Hungarian Officials Can Now Censor the Media

You control the media... by ELCouz · 2011-01-01 08:31 · Score: 2

You control the people...

Re:You control the media... by fishexe · 2011-01-01 08:36 · Score: 1

Who's the bigger ass, the ass or the ass that follows him?

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"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
Re:You control the media... by Thing+1 · 2011-01-01 09:18 · Score: 1

Who is bigger, Mrs. Bigger or her baby? Her baby is a little Bigger.

--
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Re:You control the media... by toriver · 2011-01-01 10:57 · Score: 1

Hungary is the new Italy, Slashdot confirms it.
Re:You control the media... by ohiovr · 2011-01-01 11:50 · Score: 1

Someone has butt hurt haha

Translated to Headline du Jour by DirePickle · 2011-01-01 08:35 · Score: 5, Interesting

Has the industrialized world reached Peak Freedom?

Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-01 08:38 · Score: 1

Long ago. In fact we haven't been at peak Freedom in nearly a decade minimum.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by julesh · 2011-01-01 09:10 · Score: 2

Long ago. In fact we haven't been at peak Freedom in nearly a decade minimum.
I'd contend that "peak freedom" must have occurred before most countries began requiring passports or visas to pass through their borders. This happened surprisingly recently in most cases; e.g. the 1930s for most of Europe, IIRC.
Just think: being able to travel internationally without being required to prove who you were. It's a freedom we lost so long ago it almost sounds idealistically crazy.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by jovius · 2011-01-01 09:28 · Score: 1

Only during the ecstatic moments of a revolution the people are truly free.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by Nimey · 2011-01-01 09:43 · Score: 1

Not since the overreaction to that skyscraper business, yep.

--
Hail Eris, full of mischief...

E pluribus sanguinem
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by Psion · 2011-01-01 10:14 · Score: 1, Insightful

And now the same thing is going on within the borders of the United States. Not only do we have to present identification and submit to a search when we travel by air, but Janet Napolitano has indicated that the same procedures are coming for travel by trains and buses. And given the emergence of "border checkpoints" up to 100 miles into the country from any border, it isn't going to be much longer before travel by car, bike, or foot is restricted to only those who can show identification.

For the sake of safety, of course. It's a different world since 9/11!

It's a different world since 1776, too.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by poetmatt · 2011-01-01 11:33 · Score: 1

some people can't resist trying to go back to the dark ages.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by davester666 · 2011-01-01 11:54 · Score: 1

Well, as a citizen, you do have the right to freely move within the USA. However, you are only free to do so using your own two feet. Once you want to use any form of transportation, particularly public transportation, that right is no longer applicable, as the gov't has the moral obligation to make sure you aren't a terrorist. Or violating copyright law.

--
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by the_other_chewey · 2011-01-01 14:05 · Score: 1

I'd contend that "peak freedom" must have occurred before most countries began requiring passports or visas to pass through their borders. This happened surprisingly recently in most cases; e.g. the 1930s for most of Europe, IIRC.
Bad example. Most of Europe has dropped this requirement years ago.
In many places, the checkpoints at the borders aren't just unmanned,
they don't even physically exist anoymore.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by Sulphur · 2011-01-01 17:10 · Score: 1

Has the industrialized world reached Peak Freedom?
We are now dependent on foreign turmoil.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by Lemmy+Caution · 2011-01-01 17:40 · Score: 1

But to enter Europe itself, you still need a passport. And there are still certain intra-European passages (e.g., Eurostar) where you still need to provide one.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by CRCulver · 2011-01-01 18:20 · Score: 1

The Eurostar requires showing a passport because you are going from a non-Schengen country to a Schengen country. The UK has always been the odd man out in choosing not to join Schengen. For all other European Union countries (and Norway) except for Romania and Bulgaria, you no longer need to show a passport or EU identity card when going from one to the other.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by Lemmy+Caution · 2011-01-01 19:46 · Score: 1

Nonetheless, to enter the Schengen area itself, one still needs a passport. This makes the region comparable to a "United States of Europe" - after all, one needs no passport to travel between US states.
I believe the international passport system was instituted around the first world war, and standardized by the mid-1920s.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by CRCulver · 2011-01-01 19:56 · Score: 1

Passports had existed before, often within countries. In Hugo's Les Miserables Valjean had problems getting around France because his passport showed he was an ex-con. Moving from one region of pre-revolutionary Russia to another often required a passport, a system designed to keep serfs in their place.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by DNS-and-BIND · 2011-01-01 22:07 · Score: 1

Yeah! And I know one charming fellow here in China who makes his living importing illiterate Chinese peasants into Europe exploiting that exact principle. Let me know how it works out for you!

--
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by arisvega · 2011-01-02 00:41 · Score: 1

For all other European Union countries (and Norway) [..]
Not all; Cyprus is EU, but not Schengen

(and Norway)
also Iceland and Switzerland. They are not EU, but still in Schengen.

--
The three laws of thermodynamics:(1) You can't win. (2) You can't break even. (3) You can't even quit.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by slick7 · 2011-01-02 04:05 · Score: 1

Has the industrialized world reached Peak Freedom?
Yes it has, now for peak tyranny.

--
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by SteveFoerster · 2011-01-02 06:48 · Score: 1

Long ago. In fact we haven't been at peak Freedom in nearly a decade minimum.
I'd contend that "peak freedom" must have occurred before most countries began requiring passports or visas to pass through their borders. This happened surprisingly recently in most cases; e.g. the 1930s for most of Europe, IIRC.
The level of liberty isn't like the price of oil. Depending on who you are, where you are, and which freedoms you value, "peak freedom" could be in a great variety of different variety of times and places, even in the present.
For example, you talk about the time before the '30s. That era may have been peak freedom for white people, but for everyone else it came later. Peak freedom for Venezuelans is definitely sometime before Chavez, but in Chile or Uruguay it may be in the present. If you value freedom in being able to use cannabis, go to the Netherlands. If you value it in not being taxed, go to the Caymans.

--
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by Jedi+Alec · 2011-01-02 20:40 · Score: 1

If you value freedom in being able to use cannabis, go to the Netherlands.
Bad news, that freedom is disappearing as we speak. Instead of trying to get ourselves a nice little chunk of extra income from all the folks looking to score we're introducing a "pass" that is required to enter a coffeeshop. Because making weed illegal has proven so succesful in the past.
In other news, this planet is populated by fucking idiots.

--

People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by Anzya · 2011-01-02 22:44 · Score: 1

Actually it's not as good as that. You don't need passports when moving betwine countries but you do need passport or id inside a country. That's right, we traded the hassel of having to show passport once at the border for joy of needing to prove our identity whenever the police feel like it. Might not happen that often in Sweden but I bet that the Romani in France doesn't have it that good.

--
"This message was brought to you by Sarcasm and Troll Feeders United (or STFU, for you un-hip people)."
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by daem0n1x · 2011-01-03 02:11 · Score: 1

Peak freedom for Venezuelans is definitely sometime before Chavez
This is only true if you only count the filthy-rich Venezuelans.
Re:Translated to Headline du Jour by tehcyder · 2011-01-04 03:59 · Score: 1

Peak freedom for Venezuelans is definitely sometime before Chavez
Peak freedom for gangsters and fascists maybe.

--
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it

New World War by twidarkling · 2011-01-01 08:38 · Score: 4, Insightful

It seems like a lot of countries are going on a slide towards dictatorships and totalitarianism, and if it doesn't stop, I'm pretty sure we're going to see World War III, and I'm willing to bet it's within the next 50 years. The problem with WWIII is going to be, it's not going to be countries banding together to stop aggression from another bloc of countries, but fighting for the right to rule over other countries. Russia, USA, UK, Italy, Hungary, China, and North Korea are the ones off the top of my head sliding that way, though there's a bunch of other countries who might give them a run for their money (Iran et al).

--
Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.

Re:New World War by 0123456 · 2011-01-01 08:48 · Score: 4, Insightful

It seems like a lot of countries are going on a slide towards dictatorships and totalitarianism, and if it doesn't stop, I'm pretty sure we're going to see World War III, and I'm willing to bet it's within the next 50 years.
All governments slide towards dictatorship and totalitarianism because all governments want more power. The best you can do is try to put roadblocks in the way to delay them long enough for enough resistance to get in the way of their plans.
But most people will cheer for the dictator so long as he promises to give them free stuff paid for with other people's money.
Re:New World War by Opportunist · 2011-01-01 08:50 · Score: 1

My guess is the next "world war" (more a "worldwide war") will be governments vs. the people.

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:New World War by PeterBrett · 2011-01-01 09:21 · Score: 1

My guess is the next "world war" (more a "worldwide war") will be governments vs. the people.
My guess is that the next "world war" will be the Last War.

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Pirate Party UK
Re:New World War by c6gunner · 2011-01-01 09:22 · Score: 1

My guess is the next "world war" (more a "worldwide war") will be governments vs. the people.
What the fuck does that even MEAN?
Re:New World War by Bitmanhome · 2011-01-01 09:34 · Score: 2

My guess is the next "world war" (more a "worldwide war") will be governments vs. the people.
I believe that's the definition of "civil war".

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Not that this wasn't entirely predictable.
Re:New World War by sourcerror · 2011-01-01 09:46 · Score: 1

1, Well, Hungary still doesn't have an Internet filter like Australia (and there's no plan about making one), so you just put your server abroad. The already banned neo-nazi Kurucinfo e.g. hosts its portal in Hong Kong.
2, This law is quite unpopular even here in Hungary. At the moment it seems unlikely for the governing party (FIDESZ) to win next election.
3, There's still the possibility to appeal to court. FIDESZ doesn't really have influence there.
4, The only really problematic part of the law is the requirement of balancedness. We'll see how that will play out, but I don't think the courts will be biased in FIDESZ' support in this regard.
Re:New World War by MightyMartian · 2011-01-01 09:54 · Score: 2

And a wise dictators deliver the bread and circuses that keep a population happy. That is until they've delivered the dictator absolute power. People tend towards complacency and cowardice, and a dictator has it made if he can invoke both.

--
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Re:New World War by Grishnakh · 2011-01-01 10:19 · Score: 1

Not really. You can't have much of a war without soldiers. Governments have to get their soldiers from the People (unless they hire foreign mercenaries), so a civil war usually means one group of the People that fights on the side of the existing government, and another group of People who fights against it to overthrow it (or establish a separate autonomous region). It's not like the politicians are going to take up arms and start shooting at their people themselves.
The idea of a world war of governments fighting against their people is really ridiculous. They might fight against certain disgruntled groups of their People, but not all or even most of them. When most of the population is against a government, and no one bothers to stands up to fight for the government, then you generally have a bloodless coup.
Re:New World War by cyber-vandal · 2011-01-01 11:58 · Score: 1

And yet there's a huge movement in the US against such socialist evils as treating people's illness regardless of whether the insurance industry's death panels approve.
Re:New World War by Caraig · 2011-01-01 12:54 · Score: 1

Well, there's the rising idea that fifth generation warfare involves "super-empowered individuals" at the head of non-governmental, non-political organizations. The flaw in this, of course, is that SEIs are (almost) always citizens of a nation and subject to the protections and prosecutions -- and abuses -- of the laws of their nation. At this time, all a government has to do to shut down an SEI is sic the federal-level law enforcement on them... though for whatever reason they're having remarkable trouble with Assanage.

--
"I am an Adept of Tantric VAX."
Re:New World War by ObsessiveMathsFreak · 2011-01-01 13:20 · Score: 1

It seems like a lot of countries are going on a slide towards dictatorships and totalitarianism,

The world in general is abandoning liberal democracy; largely because liberal democracy is a failed project which has simply degenerated into plutocracy, demagoguery, oligarchy, and market worship.
Democracy is supposed to be about freedom, progress, opportunity, and education. But since the end of the Cold War, "liberal democracy" became all about the money. Freedom meant "economic freedom", not the freedom to protest. Progress meant market growth, not social or scientific progress. Opportunity meant creating new markets, not offering people a chance to fulfil their potential. Education was to exist only in service to the economy. The dogma of the free market became the religion of democracies, economists its high priests, and the three piece suit its national dress.
But, lo and behold, the markets have collapsed. The West's economy lies in ruins and China--an autocratic state--is now the industrial powerhouse of the world. Since the main reason given to become a democracy was to become wealthy, it's no surprise whatsoever that democracy has lost its lustre, and will continue to do so so long as it is seen solely as a vehicle for making money, rather than a social, cultural, and political system.
Liberal democracy has failed; it's not making people rich anymore. Hence, countries will seek out alterantive systems of government and society. China, Russia, and indeed Saudi Arabia offer such alternatives, by example, persuasion, and propaganda. Countries and societies are choosing these alternatives because the only lauded benefit for democracy rings rather hollow these days. And the noticeable decline in enlightenment principles in most democracies is not helping the alternative arguments.
If democracy is to survive this century, it must divorce itself decisively from its deadbeat room-mate, Laise-Faire economics, whose feckless arrogance has repeatedly brought ruin to the household. It must also clean up its own image and try to regain some of the ideals it has abandoned in the last 30 years. If WWIII does happen this century, it isn't going to be about which empire rules which countries. It's going to be about which system of government the world will be run by. A democratic world in 2100 is not guaranteed, or even likely the way things are going.

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May the Maths Be with you!
Re:New World War by name*censored* · 2011-01-01 20:42 · Score: 1

regardless of whether the insurance industry's death panels approve.
The death panels that Palin and others talked about
I think that was his point. Insurance companies refuse to insure people depending on their health - in other words, a textbook definition of the "death panels" that Palin & Co were scaremongering about.

insurance companies can't hold a candle to the number of rejected claims by Medicare. Go ask an old person. Medicare has always been the number one denier of claims!
Sampling bias, anyone? The people who can get private health insurance are generally healthier (they have enough money, which indicates that they're gainfully employed, which indicates that they're healthy and young enough to work). As you say, ask any old person. Plus, there's side benefits of having money - you can afford to eat healthily, see a GP for check-ups (and not just emergencies), and live in a safe and healthy area.

On second thought
You have to have a first thought before you can have a second thought. If you try really hard, maybe one day a thought might pop into your tiny little brain!

--
Commodore64_love: I don't comprehend people who're so frightened of death that they'll bankrupt themselves to stay alive
Re:New World War by DNS-and-BIND · 2011-01-01 22:18 · Score: 1

Heh, heh. You forgot "to the barricades, Comrades!" at the end of your speech. To which country did you emigrate to escape the corporate fascism of your native land? What? You didn't leave? Surprise, surprise.
You do know that China greatly admires Western democracies and desires to emulate their system? Of course, this won't happen overnight...it will be 50+ years until China is safe for democracy. "Liberal democracy has failed" LOL keep flogging that dead horse. I especially recommend doing this in the presence of people who actually lived under True Socialism[tm].

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Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Re:New World War by lsatenstein · 2011-01-02 05:07 · Score: 1

Canadian citizen rights are slowly slip and sliding away. Our Prime Minister is a man that wants power, and does not listen to the population. He is too smart, so he thinks. In the end we need to dump him and get a better leader for his party.

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Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Re:New World War by cyber-vandal · 2011-01-02 08:29 · Score: 1

I'm from the UK, home of the non-existent death panels that your fuckwitted right-wingers like to harp on about. I love going to a doctor and not having to worry about whether I can afford it. I love the fact that I had physiotherapy recently without having to ask my health insurance provider if it's ok. And just for the record I go to a doctor, get a prescription and wait around 10 minutes for the pharmacist to prepare it. In short you're clueless.
Re:New World War by locallyunscene · 2011-01-03 07:28 · Score: 1

Don't forget an enemy at the gates to unite and an enemy within to segregate the country into patriotic supporters and evil opponents. Bread and circus will gain you popularity, but the other two will allow you to abuse that power.

Balanced view by mangu · 2011-01-01 08:42 · Score: 1

Yes, for sure, government officials are much more likely to know what a balanced view is than us the common people. Thank God those poor Hungarians don't need to evaluate among different options at the newsstand, the Government has done that for them.

However, I pity those poor government censors who must look through all that pornography in order to censor it. Their brains will be fried in no time, as happens to everyone who sees pornographic text or images.

It's retroactive... by Nrrqshrr · 2011-01-01 08:45 · Score: 2

When libertarians and left wing parties earned the "power", they kind of decieved the populace and we ended up with the extremist right wings getting more influence again.
I imagine that, as this continues, it will inevitably cause a new libertarian explosion and we will inevitably end up with much more lax and young gouvernments...... Yes am dreaming.

As a hungarian... by A+beautiful+mind · 2011-01-01 08:46 · Score: 5, Interesting

...I'd say the new media law is deeply disturbing and it's certainly a step away from democracy, however comparing Hungary to Russia, Belarus or Venezuela does a disservice to describe the state of opression in those countries.

There is one thing that the election in 2010 taught me: if someone campaigns on vague promises and commits to nothing, then assume the worst of intentions and do not, under any circumstances give the party seeking a large majority a carte blanche.

It's a weird feeling to see a /. article about Hungary, I don't think that happened many times before. It is warranted as Hungary now holds the rotating EU presidency for the next 6 months and also this has been the worst degradation of democratic freedoms in the country since the fall of the communist run dictatorship that ended in 1990.

Overall, I think this media law and the government itself will fall, on the medium term (~4 years). This new law and the governing party is already a subject of widespread mockery and nothing corrodes support for a party more than being subject of ridicule. Hungary regained press freedom not long enough ago to have forgotten how precious it is. The governemnt doesn't understand the internet or the state of media.

--
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say

Re:As a hungarian... by commodore64_love · 2011-01-01 08:56 · Score: 3, Insightful

>>>There is one thing that the election in 2010 taught me: if someone campaigns on vague promises and commits to nothing
Sounds familiar. (cough) US 2008. Hopefully the European Union courts will come to the rescue and enforce the constitutional rights enshrined in the Lisbon Treaty. Ex-post facto laws are supposed to be unconstitutional, and ditto suppression of speech, press, and expression.

--
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Re:As a hungarian... by Opportunist · 2011-01-01 08:59 · Score: 1

Allow me a guess (despite being close to Hungary, I have no idea how the campaign went, I was only horrified by the result): They made a lot of wild promises, painted the liberals as pansies and the socialists as communists, belittle everything the previous government achieved and had, at least in hindsight, always known what a huge problem their decisions would cause?
And now they have achieved nothing themselves, are devoid of any ideas how to improve the situation of the country, can't even come close to fulfilling ONE promise they made (even as vague as they were) and their voters are generally disillusioned?

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:As a hungarian... by ThunderBird89 · 2011-01-01 09:25 · Score: 4, Insightful

Being another Hungarian, I am sort of two minds regarding this act.
On the one hand, it is certainly a step away from democracy, and a rather large one at that. The government, already piling mistake upon mistake, could not have chosen a worse time to pass this act: the first day of our European Union presidency will go down in memory as 'The day censorship was reinstated', even after Angela Merkel voiced concerns that Hungary might not be ready for the presidency after passing such laws.
On the other hand, the law seems to be at least partially unenforceable: granted, the Media Authority has the power to "order the suspension of broadcasting", but given that while the government does own the airwaves, it does not, by definition, own the internet. Thus, this power cannot be exercised, even though failure to comply may result in the a de facto ban as the broadcaster is stricken from the national registry (but will probably be able to continue its activities online).
Not to mention that jurisdiction on the internet seems to be a gray area even today. There exist no codified laws or practices on where a lawsuit may be brought against online entities: in the jurisdiction where the server resides, where the entity is headquartered, or where the offender or offended is?
On the gripping hand, however, this is hardly a relief for those news outlets that still depend on printed press, which, to my knowledge, include all media organs with the exception of two larger online news portals.
Also of note is the fact that fines may be appealed, as is customary ... after they were paid. This will likely encourage self-censorship, as it will be significantly easier to comply with the regulations than to pay the fine, then go through legal trouble to potentially lose the lawsuit.
While these measures are certainly harsh, I am glad that we are not yet anywhere near the level of China or Iran. Although, with our drunk-on-power prime minister and his loyal-to-a-fault followers, that may yet come to pass in the new constitution to be approved this year.
A disclaimer regarding any judicial inaccuracies: I am not a lawyer, and have only taken introductory law courses during my studies.

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Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
Re:As a hungarian... by CyberDragon777 · 2011-01-01 09:38 · Score: 1

Exactly.
In short: they won because they were not the party people hated the most.

--
We both said a lot of things that you are going to regret.
Re:As a hungarian... by sourcerror · 2011-01-01 09:57 · Score: 1

They made a lot of wild promises, painted the liberals as pansies and the socialists as communists
No, the socialists called FIDESZ communist because it was against the privatization of the healthcare system (we have a one-payer system at the moment), and against tuition fees in higher education in state universities.
And I think that was the reason FIDESZ won. The socialist party turned to libertarian in the autumn of 2006, after they won the elections in spring, which they won by similar blanket campaign promises*. That was the reason of all the rioting (Speech of Öszöd).
* to be more precise, they explicitely promised to not to do the things, that they started to implement next year, in the televised argument between the candidates
Re:As a hungarian... by Intrinsic · 2011-01-01 10:27 · Score: 1

I dont know why, but "The Revolution will not be televised" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id--ZFtjR5c comes to mind when I hear about this. I know nothing of Hungary, but everywhere I look I see Rich populations rising to power so they can take away basic freedoms from the people. In the U.S Privatization has killed our health care system where the rich stay healthy and the sick get sicker. It seems like in so many countries do not serve its people, but instead serves selfish interests.
Re:As a hungarian... by sourcerror · 2011-01-01 10:37 · Score: 1

Ex-post facto laws are supposed to be unconstitutional, and ditto suppression of speech, press, and expression.
The governing party has 2/3 majority. They make the constitution.
Re:As a hungarian... by rennerik · 2011-01-01 11:50 · Score: 1, Interesting

Also as a Hungarian, while the laws controlling media and empowering censorship *are* rather disturbing (as is their recent ruling against gay marriage and other "moral depravity"), the nationalization of pensions and the overhaul of the tax system was a necessary evil.

There was so much corruption in the government over the past several decades. Big corporations were funneling money from pensions into private interests and out-of-country. They had their representatives create loopholes in the tax system to prevent paying taxes, where the private citizen had to pay even more. Hungary's national debt became huge because of this. The legal system is also not without its problems.

Sometimes I believe you need drastic solutions to such deep-seated corruption. That being said, however, I do think that such a concentration of power is *very* dangerous, and sets a bad precedent. This new media law is definitely a sign that something is amiss.

Say what you will about the U.S., but people more or less respect the rule of law. A case may be controversial, and the result may be unappealing, but ultimately all parties understand that without order and due process, there is no government. No matter how corrupt elements of the government are, they still have to answer, ultimately, to the people (whenever that would see the light of day). In Hungary, it's a bit different. People can get away with a lot of things, and I've seen the level of corruption that exists with my own eyes. None of that would fly here in the States.

So is the government taking so much power the right thing to do? I don't know. I'm sure you can argue that, because of this corruption, it's precisely the *worst* decision you could make (give the government more power), but short of an actual revolution by a populace, how else do you clean up your own governing institutions? The only way you can, is elect people to make sweeping changes. But, as they say, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think Orban is heading in the wrong direction. I think he's made efforts to change things, but I also think his intentions are now suspect with laws demanding censorship and other restrictions. I think by doing things like that, one basically rolls back all the good one has done.

We'll see how this plays out. I'm hoping for the best. As a second generation American, I still have very close ties to Hungary (all of my extended family lives there, and I visit often), and I do my best to keep up-to-date on its politics. I don't want my country-of-lineage to have ill repute.
Re:As a hungarian... by _Sharp'r_ · 2011-01-01 17:57 · Score: 1

There is one thing that the election in 2010 taught me: if someone campaigns on vague promises and commits to nothing, then assume the worst of intentions and do not, under any circumstances give the party seeking a large majority a carte blanche.
You could have learned that two years earlier from the 2008 election in the U.S....

--
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
Re:As a hungarian... by Olipro · 2011-01-01 18:56 · Score: 1

As a non-Hungarian who spends a rather large amount of time in Hungary.

This media law is going to get challenged at the first possible opportunity by someone like Magyar Hírlap and the case will end up being taken to the EU level and Fidesz will quite probably end up in a semi-embarassing climbdown that they will no doubt try to spin in order to save face.

Totalitarian laws are scary only when they have genuine teeth... Hungary as a country does not have these sort of teeth, and this Media law will only descend into debacle in the coming months and years.
Re:As a hungarian... by DNS-and-BIND · 2011-01-01 22:20 · Score: 1

Huh. A former Communist country having a negative view of Socialists. I wonder what might have caused that idea?

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Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Re:As a hungarian... by DNS-and-BIND · 2011-01-01 22:24 · Score: 1

As an American, you can never, ever be right to praise America, EVER. We are the worst fascist corporatist imperialist system to set foot upon the world. "None of that would fly in the States" go ahead and try that line of thinking with the editors of the New York Times. You will gently be let down and told to get a proper education at the [leftist] universities of the United States.

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Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Re:As a hungarian... by rennerik · 2011-01-01 23:05 · Score: 2

> As an American, you can never, ever be right to praise America, EVER.

I think most *reasonable* people can tell you when something works in America, versus something that doesn't in another country.

I think you're right, to an extent, that anti-Americanism is prevalent all over the place. I felt it in Hungary when I was there last, and I feel it here in Canada where I am attending university. But despite all of that, I find the points that people make against America are ill-informed, or hyperbolized. I find myself correcting many misconceptions. I also realized that most people outside of the U.S. tend to paint Americans with the brush they're given: our leaders, and our tourists. Our leaders are obnoxious, so people think that every living, breathing American is an amalgamation of their deeds or actions, when in reality, the bulk of the populace is nothing like the people that lead our country.

That being said, I think I have a rather interesting viewpoint from other Americans. There was a lot of multi-cultural focus growing up (my parents are very traditional, conservative Hungarians coming from the post-WWII, Soviet-bloc-era Hungary), and I think that's given me a rather different perspective. I don't think praising America is seen as something bad, even within America. Painting liberals or leftists as being against praising America is disingenuous. Praising America, where praise is called for, is not wrong. I think where people start having an issue with it, is when they see Americans as not realizing that something outside of America *cannot possibly* be better than the American way.

National healthcare is one which I've seen in-action, on a first-person basis living here in Canada as a student. I can tell you with absolute certainty, that it is better than anything I have ever experienced in the US. My family has a very expensive health insurance policy, and neither its quality, nor its execution, compared to what is offered here. This is obviously my own personal experience, and may not reflect the actual facts situation at-large, but from what I've heard, it's fairly accurate. But there are flaws with this system (flaws which I am willing to look past, given its long-term effectiveness), and having experienced both this system and the American health insurance system, I can point-by-point tell you what I believe America is doing wrong, and what I believe Canada is doing wrong. The Canadians who have never lived in the U.S. can't say that, neither can the Americans who have never lived in Canada. That's why I felt the whole 'debate' was a farce. The Republicans spent too much time talking about socialism (as if there's anything wrong with it), and the Democrats spent too much time talking about capitalism (as if there's anything wrong with it) -- both sides trying to protect their interests, but neither side willing to actually look at facts and decide what's the best option.

Anyway, I got sidetracked. It's late, and I have a penchant for rambling when I'm tired. I think the ultimate point I was trying to make is: you made a jab at the 'leftist' NYT and the 'leftist' universities in the US. The truth is, that it's those 'leftist' institutions which taught me to respect every culture -- including my own. You say the editorial board of the NYT would take umbrage to my statement saying it wouldn't fly in the US? Sure, they'd point out every point of corruption and use it as a counter-argument. To which my response would be: of course, no system is perfect. Our system works better than Hungary's -- at the moment -- but only because our economical and social situation allows it to. And who are they not to criticize? If we stopped criticizing, we'd never get better as a people. Sure, we're not as *bad* as Hungary, but we can be better than we are. I went to the same schools everyone else did; I sang the same patriotic songs in the classroom. I think at one point, a segment of us diverged. The group that thinks America can do no wrong went one way, and the group that thinks that America can become better went another, and those two groups continue to fight in Washington, and it's affecting all of us.
Re:As a hungarian... by C_amiga_fan · 2011-01-02 00:38 · Score: 1

EU Enforced Human Rights (part of lisbon Treaty) that supercede the Hungarian government's suppression of the press:
"Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. this right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers."

--
FREE magazine : http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/prior/
Re:As a hungarian... by Charles+Dodgeson · 2011-01-02 07:13 · Score: 1

...I'd say the new media law is deeply disturbing and it's certainly a step away from democracy, however comparing Hungary to Russia, Belarus or Venezuela does a disservice to describe the state of opression in those countries.
Igazad van. (You're right). Although I emphatically oppose the current government, those sorts of comparisons are hyperbolic.

Overall, I think this media law and the government itself will fall, on the medium term (~4 years). This new law and the governing party is already a subject of widespread mockery and nothing corrodes support for a party more than being subject of ridicule.
My limited understanding of the situation is that the mockery, while loud, is still coming from exactly same the people who would have always opposed such a regime. I've been out of touch with my friends who supported Fidesz back in 1990.

Hungary regained press freedom not long enough ago to have forgotten how precious it is. The governemnt doesn't understand the internet or the state of media.
I hope you are right. But according to Fidesz, Hungary only achieved proper freedom when they were (overwhelmingly) elected last year. Do people believe that?

--
Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
Re:As a hungarian... by jaklimeister · 2011-01-05 21:42 · Score: 1

Huh. A former Communist country having a negative view of Socialists. I wonder what might have caused that idea?
40 years of communism...

my point of view by Anonymous Coward · 2011-01-01 08:51 · Score: 5, Interesting

I'm a Hungarian. I don't really care for politics, I didn't vote, and I only read about these kind of things on news sites. I'm not on the left, right, my philosophy is live and let live.
This new law is just another item on an already lengthy list of reasons to get a job and settle down in a (hopefully) slightly more civilised western country.
I'm not trying to compare our situation to the Nazi Germany, but we are heading down a path that doesn't seem too bright. Fascists, nationalists, extremists call themselves politicians, spread hate under the guise of free speech, and people cheer them for doing so. The other party (socialists) stole money, but didn't try to establish a dictatorship. And I can't believe I actually consider that a good thing now.
At least I didn't vote for any these assholes.

Re:my point of view by Opportunist · 2011-01-01 09:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

It doesn't cease to amaze me how it's a horrendous crime to embezzle money but it's all right to eliminate freedom. Don't worry, you're in good company. Or bad company, depends on how you want to see it.
I can live with politicians that line their pockets. We came to get used to it, and it's not like I'd expect the current leaders of Hungary to abstain from it. But when only facing the choice between politicians that steal my money, and politicians that steal my money and eliminate my liberty, I guess the choice is... well, the lesser evil.

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:my point of view by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2011-01-01 09:09 · Score: 1

We have a very similar phenomenon in the US: With the exception of a few genuine, self-consistent libertarians(who are usually kept safely away from any of the levers and buttons that actually do stuff) Our politics are absolutely infested with people who think that a 3% delta in the tax rate on a given income bracket is the difference between freedom and slavery; but consider the executive branch's claim of the right to abduct and torture whoever they want to be irrelevant to national freedom metrics.

As good old Machiavelli, titan of the realist school of politics, remarked "A man will sooner forgive the loss of his father than the loss of his patrimony"...
Re:my point of view by Charliemopps · 2011-01-01 10:00 · Score: 1

...and the reason they stole your liberty was?

All politicians are crooks and thieves. You should rail against their power at every opportunity. Unfortunately no country on earth has the constitution required to implement true freedom. It will take another revolution is some major country for it to happen and that seems relatively unlikely given the control politicians have over the media today. They use psychology and mass media to steer the uneducated masses towards the choices they pick for us. Even the most intelligent of us can easily fall for a well played political maneuver.
Re:my point of view by Dan667 · 2011-01-01 10:36 · Score: 1

money enables freedom or can be used to take away freedom. Politicians that line their pockets typically do so to take away your freedoms.
Re:my point of view by JaredOfEuropa · 2011-01-01 11:25 · Score: 3, Insightful

They get away with it because few people care. Especially since the law is supposed to uphold decency in the media. A lot of people actually think that's a good thing... until it's their point of view that gets censored.

These laws are all over the place, and they generally start small. In the Netherlands, there already is a law for websites with child pornography (what else? *rolls eyes*), which can be ordered shut down and/or blocked without intervention of a judge. There have been recent proposals to extend this law to cover sites with hatred-inciting or discriminatory content, or stuff that threatens public order. In other words, covering "anything we don't like". The proposal was shot down, thankfully. But even the mere the fact that this motion was tabled at all is a shameful, shameful blot on our institution of government.

But this is by no means a new thing. Searches and wiretaps for instance, used to require a judge's go-ahead, but that was done away a few decades ago with "for convenience". No one cared. The prosecutor's office can now order searches, and wiretaps can be requested by pretty much anyone involved in police investigations, to the point where there are now more wiretaps being conducted in the Netherlands than in the rest of Europe combined. And as for searches, even city mayors now have the power to order these, for crying out loud. They can (and have one so on several occasions) order searches on no suspicion whatsoever, and/or do a door to door search of an entire neighborhood. The pretext is just fire safety, but they will enter homes with a whole team of officials checking for varied things like stolen goods, firearms, marihuana plantations, false social benefits claims, electricity theft, illegal subletting, and so on. And for those who think these are not real, official searches... if you're not at home and it's the 3rd time they've found you absent, they will open your front door with the "municipal key" (i.e. a crowbar), and fail to compensate you for the broken lock even if they find nothing.

That is the state of our country... sounds a bit like East Germany, but nobody gives a shit. So, am I worried about freedom of our media? Well yes... if they can get away with the above, then who will raise a hue and cry over something as "reasonable" as media censorship?

--
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Re:my point of view by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-01-01 11:41 · Score: 1

I think you may be rushing things a little bit. If those jerks, after all these proto-fascist laws that they have enacted, get re-elected for another term - then your concerns are warranted and you would probably do good to seek a different country with more liberally minded people. But if they get kicked out right and proper, then that's democracy at work, and you staying and voting would help things.
Re:my point of view by Teun · 2011-01-01 12:12 · Score: 1

At least I didn't vote for any these assholes.
Oh? But you started with:

I don't really care for politics, I didn't vote,
When you're not against it you're for it!

--
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Re:my point of view by spauldo · 2011-01-01 14:24 · Score: 1

Sitting back and letting everyone else decide who should be in power should be what we hope for in an uninformed populace. He said he didn't pay attention to politics, so any voting he would have done would have been based on campaign ads or what the guy at the bus stop was ranting about.
If voting was done by people who actually know what's going on, politicians would actually have to worry about the consequences of their actions.

--
Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
Re:my point of view by Raenex · 2011-01-01 16:34 · Score: 1

Sitting back and letting everyone else decide who should be in power should be what we hope for in an uninformed populace. He said he didn't pay attention to politics, so any voting he would have done would have been based on campaign ads or what the guy at the bus stop was ranting about.
He still has to take some blame by not becoming informed and voting accordingly. Not that I'm any better. I've voted all of once in my entire life, but I acknowledge it as a personal failing.
Re:my point of view by jasz · 2011-01-01 20:41 · Score: 1

some control needs to be reigned in to re-establish the rule of law (and decency). There are too many thugs in control of Hungary (from mayors being busted for illicit dealings, to Roma gangs running free). The economy sucks, but it's compounded by the exodus of our prostitutes - women literally and men figuratively. The young educated men (as so many doctors) should stay and contribute to our country versus expatriating themselves for their own selfish desire for Euros, Pounds or Francs. Far too many Hungarians are armchair quarterbacks, that sit an bitch and moan about their lot but make no effort to improve the situation. Orban might be full of himself, but he's trying to clean up the mess from all the communists of the near and distant past. The censorship issue seems appalling to us at first sight as we weigh it against our known sense of western reality - but if one looks at the bigger picture, and understands what is happening on the streets of every town and city in Hungary there is a modicum of logic.
Re:my point of view by KDR_11k · 2011-01-01 23:26 · Score: 1

How often do revolutions result in actual freedom instead of the revolutionary leaders deciding that they have all the power to implement their own military dictatorship now?

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Re:my point of view by Asic+Eng · 2011-01-02 00:24 · Score: 1

I didn't vote, and I only read about these kind of things on news sites.
So you had a chance to vote but you'd rather not do anything for your country - not even a little trip down to the voting booth.
settle down in a (hopefully) slightly more civilised western country.
Because they urgently need more people who will do fuck all for the country they live in?

This should be a warning by Opportunist · 2011-01-01 08:54 · Score: 1

It should be a warning for all those that follow right-populist parties and their diffuse "promises". More work, fewer immigrants, less crime, eliminating abuse of social services... sounds familiar?

Also familiar that they do not tell you just how they want to do it?

When facing a politician and his promises, why (usually the single important question) is not really going to give you insight whether the emperor has pants. How is the question you should ask. If he has no answer, write the windbag off.

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.

Re:This should be a warning by 0123456 · 2011-01-01 09:09 · Score: 2

It should be a warning for all those that follow right-populist parties and their diffuse "promises". More work, fewer immigrants, less crime, eliminating abuse of social services... sounds familiar?
That sounds a lot like the left-wing parties in the UK in the 1970s. With the possible exception of the last part.
The BNP in the UK, for example, are repeatedly called 'far-right' by the left-wing media, but as far as I've seen their policies are basically those of the left-wing Labour party of the 70s with a bit more explicit racism on top.
Re:This should be a warning by sourcerror · 2011-01-01 10:01 · Score: 4, Informative

In Hungary left and right wing means completely the opposite than in the US. It was actually the socialist party which promotes the small government, free trade agenda.
Re:This should be a warning by MightyMartian · 2011-01-01 10:01 · Score: 1

This isn't so much a "left vs. right" issue, but more of an issue with populist movements on either side of the spectrum. Whether it's that vile bastard Chavez in Venezuela or this guy, it's the same thing, inherently anti-democratic policies delivered to authoritarians by sufficiently uncritical and intellectually deficient populaces. An excellent way to gain considerable amounts of power is to pander to prejudices. Look at all the people willingly showing their penises and breasts to airport security despite every indication that full body scans are quite bypassable by those looking to sneak nasty things on airplanes. By and large, most human beings are ignorant, stupid, cowardly fuckwads. Every once in a while you will get a generation that puts its foot down, and maybe guarantee the populace a few generations of liberty, but eventually the lowest common denominator always sells it all.

--
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Re:This should be a warning by sourcerror · 2011-01-01 10:15 · Score: 1

More work, fewer immigrants, less crime, eliminating abuse of social services.
On the immigration issue: there aren't many immigrants in Hungary, as the wages are rather low; they usually tend to drift to western countries, after all, it's quite easy to move once you crossed the Schengen borders.
In 2004 however there's was a vote about wether to give back the Hungarian citizenship to the people who were stripped of it after WW1 due to the Trianon treaty, and the socialsts were the ones opposing it. (They thought FIDESZ is more popular among the Hungarians living abroad.)
Re:This should be a warning by Opportunist · 2011-01-01 16:41 · Score: 1

"Right" is no longer "small government, free trade, free people". "Right" today is much closer to fascism.

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:This should be a warning by KDR_11k · 2011-01-02 00:30 · Score: 1

It's the explicit racism that usually gets a party labeled as right-extremist. I have no idea what e.g. the NPD's fiscal policies are and I'd wager neither do they.

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Re:This should be a warning by KDR_11k · 2011-01-02 00:32 · Score: 1

"Right" used to be pro-serfdom, pro-aristocracy, pro-imperialism. Their small government used to mean "one emperor, nobody else!"

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.

Hurrah! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2011-01-01 09:05 · Score: 1

Strength through purity. Purity through faith!

Re:Hurrah! by PolygamousRanchKid+ · 2011-01-01 09:09 · Score: 1

Strength through purity. Purity through faith!
...In our own precious bodily fluids

--
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Re:Hurrah! by ThunderBird89 · 2011-01-01 09:43 · Score: 1

If shit hits the ceiling fan, I'm gonna be seeking out V and helping him throttle our PM. Lacking a V, I'll get one of those masks from Anonymous, as much as I despise them...

--
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!

Sounds like the U.S. by Cornwallis · 2011-01-01 09:07 · Score: 1

"he has implemented retroactive taxes in violation of the constitution, curbed the Constitutional Court's power, effectively nationalized private pension funds and put ruling-party allies in charge of at least four independent institutions..."

Re:Sounds like the U.S. by Cornwallis · 2011-01-01 10:47 · Score: 1

But I don't believe it is for lack of trying. I am worried...

Evil times make evil people? by kheldan · 2011-01-01 09:19 · Score: 1

It's easy for people to be nice and polite and generous in times of peace and plenty, but during these evil times we're living in, it seems you find out what people are really like.

--
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!

Re:Evil times make evil people? by JockTroll · 2011-01-01 09:41 · Score: 1

Evil times? Did you vote for Sauron, you loserboy orc?

--
Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
Re:Evil times make evil people? by Caraig · 2011-01-01 13:27 · Score: 1

Not Sauron. Ming/Voldemort in 2012. Why settle for the lesser of two evils when you can have two evils, extra cheese?

--
"I am an Adept of Tantric VAX."
Re:Evil times make evil people? by kheldan · 2011-01-01 14:50 · Score: 1

Troll calling the Kheldan an orc
LOL

--
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Re:Evil times make evil people? by JockTroll · 2011-01-03 20:12 · Score: 1

Call the Balrog.

--
Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.

Just pull the plug. by toboldh · 2011-01-01 09:22 · Score: 1

Media must present a balanced view and uphold public morality? May as well just pull the plug on the whole internet.

Re:Just pull the plug. by JockTroll · 2011-01-01 11:18 · Score: 1

Given that one of the best and most appreciated exports of Hungary are adult movie actresses , they should dare to denounce the lie "public morality" is. There is no "public morality", there is a set of restrictive non-laws imposed upon the people by a few self-appointed "moral guardians" who should be dragged into the streets, tarred and feathered, and fed to rabid rats on crack.

--
Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.

1984? Honestly... by Brafil · 2011-01-01 09:36 · Score: 2

What happened to the world? Didn't every country in the "Western World" praise democracy and freedom of speech as the ultimate goal of the government until now? And now these idiots collectively decided that these can't give them enough power and changed their minds. China has long been famous for being a police state, but now the US of A have started moving - no, racing - in that direction. PATRIOT Act? TSA? WikiLeaks?

I wonder that the majority of the world has let them act like this until now. I honestly expected people would see their mistakes when WikiLeaks started publishing all those documents, but the ones in power have proven to be capable of preventing that. I don't know how this will go on, but I'm pretty sure some people will be really screwed in the end. I hope it's not us.

I'm pretty sure in the next few years or decades, things are going to change very quickly. History is repeating itself for the nth time. How long will that continue?

Re:1984? Honestly... by JockTroll · 2011-01-01 09:49 · Score: 1

The goal of anyone who is in power is to get MORE power. "Democracy" and "freedom" are buzzwords used as bait to catch votes, but now "security" and "OMG teh CHILDREN" have proven to be more effective. They want more power and they will get it. If they could put their arms up our asses and move us about like sock puppets they would do it in a millisecond. This will go on to the bitter end unless they're countered by force. It will mean losing a LOT of our creature comforts because the only way to undermine their power is to destroy a large part of the industrial complex that supports them. I think it's worth it.

--
Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
Re:1984? Honestly... by Grishnakh · 2011-01-01 10:25 · Score: 1

I'm pretty sure in the next few years or decades, things are going to change very quickly. History is repeating itself for the nth time. How long will that continue?
Until humans are genetically engineered to not be envious, prideful, and greedy.
It probably would help a whole lot if we could genetically identify sociopathy, and preemptively eliminate anyone who has it.
Re:1984? Honestly... by JockTroll · 2011-01-01 11:11 · Score: 1

It doesn't take genetic engineering to solve this, just some good old-fashioned bloodletting by axe now and then. Nothing says "we're fed up with you" better than some dozen decapitated heads set ablaze and thrown over the walls with trebuchets made of human bones.

--
Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
Re:1984? Honestly... by DNS-and-BIND · 2011-01-01 22:28 · Score: 1

Uh...guy? Hungary was not in the West. It was rather firmly in the East. It tried to join our side, but was was thankfully put down by the forces of scientific socialism and prevented from making a huge mistake.
Oh, and dude? I live in China. It's not a police state. Please stop saying that. Kthx!

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Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Re:1984? Honestly... by DNS-and-BIND · 2011-01-01 22:36 · Score: 1

Uh...guy? Hungary was not in the West. It was rather firmly in the East. It tried to join our side, but was was thankfully put down by the forces of scientific socialism and prevented from making a huge mistake.
Oh, and dude? I live in China. It's not a police state. Please stop saying that. Kthx!

--
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!

Pattern detect ? by jace_d · 2011-01-01 09:49 · Score: 3, Interesting

if I may ask, in which other countries has there recently been proposed a new law for media censorship or something similar and in which countries is some sort of media censorship already being practiced ? i know that In south africa there was a proposed bill very recently.

Re:Pattern detect ? by sourcerror · 2011-01-01 10:21 · Score: 1

When discussing the media law here in Hungary there was mentioned that the Britain has the Ofcom, which is similar to the Hungarian media authority, and it has ties to the British government as well, since its members are elected by the secretary of state.
Re:Pattern detect ? by toriver · 2011-01-01 11:43 · Score: 1

Italy for instance, where "il Berluscono grande" tries to morph the laws to shield himself and his party as much as possible. Especially to suppress the videos of him happily singing Musolini-era songs at neo-fascist rallies...
Re:Pattern detect ? by cyber-vandal · 2011-01-01 12:12 · Score: 1

Ofcom doesn't have any control over what the media can or can't say, else most of the press would be in deep trouble.
Re:Pattern detect ? by sourcerror · 2011-01-02 00:35 · Score: 1

Well, we don't whether the Hungarian media authority can or cannot. The problem is the vagueness of the law. We will see how it will be applied.
Re:Pattern detect ? by Synonymous+Homonym · 2011-01-02 05:17 · Score: 1

So far, a rap song by Ice-T has been forbidden. It's on.
The radio station argues that no one understood the lyrics anyway.
The opposition is suing the ruling party for translating it.
Re:Pattern detect ? by sourcerror · 2011-01-02 05:24 · Score: 1

Even the old law sanctions against swearing and whatnot in certain time slots.

Re:1920s by nedlohs · 2011-01-01 09:54 · Score: 1

If you're black you might disagree.

Re:1920s by Grishnakh · 2011-01-01 09:59 · Score: 1

Depends on what kind of person you are. If you're a female or black, your peak freedom was probably in the 1990s. For white males, 1920s definitely.

Having to ride at the back of the bus and not being allowed to vote don't sound like "freedom" to me (I just looked it up, and women could only vote starting in 1920, but that's not enough time for it to really be ingrained in society). Also, I don't think women could really be considered free until they had effective birth control available, which started with the invention of The Pill. Before that, it was pretty easy for a woman to be raped and then blamed publicly for being pregnant out-of-wedlock, just like in Saudi Arabian society now. It's only been in recent decades that women really have any freedom in western societies approaching the freedoms of men, and they still don't have any kind of freedom in other cultures, despite liberals' assertions about how wonderful and "rich" these other cultures are.

Not so bad, actually by Corson · 2011-01-01 10:04 · Score: 1

I know this sounds outrageous but you have to go to an Eastern European country to see the amount of shit that satura the media.

Re:Not so bad, actually by Corson · 2011-01-01 10:05 · Score: 1

saturates*
Re:Not so bad, actually by cyber-vandal · 2011-01-01 12:14 · Score: 1

Or just come to the UK.

Re:1920s by jcr · 2011-01-01 10:09 · Score: 1

Roosevelt aided freedom

I'm sure that will come as a great surprise to Mr. Korematsu and thousands more who were imprisoned for their race during the Roosevelt regime.

-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."

Re:more like by Grishnakh · 2011-01-01 10:11 · Score: 1

Maybe I'm missing something as an ignorant American, but how is Germany sliding back to its old ways? From my perspective over here, it seems like Germany is one of the freest, best-managed countries around, with one of the highest living standards in the world, and a very strong economy with very high exports of high-value goods. Sure, they have lots of taxes and business regulation like any Western European country, but that has nothing to do with a lack of individual freedom. If anything, it seems like Germany would be one of the best places to be if things start going to hell soon: great economy, strong work ethic, pretty good military, and tons of high-tech industrial capacity to build up a war machine in very little time if it became necessary for defense (plus lots of smart, well-trained people to work in it).

The USA, aside from the fact that it's resembling WWII Germany more and more every day, doesn't have most of those things: the economy sucks, it's a house of cards, there's very little real manufacturing capacity because it's all been shut down and shipped to China, there aren't that many smart, well-trained people in technical fields (engineering is less and less popular every day, and more and more engineers are foreigners and would probably move home if things got bad), etc. Sure, there's a huge military, but the technical expertise and industry needed to keep it running is fading fast (from what I've seen, defense contractors seem to be a place for crappy engineers to get a job, i.e. "welfare for engineers"). Of course, politically things are getting really bad here with everyone turning into fans of Fascism and wanting more wars for imperialism.

As far as the Pope's concerned, I don't think he's really very important in Western society any more, even in Italy. However, he's VERY important in Latin America; if it weren't so hard to pick up 2000-year-old buildings and move them to another continent, it'd really make a lot of sense for the Vatican to move to Mexico or Brazil or something, as that's where 80% of their followers are.

But the way many governments are going is very, very worrying: Hungary, Italy, Russia, USA, etc.

A matter of attitude... by nkrisztian89 · 2011-01-01 10:14 · Score: 1

Our first Hungarian republic was crushed after several months, the second one lasted for almost four years, this third one endured a bit more than two decades. I clearly see a positive trend here.

Re:What does that mean by Grishnakh · 2011-01-01 10:14 · Score: 1

There's a good reason to not respond to Anons: it helps stigmatize the use of anonymous posting for legitimate comments. Most anonymous comments are just trolls and flamebait.

Unfortunately, having a firm policy of not responding to Anons isn't good either, because there's many valid reasons for posting Anon with certain posts/topics, such as when saying something about your employer and being worried about being identified, saying something about a crime you've committed, or something along those lines.

Most of the time, however, posting Anon is just a way for trolls to annoy people without repercussions.

Re:1920s by The+End+Of+Days · 2011-01-01 10:23 · Score: 1

Take your outmoded sexual ethics to one of those countries that tries to regulate genitalia. We're busy getting over there here.

Re:1920s by Lakitu · 2011-01-01 10:23 · Score: 1

"Peak freedom" was during the period of time where making alcohol for your own consumption was banned?

yeah, okay.

Caution: Unpopular Opinion by gowen · 2011-01-01 10:29 · Score: 1

Seriously folks, no-one is looking at the free US Media and saying "That is the model to which we should all aspire". Would I rather have a democratic government or Rupert Murdoch controlling the media - well, I'd rather have neither - but at least I can vote out a democratic government.

Fox News or The BBC - no fucking contest....

--
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.

Re:Caution: Unpopular Opinion by KDR_11k · 2011-01-02 02:12 · Score: 1

There's a slight difference between having a public TV station that competes with the private ones and banning all media that are considered "unbalanced" by the leadership.

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Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.

Re:What does that mean by Grishnakh · 2011-01-01 10:31 · Score: 1

Sorry, but when 75% of Anon messages are trolls and flamebait, and 25% of non-anon messages are, it makes sense to ignore the Anon postings so you don't have to wade through as much shit to read legitimate posts.

When there's a real name attached to the message, it becomes easy to identify posters who have a habit of posting flames and trolls, and then you can individually filter those people out in your Preferences. I have a small list of people whose messages I never read; they're called "Foes" on Slashdot. There's no way to filter out the troublemakers when they post Anon, so it's tempting to just ignore all Anon posts.

blackout4hungary by sTeF · 2011-01-01 10:32 · Score: 1

please support an international blackout in protest against these undemocratic measures: http://blackout4hungary.net/ also follow #blackout4hu

Re:1920s by Teun · 2011-01-01 11:45 · Score: 1

Yeah and the world is 6000 years old

Come on sick puppy, go get some education.

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"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."

Re:1920s by cyber-vandal · 2011-01-01 11:56 · Score: 1

Which liberals are those? Not any I know.

Re:1920s by Grishnakh · 2011-01-01 12:17 · Score: 1

Here in the US, there's a large group of liberals who basically believe that western culture is horrible and evil, and every other culture is "rich" and wonderful and superior to western civilization. They go on and on about the "rich culture" in 3rd-world countries. But somehow they never seem to worry about the flagrant lack of women's rights or freedom of religion in those same countries.

Re:1920s by cyber-vandal · 2011-01-01 12:20 · Score: 1

Got an example of that?

Re:1920s by Grishnakh · 2011-01-01 12:25 · Score: 1

No links, but as an example of the effects, there's a lot of people who love to vacation in Mexico, even now with all the violence and lawlessness, and when asked about that, usually say something like "well I've never had a problem" or something similar, and will loudly claim it's perfectly safe down there when this blog tells otherwise.

Re:Remember this... by couchslug · 2011-01-01 12:49 · Score: 1

EASTERN Europe was always fucked. Let's not confuse it with the more advanced regions. It wasn't long ago that Hungary was ruled by Emperor Franz Joseph.

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"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."

Re:What does that mean by Grishnakh · 2011-01-01 12:57 · Score: 1

but considers it the depth of evil and corruption for someone to choose never to see a news broadcast or search result made by someone they disagree with politically.

What the fuck are you insanely ranting about? I've never seen anyone except you criticize someone for choosing not to watch a news broadcast they don't agree with. In fact, criticizing Fox/Faux News is commonplace here.

No freedom-minded person would ever want to force someone to watch/read something they don't want to.

Re:more like by russotto · 2011-01-01 15:38 · Score: 1

Maybe I'm missing something as an ignorant American, but how is Germany sliding back to its old ways? From my perspective over here, it seems like Germany is one of the freest, best-managed countries around, with one of the highest living standards in the world, and a very strong economy with very high exports of high-value goods.

Fortunately for Germany, those ARE its old ways.

Re:more like by KDR_11k · 2011-01-01 21:07 · Score: 1

The pope is more of an ultra-conservative Christian than any form of Nazi (remember, the Nazis hated the Catholic church). Before being promoted to the papal office he was the head of what's left of the inquisition. He might cause a fall back into the middle ages for the people who follow him but he won't lead them to fascism.

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Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.

Re:Remember this... by caius112 · 2011-01-01 21:30 · Score: 1

>It wasn't long ago that Hungary was ruled by Emperor Franz Joseph. Exactly the same amount of time that Austria was ruled by the emperor Franz Joseph. Because, you know, it used to be Austria-Hungary in 1900. I'd hardly call Austria "Eastern European". Then again, I hate the use of "Eastern European" as a blanket term because there are vast, *vast* differences in living standards between, for example, Slovenia and Belarus. Unfortunately, the stereotype seems to favour Belarus.

Hungarian media law - a bitter medicine by KeyserSoze3 · 2011-01-01 23:36 · Score: 1

The new Hungarian law on the media aims at reaching a balanced publication pattern. Ideally such information flow would arise from the freedom of the press, the multitude of views being published in all sorts of media. Also, bad quality would be punished by market forces driving low quality publications bankrupt. Unfortunately the exact opposite happened over the past decades. Bad quality (bad as partial, aesthetically disgusting, junk etc) has been consistently maintained by hordes of media people being paid by left wing politicians and business people. Unfortunately, after a while the sense of taste gets blunted and new generations of people grow up taking in whatever the media cooks for them in a "normal" process. We have seen how this works during communism. The few rebels have been marginalized effectively. What can be done in such a situation? Wait 20 years for new generations and the dung to be cleaned from the media? The government wants something quicker and more effective. They took all the media las in the EU and some scissors and cut and pasted a new law that enforces in various ways balanced publication of information as well as quotas for qualty items to be published. "Balance" and aesthetics are definitely subjective terms but for now the media has to take its bitter medicine until we see some improvement. There is no point lower than where we start from.

Re:Hungarian media law - a bitter medicine by slider2800 · 2011-01-02 00:03 · Score: 1

Reading your thoughts makes me rethink the whole situation. We might not be as fucked as i previously assumed. If this new law enforces better quality of publications in our media, then I'm all for it.
What we have to put up with today is an indigestible bullshit. (thats why i don't watch hungarian television for two years now.

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return $sig;

why not vote? by batistuta · 2011-01-02 01:42 · Score: 1

I think that everyone should take voting seriously. It is our way of expressing our opinion and in the end it decides many aspects of your life. Not voting kind of takes the right to complain later.

I do understand that you might hate all parties and decide not to vote as a way of complaining. But in such situations, an empty envelope (blank vote) would be a better way to protest. Not voting can be seen as lazy rather and the message lost and statistics do mix both to their will.

Don't know... I'm coming from a country where we had many years of dictatorship and now that we have democracy, I see voting as a luxury that we must fight for. It can be gone one day and you'll miss it, so don't take it for granted.

Experienced by b4upoo · 2011-01-02 04:28 · Score: 1

Hungary has great experience with censorship. First trained by the Nazis in goose stepping and book burnings they then got similar training from Joe Stalin's friends who moved right in to help them suppress freedom. Is this some sort of divine justice about to strike again?

Re:1920s by nedlohs · 2011-01-02 06:58 · Score: 1

You're an idiot, congratulations.

Re:1920s by cyber-vandal · 2011-01-02 08:24 · Score: 1

I've been to Mexico as well, and was amused to read that Puerto Vallarta was "just as safe as any US city" as if that was some kind of reassurance and nervous to see armed guards at the resort. I didn't have any trouble but then I didn't go wandering too far away into the surrounding countryside. It sounds like the liberals you're talking about are just a bit dim and not really representative of liberals in general.

Dear Hu Jintao by qpeter · 2011-01-02 10:33 · Score: 1

"To: jintao@blog.hu.com / Subject: Freedom of speech in Hungary as of 21st December 2010 / Dear Mr Hu Jintao, [...]": http://amexrap.org/fal/dear-mr-hu-jintao

Blackout for Hungary by qpeter · 2011-01-02 10:38 · Score: 1

Please help us: http://blackout4hungary.net/en/ Thank you!

Lófasz! by Evtim · 2011-01-02 20:29 · Score: 1

remember Gaff from Blade Runner? Addresing Deckart he says that word.

It is one of the most common Hungarian bad words - means "horse dick" The full insult is "Lófasz a seggedbe" - a horse dick in your a@@

So, Lófasz a seggedbe minister! (I am 25% Hungarian, so I have the right to curse him)

Re:1920s by the_womble · 2011-01-02 22:27 · Score: 1

So you think all non-western cultures are like Saudi Arabia? YOu are ignorant.

I live in a non-western culture and the women I know seem to be as free as the men.

Re:more like by daem0n1x · 2011-01-03 02:18 · Score: 1

Germany is creating the 4th Reich, using the EU as its empire. The huge exports are only possible because of continuous lowering of German people's standard of living since the 80s.

Also, Germany has bullied EU's weakest countries to kill their own productive capacity and instead import everything to help grow the German economy.

Many EU countries are facing huge deficits because they import everything from Germany. When these deficits become unsustainable these countries will go down the flush and drag Germany with them.

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Hungarian Officials Can Now Censor the Media

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