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PS3 Piracy Threats Cause Phone-Home DRM

Stoobalou writes "The last time game developer Capcom tried to impose Internet-based copy protection on one of its games, it was forced to backtrack over a storm of complaints. In that instance Final Fight: Double Impact was hobbled with a piracy-busting scheme which phoned home every time the game was booted, but Capcom forgot to mention that little nugget of information to potential purchasers — an omission which eventually led to the DRM scheme being hastily withdrawn. The company has decided not to repeat the mistake with its latest release, Bionic Commando Rearmed 2, by making it clear that the game won't work unless it gets a sign-off from the company's servers."

38 of 256 comments (clear)

  1. Not "causality" by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 4, Insightful

    PS3 Piracy Threats Cause Phone-Home DRM

    No, privacy threats plus Sony's willingness to impose phone-home DRM plus consumers' and legislators' willingness to accept DRM were all contributors.

    1. Re:Not "causality" by Zelgadiss · · Score: 2

      Well, Sony doesn't really have that strong a hand to play if you think about it.

      You either appease game publishers, or they don't develop for you. /shrug

    2. Re:Not "causality" by Zelgadiss · · Score: 2, Interesting

      He didn't copy a game though, he broke the PS3 security cum DRM system and told the whole damn world how he did it.

      Some people like the grandparent poster still think Sony removed it for no reason.
      Now why the heck would they do that, any idiot can see it will cause a major shitstorm, not to mention removing something is work their programmers have to do.

      Sony removed "Other OS" to protect their income, as well as their reputation among both game developers/publishers (for obvious reasons) and gamers (broken security system = online mulitplayer hacking).
      Pissing off a handful of homebrewers was the less of 2 evils for them.

    3. Re:Not "causality" by Skarecrow77 · · Score: 2

      you're approaching correct, but you still took a swerve off the road into the bushes of WTFsylvania.

      Geohot did manage to pass the hypervisor working through OtherOS. He then told NOBODY how he did it. He boasted that he did it, and the vector he used to get in, but no details at all for anybody to exploit his work for piracy, or even to replicate it. Sony went apeshit though and accelerated plans that were -already in motion- to remove OtherOS post haste. That lit a fire under the collective hackers of the world, which lead to the jailbreak dongle, then failoverflow's work, then geohot's release of the master key, in that order.

    4. Re:Not "causality" by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Further, Sony has already lost everyone with principles, so now they can continue to abuse their user base which will continue to suck it down gratefully. Anyone who really believes in freedom of Morality decided to refuse to give Sony any more money after the whole Betamax morality police thing. Anyone who is against Fraud chose to stop giving them money after they killed the Dreamcast by publishing specifications for the PS2 that they knew to be false. Anyone who is against having their computer infected with malware stopped giving them money after the Rootkit debacle. Anyone who loves video gaming stopped giving them money after they summoned satan all over Lik-Sang by suing them in every court in the EU for providing hardware with substantial noncommercial use; but they couldn't even afford to respond to the lawsuits so they closed their doors.

      Anyone who still gives Sony money is PART OF THE PROBLEM and every conversation you have with them about video games should begin, continue, and end with how they should stop supporting Sony. Anyone who claims to love games and gaming but still gives Sony money is a hypocrite and the enemy of all gamers.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Not "causality" by SilentStaid · · Score: 2

      I can attest to this, and can back it up with the Capcom forum for BC2. This is one of the first posts complaining about DRM usage and there are immediately people defending it implying that if you don't like it - you're a pirate.

      I think it boils down to this: The people who only have a cursory inference of what DRM is or how it would work (i.e. Joe AverageConsumer) are 'buying' what the companies are feeding them - "We're hurting because of pirates and we only do this because we have to!"

      Until we change that, nothing else will change IMHO. Below is the link to the forum...

      http://www.capcom-unity.com/bionic_commando/go/thread/view/102981/26821089/PSN_login_required&pg=last

    6. Re:Not "causality" by geekoid · · Score: 2

      I would think you can fix the Alpha Centauri issue with a shim. They're pretty easy to make these days.

      If you only game with games from companies that never do any wrong, you will never game.

      You can buy a PS3, enjoy the games, and ALSO try to get Sony to change policy.

      The world is not black and white. Never has been, never will be.

      XBox is alright. They haqve done better on the community aspect of console then SOny has. WHat I hate about the XBox is basically three things:
      1) I understand it's a tool for them to make money, but IMO the nicle and dime you far too much.
      2) You need to pay a annual fee to do almost all of the online activities.
      3) You MUST have multiple controllers to do multiplayer in your home.
      This is an issue with turn based game. For example: Carcossonne. It's a game where you draw tile and place. There is not a single conceivable reason you shouldn't be able to pass the controller around.

      Also Ticket to ride and Catan.
      I suspect it's the same with other turn based games, but those are the only ones I ahve. AS a side note, all 3 gamers where done really well.

      MS also needs to make some strives into having specific event for the less popular games so that the people who own them can find more people online to play.

      I own the WII, the PS3 and the XBox. The reason I do probably aren't the ones you think.

      SO many avenues for gaming now, as an older gamer(gaming since pong, ), I find it to be awesome. Maybe you don't really enjoy games as much as you used to?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  2. Don't give your paying customers a reason to quit by mykos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Pirates will pirate.
    Buyers will buy.
    But DRM makes buyers look into piracy.

  3. I dont think so by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The pirates will have a work around for this about a week after it comes out. It's the non-pirates that will have problems with it.

  4. Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If this scheme seems to work other games will follow - as will other publishers.

    So by avoiding buying the games you are sending a clear signal to the publisher that this is method that isn't acceptable.

    And what happens if there is a DoS attack on the servers?

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  5. Everything dies by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Even corporations.
    Let's boycott Capcom's games, Capcom's gadgets, and Capcom's websites.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    1. Re:Everything dies by Idimmu+Xul · · Score: 2

      I happen to like some of their games, thanks. More than enough to ignore this particular incident.

      What's that comment about them coming for the communists, but I wasn't a communist, then they came for my XBox but I had a PS3 and then they came for me and there was no one left to fight for me?

      --
      The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
    2. Re:Everything dies by AngryNick · · Score: 2

      Even great games suck if they stop working. But then, you'll always have a stylish $59.95 Capcom brand drink coaster for the coffee table...they can't take that away from you.

    3. Re:Everything dies by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      Yeah! All five of us should boycott! That'll show 'em.

    4. Re:Everything dies by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Insightful

      P.S.

      Another reason it's not acceptable is because I often take my console with me to hotels, whether it's the PSX, the Nintendo, or the Xbox, and often they don't provide more than one internet line (which is used for my laptop). Also the kids in my family don't have their consoles connected online.

      That means we'd all have CD/DVD games that refuse to play because they cannot "phone home" to the Game manufacturer's website to verify their validity. - This is a lousy method of copy protecting disks.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    5. Re:Everything dies by commodore64_love · · Score: 2

      >>>I happen to like some of their games, thanks. More than enough to ignore this particular incident.

      I like some of their games too, but if they succeed with the "phone home" feature on this game, soon they'll apply to all their new games, and I'll be left out (no net connection to my console). Wiser to let Capcom know we won't put-up with their crap.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    6. Re:Everything dies by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2

      So? never mind who the hell they blame, if enough people stop giving capcom money, capcom will fold.

      And then DRM from every other game company gets stronger.

      Even if boycotting them doesnt cause them to fold, i prefer the feeling of not bowing my heads to these kind of shitty DRM-laden products over just going along with the crowd.

      Those aren't your only two options. Step one is raising awareness of it. Step two is biting them where it hurts. Go look up what happened to Spore.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    7. Re:Everything dies by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2

      I just wish people would quit treating it like there's only two options.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  6. Who exactly gets hurt here? by Gaygirlie · · Score: 2

    When a pirate throws a game at their console they get: a working game, with no call-home, most likely no requirement for stable internet connection, and a hassle-free gameplay experience. A legitimate user gets: a mostly working game, with call-home, requirement for a stable internet connection, and definitely not hassle-free gameplay experience should there be issues with the connection.

    Basically, this won't affect pirates at all. There is simply nothing stopping from someone releasing a crack for this game and it'll work just as peachy as ever. It's only legitimate customers being hurt here.

    When are game companies going to learn?

  7. I just don't get it by noidentity · · Score: 2

    I have a collection of old game systems and enjoy playing them regularly. I just can't get my head around these current schemes. I am I right that it will be impossible to collect something like the PS3 and this Capcom game and play it 15 years from now, unless Capcom still has exists, the PS3 can still connect to the net, and Capcom still has their DRM servers running? It's incredible.

    1. Re:I just don't get it by bobbinspenguin · · Score: 2

      15 years from now, unless Capcom still has exists, the PS3 can still connect to the net, and Capcom still has their DRM servers running? It's incredible.

      T&Cs - "Capcom reserve the right to shutdown the servers and use them for a newer game which people are now paying for thus screwing you out of your purchased product. Tick the box and click next if you understand this or just can't be bothered reading it".

    2. Re:I just don't get it by Gaygirlie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have a collection of old game systems and enjoy playing them regularly. I just can't get my head around these current schemes. I am I right that it will be impossible to collect something like the PS3 and this Capcom game and play it 15 years from now, unless Capcom still has exists, the PS3 can still connect to the net, and Capcom still has their DRM servers running? It's incredible.

      That's the whole plan: they don't want you to be able to play it 15 years from now, they want you to keep on buying.

      As for the DRM itself: sure, they _could_ release an update a few years from now that would disable the call-home feature. But there is no guarantee that they will. And even if they did then you'd have to go to lengths to preserve a copy of that update in case you have to re-format the HDD or something because it simply won't be available on any live servers anymore after so many years.

    3. Re:I just don't get it by garynuman · · Score: 2

      Well i guess you could buy the game for the packaging, leave it unopened, and pirate a DRM free copy for its actual playability... that being said as an avid gamer I will now think twice before purchasing a capcom game. I prefer to patronize companies who at least pay passing respect to that "treat people the way you would like to be treated"

  8. Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu by Zelgadiss · · Score: 2

    No idea why publishers are so obsessed with DRM.

    So either it really does increase sales, or they are crazy.
    No one spends millions on some tech (DRM in this case) when there is no return.

    I'm not supporting this BS BTW, just wondering why.

  9. Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How can you blame these poor little companies for implementing DRM? If one person copies a game, all must suffer! If you were a legitimate buyer, you'd know that...

    Oh, and, this is all Geohot's fault, not the people implementing the DRM or removing the features to feed their paranoia! That's right. All buyers must receive defective products because some people copy games. This makes sense to those of us who don't steal profit that doesn't yet exist.

    --
    Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
  10. Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu by Jaysyn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For some reason, control is more important than profit to some companies.

    --
    There is a war going on for your mind.
  11. Apropos Title by goombah99 · · Score: 2

    Would you buy a game called Bionic Commando Rear Med? It sounds like a Hemorrhoid Medicine or Mechanized Prostate exam. I bet this is referes to the advanced rectal cancer screening practiced by Goatse. Perhaps it a deranged euphemism for some sexual assualt. perhaps the game "turd burgular 2" was taken.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  12. The PS3 is the last console by MeNeXT · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I buy. I have 2 PS3's in my home one for the kids and one for me. I game on the average 5 to 10 hours a week.

    It was fun at the beginning with OtherOS. In regards to peoples complaint about pirates and cheating, I find it's more an issue of poor development. I do not see any noticeable change. Sometimes I'm in a game of BC2 that I can't seem to hit anything even when I empty 100 rounds in the back of some unsuspecting chap. Other times it feels that every confrontation I'm in I win. This applies to almost all MP games, CoDMW, MAG and so on... It's nothing new and it has not changed much since the jailbreak.

    I bought the systems for entertainment and in most cases to clear my mind form the day to day issues. Since Sony removed the Other OS I find the PS3 more of a means of frustration than a means of entertainment. Most of the time I have under an hour to play. These constant updates take over 15 minutes to complete and won't work in the background. Once installed and rebooted you go through a 2 to 5 minute wait just to get in to load the game and view all the ads. Once you're finally in you get a no games available message. It used to happen occasionally. Since the last update it seams to happen 4 out of 5 times. I initially thought it was my cable provider until I started researching on the net.

    My PS3's are no longer entertaining for MP purposes. I'm not alone, most of my friends got fed up before me. I'm not interested in SP games with the same problems. It's time to jailbreak and pirate, in this way I will still get some entertainment from my console. All this to say I will never purchase anymore products from Sony let alone any draconian DRM laden sh1t unless the attitude changes.

    --
    DRM? No thanks, I'll just get it somewhere else...
    1. Re:The PS3 is the last console by guttentag · · Score: 2
      Let's pretend for a moment that this was about something other than video games...

      I bought a bicycle and a bicycle license to use my bicycle in the park because I love riding in the park. I only have an hour to do so a few days a week, but I find it helps me clear my mind. But some kid spray painted a bench in the park, so the park hired a guard who stops everyone who enters now and frequently asks to see their papers. While I 15 minutes for him to run a background check based on my papers, I am treated to some new billboards blocking my view of the park that were installed to raise ad revenue to offset the cost of paying the guard. Eventually the guard waves me through, but a number of the paths are closed because the park has had to shift funds from maintenance to the guard's salary, and as people stop going to the park because of this, the advertising revenue falls and the situation slowly gets worse. On top of this, the spray paint kid just jumps the fence to avoid the guard and vandalizes more benches the park can't afford to repaint. I'm considering jumping the fence myself to get more riding time in, but somehow I find that I no longer enjoy going to the park.

      Does this still sound like a person with an addiction? Would you say he's a sad little man who needs to get over his park addiction? Or would you say the people running the park need to be replaced?

  13. Re:A no go by Eraesr · · Score: 3, Informative

    Don't be fooled. Apparently only 78% of PS3 owners and 73% of XBox 360 owners have their respective consoles hooked up to Internet. Wii trails a long way behind that with 54%.

  14. Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu by Shrike82 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While I agree with the sentiment of your post, it's preaching to the converted here I think. The problem is all the people out there who buy games without really giving a crap about the important issues. Fallout 3 and New Vegas for example. Horribly buggy on the PC upon release, still crashing to desktop regularly despite a swathe of patches and no-one is really that up in arms about it (probably because it's still a good game despite the bugs). Similar case, and something on British news today - Black Ops. Released with what seems like a hastily cobbled together multiplayer framework that left a significant proportion of the player base unable to use the multiplayer aspect of the game at all, and it's still like that today. The publisher gives assurances about working with gamers to fix it, but what they'd really like is for everyone to just shut up and swallow the pill. As long as there are people out there willing to for out £40-50 on a game that's broken at release, or has intrusive DRM stuffed everywhere, this kind of behaviour and this approach to selling games will continue.

    This is why is adamantly defend Valve and their "it'll be late but by God it'll work" approach to releasing games, arguments over Steam as DRM aside.

    --
    You can advertise in this sig from as little as £99.99 a month!
  15. Re:A no go by commodore6502 · · Score: 2

    Nintendo consoles have always trended towards younger audiences, and probably ~50% of Wii owners are kids or teens who don't have permission to get online.

    I think Wii is actually the best to have online, since it has all those classic Nintendo, Super Nintendo, and N64 games. Also Sega Master System and Genesis and Commodore 64 games. It's a sweet deal. (IMHO)

    --
    Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
  16. Re:A no go by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    it will be in 3 point font in a font color that is only 2 shades lighter than the background

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  17. Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu by Kjella · · Score: 2

    You seem to think this is something that they experimentally test in a lab and determine to be true or false. Reality is that game launches are so unique depending on so many factors both internal to the game and external in the market that nobody really can measure it. The same game has never launched at the same time in the same way both with and without DRM - and if you did that'd be pointless because it would essentially be like launching without DRM.

    Publishers do things they think contribute positively into this mix. More marketing is better than less marketing, less bugs is better than more bugs but many things are unknown like if they'd gone with game play style X instead of Y. Or whether they should apply DRM and if so what kind. That is in fact just guesswork, sometimes educated guesswork and sometimes just pure belief.

    It's a little bit like your health, very complicated thing. Everybody knows some things are healthy and some things are not, but some things are more belief than anything else. For example what the best way to lose weight is, I've heard roughly as many theories as the number of people I've talked to. Same with exercise and how you should exercise. People are more acting out of belief than fact, and game publishers are just like that.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  18. Re:Don't give your paying customers a reason to qu by kelemvor4 · · Score: 2

    It would be nice if people didn't buy it and capcom got that message; however that isn't going to happen. If the game sells well, capcom will hail it as a victory and this method will spread to other games quickly. If the game doesn't sell well, capcom will likely attribute the lack of sales to things other than the DRM.

  19. Re:A no go by sqlrob · · Score: 2

    Except the games are 100% bound to the console. Console dies, and say bye bye to those games.

  20. Re:A no go by HAKdragon · · Score: 2

    Bionic Commando Rearmed 2 as well as Final Fight: Double Impact are downloadable games bought on the Playstation Network so there is no box. I think for most people who buy the game it will be a non-issue but I still think that there is no reason why game should require internet access for single player (or local multiplayer) modes.

    --
    "Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs. We have a protractor."
  21. Re:A no go by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 2

    The Gamecube controller works perfectly well for SuperNES and Nintendo 64 emulation. It's wireless and is reasonably easy on the AA batteries it consumes.

    --
    "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin