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Court Rules Dungeons and Dragons Threatens Prison Security
KermodeBear writes "Dungeons and Dragons — originally Satan's Game — has now been found to encourage gang-like behavior. In a finding by a three judge panel of the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals, D&D 'can mimic the organization of gangs and lead to the actual development thereof.' From the ruling: 'during D&D games, one player is denoted the "Dungeon Master." 'The Dungeon Master is tasked with giving directions to other players, which Muraski testified mimics the organization of a gang.'"
Okay, okay, fine. Just have them play Paranoia instead. That oughta screw up the Court of Appeals.
Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
the DM is anything but a "leader" in D&D. His job is more akin to that of the judges themselves, that passed this retarded ruling.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Haven't they got better things to do, like reducing the prevalence of weapons, drugs, alcohol and cellular phones in prisons?
... hierarchical command structures are everywhere in our society?
[Offtopic] Is it just me, or the new Slashdot design seems to have chased away most of the people out there? Most stories are very short on comments! Come on people, get back to trolling and bashing stuff!!
Have you heard about SoylentNews?
So don't let them all play rogues. What's the big deal?
"Ok, what do you do?"
"I backstab"
"Backstab"
"Um...Backstab?"
"I shank him"
"You're not supposed to say it like that! We'll get in trouble"
"Fine, jeeze...'backstab'"
"These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
I served 15 days in a county Jail (under Huber law) about 15 years ago or so I actually brought a few roleplaying books in with me, and set up a gaming session. (most of the guys in there with me were in for minor drug possession, and quite a few were gamers). I wound up running a 36 hour gaming session where people picked up and left off when they got tired, or had to go to work. It helped pass the time immensely, and gaming made my two weeks in jail go a lot faster than it would have otherwise.
Don't get me wrong, it was still a terrible experience, and I wouldn't want to go back (and I haven't!). But banning things like D&D isn't going to solve anything.
The Employer is tasked with giving directions to employees, which Muraski testified mimics the organization of a gang.
The Teacher is tasked with giving directions to students, which Muraski testified mimics the organization of a gang.
The Emergency Broadcast System is tasked with giving directions to the public during an emergency, which Muraski testified mimics the organization of a gang.
Really? When you have criteria for gang behavior that is that loose, anything can be classified and banned.
The Warden is tasked with giving directions to prisoners, which Muraski testified mimics the organization of a gang.
...religious services banned in prisons.
They mimic gang activity, there is a "priest" or "sheik" or "prophet" that tells the other participants how to interpret and act on religious texts
but that the game encourages players to become obsessed with mentally escaping the restrictions of prison life
Because surely it NEVER occurred to inmates to attempt to mentally escape the restrictions of prison life until the DM told them to
Make them pee in a cup, make the results public.
To be fair, it seems Fox News is the culprit this time (well, editors could have noticed the dupe but really that would be going a bit above what I've come to expect from them). The Fox News article is dated yesterday, Jan 26, 2011; the sources that they reference are dated Jan 26, 2010. So yeah, pretty much exactly a year old, probably someone searching for a topic entered the wrong date on their criteria and we end up with a year old dupe on the front page.
"A three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit weighed in Wednesday [that's yesterday]."
So how is this story "at least a year old"? RTFA!
Oh and I can't help noticing the description about D&D is reminiscent of ANY organization. A Master ordering people what to do? Sounds like the President of my country or the CEO of my company.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
Got me into eating small white pills. And don't even get me started on "candy"-land. And Battleship? I heard it trains terrorists on how to sink ships.
Honestly, they can find the most ridiculous things to try and turn something harmless into a big deal. D&D is not what created gangs. Gangs create gangs. And they certainly aren't running around screaming "lightning bolt" and talking about going into unexplored caves to find treasure out on the streets. This is beyond hilarious for anyone who has any kind of knowledge of both D&D and gang-related activities.
"I hope you know how very lucky you are to know me, because I am so incredibly incredible."
The 7th circuit did *not* find that D&D encourages gang-like behavior. What it found is that this prisoner didn't provide any relevant evidence that it doesn't encourage gang-like behavior. Basically, the warden said "Hey, this sort of thing looks like something which could encourage gangs -- it mimics human interaction. So, we're banning it." The inmate could have gone out and found other wardens who said "No, we've had it in our prison, and it's been fine." But, he didn't. Instead, he found other inmates (or former inmates). And that's not good enough.
Oh and I can't help noticing the description about D&D is reminiscent of ANY organization. A Master ordering people what to do? Sounds like the President of my country or the CEO of my company.
Did you also notice how it's wrong with relation to D&D?
The Dungeon Master doesn't tell players what to do, he's asks them what they are going to do, and the DM just tells them the consequences.
The enemies of Democracy are
A while ago I had a case before the trial judge here. Knowing his personality, and age, it amuses me to no end to imagine the efforts the prisoners must have gone through to explain to him what Dungeons and Dragons is.
Believe it or not, prisoners aren't allowed to be coaches, bosses, or chiefs of police either.
The Dungeon Master doesn't tell players what to do, he's asks them what they are going to do, and the DM just tells them the consequences.
Yeah, this is nothing like a gang! More like the mob...
"Thats an awfully nice D12 you got there...be a real shame if you didn't roll higher then a 5 on it..."
Never saw Mazes and Monsters or saw news (hysteria really) from the 80's about D&D?
My parents almost made me see a psychiatrist over that crap until my brother and I sat my Mom down and made her play a game with us. We interspersed the play with quips about how it was encouraging us to read, expanding our vocabulary and working our imagination in ways that TV and Video Games never could.
Can't say I specifically remember "Satan's Game" but doesn't sound far off...
Wait, is this one of those whooosh moments? Sorry, nm.
Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
A midshipman at the US Naval Academy was asked what the difference was between being in the Navy or a gang. He thought for a moment and said, "we have uniforms". It was the Washington Post, IIRC, and for all I know it may have been fabricated by the same reporter who wrote "Jimmy's World, the story of a 9 year old heroin addict".
It still has a ring of truth to it though.
So yeah, every social order is gang if you want to look at it that way. Did any of these people making the call actually, you know, check to see if DD players in prison were getting into more trouble, or less trouble?
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Courts rule that political parties are now illegal in the prison systems. Democrats, Republicans, Greens, Libertarians, and so forth are obviously modeled after gang organizations, and thus should be allowed. Especially those Tea Party-ers who like to engage in an activity they dub "tea bagging" - which in a prison is just wrong on so many levels.
I was gangsta way back in 81'. Suck on it bitches, the druid's in da house!
"Ones and zeros were everywhere. I even think I saw a two!" - Bender
Make them pee in a cup, make the results public.
That should be mandatory for all bureaucrats and elected officials. And anybody else that wants to inflict drug testing on someone else.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Did you also notice how it's wrong with relation to D&D?
The Dungeon Master doesn't tell players what to do, he's asks them what they are going to do, and the DM just tells them the consequences.
"You are standing in a steamy prison shower, about 15x24' with twelve shower heads lining the walls. Five of them are being used by what appear to be orcish gang members. Make a dexterity check, at minus two due to its slipperiness, to maintain your grip on your soap."
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
I actually watched the oral argument for this case, and the appointed counsel did a really hideous job ... one of the judges (based on the testimony of the correctional officer at trial) was talking about "escapism" being a problem that was promoted by dungeons and dragons, as in it would actually lead to the players escaping from the jail. The attorney completely missed this, didn't even familiarize himself with the material that was being discussed, and generally did a half-assed job of informing the court, which also admitted they had no idea how the game worked or what its implications were. I only partially blame the judges -- after all, part of your job is to inform the court of your arguments and interpretations of facts. That's what an oral argument is for.
So yes, "escapism" is a real problem. I expect the next things to be banned in the seventh circuit to be books, closely followed by looking out the window, closely followed by thinking.
Anyway, the judges have betrayed two things:
1. They have never been in a gang, because gang heirarchy doesn't work that way.
2. They have never played Dungeons & Dragons, because they think people actually listen to the DM.
Well, my gang and I will be getting together this weekend to try and tackle the Tomb of Horrors. Hope the cops don't show up and bust us like they kicked us off a frozen pond while playing hockey a few weekends ago.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
the DM just tells them the consequences.
You mean like a panel of judges???
the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
There was also a Wednesday last year.
TFA does not mention dates, but the referenced court documents are all dated 2010. The Geeks Are Sexy (citation needed) link is also dated today, but it references an Above the Law story from a year ago.
Yup - that was me - 13 years old, with a stack of graph paper, a bunch of pencils, and a bag of funny shaped dice. 100% pure gangsta!
who's moderating the meta-moderators?
Gang-"like" behavior? Because there are no gangs in prison? Or because the court would rather the inmate join a real gang than a D&D party? Is there a ban on team sports in jail too, because that's gang-like behavior too...
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Jesus saves, Everyone else takes full damage...
Ahh screw it, I bend over and grit my teeth. Even prison rape is preferable to dealing with D&D's grapple rules.
No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
Jesus saves,
Gretzky steals... He shoots... He SCORES!!!
Yeah, but I bet the CEO of your company isn't trying to kill you.
You must not work for HP.
Similar to the upcoming US election results