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Apple Hints At Near-Field Payments System In Next-Gen iPhone, iPad
An anonymous reader writes "The smartphone seems to be well on its way to becoming the next wallet; and Apple could be pushing that movement along. Reports from several outlets suggest the Cupertino, Calif.-based electronics giant has plans to put a near-field communications chip in the next versions of the iPhone and iPad for contactless payments technology. The latest report, from blog Apple Insider, says Apple has put up two job postings for two global payment platforms managers."
The site is incredibly obnoxious. Ads pop up over the content from time to time. Avoid if possible. Hope someone can find an article on this on another site.
Several people commented on the ads and tracking cookies and whatnot on that site. Here's an alternate article on the same topic.
Why do I want this? I'm more than willing to get a piece of plastic out of my wallet or on my keychain to pay for something. I can't wait for the hack that lets people walk by you and get you to pay for things. It's bad enough credit cards have RFID tags in them now. I don't need my phone doing it too.
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I've seen a lot of stories pop up around this, but I'm not quite sure why - for one thing, doesn't the most recent Google Android phone already include an NFC chip and support in the OS? So it's not like Apple is the first here, they haven't even confirmed they are doing it!
Also, in more general terms, I don't know why people get freaked out about this. It's just another way to pay for things.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Why not wait and see how it's implemented before judging it?
.can this chip be disabled, or even better, removed or not added as an option?
Yes don't buy an iphone etc...
I'm trying to go more cash as it is...keep CC spending down..
and you wonder why they are doing this?
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
...to take your money. That is all.
And as long as the other phone manufacturers don't you're fine. But if it ends up being like other advancements such as those stupid soft keyboards on smart phones it gets harder and harder to find something decent that doesn't have one.
Moreover, for Apple to make people use such technology, must ensure that it will be no easy target of malicious attacks. So attackers can't replicate account information, intercept data communications and whatever mechanism for identity theft.
"Service" charges on electronic cash transactions to me are little more than taxation without representation. The only choice one can make is who skims your money. If these services are to be a replacement for legal tender, what charter protects them as legal tender transactions? At what point does this bypass democracy? (Thinking of Wikileaks donation issue, among others).
First Steve Jobs invents the computer. Then he invents the GUI. Then he invents the MP3 player. Then he invent the cell phone. Then he invents the tablet computer. Now he invents NFC. The man is single-handedly inventing everything!
My carrier recently rolled out a phone based payment system, I was asked to be part of the trial. I declined.
They want me to spend $1.50 per transaction to use it. I can use my debit card for free, I can use cash for free, and my visa card actually pays me to use it, why on earth would I want to give my carrier $1.50 for each transaction? I don't pay bank fees, they already get the privilege of using my money while it's in their care, I refuse to pay money to get access to it.
Sure, the chip can be there, but if you don't have a NFP account then it doesn't matter.
From what I heard it's for small transactions; like convenience stores, lunch outings, vending machines, etc. A limit of $50 a day or such. You can't buy a car with it.
The NFP chip needs to be less then 4 inches from the scanning device to work; if it uses a 2-way key encryption (layered with session encryption), so it would be difficult for a 3rd party device to snoop anything useful.
It may prompt your *phone* to agree with the transaction (maybe ask for a PIN code, or a biometric scan). If the phone authenticates the transactions with your bank it would be difficult for someone to do many fraudulent transactions.
I'm trying to go more cash as it is...keep CC spending down...and really, one good hack on this thing, or a stolen phone...how much money could you potentially lose if this thing acts like a debit card and takes it straight out of your checking???
Typically these schemes require the user to actively transfer money to a contact-less payment card, either manually or by direct debit, so they are a true equivalent to cash and do not threaten your main bank balance. See for example how the Oyster travel card scheme works in London. So it would just be like withdrawing 20 credits from a bank machine with your debit card, then using it to buy something. If they allowed access to all the funds in your account (or even a set amount per day), that would be insane and a huge invitation to fraud.
As to turning it off, I imagine Apple will have a switch in settings to do so, and you'd have to set up the account in the first place with your details and load it with money (probably a small amount).
"Near-field" isn't the issue. It's that Apple wants to be a payment processor, handling payments through iTunes and skimming off part of the transaction.
We need a crackdown on payment systems run by non-banks. PayPal is generally agreed to be terrible at handling problems and acts irresponsibly with the money of others. Most of PayPal's competitors are worse. Payment systems need to be run only by companies subject to regulation as banks.
The Japanese have been using NFC for many years now, yes... but I can't imagine how a technology that you simply hold near something to be read, becomes more usable.
I think it just means the U.S. will finally catch up to Europe in ease of payment, I always feel sorry for cashiers overseas when I have to present my ancient mag-stripe tech for payment instead of even chip & PIN.....
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Why not wait till this is fully rolled out in plastic form, before putting it in a smartphone.
Way too late for that.
NFC and phone based payments have been huge in Japan for many years. Plastic does not let you password protect it. (Pin on the terminal maybe, but not passwords).
With NFC you will have the ability to pay with your choice of cards, or pay anonymously with only Google or Apple knowing the actual account. And your data can be heavily encrypted on your device.
It can unlock your car, or your house if you want it to.
But best of all, it shuts off when you want it to. The plastic versions in your pocket can be read by anyone with a bit of technology in the brief case. This has been demonstrated in spite of assurances that you have to nearly touch the plastic cards to the terminals to pay.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Sorry, its too late tow worry about it being only an Apple thing.
The Nexus S phone already has NFC already. Apple is definitely behind on NFC. Google already has a processing consortium set up with Barclay's and credit card clearing houses to handle the payments.
You can always turn it off and carry your less secure credit cards, or vastly less secure cash.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Less secure? Neither cash nor credit cards can be scanned without removing them from my pocket.
Both can be removed from your pocket. Once removed, cash is 100% insecure, and credit cards can be easily used until fraud/theft is discovered and the card is disabled.
And neither of them can be hacked into without my knowledge.
Cash has no need to be hacked (though it actually can, and sometimes is). And every time you hand over your credit card, you open it up to exploit.
Sure I still have to look out for skimmers and be mindful who I allow to handle them, but all in all they're a lot more secure than NFC is. Remember NFC is just an extension to RFID which is known to be riddled with security problems.
Such as? It uses public key encryption. You can't just "clone" someone's NFC phone, and start making purchases. As a phone owner, you can enable further security mechanisms, which make it far more secure than either cash or traditional credit cards.
OK, this is going to a bit of a rant. As an electrical engineer, I object to the use of "near-field" to describe this nascent technology. To an antenna engineer, near-field means something very specific, relating to the size of the antenna and the wavelength of the waves with which it operates, and generally describing other aspects of the situation as amount of wavefront curvature and the phase relationships between certain fields.
But I will concede the argument because I have lost every other attempt to avoid the subversion of technical terms by non-technical people.
Any communication engineer knows the difference between bandwidth, channel capacity, and data rate and their relationship to signal-to-noise ratio. Yet the "technical" press has conflated these concepts into one, or rather, use "bandwidth" to mean usually either channel capacity or instantaneous data rate. I once attempted to repair the Wikipedia page on Bandwidth by allowing that there are two definitions, one of which is the "new-age" version and one of which recognizes the work of Claude Shannon; my edits were quickly reversed to include only the "new-age" definition, or, as the other editors called it, the "computer science" version.
In the early 1980s, I wrote a letter to each of the three popular audio magazines of the day begging them to stop using "software" to refer to the information stored on Compact Discs which is properly called "data" or "information" or the like. I included dictionary definitions to bolster my argument. I received a polite reply from two of the three editors saying that they agreed with me but that it was too late--that train had already sailed. Oddly, nowadays that particular misuse has partially been corrected as people have come to realize that software is the stuff that makes their computers operate, while the stuff on CDs (and other media) is frequently referred to as "content."
Yup, I'm sure they'll set it up so that Joe Random can just walk by and charge you a thousand dollars without you knowing it.
After all, that's just the way Bluetooth pairing works. Isn't it?
There were a few. Really widespread. I'm afraid to walk around with a Bluetooth device. Why, you just turn one on and all of a sudden people are connecting to it all over the place.
Oh wait, no they're not.
Any NFC phone will of course ask you for confirmation before completing a payment. The protocol itself might be more or less secure, but it's no more or less problematic than a debit or credit card.