Slashdot Mirror
Apache Subversion To WANdisco, Inc: Get Real
kfogel writes "The Apache Subversion project has just had to remind one of its corporate contributors about the rules of the road. WANdisco, Inc was putting out some very odd press releases and blog posts, implying (among other things) that their company was in some sort of steering position in the open source project. Oops — that's not the Apache Way. The Apache Software Foundation has reminded them of how things work. Meanwhile, one of the founding developers of Subversion, Ben Collins-Sussman, has posted a considerably more caustic take on WANdisco's behavior."
why was this link red compared to the usual green?
The beautiful thing, though, is that because development discussion is held in open, publicly archived mailing lists and all development is done in logged, publicly accessible source code repositories, the interested observer can investigate and come to the real conclusion on his own to see whether either party's explanation makes sense.
If you take any organization called "WANdisco" seriously, you have bigger issues than where exactly your open source software came from :P
Monstar L
I assume a teepee and peace pipe are involved? Possibly some dancing?
in order to get noticed. News at 11:00
Well said, Ben!
--
Tomas
While I have much respect for the Apache Foundation and do not know this WANdisco guys, anyone has to admit that subversion is lagging behind in core functionality. I don't mean distributed repositories, but the one feature pack that the other systems seemingly have right: branching and merging with real rename tracking. We try to avoid branches in our projects right now because it is so unwieldy. Merge tracking changed a few things but is not really sufficient if you refactor your package structure. This is a really important feature that is on the roadmap since, I don't know, five years? On the other hand, git and mercurial just don't have the tooling (GUI) that subversion has with TortoiseSVN, SmartSVN, the Eclipse SVN Handler... There might be equivalents, but they are not as good.
Of course, it easy to criticise an Open Source project when you are not contributing anything. But I would very much appreciate any effort that goes into speeding up the implementation of this stuff.
...should fork off.
So this is what drama looks like in the open source world?
Here's WANdisco's press release, their CEO's first blog post, and his second blog post responding to community response.
[Note: The summary's second link seems to be getting slashdotted, so I'm copying its contents to a comment here. The words are not my own.]
This entry was posted by Ben Collins-Sussman on Monday, 3 January, 2011
Author’s Note: These opinions are my own. I'm one of the original folks that started the Subversion project, but no longer work on it. These thoughts do not reflect the official position of either the Subversion project or the Apache Software Foundation, which are located here on the ASF blog.
Subversion has reached the realm of Mature software — it’s yesterday’s technology, not cool or hip to work on anymore. It moves slowly. It is developed almost entirely by engineers working for corporations that need it or sell support for it. Alpha-geeks consider software like this “dead”, but the fact is that something like half of all corporate programmers use Subversion as their SCM (depending on which surveys you read.) This is a huge userbase; it may not be sexy, but it’s entrenched and here for the long haul.
Subversion isn’t unique in this position. It sits alongside other mature software such as Apache HTTPD or the GCC toolchain, which are famous projects that are similarly developed by corporate interests. There’s a tricky line to walk: none of these corporations “own” these projects. They understand that they’re acting as part of a consortium. Each interest sends representatives to the open source project, contributes code, and allows their engineers to participate in the full consensus-based evolution of the software. IBM, Apple, Google, and numerous other companies have figured out how to do this correctly:
Today, however, we have a great counterexample of how not to participate in an open source project. Subversion was initially funded and developed by CollabNet; today at least two other companies — Elego and WANdisco — are employing numerous engineers to improve Subversion, and are just as vested in selling support and derivative products. CollabNet and Elego continue to function normally in the community, but WANdisco recently seems to have lost its marbles. Last week, they put out a press release and a CEO blogpost making some crazy statements.
It’s clear that the WANdisco CEO — David Richards — is frustrated at the slow pace at which Subversion is improving. But the two posts are simply making outrageous claims, either directly or via insinuation. David seems to believe that a cabal is preventing Subversion from advancing, and that “debate” is the evil instrument being used to block progress. He believes users are crying for the product to be improved, that the Subversion developers are ignoring them, and his company is now going to ride in on a white horse to save the project. By commanding engineers to Just Fix things, he’ll “protect the future”of Subversion, “overhauling” Subversion into a “radical new” product.
Is this guy for real? It sounds like someone read my friend Karl's book and created a farce of “everything you’re not supposed to do” when participating in corporate open source.
Even weirder, he’s accusing developers of trying game statistics by creating lots of
99.99% will listen to whoever shouts loudest
This is precisely the problem with slashdot nowadays. Observe that on any given story, the first posts to get modded up are the "what do I need this for", "this sucks", "he's a prick" and so forth -- even the ones that don't provide any rationale whatsoever.
Conclusion: Slashdot is now comprised of greater than 50% teenagers.
Just the name WANDisco gives me the creeps!
> A majority of the changes in Linux are done by IBM paid employees
Nope, IBM only does about 2-3% of the development. There are thousands of contributors every release, and no one person/company does a majority of the work.
http://lwn.net/Articles/395961/
To me it seems better than TortoiseSVN. I suspect this is because the main developer of both switched what he personally uses and only maintains TortoiseSVN so as not to abandon a userbase that's come to depend on it.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop