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Russian Team Prepares To Penetrate Lake Vostok
Lanxon writes "Lake Vostok, which has been sealed off from the world for 14 million years, is about to be penetrated by a Russian drill bit. The lake, which lies four kilometers below the icy surface of Antarctica, is unique in that it's been completely isolated from the other 150 subglacial lakes on the continent for such a long time. It's also oligotropic, meaning that it's supersaturated with oxygen — levels of the element are 50 times higher than those found in most typical freshwater lakes."
Drill, baby, drill!
I fail to see the need to drill to this lake so far below the surface. For one thing I would be worried about bringing back up who knows what with organisms and bacteria that we have not seen before that could be dangerous, also don't you think they would be contaminating this lake by drilling into it?
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I hope for new life forms and new genomes for us, bioinformaticians.
The more I learn about the way the phenotype is coded in the genome, the more in awe of the creation I am.
Subhana Allah
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
So what *are* the ramifications of releasing a large pocket of oxygen into our current atmosphere, both for us and for the lake which has been sitting isolated for 14 million years? Not so much being snarky as not being a scientist and am curious. It's great that we can go anywhere that's locked away and hidden, but should we?
I fail to see the need to drill to this lake so far below the surface. For one thing I would be worried about bringing back up who knows what with organisms and bacteria that we have not seen before that could be dangerous, also don't you think they would be contaminating this lake by drilling into it?
From the article:
Now, the team has satisfied the Antarctic Treaty Secretariat, which safeguards the continent's environment, that it's come up with a technique to sample the lake without contaminating it. Valery Lukin told New Scientist: "Once the lake is reached, the water pressure will push the working body and the drilling fluid upwards in the borehole, and then freeze again." The next season, the team will bore into that frozen water to recover a sample whose contents can then be analysed.
I think it's similar to this mission at Lake Ellsworth.
My work here is dung.
The lake, which lies four kilometers below the icy surface of Antarctica
I think Russia is more than four kilometers "below" Antarctica...
In Soviet gay bar, drill bit pierces you!
I've seen this movie. It doesn't end well.
Let's assume I made (all of) the obvious joke(s) about "penetrate" so we can get that out of the way.
Finding creatures sealed off for 14 million years below 4km of ice would be pretty cool. I wonder what else is under the Antarctic ice? Was the continent ever tropical/non-icy? Might we find fossils of new species, assuming there was some way to get down there?
They'll dig up a strange UFO with some doppleganger virus that causes the whole crew to kill each other.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
"Once you pop that bubble so to speak the place will never be the same"
That is true for almost everything we do on this planet whether we like it or not. It's our modus operandi.
"And what's the chance that there's organisms that are harmful to our current ecosystems? " Not a great chance. Harm is never the ultimate goal of microorganisms that are "harmful" to us. Harm is always a byproduct of being able to use us and in order to do that, microorganism must coexist with us for some time.
Randomness * really big numbers = very little probabilities.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
With any luck you'll get to sample the genome of the great old ones.
Actually, Russia is way above Antarctica. Like "3/4 of the planet diameter" kind of higher.
I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
In Soviet Antarctica, buried lake penetrates drill hole!
Seriously. RTFA.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
If you were standing in Antarctica, and looked up I doubt you'd see Russia. ;-)
In Soviet Russia, new oligotropic overlords welcome you!
Instead of a drilling and accidentally spilling millions of gallons of hydrocarbons into the sea these people are going to drill and accidentally spill millions of gallons of dihydrogen monoxide.
Also there is apparently a pyramid down there giving off strange EM signals.
That's because it's so far up, silly. :P
I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
What does Sarah Palin think?
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Earlier reports had them buying drinks for the lake and complimenting it's clarity.
Release the Piranha!
So what *are* the ramifications of releasing a large pocket of oxygen into our current atmosphere, both for us and for the lake which has been sitting isolated for 14 million years?
Your fears are unfounded, from the article:
Now, the team has satisfied the Antarctic Treaty Secretariat, which safeguards the continent's environment, that it's come up with a technique to sample the lake without contaminating it. Valery Lukin told New Scientist: "Once the lake is reached, the water pressure will push the working body and the drilling fluid upwards in the borehole, and then freeze again." The next season, the team will bore into that frozen water to recover a sample whose contents can then be analysed.
So they're taking the appropriate precautions there ...
Not so much being snarky as not being a scientist and am curious. It's great that we can go anywhere that's locked away and hidden, but should we?
The moon was "locked away" but we went there, didn't we?
Everyone needs to relax, there's an expedition to explore Lake Ellsworth and we've already explored an ultra-oligotrophic lake named Hodgson Lake and the results:
They found... nothing. The analyses show that the Hodgson Lake water 'is one of the clearest water lakes I have ever worked on, clearer than the distilled water we use in our lab, with almost nothing in it,' says Hodgson. The samples have virtually no nutrients such as nitrogen and phosphorus, and very low measurements of other chemical elements.
So they're going to take necessary precautions approved by a governing body and the odds are high that their results will just turn up some of the purest water we've ever seen. Of course the article notes that if they find extremophiles, it'll be a boon for studying the many protective enzymes the organisms need to live.
My work here is dung.
I mean we're going to contaminate something that's been isolated for a long long time.
Read (and comprehend) the fucking articles and stop spreading FUD, numb-nuts.
I am so utterly disappointed by the article.
Isn't this how the movie Alien vs Predator started?
The world is how you make it
The Cthulhu Clone Wars! Coming this Fall on Cartoon Network!
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Maybe you'll get to sample the genome of Allah! I heard he lives somewhere down there....
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
A Colder War
I think it's similar to this mission at Lake Ellsworth.
It sounds like one of those Space Odyssey books, without leaving earth.
Home of The Suki Series
Is that a trick question?
...release unknown, ancient pathogens into the atmosphere...
which can't survive in our environment which has 1/50 the oxygen they are used to?
...so they can drill it next year to extract specimens...
like 2012? uh oh, you may be on to something. :-)
Ascalante: Your bride is over 3,000 years old.
Kull: She told me she was 19!
and here I was worried about peak oxygen!
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
So I read the article and I follow the links and I see nothing that explains how, for a lake that has never been breached and sampled, they know it is super saturated with oxygen.
I also see no evidence that the lake is under pressure and will force the drilling fluids back up the drill hole.
Is it just me or is this whole thing just assumption on top of assumption?
eldavojohn explained it here in answer to someone who asked the same question as you.
In short, they've actually thought of the possible problems! Will wonders never cease?
Free Martian Whores!
It is a valid question, if you Drop the "What."
MOD PARENT UP.
(and have them buy me a new keyboard. pepsi does not exactly help keyboards...)
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
How do they know what the oxygen concentration is if they haven't drilled into it yet?
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
To be fair, theory and practice are in theory identical; in practice, not so much.
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The water pressure from the lake will come up the drill-hole and freeze. It's some of that ice that will be examined at a later date.
Still, nothing like bothering to RTFA!
Actually, Russia is way above Antarctica. Like "3/4 of the planet diameter" kind of higher.
Or just 1/4 of the planet's diameter the other way. Saves on gas too.
That is not dead which can eternal lie.
And with strange aeons even death may die.
It just means an environment which is low in nutrients.
The lake just happens to have high oxygen levels because of high pressure from the layers of ice - that doesn't make it oligotrophic.
Wish I had mod points!!! :) Just made my afternoon.
I wonder if they will find anyTHING?
"Peter, what are you doing Peter?!"
*Nom nom nom nom nom and radio static*
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
No, it means that the lake has very few nutrients and is therefore not terribly productive biologically. see here. Many lakes that fall into the oligotropic chategory are also Oxygenated but it is not why they are oligotropic.
The real question I have is where that Oxygen is coming from. There probably isn't much photosynthesis going on at that depth which means either Oxygen is being imported to the system, it isn't being consumed very rapidly or it's being generated somehow.
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
Cool to see they have a plan for getting info without causing harm. Hopefully it all works well.
The researchers involved on site have my respect. Here's some info about where they work:
Ave. winter temp: -65C, ave. summer temp: -30C
Altitude: 3488m
Record low temp: -89C. Good thing they are at altitude, as CO2 freezing point is -78C at 1atm.
Polar night for 130 days.
I like science... but I don't like science that much.
I can't believe no one has come up with some stupid sexual double entendre joke about penetration. I thought I knew you /.
Well this is a completely uncharted lake with like hitherto unclassified marine life man, so the whole scene's wide open for a scientific exploration. The real hang-up was with the bread man but when the top brass pigs came through we got it together in a couple of moons. Commodore Betty Grable, who's a real sub-aqua head, has got together diving wise and like the whole gig's been a real gas man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DlN4Sh06po
Bloody sharks.
.
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
Never drink and slashdot.
The two of you need to get a globe. Google has a free one.
My blog
Fine, but don't forget to use all that information to extend the useful lifespan for us, users of the genome.
You mean some schmuck on slashdot didn't discover new problems that elitist scientists, probably played by Oliver Platt, with their Lexuses (Lexi?) and mistresses and ear of the president, up in their ivory tower of Oxford or Yale or Brown didn't think about?
Not much of a script writer, are you?
In Soviet Russia, new oligotropic overlords welcome you!
Oxygen, or was it carbon dioxide?
Yea, lets all sit on our hands and not touch anything ever again... we might CHANGE something!?!!
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Oh yeah "Ooh, aah", that's how it always starts. But then there's running and screaming.
It was clearly spelled out in the transmission from the pyramid. What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" didn't you understand?
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
This will inevitably lead to a new brand of vodka advertised as being made with "14 million year old, subglacial, super-oxygenated water".
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
nah, they obviously wrote that Mayan calendar just for ME, since I'm eligible to retire Dec 21, 2012. Life as I know it will certainly end, but probably not life as most people know it.
Free Martian Whores!
Ssshhh. Watching two idiots argue is hilarious good fun. Don't spoil it.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Am I the only one who at first read that as, "Russian Team Prepares To Penetrate Lady Vostok"?
Would it be impolite to point out that she has accomplished far more in life than you or I have, or probably ever will? If Sarah Palin is dumb, therefore, there's a significantly greater than zero chance that you and I are even dumber.
She thinks that she saw 'Antarctica' from her back yard, of course.
Right. No, your other right. No, the other other right.
Or at least you. As unqualified for the presidency as she may be, I'm at least smart enough to recognize that she almost certainly do worse than the current holder of that office, who is even less qualified and who appears to be on track to beat out Jimmy Carter as the least competent holder of that office during my lifetime (not that Jimmy Carter is not a highly competent individual in other areas; he just wasn't competent as POTUS).
Perhaps she might think that "they're our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska." On the other hand, Tina Fey (playing Sarah Palin) might think "I can see Russia from my house." [source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_misconceptions#United_States_politics ]
That is not dead which can eternal lie, until poked with Russian drill bits...
It would be cool if there was an ancient temple down there where Aliens and Predators are fighting each other to the death.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
... there's a significantly greater than zero chance that you and I are even dumber.
How significant? 40% more than zero? This means you're still probably smarter than Palin. And that's gotta be something to be proud of.
I went to battle M.C. Escher, but drew a blank.
With the supersaturation of the water with O2, I am wondering if much of that O2 will come out of the water when it is breached, most likely destroying the environment down there. I see it kind of like the lakes supersaturated with CO2 in Africa. I didn't see this mentioned at all in the article, just that they expect the water to refreeze.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Don't introduce facts into an arguement
Would it be impolite to point out that she has accomplished far more in life than you or I have, or probably ever will? If Sarah Palin is dumb, therefore, there's a significantly greater than zero chance that you and I are even dumber.
That is based on the ridiculous notion that intelligence equates to fame. To make this point, I only have two words - "Jersey Shore".
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train.
Would it be impolite to point out that she has accomplished far more in life than you or I have, or probably ever will?
Only if you consider corrupt politicians to be role models for accomplishment...
Haida Manga
Accomplishments != intelligence. You can be very dumb and very accomplished. It isn't common, but it happens. I don't care what she accomplished or accomplishes, I can tell you with 100% certainty that I am not dumber than she is. I also have little doubt she could not have accomplished anything without a lot of smarter people making decisions for her. I would also like to point out that I still am at my job, and didn't quit halfway through, so I consider myself more accomplished in my employment record.
"But this one goes to 11!"
I prefer my elitist scientists played by Dennis Quaid, with Jake Gyllenhaal playing his plucky estranged son.
And Michael Bay should ALWAYS, ALWAYS direct.
I am not sure which is worst, the fact that they could poke a hole into something that could release too much oxygen and repair the ozone in one foul swoop, and make all the hoopla about global warming end, and return the world into a gas only consumer haven, or that it might release some sort of bacteria, or worse, unknown species into our ecosystem, which could bring about the end. Either way, you lose....in one hand, all your money as gas prices rocket back up, or in the other people die slow deaths.
> ...our environment which has 1/50 the oxygen they are used to?
lake Vostok has 50 times as much oxygen as the typical freshware lake, not 50 times as much oxygen as the atmosphere. A typical freshwater lake has much, much less oxygen than the atmosphere.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
I wonder if Coca-Cola, Pepsi, or some Russian bottling company has thought of trying to acquire the rights to bottle water from the lake. It's Antarctica, so it's legally & technically challenging. But I can imagine quite a market for 14-million year-old bottled water. Seriously!
I think it's unlikely that most of the O2 will come out of solution. They're creating a relatively small-diameter bore into the container of the liquid, and then pulling the drill back out, allowing the pressure inside the container to push water back up into the bore. The water will freeze, resealing the bore, then they'll take a sample of the ice that re-froze in the bore hole to analyze, so nothing 'alien' will be introduced *into* the lake's container.
For an analogy, think of this as drawing blood by jabbing you with a needle, letting the resulting drop of blood scab over, and then scraping off a piece of the resulting scab to analyze. The chances are as good that this will cause some sort of catastrophic explosion of oxygen out of the lake as the chances that jabbing you with a small hypodermic would cause all the blood in your body to spontaneously erupt out of every orifice.
fuck off im tired of this shit. why dont you go listen to some more sound bytes that make your opponant sound dumb you fucking idiot.
I suppose I don't have an idea of scale of this. I was thinking of a rather small lake, I guess it is much larger.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Is she more famous than 99% of the people on slashdot? Yeah, I'd say so. But more accomplished? I think it would be safe to say that you believe she's accomplished more than you, but I'm not sure if you could say that about everyone. Of course it all depends on what yardstick you're using to measure accomplishment. Is becoming a state governor more or less of an accomplishment than saving a person's life? Is raising a family more or less of an accomplishment than holding one together in poverty? etc... I think you get my point.
That would be a rhetorical question, surely.
I'd mod you up to 11, if I could
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
Don't be silly, didn't you read Mountains of Madness? It was the Elder Things (as named by Professor Dyer ill-fated expedition) that lived in Antarctica, they were around before Cthulu showed up and had some nasty run-ins with his posse of Star-spawn. Then once Antarctica got too cold for them they moved to a subterranean ocean. So yeah, we're about to drill into their porch.
I wouldn't call it an "accomplishment" as in something to strive for, but she has definitely had a larger impact than most of us.
Yep, from the wikipedia entry, the lake is ~250 km long, and ~50 km wide at its widest point - it's of a size with Lake Ontario, so it's definitely a pretty big body of water.
Any wagers as to whether fish are in that lake and what they might look like?
Except that's not even true.
His approval ratings are higher than Bush or Carter, he has had more victories for his agenda than most presidents in the first two years, has an astoundingly high approval rating OUTSIDE of the US, certainly higher than Bush and even Reagan during his first two years.
While the health care thing is probably a non-ideal solution, it is apparently too painful for republicans to realize that it was an almost exact copy of the bill originally drafted by Bob Dole and rejected by democrats for being "too conservative". Frankly, it sounds like partisan hackery or talking-point-itis to claim he's the most incompetent president on record.
I'm almost certain he was referring to her position in the ranks of government and not her level of fame.
Humans are terrible replicators of Godly things.
I'm a KDE person, myself.
As a world famous demagogue she should be having a larger impact on the modern news cycle than any of us. Who knows how long it'll last? *shrug* The mob is a fickle creature, and it's hard to tell if someone is going to become a mainstay or will fade into anonymity in a decade or two.
But as for impact on the world outside the headlines and politics? I don't think she'll be very effective in actually producing change.
If Sarah Palin is dumb, therefore, there's a significantly greater than zero chance that you and I are even dumber.
You've probably now realized just how dumb this comment is.
If you were standing in Antarctica, and looked up I doubt you'd see Russia. ;-)
Maybe you wouldn't, but Sarah Penguin, Former Governor of Antarctica would.
My guess they will penetrate through to the lake on December 22, 2012 coinciding with the end of the Mayan calendar.
And what position would that be? 1/2 term governor of the least populated (and least educated http://www.adn.com/2008/05/06/398390/alaskas-bent-learning-curve.html) states in the union, or mayor of Wasilla?
Well, excuuuuuse me! Move over Einstein.
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train.
Assuming you had high school student council, I'm willing to bet that the winners won based on popularity (read: fame), not the ability to do the job.
This is not the funny you're looking for.
I'm not a Sarah Palin fan, but I hope this gets modded up as informative. It's amazing how many famous people are misquoted (no, Al Gore never claimed he invented the Internet).
I'm an exiled Hapsburg, you ignorant slob!
I am hoping that when they finally puncture the final layer and break into the area with all that oxygen, the first thing that will happen the be the most epic balloon-neck pulling sound EVER. The most wacky, high-pitched WHEEEEEE noise you have ever heard, just like when you release all the air from a balloon slowly by releasing and pinching the neck. And they can push the drill up and down rapidly to make it sound even wackier. Just hoping.
The point is, that is what she said in response to a question asking about her foreign policy experience, implying that physical proximity to Russia was somehow significant.
The "I can see Russia from my house" line is just a convenient shorthand that perfectly sums up how ridiculous and air-headed her real response actually was. Nitpickers are missing the point.
"Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
RTFA. They stopped for 18 years because of that worry. They have a way to prevent contamination. They'll use a thermal lance to finish the last of the hole, withdraw and wait for the water to re-freeze. Apparently, they will then be able to capture a small isolated bubble of the water next year. I don't get how that works, but they have been pretty careful.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Man... I thought it was a real island too sitting off Alaska coast in the Bering strait.
So what is your take on it AC?
help me understand???
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
I would be worried about bringing back up who knows what with organisms and bacteria that we have not seen before that could be dangerous
So, drilling a hole in the ground and sucking out millions of barrels of hydrocarbons, which have been isolated for thousands (or millions) of years, as well as any organisms living there is fine. Collecting a sample from a lake that has been isolated for thousands of years for research is the beginning of the apocalypse?
The problem is that the "oil" that lives in that underground water lake is a malevolent alien entity!
We shall obtain the Arctic oil
We shall arrange the blocks and toil
forever and a day!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWTFG3J1CP8
I don't think that I'd like to count her "accomplishments" as mine. Being a dumb politican -- doesn't look so good on resume. She is dumb, that doesn't mean she can't "accomplish" much. Snoop Dogg also "accomplished" much, you see.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Negative impact, that is.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
I'd mod you funny, but it would just get undone. Don't worry, I always strike out with that type of humour as well. +1 meta, though.
Yes, praise Zeus!
Intelligence != Accomplishments. You can be very smart and very unaccomplished.
And their shoggoth welcome-wagons.
"I am an Adept of Tantric VAX."
Failed mother, failed governor, probably would be in a jail cell without powerful friends - how is that success?
I think the majority of people here have made a more positive contribution to society or have made some sort of accomplishment more impressive than being the front person for a political lottery then treating the outcome as a prize instead of a job.
So yes, I have accomplished more than her and even the poster that brought it up probably has as well.
Not to single you out personally, but this thread is supposedly about an under-ice lake in Antarctica, and you guys are arguing about Sarah Palin's popularity numbers on /.?
Why the !@#$ isn't this whole thread modded -99 off-topic?
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
Can they really be construed as stupid, though?
You have to wonder how many of them came to the realization that acting like a complete douche/whore makes them marketable to large segments of the opposite sex as well as making them interesting enough to ensure the next season of the show gets produced. They're raking in millions of dollars a year acting like gussied-up morons on national television.
Finally, the American dream has been realized and someone has found a way to make money acting like a complete ass in public.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
Can they really be construed as stupid, though?
From what I've seen, yes, unequivocally yes - stupid as a rock.
Now their agents/handlers/promoters? Brilliant.
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train.
You're so unintelligent you use dumb as a synonym for unintelligent.
News Flash! After analysis of the core sample, the Russians have that the entire lake is filled with Absolut Vodka! Strangely enough, the recon team has refused to return home. Analysis of background noise in radio contacts reveal comments such as !
Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
Would it be impolite to point out that she has accomplished far more in life than you or I have, or probably ever will? If Sarah Palin is dumb, therefore, there's a significantly greater than zero chance that you and I are even dumber.
Only true if you believe that we live in a society where social order is correlated to intelligence.
If intelligence basically means thriving & succeeding in *your environment*, then yes, she is more intelligent than most people. Most people "do ok" and "get by" in their environment. Of course that doesn't mean she is of much value to the human race in terms of its overall survivability and success.
Then again, maybe so. History is full of both the outrageous and outstanding, and it seems we need both as fuel for the reactor. Perhaps that's just how the machine of human society moves from one place to another. In which case Palin, as part of that process, occupies a perfectly valid role.
A lot of things come together to sway public opinion. It's easy to forget that leaders are a product of the environment as well as an influence on it.
If intelligence basically means thriving & succeeding in *your environment*, then yes, she is more intelligent than most people.
By that definition of intelligence, the fungus growing around the waste water pond is intelligent. No, I think intelligence has a more formal definition than that:
1. capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.
2. manifestation of a high mental capacity: He writes with intelligence and wit.
3. the faculty of understanding.
Fungus is not intelligent, ergo neither is ("We must stand by our North Korean allies") Palin.
Good try though.
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train.
Why the !@#$ isn't this whole thread modded -99 off-topic?
Why off-topic?
The Russians are drilling in Antarctica. Antarctica has lots of ice, so does the North Pole. The North Pole is somewhere in Alaska (at least the magnetic one). From Alaska you can see Russia, and the Russians are drilling in Antarctica.
The Russians are drilling in Antarctica. Palin would like to drill in Alaska. There are concerns about the environmental impact. But the Russians found a safer way of doing it. Palin is against safer ways of doing it. But the Russians would like to penetrate Lake Vostok. So the Russians are drilling in Antarctica.
The Russians are drilling in Antarctica. Russia borders the Arctic. The Arctic has Polar bears, but the Russians went to the pole with the penguins. Penguins represent Linux. Linux is communism. And communism is what the Russians do. No wonder, the Russians are drilling in Antarctica.
The Russians are drilling in Antarctica...
New here?
"Everybody knew Jimmy Carter was incompetent."
I think those judgements are things that appear on TV -- you know, like the commercials for Big Energy, Big Banking and Big War -- all three industries that Jimmy Carter actually had the cojones to work against.
He started MINTING the Silver Dollar -- through the US Mint. That is not a trifle -- because initially "only Congress may mint coin" -- and so they do; Quarters, Dimes, Nickles and things like that. The Federal Reserve, which is really a group of well positioned bankers, gets to RENT US, our own money -- which guarantees that we can never, ever pay them back. Money is put into reality via debt instruments.
The Oil Embargo, the high rate of inflation, and other issues Carter had to deal with -- was due to the manipulations of the very industries his practices were hurting.
Popularity, by the Corporations that benefit, seems to me a dubious way to decide "who governed the best."
>> Jimmy Carter managed to NOT start a lot of wars. The ACTUAL buying power of the Middle Class in this country, was pretty sound -- you have to remember how manipulations of oil prices and "money" instruments, were hurting the economy. When Reagan came into office, he sold out to Big Oil, Big War, and Big Banking -- and they called off their little war.
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
Fungus is not intelligent, ergo neither is ("We must stand by our North Korean allies") Palin.
I disagree. Seriously, it depends on your perspective.
Palin says and does "dumb" things - culturally speaking. If she lived in North Korea, maybe not seen as dumb at all. She can't do calculus? We don't worry about that, most of us can't. She can't spell something? We all laugh, Palin dumb. Completely relative.
Ok forget that, just this. Palin steps up, speaks her mind, contributes to *global* conversation, manages to get support whatever merit or otherwise her ideas have. She tries to participate, tried to win. Most people watch news, post on discussion boards, don't influence anyone, probably never write to their MPs. So who is doing the "smarter" thing?
I say "smart" on purpose. You can define intelligence however you want, but if you adhere to Darwin then it matters not how survival is achieved only that it is. Palin is, in our terms, more intelligent than the Cro-Magnon, but Cro was intelligent enough to stick around and lead to us. Who knows *how* we will lead to what comes after - it only matters that we do.
Who is to say where Palin fits into the human story, our destiny as a species? If you want to judge, then prove the value of your contribution.
I, for one, welcome the coming of Homo Palinus.
As much as I dispose Obama, it is admittedly unfair to compare Bush's approval ratings to his for two reasons. Bush had the largest range of approval of any president in history, and he served for 8 years vs Obama's 2. What is more important is how fast Obama's has dropped. At the rate he has gone, by the time his first and last term are up, he will pass Bush.
It is also unwise to say that he is incompetent. He is very competent. He just also happens to be evil.
I don't understand. Do you mean Obama is evil? If so, why? Or was Bush evil? And if so, why?
-- Cheers!
If there is a temple down there, then neither of those pussies dare go there for fear of shoggoths.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
"So is it going to freeze before it hits the top of the bore then? If not that means we're releasing whatever is in that water into our environment. That could be really really bad any way you look at it."
Mmm.... let's see, who should I trust? a slashdot computer programming poster who's spent 20 minutes or so thinking about the problem, or a team of scientists who live in the Antarctic, and have spent the last 5 years calculating all the possible angles and have had to justify their experiment to a group of highly trained peers (Antarctic Treaty Secretariat)?
I'm going to go with the geological scientists. I might be wrong, but it's just a hunch ;-)
It is a valid question, if you Drop the "What."
Nope, with the "What" dropped, it's just a dumb question.
How the heck did a discussion about a frozen lake beneath Antarctica veer into you bragging about coaching President Obama?
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Would it be impolite to point out that she has accomplished far more in life than you or I have, or probably ever will? If Sarah Palin is dumb, therefore, there's a significantly greater than zero chance that you and I are even dumber.
Not impolite as much as irrelevant. You seem to relate well-known with intelligent. The truly intelligent keep their lights well hidden (so I've heard) - for fear of pitchforks.
Of course it's possible you are right, in which case the cow that kicked a bucket that knocked over a lamp that burnt down a city, accomplished far more than Sarah Palin.
And as for "dumber", speak for yourself.
To further confuse "competency" with "dumb" and "accomplished" enables you to make compare with Jimmy Carter (ex-President) with someone who *has not* become President.
Neither competency, dumbness, or smartness explains the reasons for Kennedy beating his opponent. Your "idea" of competency appears based on comparing the actions of an individual against a machine represented as an individual - and there's an irony there somewhere (in the not-Alanis sense).
Ronald Reagan was possibly the most accomplished of president in the last fifty years - and he had his smartest bits removed in a fundamental surgical procedure. I suspect your inhaling some nasty fumes from that torch you're carrying. Hint: accomplished == get "things" done.
Disclaimer: I'm not North American so I know nothing.
I'm at least smart enough to recognize that she almost certainly do worse than the current holder of that office, who is even less qualified and who appears to be on track to beat out Jimmy Carter as the least competent holder of that office
It's hard to know where to start - you have so many things demonstrably and patently wrong. Sigh. You *might* be smart, but... you're basing her future performance on wishful thinking - so far she's made more public fuckups than Bush jnr.
Jimmy Carter was in office for how long?
It'll be a long time before anyone comes close to overcoming the sort of odds that the present president did to gain office. That he's still alive *and* in office with the level of hatred and sheer willful stupidity ranged against him is demonstration of incredible political skill - to put that down to sheer luck requires major cerebral trauma.
Congratulations. You're carrying a torch for a presidential candidate supported by her parties opposition - they, and the rest of the world recognize that her natural constituency don't vote or pay taxes. Maybe she could team up with Pauline Hanson - they could call themselves the Duh team.
Apropos of whatever - In Australia "Tea Party" is a reference to people who dress up in the underwear of the opposite sex under their street clothes - and meet for English hot beverages in public places. From what I can gather it's not much different in the USA.
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The Russians are drilling in Antarctica...
The Russians are very accomplished
Most people watch news, post on discussion boards, don't influence anyone, probably never write to their MPs. So who is doing the "smarter thing"
Actually, posting on discussion boards (assuming your arguments are persuasive) is not a bad way to reach a lot of people who might only watch Fox news and never hear any position other than that of the right, especially for those of us that don't have as big a microphone as Palin. And while you're giving her such credit for standing up and "speaking her mind", remember that she quit 1/2 way through her term because "she arrived at her decision in part to protect her family, which has faced withering criticism and occasional mockery, and to escape ethics probes that have drained her family's finances and hampered her ability to govern". Yea, that "withering criticism and occasional mockery" thing - I'm sure that'd never happen if she became POTUS. Most likely she really quit because she had offers for more $$$ from book deals and TV shows.
Contrary to how this discussion has gone, I don't have any ill will toward Palin and wish her success in her career as a reality show star and Fox news analyst. But as the leader of the free world? GMAFB! Is she really the best the right wing can come up with? It's important for POTUS to make good decisions, be able to communicate effectively (without offending everyone around them) and to not quit when things get tough. IMO, Palin fails on all three counts.
You are certainly entitled to your opinions as am I. I understand that intelligent people can have differing opinions on public policy and lean right or lean left. However, what baffles me is that, when it comes to picking the leadership in this country, the right always seem to value how "average" the person is, rather how "exceptional" they are (in terms of intelligence, perseverance and general leadership qualities).
In any case, thanks for a good discussion.
Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train.
So did Franz Reichelt.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Boris: Ok, we're just about ready to examine the ice sampl-- (notices the long fizz after Stefanovsky puts ice in his Pepsi)
Er, Stefan, where's the ice we pulled from the lake?
Stefan: You mean the ice that was over here (points to empty sample dish)?
(Later) hello Moscow, we've lost Stefan, we'll have to continue without him...
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
cursed spell check...
Would it be impolite to point out that she has accomplished far more in life than you or I have, or probably ever will? If Sarah Palin is dumb, therefore, there's a significantly greater than zero chance that you and I are even dumber.
Gotten to a higher political position than me? Sure. Accomplished more? Hell no. My research alone, not to mention my other work, far outshines anything she's ever done with her life. Of course, my work isn't going to be on the news.
In fact, most people on slashdot over the age of 30 have accomplished far more than Palin. But, again, it's not dramatic enough to be on the news.
Similar to the upcoming US election results