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USB Autorun Attacks Against Linux

Orome1 writes "Many people think that Linux is immune to the type of Autorun attacks that have plagued Windows systems with malware over the years. However, there have been many advances in the usability of Linux as a desktop OS — including the addition of features that can allow Autorun attacks. This Shmoocon presentation by Jon Larimer from IBM X-Force starts off with a definition of autorun vulnerabilities and some examples from Windows, then jumps straight into the Linux side of things. Larimer explains how attackers can abuse these features to gain access to a live system by using a USB flash drive. He also shows how USB as an exploitation platform can allow for easy bypass of protection mechanisms like ASLR and how these attacks can provide a level of access that other physical attack methods do not." I've attached the video if you are curious. Skip the first 2 minutes if you don't care where the lost and found is.

274 comments

  1. The price of easy and automatic by clang_jangle · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I always knew that when they made *nix idiot-proof all hell would break loose security-wise. Android has proven that really thoroughly. It's too bad, really. I had high hopes for it once. Maybe they'll get it together yet though.

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    Caveat Utilitor
    1. Re:The price of easy and automatic by HermMunster · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think negative mods would only be given for not addressing what the researcher was talking about. Android isn't using an autorun feature. In fact, he specifically states that his speech addresses only Ubuntu 10.10 and gnome (and not the other desktop managers).

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    2. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Vanderhoth · · Score: 5, Informative

      I agree with you. Although, based on what I saw in the clips I was viewing the attacks seem to be more related to fancy sloppy interfaces such as auto loading thumbnails of pictures stored on a USB drive. Not so much because *nix is idiot proof, but because there is more of a focus on making a nice looking interface instead of a secure ok looking interface.

      I could be wrong.

    3. Re:The price of easy and automatic by jd · · Score: 1

      Can't speak for others, but I understand what you mean. And, yes, the easier something is, the harder it is to maintain security. Sandboxing all autorun code might help but that would degrade the ease-of-use.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    4. Re:The price of easy and automatic by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

      Just curious here: do you run "emerge --update world" from a root crontab entry?

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    5. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's be honest here--making things secure is really hard. It's just that up to this point, Linux hasn't done much for you (I can remember just a few years ago when not even mounting a usb drive was automatic), so a)non-techies really didn't use Linux and b)you had to choose to run things, so the security experts could say that it wasn't their fault after all, since you told them to do it.

      I don't want to bash linux either--I agree that it is probably the most secure widely available operating system in existence. The more interesting question is whether these kinds of vulnerabilities can ever be resolved, or whether it is an unsolvable problem.

    6. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Sal+Zeta · · Score: 2

      Fast. Or Secure. Or Useful for the common layman.

      Pick Two.

    7. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why would anyone ever do that? after a while your system would end up completely broken

    8. Re:The price of easy and automatic by elrous0 · · Score: 2

      The harsh reality is that it's very difficult to make an OS that's both safe and popular. Make it too safe, and it's too complicated and annoying for the common user. And the only way to make it popular with the masses is to remove some of the safety features and usability roadblocks. It's a tightrope that MS and Apple have to walk every day. MS walks it by fighting each security issue that comes up individually. Apple walks it by increasingly turning towards locked-down systems.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    9. Re:The price of easy and automatic by hedwards · · Score: 1

      You mean, Fast, secure, convenient or useful for the common layman.

      Pick Two.

      The problem with autorun is that it's convenient without having any security involved. By its nature it isn't secure, and I'm not sure why it would be more secure on Linux than Windows, other than it being limited to the user's privileges and needing to be written to handle Linux. And MS has in recent releases done a lot to make it easier to run the OS without always being admin.

    10. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gentoo? hello?

    11. Re:The price of easy and automatic by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

      I've actually seen people in forums say they do this - the point was "Who do you trust"? Frankly, I find many of the more drool-proof new features in both Linux and KDE4 to be less than useless.

      When you only make computers for idiots, only idiots will have computers.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    12. Re:The price of easy and automatic by morcego · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Shoot him.

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      morcego
    13. Re:The price of easy and automatic by dpilot · · Score: 1

      From cron I run "emerge --sync' and "emerge -ptuvDN world". I'll agree, you'd have to be nuts to actually update from cron. At the very least etc-update requires personal care to function with the updates, but not hose your configuration tweaks. At worst, every now and then there's a fiasco like libexpat. Plus there are certain packages that are nearly always problematic, like major XOrg or MythTV revisions.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    14. Re:The price of easy and automatic by asvravi · · Score: 4, Informative

      User-friendly
      Secure
      Functional

      Pick any two...

    15. Re:The price of easy and automatic by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      Solaris did automount in the 90s. That didn't mean that it did the sort of stupid things that causes trouble with Microsoft products.

      The things to avoid are well understood. Anyone that ignores the past should be flogged repeatedly.

      autorun != automount

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    16. Re:The price of easy and automatic by bonch · · Score: 1

      Everything in the universe is a trade-off. Make something more popular and accessible, and you lose security and stability. Lock down the software like Apple did to retain security and stability, and you gain the wrath of the online freedom warriors.

    17. Re:The price of easy and automatic by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

      Agreed that sync and "update fetchonly" are harmless. The question is how much automation do you allow before you have to use neurons to prevent The Bad Thing from happening.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    18. Re:The price of easy and automatic by postbigbang · · Score: 2

      I hate to throw in a well-used aphorism here, but nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious. It's the imflamatory nature of the post that attracts so many hits to this.... it turns out that you can hurt almost anything thru blatant misconfiguration. The scope of the attack is comparatively tiny. And you might get all of an attack plane of a half-million users on a good day, provided they use removable storage, and they'll accept something from unvetted sources.

      Oh, wait....

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    19. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One thing that should be done with "removable media" if you are going automout it, at least do it noexec. That would stop all kinds of BS right there. You certainly still could have attacks though with image files desinged to cause buffer overflows in thumbnail browsers etc. Still it would be way better than just mounting it user.

    20. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      To be fair, this is more of a UDEV, and WM/DE problem in mainstream distro's, rather than specific Linux kernel issue itself, but I won't let the headline, article/video presentation detract from that fact.

      Case in point, I can plug infected USB drives into my Linux system all day long without issue (and I do, btw). There is no autorun, mount, and execute set up upon device identification for my system. Yes, I may be the exception rather than the rule, but it's fairly clear to me that the distro. camps, in their efforts to gain notoriety as a desktop replacement against Windows, have implemented shotty security practices to boot. True to form, they truly have provided a desktop replacement for Windows, security failures and all.

      With regard to security on Linux, you're either going to do it for them, or teach them to do it for themselves. There is no half measures in the Linux security ball game. You and I both know that because of the versatility and danger that a compromised Linux machine has.

    21. Re:The price of easy and automatic by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

      It's hard to make software idiot-proof, because idiots are so ingenius.

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    22. Re:The price of easy and automatic by ffreeloader · · Score: 1

      I think this is an overblown situation. Nautilus has settings in Preferences that run the full gamut of choices.

      1. You can have the system do nothing.
      2. You can browse the media without allowing any software to execute.
      3. You can auto run anything you insert
      4. You can have the system ask you want you want to do.
      5. You can choose what application to run upon insertion depending on the content: music, video, software, etc....

      I don't remember what the defaults were as it's been a long time since I originally built this computer, but I think it was that auto run was disabled. I run Debian so I don't know what kind of foolishness Ubuntu is doing. .

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    23. Re:The price of easy and automatic by camperdave · · Score: 2

      The problem with autorun is that it's convenient without having any security involved.

      What is it convenient for, other than as a malware vector? (Which it seems to be really good at, judging from my virus detection reports).

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    24. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      The choice I want is to be able to authorize that specific USB device to autorun from now on. I don't want all USB devices to be able to execute files, but I do want to be able to have specific one do it.

    25. Re:The price of easy and automatic by clang_jangle · · Score: 2

      I think negative mods would only be given for not addressing what the researcher was talking about. Android isn't using an autorun feature.

      You misunderstood, I never said it did. Android was cited as another example of the pitfalls of "easy and automatic".

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    26. Re:The price of easy and automatic by thetaco82 · · Score: 1

      create a udev rule

    27. Re:The price of easy and automatic by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      Just curious here: do you run "emerge --update world" from a root crontab entry?

      Yes of course, everyday right after I run "sudo rm -rf /*".

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    28. Re:The price of easy and automatic by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      1. You can have the system do nothing.

      Really, the only thing that ever should be there is this.

      As soon as you enable any automatic action, you open up a vector for this kind of attack.

      I think Microsoft did the world a huge disservice when they did this (although, in fairness, Apple could have provided us with this "innovation"), and I distinctly remember watching what happened when you put a music CD into a computer and watched it install and launch it's own annoying software -- this eventually led to the Sony Rootkit. It's a feature I've largely only ever seen abused by malicious software (malware), and malicious entities (copyright holders).

      Autorun is just a plain bad idea, in my experience. Deciding that any old piece of code which rolls by should be ran just because it's sitting in the right place is a bad idea.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    29. Re:The price of easy and automatic by dpilot · · Score: 1

      Really Gentoo is probably off-topic for any discussion of LUSER-oriented Linux, anyway. Though I've been running Gentoo for quite a few years now, I advise others against it. The people who should be running Gentoo are the ones who know enough to look beyond my advise and go into it with their eyes open.

      Far less likely to be the autorun type, though at this very moment there's quite a discussion going on about getting automount to work properly in a post-HAL era.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    30. Re:The price of easy and automatic by JustNiz · · Score: 0

      >> And MS has in recent releases done a lot to make it easier to run the OS without always being admin.

      And MS has done a lot to make it easy to RUIN the OS without being admin.

      There fixed it for ya.

    31. Re:The price of easy and automatic by owlstead · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I own an Android phone, and you won't believe what problems I had to put up with security wise! It's rather unusable!

    32. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Stellian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There is no autorun, mount, and execute set up upon device identification for my system.

      Disabling auto-mount is pointless, you will eventually mount that USB device - why else would you plug it in ? 95% of the Slashdot population will plug and mount a stick received in the mail with the caption "You need to see this".
      Before you even have the option of mounting, the attacker has an enormous attack surface, by suppling it's own USB device ID: he can exploit the drivers for any of the myriad mouses, keyboards, cameras etc. that Linux supports by default, and gain kernel access. You will simply see his custom hardware device as a defective USB stick and forget about it.
      If the USB device actually turns out to be a flash drive, it can be formated using any file system supported by Linux: ext, FAT, NTFS etc. Each of the drivers have exotic and seldom used features that can hide bugs. Sure, you can do allot by limiting idiotic features in your GUI tools, but a lot of the security is out of your hands.

    33. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Hatta · · Score: 2, Funny

      UNIX was always idiot proof. It's hard for an idiot to damage much when there's nothing to click on.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    34. Re:The price of easy and automatic by ffreeloader · · Score: 1

      I agree with you. In Nuatilus you can set it so that any software on removable media cannot be executed, and run something like Rhythmbox upon inserting a music cd. Now, I agree that may be a security hole, but it's also a pretty good option in that no software on the disk can run. It does a lot to stop malware from being executed/installed from the removable media.

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    35. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Smauler · · Score: 1

      You can't. I'm a risky user... I've been to plenty of "dodgy" sites in my time. In my entire history of PC use, mostly running win2k and Vista, 99% of the time running no antivirus, I've had one virus infection that I noticed almost immediately and cleaned with no problems. I've got no idea how people accumulate so much crud on their PC.

      I'm way from perfect, but I never, ever run anything that I don't deliberately download, and I make sure where I download from. If there's something I'm a little iffy about I'll online scan it, but I do that very rarely. It's served me well..... so far.

    36. Re:The price of easy and automatic by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      Ok, benchmark is windows 95.

      What they appear to be saying is that windows is now almost as secure, as a little less secure version of GNU/Linux.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    37. Re:The price of easy and automatic by icebike · · Score: 2, Informative

      To be fair, this is more of a UDEV, and WM/DE problem in mainstream distro's, rather than specific Linux kernel issue itself, but I won't let the headline, article/video presentation detract from that fact.

      Not even a problem Mainstream Distro problem. Its exclusive to Gnome's method of thumbnail creation on a plugged in device. He only demonstrated it on Ubuntu with Gnome, and specifically with Nautilus file manager, but its probably the fault of GVFS, Gnome's virtual file system.

      He specifically mentions that this exploit does not work with KBuntu.

      So once again Linux gets painted with a user space exploit.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    38. Re:The price of easy and automatic by blacklint · · Score: 2

      These days, autorun (at least without prompts) is a terrible idea. But back in the days when the main thing put into CD drives was pressed games with most of the content on the disk and malware was more for shits and giggles than true malicious intent, things seemed very different.

      That said, I really appreciate the "what would you like to do?" dialog, or KDE's list of recently inserted media. Yes computer, I inserted some media, i'm probably going to want to do something with it. Completely ignoring my deliberate action and doing nothing is a bad interaction.

    39. Re:The price of easy and automatic by HermMunster · · Score: 0

      The article isn't about how insecure Linux is. It's about how autorun features can be used to exploit even in Linux now that Linux's usability has gone way up, through the inclusion of features such as autorun.

      This researcher was focused specifically on Ubuntu 10.10 and Gnome with how it can be exploited by having features such as autorun, or the ability to open removable media once mounted (where previews and icons can be used as an exploit). He didn't actually say that it was being used or that it could do much to the system. His outline traced through the various source used to mount and view previews/icons. It only happens that with autorun turned on that you might be able to exploit depending on how the underlying tech is either a user program or a kernel accessible program.

      Technically, he's talking about a tiny fraction of a possibility that one might succumb to an exploit from a removable device where it autoruns or previews specially coded document types for preview.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    40. Re:The price of easy and automatic by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      UNIX was always idiot proof. It's hard for an idiot to damage much when there's nothing to click on.

      Brilliant! My new sig, thanks.

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      Caveat Utilitor
    41. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Khashishi · · Score: 2

      At least you can choose a distribution that doesn't have all sorts of security issues.

    42. Re:The price of easy and automatic by melikamp · · Score: 1

      True, but vulnerabilities can and will be patched, as long as the drivers are free. Autorun, on the other hand, is a feature for stupid, by the stupid, and there's no patch against stupidity.

    43. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oops, now watch me get modded down to hell for "trolling linux".

      Sorry, that tactic only works if you include the "I'm going to get modded down for saying this" bit in your larger post. Putting it in a reply to your own comment is just so obviously being a karma suck that it's very rarely successful.

      And, look, your original comment was actually worthy enough to rate Interesting, at least in the eyes of four individuals with mod points. No need for ex post facto karma-whoring after all.

    44. Re:The price of easy and automatic by hairyfeet · · Score: 0

      Which is why I've been saying for years Linux guys need to quit with the "Year of the Linux desktop" nonsense, because for Linux to reach that point they'll have to embrace all that they hate about Windows. You can give up CLI, home users won't touch it. Give up complexity, because home users want "clicky clicky" shiny happy GUIs. Better add in the cruft of backwards compatibility as well, as users HATE having to learn new things and will want to keep their old apps forever.

      Doesn't sound too fun, does it Linux guys? Believe methey simply have NO desire to learn and hate anything more complex than a toaster, which is why you have to have autorun like in TFA. I've had to deal with customers actually forcing me to re-enable autorun after Windows disabled it for security, as they'd rather have the risk than have to open up My Computer.

      So Linux guys, next time you think everyone should use Linux just think of some of the totally clueless Windows users you've had to deal with and then imagine having to dumb down Linux until they could use it. Scary damned thought ain't it? Hell that kind of stupidity spreads like the damned clap, to where you even get total morons in places where they shouldn't be. Tomorrow I get to go to a customer's house and have it out with the local WISP because they in their infinite wisdom say "computers shouldn't have firewalls because it "breaks the wifi".. I'm sure that after a couple of rounds of arguing with these braintrusts I've have a really nice headache. I don't even want to know how many infected machines I'm gonna have to deal with because this numbnuts are telling people to shut off Windows firewall "so they can have wifi". God save me from morons!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    45. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whoosh!

    46. Re:The price of easy and automatic by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      As a guy that deals with Windows home users all day, allow me to answer that: It takes out about 10 minutes of arguing with a customer over the phone on" how to get the CD thingie to work".

      Before autorun it would be "Okay do you see My computer on the desktop? No? Okay go to start>computer....the start button...the little round button thing in the lower left corner...no the left, that is the taskbar on the right where the clock is..okay you found the start button now go to computer..on the upper right side...no the right" Get the picture? It is so much easier to say "stick in the disc, a menu will pop up, go "clicky clicky next next next".

      Am I proud that we have to lower security in Windows? No, but after dealing with so many users that frankly couldn't find their ass with Mapquest and a GPS unit I understand, oh Lord how I understand. Sadly short of setting everyone up with thin clients (or using SteadyState, which MSFT seriously boned the pooch by getting rid of thanks to WGA BS in Win 7) to make a machine useful for the clueless, which lets face it are the ones driving sales in the first place, you have to allow stupid shit like autorun. Otherwise you get what I put up above, which is conversations I've had WAAAAY too often dealing with home users.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    47. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're not talking about *nix, we're talking about Linux. Credit where it's due.

    48. Re:The price of easy and automatic by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      Kind of a false dichotomy, there can be a different experience than windows, that`s why linux desktops often seem inspired by mac...
      Would users adopt linux if/when it becomes "easy as windows"? I think that users want to change as little as possible. They are right, it is stupid to learn new things needed to do the same stuff as before. I think exactly like that too.

      But I have been a user long enough to realize that proprietary systems means always relearning how to do same things differently, either because of upgrades or the attempts by some vendors to lock users in unique operating procedures, so that they will find the competing systems unfamiliar.
      So I chose linux and did the long term lazy thing, that is paying off very well for me.
      Example, you think ubuntu is getting too different (the lock in I was referring to earlier)? fall back on aptosid or mint or debian itself.

      Besides I think that desktop linux is already as easy as windows, or I should say with a somewhat lower number of real world annoyances (1 vs 2 glitches this weekend, for me)

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      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    49. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2

      Not even a problem Mainstream Distro problem. Its exclusive to Gnome's method of thumbnail creation on a plugged in device. He only demonstrated it on Ubuntu with Gnome, and specifically with Nautilus file manager

      ...which is, if I am up to date, one of the most popular default install of the linux world as of today. This problem IS serious. It is a Gnome/Ubuntu problem, not specifically a linux one, but downplaying its seriousness is not wise.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    50. Re:The price of easy and automatic by inode_buddha · · Score: 1

      If they don't like morons then maybe they should "clicky clicky" stop creating them. Or enabling them. FFS nobody seems to have a problem with the concept that they need to learn how to drive a car... and it sounds like either your WISP or your Windows admin is a lazy turd.

      --
      C|N>K
    51. Re:The price of easy and automatic by icebike · · Score: 2

      You're right of course, I didn't mean to suggest it be ignored. Until fixed, people should know their usb devices, and disable the thumbnail feature in Nautilus.

      He stressed throughout the entire presentation just how hard it was to pull this off, and he made use of exploits in a font management system that have since been patched. (The exploit of crashing the thumbnail generation was not sufficient to get him anywhere, he needed yet another exploit beyond that. to obtain shell access.) There are other exploits he could have used, he deliberately chose one in a library that has not been modified since the year 2000.

      And all he managed to do was to break out of a locked screen saver as the user that was last logged on. No root exploit here. No privilege elevation. He seems sharp enough that I don't doubt he could have gone the extra mile and perhaps built a more nefarious hack, but all he really did was kill a task running with the privileges of the logged in user.

      And as he stated, virtually impossible to exploit remotely even if you socially engineer someone into plugging in the thumb drive. (He needed to know key load addresses of various modules, which while statistically clustered, are not absolute).

      So that leaves having physical access to pull this off. When you have that, all bets are off.

      But you are correct, it shouldn't be ignored. Even if GVFS crashes it should not allow continued execution of random data. It needs to be fixed. And perhaps that is part of why Ubuntu is moving away from Gnome in future releases.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    52. Re:The price of easy and automatic by icebraining · · Score: 1

      How do 2, 4 and 5 open up a vector for this kind of attack? As long as no untrusted code is run automatically, it should be fine, no?

    53. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> And MS has in recent releases done a lot to make it easier to run the OS without always being admin.

      And MS has done a lot to make it easy to RUIN the OS without being admin.

      There fixed it for ya, because im trolling.

      FTFY

    54. Re:The price of easy and automatic by icebraining · · Score: 2

      Having the luser oriented Ubuntu didn't stop the development of expert oriented distros. You share what makes sense, you keep to each what doesn't.

      More user share means more hardware support, more investment, etc, which some distros can use without succumbing to the fancy and useless GUIs.

    55. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Fair enough, but that won't work on Windows and I want to do it without having to go in and edit config files. Modern OSes already have mechanisms to set the default behavior of inserted media. Having that simple UI that already exists also handle authorizing specific media shouldn't be asking too much.

    56. Re:The price of easy and automatic by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      What I find funny is that, if you watch the video, what I said makes perfect sense. No whoosh. Thus the "whoosh" becomes satirically funny, in a way.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    57. Re:The price of easy and automatic by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Notice how your parent post was modded to +5, and this one was modded to -1.

      I'm really, really sick of this meme of "I'm going to say something blasphemous to Slashdot, so of course I'm about to get modded down." I tend to see plenty of intelligent comments that go against whatever you think the groupthink is, and they tend to be modded up, although there are some cases where bitching about mods causes an otherwise intelligent comment to get modded down in a twisted sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    58. Re:The price of easy and automatic by smi.james.th · · Score: 1

      So Linux guys, next time you think everyone should use Linux just think of some of the totally clueless Windows users you've had to deal with and then imagine having to dumb down Linux until they could use it. Scary damned thought ain't it?

      Might I just point out that this isn't the case at all... Most of the "dumbing down" that you get in non-technical user oriented distros like Ubuntu is just a fancy cover for what's underneath, which is mostly Debian. Even if the user can screw up his own files, the underlying security of Linux is still there, and he won't be able to mess up the OS or the other users' things. I haven't read anywhere about this exploit gaining root access the way a typical autorun exploit on Windows would.

      I used to run Slackware and Gentoo on my machines, because I loved doing things the esoteric way :-) but these days I'm running Mint on all my boxes, for reasons of time and so that my family can also use them, mostly. They work well. They're easy enough for my mother to use, and still have a shell available for me when I want to do something a bit more technical. There's no reason that Linux can't be accessible to users and offer the "Linux guys" all the geekiness that they want at the same time.

      --
      One thing I know, and that is that I am ignorant...
    59. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Jessta · · Score: 1

      By making it easy for them to understand the implications of their actions.
      Allowing hidden things to happen that cause security issues and then blaming the user is stupid.
      Too many systems expect too much of their users.

      --
      ...and that is all I have to say about that.
      http://jessta.id.au
    60. Re:The price of easy and automatic by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      Disabling auto-mount is pointless, you will eventually mount that USB device - why else would you plug it in ?

      Quite often I want to put a new filesystem on the device, do a dd backup of it, or blank it with shred. Automount is annoying in those cases.

    61. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Before you even have the option of mounting, the attacker has an enormous attack surface, by suppling it is [sic] own USB device ID

      Yes, that seems like a practical attack method :|

      So, spoofing device IDs to exploit a latent vulnerability in an obscure driver is an enormous attack surface? I'm afraid to consider the scope of a targeted attack then. And although I do consider myself among the 95% that would plug in an unknown usb stick, I don't think it would get anywhere: most obscure usb devices are not included in my own kernel compiles. Is there a method to disable module auto-loading at runtime?

    62. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Before autorun it would be "Okay do you see My computer on the desktop? No? Okay go to start>computer....the start button...the little round button thing in the lower left corner...no the left, that is the taskbar on the right where the clock is..okay you found the start button now go to computer..on the upper right side...no the right" Get the picture? It is so much easier to say "stick in the disc, a menu will pop up, go "clicky clicky next next next"

      In KDE4, it's "click on the device list next to the start menu", "click on the CD". I'd think that degrades your argument to "Windows sucks". In no way is this a sufficient reason of why we'd need autorun on Linux.

    63. Re:The price of easy and automatic by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      Autorun, run something I almost certainly did not want you to and has not been checked?

      It gets turned off on windows machines because it is insecure, then added to some Linux boxes and mostly just annoys people ....

      It is good for nothing ...?

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    64. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Peter+Mork · · Score: 1

      I find Autorun very convenient. I carry my personal files on an encrypted USB drive. When I plug the drive into a USB port, it's convenient to have the Truecrypt mounting software auto-mount the encrypted drive automatically (well, prompting for the password automatically). Navigating to Start, Computer, arrowing to the right USB drive, opening that drive, arrowing to the auto-run file, and entering a password is much more complicated than entering a password. This is an operation that I perform on average once or twice a day, but sometimes more if I'm moving from computer to computer.

    65. Re:The price of easy and automatic by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Windows Vista/7 have some protection against driver flaws. Many drivers have now been moved to user-space so even if exploited only get you user level access. Most USB stuff works that way, e.g. by calling the low level USB driver layer (which is run at system level) and then processing the data at user level. That reduced the attack surface to just the low level driver which is easier to make robust and gets regular updates via Windows Update.

      I'm sure there must be something similar for Linux. Aside from the security benefits it also means that if a driver crashes it doesn't bring the whole system down.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    66. Re:The price of easy and automatic by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      Most modern distro's won't execute that command.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    67. Re:The price of easy and automatic by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Funny how I got modded down for pointing this out, isn't it? BTW you brought up Ubuntu, which Linux guys ALWAYS trot out as "See we can do dumb!" but you are wrong, oh so wrong. You see you will need to dumb down Ubuntu another 4 or 5 levels before it will be acceptable by Joe Consumer!

      Example: Why do you think Dell throws up warnings all over the place if you try to buy a Dell by just browsing to their site? Did MSFT throw them a bribe? Nope, they have enough experience to know as I do that home users don't even know WHAT an OS is and think they are all the same. I hear a dozen times a day "it has Windows" which could mean Win95-Win 7, and the user has NO clue there are any differences! So you will either have to make installing Windows software seamless ala ReactOS or put up a dozen "This is NOT Windows!" signs when they attempt it or they will BLAME YOU.

      Another Example: As you say Ubuntu is just "debian with pretty" which makes it completely unacceptable to the vast majority of home consumers, why? Because Ubuntu is STILL CLI heavy and home users won't stand for it. Contrary to /. groupthink home users will NOT learn and have NO desire to be anything like the nerds here. Think about your last Debian Apt Upgrade..did you use CLI even once? Have you needed or used CLI in the last 6 months? If so it is NOT ready for home users end of discussion. Hell most home users won't go near Windows control panel because it is scary, you think you can drop them in a 70s era term and expect them to deal? Get real!

      So if anything your post proves my point: What Linux users consider "easy" and "noobish" is about 100 levels more difficult than a home user will deal with. If it has more complexity than your average DVD player they won't have it. I have Windows users that haven't done anything but run their programs for years between problems, you just don't get that with Linux that frankly isn't designed to be a desktop but a server anyway. I sat up a half a dozen boxes here at the shop and ran Ubuntu on them from 6-9.04 and not a single one survived the 6 month update cycle without "something" getting broke. Sound, wireless (a lot) video (everything but old Intel IGPs) always something broke and the first and only answer was "open up bash and type.

      So I hate to burst yours and the other Linux guys bubbles, but you say "open up bash and type" to a home user, you know what the very next words out of their mouth will be? "How much for Windows Home again?"

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    68. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Stellian · · Score: 1

      So, spoofing device IDs to exploit a latent vulnerability in an obscure driver is an enormous attack surface? [...] most obscure usb devices are not included in my own kernel compiles.

      The ability to exploit ALL usb drivers that ship with Linux is indeed an enormous attack surface. The attacker needs to find a single flaw in ANY of those drivers. The more obscure the driver, the higher the chance that it has security issues, and allot of obscure drivers add up to millions of obscure lines of code that were most likely not written or audited in an adversarial security mindset like other parts of the kernel.

      Sure, you can compile your own kernel, write your own kernel, or build your own relay computer out of relays and be perfectly safe.

    69. Re:The price of easy and automatic by Lord+Kestrel · · Score: 1

      Yes, you can disable auto-loading. It's actually turned off by default when you roll your kernel, it's just that all the major distros enable it.

    70. Re:The price of easy and automatic by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 1

      ...until you find the computer that does not autorun but the spyware detects truecrypt, asks you for the password, and then sends it to the spyware author ....?

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    71. Re:The price of easy and automatic by TheLink · · Score: 1

      And if one particular Linux distro somehow becomes very popular, the attacker can just target it.

      I doubt attackers are interested in the tiny numbers of people who "compile their own linux kernels" but are still too stupid to realize what the real problem is.

      --
  2. Stop copying Windows please! by JustNiz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Autorun as a concept just sucks.
    Copying whatever Windows does, warts and all, into Linux, just sucks.
    When is this insanity going to end?

    1. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by pclminion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, having a computer automatically react to a piece of media... What a stupid idea. Next thing you know they'll be using computers to compute things, and then we've just gone straight to hell.

    2. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      When is this insanity going to end?

      When developers stop listening to new users who say 'But I can do this in Windows, why can't I do it in Linux?'

    3. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't worry about it until you can access the Internet with computers.

    4. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by hedwards · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It really depends how you do it. It's one thing to go the UAC route and have the computer notify the user that something has been inserted and request authorization to do something, and quite another to make that decision for the user. Certain actions really shouldn't be allowed to be completed completely on their own, autorun is definitely a candidate for that.

    5. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use fluxbox. What insanity are you talking about?

      Oh wait, I used to use GNOME, until their interface caused windows to be switched at a very slow pace. This was caused by rendering the updated mini-window in the Alt-Tab, like Windows does. Then I switched to Fluxbox and I've been quite happy.

      Mind you, the problems described in the video deal not with the "autorun", but with vulnerabilities in the entire chain of code that is run when you plug in a USB device. From the USB device code => SCSI code => FS system code. You can compromise a system even without mounting the file system if there is holes at a low enough level.

      So yes, TFS (The Fine Summary) is not quite correct and TFV (The Fine Video) is just what happens when you plugin unknown hardware.

    6. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly.

      87.3% of all the biggest forehead-whapping Windows security bugs have come from Microsoft's (really Bill Gates) love of whizzo features that look really cool in a developers conference keynote but don't survive the first three minutes of critical thought or exposure to the real world.

      I'm specifically referring to things like where IE or Windows Explorer execute code of unknown provenance to provide "previews". Windows Explorer once had a bug which could execute arbitrary code via JPEG preview. Of course, the Outlook preview exploits are LEGION, but we can also include VB macros included in Word and Excel "data" (hahaha) files. Only a sick love of flashy features, consequences be damned can account for this.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    7. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by meerling · · Score: 1

      Why would anyone do that, my cat likes being plugged into the router...

    8. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      Autorun as a concept just sucks. Copying whatever Windows does, warts and all, into Linux, just sucks. When is this insanity going to end?

      I insert a DVD into my player - and it just plays.

      I put film into my (now older camera) and it it loaded it up for me ready to use when I shut the back

      I'm sure there are a zillion other examples of systems that just start doing things in readiness of what the would like. So why do you think the average consumer is *not* going to expect things happen automatically?

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    9. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      I insert a DVD into my player - and it just plays.

      A DVD player has one intended use and only one intended use: playing DVDs.

      I put film into my (now older camera) and it it loaded it up for me ready to use when I shut the back

      A camera has one intended use and only one intended use: taking photos.

      So why do you think the average consumer is *not* going to expect things happen automatically?

      Computers are used for many things other than playing DVDs. Why should the operating system assume that just because I put a DVD in the drive, I want to play it?

    10. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Imagix · · Score: 1

      I insert a DVD into my player - and it just plays.

      What else is it going to do, but play the DVD?

      I put film into my (now older camera) and it it loaded it up for me ready to use when I shut the back

      Again, what else are you going to do with it? Those are only two examples of nearly single-purpose items doing that single purpose. Easy to figure out what that's going to do.

    11. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by bonch · · Score: 1

      Autorun as a concept just sucks.

      Why?

      Copying whatever Windows does, warts and all, into Linux, just sucks.

      If that's true, then you'd better not use GNOME or KDE.

    12. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by phtpht · · Score: 1

      It's ok to start playing the movie or load up a slide show of the photos, because all that is just data. What's not ok and where the autorun FAILS is the possibility to execute arbitrary software without user's consent or notice. The same distinction goes with HTML vs Javascript.

    13. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Sal+Zeta · · Score: 1

      The concept is useful enough, if you realize what the user needs. They don't care about autorun per se, they care just about displaying the content from their media in less time as possible. That's their problem.

      The feature, "Autorun" in such case, is a solution. And if you try to re-implement a solution without understanding the original problem, you're doomed to make the same errors of the first implementation. By looking at the GNOME interface, despite its really good production values, it's apparently a common error.

    14. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by flight666 · · Score: 2

      But the whole point of this discussion: What if there is a bug in the library that renders that *data*? All of a sudden, your data is no longer very data-y, and much more executable-y than you might have intended.

      For reference, take a look at the (lengthy) list of bugs in any of the image processing libraries.

    15. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>When developers stop listening to new users

      great idea for getting a wider acceptance for Linux and OSS desktops.

      Congratulations, here is an intraweb for you.

    16. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Are you in the habit of inserting media you don't intend to actually access? I mean, really.

    17. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by sourcerror · · Score: 1

      You seem to fear buffer overflow. Then write it in Java. /ducks

    18. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by mlts · · Score: 2

      Not just a piece of media. A piece of untrusted media. The computer needs to consider all media as suspect and require the user to take action. It shouldn't do anything else.

      The media should be mounted, and mounted noexec, nosuid, no-nothing. That's it. No autorun, no autoplay, no autoboot, no -nothing-. The user can decide what to do with the media once it is mounted. If the user wants to run stuff from the media, they can remount it with the permissions ready.

      Of course, there is always the issue of PEBKAC errors, but short of yanking root from the user a la Android or iOS, there isn't much the OS can do here.

    19. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      Are you in the habit of inserting media you don't intend to actually access?

      Yes. The last time I remember this happening, I put a DVD in the drive because I was going to play it after I finished reading my email and the stupid operating system decided to start up the DVD player, getting in the way of what I was going at the time.

      And I'm definitely, absolutely, certainly, 100% in the habit of inserting media where I don't want to open up a browser window which runs random buggy codecs in order to display thumbnails that I 100% don't give a damn about.

    20. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by SudoGhost · · Score: 1

      But I can blame Microsoft for my computer getting viruses in Windows, why can't I do it in Linux?

    21. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Jonner · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The presenter in TFV says that because autorun always prompts the user, it's not a big security risk. He spends much more time talking about exploiting bugs in various software layers, including kernel, root-running userspace, and normal user processes.

      I'm not sure that I agree that always asking permission to autorun something is safe enough, but it is far less onerous than how Windows used to work.

    22. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i've always found autorun on windows to be annoying...ever since the win98 days...i've always disabled. i plug my drive in, i open explorer, go to my computer and just as i'm about to click on my drive...BAM! annoying autorun window pops into my way...

    23. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by ddd0004 · · Score: 1

      I agree that autorun isn't completely wrong, but as always the weakest link in the security is the user. If you were to disable autorun, you could probably accomplish a similar effect by writing "execute the file named xxxx and enter your root password" on the disc or usb drive. Most users wouldn't question it for a second.

    24. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would say that in the first case, you did intend to access said media, just maybe not right this second. Any particular reason you had autoplay enabled in the first place then? Or was this the first DVD you had ever inserted into this machine since installation? Otherwise, sounds like your problem for inserting said DVD before you needed to without disabling Autoplay.
       
      As to the second, well, again- if you don't care for the default behaviour, why have you not turned off Autoplay? In windows, it takes roughly 5 seconds to do.

    25. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by msuarezalvarez · · Score: 1

      Was that rendering of updated mini windows GNOME or compiz (which you configured to do that...)?

    26. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Jaqenn · · Score: 1

      Can we agree that when not comprimising the integrety of your system, thumbnail sized previews of a large collection of image files is a desirable feature?

      Because I like it a lot, and if you claim that it's useless for everyone, everywhere then I think that calls into question anything else you might claim.

      --
      You are awash in a sea of fiercely stated opinions. Obvious exits are: 'File->Quit', 'Reply', and 'Page Down'.
    27. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 2

      How obtuse. It's not the computer "automatically reacting" that is the problem. It's the nature of the reaction. A good/sensible reaction might be to mount the media (with the noexec option even) and open the folder in the default file manager. A bad/idiotic reaction is to blindly trust whoever created the media and automatically run anything on it that says it should be run, without first prompting the user. The presentation talks about a lot more than simple autorun, but since that's what you're talking about...

    28. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back in the day that was actually a common way to spread malware.

    29. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by bloodhawk · · Score: 1

      Technically speaking and security wise autorun as a feature that sucks balls. In user land though it is an obvious thing, "when I plug this thingie in why doesn't it just work?". Sadly there is always a tradeoff between security and usability, either we need to stomp on the bad guys harder (unlikely) or we need to make security easier for the end user that really don't want to know how everything works, they just want to plug it in and have it work.

    30. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Autorun as a concept just sucks.

      Why?

      Automatically executing code on the inserted media just because it says it should be? Without prompting the user? No, you're right! I can't think of any reason why that would ever cause problems. The Windows 7 default now is to not autorun from USB drives, and I get a prompt everytime I insert any media. Which is a good default. (Though this can be "do this every time"d with the "autorun" option).

      Copying whatever Windows does, warts and all, into Linux, just sucks.

      If that's true, then you'd better not use GNOME or KDE.

      Maybe he doesn't. Maybe he does, and realises that the faults that are copied from Windows suck. What's your point? If you wanted to argue that "copying whatever Windows does, warts and all, into Linux" does not suck, why not give some examples where copying stupid features from Windows into Linux doesn't suck?

    31. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So tell me why do you put the DVD in the drive then?

    32. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      Why? Several reasons: The biggie being that you can't always necessarily trust the media you just inserted. Without autorun at least you have the option to look at the disk before it blindly runs whatever is on there.

      Another reason is that just because I insert some media drive does not mean I always want to do the same thing to it.

      A particularly noxious example is the way Windows media player repeatedly demands you start a media library on your PC, and that its practically impossible to stop it automatically searching for and automatically adding media content anytime you plug in any kind of removeable storage.

    33. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This.

      GP's post simplifies the issue to "features = more insecurity; thus do not add features!", which is entirely missing the point of making things user-friendly to begin with.

      Thumbnail previews of images -are- extremely useful. Anybody claiming otherwise can go right ahead and grab the 1,000 images currently on my CF card and find me the one of the windmill with orange blade tips. 3... 2... 1... GO! Good luck if all you've got to go on is the filenames.
      Of course to -make- those thumbnails, pieces of code have to be executed.. and if one of those pieces of code contains an exploit that gets triggered if fed a specifically-crafted image, then yes.. that sucks. But that doesn't make the feature suck - it makes that code suck.

      The same applies to VB macros. I write VB macros for companies that work with Excel - do I like doing so? No. Do I think that a custom solution for what they're trying to do may be more appropriate? Yes. Does that mean that a macro that copies only data fields for a given week number to a sheet area, prints it, then copies a variant thereof to a new file based off of a template for their customers, prints that, and saves it to a week-numbered-filename should not be written and instead the user should do this manually because of the "ZOMG security!" aspect? Uhmm.. no.

      The answer to features exposing security issues is not to knee-jerk reaction to removal that feature, it's to address the security issues and -only- remove the feature if addressing the security issues appears to be unfeasible (the feature itself is the security issue, somehow) or is projected to take a long time during which users would still be vulnerable - with the feature re-introduced once the security issue -has- been addressed.

      Honestly, some of the comments here smell of long-time Linux users feeling saddened that the 'riff-raff' is coming into 'their' world through the user-friendly distributions.. while they should really be applauding the adoption and working with those distributions to provide both a user-friendly -and- secure environment.

    34. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You want people to use what you're offering, you listen to your userbase. You don't want to take on Windows-like functionality, or dealing with users wanting Windows-like functionality, stop trying to court Windows users.

      Or you know, you can end the madness by developers no longer propagating the abject lie that Linux is somehow magically invincible or "inherently secure" and designing their applications and functionality accordingly. Though if you don't want to take that route, you can weed out the previously mentioned users by no longer propagating the myth that Linux is user friendly or ready for the everyman's desktop.

      Yeah, yeah, flamebait, whatever.

    35. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by sjames · · Score: 1

      Automatic reaction is one thing. Automatic trust is quite another. Would you sit blindfolded on a street corner with an offer to drink anything given to you by anyone? Why would you want a computer to do that?

    36. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by pclminion · · Score: 1

      Why would you want a computer to do that?

      I wasn't aware that a computer did that. My Windows machines don't. My Linux machines don't.

      If some random Linux distro is automatically running programs from inserted media, it sounds to me like somebody had a major brain fart. "Autorun is the problem" is not my first assumption...

    37. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      React is a good thing.
      It can mount it or offer to show you the contents. Even offering to run a setup program or installer can have merit.
      But to just run a binary is foolish. The user should at least have to ok the action.
      React good. act without consent and or control is a bad thing.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    38. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Thundersnatch · · Score: 1

      Windows Explorer once had a bug which could execute arbitrary code via JPEG preview.

      Of course, most Linux and BSD systems had vulnerabilites just as bad, where a simple view or preview would trigger an exploit.

      Vulneabilities with PNG, gzip, TIFF, PDF, and many others. This happens when everything from your browser to the desktop manager's icon system uses the same vulnerable libary. OSX and Linux systems are simply a more obscure target, and not somehow immune from file parsing vulnerabilities. And before you go off on a "but the user isn't running as root" rant, recognize that Microsoft locked down user privileges by default starting with Windows NT version 4 in 1996. But only, of course, when those windows machines were part of a Windows domain...

    39. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by sjames · · Score: 2

      What do you think AUTO-RUN means then?

      Windows has toned it down a bit by now asking first before running an executable (at one time it would just run it without asking and MS swore that was just fine)

    40. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by icebike · · Score: 1

      Watched the video and you will see its not really Autorun at fault here (Because there is no "Autorun" in the microsoft sense of the word.
      Its not like its launching a program on the thumb drive.

      The exploit simply takes advantage of the rendering of thumbnails for the content of the files on the drive. He speculates that you could construct a thumb drive that has some broken files an purposely crash the thumbnailer, and then attempt to load something else after it crashes from probable locations in memory.

      Its specific to Gnome. Not generic in Linux.
      Not quite the same thing as the Microsoft autorun exploit.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    41. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      If you RTFA'd (it involves watching a long-ass video so I don't really blame you) you'd see that this doesn't actually exploit Autorun at all (although I agree it's a terrible idea). The exploit shown is a hyper-complicated hack that exploits a thumbnailer process. It is really just crazy-complicated, the guy had to disable AppArmor and ASLR (memory load location randomization) to get it to work at all. That said any of the various thumbnailer applications for various formats are potential targets.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    42. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Computer may be multi-purpose but there are many discs that are single-purpose or close to it. Like say if you insert a driver disk, it's very likely you are trying to install a driver. If you insert a game disc, it's very likely you are trying to install/play it. Yes, you might be making a CD image or whatever but you're looking very hard to find the 1% exceptions and not the 99% common use case, this is what's called a "sane default". Exceptions such as yourself probably know how to disable it, either by holding down the shift key to disable it once or to disable it permanently. From a usability perspective in a world without malicious discs, I have absolutely no problem seeing the benefits. Inserting the disc is my command to the computer, telling it twice is redundant and poor usability. You can pretend that's not a sacrifice but it is, there's not always a win-win between security and usability.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    43. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I insert a DVD into my player - and it just plays.

      There is a big difference between auto*play* and auto*run*. The former launches an existing application in order to access the data storage medium that you inserted. That is reasonable, even though it can be an attack vector if there's an exploitable bug in the player.

      Blindly executing whatever code happens to be on the inserted medium is a recipe for disaster.

    44. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trouble is a majority of modern "appliances" such as your DVD player aren't strictly single purpose devices, any longer, and as such, require more complicated firmware to address that fact. Firmware that can be compromised, rooted, misused, and otherwise, mangled.

          What else is your DVD player going to do? Well, it might just refuse to play content that has been "locked out" by way of a region switch, for example. Or more insidiously, a "parental content" tag might invoke a censoring subroutine.

          These things are already present in newer players and can be invoked by the user via menu options. Reprogramming firmware through a downloaded update can change the nature of your device in a seemingly trivial manner, as is done with console gaming platforms, for example, but with nontrivial results. Maybe you have downloaded a film, and went to the trouble to commit it to physical media. You could suddenly find that the film has been rendered unusable due to an update that requires an encryption key to activate such features. Or you might find your player has been altered such that your player won't play at all UNTIL a keycode is provided to unlock the hardware.

          The downloading vector need not be online, physical media that you purchase could insert the offending code into your player as you watch that new film. And what a nifty idea, too, just requiring you to send off a registration form to receive the unlocking code, for a nominal fee, of course. And maybe a rental agreement. And perhaps a photocopy of your picture ID, or web address/ phone number/ etc., something that can personally identify you. Hyperbole, you might argue, but is it?

          Autorun isn't the problem, here, it's merely a symptom of the real problem of a culture of feature permissiveness and lax attention to defending one's personal space. It's bad when criminals exploit this aspect of our society, doubly so when governments and corporate interests do the same in the interests of "defending intellectual property rights". Not to say there isn't a legitimate case for them doing so, but the exercise of that should be in the courtroom, not your living room. Permitting legal entities to encroach upon your personal space also makes it easier for criminals to do the same, botnets are one example of this very problem, incidentally.

          Correcting this will require a degree of educating one's self on the limits of personal space, and the limits of feature expectations. It's nice to have things that "just work", but the user MUST accept some responsibility in defining clearly just what will be acceptable, just as business and government MUST accept responsibility for respecting those definitions. It's vital that people adopt the mindset of being customers instead of consumers. If we don't, then how can those interests that serve us possibly be expected to do the same?
       

    45. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are programs for that - for example, mirage. It does one thing (preview images) and it does it well. If nautilus is trying to be an image manager and doing it poorly, I will gladly stick with my 'cp / ls / mv / rm' suite, thankyouverymuch

    46. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This article is pure FUD. Or at least the conclusion that GNU/Linux is insecure because of an auto-run feature. What made Microsoft Windows insecure was the fact it auto-executed anything without asking you if you would like to do so. Users are dumb and GNU/Linux still hands down beats Microsoft Windows in security. GNU/Linux does not execute macro scripts, applications automatically or anything else for that matter. In fact it doesn't even come with Adobe Flash enabled by default. All this means that GNU/Linux is secure. If users and informed GNU/Linux is secure. With Microsoft Windows users don't have to do anything to be infected. The other thing which makes GNU/Linux secure is that even when a vulnerability is found in a core application it is patched in a timely manor. You aren't relying users to individually apply patches to everything. Those patches are also released in a reasonable amount of time. It is easy to educate users on what to click to keep GNU/Linux secure. They only need to know ONE automatic update screen for every update. Programs don't even come on CD in GNU/Linux land. The whole suggestion that GNU/Linux is vulnerable is non-sense.

    47. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Homburg · · Score: 1

      Without autorun at least you have the option to look at the disk before it blindly runs whatever is on there.

      But this article is about exploiting bugs in the file manager, that is, the software that you would probably use to "look at the disk." It's not really about autorun at all - the same vulnerabilities would occur if you manually mounted the USB disk and manually opened the file manager.

    48. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by phtpht · · Score: 1

      But the whole point of this discussion: What if there is a bug in the library that renders that *data*? All of a sudden, your data is no longer very data-y, and much more executable-y than you might have intended.

      For reference, take a look at the (lengthy) list of bugs in any of the image processing libraries.

      Well, bugs can be fixed. But if you make it a deliberate feature to recklessly run anything that comes into your computer then there's little hope.

    49. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      to be fair, there is valid need for some features for certain level of users. If all features are useless and crap Windows would not have maintained the huge market share as it currently does. The autorun is easily disabled in Windows 7 no registry hacks required

    50. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by bit01 · · Score: 1

      to be fair, there is valid need for some features for certain level of users.

      To be fair, these features should be designed for their target audience, protecting them as appropriate. Windows just engages in a UI version of truthiness.

      If all features are useless and crap Windows would not have maintained the huge market share as it currently does.

      If the market is not well informed you mean. M$ has been manipulating people with pretty icons, and buggy function, for decades.

      ---

      Marketing talk is not just cheap, it has negative value. Free speech can be compromised just as much by too much noise as too little signal.

    51. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Computer may be multi-purpose but there are many discs that are single-purpose or close to it. Like say if you insert a driver disk, it's very likely you are trying to install a driver.

      And how does the operating system know that it's a driver disk? Does the disc have only one driver on it? Should the OS assume that you want to install all drivers, even for devices currently not attached to the system? Here's what I mostly do with driver discs: I copy them to the print server, in order to install printer drivers for multiple OSes from a single source. I absolutely, specifically do NOT want the driver installed on my own workstation, because my own machine is always the first to test the driver-delivery system of the print server.

      If you insert a game disc, it's very likely you are trying to install/play it.

      And how does the operating system know that it's a game disc? How does the OS know that I have already installed it, or that I intend to reinstall it?

      From a usability perspective in a world without malicious discs, I have absolutely no problem seeing the benefits. Inserting the disc is my command to the computer, telling it twice is redundant and poor usability.

      Yeah right. Inserting a disc is not a command, just like putting clothes in your washing machine is not a command to start washing. Putting a plate of food in your microwave oven is not a command to start heating it. And for a car analogy: sitting in the driver's seat and closing the door is not a command to start the engine, even though 99% of the time that is going to be your next action.

    52. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by renoX · · Score: 1

      The problem exist even when you don't execute code of arbitrary provenance: there have been security bugs on image decoders..
      The main issue here is that image decoders should not be able to do *anything else* than decode images (even if they have bugs), but we don't use proper architecture such as object capabilities currently(*).

      * a step in the good direction was made by Google with Chrome and its sandbox, but currently this kind of good design is the exception not the norm :-(

    53. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Did anyone have time to watch the video? It's an hour long, so I don't have time, but from the first few minutes I don't think the problem is with autorun, but with the other things that happen automatically -- generating thumbnails for media files, for instance.

    54. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides, the actual problem if you come to think about it is not autorun itself, but the fact that viewing an image file is a security risk. That should not happen, period. Any sort of "inert" data, when passed through a viewer, should not be allowed to escape its confinement and execute code at system level. I see that as a bug in the viewer application. Autorun is just a vector among many. Cut these things at the root cause.

    55. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

      Remember in 95/98 when inserting a slightly damaged disc would lock your comp for 4-5 mins while it tried to read the disc?

      --
      If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
    56. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Jonner · · Score: 1

      The video (did you even watch/listen to it?) is not FUD and thoughtless fanboyism is no more constructive than FUD. The presentation doesn't make any overall comparisons about the relative (in)security of one OS vs. any others. It simply presents and explains real risks about the way desktops systems are configured by default.

      The presenter explains how it is quite possible to gain control of a default configuration of Ubuntu (though the same techniques would probably work with other distributions of GNOME on GNU/Linux) by constructing the right file system structure on a USB mass storage device and causing it to be plugged into a running machine. The attacker need not be present if he can get someone to plug in a USB device that he provides.

      It doesn't seem that anyone is using this approach to do anything malicious right now, but that's only because Ubuntu and GNOME on GNU/Linux are not yet big enough targets, especially compared with Windows. These weaknesses in security need to be dealt with now, before Free desktop systems become big enough targets. We can learn from Microsoft's mistakes.

    57. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by tabrnaker · · Score: 1

      Ah, don't you know any better? You can't bring logic and pointing out someones ignorance to a bitch fest, it's just a party killer.

    58. Re:Stop copying Windows please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What else is it going to do, but play the DVD?

      Again, what else are you going to do with it? Those are only two examples of nearly single-purpose items doing that single purpose.

      Maybe I'll put a DVD in the drive so it's in there and ready to go *later*, when I actually want to watch the movie/access the files/whatever?

      Maybe I want to *copy* images and audio files onto another drive or device--*not* to view or listen to them in the default image viewer/media player.

      And then there are those times I just want to immediately run dd and format a drive, where the auto-mounting/autorunning is the biggest annoyance. Especially the case for removable mass-storage devices. You never know, I might even put a CD-RW or DVD+RW in there to blank, and then start fresh.

  3. They never learn by udoschuermann · · Score: 1

    Any system is vulnerable when it automatically opens or executes email attachments, automatically executes arbitrary commands delivered on a removable volume, and hides file name extensions to fool users into executing things that looked like something harmless.

    Any software vendor who thinks about adding such features should receive a savage thrashing. If they actually enable such features by default, they should be shot with prejudice.

    --
    --Udo.
    1. Re:They never learn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really don't get it.

      There is no auto-run thing in Linux. They seem to be talking about thumbnail previewers. So, a buffer overrun may execute some code. OK, that may happen with to local data files, and has nothing to do with USB, execpt for the fact that Gnome tends to open a Nautilus window for inserted USB sticks.

      Any program which loads data is sensitive to these vulnerabilities; for instance, OpenOffice importing one of such images, or Evince itself when opening a PDF file. Btw, afaik Evince cannot execute javascript embedded into PDF files, which is what you are suggesting (or at least what I understand from your complaints).

      A different thing would be if Nautilus executed any autorun.sh included in a opened directory.

      Yes, I know you have not explicitly asked the thumbnails be generated. Dolphin, for instance has previews disabled until you enable them. On the other hand, I really find useful that Nautilus generates the previews of PDF files and images.

    2. Re:They never learn by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      "Any software vendor who thinks about adding such features should receive a savage thrashing. If they actually enable such features by default, they should be shot with prejudice."

      but wouldn't shooting them with say a smith&wesson loaded with FMJ rounds do more "good"???

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  4. Thanks, Miguel by Compaqt · · Score: 2

    Anybody want to post a quick-fix to avoid turn off AutoRun in Ubuntu?

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    1. Re:Thanks, Miguel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Use Kubuntu instead.

    2. Re:Thanks, Miguel by HermMunster · · Score: 2

      On option the researcher is explains how to turn it off the option to browse media when a removable storage device is inserted. Nautilus > Edit > Preferences > Media tab

      Un-check the box for "Browse media when inserted".

      It won't be long before the code is examined and corrected.

      Keep in mind his speech is about Ubuntu 10.10 and specifically gnome running as the desktop manager.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    3. Re:Thanks, Miguel by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Win7 most definitely does some of the things mentioned in the article out of the box, such as loading resources from executables and producing thumbnails for images on USB drives.

      Its likely that you can dig out of any modern OS sandbox (Linux or otherwise) when giving them malformed input.. look at how much effort Apple has put into protecting iOS, and contrast that with how many ways that its already been rooted... and thats a completely locked down example of failure. Now imagine how badly Windows, Linux, and mainstream BSD must be at sandboxing.

      As Raymond Chen would say... this stuff is going on on the wrong side of the airtight hatchway.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    4. Re:Thanks, Miguel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...install Windows 7.

      Sweet! Is there an open source equivalent of that?

    5. Re:Thanks, Miguel by lilo_booter · · Score: 1

      Yes, but he also shows how the vulnerabilities stem from libraries which the desktop uses, and how, potentially, there are vulnerabilities all the way down, right to the kernel itself. No simple fix - short of turning off all automatic execution of processes against any unknown source (which is what I have done for quite some time - I do have thumbnail generation on local files, but after watching that, I think I'll give that the boot too :)).

    6. Re:Thanks, Miguel by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 1

      When you decompile it that's open source.

    7. Re:Thanks, Miguel by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's what I meant by "It won't be long before the code is examined and corrected."

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    8. Re:Thanks, Miguel by OFnow · · Score: 1

      "turn it off the option to browse media when a removable storage device is inserted. Nautilus > Edit > Preferences > Media tab"
      Color me ignorant or an idiot, but there seems to be no 'Nautilus' mentioned in my 10.10 Ubuntu menus.

    9. Re:Thanks, Miguel by DEmmons · · Score: 1

      he doesn't mean to choose 'Nautilus' in your Ubuntu menus, he means choose 'Edit' (and so on) in your Nautilus menu. Nautilus is your default file browser - any time you open your home folder or another you're looking at a Nautilus window. for example, click Places -> Home Folder. you're looking at your home folder, and Ubuntu doesn't bother to tell you the name of the program creating the file browser window for you, but if within that Home Folder window you click Help -> About, you'll see it. (I'm not trying to be pedantic, plenty of things were non-obvious to me when I started so I try not to assume anything is obvious to others).

    10. Re:Thanks, Miguel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're already fine if you're on Ubuntu: http://askubuntu.com/q/25880/235

  5. 'BOUT TIME WE CAN COMPETE WITH WINDOWS !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hip-hip-horray !!

    Hip-hip-horray !!

    Hip-hip-horray !!

    We are movin' on up, to the east side
    To the deluxe apartment in the skyyyy
    MoooVin' on up, yeah !!

  6. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  7. OSes should be immune from this out of the box by davidwr · · Score: 2

    Auto-run is convenient and all but systems should NOT automatically execute content from devices unless the user has specifically told them it's okay.

    A recommendation for out-of-the-box "autorun" experience:

    Query the type of the media, but do so without running any code of any type on the media.
    Authenticate the data used to determine the type of the media AND any "auto run" code typically associated with that type of media OR decide you can't authenticate it.

    Present a box to the user for "trusted" content:

    This disk claims that it contains [a program | music | video | files | whatever ]. This claim is sign by [company] and its chain-of-authentication includes [highest-level signer], a company trusted by [operating system vendor | you]. To see more details click [here].

    What do you want to do? [list of choices, including "do nothing," "open as a folder," "run the disk" (aka autorun), "play music," "play video," etc.]

    [ X ] Do the same for other media of this type signed by this signer.
    [ _ ] Do the same for other media of this type signed by any trusted signer.
    [ _ ] Do the same for other media of this type even if it is not signed.

    Present a box to the user for signed content that cannot be authenticated:

    WARNING: This disk claims that it contains [a program | music | video | files | whatever ]. This claim is sign by [company] but this signature cannot be authenticated. To see more details click [here].

    What do you want to do? [list of choices, including "do nothing," "open as a folder," "run the disk" (aka autorun), "play music," "play video," etc.]

    [ _ ] Trust this signer in the future.
    [ _ ] Do the same for other media of this type signed by this signer.
    [ _ ] Do the same for other media of this type signed by any trusted signer.
    [ _ ] Do the same for other media of this type even if it is not signed.

    Present a box to the user for unsigned content, which would typically be "unlabeled" content that the computer has to figure out for itself:

    This disk appears to contain [a program | music | video | files | whatever ].

    What do you want to do? [list of choices, including "do nothing," "open as a folder," "run the disk" (aka autorun), "play music," "play video," etc.]

    [ _ ] Do the same for other media of this type [bold]NOT recommended[/bold]

    Almost all media would be "unsigned" until a standardized method of signing is developed. Signing would typically only authenticate the type of media the disk claimed to as well as the executable code of any autoexec.exe-type program that runs if the user "runs the disk" or any media-type-specific on-disk code that runs if the user "plays the media," not the entire disk.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:OSes should be immune from this out of the box by Sal+Zeta · · Score: 1

      This is not a "out-of-the-box" experience. It's looks like more to a Tax-Form experience. You would spend more than 10 minutes trying to understand what to do.

      And the attention span of the common user is around 7 minutes. Yahoo Answer would be filled in less than half an hour with questions on how to disable it.

    2. Re:OSes should be immune from this out of the box by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      You will be out of your box after having to deal with this a few times.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    3. Re:OSes should be immune from this out of the box by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 3, Informative
      Seriously, watch the video. Autorun isn't the only problem.

      Query the type of the media, but do so without running any code of any type on the media.

      Until nefarious person inserts a USB device that, for example, exploits a vulnerability in the code that queries the media. e.g. "Hey Mr. USB drive, tell me your VendorId plz!" "exploitstring" "Oh nooooo!".

      As for the rest, it won't ever work. If anything prevents a user from quickly accessing the movie/game/pictures they think are on the DVD/CD/USB device they will either take the quickest route (enabling auto-run/auto-display of any untrusted media) or a completely random route, any of which could cause code to be executed, except the "Do Nothing" option. Not to mention the fact that autorun isn't the only problem. (Seriously, watch the video).

      The problem is that an exploit in any of the myriad layers involved in dealing with inserted media makes the system vulnerable. Before your prompt is even displayed the media would have been touched by device discovery code, file system drivers etc. and now...your new authentication code. And then, if the user selects "open as a folder", a seemingly benign action, a bug in the way the file manager handles image/PDF previews (seriously, watch the video) could result in code execution!

      While a nice idea in theory, it does little to prevent a truly determined attacker, especially if they have cooperation from all but an expert user.

    4. Re:OSes should be immune from this out of the box by PRMan · · Score: 1

      And the attention span of the common user is around 7 seconds, if that.

      FTFY

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  8. It's bad but not the end of the world. by Beelzebud · · Score: 2

    Linux servers, that run on command line don't have these issues. I know this is shocking to some people, but 99.99% of the world doesn't really give a shit about what you have on your home pc's hard drive. Security is good, but paranoia isn't. Anyone that actually cares about safeguarding their data won't be running a server with a GUI on it anyway. Even the Apache Foundation had to learn this the hard way.

    1. Re:It's bad but not the end of the world. by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I don't think that this problem is limited to servers, I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work against a person's personal computer. Which is the real problem, folks that are administrating a server shouldn't be regularly putting thumbdrives and such in and shouldn't be allowing random other people to do that either. All this really demonstrates is that a computer where people can access the console is not secure. That's been known for how many decades now?

    2. Re:It's bad but not the end of the world. by andrewd18 · · Score: 2

      99.99% of the world doesn't really give a shit about what you have on your home pc's hard drive

      Correct. Instead they care about installing a keylogger to your hard drive and then accessing your credit card information.

    3. Re:It's bad but not the end of the world. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever heard of anyone who has SSH keys to their servers stored on their desktop for convenience? Well... Then IT-staffs desktops will be of interest to anyone seeking to exploit the server.

    4. Re:It's bad but not the end of the world. by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 1

      And what of the Linux servers that are connected to over SSH using username/password authentication from those filthy little desktops used by mere mortals tasked with administering them?

    5. Re:It's bad but not the end of the world. by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Anyone that actually cares about safeguarding their data won't be running a server with a GUI on it anyway.

      I have yet to see any data stored on a server that isn't easily accessible from at least one, and usually a lot more, clients connected to that server. Have you ?

    6. Re:It's bad but not the end of the world. by Travoltus · · Score: 1

      "Linux servers, that run on command line don't have these issues. I know this is shocking to some people, but 99.99% of the world doesn't really give a shit about what you have on your home pc's hard drive."

      Look up the word "botnet".

      --
      --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
  9. Tools and Ignorance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No tool will ever be safe in the hands of somone who does not know how to use it, let alone what it actually does. I am not saying computers should be made deliberatly archane, but to much effort is put into concealing what they do and removing the need to learn anything about how to operate one. The more we enable the ignorate the poorer the outcome will be. Case in point identity theft and data leaks are a growing problem not a shrinking one dispite awareness of the risk. I would say the likely cause of that is more people are doing more with computerized information without an understanding of the conseqences.

  10. Re:Oh boy by HermMunster · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Has there really ever been anyone responsible for Linux making claims of "the year of Linux"? Or has it just been some random users that once made a reference?

    --
    You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
  11. Linux's Appeal to a Mass Market by Major_Small · · Score: 1

    It appears to me that Linux may have started thinking about focusing all it's efforts on being a more stable, secure OS, but to gain acceptance in a more mass market, they need to do things that, while they reduce security, increase their general user base. Sure, it's Linux, so you can strip it down to near nothing and have a rock-solid, dependable, secure system designed for a specific hardware setup, but if they want to stay alive, they may need to realize that they need less secure measures that allow the typical end-user to use their OS behind the scenes without any extra effort on their part. TLDR:To (Probably most) people, ease of use is more important than security, and some software developers working around Linux may be seeing that. However, being Linux, the hardcore can always build their system to be the fort Knox of data. If anything, this is a good thing IMO. Keep the security-conscious aware of issues, but let the average end-user go about their business as they will.

    1. Re:Linux's Appeal to a Mass Market by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Sure, it's Linux, so you can strip it down to near nothing and have a rock-solid, dependable, secure system designed for a specific hardware setup, but if they want to stay alive, they may need to realize that they need less secure measures that allow the typical end-user to use their OS behind the scenes without any extra effort on their part.

      Uh, define "stay alive" for me? It is an operating system. It isn't alive, so it can't stay alive. It will exist in perpetuity, or until the last person deletes their copy of the source code.

      Most of the people who maintain linux don't really need these features, and they will likely continue to maintain it indefinitely without them - unless something better comes along (and then why should we want linux maintained anyway?). Sure, it might have microscopic market share on the desktop, but I don't get paid to manage linux desktops, so that doesn't really bother me...

  12. Autorun ist stupid by gweihir · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Doesn't depend on platform. Autorun is always a huge security risk. It was invented for lazy users that do not want to know how to use their computer properly. At this time (and for the foreseeable future) this kind of laziness comes at a price and that is vulnerability to rather simple to execute attacks.

    The real benefit of Linux here is that, unlike Windows, you can get distributions that would not dream of implementing something as stupid as autorun. On others, you can reliably turn it off reliably without a cryptic adventure through the mess called the "registry". But implementing insecure features will of course make Linux insecure. Nobody sane debates that.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:Autorun ist stupid by dkleinsc · · Score: 0

      Ja, ze autorun ist stupid ze way zey currently do it.

      But methinks zey could reduce ze risk by jailing ze autorun processes, maybe in a chroot environment or virtual komputermachine.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    2. Re:Autorun ist stupid by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Wups, need to spell-check headlines as well....

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:Autorun ist stupid by bonch · · Score: 0

      Autorun is always a huge security risk. It was invented for lazy users that do not want to know how to use their computer properly.

      Ah, another Slashdotter who doesn't understand that computers are appliances to the general public. Outside the little bubble here, people use computers to get a job done, not as a hobby to learn.

    4. Re:Autorun ist stupid by gweihir · · Score: 1

      I understand this very well. We spend half a decade or more to tech our kids to read and write. If a fraction of that would be applied to computer usage, the problem would go away. There is no excuse for incompetence with regard to widely used cultural tools. If you do not have the basic skills to use that tool, stay away from it.

      Autorun is not something that can be made secure, ever. So it should not be implemented anywhere and people should learn how to do without it.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    5. Re:Autorun ist stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Who needs to edit the registry? Windows versions since 9x have GUI configuration tools to disable auto-run. Any "modern" Windows OS since 2000 has very sensical GUI tools, no cryptic adventure through obscure configuration files scattered throughout the filesystem is necessary. ;)

    6. Re:Autorun ist stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      it can be imposed through group policy, and in Windows 7 you just need to uncheck a box.. nothing cryptic about it..

    7. Re:Autorun ist stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm afraid that to Joe User, Linux config files are just as cryptic as the Windows registry.

    8. Re:Autorun ist stupid by BenFenner · · Score: 1

      I too am against auto-run as any card carrying geek would and should be. I too feel it was invented for lazy users that do not want to know how to use their computer properly. However, as I age I tend to check that feeling, and look at the opposite angle.

      What if ATM designers thought the same way?

      What if I slid my ATM card into the machine, and instead of automatically detecting the account number and pertinent info, loading up a screen asking for my PIN, and facilitating the transaction; what if I had to use a terminal/command prompt to get the machine to read the magnetic strip on the card, load the account number, send the account number off for look-up, then enter my PIN, then request account authorization, all just to get to the point where I can see my balance, make a deposit or transfer?
      Is security not important for ATM's?
      What if the ATM designers were smug Linux admins?

    9. Re:Autorun ist stupid by BenFenner · · Score: 1

      Replying to myself.

      The difference is that automatically running arbitrary or untrustworthy code is the problem.
      Making systems easier to use for the lazy, ignorant masses is not the problem.
      The latter is a worthy goal. The former is a security faux pas. They are not necessarily one in the same.

    10. Re:Autorun ist stupid by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      I was actually giving a serious response to a serious point, but your subject line inspired me to make the response in a silly way.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    11. Re:Autorun ist stupid by Spoonofdarkness · · Score: 1

      Incompetence with widely used cultural tools is our human birthright! I will continue to hit my thumb with a hammer during attempts at home repair, even now that I've had years of experience and understanding of the mechanics and proper use of said hammer.

    12. Re:Autorun ist stupid by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      > On others, you can reliably turn it off reliably without a cryptic adventure through the mess called the "registry"

      Or easily via GP.

    13. Re:Autorun ist stupid by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Actually, autorun probably could be made safe. This would involve insuring that there were no stray pointers, buffer overruns, etc., so the best way to do this is probably a virtual machine that can't write outside of a specified directory. That way the worst that could happen would be that the directory would be corrupt.

      To make it even tighter, run it in a copy of a directory, and remove the copy when the process ends.

      Mind you, I don't think most current computers are fast enough to make this approach acceptable to users, but I believe that your assertion is incorrect. Autorun *can* be made safe if you do it in a properly limited way.

      P.S.: Another way that might be almost as good would be to run the autorun processes as a special user with extremely limited rights. Again, one would want to reinitialize the locations that that user could write to when the process was complete.

      And there are probably other approaches that would work. They all severely restrict what the autorun processes can do. I can envision approaches that allow a file to be saved on process termination, but not ones that allow that file to then, itself, be run as a normal process. XPM files that were verifibly safe could, of course, be produced. I'm not as sure about SVG. Basically, the requirement seems to be that the process would need to produce a file of a type that could be verified to be safe.

      N.B.: This all requires extra computation. That doesn't mean that it's impossible.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    14. Re:Autorun ist stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linux fanboys are fucking hilarious. Cite a problem with Linux and the immediate response is to bitch about Windows. LOL. Not surprising mainstream Linux desktops are always a year away. Get a fucking clue: most people want their machines to be easy to use. That doesn't mean they have to be insecure and vulnerable to attack. If that's the only way you can understand the problem, if it has to be one extreme or the other, then thats just failed software engineering. Do better. Apple seem to be managing.

    15. Re:Autorun ist stupid by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Indeed. But quite frankly, as a German native speaker I have problems reading English with a pseudo-German accent.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    16. Re:Autorun ist stupid by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Your faith in the possibility of Software without vulnerabilities is laudable, but misplaced. All these approaches have been tried and are being tried, only to be successfully attacked again and again.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    17. Re:Autorun ist stupid by gweihir · · Score: 1

      I completely agree. Also, single-purpose devices like ATMs are a lot easier to secure in practice. Easy enough that most cannot be hacked from a card's magnetic strip. They also do not run any code from that strip.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    18. Re:Autorun ist stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, there is no such thing as autorun in Windows 7.

      And if somebody whants to use Linux, i advise avoiding Ubuntu.

    19. Re:Autorun ist stupid by HiThere · · Score: 1

      No, they aren't tried. An emulator isn't a chroot jail. And being able to emit a verifiably safe file isn't something that any common approach has used. (I won't say that no approach has ever used it...email used to be like that before they included html processing...and it *was* safe.)

      OTOH, allowing tar files to set executable status of files is a vulnerability, so they can't emit a tar file. Or an html file. Or lisp, python, ruby, etc. Not sure about C, Java, etc. Those need to be compiled before they become dangerous. Maybe require that they start with the chars *3*4*a=*, as that should be illegal in any language.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    20. Re:Autorun ist stupid by DeVilla · · Score: 1

      I consider this only one example of of Linux made worse by Ubuntu and the like in their quest to appeal to the one they condescendingly refer to as "Joe Sixpack". You can throw things like security, good design and expertise to the wind claiming the average user won't care for only so long before you realize they'll care when it's gone.

      You can still find distro's that haven't made all these mistakes, but it's getting way out of the mainstream even for Linux.

  13. The Backup Virus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remember it?

    Step 1. Insert target drive to be backed up.
    Step 2. Format wrong target
    Step 3. Backup wrong Drive
    Step 4. Realize something is wrong
    4a try to recover for 24 hours
    4b realize something is whacked bad
    Step 5. Freak out and start removing the wrong drive
    Step 6. Insert Wrong Drives again because of losing track
    Step 7. Backup Wrong Size Drive to Wrong Drive
    Step 8. Realize all original drives have been formatted several times
    Step 9. Invite friend with computers over
    Step 10. Offer a drink and tell your story while setting up
    Step 11. Format his own drive and mistakenly think you have an old backup which fails to boot
    Step 12. Get a sharpie marker and Start marking the drives up
    Step 13. Invite more friends to assist
    Step 14. Look for even more people with boot stick repair experience
    Step 15. Try a Linux Demo
    Step 16. Everyone tries and goes home with data loss and different linuxs
    Step 17. Profit at every other step.

  14. autorun is the worst thing to happen to windows by mshenrick · · Score: 1

    this is why i disable it. autorun is the worst thing to happen to windows

    1. Re:autorun is the worst thing to happen to windows by RichM · · Score: 1

      On the contrary, I would say that making the first user on a system an Administrator is Microsoft's biggest mistake.
      On a modern Windows 7 machine, it works similarly to Ubuntu or OSX where it will prompt you for for a root/admin password if it needs it.
      If most Windows users were running as a restricted account, the most damage they would do is to their profile.

  15. Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I never liked the "linux is more secure" sentimentality.

    When Linux was small, streamlined, highly optimized for specific purposes, its hard to attack.

    But as you make Linux more user friendly, feature rich, easier to use, it becomes easier to attack.

    The Linux/Open Source community just doesn't understand this. Making something with 10 features makes it easier to secure and overall more stable and better performing. Adding 100 features makes it prone to security and stability issues. About the hardest thing to do in software design is to make software "idiot" proof. I firmly believe there is a correlation between software ease of use and software complexity. As you make software easier to use, the code complexity grows exponentially. The amount of effort required to protect people from themselves is incredible. I think most Open Source projects are starting to realize that as you try to match long entrenched retail software feature for feature, you can't keep claiming you are better then the rest, eventually you become just like the rest.

    We have seen this as FireFox has evolved. Initially a small, streamlined browser, now becoming slow and bloated and prone to security issues the more features and content they add.

    Of course everybody complained about how insecure and poor performing Windows has been, but few realized that Windows is the easiest to use OS in use today and so is more feature rich and prone to problems then something like Linux, which traditionally has been a difficult OS to use by the average computer user. As companies like Ubuntu try to make Linux "nice" they are running into the same issue as Microsoft has had over the years.

    Sorry, not to start a flame war or anything, but the reality is that so many people underestimate the effort required to make something like Windows which, for better or worse, outnumbers all other OS installations on the order of thousands to 1. The world runs on Windows and I think it is short sighted and narrow-minded to assume that Linux is a 1:1 replacement to Windows. Its not. And as Linux evolves it will hit the same growing pains as Microsoft has had, people might come to realize the effort required to produce something like Windows.

    And don't suggest that features like this need to be removed, or the OS "smartened" up so it requires more intelligence to use. Realize that the single biggest reason why no other OS is actually gaining market share on Windows is just that no other OS has reached Windows on ease of use. Sure, I know, some of you are going on about how many years you used Linux or OS X, but these operating systems are, for the uninitiated, a pain in the ass to use compared to Windows.

    Bottom line is, if you want your favourite OS to stay at 5%, then suggest to remove these features. If you ever want Linux to surpass Windows then it going to have to be used by the masses, idiots and all, but you can't have it both ways. There is no way to maintain an OS as something for elite users while also making it safe and secure and easy to use for everyone else. You can't claim that Linux > Windows and then suggest it remove features Windows has had for years.

    1. Re:Of course by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      You can't claim that Linux > Windows and then suggest it remove features Windows has had for years.

      Linux has traditionally been better than Windows precisely because it didn't have features like 'autopwn' that Windows has had for years.

    2. Re:Of course by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      > But as you make Linux more user friendly, feature rich, easier to use, it becomes easier to attack.

      Of course you can point us to the inevitable viruses, worms and trojans that now afflict MacOS?

      If not then your entire rant is just thoughtless jibber jabber.

      You get system vulnerabilities from bad engineering practices, not a consumer focused mindset.

      Sure I can have it both ways. Just don't do obviously stupid stuff. Don't do things that were proven wrongful in the 80s before any of the current malware innovations were developed.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  16. Exactly by boristhespider · · Score: 1, Insightful

    MS *tried* to fight it (in part) by effectively adding a GUI sudo prompt into Windows Vista. A million people -- including Linux users posting on Slashdot -- immediately flew into fits of nerd rage about how annoying it was to have a GUI sudo prompt. (I never saw an issue with it myself, actually. Seemed no more irritating than going sudo on Linux or OSX's own authentication prompt. Unlike many, I actually really quite liked Vista, although I use OSX most of the time.) MS listened to their users and allowed them to scale it back in Windows 7, creating a million new security holes and causing a million people -- including Linux users posting on Slashdot, although not necessarily the same ones -- to complain about security flaws in Windows.

    MS have made many stupid mistakes over their history and not least due to the ancient and creaking XP (and, even worse, the immediately-owned ME) have a history of shit security. Thing is they tried to patch it up in an easy way and people bitched and puled enough that they had to make it less secure again.

    That, of course, ignores the other few million security flaws riddling the kernel. I'm just talking about the UAC here.

    1. Re:Exactly by Nimey · · Score: 4, Informative

      Did you ever use the original Vista? Ever use Ubuntu or OSX from the same time period? Vista's prompt was a lot more annoying, because for some operations it would go off several times, while for the other two it'd ask you ONCE and then get the hell out of the way. Ubuntu would even remember your sudo credentials for a few minutes so you could do other tasks as root. Really a superior design.

      They made it less annoying with SP2 and again with Win7, yes, but the original setup was shit.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    2. Re:Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh nice Ubuntu would remember the credentials: What would happen if executed malware while it remembered them?
      Win7 is less "annoying" because less applications need right escalation, as far as sudo go it is as annoying as any UAC if you're running it right.

    3. Re:Exactly by IchBinEinPenguin · · Score: 1

      Did you ever use the original Vista? Ever use Ubuntu or OSX from the same time period?

      You had me a "Vista"...

    4. Re:Exactly by Smauler · · Score: 1

      I never saw an issue with it myself, actually. Seemed no more irritating than going sudo on Linux or OSX's own authentication prompt. Unlike many, I actually really quite liked Vista, although I use OSX most of the time.

      Seconded. I see it about once a week, when running something that needs access to the internals, or installing something new. It's only annoying on a new installation, and that's understandable.

      ps. What's happened to italics :P

    5. Re:Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, Windows 7 UAC prompt is not that secure compared to Vista's. It's about *perceived* secutity.

    6. Re:Exactly by multisync · · Score: 3, Insightful

      MS *tried* to fight it (in part) by effectively adding a GUI sudo prompt into Windows Vista. A million people -- including Linux users posting on Slashdot -- immediately flew into fits of nerd rage about how annoying it was to have a GUI sudo prompt.

      If you are referring to UAC, it is hardly a "GUI sudo prompt." sudo requires you to prove that you are an authentic user by providing your password each time you open a shell to perform an administrative task (and every fifteen minutes after), and you also have to be a member of the sudo group (which only the first account created at install time is by default).

      All UAC does is basically confirm with whomever is currently sitting at the computer (authorized or not) that they initiated some arbitrary action. This is also useful, in that it prevents some web site from installing a piece of malicious software without the user's knowledge, but it is far from a "GUI sudo prompt."

      This is the reason it was met with derision by Slashdotters (and I don't recall many "fits of nerd rage," although a few might have snorted Code Red through their noses when they realized how impotent - and easily disabled - this new Microsoft "security feature" was).

      --
      I don't care why you're posting AC
    7. Re:Exactly by Sancho · · Score: 1

      I tried the RCs of Vista. Copying "protected" files to "protected" areas (including c:/, and most directories therein, including user-created ones) required three confirmations. Performing my job, I came across operations requiring 5 confirmations. Installing software which thought that it needed root could have countless prompts.

      MS fixed a lot of this just before release, but a lot of people I knew tried these early versions and wrote off the OS completely.

      A combination of the MS fixes and software becoming smarter about required permissions means that using Vista today is quite pleasant, for Windows.

    8. Re:Exactly by trickyD1ck · · Score: 4, Informative

      All UAC does is basically confirm with whomever is currently sitting at the computer (authorized or not) that they initiated some arbitrary action.

      Unless you are a limited-rights user. Then you have to enter admin credentials.

    9. Re:Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My personal opinion is having sudo remember your credentials for a window of time amounts to a window of being vulnerable. In theory, pretty much anything could use sudo without a password during that window to get to root from your account. I personally do not think it is worth it. Perhaps others do, though.

    10. Re:Exactly by melikamp · · Score: 1

      Italics are bugged, can be fixed via Stylish.

    11. Re:Exactly by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      Yes, I did, I got it before SP1. I had Ubuntu dual-booting on the machine at the same time and was running a Macbook with Tiger, followed by Leopard. (I think I had openSuSE and Arch on the machine at various points too but I defaulted to Ubuntu after a while.) I honestly didn't notice much difference (unlike the entertainment of watching mod points go up and down on that post :) ) -- at least in how annoying it was.

      W7's approach of letting you set the level of UAC introduced an extra security flaw. That was really my only point... Off-topic, and so far as I know, accurate, and backed up by a totally subjective judgement on Vista's UAC vs sudo and OSX's authentication prompt.

    12. Re:Exactly by exomondo · · Score: 1

      unlike the entertainment of watching mod points go up and down on that post :)

      Pro-Microsoft posts will lead many to brand you a 'Microsoft Astroturfer'.

      W7's approach of letting you set the level of UAC introduced an extra security flaw.

      Security is annoying and if you annoy users they'll often complain, particularly if they don't understand the reason for the security or the implications of removing it. MS (well actually all OS vendors) really need to put out a campaign that educates users in a brief - and im guessing 'entertaining' - way so they at least understand why it's annoying.

    13. Re:Exactly by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      wow. ok, i didn't encounter that. i did have two in a trot but it was rare enough that it didn't get in my way. mileages vary, of course.

    14. Re:Exactly by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      I'd say I don't know who'd do anything different but then I remember my parents' W7 machine is set up as single-user, automatic login and user has rights. So UAC is just a click-through and totally pointless.

      I've run Windows as a limited user ever since 2000. My experiences with Vista are by no means typical of normal people, and since I'm primarily a desktop user (plus latex plus intel fortran plus xming plus emacs) are also by no means typical of every Vista user...

    15. Re:Exactly by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      "Pro-Microsoft posts will lead many to brand you a 'Microsoft Astroturfer'."

      which is impressive given i also said their security record is shit and the w7 kernel is stuffed with security flaws... ah well, i've never bothered karma whoring.

      i gave up trying to educate people in security when about ten years back i tried to explain to my dad (who is far from an idiot with computers compared with others i know, who are far from idiots in real life) why it's a bad idea to run as an admin and why you log into your computer each time. he didn't understand. too stuck on the old single-user model he'd seen with the sinclair spectrum, dos 5, dos 6, windows 3.1, windows 95 and windows 98.

      i *think* he gets it by now, but his machine is still single-user admin rights. so i despair.

    16. Re:Exactly by exomondo · · Score: 1

      That's why UAC was so annoying to most users...everyone ran as Admin but had no idea that doing so had consequences, once they were forced out of that habit there was a backlash.

    17. Re:Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS *tried* to fight it (in part) by effectively adding a GUI sudo prompt into Windows Vista. A million people -- including Linux users posting on Slashdot -- immediately flew into fits of nerd rage about how annoying it was to have a GUI sudo prompt.

      In true Microsoft fashion, they implemented UAC in about as half-assed a way as it could possibly be done. And the proof is the Vista and 7 machines I have seen fucked up royally, every bit as badly as any WinXP and any of the Win9x series of operating systems before it. Microsoft hasn't learned anything, they haven't fixed anything. The latest versions of Windows are still malware-magnets, just like the older releases.

      All the latest versions of Windows do is pop up a window, which Windows users have been long trained to just click "Yes," "Okay," "I Agree," "Continue," or some other similar term for 'yes'--without even bothering to think about what they're doing and actually *reading* it. A Windows user doesn't give a fuck about a pop-up; they just want their damn program to work, and historically, that was done (even since the DOS days) by entering or clicking the opposite of "No," "Cancel," "Fail," "Abort," etc. UAC uses this same god damn principle from the DOS days: simply asking the user, "Do you want to do this? Yes/No" Well fucking duh, a user wants to do whatever it is they initiated, without any thought about it! The only difference compared to DOS is the pretty glass effects, animations, and colors, nice antialiased fonts, higher screen resolution, and the use of a mouse instead of a keyboard as the primary input device.

      Linux's sudo is a step up, because it forces the user to type a password, and can make things easy for someone who knows what they're doing. But... the password it asks is the user's own password, which is what makes me cringe. IMO, it's far better to just ask for a different (ie. root) password, which might trip up the user and make them realize, "Well you know... this must be some serious business, it's asking me for a higher level user's password instead of my own... maybe I *should* think about this a bit." Even better is when someone else sets up the machine, and the user does not *know* the root password--they ask the person who did it for help, and go on from their. Inconvenient, yeah, but you can't get much more secure than that.

      Even if Windows' UAC required a user to enter their own password, it would *still* likely save a bunch of machines from becoming nearly-unusable bots and infection zones under the weight of accumulated malware like they so easily do now (at least for a while). The reason: people are downright fucking *dumb* when it comes to computers, and being asked a password, even their own, may scare them from doing what they were trying to do. People are afraid to do the simplest things--but clicking the equivalent of "Yes, continue please!" is not one of them.

      It amazes me how some of these dumb, paranoid Windows users manage to load their computers up with so much garbage and malware or all kinds, but then I realize that all they need to do after finding their [insert unknown random game here] installer is: double-click the downloaded file, hit next, check "I agree," next, next, finish, and they're in. What's one or two more "continues" at the beginning going to do? Seriously? [Hint: FUCKING NOTHING.]

    18. Re:Exactly by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      err, you've only used uac on a machine where you're logged in as a user with admin rights, then. anyone who uses a machine with admin rights as default deserves what he gets, no matter what the os. using linux with admin rights by default is pretty fucking stupid, i'm sure you'd agree - let alone using *windows* with admin rights which is insanity.

      if you run as a user without admin rights, windows vista uac demands an admin password. how good that implementation is i don't know - no doubt there are ways around it, i don't know. but it's an authentication screen demanding sys admin rights.

      if you already run as an admin then it's your own bloody fault what happens to the computer. and unlike *nix sudo, it does demand an admin password, not your own password (at least, not hte way it's set up by default). how much a security gain potentially needing two passwords (compromised account + admin) is compared to one (compromised sudoers account) is is totally debatable, of course, but at least the way vista set uac up as default you needed an admin password if your user account wasn't admin.

      so all but two paragraphs of your rant are, to be fair, based on something that's pretty much false (unless the windows box was set up by an idiot who automatically runs as admin - which i guess even you'd admit is pretty dumb even in a linux box; and at least there the windows machine still says "do you want to do this?" while when i've run as root on a linux or osx machine they've tended to trust that i'm running as root therefore i can do quite a bit without prompting) but did let you talk about "dumb, paranoid Windows users" and bask in your self-satisfied linux glory. well done, i salute you.

    19. Re:Exactly by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      That's entirely possible. I found it no more annoying than sudo perhaps not least because I'd been an admin on Solaris and Linux boxes at work for ages, so I knew what it meant. My Dad.... no.

    20. Re:Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Admin accounts still seem to be the default.

      I agree it's stupid to run as admin, but OEMs send out machines which still seem to create admin accounts by default. I wouldn't be surprised if it is Microsoft at fault here; after all, it is their damn operating system. My memory is fuzzy but I think I recall the beta and RC of Windows 7 wanting to set up admin accounts at the beginning for the first few users, as well... just like XP. For some reason, I recall that being an annoyance that reminded me of XP: the OS insisted on creating the first user as an admin, *hiding* the "Administrator" account as usual (WHY?!?), and refusing to allow me to change my user type because OMG! There was no other user designated as Administrator! (Again, where did the "Administrator" user account go? Is it somehow not good enough? Why is it necessary to create a third, pointless, account?)

      XP did the same thing, and while I wiped Vista on this machine as soon as it was given to me, I'm pretty sure the "account" the first-run wizard created was an admin. I have not once seen Windows Vista or 7, on any computer, ask for a password after logging on--only "Continue" and "Cancel." Meaning--admin. Everyone's Vista or 7 machine was clearly set up as an Admin user, and trust me--they're all too technologically ignorant to be able to mess with "limited user" and "administrator" settings, let alone know what they mean.

      I recall Paul Thurrot, ironically, claiming that it's not such a bad thing to be running an administrative account because these "tokens" or whatever Microsoft calls them give you "elevated" administrative privileges, and you don't get them until you agree to the pop-up UAC window; until then, he claimed that even an admin user is running as a standard user without special privileges.

      Personally, I think it's all a bunch of bullshit--both Microsoft's implementation and Thurrott's usual ass-kissing of the company.

    21. Re:Exactly by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      If you are referring to UAC, it is hardly a "GUI sudo prompt." sudo requires you to prove that you are an authentic user by providing your password each time you open a shell to perform an administrative task (and every fifteen minutes after), and you also have to be a member of the sudo group (which only the first account created at install time is by default).

      Firstly, you need to be in an appropriate group to elevate via UAC. The first user created is in this group by default, just like they are in Ubuntu or OS X.

      Secondly, the difference in security between an "OK" prompt and an "enter your password" prompt, in a standard end user scenario, is essentially zero. Unless you think the average person sitting at home is likely to have an attacker break into their house just so they can get admin rights on their PC ?

      Thirdly, UAC can be trivially configured to prompt for a username and password if the security policies of the site require it.

      This is the reason it was met with derision by Slashdotters (and I don't recall many "fits of nerd rage," although a few might have snorted Code Red through their noses when they realized how impotent - and easily disabled - this new Microsoft "security feature" was).

      No, the derision was because, as usual, Slashdotters tend to have SFA knowledge about how Windows actually works.

    22. Re:Exactly by multisync · · Score: 1

      the difference in security between an "OK" prompt and an "enter your password" prompt, in a standard end user scenario, is essentially zero. Unless you think the average person sitting at home is likely to have an attacker break into their house just so they can get admin rights on their PC ?

      Computers are used in many places other than the home these days. Unless you are saying the behavior of UAC was different in Vista Home and Business editions.

      Besides, suppose you have kids at home, who will merrily click OK on any dialog that pops up? Or employees at work who will do the same?

      The difference between being prompted for a password and being prompted to click OK is far from zero.

      UAC can be trivially configured to prompt for a username and password if the security policies of the site require it.

      sudo is also configurable. I was talking about out of the box behavior. UAC - especially when first implemented in Vista - falls short of being a "GUI sudo prompt."

      --
      I don't care why you're posting AC
    23. Re:Exactly by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Computers are used in many places other than the home these days. Unless you are saying the behavior of UAC was different in Vista Home and Business editions.

      UAC behaviour is different when the machine is on a domain - it prompts for a username and password. It's also trivially configurable for those foolish enough to be in some sort of multi-machine, multi-user environment without a domain controller.

      Besides, suppose you have kids at home, who will merrily click OK on any dialog that pops up? Or employees at work who will do the same?

      Firstly, in those sorts of implicit-trust situations those people will typically know all the passwords anyway. An environment where multiple users have a single account, while "the password" remains secret, is practically unheard of (certainly I've never witnessed one during my ~20 years in the industry that was more than a few months old). Heck, environments with *multiple accounts* where most people don't know at least one other user's login and password are rare enough.

      Secondly, they should have their own user accounts without privileges to elevate, UAC should be reconfigured to prompt for a username and password. Fast user switching makes this trivial.

      The difference between being prompted for a password and being prompted to click OK is far from zero.

      Not in the most common usage scenario for an unmanaged machine (single home user and/or implicitly trusted group of users), it's not.

      sudo is also configurable.

      I am well aware sudo is configurable. I have spent many weeks of my life over the years configuring it.

      I was talking about out of the box behavior. UAC - especially when first implemented in Vista - falls short of being a "GUI sudo prompt."

      Untrue. A graphical sudo prompt is essentially exactly what UAC is, in both theory and implementation. The only difference is not prompting for a password on an unmanaged machine, which presents essentially zero additional risk due to the environment nearly all such machines are found in.

      The difference between how Windows Vista & 7, Linux (Ubuntu, et al) and OS X treat privilege escalation out of of the box, for nearly all people, is practically identical.

    24. Re:Exactly by akagawa · · Score: 1

      +1.
      My sister has been using Vista for a few years now on her Dell and I still remember trying to configure networking for her when she got the machine. We have both wired and manually-configured land-line there and she wanted the land-line (because there is a a dedicated firewall machine for this setup) so I tried to set this up for her. I won't forget the experience, a perfect example of 'ease of use' making things more _difficult_ to use. The stupid OS detected the wireless - provided by our ISP - and do you think the set-up 'helper' would allow me to switch?
      Round and round in circles. I spent a half _hour_ trying to first of all persuade it that no, I _didn't_ want to set up the wireless (again) and yes, I _did_ know what an IP address was and how to enter it, and yes, I _did_ want an interface to let me do it, etc...

      Every time I'm around and she's using the machine she's swearing at it (and frankly I don't blame her).

      At the same time, I've used both OSX (at work) and ubuntu (at home) and I've never been tempted to lose my temper at either. Ubuntu is not conceptually my ideal for a linux distro (I don't like the fact that the repository is binary - yes this is a lot more convenient but it makes it a bit more fiddly for me to build the latest packages of something) but I can't fault its ease of use.
      I also get the feeling that security has been built in beforehand rather than pasted on as an afterthought - perhaps this is part of a legacy of being brought up on the net and following a history of *nix values as demonstrated by the Debian developers, the kernel developers and even the canonical and ubuntu developers. I have both a 'traditional' root user (because that's how I'm used to using linux) account and the sudo setup with my ubuntu boxes, but I think the sudo way of enforcing superuser privileges is a decent compromise between usability and security with ubuntu and OSX to be manageable for most users who don't want a lot of hassle.

  17. Smart distros default auto-run by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Smart distros default auto-run settings to disabled.

    1. Re:Smart distros default auto-run by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      A smart distro would disable auto-run entirely and make you go through hoops to install it.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  18. more like hotplug by tthomas48 · · Score: 1

    I think people think he's referring to autorun when I believe what he's talking about is more the "hot-plugging" ability of usb. I.e. I plug in a USB device and some linux kernel device code gets run. These are standard hardware vulnerabilities, it's just that most hardware can't be plugged into a computer as easily as usb.

  19. Flawed Linux security model by Animats · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Linux still has the antiquated "user, group, everyone" security model from the 1970s. By now, we know that outside data can't be given all the privileges of the user. But Linux's legacy security model is so deeply embedded in the UNIX/Linux world that it's almost impossible to get beyond that.

    Yes, there's SELinux. But there isn't a whole distribution with a full range of applications which can run under a mandatory security model.

    1. Re:Flawed Linux security model by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      A more complicated security model is not going to prevent an environment that can trash the user's files from trashing the user's files.

      That capability is somewhat hard to avoid as you can't really do work for the user otherwise.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:Flawed Linux security model by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      But Linux's legacy security model is so deeply embedded in the UNIX/Linux world that it's almost impossible to get beyond that.

      That 'legacy security model' is there because anything more complex becomes insanely difficult to administer. Do you really think that a user who demands 'autopwn' for convenience is going to be setting up ACLs so that autopwn programs can't trash their data?

      And any useful autopwn program is likely to require at least user permissions for whatever the user plans to do with it..

    3. Re:Flawed Linux security model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, Apparmor will stop an application from running outside of certain directories with higher permissions.

    4. Re:Flawed Linux security model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly, you're not one of those who design to K.I.S.S.. There's a reason why the "antiquated" model has survived for decades, while numerous complicated security models have failed, despite constant efforts to reinvent them.

    5. Re:Flawed Linux security model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't say it's all that deeply embedded in UNIX anymore, the big Unixes all have fine-grained ACLs and RBAC these days.

    6. Re:Flawed Linux security model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not true, try out Fedora 14, they are really trying to export capabilities to applications and limit their general purpose access. They go beyond this in fact and actually allow you to submit capabilities violations as bugs to the Fedora project. They even have a cute tool that helps you try to fix capabilities' unnecessary-escalation problems. One of the devs even helped me resolve a security issue I accidentally bumped into after moving my home dir.

    7. Re:Flawed Linux security model by Kjella · · Score: 1

      You assume that every application needs to run with every permission my user has, which is obviously false. For example this browser could be locked to its own application directory and a download directory. If I want to open anything executable it could trigger some kind of "sandbox to user" prompt like sudo or UAC. Accessing any other file, like for example if I want to upload something could go through a broker process that'd be heavily audited and give the application a handle to work with, yet unable to access anything but that specific file. That way if my browser is compromised it can't do more than wipe my download directory, not my whole home directory.

      For example, a media player would work quite fine with write access to its own configuration file and nothing but read access to anything else. Or it could be given specific accesses to certain media libraries if you want to make changes from within the application. There's lots of such things that could be used to tighten security.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    8. Re:Flawed Linux security model by pseudorand · · Score: 1

      It may be antiquated, but it really does work, mostly because it's simple. True, you can't do certain fine-grained things, but try ACLs in Windows. There's all kinds of confusion with inheritance and allow/deny. And that's before you click the Advanced button to set special permissions. Granted, I'm grateful that the complexity means companies need to hire guys like me who understand it, but the simpler Unix security model I think is just more effective. Besides, most modern Linux/Unix filesystems support ACLs (without SELinux) if you need to get more complicated.

  20. If they have physical access... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then your machine is not secure. It's really that simple.

  21. OT: MS instructions for controlling in Windows by behindthewall · · Score: 4, Informative

    Maybe OT, but here's MS's information for controlling this "feature" in Windows.

    There've been various sets of instructions and registry hacks floating around, but this appears to be from the horse's mouth, relatively recently updated, and addresses some of the shortcomings of previous fixes.

    Article ID: 967715 - Last Review: September 9, 2010 - Revision: 6.2
    How to disable the Autorun functionality in Windows

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/967715

    (I'm posting this due to the confusion all the various instructions / search results can create, and because this article addresses Autoruns and so I expect a number of Windows users will be having a look out of curiosity.)

    1. Re:OT: MS instructions for controlling in Windows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While disabling the Autorun feature prevents automated media attacks, there still is the problem of fooling the user into unwittingly executing a program present on the media. The current USB autorun virus I'm fighting also hides the users documents, and puts what appears to be shortcuts to the documents on the drive. The user double-clicks what appears to be their document, and it runs the malware instead.

      Disabling the autorun feature is a good first step in preventing drive-by malware, but there's still user training to be done. Most know not to open unknown executable files, but still think a shortcut icon that looks like their document is ok. Retraining is my best hope, for now.

  22. FreeBSD is much better. by Blackout+for+Hungary · · Score: 2

    It doesn't even recognise my thumb drive, so I don't have to worry about security

  23. Superuser? by Eggbloke · · Score: 0

    I didn't watch the video but on my system to make any significant changes such as install something a program superuser access is required. Without me entering my password for a program to do something the most it can do it mess around with pretty trivial stuff.

    --
    I care not for your karma and your mod points.
    1. Re:Superuser? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a complete dipshit if you think anyone cares about installing programs or screwing with system files. Botnets run just fine from user folders, and user folders contain all the real, valuable data. Your system folders are worthless.

  24. Re:Oh boy by DrgnDancer · · Score: 2

    It was quite popular about 8-10 years ago for various media outlets to declare the "year of the Linux Desktop". I can't be arsed to look up specific examples, but they definitely existed. The irony being that Linux has improved dramatically as a desktop OS since most of those claims were widely circulated, yet no one expects it anymore. As far as I can tell, three things have ended the hype:

    1) Probably most important: People have realized that what most desktop users want is something Linux will probably never give them. Hand holding and a person to call when things break. Windows' monopoly created a huge pool of reasonably skilled amateur technicians; as well as an ecosystem of professionals ranging from the guy with fliers on the apartment bulletin board, to Best Buy's Geek Squad, to highly skilled consultants and everything in between. Apple answered that with their Genius Bar and highly rated customer service. Linux has answers to it as well, but people don't like searching web sites and such. Red Hat and a few others actually have excellent customer service and tech support, but buying from them (in small volumes, they're way cheaper than MS for high volume sales) makes Linux as expensive as Windows.

    2) A credible alternative to Windows on the Desktop emerged in OSX. Sure the hardware is kinda premium, but Apple released an easy to use Unix based OS on fairly affordable hardware. They also tied this with the launch of their retail stores and Genius Bars which provided the kind of hand holding and quick fix solutions that people are used to on Windows.

    3) Software and hardware vendors never saw value in cooperating. Next to to the lack of hand holding, this is probably the biggest issue. No thanks to the vendors, the hardware situation is much better than it used to be, but software remains a major hurdle. There are analogs and replacements for a lot of stuff, but they're rarely quite as good, always require a learning curve (on top of learning the new OS), and often times have file conversion issues. Apple got around this because they've always been Microsoft's "see, we're not a really a monopoly" hitching post so a lot of vendors (including MS themselves) have always maintained a MacOS version. Apple's recent success just means that they're making money on it.

    So now the Linux vendors concentrate on the server space (which has always been their strength), while producing steadily more polished Desktop OSes that don't get nearly the hype they used to. Meanwhile increasing numbers of tablets, smartphones, and PDAs may make the whole thing irrelevant in ten years. Not that desktop or laptop computers are going anywhere, but portable platforms will probably overtake them in usefulness for non-technical people at some point in the next decade.

    --
    I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
  25. Is there a demo online? by doperative · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Anyone care to post a demo of this Linux autorun vulnerability, one that will compromise my system by inserting a USB device, and with no user confirmation required, and doesn't prompt for the root password ..

    1. Re:Is there a demo online? by Taibhsear · · Score: 1

      And does anyone know how to shut off the autorun function in Ubuntu? Frankly I always found it to be quite annoying, this just gives me more incentive to actively disable it.

  26. Ubuntu by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

    Is anybody else annoyed by the "There is a CD with a software update in the drive" or some such when you leave the installation CD in?
    Can you please turn that off Canonical? This just begs for an exploit.

  27. flawed logic by doperative · · Score: 1

    "Linux still has the antiquated "user, group, everyone" security model from the 1970s"

    Apple OS X is based on Unix and uses the same antiquated security model as Linux :)

    1. Re:flawed logic by salesgeek · · Score: 1

      That Linux still uses Unix permissions is a testament to elegant, simple design that works. Sure, you can create more granular security models, but in the end, you really can only do three things with a file: execute read write. Having worked with VMS and NT, I always got a chuckle out of having the permissions to write to a file, but not delete it. How's that empty file doing for ya?

      --
      -- $G
  28. potential USB hot-plugging attacks on Linux by doperative · · Score: 1

    Both Slashdot and the presenter should have been more accurate in the title of the presentation. ( I mean you by CmdrTaco )

  29. Slides link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since the search results mostly go to the video, here's a blog which includes link to the slides and some discussion http://blogs.iss.net/archive/Shmoocon2011.html

  30. Easy Defense by FalleStar · · Score: 2

    I actually watched this presentation live, and it is definitely worth checking out. Although this is a good presentation, it's not exactly the hack of the century. The guy still hasn't actually found a way around AppArmor yet so this doesn't work with machines with it enabled. Furthermore, the exploit requires local access to the machine AND have a user account already logged in.

    I'm sure 99% of you already know how to do this, but if anyone is interested in protecting themselves from this type of attack regardless simply:

    1. Open a Nautilus window.
    2. Edit -> Preferences. Go to the Media tab.
    3. Uncheck the box that is labeled "Browse media when inserted".

  31. Blindly copying "features" from poorly designed sy by Larry_Dillon · · Score: 1

    I feel like they're follow Windows' tail lights over a cliff.
    This sort of mentality is ruining Linux distributions.
    If I wanted a dumbed-down buggy system, I'd use Windows.

    --
    Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
  32. What? by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

    Autorun plagues windows? Do people still move files from computer to computer via disc? By default this feature is either turned off or there's a popup asking if you want to run whatever it is that's trying to run. The last time I got a virus from autorun was probably on windows 98, maybe even 95.

    1. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, people still use lots and lots of USB flash drives to move files from computer to computer.
      And autorun was enabled by default in every version of Windows XP, which is still the most-used OS on earth.

  33. Looks like WTFV is harder than RTFA by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Almost every comment here is concentrating on "Autorun" i.e. automatic execution of scripts/executables on media and ignoring the main focus of the talk, which is about exploiting bugs in the way the file-manager handles previews of image, PDF, DVI files etc. situated on the media. More generally he talks about the possibilities of exploiting vulnerabilities in every layer involved when automatically handling inserted media, from device discovery, device drivers, file-system drivers, up to and including the file-manager.

    Unless we're all conflating "autorun" with "automount & show the media in a file-manager" now?

    1. Re:Looks like WTFV is harder than RTFA by KeithIrwin · · Score: 1

      Now look here. That video is 51 minutes long. If I spend 51 minutes watching the video before I comment, then my comment isn't going to be up at the top where the most special and important ones are. It's far more important that everyone read whatever I think about things than it is that I have something worthwhile to say. I don't have time for watching videos. Look at that first comment. Two minutes after posting. How can I compete with that if I have to watch a 51 minute video? It's not like I have the ability to stop time to watch the video. And even if I did, would the video even still work? Wouldn't the time stop probably affect the streaming video server? I don't know and just thinking about it makes my head hurt. Enough making me think, I've got commenting to do.

  34. No, it is auto-mount, auto-display, and previews by buchanmilne · · Score: 1

    While he talks about the possibility of driver vulnerabilities and means to exploit them (e.g. a USB device which claims to be a member of a class for which you have found an exploitable driver, but sends corrupt data as an exploit and payload), the exploit demonstrated works by:
    -GNOME's stupid default of auto-mounting (KDE just shows you that a device has been plugged in, you have to click it to have it mounted), even when the screensaver is locked
    -Opening a nautilus window on the mounted filesystem (again, even when the screensaver is locked)
    -Vulnerabilities in a file parser (in this case for dvi files) specific to the PDF viewer
    -The ability to kill the screensaver process quite trivially

    The thumbnailer was protected by AppArmor, and while he disabled AppArmor for the demo, reckons he could have got around AppArmor with a bit more time.

    I use KDE, because the extra "usability" of saving one click is not worth the risk imposed by auto-previewing files without me having the option to say no.

  35. Exploit was done after disabling AppArmor by buchanmilne · · Score: 2

    Linux still has the antiquated "user, group, everyone" security model from the 1970s.

    Yes, there's SELinux. But there isn't a whole distribution with a full range of applications which can run under a mandatory security model.

    Actually, the Unix model is so ingrained in all Unix platforms, that getting users who expect broken Unix off it (on Linux) is difficult, and they want the insecurity and convenience of Mac OS X.

    And, for the demo, the speaker actually had disabled AppArmor, because with it enabled, his exploit didn't work. He said he would have been able to get around AppArmor (due to one or two controls that we not enforced on the thumbnailer) with sufficient time.

  36. "Complicated" ACLs also often supported on Linux by Sits · · Score: 1

    If you look into how modern distros control device permissions (e.g. on /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p ) you may find they make use of ACLs to allow lists of users access to things (without resorting to groups). However this gets complicated fast.

    Additionally, a number of Linux security modules (SELinux, Apparmor, TOMOYO) alloow the use of common apps under a MAC model. Fedora really does run out of the box under SELinux after all.

    However, I feel that what is needed is the ability to disclaim privileges even when running as a normal user. There is experimental user namespace work on Linux that w allow unprivileged users to create namespaces which may in the future provide such an ability.

  37. Re:Oh boy by Smauler · · Score: 1

    4) Games.

    That's all I use my PC for that requires Windows. E-mail, web, I can get by with almost anything... The only reason I upgraded to Vista was games... I was perfectly happy with win2k as a desktop PC. I don't need, nor care about a polished UI, I just want it functional.

    I bought my current PC with the intention of dual booting Linux. However, I went with a fakeraid stripe setup (which resulted in Vista booting to usable in 15 seconds from bootmenu, I kept my old win2k partition), and at that time none of the Linux distros supported it without lots of tinkering. I've not got round to installing it since, since I don't need it (though I have bought another HD for it).

  38. Re:No, it is auto-mount, auto-display, and preview by tthomas48 · · Score: 1

    Ahh ok. I really hate videos as conveyors of information. I was just flipping around and found his bit about using a usb device with the kernel exploit.

    It's still more inline with the kernel driver exploit than with the way Windows autorun used to be exploitable.

  39. Re:autorun always prompts the user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    um - they have obviously never seen average user responding the program prompts - when they don't expect one they read it, when they do expect one they just press yes - sometimes you are even lucky and they understand what the unexpected prompt means

  40. Re:Blindly copying "features" from poorly designed by Beelzebud · · Score: 1

    Well that's the nice thing about Linux though. No one is forcing you to use those features.

  41. may advances by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "many advances ... including the addition of features that can allow Autorun attacks"

    This sounds like a bug, not an advance. Unless you work at Microsoft.

  42. A mindset problem by vaxius · · Score: 1

    I think this problem, and the reason why we still have auto run, is that it's assumed that having physical access to a machine is an endgame situation. With that assumed to be true, the thinking goes, why not make content open themselves for the convenience of the user? That's why auto run and other services should be disabled during deployment in a business setting.

  43. Apart from the ignoramus..... by scurvyj · · Score: 0

    ....comments, the simple truth is that autorun was a dumb idea, period.

    Also, it can only get user-space access, thats the whole point.

  44. ffs people by smash · · Score: 2

    ... it was a bad idea when microsoft did it (infuriating, even if it wasn't a security problem, even back in 1995), and now the noob idiots pushing current desktop environment development (which seems to have peaked and gone downhill in about 2004) seem determined to replicate every bad idea and fuckup of windows until linux is just as unworkable.

    People run linux because of retarded shit like that on Windows. Don't replicate the problem.

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  45. Re:Oh boy by Baseclass · · Score: 1

    I'm not so sure I trust BSD code to be secure.

    --
    ^^vv<><>BA
  46. Physical access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But haven't we, on Slashdot and elsewhere, long since held that when somebody has physical access to their target machine, it's game over, anyway?

    This seems to be a socially-engineered version of physical access: the attacker herself may not have direct physical access to the target machine, but they've used social engineering on someone who does to do what they want.

    Why is it surprising that this can indeed lead to a machine being compromised?

  47. Data isn't given the privs of the user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Data isn't given the privs of the user. It's given the permissions of the file and the APPLICATON has the privileges of the user.

    I.e. Read permission means that it can be read by the user.

    It's worse for Windows since that doesn't have UGO permissions. And getting beyond the DOS permissions is almost impossible, since that permissions paradigm of DOS is deeply embedded in the Windows/PC world.

    By the way, in what way is UGO busted? The Wheel is antiquated, but it doesn't mean the wheel is useless.

  48. Help? Linux? by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

    Can anyone good with linux, tell me if
    a) you can disabe the autorun options by default...
    b) can anyone tell me if you can have something like tripwire tell you when a side OS is runnning trying to mess with your setup?

    thank you..

  49. disabling Windows autorun by Bobtree · · Score: 1

    Here's a better one: http://windowssecrets.com/2007/11/08/02-One-quick-trick-prevents-Autorun-attacks

    Thanks to whomever originally posted this.

  50. Distro != Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This isn't a Linux vulnerability, it's a shitty distribution vulnerability. Don't use distros designed for idiots, and you won't have a problem with this.

    1. Re:Distro != Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it is a "shitty" vulnerability in Gnome, not Ubuntu...move to kde or fluxbox...
      Ubuntu has done many things that some people hate, but they did not do this one.

  51. no by poppopret · · Score: 1

    You said "large collection". Thumbnailing that is too damn slow. (and always will be, because images get bigger) I want a responsive UI.

  52. Did you watch the video? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many of the comments are just flaming ubuntu for this, but Larimer states this is a GNOME issue. He used ubuntu because it was one of the most popular distributions.
    When these bugs get fixed upstream "we'll be all right"

  53. Automount by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    This is a great reason to NOT have a auto mount enabled. Don't get me wrong I do enjoy auto-mount but at the same time it has a good deal of risk with it because you can't unintentionally mount a FS you didn't mean to.