi fighter plane prototype they build from a mixture of french Mirage wings and american F-16 fuselage. Chicoms are now series producing it with a russian powerplant, as the Shenyang J-10 fighter jet, meant to combat the american made F-16 and F-18 defending Taiwan...)
The fat ones with all the money never learn... I can just imagine them scrambling to protect their precious "reputation" that we all spit on anyways. Bloody weasels. They never quit until we finally cut them all down. All this has happened before and all this will happen again.
they might, if you provide a statement not to release any sensitive data where they are involved, and sign it with your own blood. I think alternative channels are the only way, even if run by dickheads like assange, they seem to do the trick very well. If you run an alternative money transfer service that makes no money at all for classic channels you will run into some law somewhere and if you don't someone somewhere will very quickly come up with a law for you to run into. time to take your work back underground, a bit funny the only service they can rely on comes from the land where he got sued for perhaps not using a condom? irony anyone? improvise
beware he who denies you access to information for in his mind, he already deems himself to be your master (SMAC-ish)
They're obligated to process transactions. However, they are still able to decide to cut off a client from being able to submit transactions. If they didnt then it'd be a whole lot more easier to fraud accounts because the companies would not be able to protect themselves or the customer or merchant.
09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
+2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
What I'd like to see is an open, international credit card system that's not at the mercy of two semi-monopolists.....
While we are at it, how about a political system in the USA that isn't ran by 2 parties...
Be seeing you...
...Personally, I don't give a damn about the cables and don't understand why the US government makes such a fuzz about them -- most of what they contain is known by everyone, and besides, personal assessments by diplomats are not facts anyway.
...
Because the politicians didn't bother to take psychology 101.
If you act like something matters, then everyone will assume it does. If you play it off like it's nothing big, then everyone will assume it's not.
Maybe they got that confused with reverse psychology, which doesn't work in this case, at all.
Be seeing you...
why do you cower behind a chosen pseudonym? what are you afraid of?
you're completely pathetic.
or, cower some more, feeb.
you're completely pathetic.
you are exactly what you've claimed to be: NOTHING.
you will FOREVER continue to be as such until you choose to cease your continued cowering behind a chosen phallical pseudonym.
you're completely pathetic.